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So, now that Ultimatum is upon the Ultimate Universe, what's going on?

Anyone who hasn't read the issue/s will probable see spoilers, so be warned.

Magneto does something to **** with the planet, in what Xavier calls his "Doomsday Plan" to murder six billion men, women and children. He floods New York City, very 'Day After Tomorrow'ly, and potentially kills three X-Men, Johnny Storm and his father, and succeeds in killing millions of citizens. Sue Storm also appears to be on the brink of dying after using a massive forcefield to push the water out of tthe city and back into the ocean. Latveria, we see, is frozen over with many citizens surrounding the castle appearing to have frozen to death. Xavier tries to band the troops together telepathically, calling the Fantastic Four, Ultimates and his X-Men, but Magneto is clearly able to eavesdrop on the telepathic communique. The preview for next issue just says: It Gets Worse.

So why'd he do it? was it because Wanda got killed? Is that all? I'm not entirely up-to-date on my Ultimate Universe, especially the Ultimate X-Men, but that seems to be the reason that's springing to mind. And what's coming next? And how does Rick Jones fit into all of it?

I for one Im happy for this storyline. Magneto havent had a time to shine in years. I wouldve rather be on 616 M.U but Ill take what I get. As for the reason, It was because of the recent events in the Ultimates, Wanda's murder.

is this the older one starring matt damon? mmm

good so far...uber mags is back

my guess is that this doomsday scenario is the one thing he tried and failed at before...that is reversing the Earth's magnetic poles...though i would have more expected flash freezing than flash flooding also, he could have pulled a a Doctor move and held as mmmmmmmouch as new york in place as possible and let the earth still spin on its orbit

*realizes Loeb's writing it*

*lowers expectations*

Hell, it's a decent read once you kinda realize it's not going to be anything special. Nothing like a massive crossover to give someone a couple uber feats for the fanboys to drool over. And it's almost refreshing to know the villain in issue #1. Drawn-out melodramatic "reveals" 3/4 of the way into an arc are overdone. I hope there's no twists, and Mags is actually the one behind it.

Originally posted by manjaro
my guess is that this doomsday scenario is the one thing he tried and failed at before...that is reversing the Earth's magnetic poles...though i would have more expected flash freezing than flash flooding also, he could have pulled a a Doctor move and held as mmmmmmmouch as new york in place as possible and let the earth still spin on its orbit

Maybe they borrowed him from Wildstorm to be a super-villain. I'd cream.

issue two good also

I kinda chuckled at issue 2.

Also. I realized again, as I do occasionally, how much PIS is actually involved in comic universes where they deal with such insane power levels. Reed Richards can alter reality on a galactic scale with the cosmic cube that he built. He didn't find it. He built it. I'm not even sure 616 Reed can come close to that. Anyway, there's no reason in the world he shouldn't just make another one and undo everything Magneto did.

Blob/Wasp scene=

http://i39.tinypic.com/b8r801.gif

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/8968/20081223guestjoncallanqg6.png

Originally posted by Scoobless
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/8968/20081223guestjoncallanqg6.png

So like a Watchmen, Marvel universe .... Interesting

I think its a shame how crap the Ultimate universe is. IMO, i would let Ellis run riot with it like he was supposed to do with New Universal. I mean a few years ago Mark Millar was basically writing it in its entirety, why not let Ellis do the same. He'd be perfect; sci-fi escapism, uber badass dialogue and most importantly of all; never having to meet a deadline.

Ultimate U still has good titles. For a while there it was pwning the hell outa 616 in terms of cohesiveness of the universe and many quality titles. FF and S-M are still entertaining, and this from someone who normally cares nothing about the former of those.

But people decided that it was going to sh*t as soon as Loeb took over Ultimates. Granted, that title took a dive, and Ultimatum might kidney punch the entire universe, but one writer can't wreck multiple titles, especially when he doesn't work on them all.

