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How'd it get all crappy like that? Plz discuss b/c I don't know how this happened. And please don't allow political correctness into any discussion. So keep your white-bashing and white guilt to yourself.

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. I suspect you're thinking a little more specifically then your post.

Exploitation from richer countries.

That's not capitalism though. lookaround

It's a bit unfair to only blame richer countries for the situation.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
yep its sad and wrong, but whats the solution?

Socialism/Communism?

Originally posted by Bardock42
It's a bit unfair to only blame richer countries for the situation. Sure, war was another factor.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Sure, war was another factor. And maybe also people there oppressing their own people?

Originally posted by Bardock42
And maybe also people there oppressing their own people? A number of those were from western influences.

Ecuador, Panama, Iran, Iraq are examples.

There are several factors why Third World countries exist. It's not just the struggle between the capitalist and communist ideas. There is also fear....fear to speak your mind and get shot. A cruel reality...which seems to be persistent in those nations.

Originally posted by lord xyz
A number of those were from western influences.

Ecuador, Panama, Iran, Iraq are examples.

i wouldn't say Iranians were particularly oppressed...and i definitely wouldn't say they are western influenced

Well, they keep on fighting.

Originally posted by jaden101
i wouldn't say Iranians were particularly oppressed...and i definitely wouldn't say they are western influenced

prior to the revolution in 79, the leader of Iran was pro-west and supported heavily by the Americans.

During this time, the regime was very oppressive, and was such almost with the tacit compliance of Washington, given that the oil was always flowing.

I agree sort of though, and totally think XYZ would have made a way better point by talking about Chile or even the recent grain and rice import/export deals signed between the World Bank/IMF and Haiti.

Originally posted by lord xyz
A number of those were from western influences.

Ecuador, Panama, Iran, Iraq are examples.

not that you don't have a point, but it is fairly clear that were the west not investing in the third world, certain factors would be much worse, one of which, imho, is the oppression of human rights.

While Americans may create proxy dictators and financially prop up some despots, Africa, South America and Asia have had no shortage of local and domestically supported tyrants. Like, Burma with no Western oil money is probably more desperate and has more strife between government and people.

EDIT: im the DP master!

This is a dumb question. It's almost suggest, the way it is worded, that it is the fault of the third world that they are in that position.

Give a country and then it can be answered to that specific situation. Far too general otherwise.

Originally posted by jaden101
i wouldn't say Iranians were particularly oppressed...and i definitely wouldn't say they are western influenced Iranian leaders have basically sucked the US's cock for oil.

The only one who didn't was Mossodegh, you know, the one they claimed to be a dictator that they overthrew and replaced with the Shah.

Originally posted by inimalist
not that you don't have a point, but it is fairly clear that were the west not investing in the third world, certain factors would be much worse, one of which, imho, is the oppression of human rights.

While Americans may create proxy dictators and financially prop up some despots, Africa, South America and Asia have had no shortage of local and domestically supported tyrants. Like, Burma with no Western oil money is probably more desperate and has more strife between government and people.

EDIT: im the DP master! Can you please provide an example?

An even so, I don't know how that justifies poverty and debt, without any hope of coming out of the hole.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Iranian leaders have basically sucked the US's cock for oil.

The only one who didn't was Mossodegh, you know, the one they claimed to be a dictator that they overthrew and replaced with the Shah.

Can you please provide an example?

An even so, I don't know how that justifies poverty and debt, without any hope of coming out of the hole.

Big Stick policy

I'm being too lazy to give anything beyond Latin America.

Check out Iran-Contra. That had some interesting results for the Middle East.

LMFAO, 1st world countries don't have gangs and mafias and extremists groups?

Originally posted by UKR
How'd it get all crappy like that? Plz discuss b/c I don't know how this happened. And please don't allow political correctness into any discussion. So keep your white-bashing and white guilt to yourself.

Study European history and Economics from The 17th Century to 2005 you'll need to access a University Reference Library at some point.

Then Study The History of China Russia Japan and The U.S.A. from the 19th Century to 1998

When You've done that put on a blindfold, and throw a dart at a large cut out of the African Continent.

Remove the blindfold Then research the history of the target territory between the years of 1900 and 2005.

That's my favorite answer so far.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Can you please provide an example?

Off the top of my head, both the conflicts in the DRC and Sudan are being criticized for a lack of first world involvement, much like Rwanda and Somalia.

Columbia has many problems that stem from demand for cocaine in America. Their cartel and paramilitary problems existed long before America initiated its war on Drugs.

Stalinist Russia and Maoist China.

The Communist revolution in Cuba...

again, just off the top of my head...

Originally posted by lord xyz
An even so, I don't know how that justifies poverty and debt, without any hope of coming out of the hole.

I'm not trying to justify anything, Hell, I even said you had a point in my reply.

The fact is, regardless of how negative first world policy is for Africa and the developing world, the attribution of "blame" for the political, social and economic conditions of a third world nation, or any nation for that matter, is far too complex to boil down to a single issue.

