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The Jedi have access to KDY and all of its subsidiaries, the CIS all of its droid factories.

Team Stomps the Vong.

not sure: i think the vong, because the CIS have such pathetic Tech, but wouldn't it be an ironic War? The Vong would hate the CIS SOOOOO much.

Yeah, but they've got 10,000 Jedi to throw at them, whereas NJO only had about a hundred. And still gave them hell.

thats true, but only about hundred? where is that number from? i thought they were closer to a thousand?

Originally posted by truejedi
thats true, but only about hundred? where is that number from? i thought they were closer to a thousand?

One of the early NJO books...in fact, I think it might be Vector Prime...when Leia goes to visit those two planets at war, one of them run by Nom Anor (forgot the names). It's mentioned just after that. And mentioned at various places in books after that - I think during the Battle of Dantooine, for instance.

oh okay. i've been meaning to re-read some NJO books, (its probably been a year or two since i read any of them) i just haven't had time.

There's a good chance the Jedi could win. That's assuming that they're all remarkably adaptable. Thousands of years of fighting people within the Force and suddenly WHAM! Nothing. Plus Vonduun Crab armor. Plus humongous numbers. Plus tech. that exceeds the CIS.

The Vong doesn't use technology at all, but organics. The Confederacy is a tremendous threat through sheer numbers. Perhaps not exactly in space, but definitely on the ground.

Originally posted by Gideon
The Vong doesn't use technology at all, but organics.


They use Organic technology.



There is nothing to suggest that their husbandry and genetics programs are anything but scientific.

Wow, this is ridiculous. The CIS gets curbstomped. It would never come down to a ground battle because the Vong would just dominate them in every space engagement and then perform base-delta zero on every CIS world. Vong win easily.

The Confederacy outnumber the Vong by ridiculous means and they, too, have the means by which to perform a base delta zero.

They outnumber the Vong by ridiculous amounts in space? I'm not sure if I agree with that. And even if they did, I've already shown in a previous thread that Yuuzhan Vong ships generally are at least NINE times more powerful than ships that filled similar roles in Navies before the Empire. The GE lead to a massive leap in ship technology. For instance, turbolasers from before the GE recycle a third as fast as the ones the GE had and the New Republic eventually adopted. Therefor, when comparing, for instance, an ISD and a clone wars ship, you have to cut the number of turbo's on the clone wars ship by a third to effectively compare it to the Imperial ships. Knowing this, a single ISD is about as capable as NINE Venator's and a Miid Ro'ik was capable of defeating a ISD in one-on-one, putting at least nine times as strong as the strongest common ships in either the Republic or CIS fleets.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Wow, this is ridiculous. The CIS gets curbstomped. It would never come down to a ground battle because the Vong would just dominate them in every space engagement and then perform base-delta zero on every CIS world. Vong win easily.
Quintillions of Battledroids, and millions of starships, +the Jedi Order. The Malevolence will be able to KO many Vong ships. curbstomped, no, infact the Vong might get beaten by sheer numbers. Oh and remember KDY shipyards are also active as well as all their subsidiaries

First, I would like to see a direct quote for where the number of starships they have. And I would also like to add that coming from GG, it's probably subject to ridiculous levels of hyperbole to try and intimidate opposing forces.

Second, having millions of ships doesn't make them that powerful if the majority of those ships are smaller, weaker vessels.

Just so you know, the giant ion cannons won't have the same effect against the Vong ships, as ion cannons just disable mechanical ships and won't affect the organic technology the Vong use. Other than that, it would be outgunned by only a few dozen Miid Ro'iks, as it's weapons that would actually affect the Vong are much less capable.

They do.

According to Admiral Ackbar's investigation, as of Destiny's Way, the New Republic had obliterated nearly a third of the Vong's military forces. Compare this to the Confederacy who field several quintillion droids according to General Grievous: Lord of War. Meanwhile, according Revenge of the Sith: Incredible Cross Sections, the Confederacy's navy fields "millions" of warships (they were locked in battle with the Republic during the Siege of Coruscant). Hence why there were only a "few thousand frigates and destroyers" available for Grievous's assault on the capital.

Numerically, the CIS outclass the Vong by lightyears.

