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broly at full strenght vegeta likewise vegeta didnt do so good as a ssj2 can he do any better as a ssj4

Originally posted by DantevsKratos
broly at full strenght vegeta likewise vegeta didnt do so good as a ssj2 can he do any better as a ssj4

vegeta never fought brolly ssj2

thats weird but u still didnt say who would win

owhh..another broly thread..this will get ugly..anyway..vegeta take this..
broly fought ssj1 vegeta..not ssj2..

i get it 1 not 2

Brolly wins, did ssj4 vegeta do any thing except get his ass kicked?

Does Vegeta ever do anything but get his butt kicked anyway?

He has beaten Goku...

Broly wins.

Originally posted by Kento
Does Vegeta ever do anything but get his butt kicked anyway?

Well, if it weren't for him Goku would have lost to Buu. And Gohan wouldn't have been able to beat Cell. Oh yeah, Android 19 too.

Anyways, Vegeta wins at SSJ4. Broly was beaten by SSJ1 Goku, with power lent to him from SSJ1 Vegeta and Trunks, and Piccolo. I'd bet on SSJ2 Vegeta to win, actually. SSJ4 should be no contest.
Think about it- SSJ4 should be more than 10x stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta (Ozaru is 10x as strong as a Saiyan in his natural state). So even if SSJ4 is no stronger than Golden Ozaru, that should still be more than enough.

SS4 vegeta will win and he has stronger than broly

ok i choose ssj4 vegeta

vegeta would prolly lose if it was ssj2 because in the movie everyone took way more hits then vegeta. Vegeta ran into the fight got slammed into a boulder and that was it for him

Originally posted by yungz22
vegeta would prolly lose if it was ssj2 because in the movie everyone took way more hits then vegeta. Vegeta ran into the fight got slammed into a boulder and that was it for him

Yes, except he wasn't actually that hurt. He took one hit, and in the manga or anime series he would have gotten straight back into the fight, even if he couldn't win (e.g. Frieza, Perfect Cell).
For some reason though, in the movie he just stands around moping saying that "we're all doomed".
When I say Vegeta SSJ2, i'm talking EoZ SSJ2- he's at least as strong as Goku in SSJ2 if not more.

Originally posted by jimBOFH
Yes, except he wasn't actually that hurt. He took one hit, and in the manga or anime series he would have gotten straight back into the fight, even if he couldn't win (e.g. Frieza, Perfect Cell).
For some reason though, in the movie he just stands around moping saying that "we're all doomed".
When I say Vegeta SSJ2, i'm talking EoZ SSJ2- he's at least as strong as Goku in SSJ2 if not more. Getting koed in one-hit and barley being able to stand when he wakes up means he was hurt.

And yea that was very unlike Vegeta. But he'd also heard the legends, and Broli didn't even acknowledge his first attack. It was like Freeza. He knew Freeza destroyed his planet but he wasn't strong enough so he followed Freeza because he couldn't win. Where Gokou fought knowing he may not be strong enough to beat Freeza. That is where Vegeta and Gokou differ and why Gokou is stronger.

Originally posted by Kento
Getting koed in one-hit and barley being able to stand when he wakes up means he was hurt.

And yea that was very unlike Vegeta. But he'd also heard the legends, and Broli didn't even acknowledge his first attack. It was like Freeza. He knew Freeza destroyed his planet but he wasn't strong enough so he followed Freeza because he couldn't win. Where Gokou fought knowing he may not be strong enough to beat Freeza. That is where Vegeta and Gokou differ and why Gokou is stronger.
Vegeta did fight Frieza, but he wanted to be sure he could win. If Guru hadn't died when he did, Vegeta's plan would have worked perfectly- although he most likely would have killed Goku afterwards. As it was, he thought he had a very slim chance to beat Frieza when he challenged him, but he kept fighting once that chance had long gone because of his sense of pride and honour. Whenever he's been hopelessly outmatched in a fight in the series- Buu, Cell, Frieza- he's gone down fighting. I thought the characterisation for the movie was pretty terrible, actually- particularly at the beginning when Vegeta agrees to go with Paragus.

Anyways, sure, he was a lot weaker than Broli as an SSJ1. But this was pre-Cell Games- his strength increases by orders of magnitude by the EoZ, not to mention his speed- Broli really doesn't seem fast enough to fight with Goku or Vegeta by EoZ.

