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Let's say Orochomaru would of found Haku intead of Zabuza finding him and trained him and gave him a curse seal like he did Sasuke who do you think would win?

I forgot to add this as well. Haku is willing to kill with out thought. I think since Haku was strong enough to nearly defeat Naruto and Sasuke when they first fight that being trained by Oro to kill and given a curse seal would make him even more deadly.

I would take Haku 7/10.

How will Haku deal with Genjutsu?

Genjutsu? Does Jiraiya know Genjutsu well? Does that have a factor in Itachi saying he couldnt beat him? Anyway I am sure Oro would of taught Haku genjustu if he found him.

Genjutsu won't be a giant factor in this fight.

Originally posted by Wil7
Genjutsu won't be a giant factor in this fight.

How so? Sasuke has the mangekyou....

How so? Sasuke has the mangekyou

Again so did Itachi but could he beat Jiraiya? Some of you act like having the Mangekou Sharingan makes you unbeatable. Maybe you didn't read this right. I said what if Orochomaru would of come across Haku and taught him everything he taught Sasuke and given him a curse seal would he beat Sasuke.

Good point big juggy man. Madara lost to the 1st.

Originally posted by big juggy man
How so? Sasuke has the mangekyou

Again so did Itachi but could he beat Jiraiya? Some of you act like having the Mangekou Sharingan makes you unbeatable. Maybe you didn't read this right. I said what if Orochomaru would of come across Haku and taught him everything he taught Sasuke and given him a curse seal would he beat Sasuke.

Yeah, there's a difference between Jiraya/Shodaime and Haku.

Unless Haku has a way of breaking Tsukiyomi, Sasuke wins.

Not really, with Haku at 2nd state curse mark, he wil have speed maybe beyond Lee's.

Tsukiyomi is easily avoidable and he can just not look at his eyes. Gets him stuck in crystal ice mirrors and hits an vital organ right away.

Originally posted by Wil7
Not really, with Haku at 2nd state curse mark, he wil have speed maybe beyond Lee's.

Tsukiyomi is easily avoidable and he can just not look at his eyes. Gets him stuck in crystal ice mirrors and hits an vital organ right away.

Only problem is that Sasuke was already around Lee's speed without the boost from Sharingan or curse seal pre-timeskip. How would Haku know not to look into Sasuke's eyes?

Originally posted by Bada's Palin
Only problem is that Sasuke was already around Lee's speed without the boost from Sharingan or curse seal pre-timeskip. How would Haku know not to look into Sasuke's eyes?

Yeah, Haku's speed with 2nd curse mark> lee's 5th gate speed. Too fast that Sasuke, not even Neji could stop the attack. Haku is being trained by Oro, and he would have obviously told him about MS, and while Sasuke is getting ready to use MS, Haku throws a needle at a vital organ, anddeath.

Originally posted by Wil7
Yeah, Haku's speed with 2nd curse mark> lee's 5th gate speed. Too fast that Sasuke, not even Neji could stop the attack. Haku is being trained by Oro, and he would have obviously told him about MS, and while Sasuke is getting ready to use MS, Haku throws a needle at a vital organ, anddeath.

Got any proof to back up your wild claims?

Because Sasuke was equal to Haku in speed, right before Lee assraped him in their first meeting.

Originally posted by Bada's Palin
Got any proof to back up your wild claims?

Because Sasuke was equal to Haku in speed, right before Lee assraped him in their first meeting. Correction, on-panel Sasuke was faster.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Correction, on-panel Sasuke was faster.

Well gosh darnit, you couldn't go a single day without adding on to my arguments 131

Seriously though, why the hell is Haku being compared to the Shodaime and Jiraiya?

And saying with the CS2, he'll be faster than Five Gate Lee? BS.

Tsukiyomi traps Haku easily, Amaterasu melts his mirrors easily, Susanoo deflects his needles easily.

Really Haku's tricks just won't work in this fight.

sasuke got susanoo??

He has Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu, I guess I just assumed he has Susanoo and hasn't used it (or hasn't figured out how yet.)

Originally posted by Bada's Palin
Got any proof to back up your wild claims?

Because Sasuke was equal to Haku in speed, right before Lee assraped him in their first meeting.

Ok, if we know that Haku isn't trained by Oro, how can I prove them? You just know that his 2nd curse mark state will be speed with lee.

