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Why? Every DBZ forum people say so because "he's away all the time" even though 90% of the time he's dead....and how's that his fault?


Discuss.

Goku is a awsome fater to his sons, hes not always there for te litle things but the guy has to sae the universe!!...like superman, he has to ut his responsibility to the people before the things he wants!! Gohan wud often aspire to be like his fater, i think many of us a hav..

I know, but:

http://www.fanfiction.net/topic/2977/4398301/1/
http://www.animea.net/forums/f9/who-beter-father-vegeta-goku-25686/
http://comipress.com/article/2006/11/19/1033
and a few others.

As a big Vegeta fan, I hated Goku till somewhere along the android saga. I didn't like him at all till somewhere in the Buu saga. I like him more now that its all over and I can look back on it, I respect him. but as for being a father or a husband, Goku is terrible. I can't tell you how annoyed I was that once again Goku was leaving his family and this time it was some bullshit reason like to train with some kid. and don't get me started on Goku throwing his barely teenage son into the lions den against Cell.

Come on...for some reason, I really want an answer to this question.

So Goku is an evil person who doesn't love his children and all of the many times he saved their lives was just done for some wierd reason?

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
So Goku is an evil person who doesn't love his children and all of the many times he saved their lives was just done for some wierd reason?

I didn't say that, he is a great person, totally selfless yadda yadda yadda, but he was just a terrible father and an even worse husband. He didn't do it on purpose and he didn't realize how shitty he was in those roles but he still was. Sayains in general are probably meant to be like that but even Vegeta adapted eventually. oh yeah and he was a shitty friend too unless someone was about to blow up the world.

Originally posted by TheBadguy
As a big Vegeta fan, I hated Goku till somewhere along the android saga. I didn't like him at all till somewhere in the Buu saga. I like him more now that its all over and I can look back on it, I respect him. but as for being a father or a husband, Goku is terrible. I can't tell you how annoyed I was that once again Goku was leaving his family and this time it was some bullshit reason like to train with some kid. and don't get me started on Goku throwing his barely teenage son into the lions den against Cell.

Well about that he did it for the the good of the world. He knew that he may die against Cell hence the night of sex for Goten. He knew Gohan's potential and figured that if he couldn't do it then Gohan was the next best person for the job so he trained him in order to do it. He can't be that bad of a father if he came back to help his son from the dead. Whats the point of being a stay at home dad taking care of your family when the world is about be destroyed?

"Oh sorry Cell/Vegeta/Frieza/Buu I can't fight you and defend the world including my family because I have to spend some quality time with my family."

Originally posted by TheBadguy
I didn't say that, he is a great person, totally selfless yadda yadda yadda, but he was just a terrible father and an even worse husband. He didn't do it on purpose and he didn't realize how shitty he was in those roles but he still was. Sayains in general are probably meant to be like that but even Vegeta adapted eventually. oh yeah and he was a shitty friend too unless someone was about to blow up the world.

What about how he saved Gohan's life during the Namek, Freiza, Android, Cell games and bassinet every saga?

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Well about that he did it for the the good of the world. He knew that he may die against Cell hence the night of sex for Goten. He knew Gohan's potential and figured that if he couldn't do it then Gohan was the next best person for the job so he trained him in order to do it. He can't be that bad of a father if he came back to help his son from the dead. Whats the point of being a stay at home dad taking care of your family when the world is about be destroyed?

"Oh sorry Cell/Vegeta/Frieza/Buu I can't fight you and defend the world including my family because I have to spend some quality time with my family."


The only time Goku ever bothered was when the world was in danger. In times of peace either ran off to live with some kid or he was staying dead so he could train and fight in heaven. In all those years he didn't even bother to comeback and see his son for the first time, he cameback to fight in a tournament. In 10 years he had only seen his friends once and they had to come find him, the guy who knows Instant Transmission. Against Cell he bs'd his way through, he didn't even try. From the beginning he was planning to just throw it all in his kids lap.

1. Let his son get drunk
2. Let his son miss tons of school
3. Let his son almost get killed
4. Let his son go to namek by himself
5. Left him fatherless for years to come
6. At the end of GT left his son to do Goku.
7. Bitched Slapped Chichi into a house
8. Let him hang around master rochi

many the list goes on

Originally posted by TheBadguy
The only time Goku ever bothered was when the world was in danger. In times of peace either ran off to live with some kid or he was staying dead so he could train and fight in heaven. In all those years he didn't even bother to comeback and see his son for the first time, he cameback to fight in a tournament. In 10 years he had only seen his friends once and they had to come find him, the guy who knows Instant Transmission. Against Cell he bs'd his way through, he didn't even try. From the beginning he was planning to just throw it all in his kids lap.

Like I said because he wanted his son to be able to defend the world in case he was to ever die. He needed him to be ready to accept that responsibility. You can not fault him for training to be stronger for a couple of reasons.

1. it's in his nature as a Saiyan, they are a warrior race so it is instinct.
2. He had to make sure he was strong enough to take on any challenge that comes his way.

He didn't have much of a choice when he was dead, he couldn't just walk out and return to his life.

Originally posted by Csdabest
1. Let his son get drunk
2. Let his son miss tons of school
3. Let his son almost get killed
4. Let his son go to namek by himself
5. Left him fatherless for years to come
6. At the end of GT left his son to do Goku.
7. Bitched Slapped Chichi into a house
8. Let him hang around master rochi

many the list goes on

1. When did he let Gohan get drunk?
2. Let him miss school so he could train to protect the world.
3. When did he let him almost get killed.
4A. Wasn't he hospitalized? There was some reason why he didn't go at first.
4B. Namek is supposed to be a peaceful planet they didn't know Frieza would bet there.
4C. He didn't let him go alone. Krillin and Bulma went as well.
5. You do know that he didn't have enough fuel in Frieza's ship to go so he had to learn how to IT and train at whatever planet he was at?
6. GT doesn't count besides they were both grown at the end of GT.
7. When did he slap her?
8. What is your point?

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Like I said because he wanted his son to be able to defend the world in case he was to ever die. He needed him to be ready to accept that responsibility. You can not fault him for training to be stronger for a couple of reasons.

1. it's in his nature as a Saiyan, they are a warrior race so it is instinct.
2. He had to make sure he was strong enough to take on any challenge that comes his way.

He didn't have much of a choice when he was dead, he couldn't just walk out and return to his life.



Yes I can. His son was barely a teenager, you can train him all you want but I can definitely fault him for putting the fate of the universe in a kids hands when he clearly wasn't ready, and while he was still more than capable. If he had bothered to actually know his son he would have known that Gohan just isn't that guy. Piccolo knew it and Goku eventually realized he was wrong. He had plenty of choice, Goku had zipped around between Earth, Heaven, and Hell on whims all the time with IT. and even without that he was able to get strings pulled to let him comeback for the tournament but he didn't bother with that to comeback and see his son whom had never even seen him before.


Goku smacking ChiChi through the house, a tree and a boulder
http://s4.tinypic.com/2e655kp.jpg
http://s4.tinypic.com/10zoks1.jpg

Pretty sure Vegeta is a better father than Goku is.
Let's compare how they react when their sons are in mortal danger.
Vegeta:
Goes berserk when Trunks is killed by Cell.
Goku:
Slacks off at training because he's "confident Gohan can beat Cell".
Vegeta:
Sacrifices himself in an attempt to destroy Majin Buu for the sake of his family and friends.
Goku: Saves a shameless fraud instead of his own sons when Buu blows up the earth.

who cares about goku's fathering habits HE IS THE SAVIOR OF THE UNIVERSE for c***st sakes

Eh Gohan, Vegeta, and Mr. Satan are also.

Gokou is just a bad father and husband. Him saving the day has nothing to do with him being either one of those. And in times of peace he doesn't even talk with his friends since at the beginning of Z they didn't even know he had a 4 year old son. I think the only thing that kept the Son and Brief family together at EoZ was Goten and Trunks.

Originally posted by Csdabest
7. Bitched Slapped Chichi into a house


Lol i think he b1tch slapped her through a house wall and into a tree actually.