Originally posted by jimBOFH
I thought the characterisation for the movie was pretty terrible, actually- particularly at the beginning when Vegeta agrees to go with Paragus.

Anyways, sure, he was a lot weaker than Broli as an SSJ1. But this was pre-Cell Games- his strength increases by orders of magnitude by the EoZ, not to mention his speed- Broli really doesn't seem fast enough to fight with Goku or Vegeta by EoZ.


I didn't. They were trying to show what Broly was, which is why Paragus commented on Vegeta being the only one knowing what they were really up against. Vegeta's whole life was about becoming a Super Sayain and after he reached it he assumed he was now a legendary ssj. Then Broly comes and shatters that notion. Samething happened when during the Namek saga when Vegeta was the only one who realized how much more powerful Freeza was. Vegeta eventually came through it both times.

Originally posted by jimBOFH
Vegeta did fight Frieza, but he wanted to be sure he could win. If Guru hadn't died when he did, Vegeta's plan would have worked perfectly- although he most likely would have killed Goku afterwards. As it was, he thought he had a very slim chance to beat Frieza when he challenged him, but he kept fighting once that chance had long gone because of his sense of pride and honour. Whenever he's been hopelessly outmatched in a fight in the series- Buu, Cell, Frieza- he's gone down fighting. I thought the characterisation for the movie was pretty terrible, actually- particularly at the beginning when Vegeta agrees to go with Paragus.

Anyways, sure, he was a lot weaker than Broli as an SSJ1. But this was pre-Cell Games- his strength increases by orders of magnitude by the EoZ, not to mention his speed- Broli really doesn't seem fast enough to fight with Goku or Vegeta by EoZ. Vegeta only fought once he assumed he was strong enough to win. And wanted to cheat by being immortal. Until then he let Freeza order him around. Cell he thought he was stronger than. Buu Saga is when he changed, and realized why Gokou was strong. Vegeta fought people weaker than him, and then was beaten by people stronger. Gokou fought people stronger, grew stronger for it, and doesn't like fighting weaker people.

When Vegeta finally gets over his fear though was awesome. 'I'm the ruler of all saiyans. Even you Broli.'

Originally posted by TheBadguy
I didn't. They were trying to show what Broly was, which is why Paragus commented on Vegeta being the only one knowing what they were really up against. Vegeta's whole life was about becoming a Super Sayain and after he reached it he assumed he was now a legendary ssj. Then Broly comes and shatters that notion. Samething happened when during the Namek saga when Vegeta was the only one who realized how much more powerful Freeza was. Vegeta eventually came through it both times.
I don't mean the overall concept of the film, i mean just the writing and set up. It may have been due to time constraints or whatever, but the dialogue at the beginning of the film just didn't feel like the series.

Well Vegeta being a cocky bastard wanted the chance to defeat the "Legendary Super Saiyan", so he went with Paragus.

Broly wins.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Well Vegeta being a cocky bastard wanted the chance to defeat the "Legendary Super Saiyan", so he went with Paragus.
It's not the fact that he goes that i found annoying, it's just- normally in the series the dialogue is better than the movie was. The movie dialogue seemed...not fleshed out enough, imo, and consequently not very believable. Compare when Cell convinces Vegeta to let him absorb 18- the idea is similar (Vegeta undone by his hubris) but I thought the actual writing was much better.

ss4 vegeta will win he has more power than broly broly was beat with 1 punch

People overestimate Broly. Broly got beaten by a near death goku getting energy from Vegeta, Gohan, Picollo and Trunks, all whom were also near death- with one punch!!!

Broly first apearance = perfect cell
Broly second apearance = kid buu

Jeesh some of you people are simple minded. Dragonball Z is done and was lame to began with. Broly is a movie character so basically his whole story is bullshyt. He never existed in cannon but that being said Broly never fought SSJ 2 Vegito and if he did he would lose. SSJ 4 isn't cannon but if you want to say it is there is no way Broly could beat any Saijan that is SSJ 2 level or higher.

Since Broly isn't canon, he is not placed in the DBZ power hierarchy, not in any of them, so terms like SSJ or SSJ2 are meaningless.

Originally posted by big juggy man
Jeesh some of you people are simple minded. Dragonball Z is done and was lame to began with. Broly is a movie character so basically his whole story is bullshyt. He never existed in cannon but that being said Broly never fought SSJ 2 Vegito and if he did he would lose. SSJ 4 isn't cannon but if you want to say it is there is no way Broly could beat any Saijan that is SSJ 2 level or higher.

