Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

I will represent Batgirl. Srank will represent Bullseye.

There is no prep, standart equipment for both, bloodlust is on, and a character wins once the opponent is knocked out or dead.

Location is a random city block, with the contestants starting 20 meters from eachother.

Judges: Cavalier, Digimark, Fangirl.

Go.

Basically, Batgirl would just plain destroy him. She is much faster, much more skilled when it comes to h2h combat, and on top of that she also has the body reading ability which would assure her victory. Now, let's elaborate on each of these categories.

Speed

When it comes to street level, Batgirl and speed are practically synonymous. Let's start with just a few examples displaying her speed ..

She is so fast, that once she is caught on camera and analyzed, they think she has super-speed. It is stated that while her individual moves are borderline human, it is her aggregate speed that's metahuman.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl34.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl35.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl36.jpg


Here, she just flat-out turns around and faces a group of armed men. Now, notice how the bullets are all pretty much shot at the same time yet, she just smiles, and easily avoids them, and afterwards taking them down before they can react.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl30.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl31.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl32.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl33.jpg


She is practically a blur.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl60.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl61.jpg

Dodges bullets point-blank.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl64.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl65.jpg

Dodges a bullet from a sniper-bullet without even looking, when the bullet is inches away from her head, ever since she was a kid.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl77.jpg

Like I said, a blur ..

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl157.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl158.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl159.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl160.jpg

--

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl129.jpg

--
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl130.jpg
--

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl133.jpg

Takes down the original Batgirl in fractions of a second.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl134.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl135.jpg

Keep your eye on the bottle.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl161.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl162.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl163.jpg

Takes down a group of people before another guy has time to react.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl37.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl38.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl39.jpg

Disharms a group of men before they even realize what's happening.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl43.jpg

Various displays of her catching fast moving objects, in most cases before anybody else can react.

(the guys throwing, and the guys being attacked are all part of the League of Assasins, which was trained by Shiva)

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl91.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl92.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl93.jpg

----

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl73.jpg

Destroys and catches arrows mid-air, impressing Connor Hawke (you know, the guy who fought and held his own quite well against Shiva, and is taunted to be one of the best MA in the DCU).

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl115.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl116.jpg

Battle skills

As in speed, she is pretty much the best hand to hand fighter in the DCU below Karate Kid. Let's elaborate on this a bit too. This will be further elaborated in the battles I will present in a few minutes. For now, I'll just make a summary on how good she is.

Ever since birth, she was trained by David Cain on pretty much everything combat-related. Here, Bronze Tiger explains to her what was her true purpose (we also see flashback with him training her). She was trained by the whole league of assasins in order to become the perfect fighter, 'the one who is all'. It is explained that Shiva could take out the whole League of Assasins and once they found out she was taken down, it was obvious it was Cassandra who did it.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl87.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl88.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl89.jpg

She mastered every known weapon, common or exotic.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl131.jpg
Learns tehniques just by watching them once, in battle.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl75.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl76.jpg

She learned stick-fighting in 5 minutes.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl126.jpg

Batman: He's not the fighter you are. No one is.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl141.jpg

Batman: She was good. Not 'Good'. Not 'Better than expected'. Perfect

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl57.jpg

Body reading.

This one is pretty much the nail in the coffin. With this ability, coupled with her other atributes, Bullseye simply won't be able to touch her.

A short explination of how it works and how she acquired this ability. In short, she can read a person's body as easily as people read english or french, it's her 'nativa language'. As explained, she practically knows what you're about to do even before you do it.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl85.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl86.jpg

How she describes it.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl63.jpg

Batman explains just how good she is, including her speed.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl58.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl59.jpg

From a glange, knows that a guy is thinking of jumping from a building.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl148.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl149.jpg


Capable of understanding Robin's plan just from a few gestures, to Robin's surprise.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl47.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl46.jpg

Batman: Your childhood training has taught you to flawlessley predict your opponent's moves.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl21.jpg

She 'reads body language like you read the newspaper. She sees everything'

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl78.jpg
Dodges Batman's attacks with ridiculous ease.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl24.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl25.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl26.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl27.jpg

Hits Batman so fast, he doesn't even know he was hit, eventough he was standing right in front of him.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl127.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl128.jpg

Beats Lady Shiva, one of the best martial artists in the DC Universe.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl150.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl151.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl152.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl153.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl154.jpg

Twice. (Notice how in the Flashback, Shiva is shown taking all of the Leagues of Assasins at the same time, even Bronze Tiger.)