Originally posted by Kento
And in times of peace he doesn't even talk with his friends since at the beginning of Z they didn't even know he had a 4 year old son. I think the only thing that kept the Son and Brief family together at EoZ was Goten and Trunks.


and at the end of dbz after the 10 years pass, none of his friends even see him for the whole 10 years. Even longer for Tien/Yamcha/Choautzu whom he never sees. Bulma and Vegeta had to come find him.

Originally posted by TheBadguy
and at the end of dbz after the 10 years pass, none of his friends even see him for the whole 10 damn years. Even longer for Tien/Yamcha/Choautzu whom he never sees. Bulma and Vegeta had to come find him. Which is why I think the only reason the Son/Briefs family stayed connected was because Goten and Trunks. Seeing as how the only reunion they had was five years before EoZ that wasn't shown, which Gokou didn't go to anyway.

And Tien never sees anybody. He left and never talked to anybody as soon as Gokou died. He's as bad as Gokou when it comes to that stuff. Though the only true friend he actually has is probably Chiaotzu anyway though and they are always together.

Goku is just a social dick, even to his family, his friends as well.

While alive, if the universe isn't about to get blown up, the guy with Instant Transmission who can pinpoint people weaker than alot of his friends from across the universe, can't spare some time to go see them.

He pretty much just watched as Gohan was having the shit kicked out of him by Cell, and slacked off during training because he thought Gohan would take the challenge and everything would be alright. Including himself, at least 3 people died the day of the tournament.

Goku actually wanted to stay dead, despite what his family and friends would have wanted. Leaving Chi-Chi husbandless, and Gohan and the soon-to-be born Goten fatherless.

He never respects his wife's wishes. I mean, seriously, she asks him not to do something, he'll do it anyway. Like letting their son skip school to train. She's her son too.

He slapped her through a wall, a boulder, and a tree. Lol.

Goku is an awesome guy for the most part. However, when it comes to family that's an issue. It seems like he's always disappearing for long periods of time. Although it was cool to see Gohan go SSJ2, Goku should have been at the front the entire time, gave himself time to heal and fought him to his last breath. When Goku went through a mass amount of suffering with Cell, Gohan's power could have been unleashed because his need to aid to his father would have given him the edge he needed to take go SSJ2 and take on Cell. Just to trigger power from his son was a horrible reason for Goku to put Gohan in front of Cell.

Originally posted by Csdabest
1. Let his son get drunk
2. Let his son miss tons of school
3. Let his son almost get killed
4. Let his son go to namek by himself
5. Left him fatherless for years to come
6. At the end of GT left his son to do Goku.
7. Bitched Slapped Chichi into a house
8. Let him hang around master rochi

many the list goes on

Read Wei's post

Originally posted by TheBadguy
The only time Goku ever bothered was when the world was in danger. In times of peace either ran off to live with some kid or he was staying dead so he could train and fight in heaven. In all those years he didn't even bother to comeback and see his son for the first time, he cameback to fight in a tournament. In 10 years he had only seen his friends once and they had to come find him, the guy who knows Instant Transmission. Against Cell he bs'd his way through, he didn't even try. From the beginning he was planning to just throw it all in his kids lap.

HOW CAN YOU COME BACK IF YOU'RE DEAD?

Originally posted by TheBadguy
Yes I can. His son was barely a teenager, you can train him all you want but I can definitely fault him for putting the fate of the universe in a kids hands when he clearly wasn't ready, and while he was still more than capable. If he had bothered to actually know his son he would have known that Gohan just isn't that guy. Piccolo knew it and Goku eventually realized he was wrong. He had plenty of choice, Goku had zipped around between Earth, Heaven, and Hell on whims all the time with IT. and even without that he was able to get strings pulled to let him comeback for the tournament but he didn't bother with that to comeback and see his son whom had never even seen him before.


Goku smacking ChiChi through the house, a tree and a boulder
http://s4.tinypic.com/2e655kp.jpg
http://s4.tinypic.com/10zoks1.jpg

I know, it was a little bit stupid of him, but it wasn't intentionally cruel: he wasn't like "oh, I want to get Gohan willed so I'll..."

That was an ACCIDENT



Originally posted by jimBOFH
Pretty sure Vegeta is a better father than Goku is.
Let's compare how they react when their sons are in mortal danger.
Vegeta:
Goes berserk when Trunks is killed by Cell.
Goku:
Slacks off at training because he's "confident Gohan can beat Cell".
Vegeta:
Sacrifices himself in an attempt to destroy Majin Buu for the sake of his family and friends.
Goku: Saves a shameless fraud instead of his own sons when Buu blows up the earth.

Vegeta never even hugged Trunks. Did you see how he treated future trunks (up until he got hit by cell)? He also hit Trunks for trying to help him in the time chamber. Goku on the other hand spent almost all his time training Gohan.

Originally posted by Kento
Eh Gohan, Vegeta, and Mr. Satan are also.

Gokou is just a bad father and husband. Him saving the day has nothing to do with him being either one of those. And in times of peace he doesn't even talk with his friends since at the beginning of Z they didn't even know he had a 4 year old son. I think the only thing that kept the Son and Brief family together at EoZ was Goten and Trunks.

He does talk with his family what are you talking about?

Originally posted by Terryc250
Lol i think he b1tch slapped her through a house wall and into a tree actually.

BY ACCIDENT

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Goku is just a social dick, even to his family, his friends as well.

While alive, if the universe isn't about to get blown up, the guy with Instant Transmission who can pinpoint people weaker than alot of his friends from across the universe, can't spare some time to go see them.

He pretty much just watched as Gohan was having the shit kicked out of him by Cell, and slacked off during training because he thought Gohan would take the challenge and everything would be alright. Including himself, at least 3 people died the day of the tournament.

Goku actually wanted to stay dead, despite what his family and friends would have wanted. Leaving Chi-Chi husbandless, and Gohan and the soon-to-be born Goten fatherless.

He never respects his wife's wishes. I mean, seriously, she asks him not to do something, he'll do it anyway. Like letting their son skip school to train. She's her son too.

He slapped her through a wall, a boulder, and a tree. Lol.

he doesn't care about gohan's studying because he never studied himself so he doesn't see the importance, not because he wants gohan to be bad.

And GOKU'S SAVED GOHAN'S LIFE COUNTLESS TIMES!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
And GOKU'S SAVED GOHAN'S LIFE COUNTLESS TIMES!!!!!!!!
Saving Gohan's life is not the same as being a good father. I mean, letting Gohan DIE would make him a bad father, but saving him does not automatically make him a good father.

And Goku may spend lots of time training Gohan for the Cell games- but if you equate "being a good father" with "does lots of martial arts training", then Vegeta must be the most awesome father in the world- he spends years training Trunks, while Goku is off in Otherworld- i know he was dead, but he CHOSE not to be resurrected.

Goku has comeback from the dead with Instant Transmission more than once. Nothing not even being dead can really control Goku, he basically has free reign in his reality, he does what he wants. Even outside of Instant Transmission he was able to get strings pulled that allowed him to comeback for a tournament. Not once did he IT or get the strings pulled to comeback to Earth to visit his wife and teenage son, let alone the son he had never even seen.


Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
And GOKU'S SAVED GOHAN'S LIFE COUNTLESS TIMES!!!!!!!!

More to being a good parent than showing up every 5 years to save your son, especially when you are the one that threw him in front of a super powerful murderer in the first place.

Originally posted by TheBadguy
Goku has comeback from the dead with Instant Transmission more than once. Nothing not even being dead can really control Goku, he basically has free reign in his reality, he does what he wants. Even outside of Instant Transmission he was able to get strings pulled that allowed him to comeback for a tournament. Not once did he IT or get the strings pulled to comeback to Earth to visit his wife and teenage son, let alone the son he had never even seen.




More to being a good parent than showing up every 5 years to save your son, especially when you are the one that threw him in front of a super powerful murderer in the first place.

http://community.livejournal.com/hated_character/386347.html

Besides, go watch how Goku treats Gohan in the time chamber.