Why are you bringing up their numbers of units on the ground? And notice that I said we shouldn't be to hasty to accept anything stated be GG without logical basis supporting it, because it could easily have been propaganda. Can you provide any such support for them actually having those numbers of troops?

Then, notice what I said about having millions of ships not being that important if the majority of them are just frigates and such. The Vong had millions of ships too, and they are FAR more capable on a ship per ship basis than anything before them.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Why are you bringing up their numbers of units on the ground?

To put it into proper perspective on how terribly the Vong are outnumbered.



And who said that the General was the one who said it?



The sources.

I strongly urge you to not try the lawyer's approach to exploit a loophole. You won't find any here and it's a sign of great desperation.



And you have reason to believe that they are based on...?



I want the source that says that the Vong had millions of ships. And then I want to know how you reconcile the fact that they -- somehow -- managed to lose a third of their warriors against a disorganized nonmilitant government.

Hey sorry for the delay I had run from the computer unexpectedly.

Originally posted by Gideon
To put it into proper perspective on how terribly the Vong are outnumbered.

Except ground forces are not important and the quote is obviously subject to blatant hyperbole. Quintillion's of droids would put their numbers at trillions PER WORLD. The droids would have outnumbered the population of the galaxy itself. Can logically prove that?

Originally posted by Gideon
And who said that the General was the one who said it?

That's what I was told in the Old Republic vs. Vong thread. And as I said, doesn't matter who it came from, it's obviously not true.

Originally posted by Gideon
The sources.

I strongly urge you to not try the lawyer's approach to exploit a loophole. You won't find any here and it's a sign of great desperation.

Like I've said, the source you provided is completely illogical. If you're going to take that at face value, you have to take the 3 million clones quote at face value as well. If you do I'll just point out that 3 million clones overcame the CIS, so it doesn't matter how many droids the CIS had, they still were equal to only 3 million clone troopers, which the Vong would annihilate.

Originally posted by Gideon
And you have reason to believe that they are based on...?

The fact that in the GE less than .1% of their navy was composed of ships equal to or great than their ISD's. Any reason to believe this isn't typical of all SW navies?

Originally posted by Gideon
I want the source that says that the Vong had millions of ships. And then I want to know how you reconcile the fact that they -- somehow -- managed to lose a third of their warriors against a disorganized nonmilitant government.

It's pretty obvious that their fleet was extremely powerful.

Yes, they did lose a third of their fleet, but in doing so they had managed to effectively fight the :
New Republic
Hutts
Hapans
Chiss
Imperial Remnant
Yevetha (who alone had a considerable navy)
Mandalorians (pretty weak, but still a factor)
Zonoma Sekot (again, weak, but still a factor)

Canon>your opinion. T-Canon states that the clones were outnumbered a hundred to one. THAT IS ABOVE KAREN TRAVISS SO SHUT UP ABOUT THAT FIGURE! Now considering the fact that the Vong was scared shitless...shitless, by Thrawn's Imperial remnant which was like one percent of the total Imperial fleet. The Galaxy had quadrillions of SPECIES. How the hell do you figure the droid army outnumbers the Galaxy's inhabitants, may I remind you colonies and worlds with a million people would not be represented in the Senate. Your stubbornness is so infuriating, the Vong can't touch the CIS's numbers, combined with the Jedi Order and Grievous as strategists the Vong will most likely lose here.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Canon>your opinion.

Your's as well if you want to play that game. You cannot pick and chose quotes like that. Use them all or none at all.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
T-Canon states that the clones were outnumbered a hundred to one. THAT IS ABOVE KAREN TRAVISS SO SHUT UP ABOUT THAT FIGURE!

And logical deduction shows that there is no way that either figure provided is correct. I have already established more reasonable estimates for the size of the Clone Army.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Now considering the fact that the Vong was scared shitless...shitless, by Thrawn's Imperial remnant which was like one percent of the total Imperial fleet.

The Vong were never scared of the Remnant. They only feared the Empire at it's peak.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
The Galaxy had quadrillions of SPECIES. How the hell do you figure the droid army outnumbers the Galaxy's inhabitants, may I remind you colonies and worlds with a million people would not be represented in the Senate.