Once this is over we might have a decent universe.

Simply b/c Loeb might stop writing Ultimate titles.

and Millar's back and Bendis still gets to do USM.

Yeah, Bendis has made some questionable decisions with stories and characters, but he does an incredible job with Spidey. The character just seems to fit well for him.

It's trash.

I don't get the whole Blob eating Wanda scene?

I guess I'm in the solid minority, but I'm liking 'Ultimatum' so far.

Despite what I've heard people say, it's far more than a tidal wave which is wreaking havoc across the world. Magneto's shifting of the magnetic poles is causing global devastation in many different forms ... To me, it's refreshing to see these type of things destroying Marvel earth this time, instead of some random invasion/war.

Granted, the dialogue may not be the best I've read - but all in all I find this to ba an enjoyable read. It's taken Ult. Magneto out of the shadows, and reintroduced him as the major powerhouse he really is. It also displayed his "I'm prepared to do anything to win" attitude, when he killed Xavier via neck-snap. And I think the final battle between Mags and the remainder of the 'Ultimate' heroes has the potential to be quite good as well...

I dunno, I'd recommend it overall. kinda

Originally posted by Child Rebel
It's trash.

I don't get the whole Blob eating Wanda scene?

I didnt get that at all. Shock value maybe.

Anybody else thinks Professor X is NOT dead? Im thinking the whole thing happen in Magneto's head. Like Professor X did to Juggernaut in the latest Xmen Legacy.

Originally posted by Digi
Yeah, Bendis has made some questionable decisions with stories and characters, but he does an incredible job with Spidey. The character just seems to fit well for him.

Yeah Ultimate Spider-man is the best Ultimate title out there at the moment.....


....That is probably until Millar returns for Ultimates (fingers crossed for next year) with an artist he's never worked with before apparently

Originally posted by willRules



Ultimatum is as bad if not worse than Ultimates vol 3. Why had Loeb been allowed to continue writing comics? Someone should tell him that this story sucks. It's a strong departure from the vibe of any Ultimates book. The dialogue is soooo poor, especially the first issue. There is not one introduction from any character who appears in the first issue that isn't cheesy or contrived. They either introduce themselves by saying something obvious about their character traits or they tell us about their history (Iron-man introduces himself by muttering about his alcoholism and We are reminded that Hank Pym is a wife beater in the first respective panels for each of these characters) The whole thing smacks of Loeb going "I've got a great idea, a big wave kills loadsa people that will be really shocking!! Yeah and Mags did it....wait.....what? Whadda you mean character moments??? Well Ok......anyway the big wave kills...Umm..."

Sorry for the rant but I loved Millar's Ultimates and it pains me to see Loeb ripping them (what I hope isn't) beyond repair

Loebs just from an Older generation of comic book writers. He's really just stuck in his 90's ways. I get the same vibes from Kurt Brusiek. In a way it make me appreciate how much more sophisticated the medium has got. It also allows me to appreciate the work of some of the more criticised writers, such as Bendis and Miller. So true though.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Loebs just from an Older generation of comic book writers. He's really just stuck in his 90's ways. I get the same vibes from Kurt Brusiek. In a way it make me appreciate how much more sophisticated the medium has got. It also allows me to appreciate the work of some of the more criticised writers, such as Bendis and Miller. So true though.

Agreed I have got nothing against Loeb he has done some great stuff and some terrible stuff. Unfortunately most of his more modern stuff goes into the latter category IMO.

Originally posted by willRules
Agreed I have got nothing against Loeb he has done some great stuff and some terrible stuff. Unfortunately most of his more modern stuff goes into the latter category IMO.

Like Frank Millar, but much more pronounced. Frank still has some skill in him, even if his best work is also past him.

