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which saber style do you think is superior

Juyo is. More power than Djem So without the lack of mobility weakness.

yes it true that djem so has lack of mobility but a skilled djem so fighter can apply agility and speed. Compensating these weakness.

It depends what users we are talking about. It has been stated by many Vaapad>Makashi but we all know Tyrannus>Bulq. Or take it this way. Ataru would be superior to Djem So for Yoda because of his size.


Juyo to me is sort of a mix btw Djem So and Ataru. Atleast when Darth Maul uses.

It depends. Djem So has that effective blaster deflect thing. Juyo is the suxorz vs blasters.

Djem So is better in general.

Juyo is better as a dueling form.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
Djem So is better in general.

Juyo is better as a dueling form. Agreed.

While I could agree with that, I must remember you that Mace had never showed any problem deflecting blasters. In CW cartoon he deflected tons of them, and even in shatterpoint he deflected dozens of blaster bolts coming to him with his and depa's lightsaber.

Both are good forms. Juyo's limitation is anger and dark emotion, because they have limits. But Juyo is a deadly form because of its unpredictable moves, not because superior strength. Djem So, on the other hand, is focused on dominating its foes, although has a lack of mobility. It's all about strength. Strength doesn't have limit when combined with the Force. You can keep empower yourself with the Force to become stronger.

Juyo = unpredictable moves, speed, strength (close to Djem So's strength)
Djem So = superior strength, dominating its foe, and some users can use the Force to become faster too, like Anakin

Both are good to combined with force rage. I respect those forms, they are equal in my opinion.

I'll take this "silent" as everyone agree with me.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
It depends. Djem So has that effective blaster deflect thing. Juyo is the suxorz vs blasters.

Djem So is better in general.

Juyo is better as a dueling form.

...No. Djem So is exclusively devoted to dueling. Shien, a variation of Form V, is specifically devoted to deflecting blasters.

Originally posted by Ultimate Vader
Both are good forms. Juyo's limitation is anger and dark emotion, because they have limits.

Wait, anger has limits now? Since when? I can get pretty pissed off.



Not true. Juyo is more physically powerful than Djem So. I posted several quotes describing both Juyo and Djem So in the 'Dooku vs. Maul & Ventress' thread. I can paste them if you'd like.



Erm, that's also not true. All Force-users are limited by the fact that they're not infinitely powerful in the Force, and thus, no - strength has a cap.

djem so is more powerful than juyo because it foucs on brute strength

Originally posted by beast1234
djem so is more powerful than juyo because it foucs on brute strength

I prefer to say that Djem So is stronger Juyo, but Juyo is more unpredictable than Djem So, if this is between two force-users at the same level. Both are good. Really depends on the user.

When I saw in your post the word "powerful", it seems like Djem So > Juyo in every way.

Originally posted by Ultimate Vader
I prefer to say that Djem So is stronger Juyo, but Juyo is more unpredictable than Djem So, if this is between two force-users at the same level. Both are good. Really depends on the user.

From Revenge of the Sith novelization, taken from Count Dooku's point of view:

"His own elegant Makashi simply did not generate the kinetic power to meet Djem So head-to-head."

"He dropped low and spun into another reverse ankle-sweep-the weakness of Djem So was its lack of mobility-that slapped Skywalker's boot sharply enough to throw the young Jedi off balance..."

From Jedi vs. Sith, Cin Drallig describing the lightsaber forms:

"Form IV, also called Ataru, is the most acrobatic Form, filled with numerous elaborate moves...By incorporating all the Force powers that enable one to exceed standard norms of physical possibilities, Jedi may resemble nothing less than a blur when they utilize Form IV."

"Forms V focuses on strength and lightsaber attack moves...Form V's Djem So variation is devoted specifically to lightsaber dueling. A dedication to power and strength necessary to defeat an opponent is characterizes the philosophy of Form V..."