Yeah equal speed without the curse mark, with it, Haku>Sasuke.

correct me if i'm wrong, but where does it say that cursed seal 2 gives a boost in speed. I can't remember anyone with the cursed seal being able to move as fast as Rock Lee could. (Sasuke and Kimimaro was already fast) I thought the cursed seal only gave chakra+strength boosts.

Originally posted by Wil7
Ok, if we know that Haku isn't trained by Oro, how can I prove them? You just know that his 2nd curse mark state will be speed with lee.

Yeah equal speed without the curse mark, with it, Haku>Sasuke.

Sasuke was faster than Haku before they ever entered the chuunin exam :/

Sasuke's received 3 speed boosts since then, at least.

Originally posted by Bada's Palin
Sasuke was faster than Haku before they ever entered the chuunin exam :/

Sasuke's received 3 speed boosts since then, at least.

Jumpy

So, big deal.

AverageSavage, the first time Sasuke used the curse mark, he was way faster then before.

Originally posted by Wil7
Jumpy

So, big deal.

AverageSavage, the first time Sasuke used the curse mark, he was way faster then before.

Soooo, you don't have any proof at all?

And you have no proof Sasuke has a power boost.

Any ways Sasuke got a power boost from curse mark against Zaku.

Originally posted by Wil7
And you have no proof Sasuke has a power boost.

Any ways Sasuke got a power boost from curse mark against Zaku.

No proof that he got a power boost?

Did you not see him speedblitzing a CS2 guy without using sharingan or anything?

...No proof?

Well we know he got a speed boost from Kakashi, making him Lee's equal.

He then fully developed his Sharingan, which is not technically a speed boost, but it allowed him to dodge and parry a Kyuubi Naruto. You know, the guy that pwned Haku in the ass?

He then received training from Orochimaru, which also resulted in greater speed.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
...No proof?

Well we know he got a speed boost from Kakashi, making him Lee's equal.

He then fully developed his Sharingan, which is not technically a speed boost, but it allowed him to dodge and parry a Kyuubi Naruto. You know, the guy that pwned Haku in the ass?

He then received training from Orochimaru, which also resulted in greater speed.

And let's not forget that the Naruto Sasuke fought was far stronger than the one who faced Haku.

Originally posted by Bada's Palin
No proof that he got a power boost?

Did you not see him speedblitzing a CS2 guy without using sharingan or anything?

Go find where first used the Curse mark against Zaku, and you will see he got a speed boost.

Sasuke pretimeskip shunshin was faster than supersonic speed. Sasuke speed increased tremendously since then. Sasuke Shunshin=/< Hypersonic.

Sasuke is fast as hell and Haku got outclased by a slow as Sasuke. Then Sasuke got faster and increased his shunshin.

Right now Sasuke Great Dragon Flame would destroy the ice mirrors not tomention Amaterasu. Sasuke looks Haku in the eyes and traps him in his MS paralisis genjutsu and decapitates.

Also
The whole Jiraya>>>>>>Itachi think was debnunked by DB stats.

Itachi told alot of lies and fighting Jiraya in a life or death fight wouldnt have fit well with his plans of protecting Konoha.

Originally posted by Wil7
Go find where first used the Curse mark against Zaku, and you will see he got a speed boost.

Proof that he wasn't that fast earlier on. When he used Sharingan and fought Orochimaru earlier his speed was about the same.

BUT EVEN IF IT DOES GIVE HIM A SPEED BOOST, THAT'S IRRELEVANT.

Do you know why it's irrelevant? Because Sasuke received additional speed and power boosts since then.

Databook Stated Sasuke has Godlike speed and gave an example of it when he used Shunshin NO CURSE SEAL. And To prove other people cant reach this speed with it. Madara stated Sasukes shunshin was too fast and dei co-signed with it. Which means Sasuke shunshin is faster than everyone elses.

Sasuke could read Haku movements and avoid him after he has been riddles with needles and half dead with almost no chakra left. An 100% up to date Sasuke would trash him.

Madara said Sasuke was too fast, sure, but this was while in the guise of Tobi, Madara has proven himself to be much faster than Sasuke or anyone else in the entire series.

The next time i make a post please dont respond Dark Jaxx. I am in boxing forums, football forums ect ect ect and you are the most clueless person in any of them.

