League of Champions Week Five: Digi Vs. Kandi/id369

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



illadelph12
Week 5 Battlefield: The Savage Land (Marvel)
Duration: Monday, October 20th @ 10am thru Friday, October 24th @ 12am)

Digi Vs. Kandi/id369

Judges: Red, Symmetric Chaos, Citizen V

illadelph12

illadelph12

DigiMark007

DigiMark007

DigiMark007
Clerical note: my audio writeup isn't working well for me. If others have problems, let me know and I can try to fix it.

Fortunately, my written covers everything. So you'd really just be missing some awesome intro music.

id369
Ok I am going to give you one piece of advice before you make yourself look anymore pitiful. Its Eidolon Warwear version of War Machine. Not the suit designed by Tony Stark. Can you at least get this right?

DigiMark007
Unofficial Post:

Originally posted by id369
Ok I am going to give you one piece of advice before you make yourself look anymore pitiful. Its Eidolon Warwear version of War Machine. Not the suit designed by Tony Stark. Can you at least get this right?

Heh. Which would've been nice for you to post, ya know, ever. I only work with what I'm given. So please don't call me pitiful when you haven't even shared that info with anyone until now. I don't insult if I can avoid it, and I'd appreciate if you didn't either.

It's also why I showed a ton of ways of taking him out. The version doesn't matter.

But I'll save anything else for my next post. I don't want to start talking about strategies in a non-official post.

id369
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=492952&pagenumber=34

DigiMark007
Fair enough. Though as active as I am, I haven't been in that thread recently, and can't see everything, and will admit that I haven't had the time to read your earlier matches. Anyway, my earlier points stand. I have various tactics against any version of him, and you also could've turned that into an advantageous debating point in your first post. Instead, you're coming across as expecting me to see every post you make, even ones that aren't in our battle.

srug

id369

id369

King Kandy
Kandy Post #1

Okay, i'm back from my previous-match limbo and ready to kick ass. Like always, i'll just get right to work tearing the meat of Digi's plan apart.

Originally posted by illadelph12

LISTEN TO THE FOLLOWING LINK FIRST (have your sound on fairly high)
http://boomp3.com/listen/c1wozsot9_y/writeup4
It may not load the first time. Make sure it works, then listen prior to reading anything. Thanks. The accompanying scans/writeup is below.
I thought you said you weren't going to use audio against me... well whatever, most of it's in the writeup.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Optimus also quickly constructs some psi-blockers for us:
http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=op19un9.jpg
http://img70.imageshack.us/my.php?image=op20lp9.jpg
And then gives us an inspiring speech. Seriously.
All I see in these scans are some devices that don't do what you say.

1. Jazz built them... what proof is there that Optimus can?
2. We don't know how long it took Jazz to make them.
3. They were designed to counteract the rays from one of Dr. Doom's machines... where's the proof that they protect against actual telepathy?

Originally posted by illadelph12
Here's the armor I'm bringing with Tony:
http://img236.imageshack.us/my.php?image=op22sv0.jpg
Worn in a recent pre-CW New Avengers arc (and it's canon).
I thought crossovers were never canon, do you have any proof this one is?

Originally posted by illadelph12
Here's what Optimus can do to it during prep:
http://img70.imageshack.us/my.php?image=op23zc8.jpg
http://img236.imageshack.us/my.php?image=op24jm6.jpg
http://img236.imageshack.us/my.php?image=op25hq4.jpg
Maxes out the power to about 150%.
Once again, more scans that don't show what you're saying they show. What the scans actually show is Jazz and Bumblebee hooking up some cords and transferring their power into Iron Man. Optimus didn't do a damn thing in those scans.

Originally posted by illadelph12
So the battle starts and Tony's a freaking beast, blasting away at anything and everything that moves, with far greater power than normal.
Lacking the presence of Jazz and Bumblebee, no such thing will occur.

Originally posted by illadelph12
For those of you who missed my last match, I just built a team-busting character in Minion, now Minion Prime. See, he can assimilate the minds and souls of victims, which he then houses within himself in a single hive-mind personality, controlled by Death's Head, who is the controlling personality of the group.
I never actually saw any scans of him assimilating souls in your previous battles... I saw you assimilating memories but those aren't the same thing at all. If you have any soul-assimilating scans, please do show.

Originally posted by illadelph12
I assimilated Mary Marvel and Freddy Freeman (Cpt. Marvel Jr.), and their souls are all I need to activate their power.
Do you have any proof that the souls are all you need to call on the powers?

