Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

seeing as many of the conspiracy theorists in the forum have had, shall we say, lively debates with me...and in the spirit of reconciliation, i've decided to show that i am not against conspiracy theories as a rule...i am going to list things i believe have a basis for being considered conspiracies.

Atlantis:

as i've mentioned in another thread, i believe that Atlantis existed in some form and was destroyed by a geological event. given the huge amount of cultural and architectural similarities that exist between cultures on either side of the atlantic (Myans, Aztecs with Egyptians for example) it's not outwith the bounds of possibility that both evolved from a common source...and given that many islands in the atlantic exist along the mid atlantic ridge which is an active tectonic plate and one of the most volcanicly active and geologically unstable parts of the earth...then it's also not outwith the realms of possibility that an island with an relatively advanced culture existed and was destroyed, causing the inhabitants to flee outward in different directions and continuing and evolving slightly differently from a social anthropological POV on both sides of the atlantic

i dont believe, however, that it is like Atlantis as described in some myths...i.e...and under water bubble city

Lockerbie bombing:

I believe that abdel basset al megrahi was not the man responsible for the Lockerbie bombings and instead was a scapegoat that initiated peace deals between the USA and Libya and i Believe that Great Britain was side stepped in this agreement despite many UK citizens being killed on the ground in Lockerbie....this is something i may elaborate on later but some circumstantial evidence fromt the court case as well as other documents exist that point to different culprits and their being implicated would mean difficult political circumstances to occur

UFO's:

I believe that UFO's do exist and that we are not alone in this universe...you only need to read some of the 4000+ pages released this week by the UK ministry of defence (which Bicnarok made a thread on) to see evidence of this....

do i believe the US government has captured aliens in a secret location?....no...i don't...nor do i believe that some modern technologies are derived from alien technology as some people like to argue

so there you have it...3 conspiracies that i...jaden101...alleged "disinfo agent" believe in....

The similarities on both sides of the atlantic were because they used to be one continent.

However, that suggests that Aztecs and Ancient Egyptians went as far back as Pangea. How far back do they go, 10,000 BCE?

Originally posted by lord xyz
The similarities on both sides of the titanic were because they used to be one continent.



i'm sure you'll fix that before you can't edit anymore

Haha, I was looking at the jesuits thread before clicking onto this one.

I'm not sold on the atlantis story. I think that is just what it is...a story. But I am willing to listen to possible explanations as I am a big fan of ancient history.

Don't know enough about the Lockerbie incident, other than it just doesn't seem "right".

I'm in with the UFO's. However, I believe that the more moronic conspiracy theorists pile so much garbage on the subject that they not only muddy the issue, they completely block out any rational discourse on the subject.

- Other conspiracies I don't disbelieve are:
Bush administration tampering with 2 elections. And a few other administrational manipulations and actions.

-That Oswald was not a lone gunmen (put it in your pants Parker, I still thank that you're a nut.)

-that Kentucky Fried Chicken's 11 herbs and spices are indeed chemicals that make us crave that horrible chicken upon a first taste or even smell. Damn that Col. Sanders!

There are conspiracies out there, unfortunately, there are many more paranoid, moronic, lonely, socially maladjusted or just plain stupid people out there that take EVERYTHING as a conspiracy and fill this forum with irrational and moronic (though entertaining) threads and comments.

when theres a group of people at the top controlling everything, the majority of things that happen in the world revolve around them. not everything of course. but most.

Originally posted by Deano
when theres a group of people at the top controlling everything, the majority of things that happen in the world revolve around them. not everything of course. but most. These people at the top, so to speak, are not the cause of the problem, they are symptoms.

Well I take a lot of these theories under consideration, I dont invest completly as much as I just listen and"wait to see what happens". The one conspiracy theory I do believe in completly is that feminism was a tool of the goverment to get women out of the house for taxing purposes and to remove"mom/dad"so that the state can become the new parent.

aliens, maybe. psychics, definately. the indomitable will of humans to conceal/manipulate/control/play god/unlock the mysteries of the universe/ability of human beings to hurt others over trifle personal power, u bet ur ass.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the indomitable will of humans to unlock the mysteries of the universe

what's wrong with that ambition, in your opinion?