I've said this before, but average demographics for comics are fairly young. 14-18 (or some similar range) is a massive percentage of readers, and certainly for new readers. And Loeb is a great writer for them. Kids don't get into comics to read, say, Neil Gaiman. They get into it to see Hulk SMASH and sh*t like that. They get into it to see their favorite villain (Mags) killing continents and playing the typical arch-villain to a host of stereotyped characters. Etc. etc. So he'll always have sales and an audience, even if it's not most of us, the "hardcore" comic fans.

Originally posted by Digi
I've said this before, but average demographics for comics are fairly young. 14-18 (or some similar range) is a massive percentage of readers, and certainly for new readers. And Loeb is a great writer for them. Kids don't get into comics to read, say, Neil Gaiman. They get into it to see Hulk SMASH and sh*t like that. They get into it to see their favorite villain (Mags) killing continents and playing the typical arch-villain to a host of stereotyped characters. Etc. etc. So he'll always have sales and an audience, even if it's not most of us, the "hardcore" comic fans. You can't knock Loeb too much for that. The guy does what he needs to do to sell comics - and that is, afterall, one of the main concerns for writers nowadays.

On another note, I personally didn't go into this thinking it would be the next Watchmen or Kingdom Come. Instead, I went into it with an open mind, knowing full well what I could expect from a Loeb creation - meaning it was going to be action packed, full of ridiculous feats, and play the stereotypical 'hero card'

It's probably because I'm not reading too far into it, that I've enjoyed this story as much as I have so far. I mean, if you really thought it was going to be a philosophical masterpiece, which solely targeted an 'older' audience, then you had WAY too high of expectations for it. It's meant to be a 'funner' read - take it for what it's worth.

Originally posted by Galan007
You can't knock Loeb too much for that. The guy does what he needs to do to sell comics - and that is, afterall, one of the main concerns for writers nowadays.

On another note, I personally didn't go into this thinking it would be the next Watchmen or Kingdom Come. Instead, I went into it with an open mind, knowing full well what I could expect from a Loeb creation - meaning it was going to be action packed, full of ridiculous feats, and play the stereotypical 'hero card'

It's probably because I'm not reading too far into it, that I've enjoyed this story as much as I have so far. I mean, if you really thought it was going to be a philosophical masterpiece, which solely targeted an 'older' audience, then you had WAY too high of expectations for it. It's meant to be a 'funner' read - take it for what it's worth.

I don't read Loeb expecting that either. Doesn't mean I enjoy it more. Large spectacles and battles can still be done tastefully. Johns' treatment of Infinite Crisis is an example. Or the original Crisis, for that matter. Or any large "event" that you've ever enjoyed (Annihilation comes to mind).

I enjoy the Ultimate universe, so I'm following it. My first post in this thread says it's not bad, considering my expectations. So we're kinda in agreement.

But, as before, younger audience + continued sales means that he'll stay in this particular idiom probably forever.

Also, I don't think he's consciously targeting the younger demograph. I think he writes a certain way, and it happens to appeal to them. Coincidental, not intentional.

Originally posted by Galan007
You can't knock Loeb too much for that. The guy does what he needs to do to sell comics - and that is, afterall, one of the main concerns for writers nowadays.

On another note, I personally didn't go into this thinking it would be the next Watchmen or Kingdom Come. Instead, I went into it with an open mind, knowing full well what I could expect from a Loeb creation - meaning it was going to be action packed, full of ridiculous feats, and play the stereotypical 'hero card'

It's probably because I'm not reading too far into it, that I've enjoyed this story as much as I have so far. I mean, if you really thought it was going to be a philosophical masterpiece, which solely targeted an 'older' audience, then you had WAY too high of expectations for it. It's meant to be a 'funner' read - take it for what it's worth.

Totally agree and I think Loeb has a large audience he can appeal to with this kinda comic. Hulk is perfect for that. He's good with the action that appeals to the demographics that Digi quoted. My only concern is that there is a time and a place for it and I don't believe the Ultimate titles are that. When reading Ultimates, Millar's run on the title is at the forefront of my mind, it mixed balls to wall action with political satire and strong Christian undertones in a very modern and quirky way which I found to be an extremely enjoyable story. When I think of Ultimates, Loeb is the wrong kind of writer. Hulk is a perfect title for him. With Ultimates my expectations were lowered like you guys because IMO Loeb would inevitably reduce the title to the state it's in.

