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Would there be a revolution, if every American saw this? The time is now.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21200.htm

After watching it I agree, there are some worrying encroachments on civil liberties...but owell.

Thread gonna get closed for being a conspiracy thing.

where is the conspiracy though? there isnt one

and if a mod closes this then he is retarded and should be stripped of his modding dutys.

the conspiracy that there are people out there removing our human rights?

Or is it not a conspiracy?

the point is that there is a huge loss of civil libertys. and more will be lost.

the discusion i want is whether giving up freedom for security is the right move to make.

benjamin franklin said 'those who give up liberty for security deserve neither'

Originally posted by Deano
the point is that there is a huge loss of civil libertys. and more will be lost.

the discusion i want is whether giving up freedom for security is the right move to make.

benjamin franklin said 'those who give up liberty for security deserve neither'

Actually, (and I'm gonna sound like a dick here) Ben Franklin said: "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Then he proceeded to say so many different variations of this main theme that no one know the original quote. My favorite permutation is "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." because that is how it appears in Civ4.

Also, why is every bad thing considered a conspiracy. It's not like some back-room meeting decided that "this week we're going to oppress the . Not everything is done with malicious intent in a coordinated effort.

not everything..but most

Originally posted by lord xyz
Thread gonna get closed for being a conspiracy thing.

It shouldn't be closed for conspiracy. Our rights are being stifled, but quietly. The first amendment is being trampled on. The Amero thread was closed for conspiracy but that has become a very relevant issue.

Even if this were true it wouldn't cause a revolution and I don't intent to take it awfully seriously since it starts off by insulting the person watching and Deano posted it.

Most of this is because it is the time of the apathetic generation. We don't nearly work to challenge the government in unison as our mothers and fathers did.

The John Adams bit at the end was a bit much. Also, Olbermann sucks.
Right message, though.

can anyone here post one example of them being directly affected by this "errosion of civil liberties"

anyone actually give an example of their house being broken into by the FBI?...anyone actually been shouted at by a CCTV camera?....

anything other than having to wait longer at airports?

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Actually, (and I'm gonna sound like a dick here) Ben Franklin said: ...no one know the original quote. noneup

Originally posted by jaden101
can anyone here post one example of them being directly affected by this "errosion of civil liberties"

Is that really fair? I think all of us could cite numerous news sources that show people having their rights abused. That a small sample of people haven't been abused does not mean rights are not being eroded.

Originally posted by jaden101
anyone actually give an example of their house being broken into by the FBI?

I forget how many, but there are a certain number of people each year killed by the police during home raids. Some of these were performed on the wrong addresses, and the occupant was killed defending their home from people they may not have necessarily known were police.

I don't know if it is becoming any more prevalent, which the "erosion" seems to assume, but there certainly are abuses.

Originally posted by jaden101
anything other than having to wait longer at airports?

ok, BUT, they were a ***** in the first place

actually, after watching the video, I don't think it is that bad, or conspiratorial at all.

Would anyone argue that over the last 8 years, executive power in the American government hasn't grown to unprecedented levels?

Like, the idea of a revolution is silly, but there certainly are problems that Americans need to deal with regarding civil liberties.

i think it's far more the case that it's the small number of people whom news laws have been used on rather than a small number of people who they haven't....and in almost every case these people have been part of an investigation for a specific reason...it's not as if the authorities are randomly picking people and using laws against them

granted you hear bizarre stories about how anti terror laws are being used to make sure people are separating their rubbish into the appropriate recycling bins and if they aren't then they are prosecuted...but one thing i've noticed is that i've never heard of a single incident where it's actually happened...it's just news stations saying it COULD happen



that's an entirely different thing altogether though...the video is saying that people are having their houses broken into by the FBI who are faking robberies in order to plant bugs in peoples houses...any you know of heard about this actually happening to?

Originally posted by jaden101
can anyone here post one example of them being directly affected by this "errosion of civil liberties"

anyone actually give an example of their house being broken into by the FBI?...anyone actually been shouted at by a CCTV camera?....