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl98.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl99.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl100.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl101.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl102.jpg

Fight against Batman. It's not really an all-out fight, but notice how Batman eventually starts using stuff from his utility belt.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl3.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl5.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl7.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl10.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl11.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl12.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl13.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl14.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl15.jpg

...

(continued)

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl16.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl17.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl18.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl19.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl20.jpg

Her father used to .. shoot her when she was little. In this flashback, she is shot and, with her back turn, dodges bullets and starts owning Cain.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl22.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl23.jpg

Now for some other offensive capabilities feats ..

Kicks a hole into the wall.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl40.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl41.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl42.jpg

Kicking feat.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl81.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl82.jpg

Breaks a 3-inch quartz window.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl108.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl109.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl110.jpg

Beats down a Metahuman that Batman was apparently unable to stop, demonstrating speed, durability and hitting power in the process.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl44.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl45.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl50.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl51.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl52.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl53.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl54.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl55.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl56.jpg

Hits with enough force to crush a normal human skull.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl117.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl118.jpg

Training ..

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl66.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl67.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl69.jpg

---

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl112.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Batgirl113.jpg

This should have been over by now but since Srank hasn't posted, well .. anything, I'll just extend the time by 12 hours starting from now to let him say what he has to say, since I've got to go. I'll post what I have to say about Bullseye, aswell as supposed counter-arguments to his posts when I'm back.

My power is going on and off. T_T

To put it bluntly Bullseye is just too much for Cass to handle. He is too fast. He is too strong. He is too durable. He is too skilled. He is too deadly.

Sure, looking back at Bullseye's history he was beaten up pretty badly by Daredevil in their first few encounters, but since the removal of his brain tumour he has edged out Daredevil pretty consistently since (with the notable exception their fight fallowing Lester's attempted assassination of Milla). He has even fought both Elektra and Daredevil at the same and was more than holding his own before he was hit by a bus, and that fight mostly consisted of melee combat.

Seriously what can Batgirl to do a guy who has owned Elektra? Elektra who has moved so fast that cameras couldn't track her movements. Elektra has moved so fast that she has blocked machine gun fire with her sais. Elekta who has ran through a well lit campfire packed full of mercenaries with out being seen. Elektra who has had machine guns trained on her, moved from across the room and eviscerated the gun men without them realising she's moved or that they've been killed. Elektra who has killed every every soldier guarding a building, in different locations, all under video surveillance all at seemingly the same time, without any of them firing a single shot, radioing in for back-up or anyone monitoring the surveillance videos noticing. Elektra who has plunked the still beating heart out of a mans chest. Elektra who has disarmed Punisher without him realising it. Elektra who has blitzed an entire room of armed guards before the "You're under arrest" was said.

Does Batgirl have impressive speed feats? Certainly. More impressive than her street level peers? No. Everything she has done has been replicated by Shang-Chi, and if not Shang-Chi than by Iron-fist or Elektra, or Captain America or Daredevil. So does the ability to avoid, gunfire from random cannon-fodder give her the ability to avoid Bullseye where other people with comparable, and in some cases more impressive, speed feats have failed? Lester has managed to hit Spider-man, Daredevil, Elektra and Black Tarantula... but Cassandra Cain will be too fast for him to tag? I don't think so.

And its not as though Batgirl is some how magically untouchable. She has been tagged before by people that can't hold a candle to Bullseye. Robin has landed hits on her, so has Nightwing. Even Onyx has managed to hit her. The other girls Cain trained don't seem to have much trouble doing it. Mad-dog didn't have much trouble hitting her either. Didn't Alpha manage to hit her also? She has impressive showings against fodder, but nothing to suggest that Bullseye would be unable to hit her.