Where exactly did you come up with that figure. The death toll of the Yuuzhan Vong war, which was described in TUF as the most devastating war the galaxy had ever seen, was 365 trillion. The population of the galaxy is just as large as you seem to think.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Your stubbornness is so infuriating, the Vong can't touch the CIS's numbers, combined with the Jedi Order and Grievous as strategists the Vong will most likely lose here.

The Vong will never have to engage the CIS in a ground battle as BDZ is easy for them. Space battle is what it comes down to and the Vong trump the CIS easily there.

Really? Jedi have lead boarding parties before, they could be useful in ceasing Vong ships. And the Droids outnumber the Vong by a ridiculous margin

Address my arguments point by point please.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Your's as well if you want to play that game. You cannot pick and chose quotes like that. Use them all or none at all.

I'm not, Traviss is a C-Canon source, there are two C-Canon sources that state that the CIS had quintillions of droids. Dooku's statements that there they outnumber the Republic a hundred to one is T-Canon, only below the movies themselves which is why the very fabric of the Clone Wars timeline is being re-written by the Clone Wars saga. So 2 C-canon sources+T-Canon quote> 1 C-Canon quote from the killer of canon Karen Traviss
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
And logical deduction shows that there is no way that either figure provided is correct. I have already established more reasonable estimates for the size of the Clone Army.
You realize that the population of Coruscant alone is more than that of your suggested figures of the clone army, thats like the entire US army in a WWII situation being the size of Washington, can't happen

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
The Vong were never scared of the Remnant. They only feared the Empire at it's peak.




I thought Nor Anor feared attacking the Empire even after the Emperor's third death

This is true I misread a source



How? The CIS still outnumber them by a vast number

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I'm not, Traviss is a C-Canon source, there are two C-Canon sources that state that the CIS had quintillions of droids. Dooku's statements that there they outnumber the Republic a hundred to one is T-Canon, only below the movies themselves which is why the very fabric of the Clone Wars timeline is being re-written by the Clone Wars saga. So 2 C-canon sources+T-Canon quote> 1 C-Canon quote from the killer of canon Karen Traviss

But the number is just as ridiculous as the 3 million clones claim. We can't pick and chose quotes. Both need to be disregarded. The authors we can say were wrong and the statements from GG and Dooku can be seen as exaggerated for use as propaganda.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
You realize that the population of Coruscant alone is more than that of your suggested figures of the clone army, thats like the entire US army in a WWII situation being the size of Washington, can't happen

In Star Wars it seems to be pretty regular. Plus, Coruscant is WAY different from most of the galaxy. Many planets seem to be far less populated than Earth is.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I thought Nor Anor feared attacking the Empire even after the Emperor's third death

I don't think thats true. Even still, the Empire was still extremely powerful.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
This is true I misread a source

So how can there be quintillion's of droids? Do they outnumber the rest of the galaxy?

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
How? The CIS still outnumber them by a vast number

On the ground I'm sure the CIS would have a much better shot. They might even win. But in space the battle is very far in the Vong's favor. There average warships outpower the Venator's at least nine to one. Possibly even more. Like I have said, the Vong effectively fought basically every goverment in the galaxy at that time. The New Republic, the Remnant, the Chiss, the Yevetha, the Hapans, ect. They were ridiculously capable in space and are more than wiling to BDZ any planet so they don't have to do a ground engagement.

It is very much true. After Palpatine's final death in Empire's End, Nom Anor continued to manipulate the Interim Ruling Council and self-styled emperor Xandel Carvius into destroying the remaining Imperial infrastructure on warlordism.

And even after that, the Vong waited many more years to attack.

Originally posted by Gideon
It is very much true. After Palpatine's final death in Empire's End, Nom Anor continued to manipulate the Interim Ruling Council and self-styled emperor Xandel Carvius into destroying the remaining Imperial infrastructure on warlordism.

And even after that, the Vong waited many more years to attack.

Ummm....Carvius was emperor for all of a few hours.

Does this necessarily say that were still afraid of the Empire? No. It just wasn't an opportune time to strike, probably, as there were two especially powerful factions instead of just one like there would be later. Plus, add that they just saw the Empire's Galaxy Gun, Eclipse Star Ships, World Devastators, and the Sun Crusher. Probably wanted to wait and make sure there wasn't plenty more such weapons laying around.