We may be simple minded but at least we can spell. Judging us for debating this is just like judging someone over at the Comic VS forum or the video game one, or the Star Wars forum. Do I go to your Naruto vs threads and call them lame and done? No so please don't do it here.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
People overestimate Broly. Broly got beaten by a near death goku getting energy from Vegeta, Gohan, Picollo and Trunks, all whom were also near death- with one punch!!!

Broly first apearance = perfect cell
Broly second apearance = kid buu

thank u people r just in love with broly i dont kno y

Originally posted by big juggy man
Jeesh some of you people are simple minded. Dragonball Z is done and was lame to began with. Broly is a movie character so basically his whole story is bullshyt. He never existed in cannon but that being said Broly never fought SSJ 2 Vegito and if he did he would lose. SSJ 4 isn't cannon but if you want to say it is there is no way Broly could beat any Saijan that is SSJ 2 level or higher.

dbz is done but it was not lame

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
People overestimate Broly. Broly got beaten by a near death goku getting energy from Vegeta, Gohan, Picollo and Trunks, all whom were also near death- with one punch!!!

Broly first apearance = perfect cell
Broly second apearance = kid buu
I think Broly is perhaps more powerful than perfect cell, in terms of attack, but unlike Cell he can't regenerate. Much the same with Buu, although i don't think he's quite as powerful as Kid Buu.

Originally posted by braveheart
thank u people r just in love with broly i dont kno y

in his second appearance he was prolly ssj2 level maybe slightly higher due to saiyans gaining power from near death experiences

I guess he would have been about the level that Gohan was when he first went SSJ2 against Cell. I don't think he was at the level that Vegeta and Goku were when they fought as SSJ2's.

Naruto fans have less than zero room to talk shit about dbz being lame

Originally posted by TheBadguy
Naruto fans have less than zero room to talk shit about dbz being lame

Exactly. I believe that the 2 minutes of fighting and 28 minutes of talking is equivalent to their thousands upon thousands of shadow clones in one fight and how the real antagonist is super powered but you just beat him but nope it turns out it was just a clone.

Broly wins. He wiped a galaxy out ftl.

Firstly, i dispute that galaxy thing (there's another thread about that). Secondly, even if he could, it's clearly not enough to help him against SSJ1 Goku with power from 4 other defeated warriors- either he can't do it, or Goku defend against such an attack. SSJ4 Vegeta >>>> SSJ1 Goku with energy from Vegeta, Trunks, Gohan and Piccolo.

Fact is. Broly was never truly beaten by Goku. He got hurt. The power of SSJ Goku, Trunks, Gohan, Vegeta, and Picolo all that power in one single punch and Brolly tanked it that and an exploding planet. Goku teleported who knows how far to saftey while brolly tanked everything and hijacked a Ship. So technically. All that power did nothing but stun Broly. Second time he was having a feild day with 2 SSJs and a SSJ2. Goten had to make a wish for them to destroy Brolli. And supposedlyt Goku another SSJ2 came back temporarily to help destroy brolly.

It might be an even Match at first. But Brolly simply keeps getting stronger. His power is unlimited by his anger

Originally posted by Csdabest
Fact is. Broly was never truly beaten by Goku. He got hurt. The power of SSJ Goku, Trunks, Gohan, Vegeta, and Picolo all that power in one single punch and Brolly tanked it that and an exploding planet. Goku teleported who knows how far to saftey while brolly tanked everything and hijacked a Ship. So technically. All that power did nothing but stun Broly. Second time he was having a feild day with 2 SSJs and a SSJ2. Goten had to make a wish for them to destroy Brolli. And supposedlyt Goku another SSJ2 came back temporarily to help destroy brolly.