Ever hear of the incident at "Ruby Ridge" look it up.

And Yes there is a conspiracy! A hand full of men controlling the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dmPchuXIXQ

I implore everyone to watch all 5 parts.



.

Originally posted by Lycanthrope
Ever hear of the incident at "Ruby Ridge" look it up.

And Yes there is a conspiracy! A hand full of men controlling the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dmPchuXIXQ

I implore everyone to watch all 5 parts.



.

The music is annoying and probably part of a hypnosis scheme by the true masters of the world.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The music is annoying and probably part of a hypnosis scheme by the true masters of the world.

The music is annoying but what is being said is truth and Very Scary.
The "World Bankers" are in control of Governments and Economies and every thing Militarily that's happening around the globe.

I am actually kind of surprised that you would not recommend it.

Will not happen to every single American.

Truth is a some US citizens have abusd the privileged liberties, imposing themselves in prominent positions and excerting pressure onto weaker governments, and public figures in other countries as well as within the US.

Those that will be curbed are those that will deserve to be watched.

I don’t see the FBI breaking in my house and planting a bug behind my toilet to listen to me farting and taking a crap.

Edit:

btw, is that Paul Giammati?

Originally posted by Lycanthrope
Ever hear of the incident at "Ruby Ridge" look it up.

And Yes there is a conspiracy! A hand full of men controlling the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dmPchuXIXQ

I implore everyone to watch all 5 parts.



.

1992...a little bit before this so called errosion of civil liberties...you fail

I fail? ,that's funny didn't know it was a test. The point is ITS BEEN HAPPENING!!! This shit doesn't spring up over night. Wake up!!

wow, ruby ridge was before Waco?

I always thought the other way around...

if it's happening then why am i no less free today than i was 10 years ago?

the point is...since sept 11th there has been huge talk about civil liberties being erroded...yet i have never once met a single person that has been grossly affected by it bar the issue with taking longer to fly on planes and the thing post glasgow airport bombing with the size of hand luggage and liquids on flights which have now been relaxed

fair enough you hear the odd news story about some idiot at an airport making a joke about having a bomb and then being questioned for days by the authorities...and that's clearly a bit of an overreaction but that's about it

all the moaning about CCTV cameras is clearly stupid as in every incident of major crime CCTV plays a huge part in identifying and catching people responsible...it happened on 9/11...it happened in the London bombings...it happens every day in bank robberies and street crime...so why the problem?...they're hardly peeking in people's windows 24/7

although i do personally know a few CCTV operators and they've told me about some funny stuff...like having competitions to see who can find the strangest sights...one of them seeing an entire herd of deer walking town Arbroath high street

Originally posted by jaden101
i think it's far more the case that it's the small number of people whom news laws have been used on rather than a small number of people who they haven't....and in almost every case these people have been part of an investigation for a specific reason...it's not as if the authorities are randomly picking people and using laws against them

granted you hear bizarre stories about how anti terror laws are being used to make sure people are separating their rubbish into the appropriate recycling bins and if they aren't then they are prosecuted...but one thing i've noticed is that i've never heard of a single incident where it's actually happened...it's just news stations saying it COULD happen

fair enough, however, that doesn't mean the potential groundwork has been laid

government doesn't give up its power very easily, so its likely those things which could be abused will never go away. How long until they just become the "norm", you know?

Originally posted by jaden101
that's an entirely different thing altogether though...the video is saying that people are having their houses broken into by the FBI who are faking robberies in order to plant bugs in peoples houses...any you know of heard about this actually happening to?

ok, totally, but, from my own and lycanthrope's reply, it did look like you were saying there were no abuses of personal liberty occuring, not that the specific things mentioned in the video were only "could happen-s" and ya, I agree with you, other than to say I don't think the government should have the ability to maybe do that (aside from the fact they get to determine what they are allowed to do anyways...)