Bullseye vs. Daredevil and Elektra - Part 1

Bullseye fights both DD and Elektra at the same time.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_dd-79-003.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_dd-79-004.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_dd-79-005.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_dd-79-006.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_dd-79-008.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_dd-79-009.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_dd-79-010.jpg

Bullseye vs. Daredevil and Elektra - Part 2

Bullseye fights both DD and Elektra at the same time.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_dd-79-012.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_dd-79-013.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_dd-79-014.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_dd-79-015.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_dd-79-016.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_dd-79-017.jpg

Bullseye takes down Black Tarantula

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_dd-86-017.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_dd-86-018.jpg

Bullseye storms into a warehouse full of thugs and effortlessly demolishes them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_Daredevil_111_010.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_Daredevil_111_011.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_Daredevil_111_012.jpg

Bullseye has Captain America on the defensive but leaves when Diamond-back shows up.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_CaptainAmerica374p01.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_CaptainAmerica374p02.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_CaptainAmerica374p03.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_CaptainAmerica374p05.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_CaptainAmerica374p06.jpg

Bullseye owns Daredevil after massacring an entire church full of people.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_Daredevil_v2_n5-p12-13.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_Daredevil_v2_n5-p14.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_Daredevil_v2_n5-p15.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_Daredevil_v2_n5-p16.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_Daredevil_v2_n5-p17.jpg

Bullseye snipes a woman from across the street with a toothpick.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_DaredevilTheTargetBk01-19.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_DaredevilTheTargetBk01-20.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_DaredevilTheTargetBk01-21.jpg

Bullseye makes a "Billion to one" shot.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_Deadpool02816.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_Deadpool02817.jpg

Bullseye throws some plants onto the floor and the fragements kill a bunch of guys.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_Deadpool01614.jpg

Bullseye koes DD with a paper airplane.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_daredevil14116.jpg

Bullseyes famour battle with Elektra. It speaks for itself.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_Daredevil181-19.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_Daredevil181-20.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_Daredevil181-21.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_Daredevil181-22.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_Daredevil181-23.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_Daredevil181-19.jpg

Bullseye's training to fight Elektra after the Hand revives her.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_Elektra02_13.jpg

Is Batgirl's move reading ability more of an asset than Daredevil's radar sense, Elektra's telepath, or Spider-man's spidy-sense? Because Bullseye has managed to hit all three of them (admittedly Spider-man was injured). If none of them can consistently avoid Bullseye, it is ridiculous to assume that Batgirl could.

Daredevil says that only his radar sense allows him to avoid BE. A normal man couldn't hope to calculate the trajectory in time let alone get out of the way after. DD isn't even sure how long he can keep it up for and this was before BE got his brain tumor removed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_Daredevil132_02.jpg

Seriously though, if all Bullseye ever did was beat Elekra it would be more than enough to give him the edge over Cassandra. Elektra is a monster pure and simple. See is stronger than Batgirl, faster, more durable, more skilled, and has telepathy and some quasi-mystical ninja abilities, but she still can't beat Bullseye... even with the aid of Daredevil. But he has other claims to fame as well, like beating Black Tarantual (a guy who owned Spider-man) easily, and stalemating Cap.

Heh. Predictable arguments.

To put it simply, ABC logic simply doesn't go around here, and a few good showings against Daredevil and Elektra doesn't make him able to handle Cassandra, especially since she has been constantly shown to be at least Batman level, with showings and fights proving her to be superior to Shiva(who has stalemated Batman in h2h combat) and Bronze Tiger (who has once pretty much one-shotted Batman and stalemated with him when Batman was giving it all).

She is much faster. Much more skilled. Much better overall as a h2h fighter. Range, I give it to Bullseye, but that's irrelevant since he just simply won't be able to touch her, as I've shown. Does he have precision ? Definitley. But how does that help him against someone with Cassandra's type of speed and, above all, her body reading abilities, which would allow her to know what Bullseye would to at any time. She will close the distance between them and kick the crap out of him, plain and simple.

Now ..

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Bullseye has Captain America on the defensive but leaves when Diamond-back shows up.

*skip*

Bullseye owns Daredevil after massacring an entire church full of people.

