Magneto vs Doom, whos the better leader?

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redhotrash
So Magneto and Dr. Doom are two of the more prolific villains in marvel. Both have lead teams to big things. So overall, whos the better leader?

Endrict Nuul
Mags

rotiart
Dr. Doom. Think about what he did with the Heroes Reborn Universe, took pretty much the whole darn thing over.

Mindset
Doom is better at everything.

shokosugi
Dr. Doom is smarter and more cunning than Magneto.

rotiart
Besides that... EVERY time Magneto rises to power... one of his people tries to betray or overthrow him...

Dr. Doom although his people live in fear... have universal health care.. .and everyone has a job... Latveria actually loves their despot...

Jynocidus
Magneto was right t-shirts ftw

Wei Phoenix
I'll follow Magneto before Doom any day. Not saying that Doom sucks or anything its just that Magneto is better.

fangirl101
Leadership is about inspiring others. Magneto is better.

Endrict Nuul
Doom would kill his teammates in order to make sure his plans work or once he has no need for them anymore. Hes not trust worthy at all.

Mindset
Originally posted by fangirl101
Leadership is about inspiring others. Magneto is better. You mean like inspiring and leading a revolution then a country?

fangirl101
Originally posted by Mindset
You mean like inspiring and leading a revolution then a country?
Something deeper. Doom uses fear. That is not good leadership. Magneto believes in a cause. And people gravitate to him becuz of it. He's a better leader than doom anyday.

Juntai
Magneto is the better leader.

Mindset
Originally posted by fangirl101
Something deeper. Doom uses fear. That is not good leadership. Magneto believes in a cause. And people gravitate to him becuz of it. He's a better leader than doom anyday. The people of Latveria like Doom.

fangirl101
Originally posted by Mindset
The people of Latveria like Doom.
People around the world RESPECT magneto. Even those who don't believe in his cause. That is good leadership.

Mindset
Originally posted by fangirl101
People around the world RESPECT magneto. Even those who don't believe in his cause. That is good leadership. People around the world RESPECT Doom. Even those who don't like him.

Starscream M
Magneto was born to lead.

Doom barely understands the concept of team.

BUSTER1
Doom !

fangirl101
Originally posted by Mindset
People around the world RESPECT Doom. Even those who don't like him.
People around the world fear doom. they don't even understand him.

Mindset
Originally posted by fangirl101
People around the world fear doom. they don't even understand him.
Yes they fear him, they also respect him.

Namor didn't go to Latveria with his men after he left Atlantis because he feared him.

They don't understand him? What are you talking about?

janus77
Magneto has more charisma, magnetism even (you know I had to!).

Doom on the other hand has ruthlessness and drive beyond Magneto's capacity. he has a thirst for absolute power which Magneto's rarely, if ever, demonstrated.

as a leader in a tight spot, Doom is the better. his survival instinct, his assessment of a situation - especially a fluid and abnormal one - is far better than Magnetos, in fact far better than any 'mortal' in Marvel imo.

as a leader to look after a state, to keep the people in line without recourse to brutal measures, Magneto would be better. though his capacity for sentiment is actually his greatest weakness, imo. I'd still rather see a flawed and humane "man" in charge, than what is essentially a calculating and inhumane machine driven by the need for power (security? safety?) and his own vanity.


don't get me wrong, if Doom and Magneto were leading two warring nations, I'd much rather hold shares in the stock exchanges of Doom's nation than Magneto's for I can be quite certain that Magneto and his nation were "doomed" but, I'd most certainly not want to be a citizen in Doom's nation... the fact that at any moment I could be sacrificed as part of a gambit or a battle in order to win the war ... that's very much the way of Doom.

Bouboumaster
If I had to fellow one of these two, it would be Magneto.

Allankles
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
If I had to fellow one of these two, it would be Magneto.

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by janus77
Magneto has more charisma, magnetism even (you know I had to!).