It might be an even Match at first. But Brolly simply keeps getting stronger. His power is unlimited by his anger

Brolly was incapacitated by a punch from one injured SSJ with the power of several other even more injured SSJ's and Piccolo. So the first time round he was only somewhat more powerful than Perfect Cell, still far inferior to SSJ2 Gohan. The second time round he's stronger than SSJ2 Gohan (who is much weaker than he was when he fought Cell) and SSJ Goten and Trunks, who are weaker than the trio of SSJ Vegeta, SSJ Mirai Trunks and Piccolo- his strength hasn't increased all that much between the two fights. By the time of the Great Saiyaman Saga, Vegeta is stronger than SSJ2 Gohan even before he gets possessed. And unlike Gohan, Vegeta never gets weaker- he is always training at his absolute limits. Brolly doesn't train, he doesn't have access to the training facilities that Vegeta uses nor does he have a rival of comparable strength to spar with. So while Broly's fighting power increases over the course of a fight, his base power just doesn't increase at the rate that Vegeta's does. Given that, I'd say that Great Saiyaman Saga SSJ2 Vegeta would be stronger than Broly at the beginning of the fight, though perhaps not by much. However, EoZ Vegeta >> Kid Buu Saga Vegeta >> Majin Vegeta >> Great Saiyaman Saga Vegeta. I don't think Broly from the 2nd movie would have a chance against Vegeta post-World Tournament.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Fact is. Broly was never truly beaten by Goku. He got hurt. The power of SSJ Goku, Trunks, Gohan, Vegeta, and Picolo all that power in one single punch and Brolly tanked it that and an exploding planet. Goku teleported who knows how far to saftey while brolly tanked everything and hijacked a Ship. So technically. All that power did nothing but stun Broly. Second time he was having a feild day with 2 SSJs and a SSJ2. Goten had to make a wish for them to destroy Brolli. And supposedlyt Goku another SSJ2 came back temporarily to help destroy brolly.

It might be an even Match at first. But Brolly simply keeps getting stronger. His power is unlimited by his anger

Gohan didnt even go ssj2 neither did goku they were just super saiyans.
Because Gohan stopped training ssj2 is too much of a strain so he usually just goes ssj1

Originally posted by yungz22
Gohan didnt even go ssj2 neither did goku they were just super saiyans.
Because Gohan stopped training ssj2 is too much of a strain so he usually just goes ssj1

Really? Well, it's a moot point really. Weakened SSJ2 Gohan + SSJ Chibi Trunks + SSJ Goten <= Ascended SSJ Goku + Ascended SSJ Vegeta + Ascended SSJ Gohan + Ascended SSJ Mirai Trunks + Piccolo.
In any case, both SSJ2 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta are stronger than Gohan at this time.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Broly wins. He wiped a galaxy out ftl.

lets not bring up how e destroyed the galaxy

Originally posted by braveheart
lets not bring up how e destroyed the galaxy
I second that.

SSj4 Vegeta about = Ssj4 Goku

SSj4 Goku >> SS3 Goku (duh)

SSj3 Goku >= Kid Buu (Goku said he could beat Kid Buu)

Kid Buu >> Fat Buu

Fat Buu >>> Perfect Cell

Perfect Cell > 5 near dead sayains w/some pis (there was a little)

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
SSj4 Vegeta about = Ssj4 Goku

SSj4 Goku >> SS3 Goku (duh)

SSj3 Goku >= Kid Buu (Goku said he could beat Kid Buu)

Kid Buu >> Fat Buu

Fat Buu >>> Perfect Cell

Perfect Cell > 5 near dead sayains w/some pis (there was a little)
Um...explain that last line?
Also, Perfect Cell isn't actually stronger than Vegeta's most powerful attacks- he wasn't able to block Final Flash, and Vegeta also inflicted significant damage after Trunks was killed. However, Cell just regenerates both times, and becomes stronger in the process.

Originally posted by jimBOFH
Also, Perfect Cell isn't actually stronger than Vegeta's most powerful attacks- he wasn't able to block Final Flash
And yet, a Cell Jr. cancelled it out with relative ease.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
And yet, a Cell Jr. cancelled it out with relative ease.
The Cell Juniors seem way OP'd, compared to Cell's strength. However, Cell becomes stronger each time someone damages him without killing him, so i guess that could be it.

Isn't this a spite thread?

broly doesn't need regeneration. He tanks everything but the sun. he ate a mouthful of Kamehameha and didnt budge

Gohan as ssj2 had a hard time with Broly. He hit him right in the face and Broly just smiled big and grabbed him.

But SSJ4 would def win. I would even go as far as to say ssj3 would win too.

when did broly fought an ssj2 gohan??