Sasuke was faster than Haku? Funny seing that Haku was moving so fast Sasuke and Naruto seem to be moving in slow motion. The only reason Sasuke was able to land a hit eventually was because Haku pretty much was out of charka ( Sasuke's Sharingan was a none factor) If Kakashi couldn't destroy or get out of the Demonic Ice Mirrors why would you asume Sasuke would? This is from a Haku who was holding back trying to avoid killing Naruto or Sasuke.

Are you telling me if Haku was trained by Orochomaru and given a curse seal he wouldnt be able to beat Sasuke now? Sasuke's Genjutsu wont work on Haku since he knows about the Sharingan and won't look into his eyes. Haku was alot smarter than Sasuke. How many other ninja seem to know so much about the Sharingan and how to stop it by just looking at it once? How many other ninja at that time could do one hand seals? Kakashi said he never seen somebody do that before Kakashi is a top of the line Jonin.

We don't know how powerful Haku was at that point in time but he was clearly powerful enough to kill Sasuke and Naruto while not trying his best. As i said before there was no way Haku could wni that fight. Naruto and Sasuke at 2 important of characters to be killed off so quickly. If Naruto would of have been killed the show would of ended.

Clearly Haku would beat Sasuke if he had a curse seal and was trained by Orochomaru. The funny thing is if Haku would of lived and gotten stronger like every other character he would beat Sasuke with out a curse seal.

Funny, I guess that's why people take me seriously and just ignore your posts and when they do post generally disagree with everything you say.

And you're an idiot. Go figure.

And Sasuke was faster than Haku except Mirror Haku.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Madara said Sasuke was too fast, sure, but this was while in the guise of Tobi, Madara has proven himself to be much faster than Sasuke or anyone else in the entire series.

Funny thing is. Madara is not exactly faster. His is actual warping space and time to place himself in another area. Not speed.

And Also Deidera co-signed a few pages after confirming the statement. and Dei is not slow @ all being upper tier in speed.

Also Sasuke got a speed boost in his Shunshin technique. Sasuke got much faster with it w/o cs s it doesnt really make a difference

Is there any quantifiable speed feat that either sasuke or any other naruto character has? Cuz im not sure i believe this idea of supersonic speed. It still takes even the fastest of them such as gai days to travel from village to village.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Is there any quantifiable speed feat that either sasuke or any other naruto character has? Cuz im not sure i believe this idea of supersonic speed. It still takes even the fastest of them such as gai days to travel from village to village.

Sasuke SHunshin does. Pretime skip He beat a Supersonic airwave while caring two other people easily. ANd Sasukes speed and agility ad use of Shunshin has increased tremendously over the timeskip. Now it seems to be basicly instant to the point it looks like teleportation. I know once time he cut up a CS2 8 times in a mere instant. And he speedblitzed Itachi Clone to the point only his sharingan could follow and not his body.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Sasuke SHunshin does. Pretime skip He beat a Supersonic airwave while caring two other people easily. ANd Sasukes speed and agility ad use of Shunshin has increased tremendously over the timeskip. Now it seems to be basicly instant to the point it looks like teleportation. I know once time he cut up a CS2 8 times in a mere instant. And he speedblitzed Itachi Clone to the point only his sharingan could follow and not his body.

When was this? A supersonic airwave? Was this ever stated or indicated as being supersonic? And really looking like its instantaneous does not make quantifable,. Even the whizzer can move and make it look instantaneous( depending on the distance) and he only moves a few hundred miles an hour.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
When was this? A supersonic airwave? Was this ever stated or indicated as being supersonic? And really looking like its instantaneous does not make quantifable,. Even the whizzer can move and make it look instantaneous( depending on the distance) and he only moves a few hundred miles an hour.

Databook says its a Supersonic airwave. Thus making it an airwave that reaches supersonic speed. And Sasuke pretimeskip shitted on it with Shunshin

Zankyokukuuha is a Ninjutsu technique utilized by the Sound ninja Zaku Abumi. This technique is a variation of the Zankuuhaa. Like the Zankuuha, Zaku creates a large gust of air pressure from the vents in his arms. This technique is the ultimate version of the lesser technique, it creates a massive gust of wind capable of totally wiping out his target and the surrounding area.

Zankuuha is a Ninjutsu technique utilized by the Sound ninja Zaku Abumi. Using the air vents installed in his arms, Zaku can control supersonic waves and air pressure. The Zankuuha creates a massive gust of wind which he can blast at an opponent. The gust is so strong it can even break rock.