So what? And i didn't say that Goku was intentionally being a bad father- he's just a socially retarded moron when it comes to his family.
He doesn't develop, personality-wise, at all during Dragonball and Dragonball Z. His innocence and naive nature were acceptable and charming in a 12 year old boy or whatever at the beginning of Dragonball- as a 50 year old grandfather they're not.
Sure, when he focuses on his family etc he's a really nice guy- if he wasn't a halfwit he'd probably make a really good dad- unfortunately, he's an idiot when it comes to anything that's not fighting.

but he does care for his family and isn't a careless heartless father like some people think.

Goku has Instant Transmission, he can comeback from Heaven and Hell at will and he didn't. He only cared to comeback for the tournament. and its not like they couldn't use the namek dragonballs, if he wanted to comeback they would have got him back. Anyway none of that goes against what I said, I already said in this thread that after Piccolo chastised him he realized he was wrong. and I never said Goku didn't love them. Nobody in here said Goku was a careless or heartless anything, he is benevolent but is unaware of how bad he is as a parent husband and friend.

My main question is if you think Goku is a loving father.

Well yeah, but he's incompetent. Vegeta might rarely state his true feelings (generally only when death is imminent) but at least he's generally reasonably intelligent and observant. Goku is a nice guy, but he doesn't think about anyone else most of the time- not in the sense that he doesn't care about them compared to himself, but that he actually never thinks about them- it's completely unintentional but it results in him neglecting his friends and family completely.
I'd bet that the only time he remembered about half of his friendsin the 10 years between Buu and EoZ was if he felt Piccolo, Vegeta or Trunks powering up during training.

Goku cares more about himself? When was Goku selfish? he's the opposite.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Goku cares more about himself? When was Goku selfish? he's the opposite.
I didn't say he was selfish- i said that he never thinks about others while he's off training- as in, the thought never enters his head, he's not thinking "I'd rather train than pay attention to my friends/family".
Compare to Vegeta- he does very little else but train, and he is a more selfish person- but because he actually thinks about his family and friends, he ends up doing more with them, and staying in contact more, than Goku.
Yes i think Goku is a loving person and father. But a loving moron is still a moron.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
My main question is if you think Goku is a loving father.


Yes. but at best he is just an ok parent.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
That was an ACCIDENT

How do you accidently backhand slap someone? Knocking her through the wall, tree, and boulder was an accident, but that backhand pimp-slap was no accident :P

It was a friendly "pat" on the back, not intended to be a "slap"

Goku is not the perfect guy that he's made out to be- he's got good intentions, but have you ever heard the phrase "The road to hell is paved with good intentions?"
Anyway, here's my take on him- on the positive side, he's friendly, merciful, generous and will never knowingly do anything evil or that hurts others. He's also innocent- but innocence isn't the same as being good. Innocence is the lack of knowledge, and therefore temptation. It's like saying that lack of fear is the same thing as courage- it isn't. Courage is standing up to fear, Fearlessness is having no fear to begin with. Innocence is not being aware of temptation- virtue is being fully aware of it and resisting.
So Goku is innocent, but in some ways this actually makes him a worse person. At the beginning of Dragonball, Goku is so innocent that he regularly gropes people to determine their gender- compared to Oolong who is most definitely not innocent, but rarely gropes people. It's the same sort of thing throughout his life. We can't blame Goku for being innocent- but that doesn't mean that it's always a good thing.
This is why I think Piccolo and Vegeta are more believable, and admirable characters- they choose to be good, whereas it's hard-wired in to Goku to be "innocent".

Originally posted by jimBOFH
I didn't say he was selfish- i said that he never thinks about others while he's off training

He is training so he can protect them.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
he doesn't care about gohan's studying because he never studied himself so he doesn't see the importance, not because he wants gohan to be bad. Being an idiot is no excuse.

Oh, and to add to that, it was not bad enough he made his son fight Cell, but he gave Cell a fvckin SENZU BEAN.

Seriously, wtf is up with that shit?

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
He is training so he can protect them.
O rly? Against whom, exactly? At EoZ the 5 strongest fighters in the Universe are all on Earth- Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Gotenks and Buu. He's training because he loves to fight- that's pretty clear when he starts training Buu. It's the same with Vegeta- it's in their Saiyan blood after all. And Vegeta manages to train without neglecting his family. Goku's training in otherworld can't be seen in that light either- he's got no intention of coming back when he starts that training.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Being an idiot is no excuse.

Oh, and to add to that, it was not bad enough he made his son fight Cell, but he gave Cell a fvckin SENZU BEAN.

Seriously, wtf is up with that shit?


I forgot about that. It made sense when on Namek and he gave Vegeta one, Vegeta saved his son and friends lives. To give one to Cell..total dick move, Goku can just be really really dumb sometimes.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Read Wei's post



HOW CAN YOU COME BACK IF YOU'RE DEAD?



I know, it was a little bit stupid of him, but it wasn't intentionally cruel: he wasn't like "oh, I want to get Gohan willed so I'll..."

That was an ACCIDENT





Vegeta never even hugged Trunks. Did you see how he treated future trunks (up until he got hit by cell)? He also hit Trunks for trying to help him in the time chamber. Goku on the other hand spent almost all his time training Gohan.



He does talk with his family what are you talking about?



BY ACCIDENT



he doesn't care about gohan's studying because he never studied himself so he doesn't see the importance, not because he wants gohan to be bad. Hence why I said friends not family.

Originally posted by TheBadguy
I forgot about that. It made sense when on Namek and he gave Vegeta one, Vegeta saved his son and friends lives. To give one to Cell..total dick move, Goku can just be really really dumb sometimes. He might as well of helped Cell beat the shit out of Gohan...

Well in Gokou's defense...Gohan could have avoided the beating he got if he hadn't tried to talk with Cell and fought.

Though that doesn't excuse Gokou from putting his pacifist son against a warrior.

Exactly.

Gohan is a well known to be nigh-pacisfistic.

Cell is well known to be a cold-blooded killer.

Gohan at that point was not even more powerful than Cell, only when he transformed was he.

Goku even admitted he slacked during training because he was confident Gohan could handle it.

Seriously, 3 people died in that fight, including Goku himself, and the rest were wounded.

All that shit could have been avoided if he trained harder, and if he didn't give Cell a fricky dicky Senzu Bean.

It's probably kind of sad Piccolo knows Gohan better than Gokou. Then again Piccolo has been around Gohan for like five more years than Gokou has.

Gohan was at least even with Cell though. He wasn't exactly hurt until Cell used his superior strength to try and crush him in a bear hug. Cell's blast didn't phase him, and he if I recall he was able to dodge Cell also after Cell powered up stronger than what he was at fighting Gokou.

Three? Who was the third. Gokou, and Trunks but who else died besides Cell.

Originally posted by Kento
It's probably kind of sad Piccolo knows Gohan better than Gokou. Then again Piccolo has been around Gohan for like five more years than Gokou has.

Gohan was at least even with Cell though. He wasn't exactly hurt until Cell used his superior strength to try and crush him in a bear hug. Cell's blast didn't phase him, and he if I recall he was able to dodge Cell also after Cell powered up stronger than what he was at fighting Gokou.

Three? Who was the third. Gokou, and Trunks but who else died besides Cell. 1. Yeah...Well one of the years can be attributed to Goku being dead...But wtf was up with the Yardrat bullshit? Once he learned IT, he should of at least gone back to Earth to tell his friends real quick that he is alright. Maybe made the sexytimes with Chi-Chi.

2. True, but Cell was more brutal, and was trying to kill Gohan. That is the prevalent difference between them.

3. Android 16. Cell stomped on his head.

A cold-hearted villain becomes a better father figure than Gokou. What's up with that?

Oh right the robot. Why didn't Bulma rebuild him?

...He was blown to pieces.

Well if Bulma was such a genius she should have saved his data after fixing him up the first time, and just rebuilt him from that. 16 was cooler than 18 and 17.

I agree, 16 was the penultimate shiznit.

She should have saved his data, yeah.

She didn't.

And I would actually wager Dr. Gero might just be smarter than Bulma.

I would to. But not smarter than Dr. Briefs.

Why not?