Hell, we could do an infinite regression and say it is that fault of naturally forming geographic and climatic conditions that predisposed cultures in certain locations to various difficulties in development.

Originally posted by inimalist
Off the top of my head, both the conflicts in the DRC and Sudan are being criticized for a lack of first world involvement, much like Rwanda and Somalia.

Columbia has many problems that stem from demand for cocaine in America. Their cartel and paramilitary problems existed long before America initiated its war on Drugs.

Stalinist Russia and Maoist China.

The Communist revolution in Cuba...

again, just off the top of my head... I'm sorry, but people saying their should've been intervention doesn't prove anything.

More to the point, what America did to Stalinist Russia was little if anything.

Originally posted by inimalist
I'm not trying to justify anything, Hell, I even said you had a point in my reply. Yeah, but I'm not really seeing your argument.

Originally posted by inimalist
The fact is, regardless of how negative first world policy is for Africa and the developing world, the attribution of "blame" for the political, social and economic conditions of a third world nation, or any nation for that matter, is far too complex to boil down to a single issue. A lot of it ties to first world policy/interests.

Originally posted by inimalist
Hell, we could do an infinite regression and say it is that fault of naturally forming geographic and climatic conditions that predisposed cultures in certain locations to various difficulties in development. Hmm, but that doesn't promote my agenda.

Lol, I make a joke.

Why is the Third World so Third World?

1. Poverty.
2. Lack of education.
3. No other countries give a sh*t.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Why is the Third World so Third World?

1. Poverty.
2. Lack of education.
3. No other countries give a sh*t. I think we would give a shit if it didn't mean losing out ourselves.

Originally posted by inimalist

Stalinist Russia and Maoist China.



China and Russia are not third world countries.

Originally posted by lord xyz
I'm sorry, but people saying their should've been intervention doesn't prove anything.

you asked me for examples of domestic leaders who were causing human rights abuses in the third world, without the assistance of the first world.

America having no interest in Sudan, and thus not doing anything seems to be the exact definition of this

Originally posted by lord xyz
More to the point, what America did to Stalinist Russia was little if anything.

indeed, as you asked me to provide examples of exactly that

Originally posted by lord xyz
Yeah, but I'm not really seeing your argument.

many problems in the third world are not actually the result of actions taken by first world nations.

Some things are, and some of the most crucial obstacles facing third world development are, but many are not.

Originally posted by lord xyz
A lot of it ties to first world policy/interests.

sure, but globalized world and all that, nothing is going to exist in isolation. However, the examples I provided are ones where the interests of powerful nations either were not involved, or even lost power (Cuban revolution).

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
China and Russia are not third world countries.

It is arguable that under Mao and Stalin respectively they were, though yes, Russia today is absolutely not, and China mostly isn't.

Originally posted by inimalist
you asked me for examples of domestic leaders who were causing human rights abuses in the third world, without the assistance of the first world.

America having no interest in Sudan, and thus not doing anything seems to be the exact definition of this



indeed, as you asked me to provide examples of exactly that



many problems in the third world are not actually the result of actions taken by first world nations.

Some things are, and some of the most crucial obstacles facing third world development are, but many are not.



sure, but globalized world and all that, nothing is going to exist in isolation. However, the examples I provided are ones where the interests of powerful nations either were not involved, or even lost power (Cuban revolution).



It is arguable that under Mao and Stalin respectively they were, though yes, Russia today is absolutely not, and China mostly isn't.

Mostly? China is not a third world country at all.

And seeing how the term itself was coined in mid 1950s, calling Russia Third World Country is ridiculous.
Russia is so vast that areas of it are poor and not developed, but as a country Russia was never a Third World.

By that logic, Germany would have been a third world country as well.
Which is just ridiculous.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Mostly? China is not a third world country at all.

And seeing how the term itself was coined in mid 1950s, calling Russia Third World Country is ridiculous.
Russia is so vast that areas of it are poor and not developed, but as a country Russia was never a Third World.

By that logic, Germany would have been a third world country as well.
Which is just ridiculous.

ok

...people...Communist Russia and China were Second World...that was the whole point.

Originally posted by inimalist
you asked me for examples of domestic leaders who were causing human rights abuses in the third world, without the assistance of the first world.

America having no interest in Sudan, and thus not doing anything seems to be the exact definition of this I asked for examples of American intervention promoting human rights, as that was your argument.

Originally posted by inimalist
indeed, as you asked me to provide examples of exactly that I didn't.

Originally posted by inimalist
many problems in the third world are not actually the result of actions taken by first world nations.

Some things are, and some of the most crucial obstacles facing third world development are, but many are not. Considering the third world has gotten worse since the IMF and world bank were established, they deserve the blame.

Originally posted by inimalist
sure, but globalized world and all that, nothing is going to exist in isolation. However, the examples I provided are ones where the interests of powerful nations either were not involved, or even lost power (Cuban revolution). Which wasn't what I wanted or requested.