Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Itachi says that Kisame won't beat Kakashi, but I think he could beat Kakashi because even Gai struggled to beat him at 30% chakra.

What do you think, who wins?

Water conducts electricity.

Itachi said that Kisame would win but might suffer some unneeded injuries.

Kisame is around Kakashi's speed level.

He is much stronger, and is better at Taijutsu.

His chakra reserves are far greater.

He has more powerful ninjutsu IMO.

And Water may conduct electricity...But what will that do? If he chidori's the water, his hand will be in it, which would also fry Kakashi...

And Kisame himself is not covered in water.

Kisame

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Itachi said that Kisame would win but might suffer some unneeded injuries.

Kisame is around Kakashi's speed level.

He is much stronger, and is better at Taijutsu.

His chakra reserves are far greater.

He has more powerful ninjutsu IMO.

And Water may conduct electricity...But what will that do? If he chidori's the water, his hand will be in it, which would also fry Kakashi...

And Kisame himself is not covered in water.

Co-sign.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
And Water may conduct electricity...But what will that do? If he chidori's the water, his hand will be in it, which would also fry Kakashi...

If the man can literally cover his hand in lightning and not be affected by it, being covered in water will hardly matter. Not hardly. It won't. The only thing water and conductors do is provide a medium for the electricity to travel through. If the lightning is already touching Kakashi's body and it does not harm him than him being covered in water will not matter. It's safe to say that, because of that fact, he is resistant to his own lightning. Irrelevant though because as we've seen Kakashi's raikiri can be used in a long range form.



You don't have to be. His feet touching it is all that's necessary.

i think when sasuke use chidori on himself to defuse the c4 bomb he says that it hurts him..doesn't that means he's not imune to his own lightning??

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
If the man can literally cover his hand in lightning and not be affected by it, being covered in water will hardly matter. Not hardly. It won't. The only thing water and conductors do is provide a medium for the electricity to travel through. If the lightning is already touching Kakashi's body and it does not harm him than him being covered in water will not matter. It's safe to say that, because of that fact, he is resistant to his own lightning. Irrelevant though because as we've seen Kakashi's raikiri can be used in a long range form.



You don't have to be. His feet touching it is all that's necessary. He can control the current of the lightning which is formed by his own chakra due to his own chakra control. The lightning will still hurt him. Sasuke can shoot fireballs out of his mouth. Should we assume that Sasuke is immune to fire? Going by that, Sasuke should be able to tank Amaterasu since his eye shoots out Amaterasu, but IIRC this is false. There is no proof that says that he can keep himself unharmed when the water conducts the electricity in his hand, which will allow the electricity to travel through the water and to Kakashi from all sides. Also, Kakashi has to use his hands to form Raikiri. He uses them to help form it in his hands. Matter of fact, all Chidori variants I can think of are handled and controlled by the hands. We should not assume his control is so immense that he can control the lightning to keep it from harming him when it touches his whole body. And we have seen Kakashi use Raikiri in one long range form...Which if both are above the water will just mean Kisame will have to jump to dodge it. Not that hard. If Kakashi is below the water like Gai was...Kakashi just electrocutes himself. And the electrocution would at least by somewhat reduced since it is not entering Kisame's body from all possible sides and angles, and the only single way it could enter is the bottom of his feet, which are covered by rubber sandals, which are insulators. And...How will Kakashi do all this so quickly when Kisame, who is largely a Taijutsu user, will be pressing the offense? And if Kakashi is underwater, Water Shark jutsu ftw.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
He can control the current of the lightning which is formed by his own chakra due to his own chakra control.

If it's formed by his own chakra and he has complete control than he can direct it so that it does not affect his own body. If he can keep it from hurting him when it is covering his hand in the air, he can do the same in the water. Electricity doesn't work in such a way that it actually acts different in water, it just travels distances easier. Having greater range wouldn't affect Kakashi. You seem to think that water has this magical ability to disrupt things? You use the same logic with Gaara's sand. There is no reason to think that water, by itself, would disrupt anyone's control over anything unless the ease with which they control something depends on the weight, or the composition remaining packed. Neither have to do with electricity.