Made Androids that could rival or surpass SSJs, some could drain Ki when their reserves were low, the others had infinite power, but because of such they were not easily controlled.

Well didn't Briefs invent all the stuff at capsule corp? Along with upgrading alien technology that was pretty much more advanced than what was on Earth.

Was it him or Bulma that invented the dragon radar?

Originally posted by Kento
A cold-hearted villain becomes a better father figure than Gokou. What's up with that?
Heh. Never thought of it that way before, but it's totally true...

And yeah. Poor 16.. but at least he died a true hero, IMO.

Originally posted by Kento
Was it him or Bulma that invented the dragon radar?
I'm pretty sure it was Bulma.

Bulma invented the Radar. However i think Dr Briefs is smarter, as he upgrades the Saiyan space pod to be 6 times faster the speed of light (this is based on Bulma's statement that the fastest earth rocket would take 4000 years to get to namek, but the namek ship does it in 3 months and the upgraded Saiyan pod in a week. I assumed that the fastest earth rocket speed was about the speed of Apollo 10, the fastest manned craft)

Originally posted by Kento
Well didn't Briefs invent all the stuff at capsule corp? Along with upgrading alien technology that was pretty much more advanced than what was on Earth.

Was it him or Bulma that invented the dragon radar? Well Brief's tech involves more practical uses like travel and shit.

Dr. Gero made beings that are more powerful than SSJs, and made Cell, who can absorb living matter, and with nothing but a simple robot fly, was able to give Cell powers of the different characters, even that of Freeza's power to survive any wound no matter how detrimental.

He thought that Gohan would fight Cell and beat him, but he didn't intend to have Cell win. It was unintentional. And Vegeta NEVER EVEN HUGGED TRUNKS!!!!!!!! Also, he refused to train w/future trunks, whereas Goku did train Gohan the entire time. Vegeta also said once to Future Trunks that Bulma wasn't important to him. Goku may be an idiot, but at least he cares about his children, whereas Vegeta didn't care about anyone until the late buu saga.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
He thought that Gohan would fight Cell and beat him, but he didn't intend to have Cell win. It was unintentional. And Vegeta NEVER EVEN HUGGED TRUNKS!!!!!!!! Also, he refused to train w/future trunks, whereas Goku did train Gohan the entire time. Vegeta also said once to Future Trunks that Bulma wasn't important to him. Goku may be an idiot, but at least he cares about his children, whereas Vegeta didn't care about anyone until the late buu saga. Vegeta likes to act like he doesn't care. If he didn't care he wouldn't have went all crazy when Trunks was killed. And also..He probably didn't care about Bulma then. They probably didn't really form a bond until the seven years of peace. Having a kid with somebody doesn't mean you like them. And the reason he never hugged Present Trunks was because of his personality. He's not suppose to care about anything. That's why he wanted Babadi to control him. To stop caring about Bulma and Trunks and to go back to the way he was before then. Besides..Nobody would ever accuse Vegeta of being a good father. Except to maybe Bra.

Originally posted by Kento
Vegeta likes to act like he doesn't care. If he didn't care he wouldn't have went all crazy when Trunks was killed. And also..He probably didn't care about Bulma then. They probably didn't really form a bond until the seven years of peace. Having a kid with somebody doesn't mean you like them. And the reason he never hugged Present Trunks was because of his personality. He's not suppose to care about anything. That's why he wanted Babadi to control him. To stop caring about Bulma and Trunks and to go back to the way he was before then. Besides..Nobody would ever accuse Vegeta of being a good father. Except to maybe Bra.

That's what I'm trying to say... Goku might be bad at "fathering", but that's because of stupidity and never having a true father, not bad intentions.

And at least Goku shows his love, but Vegeta "loves" Trunks but rarely shows it except on a few occasions.

Gokou shows his love about as much as Vegeta. Gokou hasn't ever really shown hugging Gohan, nor talking about how he cares so much for him because he is his son. He only married ChiChi because he promised her and that was because he thought it was food. Not much love for that marriage happening either.

Originally posted by Kento
Gokou shows his love about as much as Vegeta. Gokou hasn't ever really shown hugging Gohan, nor talking about how he cares so much for him because he is his son. He only married ChiChi because he promised her and that was because he thought it was food. Not much love for that marriage happening either.

At least he's nice to Gohan, but Vegeta, eh.....

Gokou is usually nice to everybody. Even the person trying to kill him.

Originally posted by Kento
Gokou is usually nice to everybody. Even the person trying to kill him.

And?

Being nice to Gohan like he does everybody else even his enemies doesn't mean much.

That's true, but people say that Vegeta was a better father which is just...... wierd.

Besides, who would YOU rather have as a father? I think you'd say "GOKU", right?

Well Vegeta IS the better father. To Bra anyways. Which Gokou was never a good father to either of his children.

Not really. Gokou would never be around, I wouldn't know him, he wouldn't know me. At least with Vegeta there is an explanation. Vegeta is just cold-hearted. Gokou would rather be off training than spending time with anybody yet he's nice to everybody so I'd be wonder what the heck was up. I'd know Vegeta didn't like me for a fact but that it wasn't just me and Vegeta hates everybody while I would wonder if Gokou did or not or if the whole liking was just a facade because of his personality.

But is it his fault that he's away? Think about it: 90% of the time it's because he's dead.

Because he didn't want to be wished back. Or chose not to come back like when he survived Namek until a year later.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
He thought that Gohan would fight Cell and beat him, but he didn't intend to have Cell win. It was unintentional. And Vegeta NEVER EVEN HUGGED TRUNKS!!!!!!!! Also, he refused to train w/future trunks, whereas Goku did train Gohan the entire time. Vegeta also said once to Future Trunks that Bulma wasn't important to him. Goku may be an idiot, but at least he cares about his children, whereas Vegeta didn't care about anyone until the late buu saga.

It's true that at the beginning of the Android Saga, Vegeta doesn't love Bulma or Trunks. Unlike Goku however, Vegeta actually develops as a character over the series- whereas Goku never grows up from the little kid personality he has at the beginning of dragonball.
But he does bond with Future Trunks over the year in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, and by the time of the Cell Games he clearly loves Bulma and Trunks. The fact that he doesn't often show his feelings is just part of who he is- perhaps due to growing up as a hostage of Friezas's. If you think about it, the only times Vegeta shows any emotion are usually when he knows he's about to die.

In terms of doing what's right for his kids, as opposed to being a nice guy, I think Vegeta is a better father than Goku- because he's THERE for his kids.

Originally posted by jimBOFH
In terms of doing what's right for his kids, as opposed to being a nice guy, I think Vegeta is a better father than Goku- because he's THERE for his kids. Being around doesn't really make Vegeta a better father. You can be a bad father and still be around.

Originally posted by Kento
Being around doesn't really make Vegeta a better father. You can be a bad father and still be around.
It's not the fact that he's around, it's the fact that Goku isn't around. I'm not saying that Vegeta is the perfect father- but he does love his kids and want the best for them. Seeing as Vegeta actually spends time with his kids and Goku doesn't, I'd say that Vegeta is a better father than Goku is.

Originally posted by jimBOFH
It's not the fact that he's around, it's the fact that Goku isn't around. I'm not saying that Vegeta is the perfect father- but he does love his kids and want the best for them. Seeing as Vegeta actually spends time with his kids and Goku doesn't, I'd say that Vegeta is a better father than Goku is.

So does Goku.

Vegeta is worse, because Goku spends a lot of time w/his kids when he's there (which, I admit isn't that often), whereas Vegeta is always there and has all of the time in the world to spend time w/his kids.... but rarely ever does so.

...Yes he is.

We see him training Trunks, while still having Bulma teach him mathz and shitz, and he says if Trunks trains well, he will take him to an amusement park...That's a kickass dad.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
...Yes he is.

We see him training Trunks, while still having Bulma teach him mathz and shitz, and he says if Trunks trains well, he will take him to an amusement park...That's a kickass dad.

I meant that "but he does love his kids and want the best for them"

And Trunks is so suprised that he said that, meaning he rarely does so.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
So does Goku.