Doom on the other hand has ruthlessness and drive beyond Magneto's capacity. he has a thirst for absolute power which Magneto's rarely, if ever, demonstrated.

as a leader in a tight spot, Doom is the better. his survival instinct, his assessment of a situation - especially a fluid and abnormal one - is far better than Magnetos, in fact far better than any 'mortal' in Marvel imo.

as a leader to look after a state, to keep the people in line without recourse to brutal measures, Magneto would be better. though his capacity for sentiment is actually his greatest weakness, imo. I'd still rather see a flawed and humane "man" in charge, than what is essentially a calculating and inhumane machine driven by the need for power (security? safety?) and his own vanity.


don't get me wrong, if Doom and Magneto were leading two warring nations, I'd much rather hold shares in the stock exchanges of Doom's nation than Magneto's for I can be quite certain that Magneto and his nation were "doomed" but, I'd most certainly not want to be a citizen in Doom's nation... the fact that at any moment I could be sacrificed as part of a gambit or a battle in order to win the war ... that's very much the way of Doom.

Wouldn't Magneto himself beable to neutralize any bomb or weapon Doom would use to destroy his land?

rotiart
Hrm. I'm forgetting freedom of will here..

Honestly... If you lived with Doom... you'd almost never fear attack... have no wars... no lack of jobs or food... but you'd be subjugated under a dictator to the nth level..

Whereas magneto would allow his people certain freedoms... at least he would... until most likely another acolyte would arrive to kill/imprison/incapacitate mags... and you'd end up with an entire kingdom in anarchy... with warring factions on all sides.. and fearing for your life every day.. no food, no safety... and several dictators every where you look. sound like genosha to anyone?

rotiart
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Wouldn't Magneto himself beable to neutralize any bomb or weapon Doom would use to destroy his land?

IF doom REALLY wanted mags dead... he could travel back in time... or create some kind of biotech weapon that effects only mags genetic structure.. or create a mutant gene disabling weapon... or hell just drop nukes on all 4 corners of genosha.

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by rotiart
IF doom REALLY wanted mags dead... he could travel back in time... or create some kind of biotech weapon that effects only mags genetic structure.. or create a mutant gene disabling weapon... or hell just drop nukes on all 4 corners of genosha.

The whole time machine crap is just stupid and extremely cheap. When has Doom ever used it to kil someone. He wants Reed dead more than anyone and yet he still hasn't used it to go back and kill him.

Hell Scarlet Witch could just counter all of that. Magneto would know about the nukes before they hit and then he would use his awesome powers to send them right back.

Mindset
Doom could come up with something to take out Mags, that isn't even an obstacle.

Scarlet Witch? How and why would she help Mags?

Bouboumaster
Doom would mope the floor with Magneto.

But in this contest, I think that Magneto is a lot more inspiring that Doom would ever will be.

But, I think that the most inspiring character in MU is Charles Xavier.

Mindset
Everyone hates Xavier.

Most inspiring is Captain America.

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by Mindset
Doom could come up with something to take out Mags, that isn't even an obstacle.

Scarlet Witch? How and why would she help Mags?

Yeah but still Doom would have to deal with his children as well.

Provided that SW is alive she can help. She is a reality warper you choose which way she decides to help him. True they aren't on the greates of terms but Wanda doesn't want him dead and vice versa.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Doom would mope the floor with Magneto.

But in this contest, I think that Magneto is a lot more inspiring that Doom would ever will be.

But, I think that the most inspiring character in MU is Charles Xavier.

Are you sure about that? Magneto has beaten Doom before and embarassed him worse than Reed could ever dream of. Magneto broke Doom.

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by Mindset
Everyone hates Xavier.

Most inspiring is Captain America.

Lies! the most inspiring is Doorman.

rotiart
Most inspiring is Squirrel Girl.