And, even though the Imperial Fleet was destroyed, they still had the massive production capacity. It took just a short time for the Empire to build the World Devastators, two Eclipse Ships, and the Galaxy Gun, which, with the help of the New Republic and remaining Imperial Force, could have effectively wiped out the Vong, or any other group.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Ummm....Carvius was emperor for all of a few hours.

Ummmm... he had been under Anor's influence for longer than "just a few hours."



Yes.



Don't try to use Sithian or Palpatinian logic to rationalize why the Vong didn't strike. They're warriors first, pragmatists a distant, distant second. If they thought they could have defeated the Empire on an even footing, they would have. They didn't. They couldn't.



Great.

Anyways, back to the military issue, all evidence points to the fact that if the Vong could have taken out the Empire, they would have. They didn't. They couldn't.

Originally posted by Gideon
Ummmm... he had been under Anor's influence for longer than "just a few hours."

He was Emperor for only a few hours though.

Originally posted by Gideon
Yes.

How so?

Originally posted by Gideon
Don't try to use Sithian or Palpatinian logic to rationalize why the Vong didn't strike. They're warriors first, pragmatists a distant, distant second. If they thought they could have defeated the Empire on an even footing, they would have. They didn't. They couldn't.

They weren't going to be fighting the Empire. They would be fighting the galaxy, and they knew that.

Originally posted by Gideon
Great.

Anyways, back to the military issue, all evidence points to the fact that if the Vong could have taken out the Empire, they would have. They didn't. They couldn't.

The military industry is a huge military issue. The Empire was able to make huge superweapons as well as still having the ability to field a massive fleet.

Come on, Gideon, your better than this.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
He was Emperor for only a few hours though.
Does it matter, he was high enough in the Imperial hierarchy to be considered for Emperor, so obviously he had access



They were scared shitless of the Empire, period, this was after palps third death, and the New Republic being in a state of confusion. The Vong scared of the prospect of attacking a fragmented Empire.


What the CIS will have control of the Galaxy in this situation.




And the CIS cannot? *points at the Malevolence*

He won't need to because your arguments continue to fail

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Does it matter, he was high enough in the Imperial hierarchy to be considered for Emperor, so obviously he had access

They only elected him because everyone hated him and they wanted him killed. It wasn't like he did anything.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
They were scared shitless of the Empire, period, this was after palps third death, and the New Republic being in a state of confusion. The Vong scared of the prospect of attacking a fragmented Empire.

Scared shitless of the Remnant? Oh really? Can I see your exact source for this? Can you prove being "scared" of the Empire was the reason they chose not to invade the galaxy at large?

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
What the CIS will have control of the Galaxy in this situation.

The Empire controlled far less than the entire galaxy. The Vong wouldn't have been just fighting them. Like I have said, there are plenty of other huge governments that need to be taken down.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
And the CIS cannot? *points at the Malevolence*

The Malevolence is nothing next to what the Empire had. Add to that the fact that it's superweapon, the ion cannons, won't even affect the Vong's as they don't use mechanical technology.

The military industry that the Empire still had is enormous. In theory they could have popped out a Galaxy Gun, several from Sovereign Star Dreadnoughts(15km long, possessing a superlaser), at least one Eclipse Star Dreadnought, plus countless more ships in only a few months. They lost their fleet at Byss, but not the ability to build a fleet.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
He won't need to because your arguments continue to fail

I see, so they hated someone so badly they made him emperor makes a hella sense

Even after the Emperor died three times, two Death Stars had been destroyed, a Galaxy Gun, two Eclipses and several Sovereigns had been annihilated, and the Imperial chain of Command had been shattered, they still didn't attack. Gideon has sourced this multiple times in previous and this argument refer back to them if you must.

What other "huge" governments were there that weren't enslaved by the Empire. All shipyards were under their jurisdiction, and had some Imperial presence even though they also sported their own fleets i.e KDY.

The bombardment of three Venators did not scratch its hull. And it had hundreds of Turbolaser batteries.


The CIS had the production capabilities to produce millions of warships, and quintillion of battle droids. Their primary ability to produce fleets came from KDY which is how the Republic mangaged to produce thousands of Venators in like a year, they have the capacity to build superweapons as well i.e. the Eclipse and dozens of SSDs. May I add the Jedi Order as I said at the start of this thread have access to KDY

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
They only elected him because everyone hated him and they wanted him killed. It wasn't like he did anything.