Most sandals made in the Japanese feudal-esque era are made of leather, and even then, sneakers which are largely made of rubber do not insulate well because there simply isn't enough of it. People still get shocked by electrified puddles wearing sneakers, and if sneakers do not insulate well than rubber sandals certainly have no chance, especially considering they're open toed and there's a great chance his toes can touch the water or get wet. If they are made of rubber, prove it.

And Kakashi can also just use lightning clones. He doesn't even have to be near the water.




Prove that Kisame will be able to move faster than post-timeskip /w a more matured Sharingan can. And if Kakashi were to use a lightning clone and Kisame hit it, if he's on the water he'll be shocked and if he's not the sword, which is metal, which act as a lightning rod and fry him as well. Even if it doesn't; as we've seen the blast can envelop a full person, and Kisame doesn't have the luxury of a nigh invincible jutsu negating shield like the Pein clone does.

In which case Kakashi will just kill both of them, if necessary.



He can still tag him with electricity.

power probably goes to kisame, skill is kinda even, kakashi though imo wins in the intelligence/sneakiness portion.

imo the mangekyo sharingan makes it hard to judge the winner, probably kakashi would get beat up pretty badly but then use his time/space rape technique to borderline kill kisame... could happen right?

though if kisame picked up anything on sharingan users seeing that he was a long time partner of itachi, maybe he will make sure to end it quickly or just knows a way to get out of genjutsu fast.

Kisame only needed to swing Samehada once and he had absorbed -all- of Naruto's chakra. I think it's reason enough to believe that pure chakra/lightning attacks like chidori would be absorbed as well.

Kakashi's only real bet is genjutsu.

By that logic he should absorb the water too, since it's created by chakra. I think Samaheda can absorb pure chakra but not any form of chakra, like raiton or suiton.


And even if he could you act as if A) He could see the electricity. and B) He can react fast enough. Considering electric current is pretty much invisible in water, travels through water faster than sound, much faster than sound, he would hardly have time to react at all.

EDIT-

And as for the MS, IMO it wouldn't be very useful in this fight, or in much fights unless Kakashi has back-up. It requires too much warm-up time and concentration to use in a real combat situation by himself.

Though as we've seen Kakashi has a knack for copying and negating water jutsu, it seems. Look at what happened when Kisame tried the water dragon at Konoha.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f122/blaxican_templar/KakashiSig.jpg

313

I swear I'll make you one eventually DJ.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
By that logic he should absorb the water too, since it's created by chakra. I think Samaheda can absorb pure chakra but not any form of chakra, like raiton or suiton.


And even if he could you act as if A) He could see the electricity. and B) He can react fast enough. Considering electric current is pretty much invisible in water, travels through water faster than sound, much faster than sound, he would hardly have time to react at all.

EDIT-

And as for the MS, IMO it wouldn't be very useful in this fight, or in much fights unless Kakashi has back-up. It requires too much warm-up time and concentration to use in a real combat situation by himself.

Though as we've seen Kakashi has a knack for copying and negating water jutsu, it seems. Look at what happened when Kisame tried the water dragon at Konoha.

- I meant clearly visible techniques like chidori and the attack against pain.
- Kisame doesn't create the water, he manipulates it. It would be the same if Kakashi used Kirin.
-Since when was Kakashi faster than Kisame? Kisame was dominating Gai and could still react to Gai in 6 gates (Just not block fast enough)
- You don't know how fast Kisame reacts.
- Kakashi has never negated water techniques, he has countered them. This is completely different and Kakashi would need chakra to do so, something Kisame has much more of.
- Kisame used shark missile, not water dragon.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
If it's formed by his own chakra and he has complete control than he can direct it so that it does not affect his own body. If he can keep it from hurting him when it is covering his hand in the air, he can do the same in the water. Electricity doesn't work in such a way that it actually acts different in water, it just travels distances easier. Having greater range wouldn't affect Kakashi. You seem to think that water has this magical ability to disrupt things? You use the same logic with Gaara's sand. There is no reason to think that water, by itself, would disrupt anyone's control over anything unless the ease with which they control something depends on the weight, or the composition remaining packed. Neither have to do with electricity.