According to the Daizenshuu he fought ssj2 Gohan in movie 10. Or so I hear. Though Gohan was probably about as strong as Perfect Cell those seven years later but weaker than Super Perfect Cell. Cause a few months of training made him strong enough to match Dabura who is supposedly Super Perfect Cell's equal.

Though half of that is just speculation. *shrugs*

oh..tq..i was just wondering cuz i didn't see him turn into an ssj2 in the movie that he, trunks and gotenk fought broly..

Originally posted by Csdabest
broly doesn't need regeneration. He tanks everything but the sun. he ate a mouthful of Kamehameha and didnt budge

which is why the kamehameha pushed him into the sun.....Anyway ssj4 can create blasts way equal to or stronger than that blast

Originally posted by Csdabest
broly doesn't need regeneration. He tanks everything but the sun. he ate a mouthful of Kamehameha and didnt budge

wen he was takin those kamehamehas goku was not ss4

Originally posted by Zalindrana
Gohan as ssj2 had a hard time with Broly. He hit him right in the face and Broly just smiled big and grabbed him.

But SSJ4 would def win. I would even go as far as to say ssj3 would win too.
I'd say that SSJ2 Goku and Vegeta at EoZ, or Mystic Gohan at end of Kid Buu Saga, would also win against Broly.

Broly is at most equal to kid buu. SSJ4 Vegeta would not budge at 3 kamehamehas from SSJ's and an SSJ2.

i think at most he is at cell level..kid buu is too much..

to all of you who say vegeta would lose you guys are full of sh!t. Majin vegeta ssj2 would rape broly like he was nothing. he would be nothing but trash to the majin prince. and goku is a queer he was weaker then vegeta and always has been. the only thing that gave goku the edge over vegeta was spirit realm kai training. its practically cheating or taking steroids. give vegeta the same training and goku and his son would be nothing to him. everyone who truely is a dbz fan knows that akira toreyama and toei hated vegeta, he was ment to die but his fans wanted him back, to be honest he is the only reason dbz got good ratings. every episode without him got very poor ratings. so suck it goku fans suck it deep and dry b!tches

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
And yet, a Cell Jr. cancelled it out with relative ease. thats a filler episode everyone knows they dont count. fact vegeta's final flash would of pwned cell why the hell do you think he got scared and moved. the final flash had way more then enough to turn him into nothing but dust. dont use filler episodes as evidence those are just for slowing down the anime so the manga can catch up

Originally posted by kageamg
thats a filler episode everyone knows they dont count. fact vegeta's final flash would of pwned cell why the hell do you think he got scared and moved. the final flash had way more then enough to turn him into nothing but dust. dont use filler episodes as evidence those are just for slowing down the anime so the manga can catch up
Cell may have been surprised by Final Flash at first, but he didn't move. If he had, the earth would've blown up. The attack has more than enough power to destroy the planet, and Cell deflected it, having just an arm and wing blown off in the process.

Even Goku when hyperbolically trained could only destroy half of Cell with his fully powered Kamehameha + Instant Transmission. Regardless of what I mentioned earlier being a filler, there was nothing Vegeta had or could do at the time that would completely annihilate Gero's ultimate android.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Cell may have been surprised by Final Flash at first, but he didn't move. If he had, the earth would've blown up. The attack has more than enough power to destroy the planet, and Cell deflected it, having just an arm and wing blown off in the process.

Even Goku when hyperbolically trained could only destroy half of Cell with his fully powered Kamehameha + Instant Transmission. Regardless of what I mentioned earlier being a filler, there was nothing Vegeta had or could do at the time that would completely annihilate Gero's ultimate android.

lmao, you really have no idea what your talking about. Cell moved. when vegeta fired the final flash, cell got scared shitless. you remember the fear in his eyes when he said WHATS THIS?!? how about when vegeta said, i actually hit you. he moved at the last second the part of him that Was hit was completely destroyed. so if he would of been hit by the full blast he would be dead, and the final flash was NOT aimed at the planet. cell did not have the power to deflect the final flash. so stop sticking up for goku. he sucks end of story

WTF? Some guys here think that Broly in LSS would give SS4 Vegeta a hard time? Or am I assuming too much facepalm?

I mean, if Broly were allowed to accumulate power (perhaps even ascend to higher forms like LSS3 or LSS4) and train hard to master said forms or LSS, then sure, he'd win. But the Broly we've seen in the movies loses, even against SS2 Vegeta .