Originally posted by illadelph12
And I keep all of this for the entire tournament, due to the information retention rule for this tournament.
The rules say that you retain only experience, with no loopholes. Souls, well that's something that you've tangibly gained (if it turns out that you can assimilate them in the first place) and is not a form of experience.

Originally posted by illadelph12
I proved all of this with truckloads of scans on each and every point, and illadelph approved every step of it as legal. Scoob and leo, two of the best in the business, couldn't debunk it. And all 3 judges believed it completely.
You managed to fool three judges with your abilities as a tourney vet and good writer. Scoob and Leo showed how this one just doesn't work. I'll show it all over again.

Originally posted by illadelph12
If Kandy/id feel the need to challenge it, I'll be happy to post everything again and explain why I'm right.
Please do. I'll explain how you're wrong.

Originally posted by illadelph12
And I just added Osiris to the mix as well. Think of him as Black Adam Jr. Combined, I have as much or more raw power than Black Adam or Cpt. Marvel, added to the inconceivable skills of KK. Boo-yah. He alone has more power than Kandy/id's entire team.
Once again you're going on the assumption that the soul transfer can work; it won't. In this case, Black Adam will need to grant powers to minion all over again, which is outside help. Hell, receiving power from Black Adam is itself outside help.

Originally posted by illadelph12
I cave in everyone's head with this strength:
http://img53.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary1gq9.jpg
http://img388.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary2oj3.jpg
http://img388.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary3te4.jpg
http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary4we4.jpg
http://img388.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary5ga6.jpg
http://img53.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary6xj6.jpg
http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary7pp2.jpg
...actually quite a bit more strength, since that's only 1/3 of my magical power.
Yeah, nice shields we've got aren't they?

Originally posted by illadelph12
And if War Machine has shields up, I bypass them with Minion's ability to bypass tech-based shields:
http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p3zz4.jpg
http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p4su1.jpg
You may notice that he actually needed to stall for time AND have been previously hit with the shield to be able to analyze and override it. He won't have those luxuries here.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Imagine that their team is the bots opposing Optimus here:
http://img70.imageshack.us/my.php?image=op2ro3.jpg

Each one of those is Class 100 metal behemoths, attacking a single foe. Trashed in a single page.
Yeah, but Optimus is also a metal behemoth. It's no real feat to be able to beat people of your own level. I mean, if Batman beats up some thugs, it's nice but it's not really worrying to someone much stronger then a thug. Similarly until Optimus beats foes of our caliber that feat counts for nothing.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Let's start off with the worst part for them. Tony created WM. He has access codes for all of his tech. Spidey's Iron costume, various technology bits around his lab, and any armor he's ever made:
http://img126.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imwm1ls4.jpg
Buh-bye.
Tony never created the Eidolon. That's why every tactic you'ce suggested is planned for the wrong armor, and is thus the wrong plan.

id369

DigiMark007
Wow. Ok. I'll try to reply tonight. Thanks for rattling off the last 4 posts though. It's good to have a lot to respond to.

id369

DigiMark007

DigiMark007
Digi Post #4

Originally posted by King Kandy
I thought you said you weren't going to use audio against me... well whatever, most of it's in the writeup.

Had the bye week to mess around. It was purely for fun. I made a point of saying very little so that all you'd need to refer to was the written portion, since I didn't want to go back on my promise. I hope it made things easier for you.

Originally posted by King Kandy
1. Jazz built them... what proof is there that Optimus can?
2. We don't know how long it took Jazz to make them.
3. They were designed to counteract the rays from one of Dr. Doom's machines... where's the proof that they protect against actual telepathy?

The scans say they were Optimus's design, Jazz makes a couple more in seconds later in the arc, and it's a neural inhibitor capable of blocking remote influences to the brain....in a word, telepathy.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I thought crossovers were never canon, do you have any proof this one is?

I do.
http://comicnewsi.com/article.php?catid=99&itemid=9440|Stuart
An interview with the writer of the arc. Here's the important quote:
It's pre-Civil War; the story is set, in Marvel continuity, between the first and second story arcs of NEW AVENGERS.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Once again, more scans that don't show what you're saying they show. What the scans actually show is Jazz and Bumblebee hooking up some cords and transferring their power into Iron Man. Optimus didn't do a damn thing in those scans.