This is not at all relevant to the actual point, Glentract. To quote the official databank's profile of Nom Anor:

"Anor worked both as a subtle manipulator and a political firebrand, disrupting the politics of local systems and stirring up trouble for the New Republic and the new Jedi order. Anor pulled the strings behind Xandel Carivus, a key member of the Imperial Interim Council that replaced the Empire after the death of Palpatine's clone. His behind-the-scenes actions helped hasten the eventual downfall of the fragmented Empire."

That Carivus was emperor for only a short time is as relevant as your quoted statement; Anor was one of the parties responsible for the destruction of the Empire.



This is a ridiculous contention.

First, the Vong culture has been established as warriors. As Admiral Ackbar succinctly noted, they are appallingly arrogant, peerlessly ferocious, characteristically proud, and rule and direct through brute force. Why would Anor be sent to disrupt the Empire if the Vong weren't frightened of them? You apply Sithian principles -- deception, misdirection, surprise, manipulation -- to conventional Vong logic and it doesn't work. Period.

Second, where is your source that says that the Vong were "frightened" of a decentralized and virtually nonmilitant galaxy? As you boasted quite nicely, the Vong managed to hold their own against the New Republic and the remnant of the Empire. Give me cited sources of rebellions and rebel efforts to subvert Vong control from planetary populations. And then I want you to reconcile your absurd theory with the fact that the Vong managed to capture Coruscant, the most heavily defended planet in the entire galaxy, and drive Gilad Pellaeon from Bastion and tell me why they would fear the rest.



During what time?



And yet Anor focused on the Empire. Wonder why.



That's not the point at all. Military industry is directly related to military functioning as a whole. Why you bring this up at all remains a mystery.

the leader of the Vong didn't seem to have a warrior's logic though. Onimi? that guy was a strategist. Not disagreeing with the point in general, just want to point out that the Vong couldn't always be counted on to have a hammer's mentality, because the driving mind behind the invasion didn't have that mentality.

Originally posted by truejedi
the leader of the Vong didn't seem to have a warrior's logic though. Onimi? that guy was a strategist. Not disagreeing with the point in general, just want to point out that the Vong couldn't always be counted on to have a hammer's mentality, because the driving mind behind the invasion didn't have that mentality.

Remember that Onimi had to work within the bounds of society- you can't make a microwave get online, and you can't make a warrior society strike with as much cunning as the sith. It can be shaped by his conniving mind, but he has to maintain credibility. Imagine if a gangsta got on a star wars forum... he'd get laughed out of the hood and off the message boards.

hey, don't bring BOOG into this!

Gideon, I didn't understand the wording of your argument. Half the time it seems like it's supporting what I'm saying.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I see, so they hated someone so badly they made him emperor makes a hella sense

I see you're a little ignorant about the storyline. They made him emperor because they knew he would get assassinated.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Even after the Emperor died three times, two Death Stars had been destroyed, a Galaxy Gun, two Eclipses and several Sovereigns had been annihilated, and the Imperial chain of Command had been shattered, they still didn't attack. Gideon has sourced this multiple times in previous and this argument refer back to them if you must.

Yet the Empire had the ability to build Eclipse ships in only a few months. The same with Sovereign's, World Devastators, and the Galaxy Gun. Industry is where the Empire truly shined.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
What other "huge" governments were there that weren't enslaved by the Empire. All shipyards were under their jurisdiction, and had some Imperial presence even though they also sported their own fleets i.e KDY.

The Hapans. And the Yevatha. The Hutts. The New Republic. The Chiss. Should I go on? There shipyards were definitely not all under Imperial jurisdiction. Get your facts strait.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
The bombardment of three Venators did not scratch its hull. And it had hundreds of Turbolaser batteries.

Wow. Three Venators. We already know that a SINGLE ISD has the equivalent of 180 pre-Empire turbolasers. The Vong Miid Ro'ik, which a rather common in the Vong fleet, are even more powerful.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
The CIS had the production capabilities to produce millions of warships, and quintillion of battle droids. Their primary ability to produce fleets came from KDY which is how the Republic mangaged to produce thousands of Venators in like a year, they have the capacity to build superweapons as well i.e. the Eclipse and dozens of SSDs. May I add the Jedi Order as I said at the start of this thread have access to KDY

We already know those quotes are just as bullshit as the 3 million clones figure. The CIS has the ability to produce the Eclipse and ISD's? Nope.