Originally posted by jaden101

UFO's:

I believe that UFO's do exist and that we are not alone in this universe...you only need to read some of the 4000+ pages released this week by the UK ministry of defence (which Bicnarok made a thread on) to see evidence of this....

do i believe the US government has captured aliens in a secret location?....no...i don't...nor do i believe that some modern technologies are derived from alien technology as some people like to argue

so there you have it...3 conspiracies that i...jaden101...alleged "disinfo agent" believe in....

Have to completely agree with you there....its documented fact that NASA and the American military tried out some radical flight designs in the nevada desert, No not UFO's but experimental designs which quite frankly they couldnt get to work. Those designs although experimental where not awe inspiring in there design and hardly what I would call the results of reversed engineered alien technology. In fact its been quite some time since the supposed roswell incident and if anything was discovered you could be rest assured something would have come of it for example better metalurgy on abrams tank, a star wars missile defense long ago etc the list is inexhaustable.

Nope folks the pinnacle of human flight achievements is the stealth fighters and bombers family which where probably mistaken for UFO's during testing as well since they have been around a lot longer than you think and are obsolete as the ruskies got there hands on one in yugoslavia though that exact model was obsolete far longer than that. I would hazard though that some interesting prototypes exist that are superior and have innovations I really could not tell you as I aint an aeronautical expert due to the simple reasoning that the stealth bomber has been publicised knowledge for an awful long time.

But yes in short it would be mighty arrogant and perhaps stupid to suggest the conditions that sprouted life here have not occured elsewhere in the vast space we call the universe. But alas traversing such distances may be impossible but I will not say never because what was known as modern physics years ago probably discounted stuff we can do today and some bloke probably got ridiculed then too.

Originally posted by jaden101
what's wrong with that ambition, in your opinion?

nuthing, but coupled with the other drives i mentioned, its impossible to beleive that to a MUCH greater extant than we let ourselves beleiver{or want to beleive}, we are lied to by those around us, more by people{and organisations} with power then people without it. as they say, knowledge is power.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
nuthing, but coupled with the other drives i mentioned, its impossible to beleive that to a MUCH greater extant than we let ourselves beleiver{or want to beleive}, we are lied to by those around us, more by people{and organisations} with power then people without it. as they say, knowledge is power.

believe me...there's a much higher chance of the ones you love lieing to you and that having a bigger effect on you than any corporation lieing to you could

and no...knowledge isn't power...action is power

the ones closest to us affect us the most by what they do. but the extant of subterfuge is never too great on a personal level {usually, because average individuals have limits to the amount of things at their disposal to begin with, you cant hide what isnt there}, even if it hurts us the most or matters the most.

also, the great power of hiding in large scale organisations and powerful people lies in the fact that they affect a much larger number of people, subtly, but it adds up. and it ends up affecting the lives of individuals many a time {you need look no further than relegion, considering the fact that much of the world is run by relegious people, oftem deply devout in the creepiness that is organised relegion}.

also, your point wudnt exist in lesser developed places like africa, where, due to the desperation and pain brought on by exploitation by powerful people/governments/organisations, basic human values are lost to large scale ware/survival/hunger/psychological illness, all of whom are perpetrated, not by significant others or individuals close to you, but large organisations and powerful people completely alien to you.

yes actions are TECHNICALLY power, but unless you know which way to DIRECT this power {which comes from knowledge}, its can be used indiscriminately, and that leads to chaos, more often than not. so more accurately, the knowledge to CONTROL ACTIONS {your own and of others} is power.

every governmenet, most organisations. are either tryingto survive in a controlling enviornment, or controlling or both.