*skip*

Good thing that in this fight he doesn't have the advantage of Batgirl not knowing who she is fighting, of it being dark, or of him taking her by surprise with a lantern in the eyes and a shovel damaging her leg, right ?

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_CapBullseye1.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_CapBullseye2.jpg


--

Yeah, him shooting Daredevil with a gun and then beating the crap out of him is really .. impressive.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Bullseye's training to fight Elektra after the Hand revives her.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Bullseye/th_Elektra02_13.jpg

It's a good thing you brought this up because otherwise I would have and the bad thing for your argument is that I'll introduce some context aswell. It is made quite clear from the beginning that if Bullseye were to fight Elektra right then, he would get slaughtered.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Bullseye45.jpg

So he decides to study her moves months in a row, as your scan shows ..

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Bullseye46.jpg

Once they start fighting, this works pretty good, since he is dominating the first part of the fight pretty handily due to him studying her, by being able to predict everything she will do and taking advantage of it. But, once she changes her fighting style, she just pretty much destroys him h2h.
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Bullseye47.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Bullseye48.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Bullseye49.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Bullseye50.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Bullseye51.jpg


So yeah, it doesn't really help your case. Furthermore, since he has studied both Daredevil and Elektra, him having the better (and highest) performances against them is quite logical.

Here he mentions studying Daredevil ..

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Bullseye18.jpg

Now, him holding his own against Daredevil and Elektra at the same time is probably his highest feat .. ever, though he got beaten and started running away. But one high showing doesn't make up for an entire career.

Daredevil has many times beaten him hand to hand, even while Bullseye was using other projectiles to try to take him down. It has happened both pre and post adamantium injection, which doesn't make up for his h2h fighting skills anyway. He was kicking his ass even while his radar sense was turning on and off.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Bullseye12.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Bullseye13.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Bullseye14.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Bullseye15.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Bullseye16.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Bullseye17.jpg

--

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Bullseye27.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Bullseye28.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Bullseye29.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Bullseye30.jpg

And since you're using the Daredevil and Elektra simultaneous fight, here is Bullseye's latest apparance before that where he gets singlehandedly badly beaten by Daredevil ..

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_DaredevilV249S2K-16.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_DaredevilV249S2K-17.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_DaredevilV249S2K-18.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_DaredevilV249S2K-1920.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_DaredevilV249S2K-21.jpg

And after that, when a flat-out exhausted Daredevil destroys him.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Daredevil086page19.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Daredevil086page20.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Daredevil086page21.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Daredevil086page22.jpg

Where do we even put the Punisher showings, where he is just destroyed hand to hand, despite Punisher always starting at a disadvantage:

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_VFX-PunishvervsBullseye4-013.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_VFX-PunishvervsBullseye4-014.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_VFX-PunishvervsBullseye4-015.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_VFX-PunishvervsBullseye4-016.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_VFX-PunishvervsBullseye4-017.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_VFX-PunishvervsBullseye4-018.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_VFX-PunishvervsBullseye4-019.jpg

---

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Punisher001-19.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Punisher001-20.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Punisher001-21.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Punisher001-22.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Punisher001-23.jpg

Not to mention the Captain America issue where Crossbones had his number before he used the tooth and then made his escape.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Bullseye33.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Bullseye34.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Bullseye35.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Bullseye36.jpg

And let's just take a look at how Daredevil dodges Bullseye's attacks:

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Bullseye8.jpg

That looks familiar. Only vastly inferior to the degree Cassandra has it.

Point is, Bullseye is very good with weapons, and has an incredible accuracy but, in this fight, it won't help him at all for the simple fact that he just won't be able to hit batgirl, due to her speed and body reading abilities. Once she gets up close, she just simply slaughters Bullseye. His few good showings against Elektra and Daredevil don't make up for other losess, while Cassandra has constantly been shown to be at least Batman's equal in h2h, having superior training, and constantly been shown as being better than one of the best (Shiva, Bronze Tiger).

And I'm pretty much done. The battle will be over at about an hour from now (at :28).