Look at them again. There's a line coming from Optimus as well. Nice try though. And if you say he wouldn't be able to charge it that much, that took seconds for all 3. Prime has 10 minutes. I could juice it even more if I wanted.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I never actually saw any scans of him assimilating souls in your previous battles... I saw you assimilating memories but those aren't the same thing at all. If you have any soul-assimilating scans, please do show.

Do you have any proof that the souls are all you need to call on the powers?

The rules say that you retain only experience, with no loopholes. Souls, well that's something that you've tangibly gained (if it turns out that you can assimilate them in the first place) and is not a form of experience.

You managed to fool three judges with your abilities as a tourney vet and good writer. Scoob and Leo showed how this one just doesn't work. I'll show it all over again.

Please do. I'll explain how you're wrong.

laughing out loud

Reading helps. I already explained all of this in my first post. And I didn't fool anyone, because contrary to what you might believe I don't like having to stretch the truth for a plan. I researched it meticulously, made sure every aspect of it was legal and proven, and proceeded accordingly.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Once again you're going on the assumption that the soul transfer can work; it won't. In this case, Black Adam will need to grant powers to minion all over again, which is outside help. Hell, receiving power from Black Adam is itself outside help.

So would regular Mary Marvel be illegal in this tourney? Under your flawed logic, she would.

Anyway, you're misunderstanding the nature of their power, as well as the idea of outside help. The Marvels always have access to their power. Billy, for example, can say "Shazam" any time he wants and become Cpt. Marvel. This requires no outside "granting" of the powers, because the default is that they have access to them. Outside help, then, would be if one of the outsiders took away their access to the power, which would change the nature of their power during the battle. Therefore, I have the power...to not have it would be illegal.

happy

Originally posted by King Kandy
Yeah, nice shields we've got aren't they?

Nicer than Cpt. Atom when he got dumped trucked by Mary (1/3 of my total power, btw, + KK's skill)?? Doubtful.

Originally posted by King Kandy
You may notice that he actually needed to stall for time AND have been previously hit with the shield to be able to analyze and override it. He won't have those luxuries here.

But he does have the luxury of weakness identification, KK's specialty:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/titanslsh4-20.jpg

Combined with Superman level strength:
http://img147.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=61f64_posz4.jpg

As well as their speed:
http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary22sj7.jpg
http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary23zf1.jpg

So heck, if it takes a few seconds to analyze your shields and bypass them, chances are you'll be a puddle on the ground by then anyway.

...

Btw, Judges, I show the scan of Cpt. Marvel not because I have him but because I have no other way of accurately representing the power wielded by Minion Prime. Combine the 3 magical Marvel-types with KK's skill, and very few short of Sub-Skyfather show my power correctly. So anything that Billy does is actually quite <<< than what I'm capable of.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Tony never created the Eidolon. That's why every tactic you'ce suggested is planned for the wrong armor, and is thus the wrong plan.

And is why the other 4 ways I showed of beating him are still entirely valid. I didn't plan for the wrong armor. I planned for any conceivable armor. And they need to show why EM Pulses, technopathy, magnetism, or plain beatdown (with reaction times >>> theirs, btw) wouldn't work. Scans in the writeup for reference.

...

Back to id for a second:

Originally posted by id369
I hope the explanation above clarifies, some questions. If you look at the explanation or take your time to read Spawn issues 152-161. I think you begin to clearly understand the reason as to why I killed off my team , absorbed their souls , and call them back . They are now resurrected with full human body function , but with the exceptions of now having Hell Spawn powers of their own . Spawn cant simply grant his powers like say Black Adam, but he can convert his team mates into Hell Spawns in this processes.

I won't try to mire through the plan to call it good or bad. My earlier objections apply, however. And judges should determine themselves whether or not it is to be believed.

But the important part here, imo, is that they have yet to show anything resembling enough offense to harm me, they sacrificed their powers to give Spawn some play-things, and they're all intrinsically linked to Spawn, meaning that they just gave me a metaphoric head I can cut off that will kill the rest of them. With what they've shown, this plan makes it easier for me to kill them.

Originally posted by id369
First off, I want members to know that we count with powerful force field, phasing ability, and the best damage soak in the tourney.

Idle boasts without proof. I'd also love to compare any and all scans you can muster to mine with Minion Prime. I'll win that fight.