Most sandals made in the Japanese feudal-esque era are made of leather, and even then, sneakers which are largely made of rubber do not insulate well because there simply isn't enough of it. People still get shocked by electrified puddles wearing sneakers, and if sneakers do not insulate well than rubber sandals certainly have no chance, especially considering they're open toed and there's a great chance his toes can touch the water or get wet. If they are made of rubber, prove it.

And Kakashi can also just use lightning clones. He doesn't even have to be near the water.




Prove that Kisame will be able to move faster than post-timeskip /w a more matured Sharingan can. And if Kakashi were to use a lightning clone and Kisame hit it, if he's on the water he'll be shocked and if he's not the sword, which is metal, which act as a lightning rod and fry him as well. Even if it doesn't; as we've seen the blast can envelop a full person, and Kisame doesn't have the luxury of a nigh invincible jutsu negating shield like the Pein clone does.

In which case Kakashi will just kill both of them, if necessary.



He can still tag him with electricity. 1. But if his Chidori is conducted by the water, it would not longer even be Chidori at all, it would just be currents of electricity traveling through the water. And for Kakashi to be able to react and exert control over an Omnidirectional current of electricity in time, he would need reflexes that are much faster than sound as you put it. Reflexes Kakashi does not have. And it does not cover his hand, he holds it in the palm of his hand by EXERTING chakra control in the palm of his hand. Also, another key point I would like to bring up is that Kakashi does not even have the required chakra levels to do so, he can only do Chidori four times in a single day. He would need more than four times the amount of chakra to control the lightning to keep it from harming him, in other words, what you are suggesting is impossible. Water wouldn't disrupt it, Kakashi's insufficient chakra reserves, his inadequate reflexes, and the very fact that he has never done such a feat before forces me to believe he can't do it. And the Gaara's sand thing was due to the fact that sand breaks apart and reverts to mud when wet.

2. ...I don't know if you noticed, but Narutoverse is not really feudal Japan, nor is it even based on it, hence the TVs, fridges, lack of guns, and t3h majik. And you are absolutely right, they won't be a great insulator, a high enough charge can overpower any insulator. But that combined with Kisame's durability should allow him to live.

Going by that, Kisame just uses water clones the whole fight. I mean, it is not like Kisame is an idiot, sure, he is a brute, but he is one of the most skilled ninjas alive, and was able to react to Gai's actions, I doubt he won't see Kakashi create a lightning clone. Hell, it was PIS that Pain was caught with it, considering the enhanced perception and the ability to track chakra that Rinnegan gives Pain.

3. Kakashi's Sharingan is only more "matured" when Mangekyo, which drains Kakashi severely. And Kakashi has not proven to have gotten any faster IMO. Also, Kisame fought and reacted to Gai. Who is much faster than Kakashi. Kisame's sword isn't metal. It is made from living scales. Which eat chakra. Which lightning clones are made of. Hell, it ate Kyuubi chakra, the most powerful form of chakra in the series thus far. Why would it not eat Kakashi's chakra? And...Kisame can will the sword to eat chakra or not. Otherwise it would be feeding on Kisame's own.

4. Thus electrocuting himself, while Kisame sees Kakashi forming the Chidori and jumps.

Oh yeah and Blax, I decided that I would rather have a Shin Gouki sig...But I wouldn't want you to make it unless I found the pic first.

...And is it just me, or has my vocabulary signifigantly improved since I joined KMC?

I mean...My English teacher considers me the brightest student in terms of grammar and sentence structure in my class, and this really started occurring since I started posting on KMC. mmm

Or maybe I'm just a fat queer who likes donuts? mmm

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Oh yeah and Blax, I decided that I would rather have a Shin Gouki sig...But I wouldn't want you to make it unless I found the pic first.