Originally posted by inimalist
fair enough, however, that doesn't mean the potential groundwork has been laid

government doesn't give up its power very easily, so its likely those things which could be abused will never go away. How long until they just become the "norm", you know?



ok, totally, but, from my own and lycanthrope's reply, it did look like you were saying there were no abuses of personal liberty occuring, not that the specific things mentioned in the video were only "could happen-s" and ya, I agree with you, other than to say I don't think the government should have the ability to maybe do that (aside from the fact they get to determine what they are allowed to do anyways...)

once it's law it is the norm that it can be used...but you hardly hear people constantly moaning about some of the silly laws that is still on the statute books from years ago

for example if someone puts a stamp on a letter upside down, in the UK, then they can be prosecuted for treason (the only thing still punishable by death in the UK)...it's been law for years...doesn't mean it ever gets applied

legally you're not allowed to die in the houses of parliment

legally you're still not allowed to eat mince pies on christmas day in the UK

you're not allowed to enter the houses of parliment wearing a suit of armour

it's illegal to walk down a path in a public park with 3 childrens prams side by side

any of these ever get enforced?...anyone ever see anyone moaning about these laws existing?

Originally posted by jaden101
once it's law it is the norm that it can be used...but you hardly hear people constantly moaning about some of the silly laws that is still on the statute books from years ago

for example if someone puts a stamp on a letter upside down, in the UK, then they can be prosecuted for treason (the only thing still punishable by death in the UK)...it's been law for years...doesn't mean it ever gets applied

legally you're not allowed to die in the houses of parliment

legally you're still not allowed to eat mince pies on christmas day in the UK

you're not allowed to enter the houses of parliment wearing a suit of armour

it's illegal to walk down a path in a public park with 3 childrens prams side by side

any of these ever get enforced?...anyone ever see anyone moaning about these laws existing?

indeed

however, I think it would be a waste of both our time for me to have to point out the obvious distinctions between giving more, unconstitutional, powers to the police and law enforcement agencies (who already have problems showing restraint in regards to civil rights) and such trivial laws.

Maybe you are right, actually I hope you are.

i think you are seeing my point...it's not that laws exist...it's how they are applied...and i think there is alot...and i mean ALOT of scaremongering with regards to how laws could be applied and not how they are applied

granted there have been cases where law enforcement have gotten overzealous and seriously ****ed up...the Jean-Charles De Menezes case in the UK that is currently going on is an example of how an atmosphere of fear in the wake of an attack can lead to terrible consequences...but everyone acknowledges that it was a horrendous mistake and people who implemented it are paying with their jobs and liberties...just as they did in the wake of the Ruby Ridge incident

but all this "cell phones can be used to spy on you even when they're off" is just utter nonsense unless the phone is physically tampered with and thus you'd have to have been identified as worth watching for some reason in the 1st place...and they've been using bugs for years in cases like that

the allegation that it's being used continuously against everyone is just nonsense

of course

even just the necessary logistics of monitoring everyone would make it nearly impossible.

I do however think it is wise to stand against laws that violate the constitution, regardless of how they are applied.

And while the gvt was held accountable at Ruby Ridge, they were not at Waco and in many other similar circumstances. Honestly, it took them shooting a woman in the face with a sniper rifle while she was holding an infant for the government to finally declare that they might have made a mistake.

but these incidents are in a huge minority...authorities are constantly applying laws and catching people who deserve to be caught with no press coverage because them catching a terrorist in the middle of planning an attack isn't news worthy

the problem government has is that they can act, in the aftermath of an attack yet not be seen to act and they would be accused of doing nothing...or they can be seen to be doing something (the tanks at heathrow for example) and be accused of overreacting

there isn't really a balance that everyone will accept...someone will always criticise either saying they are doing too much or not doing enough.

I voted for Bob Barr. So when it goes to hell, it's sure as heck not my fault.

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Originally posted by DigiMark007
I voted for Bob Barr. So when it goes to hell, it's sure as heck not my fault.

313

Yes it is. You could have done more to convince people to vote for him.