Originally posted by id369
Technopathy

Even subatomic materials can't invade Tony's armor:
http://img364.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cantteleportseperatlyzg2.jpg

Tony's universal technopathy, not just over Stark tech
http://img389.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imex7qd7.jpg
http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imex8pd6.jpg
or accessing any energy source in the world:
http://img364.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imextremis1on0.jpg

Minion is shielded from remote influencing (first paragraph)
http://img69.imageshack.us/my.php?image=00ja5.jpg

Originally posted by id369
Empathy

See my last post. I turned this into an advantage, and at the very least negated it as a tactic. And Optimus Prime would will himself through this. Seriously, that's not even a joke. Empathically assaulting him is like saying, I dunno, that you can break Cpt. America's spirit.

Originally posted by id369
Exorcism

Yeah, Minion was immobilized for the exorcism. Care to tell me how you'll be performing this as Class-Superman+ punches and unholy amounts of energy are cascading over your team in a furious, constant assault?

Originally posted by id369
Telepathy

Minion's immunity:
http://img341.imageshack.us/my.php?image=b3zd5.jpg
And can you perform telepathy on robots? Big "if" there. And we also have the psi-blockers from prep.

More epic battles shots of Optimus, btw:
http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=op5pn0.jpg
http://img70.imageshack.us/my.php?image=op6nf5.jpg
And to be truthful, this isn't just as a joke. They have yet to show anything resembling the offensive output I've displayed with all 3 of my characters, and not nearly enough to justify hurting my team, let alone killing them.

I win. Easily, at that. They neutered their own team with a risky plan that may not even boost them much. And even if you believe it, it doesn't put them near my level.

Bye for now guys. It's been fun so far.

id369

id369

DigiMark007

id369

King Kandy
Originally posted by DigiMark007
The scans say they were Optimus's design, Jazz makes a couple more in seconds later in the arc, and it's a neural inhibitor capable of blocking remote influences to the brain....in a word, telepathy.
Sorry, I meant Ratchet designed them. Because that's what your scan says. The guy with the red hands (Ratchet) said "I designed them myself."

http://img70.imageshack.us/my.php?image=op20lp9.jpg

The text bubble is clearly coming from him, and not Optimus (who has blue hands.)

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I do.
http://comicnewsi.com/article.php?catid=99&itemid=9440|Stuart
An interview with the writer of the arc. Here's the important quote:
It's pre-Civil War; the story is set, in Marvel continuity, between the first and second story arcs of NEW AVENGERS.
I stand corrected.


Originally posted by DigiMark007
Look at them again. There's a line coming from Optimus as well. Nice try though. And if you say he wouldn't be able to charge it that much, that took seconds for all 3. Prime has 10 minutes. I could juice it even more if I wanted.
You're missing the point. They needed to transfer power from Jazz & Bumblebee. Optimus alone can't tranfer as much power (since three transformers>one)

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Reading helps. I already explained all of this in my first post. And I didn't fool anyone, because contrary to what you might believe I don't like having to stretch the truth for a plan. I researched it meticulously, made sure every aspect of it was legal and proven, and proceeded accordingly.
Very well. I just noticed the post, and in my next post I will show why it isn't actually valid.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
So would regular Mary Marvel be illegal in this tourney? Under your flawed logic, she would.
No but if you're asking Shazam to power up a new character (which is what happens when they say Shazam) then you're asking an outside entity to do something not inherent to the character, which is outside help.

It's quite similar to the Joey Stacks Nabu-Possession Dr. Fate gambit in Evangel's tourney.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Anyway, you're misunderstanding the nature of their power, as well as the idea of outside help. The Marvels always have access to their power. Billy, for example, can say "Shazam" any time he wants and become Cpt. Marvel. This requires no outside "granting" of the powers, because the default is that they have access to them. Outside help, then, would be if one of the outsiders took away their access to the power, which would change the nature of their power during the battle. Therefore, I have the power...to not have it would be illegal.
This is true, but only so long as it's Mary who's getting the power. The reason is that when a new character gains the power, you're requiring the outside entity to do something outside of the ordinary for your aid.

For example, Eternity is the embodiment of time. So while simply existing in time (Mary Marvel) isn't illegal, specifically summoning Eternity is (Shazam powering a new character.)

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Nicer than Cpt. Atom when he got dumped trucked by Mary (1/3 of my total power, btw, + KK's skill)?? Doubtful.
Did he actively have a shield up?