Jobber Aura to the Nth degree.
Her dial winds up to 12

Mindset
Her dial never stops

Endrict Nuul
How well did Doom work as a team mate in SW II and with the FF when they worked together? Once Doom saw the higher powers he wanted their power. Hes very greedy and power hungry. Hes not a team player he uses people to get what he wants and always has a hidden plan. Thats not a good leader at all.

redhotrash
My thought is, Magneto strikes me as much more inspiring. He gets in there WITH his guys rather than hovering over them shouting orders. Doom to me seems to get loyality from fear. People might not agree with his motives, but they go with them because they are scared not to. Meanwhile Magneto can do a television spot on Monday and have a thousand people there to support him on Wednesday. I didnt really do this thread as a "who would win" but a "who would you rather follow". But yeah if we are talking like, who's team would win, I'd say Doom. He just brings too much. The guy CREATES supervillains.

Also, someone mentioned Xavier. Is it just me or are they retconning his entire character into an *******? I remember him ALWAYS being real fatherly to the x-men. Then I stopped reading for a while, pick up a issue a while ago, and hes acting like a total douche. When did this happen?

Endrict Nuul
Mags easily.

Bouboumaster
Originally posted by redhotrash
My thought is, Magneto strikes me as much more inspiring. He gets in there WITH his guys rather than hovering over them shouting orders. Doom to me seems to get loyality from fear. People might not agree with his motives, but they go with them because they are scared not to. Meanwhile Magneto can do a television spot on Monday and have a thousand people there to support him on Wednesday. I didnt really do this thread as a "who would win" but a "who would you rather follow". But yeah if we are talking like, who's team would win, I'd say Doom. He just brings too much. The guy CREATES supervillains.

Also, someone mentioned Xavier. Is it just me or are they retconning his entire character into an *******? I remember him ALWAYS being real fatherly to the x-men. Then I stopped reading for a while, pick up a issue a while ago, and hes acting like a total douche. When did this happen?

I don't know, but I was talking about "Classic" Xavier, not "Illuminati" Xavier, the one you are describing

Wei Phoenix
I still say Magneto would own Doom in a war. What is stopping him from turning his own country on him and crushing it with all of the metal around there. Would Doom even want to challenge him after the embarassment and ownage Magneto served him last time?

Endrict Nuul
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
I still say Magneto would own Doom in a war. What is stopping him from turning his own country on him and crushing it with all of the metal around there. Would Doom even want to challenge him after the embarassment and ownage Magneto served him last time?

This is not about who would win in a fight.

Wei Phoenix
I was saying that to Red who said that Doom should win if it was a nation against nation.

Mindset
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
I still say Magneto would own Doom in a war. What is stopping him from turning his own country on him and crushing it with all of the metal around there. Would Doom even want to challenge him after the embarassment and ownage Magneto served him last time? If Doom had prep he would crush Mags, you are aware Doom has beaten Mags I believe twice, right?

fascistcrusader
Magneto. Doom seems more of a despot who makes Latveria love him through Doombots and fear than a good leader. Magneto, however, is seen as an inspiration to mutants everywhere, and was the the beloved leader of Genosha.

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by Mindset
If Doom had prep he would crush Mags, you are aware Doom has beaten Mags I believe twice, right?

Yeah with prep he stands more of a chance, but even while he is prepping Mags could still crush his bots and destroy his cities. You are aware that Magneto has beaten him before too and in the worst possible way ever?

Mindset
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Yeah with prep he stands more of a chance, but even while he is prepping Mags could still crush his bots and destroy his cities. You are aware that Magneto has beaten him before too and in the worst possible way ever? Yes I am aware, and if I didn't before after you have said it in about 100 posts here I surely know now. smile

Wei Phoenix
Sorry its just that I always repeat myself 100 times because I feel as if no one really cares about me...my doctor says that I should work on that. sad

redhotrash
Didnt Doom once turn off Magneto's powers with the touch of a button? Just a side note.

Symmetric Chaos
Magneto is certainly a more inspiring leader, but Doom might be more effective.

Mindset
Originally posted by redhotrash
Didnt Doom once turn off Magneto's powers with the touch of a button? Just a side note. I believe so, I think it's in the respect thread.

rotiart
I think the question should be redefined... as in.. whos the better leader:

If you want your army to win a war? Doom
If you want to lead your people in peaceful times? Magneto

Magneto may have the respect of his people.. but so do a lot of terrorists.... He's also failed in a lot of his... i'm taking over the world... projects... or asteroid m.. or genosha.. or... f it.. anything he does is pretty much a failure.