But like I've mentioned this is no criticism on Loeb's part. It's clearly got a wide following and some enjoy it, some don't. I'm in the latter category for two main reasons. Firstly I feel that my opinion of Ultimates is always gonna be coloured by Millar's epic run so anything else is going to be disappointing for me. Secondly I think Loeb's simply been on the wrong title. I think he would do excellent action packed else-worlds stories for Batman or some kind of team book. Hulk whether you like it or not is definitely his kind of niche. I just don't think Ultimates is his. I think someone like Mark Millar or Warren Ellis should be on the title.

But at the end of the day, hey, to each his own.

Final Crisis, Batman:RIP just show that the comic medium isn't ready for sophisticated stories, and would rather stay with Hulk, Ultimatum and such.

And Loeb is obviously consciously doing this kind of stories, in a way taking advantage of the age and (sadly) intelligence of the average comic reader, because he has proven that he can write good stories.

He sells and in the end that's what matters.

Originally posted by Digi
I don't read Loeb expecting that either. Doesn't mean I enjoy it more. Large spectacles and battles can still be done tastefully. Johns' treatment of Infinite Crisis is an example. Or the original Crisis, for that matter. Or any large "event" that you've ever enjoyed (Annihilation comes to mind). Absolutely. However, you didn't really expect Loeb to change his consistent 'style' just for this event, did you? I mean, his work already appeals to a very broad spectrum of readers - and it's that appeal which sells comics, and makes money. Go with what works, as they say lol.

Originally posted by willRules
Totally agree and I think Loeb has a large audience he can appeal to with this kinda comic. Hulk is perfect for that. He's good with the action that appeals to the demographics that Digi quoted. My only concern is that there is a time and a place for it and I don't believe the Ultimate titles are that. When reading Ultimates, Millar's run on the title is at the forefront of my mind, it mixed balls to wall action with political satire and strong Christian undertones in a very modern and quirky way which I found to be an extremely enjoyable story. When I think of Ultimates, Loeb is the wrong kind of writer. Hulk is a perfect title for him. With Ultimates my expectations were lowered like you guys because IMO Loeb would inevitably reduce the title to the state it's in.

But like I've mentioned this is no criticism on Loeb's part. It's clearly got a wide following and some enjoy it, some don't. I'm in the latter category for two main reasons. Firstly I feel that my opinion of Ultimates is always gonna be coloured by Millar's epic run so anything else is going to be disappointing for me. Secondly I think Loeb's simply been on the wrong title. I think he would do excellent action packed else-worlds stories for Batman or some kind of team book. Hulk whether you like it or not is definitely his kind of niche. I just don't think Ultimates is his. I think someone like Mark Millar or Warren Ellis should be on the title.

But at the end of the day, hey, to each his own. I agree.

So Blob is a cannibal now :/

Originally posted by Digi
Wait, what? Of course the medium ready for sophisticated stories. Sophisticated has been doing well for decades, albeit in a more niche market. Most people who enjoy complexity and nuance still dislike FC and RIP for various reasons, which says very little about the industry and more about the execution of those particular storylines (both rather poor, by most opinions).

There's room for both, obviously, since it's a large market nowadays. Loeb's success with more childish fare has nothing to do with that.

Far from it, in terms of marketing succes. When you constantly have stories like Hulk, Ultimates v3 and many others at the top of the sales charts, the first one being quite literally only mindless action, then you know something is wrong. There are many people who enjoy complex stories but they are more the exception that the rule (the sales charts reflect this, and that is why I said 'average comic book reader'). Fact is, storiess that are more sophisticated just aren't appealing to the majority of the comic book public.