Originally posted by DigiMark007
But he does have the luxury of weakness identification, KK's specialty:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/titanslsh4-20.jpg
He can read weaknesses, sure, but can he detect the frequency to counter out a shield? I don't think so.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Combined with Superman level strength:
http://img147.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=61f64_posz4.jpg
You're going to have to get the shields down before that will be even mildly effective.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
So heck, if it takes a few seconds to analyze your shields and bypass them, chances are you'll be a puddle on the ground by then anyway.
How long did it take for Minion to exploit the shield weakness? I somehow doubt that the fight only took "a couple seconds."

Additionally, you never even tried to counter my other points regarding Optimus. He is just a complete dead character in this fight, and without the psi-blockers we can easily mind rape you.

DigiMark007

DigiMark007
Digi Scans-Only Post #1

Souls

Transferring a soul out of Minion into a new host body
http://img383.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh1dx2.jpg
http://img383.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh2nz5.jpg

A former soul inside Minion details his escape when Minion was temporarily destroyed
http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh17ar2.jpg
http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh18uq9.jpg

The exorcism of a soul inside of him, which would be impossible without souls:
http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=angel12rm8.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=angel13xb7.jpg
http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=angel14cv9.jpg

Minion stating that a person is inside of him now:
http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh23zw7.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dh24qd9.jpg

Technopathy

Minion analyzing and overriding an armor that was more advanced than his own
http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p3zz4.jpg
http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p4su1.jpg

Tony controlling a remote armor
http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=psionicfrequencync9.jpg

Machine control, even partially on subatomic nanobots
http://img389.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imex7qd7.jpg
http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imex8pd6.jpg

Emits an EM Pulse to shut down outside tech
http://img361.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imem1ms5.jpg
http://img398.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imem2vd7.jpg
Minion is immune to EM forces, btw.


Misc.

Minion can survive nuke-level blasts ALONE
http://img361.imageshack.us/my.php?image=h1xu6.jpg
http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=h2ap1.jpg
http://img361.imageshack.us/my.php?image=h3xa4.jpg
http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=h4tj8.jpg
http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=h5in7.jpg
And that's before the Marvel upgrade.

As for his energy blasts:
http://img102.imageshack.us/my.php?image=absorptionnovablastks3.jpg
I could redirect them. Because Nova Blast >> theirs. Or just laugh at them with Minion.

Tony's reaction times:
http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imreaction1sr7.jpg
So I do everything faster than them.

Not to mention the Marvel's speed:
http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=marvel2rg6.jpg
Which is tourney limit and a blur to human eyes.

Last page of the Mary v. Atom fight. The whole thing is posted earlier:
http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mary7pp2.jpg
And that's with 1/3 of my power.

id369

id369

id369
Cable Technopathy
We bend and twist the Cyberworld to our liking.
http://img410.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cdp2218bz8.jpg
Actual damage takes place on the real word.
http://img48.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cdp2219wd3.jpg

Cable submitted Phalanx embryo in a cationic state.
http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?...pool1216gl8.jpg

The Phalanx embryo is meshed up, and reconfigured to replace its missing t.o. mesh.
http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?...2005stregk2.jpg

We can effect human minds
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/5740/scan0023kx0.jpg

Outright defeated Black Box, in the Cyberwrold
http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?...samuraidcb7.jpg
http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?...samuraidie9.jpg

A glimpse of our hacking abilities, for recon and um black mail.
http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=page21qa3.jpg

Cable can interface with a Celestial Ship.
http://img50.imageshack.us/my.php?i...ool27p06rl9.jpg

During civil war Cable knows the identity of all renegade heros. He attained this information, in seconds. How long would it take to attain the identity of all registered superheroes?
http://img509.imageshack.us/my.php?...scan0014en0.jpg

Simulated TK

Unconscious he manages to re-establish the power grid.
http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img014tm3.jpg
http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img015tq4.jpg
http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img016kn0.jpg
http://img381.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img017ft0.jpg


Tanking, controlling, and funneling a Nuclear Explosion (Radiation, and all).
http://img403.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img009tr3.jpg

Stopping US army and personal in its tracks.
http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img008jo0.jpg



Basically re-enforces the bio.
http://img340.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ironmanv1324part22warmauy6.jpg

And Ironman manages to grasp the concept.
http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ironmanv1324part22warmabj1.jpg
http://img340.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ironmanv1324part22warmahc6.jpg

Um Cyber-Empathy?
http://img353.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ironmanv1324part22warmacn1.jpg
http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ironmanv1324part22warmath4.jpg

DigiMark007
K. That's 10 posts for you guys. I'll finish up with my arguments tomorrow.