individuals with a collective purpose/ideology and most importantly, directed actions

by africa, i mean the struggling africa, not the few decent minority countries

i gather you havent had good experiences with friends and family. dont worry, neither have i, but i dont use that to generalise. friends and family can be and very often are good to people.

im from pakistan, so ur off the mark, lol

9-11 affects the way this country{the one i live in} is run more than the way america runs itself. among the casualties of this illegal charade of a war, the civil liberties of the americans are the smallest of victims, you shud know that.

so having your privacy invaded and your individual rights trampled doesnt bother you? also, it HAS infact affected many people, the fact that u rent one of them is based more on coincidence than any great action on ur part or the government.

perhaps they rent doing a good job of it, or perhaps its damage control for other increased demands.

ur wrong here, most farmers are much poorer than that. dont let ur personal experiences bias you.

you wud be surprised as to how many charity organisations are lying to people and have other motives {relegious change, keeping up the LOOKS of companies doing other partially covert negetively socially/enviornmentall affecting stuff, money lundering etc}. but im not saying all of them have ulterior motives. but then again, the amount of resources going into charity are lilliputian compared to the amount going into taking advantage of the world.

do not how much of what you say is determined by your own personal experiences by what uve seen in apparently rather well off part of britian or america. there is a whole world out there, and that is what suffers more as a result of the actions of people in power. heck, come to pakista or india sumtimes. id give you a million bucks if you can show me ONE farmer who even own a car from the last 2 decades. {and im serious about this claim, just in case u thought i was exagerating}. america doesnt feal the direct consequences of the ACTIONS of the supposed conspiraters{seeing as it is one itself, as an organisation}. thats because it works to economically/politically/militarily/ideologically benefit , ITSELF through many of these conspiracies while stealing from the wrest of the world. the main conspiracies who wud AFFECT "your" world wud be concerned with public OPPINION and not with STEALING. that is where 9-11 comes in, that is where subtle and not so subtle manipulation of practically alllarge and small stream media is concerned, that is where filterning out news is concerned, that is where the elections are concerned, that is where school curriculum is concerned, that is where manipulation of public perception and fear is concerned.

actually i couldn't have a more supportive family...and some great friends...but i know that the things which have affected me the most (and i can speak for everyone i know as well) are perpetrated by people they know

i obviously cant speak from your perspective and your part of the world...and i'm not sure the media in the UK gives an entirely accurate portrayal of life there...so i'll refrain from speaking on that anymore

you're misreading me completely...i'm not having my rights trampled on and my privacy invaded...i can do everything now that i could do before the government allegedly started to destroy civil liberties...it's a myth...at least from my own experience and the experience of the people i know...and i'm not suggesting that's because of any action or decision on my part...i just live my life...nothing has changed other than those things i chose to change...i.e...got myself an education and a better job...

your presumption of my being well off...or at least living in a well off part of Britain is wrong also...i live in Dundee...have done for most of my life..is the 2nd most deprived city in Scotland, behind Glasgow..which is the most deprived city in the UK...people around me have be blighted by violence, drug abuse and poverty since i was very young...the change in that has been because of my actions...not those of any government or organisation

your allegations of charities being corrupt in the majority are more that of irrational fear and paranoia than anything else...apologies if this offends...but that's how i see it.

good to know

more like 80 innacurate, and all in the right places to subtly mislead

if you dont mind having ur privacy invaded then its ur own perogitive. however, many people value it and do not consider{rightly so} any rationalisations made by the government based on flimsy evidence and the WAR AGAINST TERROR, as justifying it. furthermore, by keeping a watch on the activities of society in general, and having personal info, organisations/government hold the power to manipulate people without people even knowing it {imagine stalking a girl 24/7 for a couple of months without her knowing, and using all that you find out to ask her out, say all the right things, pick all the the nice places, make urself the person she wants, and bam, u score. when se actually is judging u, thinking you just randomly are this compatible wonderful person}

again, first world poverty, well, ISNT poverty. or i guess it is, but only in a reletive sense. try living in a dangerous feudal owned area where government and services are corrupt to the core and living on less than a pound a day for the majority of ur life. not saying its all roses for u, just drawing a comparison.