Both are already non-canon so meh.

another stupid Broly thread? there is no way in hell broly could beat any ssj4 character. jeesh you people are slow

Okay, is this a serious thread? Anyone who has actually watched and fully comprehended the series should be able to understand anyone at the SSJ4 level is much higher than Broly's LSSJ level.

Ok...I LOVE Broly seriously...especially in the new game in the what if where he gets SSJ3 ;D...but seriously...

..ok...we're talking about

*counts*

at THE VERY LEAST..2 lvls higher..and i'm being generous....I love Brolly and in the back of my mind i'll always pretend he beats everything but seriously SSJ4 is too far out of his league.

Vegeta. The strength of him in the Broly fight compared to him at the end of GT, then times it by whatever to get SSJ4. As Goku could beat a stronger Freeza and Cell without much effort or SSJ form, Vegeta by the end should be at least that level of power if not more (as normal). (Btw where are the stronger Freeza and Cell in GT together when compared to Broly?)

Originally posted by BloodRain
As Goku could beat a stronger Freeza and Cell without much effort or SSJ form
That was all faggotry though, like the majority of GT itself.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
That was all faggotry though, like the majority of GT itself.

True, buts as its about 'ssj4' Vegeta all that GT crap is open to use.

vegeta stomp..

I consider LSS to be roughly very high end SS2, but not quite at SS3 level. Under that mentality, SS4 should logically be a stomp in Vegeta's favour.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I consider LSS to be roughly very high end SS2, but not quite at SS3 level. Under that mentality, SS4 should logically be a stomp in Vegeta's favour.

And I consider it, based on the fact that neither Gohan nor Goku were full power super saiyans, that Broli is just a really high level SSJ, and not even at the level of a full power super saiyan.

Here's the logic:

Vegeta, at SSJ, kicked android 19 and 20s asses. Then, he got his ass utterly handed to him by 17 and 18. It was a stomp. Just as bad if not worse than Broli's stomp against the Z fighters.

Imperfect cell RAPED the shit out of android 17. 17 was stronger than 18.

Vegeta did training in the HBTC. The power gap was HUGE between Semi-Perfect Cell and Vegeta: much further than imperfect cell and 17.

Then, Perfect Cell raped the shit out of HBTC trained Vegeta. Rather easily.

THEN, HBTC trained Goku was almost dead even with Perfect Cell.


So, going by that logic, Vegeta and Trunks, (with trunks having long hair, proving that he had trained in the HBTC), and Gohan and Goku BEFORE they had reached full power SSJ (because they were not in the constant state of SSJ, like the FPSSJ form has).

By that logic, Goku and Gohan would have utterly raped Broli. Goku was outclassed, for sure, but it wasn't an utter stomp as Goku was able to hang in there for quite some time.


The difference between pre-HBTC Goku and post is HUGE. It is ridiculous. Vegeta and Goku were about the same before either trained in the HBTC. The power gap for Vegeta, himself, is very large. The power gap between Goku and Vegeta trained is huge.

pre-HBTC trained Goku = pre-HBTC Vegeta (about equal. Some say the Vegeta might have been a tad stronger.)

Post HBTC trained Vegeta >>>>> pre-HBTC trained Goku.
Post HBTC trainedVegeta <<< Post-HBTC trained Goku.

Full power SSJ Broli >> SSJ Goku. (Probably with a tad bit of HBTC training.)

SSJ2 Gohan >>>>>> Perfect Cell. (He was owning his ass and he was just toying with him.)



Perfect Cell is more powerful than Broli, no doubt. He is definitely significantly faster. I would put their Ki energy levels around the same...with Perfect Cell being slightly higher.

Originally posted by dadudemon
And I consider it, based on the fact that neither Gohan nor Goku were full power super saiyans, that Broli is just a really high level SSJ, and not even at the level of a full power super saiyan.

Here's the logic:

Vegeta, at SSJ, kicked android 19 and 20s asses. Then, he got his ass utterly handed to him by 17 and 18. It was a stomp. Just as bad if not worse than Broli's stomp against the Z fighters.

Imperfect cell RAPED the shit out of android 17. 17 was stronger than 18.

Vegeta did training in the HBTC. The power gap was HUGE between Semi-Perfect Cell and Vegeta: much further than imperfect cell and 17.

Then, Perfect Cell raped the shit out of HBTC trained Vegeta. Rather easily.