King Kandy
Edit.

DigiMark007
Sorry Kandy. That post is going to have to be deleted. Not even including the scans-only post that id just made, you're at 10 (and 11 with yours). You guys did a good job, but id has to learn to make the most of his posts. A few of them were only a few paragraphs long.

King Kandy
I thought the team got twelve posts?

DigiMark007
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=11203628#post11203628

Rule #13. 10 posts.

DigiMark007
Digi Post #7

Originally posted by King Kandy
Sorry, I meant Ratchet designed them. Because that's what your scan says. The guy with the red hands (Ratchet) said "I designed them myself."

http://img70.imageshack.us/my.php?image=op20lp9.jpg

The text bubble is clearly coming from him, and not Optimus (who has blue hands.)

Heh. The Transformers are occasionally hard to tell apart. I'll concede this, because I sincerely thought it was Optimus. As I was telling id earlier, though, it was insurance. I still have a 100% robot against whom telepathy is worthless, Tony's armor that let's nothing in or out even on the subatomic level, and Minion who has documented telepathic immunity. The psi-blockers were intended to avoid this silly discussion. I'm sorry I tried to make them, especially since I don't need them.

Originally posted by King Kandy
You're missing the point. They needed to transfer power from Jazz & Bumblebee. Optimus alone can't tranfer as much power (since three transformers>one)

Complete speculation, and not backed by evidence. None of them were drained at all, and they did it in 2 panels mid-battle. Optimus has 10 minutes. But let's say you're right, and Optimus can only push it to may 120%. I still have a supercharged mega-armor, then Extremis.

Originally posted by King Kandy
No but if you're asking Shazam to power up a new character (which is what happens when they say Shazam) then you're asking an outside entity to do something not inherent to the character, which is outside help.

The plan has already been approved by ill. By your definition, drafting the Marvels and having them use their powers normally would be illegal, since they call power from another source. Also, it's not a new character. Mary/Freddy/Amon are calling the power, just like always, because their souls are inside Minion (proven ad nauseum earlier).

Originally posted by King Kandy
It's quite similar to the Joey Stacks Nabu-Possession Dr. Fate gambit in Evangel's tourney.

'cept for the part where I got everything ok'd beforehand. Imposing your interpretation of the rules only works if you're the one establishing the precedents. You aren't.

Originally posted by King Kandy
This is true, but only so long as it's Mary who's getting the power. The reason is that when a new character gains the power, you're requiring the outside entity to do something outside of the ordinary for your aid.

As before, it's Mary inside of Minion now. Same person, new host body. No one new is gaining the power. Your argument would only have merit if I didn't retain souls inside Minion.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Did he actively have a shield up?

Missed the point. Atom doesn't have regular shields. My point was that owning the sh*t out of him and cracking his armor is a far greater feat than besting whatever shields you put up, especially when Mary is only 1/3 of my magical power now. I'd be shocked if it took more than a punch or two to break through any and all defenses you guys have.

Originally posted by King Kandy
He can read weaknesses, sure, but can he detect the frequency to counter out a shield? I don't think so.

Actually...
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Legionnaires-022-08.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Legionnaires-022-15.jpg
Which I've posted before. Again, reading helps.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Additionally, you never even tried to counter my other points regarding Optimus. He is just a complete dead character in this fight, and without the psi-blockers we can easily mind rape you.

Mind rape a sentient alien robot, who has never shown weakness to telepathy? You guys were better off with the technopathy route (destroyed earlier), since that argument doesn't even make sense.

DigiMark007

DigiMark007
Digi Post #9

- I didn't mean to have the last few posts. But they made the mistake of finishing too early. So meh. This post is just wrap-up.

- If you believe my plan (you should), I win easily. The next few points detail exactly why that is true.

- In Minion Prime, I created a being who is physically superior to anyone in the tournament by a lot. This isn't embellishment, just straight fact. Cpt. Marvel+ power, speed, and durability, combined with KK's inconceivable skill = a nigh-physically-unbeatable combo. It is backed with mountains of evidence that they did a frankly lackluster job of trying to debunk. Kandy attempted to declare it illegal despite me having gotten every step of it approved either with the rules themselves or with illadelph. And id tried to reinterpret them to mean the direct opposite of what they say. It should be believed without reservation.