Good job Srank. Heh, our first battlezone.

nice job both. some enjoyable reading.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin


Now I have to go to eat at my sisters new restaurant... omfg... i read that wrong in my head first... *wipes head*

Originally posted by psycho gundam
omfg... i read that wrong in my head first... *wipes head*

Batgirl ftw

This has been enlightening for me.

Highlights are Batgirl's combination of moves that make her appear Metahuman. That works in her favor. Also that move reading thing she does. But that also, at least in my mind works, against her.

Bullseye has the ability to use anything as a weapon. Now Batgirl can dodge stuff well. Likely due to her move reading ability. She can see where someone is aiming and move accordingly.

So what happens when Bullseye does that crazy thing where he aims off and his weapons bounces around unpredictably and hits Batgirl? He's enough of a hand to hand fighter, that this could give him the win.

Of course, srankmissingnin didn't argue this way. Had he done that, I'd have given him the win. Spent too much time comparing DD and Elektra to Batgirl.

While Phil Spent more time focusing on Batgirl's abilities and strengths. based Upon Phil's argument, I have to give Batgirl the slight win.

(hypotetical discussion, and should not be taken into consideration for the battlezone)
That's of course assuming that Bullseye would go with that tactic from the start instead of trying to hit her directly, and that it would hit a speeding Batgirl, who has dodged bullets (even Sniper bullets) on multipled ocasions without even looking. Precision is one thing, but hitting somebody with Batgirl's abilities is another. Not only would she be able to see what Bullseye is thinking of doing due to her body reading, but due to Bullseye trying to hit her indirectly she would have a bigger amount of time to dodge Bullseye's attacks in the first place. Unless Batgirl is standing still, I certainly don't see her getting hit with such a tactic.

Thanks for voting. Cavalier and Digi are the ones remaining, and I recived an answer from Batdude who said he's up for vote too, and I think Srank would agree.

Originally posted by Starscream M
you shouldnt have 4 judges...could result in a tie

If it will, then another judge would decide the winner.

I'll have mine in sometime tonight.

Yep, that's cheating.

I only posted that because what Fangirl said can aswell affect the opinion of other judges once they read her post, and it's not fair that she gets to make arguments in Srank's favour without me defending myself.

Either way, I was adressing Fangirl's argument directly, and not really further sustaining my arguments or arguing against Srank's points, and I even put a warning beforehand, that this should not be used when judging the match, aswell as made it clear when the match ended.

Justifying an opinion and giving opinions on what tactics Srank could have mentioned so that Bullseye would supposdley use to have an advantage over Batgirl are 2 different things. If a judge would have read Fangirl's post before making up his mind, it might aswell have influenced his decision. They could go 'hey, you know, that tactic might work', despite Srank never mentioning it (and so, me not having the opportunity to contradict it), so I felt I had to defend my side. Even so, I made it clear that the match ended at a specific hour, and even in my post in regards to Fangirl's vote I said that it should not be taken into consideration to the match.

And Srank should be allowed to defend an argument he didn't even make in the first place ? Nice.

In the end, all I did was use counter-arguments in regards to a point Srank didn't even make, so even if the judges read fangirl's post and mine, it should have no influence over their decision.

Originally posted by fangirl101
The judges you picked know better. We don't judge based upon our opinions of the characters or what would have worked. Because My personal opinion isn't what I used to make a choice. I went off of who did the better job at debating.



I'm not criticizing your for your decision to put your personal opinion on what argument Srank could have used to gain victory, I'm just saying that it might influence other judges, and thus why I've reponded to it. Either way, this should have no bearing on the other judges's decision.

Originally posted by Bentley
Just as easily they can think "hey, its true, Srank had that option and didn't take it, he doesn't deserve to win".

facepalm

You should stop right about now.

Anyway, I'm done here.

Note to self: Take it to PMs next time.

Most tournaments have banned the practice of competitors offering opinions of any nature in response to judges' votes, even when they're posted in the thread. It may influence others, yes, and it may not. Personally, I won't be reading FG's vote until after I make mine, nor Phil's response to it.

This isn't a tourney, so no harm I suppose. But one needs to be careful, because (as I think has been pointed out) if you respond to a judge with what you feel is a legit point, what's stopping srank from responding to you? Or you responding to that? And so on. Which is why time limits are set. It's a dangerous precedent to set.

