Rahm Kota vs Qui-Gon Jinn

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skywalker833
Who wins?

1. Sabers

2. Force

3. All-out

truejedi
i don't believe Kohta was a master... so i'll go Jinn, easily.

skywalker833
actually he was. He was also a general in the clone wars, and was very powerful in the force.

truejedi
i know who he was: i just was thinking he wasn't a master. But you're right, he was. I still pick Jinn. Kohta's different showings against force users was nigh unto pathetic.

Red Nemesis
Originally posted by truejedi
i know who he was: i just was thinking he wasn't a master. But you're right, he was. I still pick Jinn. Kohta's different showings against force users was nigh unto pathetic.

Ya know, Jinn's showings against enemy force users wasn't too good (Cough... Bisected by maul).








But yeah... Jinn takes all three.

truejedi
but Kohta's fights included a pretty decent showing against starkiller when starkiller was at his weakest, i bet we could compare THAT fight to Jinn's with Maul.

Then, he charges Vader, and gets thrown across the room before he reaches him.

He charges the emperor and gets the crap lightninged out of him without the emperor even taking his concentration off of Marek. pretty pathetic overall.

adventbleach111
I agree he could've at least gotten a hit on one of them

Mizukage Yoda
Kota gets pwnd and Jiin borows his master's expensive rancor leather boots and Vjun cloak and makes it a curbstomp

Lucien A
Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Ya know, Jinn's showings against enemy force users wasn't too good (Cough... Bisected by maul). Uh... Maul bisected by Kenobi, actually.

skywalker833
Originally posted by truejedi
but Kohta's fights included a pretty decent showing against starkiller when starkiller was at his weakest,
He wasn't at his weakest! That was practically a week from when he fought Shaak Ti. I don't think he can gain that much power in a week.

Red Nemesis
Originally posted by Lucien A
Uh... Maul bisected by Kenobi, actually.

You're right.

I meant he was impaled by Maul.

truejedi
Originally posted by skywalker833
He wasn't at his weakest! That was practically a week from when he fought Shaak Ti. I don't think he can gain that much power in a week.

he was improving throughout the entire game. Even against Shaak Ti, he was hardly at his peak. His peak would be considered right before he fought Vader... if he was one iota better against Ti than he was against Kohta, then he was still at his weakest against Kohta. What's your point? that he wasn't MUCH weaker then? hardly matters.

Mizukage Yoda
Originally posted by skywalker833
He wasn't at his weakest! That was practically a week from when he fought Shaak Ti. I don't think he can gain that much power in a week.
Proof? Game designers claim the story line spans several years

skywalker833
Do you have proof of that?
Besides, Kota put up a hell of a fight.

Lucien A
I think the game goes from 3BBY to 2BBY. And yeah, against Marek, who was just emerging. I think Jinn's got him beat.

Cpt. Valerian
Originally posted by skywalker833
Do you have proof of that?
Besides, Kota put up a hell of a fight.

Not from what we see in the game, he doesn't.

I don't know about the novel, though.

skywalker833
I am not saying that he would win, but he would put up a better fight than all u say.

1. Qui-Gon
2. Rahm Kota
3. Qui-Gon

Lucien A
Qui-Gon would lose in the Force? And Kota is pushed aside in the mythos to a game?

truejedi
Kohta put up a decent fight against Marek. Marek was surprised that Kohta could block his first force attacks. that's all. THen Kohta attacks Galen with a saber, tries his best to overpower him, and Marek notes that he, Galen is a superior fighter. Then Marek proceeds to up the ante and attacks with the force more relentlessly, and Kohta is defeated.

something i didn't know: supposedly you can't completly block a choke attack, you can only turn it back on your opponent, so that person is choked as well...

Gideon
Kota's a beast at deflection, for the record. When it came to Force use, Galen was getting embarrassed initially.

truejedi
i don't know about embarrassed, he just blocks the attacks. and laughs... which is kinda ironic, because he ends up getting played with by the force later in the duel... I'll post the fight i guess:




I'll stop right there, and say i don't see the embarrassment of which you spoke. In fact, from the apprentices viewpoint, it was quoted as not being embarrassment. The rest of the fight goes downhill for Kota, so i'm thinking you were referring to that passage.



I don't think that a fight the apprentice was that in control of really counts as a "hell of a fight"

besides, i repeat, Marek was at his weakest.

skywalker833
Are you kidding? That proves how long the duel was.

Lucien A
"How long" is not a translation of "Kota did good."

skywalker833
Actually, it kind of is. Usually a long duel means that it was pretty close.

Gideon
Originally posted by Lucien A
"How long" is not a translation of "Kota did good."

Now, I make room for the possibility that I could be mistaken, but I cannot seem to think of an instance where a lengthly duel is not an indicator of the skills and talents of both combatants, unless one party is toying with the other (which Marek was not).

The narrative depicts General Kota casually deflecting Marek's lightning one handed, while laughing, which left the apprentice rather angry, due no doubt to the fact that it was unexpected and executed with ease. When they clash blades, Kota merely ducks and "lazily" attempts a counterattack; he's not taking Marek seriously initially. Marek then attempts to telekinetically hurl Kota aside, but the general deflects that as well, prompting Marek to regard and attack the general "more cautiously."

Initially, yes, Kota was handling himself better than Marek. That the apprentice muses "he hadn't been humiliated" may or may not be true; he wasn't decimated or knocked aside, but his attempts to subdue the general were handled rather casually, which -- by the narrative -- initially pissed Marek off and then prompted him to reevaluate his strategy. To quote Marek: "the general was wily and strong and possessed some moves the apprentice had never seen before." As is the case with certain individuals, Marek attributes much of Kota's inability to defeat him to age. Hell, even when Marek attempts to use a Vader-esque surprise choke hold on Kota, the general deflects that, and Marek only comes out with the better hand because he was expecting (but could not prevent) the deflection, his lungs "full" of air to expire.

Suffice it to say that Kota performed excellently and seemed to lose more or less due to stamina. His technique and defenses seemed much better than Marek's and initially was not only doing better in combat with the constant deflection of energy, but also in mindset. It was Marek, on the other hand, who was initially knocked aside and made to get very angry.

truejedi
Kohta was never close to defeating the apprentice though. That's the problem. Plus, i'm going to call him neophyte Marek again.

And then ask this: Maybe the entire fight i posted is non-canon. WHy? because isn't the entire fight shown in cutscenes from TFU? if it is, that would be like a book contradicting a movie, so the book falls by the wayside. If there are breaks in the fight between cutscenes in TFU, the novel above would still be canon. I haven't played TFU myself, so i'm not sure. (watched the cutscenes, but i don't remember if it contains the entire fight or not)

Gideon
I appreciate the lawyer's approach to subvert and remove the novelization as a credible source, but General Kota is a boss -- the first boss -- in the game. Fighting him consists of gameplay, and so it's rather obvious that the duel is not seen entirely in the cutscene. Only the end move.

truejedi
okay, good deal, i actually prefer fights to be written out. I just had that thought the other day, that mebbe TFU novel was perhaps a poor source of canon.
thanks for answering that question.

skywalker833
I have only played the game, but I am going to get the novel this weekend. It didn't really show the fight except for the end, but kota was powerful with the force.

Darth Storm
jinn wald smash kota man!

Jinsoku Takai
Nothing Rahm kota has demonstrated has impressed me in the least bit. Qui Gon Jinn wins this one.

Marco1907
Qui-Gon.

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