...And is it just me, or has my vocabulary signifigantly improved since I joined KMC?

I mean...My English teacher considers me the brightest student in terms of grammar and sentence structure in my class, and this really started occurring since I started posting on KMC. mmm

Or maybe I'm just a fat queer who likes donuts? mmm i'm not touching that one.

Itachi said that Kisame would win but might suffer some unneeded injuries.

Kisame is around Kakashi's speed level.

He is much stronger, and is better at Taijutsu.

His chakra reserves are far greater.

He has more powerful ninjutsu IMO.

And Water may conduct electricity...But what will that do? If he chidori's the water, his hand will be in it, which would also fry Kakashi...

And Kisame himself is not covered in water.


Daxx did your mom drop you on the head? Sje must have. You make the worse replys of anbody here. Just go already. Kakashi is much better at Ninjutsu than Kisame. They both have 9 in Taijutsu based on their stats. Kakashi is better at Genjutsu and is much smarter as well.

Having 30 percent chakra only means he wont be able to do as many powerful moves before his chakra runs low. It has nothing to do with hoer powerful of a ninja he is. As i said in another post. Itachi has a poor chakra reserve according to their ninja stats but is Kisame more poweful than he is? Kisame has more charkra than any Akatski member but is he the most poweful?

His swords ability to eat chakra is a none factor as well. If it was so effective then he would be able to beat Jiraiya then. Why not swing it once and asorb all of Jiraiyas chakra and then Itachi and himself would been able to beat Jiraiya and took Naruto away.

Itachi also never said Kakashi could beat Kakashi. He said " If you go at it with that man it wont be with out cost. Not there is no way Kisame would win. Based on you peoples flawed logic Kisame would beat Kakashi because Kisame is stronger than Zabuza and basiaclly Zabuza had Kakashi beat with one kick.

Kakashi would have the advantage since Kisame knows the " Hidden Mist Jutsu " But the show never stated he could track a opponent by the sound they make like Zabuza could. In a close range fight Kakashi's Genjutsu would be too much for Kisame just like it was for Zabuza. The only difference would be that Haku wouldnt be there to same him.

Originally posted by big juggy man
Itachi said that Kisame would win but might suffer some unneeded injuries.

Kisame is around Kakashi's speed level.



Itachi didn't say that, he said his way is inefficient.

No way Kisame is at Kakashi speed level.

Originally posted by big juggy man
Daxx did your mom drop you on the head? Sje must have. You make the worse replys of anbody here. Just go already. Kakashi is much better at Ninjutsu than Kisame. They both have 9 in Taijutsu based on their stats. Kakashi is better at Genjutsu and is much smarter as well.

Having 30 percent chakra only means he wont be able to do as many powerful moves before his chakra runs low. It has nothing to do with hoer powerful of a ninja he is. As i said in another post. Itachi has a poor chakra reserve according to their ninja stats but is Kisame more poweful than he is? Kisame has more charkra than any Akatski member but is he the most poweful?

His swords ability to eat chakra is a none factor as well. If it was so effective then he would be able to beat Jiraiya then. Why not swing it once and asorb all of Jiraiyas chakra and then Itachi and himself would been able to beat Jiraiya and took Naruto away.

Itachi also never said Kakashi could beat Kakashi. He said " If you go at it with that man it wont be with out cost. Not there is no way Kisame would win. Based on you peoples flawed logic Kisame would beat Kakashi because Kisame is stronger than Zabuza and basiaclly Zabuza had Kakashi beat with one kick.

Kakashi would have the advantage since Kisame knows the " Hidden Mist Jutsu " But the show never stated he could track a opponent by the sound they make like Zabuza could. In a close range fight Kakashi's Genjutsu would be too much for Kisame just like it was for Zabuza. The only difference would be that Haku wouldnt be there to same him. Look man you need to ease up on the insults everytime I make a post. I mean, I know that the fact that you have yet to beat me or anyone on this site in a debate, and the obvious superiority my intelligence holds over your own must put your panties in a bit of a twist, but just chill. Cutting youself works. Remember though, across the river not up the stream.

