Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Hans never met John McClane and decides to rob Gotham Enterprises instead of Nakatomi Tower. Ledgers Joker deduced Batmans identity and wants to destroy Wayne Enterprises to create economic anarchy, and has full support of the Gotham mob. Will Hans be able to make off with any valuable equipment or somesuch before the Joker gets him? Hans is fully prepped, whatever that means.

Will Hans get some equipment? Maybe, not like the Joker cares.

Will Hans leave the building alive? Hell no.

Hans is fully prepped in your scenario - except he's only prepped for police/swat/LAPD cop, and not someone like the Joker.

To be fair, my initial scenario didn't make much sense. Why would the mob support theJoker when they don't have to? Also, the only reason Hans lost in Die Hard was because he underestimated John McClanes resourcefulness. At the time of TDK, The Joker was active in Gotham for about six months. Hans seemed intelligent enough to prep against such a threat.

Originally posted by Placidity
Hans is fully prepped in your scenario - except he's only prepped for police/swat/LAPD cop, and not someone like the Joker.

Because a knife, bit of steel pipe, some grenades and a pencil are well above and beyond anything the S.W.A.T. team could potentially use.

I think Hans is cooler but the Joker is essentially a more eccentric Hans. He is probably also smarter. Id say Joker wins every time.

Originally posted by Robtard
Because a knife, bit of steel pipe, some grenades and a pencil are well above and beyond anything the S.W.A.T. team could potentially use.

If you think I believe the Joker is dangerous because he has a knife/grenades then you've mistaken.

The Joker is dangerous because of his prep and intellect. That's how he survives so long in the film. Without the Batman, he would still be wreaking havoc in Gotham. and no SWAT team would stop him because he is prepared, not because he is an efficient fighter.

Presumably, he wouldn't have nearly as much equipment to work with if Batman didn't exist, because there is no reason to trust the Joker.

Well, IMO, he would find a way to manipulate others, I think it's definitely not beyond him. Kinda like how he did that to the bank robbers at the start, but obviously he would need to do it on a larger scale.

"He would find a way" type of argument doesn't cut it, Hans Gruber could also just "find a way" to win, see.

Originally posted by Robtard
"He would find a way" type of argument doesn't cut it, Hans Gruber could also just "find a way" to win, see.

I wasn't even saying that in relation to Joker vs Hans. If you read it again it was about how Joker would manage IF Batman didn't exist, which isn't part of this scenario.

Plus I said he would find a way to manipulate others, meaning he is manipulative, as shown in the movie. I did NOT simply say, yeah he's the joker, he'll just find a way to win. I provided an example that he has done it before in the film to the robbers. And another example is how he recruited people who were from the psychiatric hospitals. Again, I'll emphasize that what I was talking about is not related to Joker vs Hans, rather how Joker would operate if Batman didn't exist.


On another note, most of the time these types of fights WILL end up with just a "He would find a way" argument that is dressed up as something else.

I am embarrassed for all of you. You left out the Clay factor. Two words: William Clay. You see, there will be a point where The Joker and Hans will come face to face in a corridor of the building. The Joker won't know it is Hans, because that is how Hans rolls, he keeps his identity secret and assumes the name 'Bill Clay.' Now, John McClane would have figured it out, he would have noticed the way Hans held a cigarette that something was fishy, the Joker however would not notice such a thing since he is too self absorbed and consumed with his own theatrics. I see the Joker actually giving Hans a pencil, as John McClane gave Hans a gun, an unloaded gun of course since McClane was aware of Bill Clay's true identity. However, in the Joker instance, as soon as the Joker turns around to lead Bill Clay, a.k.a. Hans Gruber out of the corridor, Hans would stab the Joker in the neck, killing him. Hans would then grab the money and sneak out the back door.

Hans Gruber ftw.

Only if Joker met "Bill Clay" in the building, Joker would still just kill him.

Hans was the main villain of one of the best action movies in history.
He can't lose.

Hans got outsmarted by NY police officer.

Joker ftw.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Hans got outsmarted by NY police officer.

Joker ftw.