Let me guess, they disliked Final Crisis and Batman: RIP because they thought the story is too dense, or because the style is too disjointed in certain parts ? Not surprising. This gets us back to people prefering to stay with more simple stories, and like to know everything up-front. There is absolutley nothing wrong with the execution of Final Crisis or Batman: RIP (one of the only legitimate reasons people might complain for the aforementioned is due to the ending). I'd be willing to discuss any complaints on this stories (prefferably bumping the other threads and doing in there)

You could say that Loeb is a necessary evil to stave off the Manga-craze.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
So Blob is a cannibal now :/

Shock-effect ftw.

Compare this, to one of the horsemen killing Osiris in 52.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a253/redatom65/Ultimatum-024.jpg

Originally posted by Digi
I didn't say they have a huge market. But there IS is a market for sophisticated material. Hell, what bigger proof do you need than the upcoming Watchmen movie? And it won't be as big as the flagships, but will still be successful.

FC and RIP were mucked up with continuity issues, too much hype, and tie-in silliness. They still sold fine, so apparently there is a market, in terms of sheer dollars. But those aren't even critically acclaimed "sophisticated" material. Indie companies, writers' pet projects (I know Warren Ellis has a bunch), Alan Moore, Gaiman, the list goes on.

So yeah, the majority of comic readers are young, and they prefer simpler stories. Doesn't mean intelligent stuff can't thrive, they just won't be the things that keep the companies in business.

That's the point, they don't have a huge market, compared to the series I mentioned, which is why I made the remarks about the average comic reader prefering more simple stories, and Jeph Loeb delivering just that, thus why the succes. Publish a multi-layered, dense story in one of the big 2 companies and most will start going 'I don't get it', 'What is happening', 'I hate this stuff'.

Well, it's not Final Crisis/Grant's fault DC screwed it up with Countdown and stuff (which Grant fixes btw, in the one-shot coming this week), which is why I think the story should be judged simply by what it is. Hype is one of the main reasons why I said some people might be dissapointed with RIP finale, seeing as how it was said to be the most 'shocking reveal in 70 years' or 'the end of Batman', which in the end was moved on to Final Crisis #6. Still, if you're looking into it that shocking conclusion could be seen, but nothing specific is stated only hinted at. And the tie-ins part is where I completly disagree. Grant flat-out said from the start that he doesn't care about all the other tie-ins for Batman: RIP, as for Final Crisis, except supposdley Superman Beyond, and the few one-shots, nothing else is needed either. This doesn't even begin to compare to other company-wide events and the tie-ins for them.

Blob ate Wanda?

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Blob ate Wanda?

Janet.

Originally posted by willRules
I think someone like Mark Millar or Warren Ellis should be on the title.



I still think the Ultimates should have been treated like the Dark Knight/ Tangent universe, and only be written when a great new story comes a long. Putting someone on book just to keep it as an Ongoing is probably the biggest problem the industry. I mean look at Ellis on X-men. Joe Q knew that Warren Ellis name attached to any ongoing was going to put it in the top 20, look at T.Bolts. But its clear that Ellis hasn't wanted to write the stories he's been made to write. T.Bolts and New Universal were Ok, but very poor by his standards (Planetary, Global Frequency, Transmetroploitan, Storm watch, The Authority, in mind). When I saw he was on the X-men in the spring, i had a joy gasm in my pants. I thought that Ellis was finally given work he recognised he could thrive in. Political/moral dilemmas, bad-ass characters, sexual chemistry, and crazy sci-fi scenarios, it was going to be like the fat kid in Willy Wonkas chocolate factory. However, universally bad reviews, its clear that Ellis has been made to do his 'chores' for Marvel again. Joe Q has really raped Ellis schedule, and its massively effecting his high standards. I mean even his indie work at the moment is tepid.

My point is, Holly wood names shouldn't be attached to ongoings just for the sake of sales.