Well, not that they didn't have the materials for it, but the blueprints and designs... 'nother story.

The Confederacy had both.

Count Dooku and the Geonosians were planning to build a proto-Death Star quite literally on the very first day on the job.

Originally posted by truejedi
hey, don't bring BOOG into this!

Who said anything about BOOG?

*Whistles*

Originally posted by Gideon
The Confederacy had both.

Count Dooku and the Geonosians were planning to build a proto-Death Star quite literally on the very first day on the job. Yeah, but I don't think they had the Eclipse/Sovereign/ISD/SSD/World Devestator/Sun Crusher/Galaxy Gun plans. But if they did that'd be sweeeet.





And Red, stop tormenting BOOG's name. He's dead now. Killed in a shoot-out with Star Trek fans from the West Si'ede.

I didn't know that. He's (was) on ignore- I think I'll just mosey on over to the ST Forum to see what I can find.

Jesus you guys- Can't even give me a heads up that he left...

PS: You are a liar. BOOG has never post...

Damn. I still can't identify your humor when I'm tired. You should put it in neon green, or blue, or red, or some other color so that I can locate it. Still, he hasn't posted for a while, so I guess we win. No, everyone wins.

Originally posted by Gideon
The Confederacy had both.

Count Dooku and the Geonosians were planning to build a proto-Death Star quite literally on the very first day on the job.

Wow, a prototype Death Star. The Hutts basically did the same thing. They couldn't have produced anything nearly as fast as the Empire, or as advanced stuff (like the Eclipse, Sovereigns, Galaxy Gun, ect.).

Wow. Three Venators. We already know that a SINGLE ISD has the equivalent of 180 pre-Empire turbolasers. The Vong Miid Ro'ik, which a rather common in the Vong fleet, are even more powerful.



We already know those quotes are just as bullshit as the 3 million clones figure. The CIS has the ability to produce the Eclipse and ISD's? Nope.

Even so their are easier ways to assassinate someone

Play FOC you'll find that the Eclipse has been under construction at least since the Battle of Yavin, logic dictates that the Eclipse II was likely under construction since a bit after that. It is you who seems ignorant of these superweapons
The Hutts were Imperial allies, as their is no evidence that their alliance with the Republic was broken after it became the Empire. The New Republic did not exist whilst the Empire did at its height. The Chiss were undiscovered, as were the Hapans, I'll give you that, however the Yevetha were under the jurisdiction of the Empire, as their was a Type-II shipyard in orbit around their homeworld.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Wow, a prototype Death Star.

Your sarcasm is misplaced.



They built a superlaser mimicking the Death Star's potency. The designs given to Dooku were for an exact replica of the space station eventually constructed by Moff Tarkin.

Not to mention that the Hutts were an extremely powerful consortium and had the services of Bevel Lemelisk. Your delusion that only the Empire could have designed superweapons is rather stupid, since the Ratakans and "architects" that designed Centerpoint Station managed to do so as well -- and their resources and technology are a far cry from the Empire's own.



If they built a Death Star and pioneered use of a gigantic ion cannon, I'm inclined to disagree. Would their technology, numbers, and resources be on par with the Empire's as a whole? No. The Empire is much more powerful than the Confederacy, but that does not mean that the CIS is incapable of performing similar feats.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Wow. Three Venators. We already know that a SINGLE ISD has the equivalent of 180 pre-Empire turbolasers. The Vong Miid Ro'ik, which a rather common in the Vong fleet, are even more powerful.

We already know those quotes are just as bullshit as the 3 million clones figure. The CIS has the ability to produce the Eclipse and ISD's? Nope.

? Did you just quote me on accident?