It controls and emmits supersonic waves of airpressure. Once Again Sasuke shitted on it.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Funny thing is. Madara is not exactly faster. His is actual warping space and time to place himself in another area. Not speed.

And Also Deidera co-signed a few pages after confirming the statement. and Dei is not slow @ all being upper tier in speed.

Also Sasuke got a speed boost in his Shunshin technique. Sasuke got much faster with it w/o cs s it doesnt really make a difference Madara can use it in combat though, and it may as well be speed.

...When was Deidara upper-tier in speed?

sasuke iz gonna kik ass

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Madara can use it in combat though, and it may as well be speed.

...When was Deidara upper-tier in speed?

Madara hasnt fought anyone yet. And Especially with his spacetime jutsu. He has just phased through attacks and he was running and hoping from tree to tree not warping places. So far he cant fight with it until seen.

Since the databook was released. 4.5 and it caps off at tier 5. Sasuke tier is 4.5 but he probbaly at the very top of it. With shunshin he outclassed Dei and tobi. Dei even admits that his shunshin is too fast. The Databook even goes to say that with his skills, speed and sharingan Sasuke has godlike speed.

godlike speed? meaning his skills r so far off th charts he can maintain speed and agility while fighting 2 ppl at th same time (dei and tobi)... plz tell me if im wrong or not i dnt watch that much naruto but i no enough and alot bout it

SASUKES SHUNSHIN(not to say everyone elses)=Hypersonic speeds +agility+ sharingan being able to see and track high speed movement and predict others movements= Godlike speed.

Someone who is able to move at Hypersonic speed with agility to move around with it and is able to see everything easily is fast as hell.

hell ya i neva gave supersonic speed a thought...

Originally posted by Csdabest
Zankyokukuuha is a Ninjutsu technique utilized by the Sound ninja Zaku Abumi. This technique is a variation of the Zankuuhaa. Like the Zankuuha, Zaku creates a large gust of air pressure from the vents in his arms. This technique is the ultimate version of the lesser technique, it creates a massive gust of wind capable of totally wiping out his target and the surrounding area.

Zankuuha is a Ninjutsu technique utilized by the Sound ninja Zaku Abumi. Using the air vents installed in his arms, Zaku can control supersonic waves and air pressure. The Zankuuha creates a massive gust of wind which he can blast at an opponent. The gust is so strong it can even break rock.

It controls and emmits supersonic waves of airpressure. Once Again Sasuke shitted on it.

From what ive seen, that attack makes use of sound waves/sonic waves and wind. Thats not neccessarily the same as firing the blast off at supersonic speeds. That has to do with the nature of the attack( a sonic attack) not its actual speed.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
From what ive seen, that attack makes use of sound waves/sonic waves and wind. Thats not neccessarily the same as firing the blast off at supersonic speeds. That has to do with the nature of the attack( a sonic attack) not its actual speed.

Hey thats what the Databook says and its made by the creator of the manga. Supersonic air pressure. Supersonic is refference to speeds that exceed sound. Im not making it up.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Hey thats what the Databook says and its made by the creator of the manga. Supersonic air pressure. Supersonic is refference to speeds that exceed sound. Im not making it up.




From what u said the supersonic waves are different from air pressure. By the definition u gave he makes use of both to create a big gust of wind. The supersonic waves described are just sound waves he is emitting and combining with wind. I doubt that they have anything to do with the actual speed of the gust itself.

i doubt it also

Thats how it was made out to be. If you go to mangahelpers and talk to one of the transtlators or multiple translators. They translate it as the wave and gust being supersonic in nature and everything dont translate well into english. But So far in anime, manga, and video games all threesources along with databook the attack has been seen to be supersonic in nature and Shunshin has seen especially sasukes has been seen to shit on supersonic speed with it being instant. as even Shunshin has been described.

I'd like to see the actual data book's description for it, because the data book uses a lot of hyperbole, like Amaterasu and whole "hot like the sun" thing.

What i posted was basic description for it. Do you want the japanese raw?

I don't like sushi.



I mean like, got a link?

edit- nevermind.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Thats how it was made out to be. If you go to mangahelpers and talk to one of the transtlators or multiple translators. They translate it as the wave and gust being supersonic in nature and everything dont translate well into english. But So far in anime, manga, and video games all threesources along with databook the attack has been seen to be supersonic in nature and Shunshin has seen especially sasukes has been seen to shit on supersonic speed with it being instant. as even Shunshin has been described.