Originally posted by Digi


FC and RIP were mucked up with continuity issues, too much hype, and tie-in silliness.

Actually the only thing that has really ****ed up Final Crisis (the other criticisms its had generally amount to; 'i can't be arsed to read the wiki article about the new Gods, so the story is too hardcore for me'.) is Dan Didio. He chose to create another weekly linked to Grants pet project, without giving Dini and co an idea about Grants plans. He chose to name the story, "Final Crisis" when its actually just another "crisis" in a long line of past, present, and future Crisis's. He's the one who fooled everyone into believing that this had been planned since 2006.

to be fair, that kind of is his job. He is D.C.'s front man, revolving around P.R. and propaganda. Like any salesman, he's a lound to bullshit ... a little. Its our fault for believing him. We still have the right to hate him for it, though.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
I still think the Ultimates should have been treated like the Dark Knight/ Tangent universe, and only be written when a great new story comes a long. Putting someone on book just to keep it as an Ongoing is probably the biggest problem the industry. I mean look at Ellis on X-men. Joe Q knew that Warren Ellis name attached to any ongoing was going to put it in the top 20, look at T.Bolts. But its clear that Ellis hasn't wanted to write the stories he's been made to write. T.Bolts and New Universal were Ok, but very poor by his standards (Planetary, Global Frequency, Transmetroploitan, Storm watch, The Authority, in mind). When I saw he was on the X-men in the spring, i had a joy gasm in my pants. I thought that Ellis was finally given work he recognised he could thrive in. Political/moral dilemmas, bad-ass characters, sexual chemistry, and crazy sci-fi scenarios, it was going to be like the fat kid in Willy Wonkas chocolate factory. However, universally bad reviews, its clear that Ellis has been made to do his 'chores' for Marvel again. Joe Q has really raped Ellis schedule, and its massively effecting his high standards. I mean even his indie work at the moment is tepid.

My point is, Holly wood names shouldn't be attached to ongoings just for the sake of sales.

Totally agree with you in theory but I'd imagine that Ultimates would come out even more infrequently than it does now if that were the case and that's not what I want. I'm choosing well shipped bad stories over good ones that never make it to the shelf.....

Originally posted by Digi
Partially agreed, but a story doesn't have to be confusing to be complex. That's mostly Morrison's fault for making one seem synonymous with the other. It's possible to write a normal, coherent story that still works on many levels. Some of the more-lauded work I've been mentioning fits the bill for this description quite well.

That's the thing, neither Final Crisis nor Batman: RIP are confusing or incoherent. Those are relativly straight-forward, mystery stories, that leave people guessing until the end. Like I said, one of the main problems seems to be readers wanting to know everything front-up. Everybody was 'Why the hell has Batman gone crazy ? Who is the Batman of Zur-en-arhh ? What the hell is happening to him ?' when if you have patience and let the story develop it will all come together, and you should just enjoy the ride. The same with Final Crisis, and people who were confused on why it doesn't seem to make sense in context with Countdown and Death of the New Gods, which again, isn't neither Morrison or the main-series's fault, seeing as how Morrison explicitly told them not to include New Gods and such in those stories, and had the overall story and script for the first issue prepared even before Countdow started. Even more, Final Crisis: Secret Origins is out in which Morrison 'fixes' the discrepancies between the series.

Originally posted by Digi
Partially agreed, but a story doesn't have to be confusing to be complex. That's mostly Morrison's fault for making one seem synonymous with the other. It's possible to write a normal, coherent story that still works on many levels. Some of the more-lauded work I've been mentioning fits the bill for this description quite well. Over the years, I've found that I enjoy stories far more that have little to no tie-ins. Hell, I'm even fine with a story having a sizable amount of tie-ins, so long as I don't have to read them in order to get the gist of what's going on.