hrmmm, are you the one whose worked with the actual DISTRIBUTION of charitable funds in third world countries or know people who coordinate them or politicians and beaurecrats of the highest echelon concerned with such activities{im not mocking u btw} ? i didnt think so. are you aware that over 85-90% of all charitable aid that reaches this part of the world goes into private pockets of politicians and NGO owners/workers???????????? lol, non profit NGOs are BIG business, but i guess u have no way of knowing that. so really, im not paranoid.

you're not understanding me...i'm not having my privacy invaded...that's my point...it's a myth...it's a conspiracy theory...there's no one sticking cameras in my bedroom window...there's no shady government official following my every move...

as for your poverty jibe (which it is)...it's all relative (as you seem to have a grasp of the concept) to the cost of living...which is infinitely higher in the UK than in Pakistan...infact it's one of the most expensive places in the world to live..so while the earnings of an average Brit may seem like a world above the average Pakistani...it doesn't go far...one area i lived in has a child poverty rate as 95%....squalor is squalor wherever you live...and i'm guessing that if you're talking about relatives then i'm guessing you having internet access in Pakistan makes you closer to the top % of wealth in your country than i to mine.

and yes...i've worked with the distribution of charitable donations to 3rd world countries...namely i've worked in Tanzania and Sudan...i've worked on the front lines...i've seen the difference it makes .i'm not saying your allegations are entirely unfounded...quite the opposite...that's why many charities now only deal with the people directly and only go to a country's government for permission to be there (Burma being a recent example...the 2004 tsunami relief effort also)...

yes there have been corruptions of organisations that were meant to be for the good (Iraq oil for food programme for example)...but on the whole...certainly not 80% of charity money goes to waste...and certainly not 80% of charities are corrupt

your opinion that corporations are almost entirely corrupt is also falicious...look at microsoft and the Bill Gates foundation...2 men gave 90% of their combined fortunes to combat AIDS, Malaria and general poverty...a total of some $60,000,000,000

their contributions to health care in the world are equal to the of the WHO...

so, the phone line tapping which bush admitted to himself is a conspiracy theory????? orrrrr r u thinking that im suggesting the US government is monitoring ur every move and reading ur brainwaves????? lol

but i also know that the people here who earn a dollar a day dont have near enough to even pay for their own very basic food, forget their families or any other basic necessities, so no, the fact that its more expensive to live in britian doesnt nearly counteract the difference in purchasing power of the individuals in the two places.

but ur forgetting the band aid for the bullet wounds analogy. governments and large organisations DONATE a lot at times, but thats mostly for PR and public image of the companies and said governments{cause usually they have caused/precipitated the crisis to begin with, or many other crisis worldwide and now just wanna better their position}. if ur talking about actual collecting and allocating agencies in the word for charities then no, im not generally suggesting that its some great conspiracy to take away money, {other than local NGOs in third world countries} , contrary to what u might think, i dont see conspiracis everywhere i go.

i assure you, the corruption figures i gave u for this part of the world are horrifyingly accurate. but then, this is fact and not conspiracy{albeit fact that media in the west isnt fond of throwing about unless it furthers propagandist ends}

i said MOST corporations have heavy ulterior motives and dabble in subterfuge, specially, seeing as the larger the organisation, the more contacts it generates witht he rest of the market and society, and well, putting it gently, the people who have the greatest control of both these things are SNEAKY. the IT business{outside the type used for military or intrnet filtering, e.g. google/wikipedia etc} is one of the few mainly technological/development based businesses, where the valued commodity is the newer invention in software/hardware. not much use or point or advantage, for that matter, for subterfuge there. on the ther hand, any organisation which is a significant mover of the world market, you bet ur ass theres subterfuge and dirty/morally corrupt dealings with governments etc.