Vegeta is worse, because Goku spends a lot of time w/his kids when he's there (which, I admit isn't that often), whereas Vegeta is always there and has all of the time in the world to spend time w/his kids.... but rarely ever does so.
Sif, he spends like 12 hours a day training Trunks. And yes, Vegeta rarely does things like go to an amusement park etc- but he's willing to do it because he knows his son likes it, but in return he expects Trunks to train hard.

since when does he spend 12 hours a day training trunks?

During the Great Saiyaman Saga- Vegeta spends most of his time training with Trunks. Bulma comments on it when Gohan asks where he is- he says "Isn't Trunks a bit young to be training with Vegeta?" and Bulma says that in Vegeta's opinion "If he's old enough to walk, then he's old enough to train".

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
I meant that "but he does love his kids and want the best for them"

And Trunks is so suprised that he said that, meaning he rarely does so. Rarely does beats never doing it. Which would be Gokou's case. Gokou's idea of a treat would be if you hit me I'll give you a few minutes to rest.

I think it might be that Goku doesn't understand that, to Gohan, the idea of more fighting isn't actually a reward as such :P

He probably also needed to realize forcing your 17 year old son to dump his date to train with you just to get beaten by your 4 year old granddaughter isn't very fatherly. Good thing Goten can just say that the loosing part is filler and didn't happen.

Exactly. Though admittedly Vegeta's not too much better in terms of letting Trunks off training to go on dates, in GT anyways.

Well Vegeta does force Trunks to enter the tournament..but doesn't force him to train with him for no reason.

This is true. Vegeta trains Trunks to win, not to lose to 4 year old quarter-Saiyans.

I'd still like to know how that tournament turned out. Besides the fact Mr. Satan wins the whole tournament is a complete mystery except Trunks' fight against so weird gay guy, and Pan's fight against that huge guy.

Well, once Goku leaves, i'd have to say Vegeta is almost certainly the strongest one there. However, it's entirely possible he doesn't bother fighting after Goku leaves.

Personally if you disregard the anime showing Goten loosing to Pan I think Vegeta forfeits, and the final two come down to Goten vs Trunks and the winner lets Satan beat them.

Wait- doesn't Goten have to fight Buu in the first round? So if he lost to Pan...then he beat Buu...wtf!?

Okay, okay. Think about it:

Goku wanted to stay dead because he thought that him being there would endanger the planet.

Goku did not intend to have Gohan get almost killed by Cell: he thought Gohan would have the will to fight Cell.

Goku is never shown hugging Gohan, but it is assumed that he does because that is normal, whereas it was said that Vegeta never hugged trunks.

Goku comes down from heaven to save Gohan.

Let's compare two scenes w/Goku/Gohan and Vegeta/Trunks in the time chamber:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpS3ZoWr-0Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH_m90FTK7E

Goku intended to save Gohan and the others, but saw Dende and Hercules and though "hey minus well save them TOO" but miscalculated and didn't have time to save the others

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Okay, okay. Think about it:

Goku wanted to stay dead because he thought that him being there would endanger the planet.

Goku did not intend to have Gohan get almost killed by Cell: he thought Gohan would have the will to fight Cell.

Goku is never shown hugging Gohan, but it is assumed that he does because that is normal, whereas it was said that Vegeta never hugged trunks.

Goku comes down from heaven to save Gohan.

Let's compare two scenes w/Goku/Gohan and Vegeta/Trunks in the time chamber:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpS3ZoWr-0Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH_m90FTK7E

Goku intended to save Gohan and the others, but saw Dende and Hercules and though "hey minus well save them TOO" but miscalculated and didn't have time to save the others

Which doesn't really give him the right to abandon everybody. And it doesn't change the fact he didn't want to come back to Earth after Namek's explosion if I recall and took a year to return.

Which means Gokou doesn't know Gohan at all. While Piccolo does. Doesn't help Gokou's case.

Gokou's usually just training with Gohan. He never has much time for anything else. He doesn't care about anybody elses feelings at all.

Are you talking about the Kamehameha war or Bojack movie?

He knew he didn't have time to IT more than once. He wanted to save them but couldn't. But that just makes Gokou the nice guy he is that wants to save everybody. It had nothing to do with his sons. Vegeta got extremely angry that Trunks wasn't saved while Gokou was sad he couldn't do anything to save Piccolo, Trunks, or his sons.

Originally posted by jimBOFH
Wait- doesn't Goten have to fight Buu in the first round? So if he lost to Pan...then he beat Buu...wtf!? Yes, yes he does. lol Maybe he was worn out from fighting Buu..or Gohan was staring at him angrily so he didn't hurt Pan so he lost on purpose. Or how cool would it be to see a teen beat up a kid? When he can play off loosing as being nice.

It's endangering the entire planet.

Doesn't mean he doesn't know Gohan, he just wasn't thinking logically.

Goku doesn't care about anyone's feelings? I thought he was a hero!

Both

He doesn't need to do 2 ITs, he could just grab them all and do one. But he was too slow, it's not because he cared about hercules and dende more than Gohan, Goten, Trunks and Piccilo.

He beat Buu? LOL I have a Q though: why doesn't Buu regenerate during/after the buu vs kid buu fight like he always does? He needed dende.

Except that was just Gokou trying to justify not coming back.

Gokou MADE Gohan fight Cell thinking Gohan would fight back. He needed Piccolo to tell him Gohan was a pacifist. Gokou thinks Gohan is like him when he's not. He doesn't know Gohan at all. He knows Gohan's power that is it.

Being a hero = caring about how people feel? Like how he made Gohan fight, or made Gohan train even if ChiChi didn't want it, or left ChiChi to go train a 10 year old without even talking to her, or training instead of going to a reunion of his friends and family when he can train anytime? Yea he really cares about others.

Bojack was non-canon, and Gohan needed the pep talk to save Earth in Cell saga.

Except Gokou wasn't fast enought to save both, he knew it, and chose Dende, and Mr. Satan. The closer ones. And he tried to IT away because he couldn't IT to Gohan and them and then IT away. He chose Dende and Satan over his family to save.

Non-Canon Goten beats Fat Buu at EoZ. But it's not shown how. It just shows him loose to Pan who would be his second opponent.

Vegeta states that Kid Buu was actually hurting Fat Buu where as nothing else really hurt them. Fat Buu was getting weaker each hit unlike normal.

The episode was "Goku's NOBLE decision"

He convinced Gohan to, he didn't say "YOU SHALL FIGHT OR I'LL GROUND YOU!!!!!!!!!!!"

So you're saying that Goku doesn't care about others? Why would he risk/give his life to save others then? Only villians don't care about anyone.

It was non-canon, but the people that made the movie probably made the characters do what they would've done w/their personality.

Are you saying he cares about Dende and Hercules more?

How does he beat Buu???

SSJ3 Goku couldn't hurt him, and Buu didn't regenerate after the fight without the help of Dende for some wierd reason.

Real noble...Seeing as how he decided to leave his family to train again just dead.

He convinced he son to go out there..Who doesn't like to fight at all. Still doesn't mean he knows anything about Gohan. Gohan would rather study like his mom wants than fight like his dad wants.

Gokou cares about others. He just doesn't care about their feelings. That's why he does stuff like he does.

No I'm saying he doesn't really care about anybody more than anybody else. Satan and Dende were closer, he got to them, and felt sorry he couldn't save Piccolo, Trunks, and his sons. Vegeta on the other hand was angry his son was killed but didn't care about the rest.

It never showed how he beat Buu.

Because Fat Buu was actually hurt and lost a lot of ki. Him being blown up and reforming isn't him getting hurt. Kid Buu was able to hurt him. Vegeta even states that the Buu's can hurt each other and that Fat Buu will die soon if he isn't saved.

Then why is that the episode's title?

Gohan actually wanted to train with Goku; he trained very hard during that 3 year time and the time chamber, but is often seen drawing pictures when he should be studying. Goku sees this, and assumes that it also means that Gohan likes to fight.

He cares about others then. Including Gohan.

He actually showed sorrow over Gohan, Goten and Trunks but for some reason not Picollo. And he cared more when they died than when Gero blew up that city.