It makes the story far less enjoyable for me as a reader to have to keep up with a shitload of tie-ins, just so I can figure out what the hell is going on with the 'main' story. In most cases, I simply lose interest

A better example is the Secret Invasion event, where most of the action was going on in the tie-ins and where you pretty much were forced to get the Avengers tie-ins to get the whole picture. ermm

Originally posted by Galan007
I never really started reading Secret Invasion

Lucky you.

Originally posted by Digi
You seem adamant on talking about FC and RIP. I only tried to use those as examples when the conversation seemed to steer that direction. My original point had nothing to do with them, but was a more general statement about the potential for success, both commercial and critical, of more nuanced stories. You're more than entitled to your opinion of those particular arcs. But for whatever reason, they aren't being received well. But that's not true of every, or even the majority, of "complex" stories, which will never appeal to as many people as the flagship characters (due to the age of comic readers) but still have a large and dedicated fanbase.

I only used RIP and Final Crisis because those are the most recent examples to prove my point. Once more sophisticated stories appear in one of the big 2 companies, they aren't recived well compared to more simpler stories, which is like you said due to the age of the average comic reader. It's true, there are a number of people who read and enjoy complex stories, but those are not even close to the numbers on sales charts where I would call them succesfull. Thus why I said that the medium isn't really ready for sophisticated stories, and the action-packed ones will (sadly) top them for the forseeable future.

I suppose we're just defining success differently. One need not top sales charts to be successful. The same could be said of indie movies, for example. They can make money and find an audience without ever competing with big-studio productions.

I'm constantly bringing up the sales charts because it relates to my main point about the average comic reader's preference, and how simple stories are much more appealing compared to more complex ones, due to factors such as age. Anyway, we obviously know the other's views and what he wants to say so .. yeah.

wow ultimatum is just a giant pile of bodies, so many freaking characters just kicking the bucket with no regard to anything lol.

i mean come on, look at the list of casualties!

Dazzler,Beast,Nightcrawler, emma frost, sunspot, cannonball, polaris, +whole academy of tomorrow, longshot, forge, detonator, hardrive, charles xavier, wasp, blob, thor, giantman, daredevil

this just seems like one of those events that ends with everything reverting to how it was, like IG. of course it might not be handled like that but what does everyone else think of the body count? and did i miss anyone?

Originally posted by SevenShackles
Dazzler,Beast,Nightcrawler, emma frost, sunspot, cannonball, polaris, +whole academy of tomorrow, longshot, forge, detonator, hardrive, charles xavier, wasp, blob, thor, giantman, daredevil

Aside from Prof. X, Wasp and Thor, none of those characters were in any way interesting or even close to being on the level as their 616 counterparts.

And Loeb raped Ult. Thor during his run on the Ultimates so he's better off dead anyway

Originally posted by Grimm22
Aside from Prof. X, Wasp and Thor, none of those characters were in any way interesting or even close to being on the level as their 616 counterparts.

And Loeb raped Ult. Thor during his run on the Ultimates so he's better off dead anyway

can add multiple man and that chick from the brotherhood to the deathlist. its killing alot of potential.. yeah ultimates3 also butchered my fav mutant pyro. hero to rapist..sad sad.

really my point is its pretty sad that all this book can do is kill ppl to be interesting, why cant anyone who can.. you know.. write a interesting and maybe epic arc be put on the ultimates?!

i just hope for a interesting ending. or atleast something passingly entertaining.

poor loeb. just can't do anything right

Originally posted by guy222
poor loeb. just can't do anything right

^ What guy said.

Fck Loeb, I am waiting for the return of Mark Millar.

This is quite possibly the worst comic series I've ever read with the possible exception of Ultimates vol 3 which is surreal in itself considering the Ultimates vol 1 and 2 were two incredible series.......

It sells though, regardless if its crap or not. Loeb doesnt care because of this.

Well if I were paid by Marvel to write a story where I replaced the plot of a story for the death of half the Ultimate universe, I'm sure it would sell Anyone can do that and in fact I'd imagine a lot could do it better than it's being done....