THEN, HBTC trained Goku was almost dead even with Perfect Cell.


So, going by that logic, Vegeta and Trunks, (with trunks having long hair, proving that he had trained in the HBTC), and Gohan and Goku BEFORE they had reached full power SSJ (because they were not in the constant state of SSJ, like the FPSSJ form has).

By that logic, Goku and Gohan would have utterly raped Broli. Goku was outclassed, for sure, but it wasn't an utter stomp as Goku was able to hang in there for quite some time.


The difference between pre-HBTC Goku and post is HUGE. It is ridiculous. Vegeta and Goku were about the same before either trained in the HBTC. The power gap for Vegeta, himself, is very large. The power gap between Goku and Vegeta trained is huge.

pre-HBTC trained Goku = pre-HBTC Vegeta (about equal. Some say the Vegeta might have been a tad stronger.)

Post HBTC trained Vegeta >>>>> pre-HBTC trained Goku.
Post HBTC trainedVegeta <<< Post-HBTC trained Goku.

Full power SSJ Broli >> SSJ Goku. (Probably with a tad bit of HBTC training.)

SSJ2 Gohan >>>>>> Perfect Cell. (He was owning his ass and he was just toying with him.)



Perfect Cell is more powerful than Broli, no doubt. He is definitely significantly faster. I would put their Ki energy levels around the same...with Perfect Cell being slightly higher.

Vegeta wins. /end

yep vegeta would let brolly punch him, and shoot him with all he has, then vageta would flick him in the head and it would explode

Considering it took a SSJ, a SSJ2, and post Cell Goku simultaneously to actually kill Broly in the end tells me otherwise.

Broly is overrated, especially when someone puts him above a Super Saiyan 4 in power. Goku even commented that Hatchiyak might be stronger than him.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Considering it took a SSJ, a SSJ2, and post Cell Goku simultaneously to actually kill Broly in the end tells me otherwise. a ssj2 that seemed even weaker that a fpssj, didn't show any signs that he was a ssj2, and had help from a wish that wasn't even granted. (no dragon, didn't call out the dragon, and the balls had more than one wish. That means goku wasn't actually there, no wish was actually made, and we have 3 low to mid level ssjs against a ussj with the speed of a fpssj.) the fact that broli got chunks of his belly and chest punched off of his body, he exploded at the gaping wound hole just punched across his torso, and the dragon balls can't bring someone back to this world from other world, more thN points to that
movie being even more shit than movie 8, relative to canon. It's not even logical canon to movie 8, much less the actual manga.

ss4 vegeata get pwns by broly's massive power

Originally posted by wammamram
ss4 vegeata get pwns by broly's massive power

What no facts? Check out the statistics.

sadly lss broly is only about as powerful as super sayian 3. so...... vegeta would stomp him to the ground

Originally posted by wammamram
sadly lss broly is only about as powerful as super sayian 3. so...... vegeta would stomp him to the ground

Originally posted by wammamram
ss4 vegeata get pwns by broly's massive power

....

the only way Broly wins this is if he were alive and training during the 20+ year time gap seperating him and SS4 Vegeta.

Originally posted by danteiscool
the only way Broly wins this is if he were alive and training during the 20+ year time gap seperating him and SS4 Vegeta.
Broly would always be too busy destroying planets/galaxies for him to sit back and train though.

btw ridley prime you have an awesome signature

to Ridley Prime: yeah that's true, but Broly also continually gets stronger anyway as he goes around the place. in movie 8 after pummeling Goku, Gohan, and Trunks he got a power boost. if he gets power boosts like that for 20 years or so, then he can beat SS4 Vegeta. but only on that condition.

but wait, where would they fight if Broly were to live that long, destroying planets?

Its a Saiyan trait to get stronger with every fight.

Originally posted by danteiscool
to Ridley Prime: yeah that's true, but Broly also continually gets stronger anyway as he goes around the place. in movie 8 after pummeling Goku, Gohan, and Trunks he got a power boost. if he gets power boosts like that for 20 years or so, then he can beat SS4 Vegeta. but only on that condition.

but wait, where would they fight if Broly were to live that long, destroying planets?

With that knowledge as well vegeta continues to get stronger through all his other fights & then the ssj4 boost which is way over legendary super saiyan.

vegeta has always been weaker than goku very slightly, so lets forget about him because if goku can't beat him than vegeta can't, simple as that.

so my reply is based on ss4 goku vs legendary super saiyan broly which is equal to ss4 vegeta vs broly, only better since ss4 vegeta is slightly weaker than ss4 goku.