Doom has maintained control of Latveria for how many decades now?....

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by rotiart
I think the question should be redefined... as in.. whos the better leader:

If you want your army to win a war? Doom
If you want to lead your people in peaceful times? Magneto

Magneto may have the respect of his people.. but so do a lot of terrorists.... He's also failed in a lot of his... i'm taking over the world... projects... or asteroid m.. or genosha.. or... f it.. anything he does is pretty much a failure.

Doom has maintained control of Latveria for how many decades now?....

What are you talking about? He has been dethroned many times. He has risen back to power pretty easily each time but still.

Mindset
When were these many times he was dethroned?

rotiart
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
What are you talking about? He has been dethroned many times. He has risen back to power pretty easily each time but still.

True.. but being displaced from power... is not the same as being without power.

Magneto tends to either run rogue... or have small bands called the brotherhood.. he finally got ahold of asteroid m after.. what... 20 years? and genosha... about 15 years after that?

even considering the brief periods where he cloned himself.. put his mind into another person.. etc.. he still ruled his own kingdom for the majority of time consecutivity since like.. the 60's.

Wei Phoenix
That Zorba dude took over once. Everytime Doom either died or got banished from Earth counts as him losing control of Latveria.

Wei Phoenix
Originally posted by rotiart
True.. but being displaced from power... is not the same as being without power.

Magneto tends to either run rogue... or have small bands called the brotherhood.. he finally got ahold of asteroid m after.. what... 20 years? and genosha... about 15 years after that?

even considering the brief periods where he cloned himself.. put his mind into another person.. etc.. he still ruled his own kingdom for the majority of time consecutivity since like.. the 60's.

yeah no doubt that Doom has showed that he has had better control over his nation.

rotiart
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
That Zorba dude took over once. Everytime Doom either died or got banished from Earth counts as him losing control of Latveria.

yah, but when he died, or got banished, it wasn't by the people of the country. he wasn't overthrown from the inside the majority of those times.

Magneto for the majority fights civil wars... and even has many attempts from within his own acolytes to overthrow him as leader.

Doom is a more rare situation.

The question is how doom is as a leader. Okay, so in continuity, you have maybe... 6 years since the 60's where doom did not have control of latveria.

magneto has been around since about then. He's had control of a country for what... how long.. 4 years? ands its been in civil war... destroyed.. a cesspool... for what? 3 years?...

yah....

Placidity
I would die for Magneto.

Not really, but you know what I mean or something like that.

redhotrash
One thing that comes to mind, the secret wars. You had some of the most egostistical, renegade, loner types of villains all in a room together and Doom was pretty much default leader just because hes Doom.

Mindset
Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
That Zorba dude took over once. Everytime Doom either died or got banished from Earth counts as him losing control of Latveria. Yea, but that's because he wasn't there.

That doesn't count as him losing Latveria.

Knowsbleed33
Originally posted by Mindset
Everyone hates Xavier.

Most inspiring is Captain America.

thumb up

Doom gets my vote.

godking
Doom

A ruthless bastard yes

But unlike magneto despite his faults Doom is a true king.

Magneto has neither the ruthlesness or character to hold on to the reigns of power .

Magneto is a good Rebel leader but once he gets into power he will ALWAYS lose.

Doom is truly a KING Magneto is a pretender.

Harbinger
I'd stab a mfer in the neck with a butterknife for Doom.

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by rotiart

Dr. Doom although his people live in fear... have universal health care.. .and everyone has a job... Latveria actually loves their despot...

Not according to Brubakers mini-series.

Tenebrous
Ok Clearly people here have different conceptions of the definition of a leader.

I'll go into somewhat political territory and say that in today's civilized world, the connotation of "leader" DOES NOT mean autocrat, despot, or military commander.