Originally posted by willRules
Well if I were paid by Marvel to write a story where I replaced the plot of a story for the death of half the Ultimate universe, I'm sure it would sell Anyone can do that and in fact I'd imagine a lot could do it better than it's being done....

kinda how my conversation went with my gf

"hows this ultimatum thing?"

"well alot of characters have died so far"

"OMFG like in a epic battle for all humanity?! i want details!"

"nahhh it was a tidal wave and some suicide bombers later on that did most of the damage"

"....... so hows Punisher dark regin?"

yeahhh... =/ hoping for a good ending.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
really my point is its pretty sad that all this book can do is kill ppl to be interesting, why cant anyone who can.. you know.. write a interesting and maybe epic arc be put on the ultimates?!

They honestly should have put someone who can think of creative ways to kill people to write this.

Because if the entire series is just killing off characters at least make it entertaining.

Another thought that just came to mind was that despite how horrible his writing is nowadays, Loeb actually helped to inspire The Dark Knight, with the long haloween.

So he's not ALL bad

Oh I have nothing against Loeb. He's written some brilliant stuff. My point is, I simply don't care who is writing it, I care about the plot. To say the plot sucks in this story is a massive understatement. I've imagined better stories than this and I've imagined some pretty crap stories....

I just hop when Millar returns to the title he will resurrect the characters I liked (The Ultimates) ignore Loeb's run and just carry on like it didn't happen...... droolio

Originally posted by willRules
Oh I have nothing against Loeb. He's written some brilliant stuff. My point is, I simply don't care who is writing it, I care about the plot. To say the plot sucks in this story is a massive understatement. I've imagined better stories than this and I've imagined some pretty crap stories....

I just hop when Millar returns to the title he will resurrect the characters I liked (The Ultimates) ignore Loeb's run and just carry on like it didn't happen...... droolio

As long as Millar writes like he did during his run on the Ultimates and not like what he's doing now with the Fantastic Four, it will be a good thing.
(Seriously, his run of the FF is pretty much garbage if you ask me)

Originally posted by Grimm22
As long as Millar writes like he did during his run on the Ultimates and not like what he's doing now with the Fantastic Four, it will be a good thing.
(Seriously, his run of the FF is pretty much garbage if you ask me) actually I find his fantastic four to be at least interesting unlike the writer before him (I think it was mcduffie). The masters of Doom have sparked my curiosity and if played proper it could be a really good arc.

So many people died.

Why is this happening, is Marvel closing the Ultimate Universe?

Originally posted by Arahan
So many people died.

Why is this happening, is Marvel closing the Ultimate Universe?

Worse, they left Loeb alone in the Ultimate offices with a pen and paper (he's not allowed a computer.)

They're not closing it, just revamping it. The ultimate universe will limp on after this, just without everyone's favourite characters

My crap sense is tingling...as usual..Marvel sucks..

But i like Marvel Adeventures the Aventures.
Good and funny stories. No big plots just fun read.

I like the Spideman there too

Avengers Time Travel:

Pym: Thats a Celestial, its a time that wasnt recorded.
Spiderman: QUICK! Record it !!

Yeah, Millar's FF is crap. But its still better than Loeb's hunk of shit.

I am telling ya, hes writes soooo much crap, he stinks.

lol, I guess I'm in the minority here, but I kind of enjoy Ultimatum. Don't get me wrong, it's far from the best series I have read - but I've enjoyed the issues so far.

kinda

Originally posted by Galan007
lol, I guess I'm in the minority here, but I kind of enjoy Ultimatum. Don't get me wrong, it's far from the best series I have read - but I've enjoyed the issues so far.

kinda


You are not allowed that opinion. I have decreed it!

Well, the art is great!

Wow. I'm so glad I stopped reading ultimate stuff after a couple of issues of Ultimates 3.