Idiot.

1. Kakashi is much better at Ninjutsu than Kisame? Based on what? Kisame is better at Ninjutsu than Zabuza, who was Kakashi's equal. What does that say? And by those funny things called feats Kisame's Taijutsu is better, mostly cause of his, you know, sword. He was able to fight with Gai. The most skilled Taijutsu user in the series I can think of. Kakashi is better at Genjutsu yeah. But Genjutsu is nothing more than an illusion made from chakra. What does Samehade absorb? Oh yeah. Chakra.

2. Let me tell you what having less chakra means. It means you have less stamina. It means you cannot put as much power into your jutsu. It means you cannot amp your physical abilities as much(See: Tsunade). Chakra is a big deal. And Kisame has more chakra than Kakashi at 30% power. Whoa. And Itachi wouldn't even be HALF as powerful without the cheap powers Mangekyo Sharingan provides.

3. So based on what he "should of" done his sword's abilities must be disreguarded? And you say my logic sucks? There is a little thing called "PIS" that exists first of all, and second of all, ever consider Jiraiya would have ways to counter it? And I was not under the impression Kisame could just take someone's chakra when they were not releasing it, as normally it is in their body. He would have to stab them first.

4. Zabuza IIRC did cause Kakashi trouble. Kisame is like a Zabuza on steroids.

5. I never once mentioned the Hidden Mist Jutsu. And if you are talking about using the Sharingan to hypnotize him, just don't look directly in the eyes.

didnt they already fight (srry not a huge naruto fan)didnt kakashi win??

They didn't really fight, Kisame used a water jutsu against Asuma I think and then Kakashi blocked it with one of his own.

oo thats right i forgot he used water jutsu

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Itachi said that Kisame would win but might suffer some unneeded injuries.

Kisame is around Kakashi's speed level.

He is much stronger, and is better at Taijutsu.

His chakra reserves are far greater.

He has more powerful ninjutsu IMO.

And Water may conduct electricity...But what will that do? If he chidori's the water, his hand will be in it, which would also fry Kakashi...

And Kisame himself is not covered in water.

1. the speed level isnt that different, but i still think kakashi beats him in speed.

2. agreed, but his sharingan can just copy it, which puts kisame at no advantage in this category.

3.Definitely

4. How the hell can he have more powerful ninjutsu? cant kakashi just copy it? so kakashi has all of kisames moves plus his own, which is better than kisames.

and about the water conduct thing.. hes right if he can have electricity around his hand without it doing anything then putting water on it would change absolutely nothing IMO. Sharingan kinda made the difference in this fight, for kakashi would win.

How do you reckon Kakashi will copy techniques that rely on Kisame's physique? I don't see sharingan letting Kakashi spew out an entire lake of water.....

Originally posted by Bada's Palin
How do you reckon Kakashi will copy techniques that rely on Kisame's physique? I don't see sharingan letting Kakashi spew out an entire lake of water.....

Some ninjutsu's Kakashi can't copy, like Gaara's sand. Still I will take Kakashi in a fight over Kakashi.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Oh yeah and Blax, I decided that I would rather have a Shin Gouki sig...But I wouldn't want you to make it unless I found the pic first.

...And is it just me, or has my vocabulary signifigantly improved since I joined KMC?

I mean...My English teacher considers me the brightest student in terms of grammar and sentence structure in my class, and this really started occurring since I started posting on KMC. mmm

Or maybe I'm just a fat queer who likes donuts? mmm
id say the former just kidding DJ we lov ya.

and yea you sound pretty smart. and BP not all of kisames attacks will rely on his physique, and that only includes ninjutsu. taijutsu has nothing to do with physique, and since kakashis faster copying his taijutsu should be no problem.

Originally posted by k1Lla441

and yea you sound pretty smart. and BP not all of kisames attacks will rely on his physique, and that only includes ninjutsu. taijutsu has nothing to do with physique, and since kakashis faster copying his taijutsu should be no problem.