The connotation of "leader" in a civilized context is one who is choosen through some system of popular majority to direct and decided affairs of state. For monarchies, it is in the context of a hereditary line of competent individuals, whose subjects give implicit approval by not overthrowing the ruling monarchy, and whose peers in other forms of government have good relations.

If you are asking "who is the better leader" then by default you are referring to the civilized view of the term "leader"

Doom is an autocrat and a despot. His nation is secure, yes, but he rules through fear. He is egomaniacal and his goals and objectives are mutually exclusive of nearly every other single individual in the MU. That means he will always have more enemies than allies, always.
Unwilling to share power, believes in no ideal or concept save for his own personal advancement....these are the tell-tale signs of an absolute dictator.

Those who say Doom is a better leader do so from an absolute ruler context. As someone wisely said, Doom does not inspire.

Magneto has an ideal and a belief for which he would do almost anything. He has inspired countless people, and while the ends are not successful, he's demonstrated capability to inspire, adapt, and even temporarily alter his views (being head of xavier's school).

If you want an authoritarian system, one entirely built on despotism and absolute rule to achieve remarkable things, Doom is the choice.

If you want a selectively homogenous, community-dependent system, one built entirely on a belief and ideal to strive for remarkable things, Magneto is the choice.

One last thing. You can't compare Latveria to Genosha. Latveria is one human country out of more than 300 on the planet, and is only one despotism of many.

Genosha is (or was) the focal point of an entire race. You cannot compare one human country out of hundreds to the first and only mutant nation in existence. The dynamics are the NOT the same, the inherent political relations and stability, populations and demographics are as wide and different between Latveria and Genosha as Earth is from Pluto.

Lastly, if Doom died, what would happen to Latveria?
If Magneto trully died, what would happen to Genosha?

redhotrash
Nicely said. When you put it like that, I wonder how Magneto would rate against the MU in general in this field.

Nestical
Originally posted by fangirl101
Leadership is about inspiring others. Magneto is better.

well said thumb up

godking
Originally posted by Tenebrous
Ok Clearly people here have different conceptions of the definition of a leader.

I'll go into somewhat political territory and say that in today's civilized world, the connotation of "leader" DOES NOT mean autocrat, despot, or military commander.

The connotation of "leader" in a civilized context is one who is choosen through some system of popular majority to direct and decided affairs of state. For monarchies, it is in the context of a hereditary line of competent individuals, whose subjects give implicit approval by not overthrowing the ruling monarchy, and whose peers in other forms of government have good relations.

If you are asking "who is the better leader" then by default you are referring to the civilized view of the term "leader"

Doom is an autocrat and a despot. His nation is secure, yes, but he rules through fear. He is egomaniacal and his goals and objectives are mutually exclusive of nearly every other single individual in the MU. That means he will always have more enemies than allies, always.
Unwilling to share power, believes in no ideal or concept save for his own personal advancement....these are the tell-tale signs of an absolute dictator.

Those who say Doom is a better leader do so from an absolute ruler context. As someone wisely said, Doom does not inspire.

Magneto has an ideal and a belief for which he would do almost anything. He has inspired countless people, and while the ends are not successful, he's demonstrated capability to inspire, adapt, and even temporarily alter his views (being head of xavier's school).

If you want an authoritarian system, one entirely built on despotism and absolute rule to achieve remarkable things, Doom is the choice.

If you want a selectively homogenous, community-dependent system, one built entirely on a belief and ideal to strive for remarkable things, Magneto is the choice.

One last thing. You can't compare Latveria to Genosha. Latveria is one human country out of more than 300 on the planet, and is only one despotism of many.

Genosha is (or was) the focal point of an entire race. You cannot compare one human country out of hundreds to the first and only mutant nation in existence. The dynamics are the NOT the same, the inherent political relations and stability, populations and demographics are as wide and different between Latveria and Genosha as Earth is from Pluto.

Lastly, if Doom died, what would happen to Latveria?
If Magneto trully died, what would happen to Genosha? Magneto is a wannabe Doom is a true King .