"Juyo is the most difficult and demanding of all forms. Only high-level masters of multiple forms can achieve and control this discipline, which can lead to fantastic power and skill. Form VII employs bold, direct movements, more open and kinetic than Form V, but not so elaborate in appearance as the acrobatic Form IV. Unlike Form V, Form VII requires greater energy because the focus is wielded more broadly, and draws upon a deeper well of emotion; while the outward bearing of a Form VII practitioner is one of calm, the inner pressure verges on explosion. And unlike the graceful, linked movements of Form IV, Form VII tactics overwhelm opponents with seemingly unconnected staccato sequences. This combination of traits makes Form VII highly unpredictable in battle."

From Shatterpoint, Yoda speaking:

"Six there were for generations of Jedi. The seventh, is not well-known. Powerful form it is. Deadliest of all."

So there you go. Juyo, per the sourcebook, generates more kinetic energy (power/strength) than Form V - Djem So. Not only that, but it doesn't have the weakness that Djem So has, either, because it also uses sequences from Form IV, which sometimes allow the user to appear as a blur because they move with such speed and fluidity.

what real life martial art was juyo adopted from

Juyo looks like samurai moves.
Djem So looks like european sword moves.
Makashi looks like fencing moves.

IMO.

I thought juyo was adopted from the chinese straight sword techniques but your right when i so darth maul fighting obi wan he was using samurai moves. Djem so moves resemble conan the cimmerian techniqes.

Originally posted by Ultimate Vader
Makashi looks like fencing moves.

IMO.
i disagree
fancers tend to lean into their moves quite a bit, and from what i know of makashi, users of this form try not to do this
also, fencing involves a lot of stabbing motions..makashi users (again going only by my limited knowledge of the forms) try to perform precise cuts rather than wild stabs...

IMO, of course

Play ROTS PS2. Play as Dooku. Looks like a fencer to me

Originally posted by beast1234
I thought juyo was adopted from the chinese straight sword techniques but your right when i so darth maul fighting obi wan he was using samurai moves. Djem so moves resemble conan the cimmerian techniqes.

Play ROTS PS2. You'll know their moves better .

Originally posted by Ultimate Vader
Play ROTS PS2. Play as Dooku. Looks like a fencer to me
game physics <<<<< canon

fencing covers neither of these..

yes it dose

no, fencing requires quite a lot of effort, and there are many rules which makashi cannot follow for obvious reasons -
foil is to thrust
epee is also to thrust
sabre is to either cut or thrust
the big difference is that makashi requires a light touch, whereas fencing requires heavy thrusts or cuts
once you get past the start/stop of fencing, the enitre game is stabbing or parrying followed by a thrust
in short, makashi and fencing have very little in common

what about Djem So + Ataro(which is what Anakin uses) against Juyo..

or Ataru + Soreusu(which is what Yoda uses) against Juyo.

Anakin and Yoda dnt combine their forms into 1, but they easily switch from 1 to the other.

Originally posted by MadMel
i disagree
fancers tend to lean into their moves quite a bit, and from what i know of makashi, users of this form try not to do this
also, fencing involves a lot of stabbing motions..makashi users (again going only by my limited knowledge of the forms) try to perform precise cuts rather than wild stabs...

Aw, not true at all. You must have been watching some bad fencing. Fencers do not lean into their movements at all. For one, it tips your hand. For two, it draws you off balance - you're not as easily able to step back, or dart forward.

To me, Makashi looks like a combination of epee and sabre.

BTW - "wild stabs"? Seriously? A foil fencer's (I'm one, I should know) only target area is the torso - you've got to be beautifully precise and engage in a lot of feigns, disengages, and beat attacks or blade binds to score a hit. You must have been watching some really poor bouts.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Aw, not true at all. You must have been watching some bad fencing. Fencers do not lean into their movements at all. For one, it tips your hand. For two, it draws you off balance - you're not as easily able to step back, or dart forward.

To me, Makashi looks like a combination of epee and sabre.

BTW - "wild stabs"? Seriously? A foil fencer's (I'm one, I should know) only target area is the torso - you've got to be beautifully precise and engage in a lot of feigns, disengages, and beat attacks or blade binds to score a hit. You must have been watching some really poor bouts.
i was watching a few olympic matches on yotube..
rubbish, of course they lean, they have no choice when they lunge foward to deliver the hit...a makashi user like dooku never use that technique...
_ST1wRzfgmI&feature
and there is a difference between 'wild' and 'imprecise'

so what sword fighting technique is Makashi adopted from

fencing in star wars could be different to us, but if you're so sure, ill concede, though i still cant see the resemblance

This is a lightsaber, not a "fencing sword" or whatever it's called. It does damage, a lot of damage. No need for wild stabs. Just simple and precise cut and the opponent will be in blinding pain.