- As such, they had to fall back on telepathy, technopathy, and empathic attacks because they had no other choice. See the next bullet point for why 2/3 of those are utterly neutralized.

- This just occurred to me during id's last couple posts: Cable's simulated telepathy and TK is tech-based, and therefore is technology replicating feats but not in the same manner as powers. All tech gives off a frequency to perform its actions:
http://img119.imageshack.us/my.php?image=impico1ty3.jpg
Tony can analyze technological frequencies in picoseconds (the scans words, not mine) and neutralize it. Tony can neutralize all of their tp/tk/technopathy in the opening pico-seconds of the fight.. If that doesn't kill their last hope, I don't know what will.

- Which leaves, what, empathy? During a battle where I could literally be punching off chunks of the planet? Please. Especially when Minion has on-panel evidence showing him to be immune to such attacks (scans shown a couple times earlier). They were really grasping at straws here against a superior opponent.

- None of their scans show as much offensive or defensive capability as my team. Or durability, healing, etc. etc. Not even close.

- Speaking of confusing the enemy, I forgot to mention that Optimus will be projecting holograms to confuse them
http://img236.imageshack.us/my.php?image=op18or0.jpg
or
http://img70.imageshack.us/my.php?image=op21in1.jpg
...which means it will take even longer for them to locate me and attack. By which point they will be dead. I only need a few seconds to destroy their entire team.

- Election Day is coming. Make sure you cast your vote for Optimus Prime for President. But also vote for Digi in this match. Optimus commands it!

....

EtGQgSY9Nn4


....

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/4792/minionprime1hz8.jpg

illadelph12
***Official Announcement***

This is a quick one:

Digi's use of the giant Optimus Prime sized Iron Man armor has been deemed a violation of the tech cap. Just that part of his plan is being dismissed. All other points stand.

-Management

id369
None Debating Post.

I came here, to debate the plan I came up with when Kandy gave me heads up on what Digi was up to. This is the plan I choose to put together, and win or lose I am happy with the results. It was fun, I hope to do this again, and peace out.

- Id

DigiMark007
Digi Post #10

Illadelph, according to the PM, thinks the large armor I used has all of the capabilities of Extremis, so he banned it because he thought it was > Extremis. It punches and does energy blasts. I showed every feat of it ever in my writeup. So a hearty wtf to the ruling, which I made perfectly clear was not nearly Extremis level. It was just to have a second armor to use for a bit before I segued to the far more useful Extremis. But that's ok. I abide by the boss man's rulings, even when I disagree and thinks that he misunderstood the tactic.

Which brings me to my next point: all it did was punch and use energy blasts. Astute judges will realize that every feat I used to justify Tony's superiority was in Extremis, not the Transformer armor. It was a novelty to use in conjunction with Optimus. If I had thought it would be a problem, I would've scrapped it and been just as well off. And as always, Minion's my teamwrecker, Tony and Optimus are also insanely tough to take out but are just there for support.

So everything from earlier still stands. Rulings that wait until the final hours of the fight get the thumb down from me in general. We should really have a time limit for mid-battle rulings....Tuesday/Wed. or something. Because even when it doesn't have much impact like this ruling, it seems to carry an unnecessarily large momentum shift, which shouldn't happen in this case because we're talking about a small aspect of the plan.

Fortunately, this particular ruling banned a metaphoric drop in the bucket that is my entire argument, so everything is pretty much the same. If you thought I won before, I still win. And vice versa if you thought I lost (though I didn't wink ).

In other words: every negation of their tech, every technopathy feat, including how I completely neutralize their tk/tp/tech frequency (shown in post #10), every durability and energy feat, was all in Extremis, except for the 2-3 scans about the big armor in the writeup. Everything. And Minion is still a goddamn god. And you'll notice the illegal ruling was about an inconsequential afterthought in prep, not about Minion. Everything remains perfectly legal and proven with scans. Whatever you thought before ill's posts, think it now. And believe the scans, which support me over them.

....

And since I didn't want to post a #10, but was forced to for the ruling, I'll make it worth your while. Optimus Prime on being a leader, a soldier, and a champion, all while kicking ass against a vastly superior opponent:

http://img513.imageshack.us/my.php?image=op25001gn1.jpg
http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=op27ou0.jpg
http://img513.imageshack.us/my.php?image=op28vc8.jpg
http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=op29tb8.jpg

Believe the hype kids. Autobots, ROLL OUT!

cool

Scoobless
2nd and 4th scans aren't working for me at the end there Digi.