Magneto will only do well until he actually achieves his goal then he will fail as always.

Doom is a true King you might not like him you might not agree with him but if you where his subject you would never think to overthrow him because you know that is is the law and for all his faults he is the best leader.

Being an inspiring rebel leader and being a King a re two completly different things.

srankmissingnin
Magneto inspires people with his ideals and beliefs and people fallow him because the choose to, not because he is a tyrannical despot. I'd say he is a much better leader.

janus77
I think it hinges on the question of what you want out of your leader.
Doom's leadership has a utilitarian quality to it, I imagine. he'll do what's best for his nation, for the "greater good". which usually means that he rules with an iron hand. he doesn't suffer challenges or people questioning his authority.

Magneto is more forgiving and much more idealistic, he can inspire but he can also be blinded by his dreams/ideals... which makes him a leader you might "feel for", but definitely not one who could plot the best course for a nation.

if you were in an army you'd want Magneto as your captain and Doom as your General. Magneto would look out for you, put himself in danger to protect you and would rouse the best fighting spirit out of the troops but it's Doom who would win the war, sacrificing whatever need be sacrificed, making the cold calculations of power that guarantee his pre-eminance.

godking
Originally posted by janus77
I think it hinges on the question of what you want out of your leader.
Doom's leadership has a utilitarian quality to it, I imagine. he'll do what's best for his nation, for the "greater good". which usually means that he rules with an iron hand. he doesn't suffer challenges or people questioning his authority.

Magneto is more forgiving and much more idealistic, he can inspire but he can also be blinded by his dreams/ideals... which makes him a leader you might "feel for", but definitely not one who could plot the best course for a nation.

if you were in an army you'd want Magneto as your captain and Doom as your General. Magneto would look out for you, put himself in danger to protect you and would rouse the best fighting spirit out of the troops but it's Doom who would win the war, sacrificing whatever need be sacrificed, making the cold calculations of power that guarantee his pre-eminance. Agreed Magneto it a good inspiring rebel leader. Doom is a King

Phantom Zone
Originally posted by janus77
I think it hinges on the question of what you want out of your leader.
Doom's leadership has a utilitarian quality to it, I imagine. he'll do what's best for his nation, for the "greater good". which usually means that he rules with an iron hand. he doesn't suffer challenges or people questioning his authority.

Magneto is more forgiving and much more idealistic, he can inspire but he can also be blinded by his dreams/ideals... which makes him a leader you might "feel for", but definitely not one who could plot the best course for a nation.

if you were in an army you'd want Magneto as your captain and Doom as your General. Magneto would look out for you, put himself in danger to protect you and would rouse the best fighting spirit out of the troops but it's Doom who would win the war, sacrificing whatever need be sacrificed, making the cold calculations of power that guarantee his pre-eminance.

Hmm but I think Tenebrous made the good point that ruling a nation that is the focal point of the whole race is different from just ruling a country....

psycho gundam
magneto for the win.

doom's ego gets the better of him always, his most embarrassing defeats are always symptoms of his ego.

magneto inspires his followers by telling them to raise their head's high and fight back.

Mindset
Originally posted by psycho gundam
magneto for the win.

doom's ego gets the better of him always, his most embarrassing defeats are always symptoms of his ego.

magneto inspires his followers by telling them to raise their head's high and fight back. Doom has to lose because of his ego, otherwise he wouldn't.

psycho gundam
sure, but a built-in mental weakness is the worst kind. just like my friend's dog, instinct led to his death when he couldn't resist eating a hedgehog.

Mindset
What villain doesn't have a built in mental weakness?

redhotrash
The thing is, Doom and BlackPanther to me seem pretty similiar. Both lead what would be 3rd world nations that are only world powers because of odd circumstances. Vibranium and science in this case. BP keeps his country safe and is loved by his people, Doom keeps his country safe and is love/feared depending on whos writing. Is there really that much difference in how they do things? Or is it more of how the writers try to define good guys and bad guys?

ExodusCloak

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