Originally posted by DigiMark007


This isn't a tourney, so no harm I suppose. there is something on the line...loser gets banned from KMC for 2 weeks

Originally posted by Starscream M
there is something on the line...loser gets banned from KMC for 2 weeks

You realize that's a joke, yes?

Originally posted by DigiMark007
You realize that's a joke, yes? no, actually I didn't...why do you think its a joke?

Originally posted by Starscream M
no, actually I didn't...why do you think its a joke?

Because they can't force the mods to ban someone.

srug

Anyway, its clearly just for pride and fun's sake. Lighten up.

And if you had bothered to read the entirety of my post, instead of finding a single line to gripe about, you'd see that I'm planning on ignoring the extraneous opinions until after my decision, so that the final decision isn't tainted. Yet somehow you're attempting to make me the bad guy for downplaying this, when I'm actively taking steps to ensure the integrity of the match. Context is crucial, chum.

Votes?

Or is this officially the new Digi vs MB thread?

Sarcasm's not appreciated. He dropped it once I explained myself, and a few posts hardly commandeers a thread, especially when I was initially coming on to resolve any disputes and focus on the match.

I said my vote would be in tonight, and it will be. Snippy people ruin otherwise fun endeavors. I hope Phil and srank enjoyed themselves.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Sarcasm's not appreciated. He dropped it once I explained myself, and a few posts hardly commandeers a thread, especially when I was initially coming on to resolve any disputes and focus on the match.

I said my vote would be in tonight, and it will be. Snippy people ruin otherwise fun endeavors. I hope Phil and srank enjoyed themselves.

Well I'm sorry

Judge's Vote:

I feel like a lot was left unsaid that could have worked for Bullseye. Maybe a slightly longer time limit next time?

In any case, I usually want to side with the character who has some sort of documented "power" beyond H2H skill, but not enough was shown of Bullseye for me to justify that tendency. Phil did a better job of countering specific arguments made by srank, and while I get the feeling that Cassy has some low showings too, saying that she has been tagged by people like Robin and Nightwing (which I believed entirely, btw) isn't enough to counter the dismantling of certain feats that Phil was able to accomplish by either showing context or very low showings for Bullseye.

Also, as it pertains to ABC logic, I actually think it can be used occasionally, and so the "Elektra has done these things and Bullseye has beaten her" seemed valid to me, though only because the two characters have fought so many times that direct comparisons like this are more valid than ABC chains that are between character who have only met once or twice. It was, however, not enough in the end, especially since Elektra has also beaten him on occasion.

Good job to both. Voting Phil/Batgirl.

Going into this thread, I was originally assigning the win to Batgirl, but reading over the scans gave me something to think about.

When it came down to it, I felt Bullseye would take a win if he began with ranged shots, and would lose or hold his own in hand to hand combat.

The feats of Batgirl dodging failed to impress me greatly. It felt like touting that Wolverine beat "x amount of hand ninjas".

Meh.

However, seeing Daredevil knocked out with a paper airplane, and knowing of Bullseye's throwing feats that he performs casually gave me cause to think that he could hit Batgirl in a ranged fight. And honestly, he only needs to hit her once for him to then take an edge.

Anyways, I vote Bullseye. Phil failed to convince me that Batgirl outclassed Bullseye's history of feats.

So is Batdude going to vote?

Interesting votes. I'm always amused at how people can legitimately see things such different ways (a line I stole from leo, but it fits my thoughts well). I came in almost the opposite of Smurph, leaning toward Bullseye initially but going the other way in the end.

Maybe Smurph took fangirl's post into account

Thanks for taking the time and voting, all 3 of you.

Originally posted by Priest
So is Batdude going to vote?

Yes.

Edit.

I'd better not.

Does Bullseye get a gun for this fight?

It depends if that's considered standard equipment -which is one of the first questions I asked-.

Of course he gets a gun that is standard equipment

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Of course he gets a gun that is standard equipment

Thanks, but I'd rather hear it from either Philosophia, srank, or another judge.

^^^^^ I agree with that.