DigiMark007
Hm. They are for me. If anyone else has problems, let me know and I can re-post them.

King Kandy
The Optimus ones? I see them just fine.

AlmightyKfish
I got the same problem as Scoob, 2nd and 4th Optimus scans don't show =[

illadelph12

illadelph12

illadelph12
I'm covering the judgment this week, so I'll try to be both brief and throrough.

Here are two points that, among many others I won't list, influenced my judgment:

1. Due to a misread of his own scans, Digi hurt himself. The psi inhibitors from the Avengers/Transformers arc were in fact created by Ratchet, not Optimus Prime, and it's evidenced in the scans themselves, both in the dialog and in the visual depiction. Ratchet is the one that gives the inhibitors to Captain America, as shown in the scans Digi provided. I can see why Digi misinterpreted the scans, since both Ratchet and Optimus have the same colored text bubbles around their dialogue, but if you pay close attention to the details, you'll notice that Ratchet's red hand and grey forearm, not Optimus Prime's distinctive blue hand with red forearm, gives the inhibitors to Captain America, with the dialogue bubble coming from him. Also, what should have been a red flag and given this away to a Transformer's fanatic is the fact that Ratchet and Perceptor are the Autobots science officers and inventors. Optimus is not known for creating tech for the Autobots. It becomes a painful oversight because this would mean that Digi's team wouldn't have the psi inhibitors he claimed to use to protect him from the psionic assault of Id369/Kandy's team, which just so happened to become the main focus of their attack.

2.Id presented a very strong foundation for his transforming his teammates into hellspawn. However, why it does seem that the resurrected take on their previous human forms, I didn't see any evidence that a resurrected metahuman/mutant would retain their powers as well as gaining the hell spawn symbiote, though I also saw no evidence against it. That piece needs to be ironed out and better substantiated, but in the end, use of Gambit or Cable's natural abilities was not an integral part of the plan, and the primary focus was use of Spawn's soul and psionic abilities (which were supernatural and not tech based). I tend to believe that the resurrection of the characters would in fact include their meta powers as well, akin to Storm being turned into an undead vampire "BloodStorm" and retaining her base mutant powers along side her acquired supernatural Vampire powers.

It is comics, after all.

3. There's far too much technopathy being batted around. Both sides claim to be able to shut down the other team's tech at the onset of battle and posted numerous scans to support it. Both teams possess the ability. There's no true way of determining which team with the ability to overide tech supercedes the other, so I'm just calling it a draw and assuming neither team could shut down the other's tech. Tie goes to the runner, and you're both runners (baseball analogy).

There were some other things that effected my decision as well, but the main point that caused my vote was the mistake on Digi's part concerning the inhibitors. That oversight would have been minimal had it not been for the fact that the vast majority of Id/Kandy's attack were psionic/soul based. Due to this, and the other evidence, I don't believe that Digi's team has adequate defenses for the Marvel Family exorcisms on Minion (as Digi provided scans himself of an exorcism being performed on Death's Head, much to my surprise, and the can of Death's Head withstanding Psylocke's psionic dagger didn't sway me). Beyond that, I do believe that Cable and Gambit would be able to perform adequately in battle with Spawn's guidance and Cable's already having vast experience in matters of using psionics and telekinesis.

My Vote: id369/Kandy

Scoobless
Frankly I was surprised that no one else seemed to pick up on the fact that Ratchet was the one who built the psi-blockers (though there was a mention of someone thinking it was Jazz who made them for some odd reason)

Well done Digi, well played Kandy/Id.

illadelph12
Lol at my saying "here are two points" and listing three. Too much beer and football. embarrasment

King Kandy
Originally posted by Scoobless
(though there was a mention of someone thinking it was Jazz who made them for some odd reason)
My fault entirely, I confused the two Optimus scans and got Ratchet mixed up with Jazz in my initial post.

DigiMark007
I'm surprised the psi-blockers took up a third of ill's post. A few posts ago I admitted I read the scans wrong and said I didn't have them. I figured that point was assumed, since I conceded it. Ill's assessment of the scans is correct, but not news.

Anyway, good match guys. Good luck as the tourney continues.

DigiMark007
also a thanks to the judges, who I failed to thank until now for this match. The extra reasoning is nice, and helps with future planning, even though ill still overthinks everything he judges ( wink ).

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