PIS?

Does it take "ki" for him to reform?

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Then why is that the episode's title?

Gohan actually wanted to train with Goku; he trained very hard during that 3 year time and the time chamber, but is often seen drawing pictures when he should be studying. Goku sees this, and assumes that it also means that Gohan likes to fight.

He cares about others then. Including Gohan.

He actually showed sorrow over Gohan, Goten and Trunks but for some reason not Picollo. And he cared more when they died than when Gero blew up that city.

PIS?

Does it take "ki" for him to reform?

I'm not sure there's a logical link between "drawing pictures" and "wants to fight the worlds most powerful android". Goku sees what he wants to see- that's always been his biggest fault, he's hopelessly naive.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Then why is that the episode's title?

Gohan actually wanted to train with Goku; he trained very hard during that 3 year time and the time chamber, but is often seen drawing pictures when he should be studying. Goku sees this, and assumes that it also means that Gohan likes to fight.

He cares about others then. Including Gohan.

He actually showed sorrow over Gohan, Goten and Trunks but for some reason not Picollo. And he cared more when they died than when Gero blew up that city.

PIS?

Does it take "ki" for him to reform? Episode title = truth? Gokou didn't think about anybody elses feelings and while everybody else is sad he's all happy go lucky wanting to go train harder.

Yea of course he trains...Androids were coming to destroy the world. What else is he going to do sit around and do nothing when he could do something?

Gokou cares for a lot of people sure. But he doesn't care about their feelings and what actually matters. He's happy they are alive, and all that but he does what he pleases no matter what will happen.

Because he knows them. He turned Super Saiyan because Krillen died also because he was angered by his friend dying. That doesn't prove much except that he cares about everybody he knows pretty much equally because it's his personality. Just like it's his personality to do what he wants with no thought to how other will feel. Which is what makes him a bad father and husband, and friend.

Who knows. I'm sure Goten could trick Buu out of the ring which is all he would need to do. In the manga we don't even know if Goten beats Fat Buu though. That's just the anime it happens.

I'm guessing it does. As Vegeta said he's getting weaker, and Dende has to heal him because he's hurt enough for Vegeta to think he can kill him with just a normal blast.

Originally posted by Kento
Episode title = truth? Gokou didn't think about anybody elses feelings and while everybody else is sad he's all happy go lucky wanting to go train harder.

Yea of course he trains...Androids were coming to destroy the world. What else is he going to do sit around and do nothing when he could do something?

Gokou cares for a lot of people sure. But he doesn't care about their feelings and what actually matters. He's happy they are alive, and all that but he does what he pleases no matter what will happen.

Because he knows them. He turned Super Saiyan because Krillen died also because he was angered by his friend dying. That doesn't prove much except that he cares about everybody he knows pretty much equally because it's his personality. Just like it's his personality to do what he wants with no thought to how other will feel. Which is what makes him a bad father and husband, and friend.

Who knows. I'm sure Goten could trick Buu out of the ring which is all he would need to do. In the manga we don't even know if Goten beats Fat Buu though. That's just the anime it happens.

I'm guessing it does. As Vegeta said he's getting weaker, and Dende has to heal him because he's hurt enough for Vegeta to think he can kill him with just a normal blast.

The title was made by the anime makers, and what they say is canon unless contradicted by Akira. Besides, Goku doesn't lie; it isn't his character.

I know, and Goku thought that meant he liked to fight.

So your feelings are more important than your life?

So he cares about Hercules as much as Gohan/Krillen???

Maybe....

Ok

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
The title was made by the anime makers, and what they say is canon unless contradicted by Akira. Besides, Goku doesn't lie; it isn't his character.

I know, and Goku thought that meant he liked to fight.

So your feelings are more important than your life?

So he cares about Hercules as much as Gohan/Krillen???

Maybe....

Ok

Episode titles really mean nothing. No to mention while everybody else is sad Gokou is gone he's all happy wanting to train not caring.

Which mean Gokou doesn't know Gohan at all. Which is the point.

What? Going off to do whatever he wants no matter how it'll make his wife feel doesn't exactly make him that great. He save them and everybody else. He's a hero but he's not a very good friend, husband, or father.

I think everybody is pretty much the same in Gokou's eyes. He doesn't treat anybody different and he doesn't show he likes somebody more than somebody else.

wait.....sorry, didn't mean to post...

Oh well, minus well post something since I bumped it....

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
wait.....sorry, didn't mean to post...

Titles are supposed to give an overview to what's happening. If Goku really was lying, the title would be like "Goku's selfish decision" or something...

Just because he didn't know one thing about him doesn't mean he doesn't know him at all.

He obviously knows people are sad he's dead, but if he comes back it could endanger the planet.

Proof?

Him not knowing Gohan was a pacifist when its his own son is a big thing. All Gokou knows about Gohan is that he has the strength inside him to be the most powerful, and tries to bring that out. He doesn't know much about what Gohan actually likes or anything that really matters.

I'm not just talking about him staying dead. I'm talking about him staying away for a year to train on Yadrat, or just taking off to train a ten year old boy to become the next protector of Earth and not even talking to him wife about leaving her for who knows how long he will, or not going with his family to see old friends because he's to busy training all the time.

There isn't any. But he treats everybody the same way. There really isn't any proof he likes his wife anymore than he does Vegeta. There also isn't any proof he like Mr. Satan less than he does Bulma. Everybody else from the Z Fighters don't like Mr. Satan sure but Gokou doesn't mind him at all. Or anybody else be they evil or not.

So he cares about Gohan, Chi Chi, Krillen, etc. as much as Freiza? He obviously has tried to harm/kill freiza...

No, but villains are different but he doesn't hate them either which is what I meant. He does also try to save Freeza even after he kills Krillen.

how did he get chi chi pregnant without crushing her pelvis more like shattering he is way to strong to control himself that well it probably wasnt satisfiying for him i guess

How does Supes sleep with Lois?

But really she is quite tough, Survived slightly injured by going through a tree and rock, and survived fine a ssj punching her.

Originally posted by Kento
How does Supes sleep with Lois?

But really she is quite tough, Survived slightly injured by going through a tree and rock, and survived fine a ssj punching her. well supes had years of practice while goku has never had to restrain himself exept in the start of the 24th or somthing world tournament and that was just a tap nothng compared to a pelvic thrust

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
So he cares about Gohan, Chi Chi, Krillen, etc. as much as Freiza? He obviously has tried to harm/kill freiza...

The thing is, if he were in the situation where Frieza had surrendered, and Vegeta, understandably, wanted to kill Frieza- he'd defend him just as much as he'd defend Gohan- as shown when he saved Dende and Hercule not his own sons in Buu saga.

Originally posted by Kento
Yes, yes he does. lol Maybe he was worn out from fighting Buu..or Gohan was staring at him angrily so he didn't hurt Pan so he lost on purpose. Or how cool would it be to see a teen beat up a kid? When he can play off loosing as being nice. Wait what? I thought that Buu won and got to the end and let Satan beat him?

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Wait what? I thought that Buu won and got to the end and let Satan beat him?

Goku promised that if one of the Z fighters got to the end, they'd let him win. The only character who might not agree to that, and who could beat Buu after Goku leaves, would be Vegeta. But seeing as he mostly wants to fight Goku anyway, he might have left the tournament anyway.

Originally posted by jimBOFH
The thing is, if he were in the situation where Frieza had surrendered, and Vegeta, understandably, wanted to kill Frieza- he'd defend him just as much as he'd defend Gohan- as shown when he saved Dende and Hercule not his own sons in Buu saga.

So he cares about Freiza as much as he cares about Gohan/Krillen???

Don't you get how wierd that is?

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Wait what? I thought that Buu won and got to the end and let Satan beat him? That was said to happen in all the other tournaments since the Z fighters never entered them. In the anime it shows Goten loosing to Pan which means he'd have to have beaten Fat Buu. What actually happens isn't ever said though.

Originally posted by Kento
That was said to happen in all the other tournaments since the Z fighters never entered them. In the anime it shows Goten loosing to Pan which means he'd have to have beaten Fat Buu. What actually happens isn't ever said though. Oh.