Something looking like its done in an instant does not make it supersonic. As i said, the attack was said to make use of sonic or supersonic waves and airpressure. This differentiation suggests that the term was not describing the speed of the overall gust of wind generated.

I guess i have to bring out translator statements who translated the information in the first place. Cuz the translators stated that its supersonic in nature. Supersonic is speed. nothing else. The attack speed is supersonic. There is nothing suggesting against it but your opinion. Yet i have opinion from definition of the attack, shunshin, and i can provide translator testimony explaining the attack.

Originally posted by Csdabest
I guess i have to bring out translator statements who translated the information in the first place. Cuz the translators stated that its supersonic in nature. Supersonic is speed. nothing else. The attack speed is supersonic. There is nothing suggesting against it but your opinion. Yet i have opinion from definition of the attack, shunshin, and i can provide translator testimony explaining the attack.

Also....if Sasuke can slice someone 8 times from 40 to 50 yards away and surpass the guy by like another 5 or 10 yards. All in the matter of an instant. that I guess that would be faster than supersonic or hypersonic. then.

Originally posted by Csdabest
I guess i have to bring out translator statements who translated the information in the first place. Cuz the translators stated that its supersonic in nature. Supersonic is speed. nothing else. The attack speed is supersonic. There is nothing suggesting against it but your opinion. Yet i have opinion from definition of the attack, shunshin, and i can provide translator testimony explaining the attack.

Yeah maybe u shud bring in the translators defintion of the attack. Because from what HE/SHE actually TRANSLATED, the attack( Zankuha or shushin) was never mentioned as moving at supersonic speeds.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Also....if Sasuke can slice someone 8 times from 40 to 50 yards away and surpass the guy by like another 5 or 10 yards. All in the matter of an instant. that I guess that would be faster than supersonic or hypersonic. then.

??? No way. We dont have a measure of time in the manga so we dont now how many seconds it actually took.

Going to take me awhile cuz i have to look up databases from back from 2006 to do this crap. Shunshin was stated to move from point a to point be till its like instant like. And as far as im concerned instant>>>Any measure of speed

Originally posted by ultimatethor
??? No way. We dont have a measure of time in the manga so we dont now how many seconds it actually took.

Considering all 8 blood drops did even decend yet and the creature was in the same exact position in which it landed. That and all the characters was in the same position. The sound effects where in a simple swoosh like shunshin. And seeing that Shunshin was used and shunshin happens in a instant. Then yes all of it did happen in a mere instant. Yet you have nothing to disprove it.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Going to take me awhile cuz i have to look up databases from back from 2006 to do this crap. Shunshin was stated to move from point a to point be till its like instant like. And as far as im concerned instant>>>Any measure of speed

Thats is just wrong on so many levels. A person moving at the speed of light wud be able to go 10 miles in a much faster time than a person moving at the speed of sound. However both of them wud look "instant" even though they wudnt be. A second can be described as an instant. However the difference between that and a micro second or nano second etc is very huge.

Now your trying to break down the definition of something you didn't create/translate/ draw. It already beat supersonic speed in which you deny and i gave you an example of shiunshin being in a mere instant.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Considering all 8 blood drops did even decend yet and the creature was in the same exact position in which it landed. That and all the characters was in the same position. The sound effects where in a simple swoosh like shunshin. And seeing that Shunshin was used and shunshin happens in a instant. Then yes all of it did happen in a mere instant. Yet you have nothing to disprove it.

What is an "instant"? An "instant" is not a conclusive measure of speed at all cuz it is not defined. As i said the difference between a second and a nano second is HUGE but seemingly unnoticeable. Sasuke doing something in an "instant" is proof of nothing.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Now your trying to break down the definition of something you didn't create/translate/ draw. It already beat supersonic speed in which you deny and i gave you an example of shiunshin being in a mere instant.

Oh please get serious. Im not breaking down the definition of shushin. I explaining that simply saying it happened in an instant does not give us a quantifable measure of his speed. Him doing something in an instant inno way means it moves at faster than supersonic speed. I have already explained why. As for the supersonic speed thing, i will wait till i see the translations or whatever because the actual description of the attack doesnt support that premise.

Im pretty sure after i post translators decription of the description yall still wont ebelive it.

It's because you're black, yeah.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
It's because you're black, yeah.

How the hell did you know O_o. Myspace?

No, windows with open curtains.