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Even so their are easier ways to assassinate someone

That was still the method they chose. Mainly it was a way for all of them to keep their hands clean.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Play FOC you'll find that the Eclipse has been under construction at least since the Battle of Yavin, logic dictates that the Eclipse II was likely under construction since a bit after that. It is you who seems ignorant of these superweapons

Yes but we also know that the Eclipse ships would have been under low priority during that time. The second Death Star was about sixty percent completed in SIX MONTHS.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
The Hutts were Imperial allies, as their is no evidence that their alliance with the Republic was broken after it became the Empire. The New Republic did not exist whilst the Empire did at its height. The Chiss were undiscovered, as were the Hapans, I'll give you that, however the Yevetha were under the jurisdiction of the Empire, as their was a Type-II shipyard in orbit around their homeworld.

You aren't looking at it from the Vong POV. They had throughly scouted the galaxy and knew pretty well who they would be fighting. What groups we well known to the Core were not necessarily all the Vong knew about. Plus, the Chiss were not entirely unknown, neither were the Hapans. They just weren't common knowledge to the average citizen. The Chiss encountered the Vong as early as 27 BBY (Admiral Ar'lanai fought them).





Originally posted by Gideon
They built a superlaser mimicking the Death Star's potency. The designs given to Dooku were for an exact replica of the space station eventually constructed by Moff Tarkin.

Those designs came from Dooku, who had given them previously to the Geonosians for modifications. Raith Sienar and Tarkin had the plans before the CIS or Genosians ever did. And note that the technology to create the Death Star still didn't exist, as after the Clone Wars, during the battle of Mygeeto, the 501st recovered the power crystals to help power the Death Star. And even still, the actual designed had to be ironed out for years after the CIS collapsed in the Maw installation by Bevel Lemelisk, Tol Sivran, and Qwi Xux.

So no, the CIS could not have created the Death Star.

Originally posted by Gideon
Not to mention that the Hutts were an extremely powerful consortium and had the services of Bevel Lemelisk. Your delusion that only the Empire could have designed superweapons is rather stupid, since the Ratakans and "architects" that designed Centerpoint Station managed to do so as well -- and their resources and technology are a far cry from the Empire's own.

The Hutts were extremely powerful and they still were torn apart by the Vong very quickly while the Vong were fighting the New Republic, Empire, Chiss, Hapans, Yevetha (who are at least as powerful as the Hutts), and the Ssi-Ruuk (they might actually have not engaged the Ssi-Ruuk yet, I'm not sure).

The point remains though, that the CIS did not have anywhere near that level of technology or industry to yet create a Death Star, or any superweapon approaching that level. That one ship is no where near as powerful.

Originally posted by Gideon
If they built a Death Star and pioneered use of a gigantic ion cannon, I'm inclined to disagree. Would their technology, numbers, and resources be on par with the Empire's as a whole? No. The Empire is much more powerful than the Confederacy, but that does not mean that the CIS is incapable of performing similar feats.

WTF Gideon. The CIS NEVER built a Death Star. They didn't even have complete plans. And they had a ship with a big ion canon. So what? They had one and apparently lacked the ability to rebuild it or something like it, as the next strongest ship they had was no where near as powerful. It topped the Venators, but not by a huge amount. Seeing as a single Miid Roik is at least nine times stronger than a Venator, the strongest ship the CIS can produce next to the Malevolence would get raped by a single, common, Vong capital ship.

Seriously, do you honestly think the CIS would win over the Vong, Gideon?

Wouldn't the CIS driods be made a non-factor here because they wouldn't be able to adapt to the dovin basals?

Um....bump.

Why bump?

He's not done talking about it, but doesn't want to beat a dead horse by rephrasing his arguments.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
He's not done talking about it, but doesn't want to beat a dead horse by rephrasing his arguments.

Maybe his opponents gave up.

That'd be a first, lol.

Yeah, they usually beat him. SNAP!

Originally posted by Lucien A
Yeah, but I don't think they had the Eclipse/Sovereign/ISD/SSD/World Devestator/Sun Crusher/Galaxy Gun plans. But if they did that'd be sweeeet.





And Red, stop tormenting BOOG's name. He's dead now. Killed in a shoot-out with Star Trek fans from the West Si'ede.
Well they would considering all of those were built by KDY, or were designed by KDY, and I specifically said at the start that the Jedi start with KDY and all of its subsidiaries

So are you going to get back to the debate or not, Mizukage?

And in relation to the post you just made, having KDY doesn't give them access to the aforementioned superweapons because KDY didn't have them or the ability to create them as of the pre-Empire time period. DUH!