And not just that, but Kakashi can create a jutsu of Kisame's before Kisame can.

Originally posted by k1Lla441
1. the speed level isnt that different, but i still think kakashi beats him in speed.

2. agreed, but his sharingan can just copy it, which puts kisame at no advantage in this category.

3.Definitely

4. How the hell can he have more powerful ninjutsu? cant kakashi just copy it? so kakashi has all of kisames moves plus his own, which is better than kisames.

and about the water conduct thing.. hes right if he can have electricity around his hand without it doing anything then putting water on it would change absolutely nothing IMO. Sharingan kinda made the difference in this fight, for kakashi would win. 1. I honestly doubt it. Kisame was able to run quickly underground tunneling through Earth for Christ's sake...

2. No he can't. Much of Kisame's Taijutsu relies on his phenomenol strength and speed, along with his sword.

3. Yayz.

4. Alot of Kisame's jutsus DO in fact require Kisame's unique biological nature, and Kisame, having probably ten times as much chakra as Kakashi has or more, can use the techniques with more chakra packed in them.

I already explained this. Kakashi doesn't have the reflexes, chakra control, or chakra reserves to pull such a feat off.

but i thawt kakashi wud over power kisame with sharigan.. wudnt that increase his reflexes and abilities to maximum levels???? even to over power kisame

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. I honestly doubt it. Kisame was able to run quickly underground tunneling through Earth for Christ's sake...

2. No he can't. Much of Kisame's Taijutsu relies on his phenomenol strength and speed, along with his sword.

3. Yayz.

4. Alot of Kisame's jutsus DO in fact require Kisame's unique biological nature, and Kisame, having probably ten times as much chakra as Kakashi has or more, can use the techniques with more chakra packed in them.

I already explained this. Kakashi doesn't have the reflexes, chakra control, or chakra reserves to pull such a feat off.
1. that has a lot do with strength let alone speed. if kakashi isnt strong enough to tunnel underground, it doesnt make him slow, just not strong.

2. Eh, maybe i shouldve researched that a little more. but he still can copy some of his techniques.

3.Finally, a civilized arguemant

What do you mean reflexes?? IMO kakashi has enough skill and reflexes to definetely pull it off. first you had a a valid reason that he couldnt do it, now you saying that he cant do it because you think hes not skilled enough? And if kisame has a "unique" physique, then looking at how much bulkier and bigger he is than kakashi i seriously doubt that he can be faster than him.

yeah,your right.He cant be faster

Originally posted by k1Lla441
1. that has a lot do with strength let alone speed. if kakashi isnt strong enough to tunnel underground, it doesnt make him slow, just not strong.

2. Eh, maybe i shouldve researched that a little more. but he still can copy some of his techniques.

3.Finally, a civilized arguemant

What do you mean reflexes?? IMO kakashi has enough skill and reflexes to definetely pull it off. first you had a a valid reason that he couldnt do it, now you saying that he cant do it because you think hes not skilled enough? And if kisame has a "unique" physique, then looking at how much bulkier and bigger he is than kakashi i seriously doubt that he can be faster than him. 1. Sure, it required strength, as well as speed. And he had speed to fight Gai, who is among the fastest in Naruto.

2. Some, sure, but not all, hell, not even most.

3. Once he uses Chidori, the current would spread at speeds much faster than sound through the water, also around Kakashi's body. Kisame has a unique physique in that he is a shark dude lol...He can spit huge quantities of water from his mouth.

And size has nothing to do with speed...If it does, Chiyo must have been a speed demon. Chick ain't even five feet tall.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Sure, it required strength, as well as speed. And he had speed to fight Gai, who is among the fastest in Naruto.

2. Some, sure, but not all, hell, not even most.

3. Once he uses Chidori, the current would spread at speeds much faster than sound through the water, also around Kakashi's body. Kisame has a unique physique in that he is a shark dude lol...He can spit huge quantities of water from his mouth.

And size has nothing to do with speed...If it does, Chiyo must have been a speed demon. Chick ain't even five feet tall.