Well that's retarded.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
So he cares about Freiza as much as he cares about Gohan/Krillen???

Don't you get how wierd that is?

Yes, that's kind of the point. That's an example of WHY he's a bad father- he has absolutely no sense of priorities. He hardly differentiates between people at all. This might make him a good saviour of the world, but it doesn't make him a good father. Compare him to Vegeta- Vegeta's first loyalty, at the EoZ, is to his family, then to the remaining members of the Saiyan race, then to his other friends, and then to the Earth. E.g. He would have chosen to save Trunks, Goten, Gohan and Piccolo over Dende and Hercule, whereas Goku just doesn't differentiate between people.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Oh.

Well that's retarded. Yea. You'd think the little thing Akira did a few years ago with making the ending a bit longer he'd have did something with the tournament.

Originally posted by jimBOFH
Yes, that's kind of the point. That's an example of WHY he's a bad father- he has absolutely no sense of priorities. He hardly differentiates between people at all. This might make him a good saviour of the world, but it doesn't make him a good father. Compare him to Vegeta- Vegeta's first loyalty, at the EoZ, is to his family, then to the remaining members of the Saiyan race, then to his other friends, and then to the Earth. E.g. He would have chosen to save Trunks, Goten, Gohan and Piccolo over Dende and Hercule, whereas Goku just doesn't differentiate between people.

Dude, Goku HATES freiza. He BEAT UP and TRIED TO KILL him. In fact, he hates freiza more than Cell or Buu or any other villian. Goku never tried to kill Gohan, Bulma or anyone else except for Vegeta (who he spared) and Picollo.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Dude, Goku HATES freiza. He BEAT UP and TRIED TO KILL him. In fact, he hates freiza more than Cell or Buu or any other villian. Goku never tried to kill Gohan, Bulma or anyone else except for Vegeta (who he spared) and Picollo.
Goku doesn't HATE anyone. Seriously, he doesn't have it in him. When Frieza begged for his life as Namek was starting to erupt, Goku gave him some of his energy.
Every time anyone has surrendered or been beaten in the series, Goku has let them go (Cell and Buu couldn't be beaten except by killing them, and wouldn't surrender)
If Frieza surrendered and Vegeta wanted to kill him, Goku would try to stop him. Goku never tried to kill Vegeta- only to defeat him. Same with Frieza, same with everyone except Cell and Buu. It was Krillin who tried to kill Vegeta, and Vegeta certainly wasn't begging for his life- it was Goku who stopped Krillin from doing it.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Why? Every DBZ forum people say so because "he's away all the time" even though 90% of the time he's dead....and how's that his fault?


Discuss. OMG, this thread is so funny. Imo, he is as bad as father can get. cuz of him his whole family died. How do you choose Hercule over your son?!

Well I don't know if this has been covered yet (I haven't read the whole thread), but I certainly don't think a good father would send out his kids to fight and possibly get killed instead of himself

It's Vegeta and the Elder Kai! They got inside of Goku's skin and it changed him overtime! He's got a graveyard disposition and a tombstone mind. He's a bad mamajamma and he don't mind dyin! lol

Goku just got back from his farm, looked in the back and his dragon was gone. Has anyone seen his dragon? lol

Originally posted by DolX1
Goku just got back from his farm, looked in the back and his dragon was gone. Has anyone seen his dragon? lol

Im going to add on to that quote! It's like Hercule said, it was the "trick" that got him. He had to stay on top of his "tricks" to make ends meet for his family! (If you know what I mean!)

Originally posted by DolX1
Im going to add on to that quote! It's like Hercule said, it was the "trick" that got him. He had to stay on top of his "tricks" to make ends meet for his family! (If you know what I mean!)

No and he just is.

Goku he the best, and not afraid of nothing.

Which has what to do with him being a bad father? lol

Everything. But the lol was the point.

Wait..are you saying he's a good father or bad??

Who would have thought that the strongest man in the DBZ world would turn
out to be such a lame father. Well... it's true.
Looks like fighting and raising children are two different things, and
Goku chose fighting of the two. Let's consider him as an "absent father".
I won't say that he doesn't love his two boys, Gohan and Goten. But let's
review both cases, shall we?
First we have Gohan. This guy was mostly raised by Chi Chi and Piccolo
(fortunately for him). Mostly forced to study during 90% of the day, except
when the new enemy of the week showed up. Actually, I think fighting is the
only thing Goku helps him with. Besides that, nothing else can be added.
Then we have Goten. Looks like he suffered from the same kind of
abandonment his older brother did. He didn't even knew who his father was
until he was six. Okay, so Goku was dead at the time. But take a look at
this; Goku temporally came back to enter the martial arts Budokai. He
could've asked to see his nearly born son during his birthday, but noooooo,
he had to ask to come back to Earth for a "fighting tournament" instead.
See how his priorities are set?

Hmmm....lesse her. I'm going only by memory so I might be wrong on a few things.

Him being dead like twice serves as a valid excuse for the time away from his family. The Yadrat stuff, while questionable, is actually understandable. I don't think they ever talked about how long it took to master Instant Transmission and he may as well just take the pod back. Sure it takes longer but more dramatic.

Him giving Cell a Senzu bean was stupid but he was not the only one to be dropping the ball during that Saga. Goku had seen Gohan's true power so he had no real reason not to think he wouldn't use it and simply didn't think Gohan would be so pacifistic. And Gohan was being a bit of a pussy so I don't blame him. Cell did far more shit than Frieza did to his friends but Gohan doesn't explode until 16, someone he doesn't really know, dies?

As for Goten, he never knew the kid and had like one day to spend with him. He embraced him and crap I guess but he only had so little time so it's not like he could spend the whole day with his kids and leave the others alone. Not that kinda guy. They met at a tournament, near as I can tell, because they all like to fight. And hell, old times sake right? Letting them die from Kid Buu might be questionable, but Death Is Cheap. And by saving Dende and Hercule, he saved everyone! So it all worked out.

So, nah, I don't consider him a bad parent per se. A bad husband perhaps but Chi Chi isn't the most stellar wife so they're perfect I guess. Besides, he saved his kids life like several times so I can't call that a bad parent. And the kids and Pan seem to adore him so he must be pretty kind offscreen or something.

Originally posted by Csdabest
1. Let his son get drunk
2. Let his son miss tons of school
3. Let his son almost get killed
4. Let his son go to namek by himself
5. Left him fatherless for years to come
6. At the end of GT left his son to do Goku.
7. Bitched Slapped Chichi into a house
8. Let him hang around master rochi

many the list goes on

For #7, he was unaware of his strength. He didn't mean to put that much stength into that hit. Now he has been seen hitting Gohan, when Gohan was going to challenge Cell recklessly after Piccolo took a blast to his chest, Goku chose to punch Gohan to keep him from going to Cell so he didnt get himself killed.

okay people. Goku's not a bad father. but he's not a good one either. if you look back to the hyberbolic time chamber you'll remeber that gohan stated he was too gentle as piccolo said earler in the series. forcing goku to push gohan to hislimits and in in the cell games goku told his friends that they didn't see what he saw which proves he wad not planning it from the beginnig butlater decided. plus do you remeber the second broly movie he came to help goten. also when things get too serious tells his sons to go away.and sometimes even his friends. remeber the ginyu force or frieza or any of the movies gohan was always cornered and goku came the rescue

Goku's an warrior alien. Our values don't matter. Saiyans have the strength and longetivity to survive most things. A Saiyan that doesn't fight isn't alive. That's why Chi Chi was such a good character in the show. A human mother freaking the heck out at her son being thrown at monsters.

Goku did what he had to do.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Goku's an warrior alien. Our values don't matter. Saiyans have the strength and longetivity to survive most things. A Saiyan that doesn't fight isn't alive. That's why Chi Chi was such a good character in the show. A human mother freaking the heck out at her son being thrown at monsters.

Goku did what he had to do.

Vegeta is a better father than Goku.

... King Vegeta was a better father than Goku.

... King Cold was a better father than Goku.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Vegeta is a better father than Goku.