and again, these CHARITABLE donations are nuthing compared to the amount of money being poured into the world to take advantage of society.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
and again, these CHARITABLE donations are nuthing compared to the amount of money being poured into the world to take advantage of society. I'm sorry but do you have a solution to fix all 6 billion+ of our problems? The world is a dark place, people are greedy and out for them selves and it will be a long time before the majority put the needs of others before there own but I like to beleive we as a species are slowly getting there.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
so, the phone line tapping which bush admitted to himself is a conspiracy theory????? orrrrr r u thinking that im suggesting the US government is monitoring ur every move and reading ur brainwaves????? lol

but i also know that the people here who earn a dollar a day dont have near enough to even pay for their own very basic food, forget their families or any other basic necessities, so no, the fact that its more expensive to live in britian doesnt nearly counteract the difference in purchasing power of the individuals in the two places.

but ur forgetting the band aid for the bullet wounds analogy. governments and large organisations DONATE a lot at times, but thats mostly for PR and public image of the companies and said governments{cause usually they have caused/precipitated the crisis to begin with, or many other crisis worldwide and now just wanna better their position}. if ur talking about actual collecting and allocating agencies in the word for charities then no, im not generally suggesting that its some great conspiracy to take away money, {other than local NGOs in third world countries} , contrary to what u might think, i dont see conspiracis everywhere i go.

i assure you, the corruption figures i gave u for this part of the world are horrifyingly accurate. but then, this is fact and not conspiracy{albeit fact that media in the west isnt fond of throwing about unless it furthers propagandist ends}

i said MOST corporations have heavy ulterior motives and dabble in subterfuge, specially, seeing as the larger the organisation, the more contacts it generates witht he rest of the market and society, and well, putting it gently, the people who have the greatest control of both these things are SNEAKY. the IT business{outside the type used for military or intrnet filtering, e.g. google/wikipedia etc} is one of the few mainly technological/development based businesses, where the valued commodity is the newer invention in software/hardware. not much use or point or advantage, for that matter, for subterfuge there. on the ther hand, any organisation which is a significant mover of the world market, you bet ur ass theres subterfuge and dirty/morally corrupt dealings with governments etc.

what Bush says and does doesn't concern me in that way...i dont live in the US...something that i've made abundantly clear

so the fact that in areas of my city, 95% of children live below the poverty line isn't significant?...the fact that the ridiclulous price of fuel in this country means that many people are having to choose whether to heat their homes or have enough food this winter....like you say...this is supposed to be a 1st world country....one of G8...regardless...this is a bit off-topic

the Bill Gates foundation isn't a case of a corporation merely donating a small % of it's money...we're talking, in the Case or Bill and Warren Buffett (who is no 1 on the Forbes rich list) given away an average of 90% of their wealth...that's more thanthe GDP of over 2/3 of all the countries in the world...it's hardly a mere band-aid analogy

the last point you seem to be mistaking government corruption (which there undoubtably is in many poor parts of the world...your country included) for corruption in charity organisations, which i believe isn't the huge problem you believe it to be. sometimes a charity has no choice but to funnel funds through a government or government agencies...it's at that point the money starts to disappear...which is the fault of the government officials and not the charities.

your point about the IT business not having need for subterfuge is another minomer...if anything, the IT sector would be more prone to subterfuge at all levels, not just at the top....for example software writers writing code into banking software to funnel money out of accounts for their own benefit...or the government colluding with software manufacturers to install spying software into home computers...the fact that IT equipment is so hugely pervasive in all aspects of business and personal lives means it has a much larger possibility to be used against huge numbers of people....and those with close to monopolistic control (microsoft) over the market are the ones with the power....and they're certainly not the evil, world domination desiring corporation that you would have them portrayed as...it's a company built up by a bunch of middle class geeks....

on a lighter note..this is a fun debate...i'm enjoying this...