I went under the assumption that he didn't. It was never mentioned, and I was basing it on Bullseye needing to use the environment for weaponry, which is well within his ability.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I went under the assumption that he didn't. It was never mentioned, and I was basing it on Bullseye needing to use the environment for weaponry, which is well within his ability. that was my assumption as well.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I went under the assumption that he didn't. It was never mentioned, and I was basing it on Bullseye needing to use the environment for weaponry, which is well within his ability.
The OP says that they both have standard equipment, and I'm pretty sure(but not positive) that Bullseye carries a gun around with him most of the time. I think he should have one for this match, but maybe that's just me.

I might be wrong but I'm not sure a gun is standard for Bullseye.

@ everybody

Originally posted by batdude123
@ everybody Co-signed with a facepalm

Before the match I stressed the need to specifically define standard equipment. If actual equipment wasn't listed, that's the fault of those debating for either character.

I really don't think either Srank nor Phil assumed a gun as regular equipment for BE in this match.

The gun isn't a standart equipment.

And the whole standart equipment thing wasn't really more defined because none of us really cared about it, especially since its vaguely defined, especially for Batgirl, who has only used explosions and a few other stuff on a few ocasions, which I chose to not take into consideration.

actaully Bulleye currently carries a gun as standard equiptment..........

Originally posted by Battlehammer
actaully Bulleye currently carries a gun as standard equiptment.......... really...care to prove it?

Originally posted by Starscream M
really...care to prove it?

Here......

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5746/bullseyetz3.th.jpghttp://img530.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif

Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
Here......

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5746/bullseyetz3.th.jpghttp://img530.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif

lol

Originally posted by Starscream M
really...care to prove it?
his latest apearences was in last issue of secret invasion which he wileding a gun..........sans in the bulleye respect thread

Originally posted by Battlehammer
his latest apearences was in last issue of secret invasion which he wileding a gun..........sans in the bulleye respect thread

So was Norman osbourne?

Originally posted by Bada's Palin
So was Norman osbourne?

So he has a gun also as default equipment. What part of this didn't you get?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
his latest apearences was in last issue of secret invasion which he wileding a gun..........sans in the bulleye respect thread how does that make it his standard equipment just because he has it in the latest comic?

Originally posted by Endrict Nuul
So he has a gun also as default equipment. What part of this didn't you get?

No it's not, he just had it in this incident.

Having it in the "latest appearance" isn't akin to always having it.

This was a pretty tough decision for me to make. I tried to take everything into consideration from each side of the argument to make my conclusion. Both srank and Philosophia did a wonderful job of displaying the skills and abilities of Batgirl and Bullseye.

So with that said, I give my vote in this match to Philosophia. I felt that he showed enough evidence to sway my vote his way. Srank did indeed show Bullseye as being tough, fighting the likes of Daredevil and Elektra. Here's the kicker, Bullseye religiously studies both Matt and Elektra to the point of obsession. He knows every strength, weakness, flaw, etc. that they have. So it's no wonder that he's portrayed as their equal many times. He's not going to have the advantage here with Batgirl. She is almost completely unpredictable with her movements. And with her ability to read body motion to the point that she knows what her opponents will do before they do, I think she'd end up winning an encounter with him. As we've seen with the Punisher, he's displayed what it takes in order to beat Bullseye. I really don't consider Punisher on Batgirl's level, to be honest.

Good job to both competitors. Very entertaining. Perhaps things might have come out differently had srank given more than just a couple posts. srug

Pretty much agree with Bats. Anyways, I also agree with the "well fought" part. I knew very little about either character (a little about Bullseye and almost nothing about Cass), so this was enlightening to me.

And with that, Phil has a 3-1 lead. Unless we're planning on 7+ judges, that seals it. Congrats Phil, and also to srank. I'd love to see more similar Battlezones, especially with perhaps a slightly longer time limit.

Curses! I'll get you next time Phil!!!

*Disappears in a cloud of smoke*

Thanks for the votes everyone. Yeah, hopefully, more debates likes this will pop-up.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Curses! I'll get you next time Phil!!!

*Disappears in a cloud of smoke*

Heh.

It's been a pleasure.

Bumpz.

This belongs in the battlezone forum aswell.