... King Vegeta was a better father than Goku.

... King Cold was a better father than Goku.
When the earth was at peace, Goku was a damn good father to Gohan. Then the events of "DBZ" happened. Penis.

He gave Cell a Senzu Bean before he fought Gohan, so that Cell could more effectively beat the shit out of his twelve (I think?) year old son.

9 or 11 depending on the version if I recall correctly.

Originally posted by NemeBro
He gave Cell a Senzu Bean before Cell fought Gohan, so that Cell would strong enough to force Gohan to unleash his true power because he wanted Gohan to take over as "Earth's protector". Only though actual combat and a real need to protect could Gohan finally unlock that potential. Goku was being a very wise and mature father, at that moment. The exact opposite of a bad father.

I agree.

Shut the **** up.

Goku is not a bad father. Otherwise, his children wouldn't respect him so. I remember how happy Gohan was everytime he saw Goku. And it isn't true that Goku never hugged his children. He hugged Gohan in the first part of DBZ after he ended up on that tree-branch over the waterfall. I remember how angry and frustrated he was when Raditz took Gohan. He also hugged Gohan in the Buu saga, before Gohan took of to fight Super Buu. He also hugged Goten before he went back to the world of the Dead. When they were hospitalized, he looked at Gohan with a serious, and even a bit angry expression, when Gohan told Bulma and Krilin to take him with them. He let him go because Gohan insisted on going. And he thought that Gohan really got stronger. By that i mean not a spoiled crybaby anymore. In the part where Goku "played"with the glass full of water, after ChiChi went somewhere talking about Gohan, he looked really concerned about him too. He took off to Namek immediately, when he found out that they got in danger. There are a lot more of these "small parts"that show that Goku is a good father, even if he's not around that much. He loves his family and cares about them. He puts up with ChiChi's screamingallthetime thing and is really gentle to her. I think if Vegeta would be with her, he would just slap her into the wall or something . Well i wrote quite a bit here, so i guess i should stop.

Oh and about that Cell thing. I don't think he would make Gohan fight him, if Gohan would've told him that he doesn't want to fight. He told that WHILE fighting. And in the room of Spirit and time he only told Goku to train him more. He didn't want to rest. Goku isn't psychic or anything to tell that Gohan doesn't like to fight. He just thought that since Gohan is half Sayan, he got to like fighting as well as him. And he wanted Gohan to even surpass him. He told it himself: "I want you to surpass me. It is my Ideal." He let Gohan fight because he saw alot of potential in him and he trusted him. Gohan would have defeated Cell, but he got too carried away and played around to long, that was also mentioned in the series. That's why Goku had to go blow himself up with Cell. And when Cell came back to life, Gohan was too tired to keep fighting at the same level with Cell. But he still defeated Cell, because Goku talked to him and showed him that He believes in him.

And i think that Believing in your children and bringing out their inner potential is a feature of good parents. Chichi brought out his potential in learning, While Goku did it in Fighting, because that's what he's best at.

There. Now that's really it.

Goku was not a model father, no, but I wouldn't say he's a bad one. He loved his kids, and something that could be considered even more fatherly, if the series wasn't about badass warriors fighting super strong evil guys to save the world, is that he believed in them. He believed that Gohan could defeat Cell, a lot of kids don't get that obvious admission of faith from their fathers.

That being said, one should always remember this fact: Goku is stupid.

Oh, and the smacking of Chichi is very obviously not a conscious thing. He was going for a playful tap on her arm or something, and because he's a moron, he didn't realize he put too much power behind it. That and it's obviously being played for laughs.

Loving father, yes. Competent father, no.

Piccolo raised Gohan more than Goku did.

Originally posted by jimBOFH
Goku is not the perfect guy that he's made out to be- he's got good intentions, but have you ever heard the phrase "The road to hell is paved with good intentions?"
Anyway, here's my take on him- on the positive side, he's friendly, merciful, generous and will never knowingly do anything evil or that hurts others. He's also innocent- but innocence isn't the same as being good. Innocence is the lack of knowledge, and therefore temptation. It's like saying that lack of fear is the same thing as courage- it isn't. Courage is standing up to fear, Fearlessness is having no fear to begin with. Innocence is not being aware of temptation- virtue is being fully aware of it and resisting.
So Goku is innocent, but in some ways this actually makes him a worse person. At the beginning of Dragonball, Goku is so innocent that he regularly gropes people to determine their gender- compared to Oolong who is most definitely not innocent, but rarely gropes people. It's the same sort of thing throughout his life. We can't blame Goku for being innocent- but that doesn't mean that it's always a good thing.
This is why I think Piccolo and Vegeta are more believable, and admirable characters- they choose to be good, whereas it's hard-wired in to Goku to be "innocent".

Brilliant post, I think that pretty much sums up Goku as a parent. Basically, Goku is the Peter Griffin of anime: deep down a good person, but too stupid and careless to actually be able to raise a child properly. I don't think there is anything I could add that hasn't already been posted by a dozen people already. Goku is simply too much of a child him self to raise a child, just like Micheal Jackson :P

Originally posted by BradBalboa
Goku is a awsome fater to his sons, hes not always there for te litle things but the guy has to sae the universe!!...like superman, he has to ut his responsibility to the people before the things he wants!! Gohan wud often aspire to be like his fater, i think many of us a hav..

This is true!! I know I've always wanted to be like him! His personality is really great! He's compassionate even to his greatest enemies like Frieza, Cell and Majin Buu. He has a great light in him that shines as great as his Super Saiyan Transformations!!!

Originally posted by T-Wrecks
Brilliant post, I think that pretty much sums up Goku as a parent. Basically, Goku is the Peter Griffin of anime: deep down a good person, but too stupid and careless to actually be able to raise a child properly. I don't think there is anything I could add that hasn't already been posted by a dozen people already. Goku is simply too much of a child him self to raise a child, just like Micheal Jackson :P

I can go along with the idea of him being childlike but I don't know about Peter Griffin, Goku's better than that.

Originally posted by atv2
For #7, he was unaware of his strength. He didn't mean to put that much stength into that hit. Now he has been seen hitting Gohan, when Gohan was going to challenge Cell recklessly after Piccolo took a blast to his chest, Goku chose to punch Gohan to keep him from going to Cell so he didnt get himself killed.

Gohan went to Namek with Krillin and Bulma. Goku went to Namek by himself. Not sure about Gohan missing school, the world was in trouble and the force was powerful enough the world to not have anything. The world was saved and Gohan did live on to be a scholar. Goku did his part well as a father to them because fathers will put their lives on the line to save their children. When Vegeta and Frieza offered him a position to work with them promising him the world, Goku declined them both and said he had everything a man could want, his family!!!! If you're referring to the time of DeadZone, Gohan was captured by Garlic's Jr's henchmen and they manipulated Gohan into drinking.

Goku is a good father. He made the right decision to get married before he had children and he set the example for Gohan and Goten(Although Goten got too focused into dating women instead of training, but still he didn't have anything and we've yet to know what he did during the hundred year period.) Vegeta with his prince status, had Trunks out of wedlock. In the uncut versions of DBZ, Bulma smokes and drinks. She may be one of the biggest brains in working with gadgets but she doesn't have sense to lay off drinking and tobacco use. Chi Chi on the otherhand regardless of the version, remained the strong healthy mother figure. Same thing goes for Goku.

As I mentioned before with Goku having children with ChiChi after their marriage, Gohan followed the example and had pan after his marriage with Videl. Now Hercule/Mr.Satan was selfish, he would want to take the credit of others for the sake of his popularity. Goku didn't seek to be popular, he cared for the people around him and gave his life so they could live!!!

Goku is an example of the ideal man!!

This isn't an arguement on whether or bot goku is a good person, but a good father. Vegeta may have not been the nicer father but he was always there for trunks, even going to the park with him after he beat him to pulp. Goku on the other hand was never there unless it had something to do with fighting. He may have been the nicer of the two but all he ever did was shurk his parental duties.

Also on Bulma, she represents the type of woman that would take a jerk and get herself into things that are harmful making herself acceptable in the eyes of the jerk that she dates.