Foil?

Whatever it's called. Anyway, Makashi is fencing, but more elegant because of the lightsaber. As I have said before, Lightsaber does serious damage, even with weak attack. It's not made of steel, you know.

Form V consists of Shien and Djem So. Djem So being specifically for duelling. So I just wanted to point out that even though Juyo is said to be a deadly combination of Forms 4 and 5, it doenst say anywhere that its a combination of Djem So and Ataro or that it is designed for duelling.

As far as I know the only ones specifically designed for Lightsaber duelling are Makashi and Djem So.

As for Djem So's weakness, that can be hard to take advantage of if the Djem So user is all over his opponent, or If the Djem So user is himself fast and mobile.

And look who we have in SWU, Anakin/Vader and Bane.

Juyo - see Chinese martial arts.
Makashi - see German & Spanish fencing

Originally posted by Enyalus
...No. Djem So is exclusively devoted to dueling. Shien, a variation of Form V, is specifically devoted to deflecting blasters.



Wait, anger has limits now? Since when? I can get pretty pissed off.



Not true. Juyo is more physically powerful than Djem So. I posted several quotes describing both Juyo and Djem So in the 'Dooku vs. Maul & Ventress' thread. I can paste them if you'd like.



Erm, that's also not true. All Force-users are limited by the fact that they're not infinitely powerful in the Force, and thus, no - strength has a cap.

lol
agreed
except for Anakin? well actually he has limits also.
and I thought soresu or whatever Obi-Wan uses is best for defense. Didn't he completly pwn a room full of droids while drunk or something?

And if you think about it, all the forms are equal.

Even Shi-Cho ?

Originally posted by Ultimate Vader
Even Shi-Cho ?

Fisto was a master of shi-cho and he did fine against grievous which is more than most jedi can say.

Oops. I forgot about Fisto.

Possible example of Juyo vs Makashi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdMPElN02DQ

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
Fisto was a master of shi-cho and he did fine against grievous which is more than most jedi can say.

did just fine?? lol! he completely battered GG

LOL, seriously? Was that like in the new CW series or something? IF so, awesome. I'm a huge fan of the Fisto.

Originally posted by Taven
LOL, seriously? Was that like in the new CW series or something? IF so, awesome. I'm a huge fan of the Fisto.

Yes it was, it was in the episode the "Lair of General Grievous." I wish I saw this episode.

djem so ftw.

was ulic qel droma a master of djem so

Juyo. The Force Unleashed novel states that it is the more advanced of the two and deadlier, although really it all depends upon the user.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Juyo. The Force Unleashed novel states that it is the more advanced of the two and deadlier, although really it all depends upon the user.
I agree but can you show the quote? I think Juyo is just as powerful or very close in power to Djem So but has much more mobility(Djem So weakness according to Dooku) but like you said depends on the user

Trakata wins.

Originally posted by Icy Ninja
I agree but can you show the quote? I think Juyo is just as powerful or very close in power to Djem So but has much more mobility(Djem So weakness according to Dooku) but like you said depends on the user Dooku says that Djem So has poor mobility.

Originally posted by Vengeful Koala
Dooku says that Djem So has poor mobility. So did Icy Ninja.

But didn't Marek utilize Shien most of the time? I can't remember who posted it, but it is a variation of Djem So, but does have the mobility of Juyo. And Galen did just fine.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
So did Icy Ninja. Egads. I missed the "but" and apparently the stuff in parenthesis.

Dooku did say that in the ROTS novel right? I Haven't read it since the summer and only read through the fights.

i say ulic qel droma was the best user of djem so

Originally posted by beast1234
i say ulic qel droma was the best user of djem so

I say that the moon was made of cheese until we faked the moon landing, at which point it (and the hangar in which we faked the whole thing) turned to solid gold.