I like Vegeta heaps better than goku but that's just how it is.
Now on to my reply:

Super saiyan 4 goku on a 1on1 battle against Legendary Super Saiyan Broly would have a chance to beat him, but not without copping a shit-load of damage and if he did it quickly due to Broly's ever increasing power. however due to the circumstances, after a few moments of battle, ss4 goku would not stand a chance.

why i say this and my evidence:

The broly event happened after the android saga.
Gohan never did turn super saiyan 2 in the battle against broly (supposedly because even after the battle with cell, it was still hard for Gohan to turn super saiyan 2 again because he still couldn't control it and had to get "really pissed 10x" but didn't get the chance because he got knocked out pretty early in the battle with Broly and didn't really rejoin).

more evidence to back this up: Because Gohan hadn't turned super saiyan yet at the beginning of the cell saga since he actually attained it by training for approx. 2 years in the hyperbolic time chamber to face semi-perfect cell afterwards;
AND coincidently he was able to turn super saiyan straight away in the Broly event.

so through this, piccolo at this time would be a super namekian through kami fusion, pretty much equal to super saiyan 1.

now on to the point:

basically in the battle, all 5 fighters, Goku, Vegeta,Trunks, Piccolo and Gohan had received a freakin' belting from Broly.

So Piccolo, gohan, vegeta and trunks had to transfer almost their entire supply of ki and life energy (since they all fainted from exhaustion after the transfer) to Goku. Thats basically the fusion of 5 super saiyans ( counting piccolo's super namekian power as one, since his ki is equal to that of a super saiyan; and since goku already has super saiyan power, obviously makes another, so that's 2 plus Vegeta,trunks and gohan = 5 ) into one person, goku.

in calculation, what goku becomes after the transfer is more powerful than super vegito (super saiyan vegito) from buu saga.
Vegito is the fusion of 2 super saiyans through potara, remember potara gives a boost to the fusion and is stronger than super saiyan 3 and equal to super saiyan 4, so lets be generous and say that through potara fusion and potara boost, thats 3 super saiyans in super vegito (super saiyan vegito) plus power up from potara.

3 super saiyans vs 5 super saiyans; the obvious winner is 5 super saiyans.

on to the point:

okay, so we've got goku in his new state against broly.
If you all notice, goku charges every bit of power he has attained including his own, into ONE punch. So this punch so COINCIDENTLY hits Broly in the ABDOMEN. remember that his abdomen is the most vulnerable part in his body since he was stabbed there as a baby.

From the impact, Broly gets more than critically damaged and is sent falling to the ground, never to be seen again until the next movie which in the beginning shows he is still alive, coming in a saiyan space ship to Earth, then shows that he was near death, bleeding from critical damage and got frozen under the ice on Earth. in other words, he DID NOT DIE from a full energy given punch by goku who in that state was stronger than SUPER VEGITO!!! meaning stronger than SUPER SAIYAN 4!!!

The only reason broly was overwhelmed was because the punch landed on his abdomen, his vulnerable spot since childhood.

Now lets hit the Rewind button and go back to the moment where goku is going to land the punch:

lets create a new scenario and say this awesome punch hit another body part, like for example Broly's chest. The punch lands on his chest, and Broly is sent flying and is dealt quite the damage... But thats it, from a full-energy consumed punch from someone who is stronger than super vegito, meaning stronger than super saiyan 4.

that would have been the most damage dealt to Broly in the entire battle, and it would be the last since goku expended ALL of his energy on that single punch, Goku after that would be defenceless and All hope is lost and everyone would be screwed.

So after all of this evidence, i think its safe to say that Super saiyan 4 goku on a 1on1 battle against Legendary Super Saiyan Broly would have a teeny-tiny chance to beat him but only in the first few moments of the battle since Broly's strength would have increased dramatically due to constant energy increase.

After those few precious moments, Super Saiyan 4 Goku would not stand a chance against Legendary Super Saiyan Broly.


Legendary Super Saiyan Broly RULES!!!!!!! XD!!!

Originally posted by Flayne
From the impact, Broly gets more than critically damaged and is sent falling to the ground, never to be seen again until the next movie which in the beginning shows he is still alive, coming in a saiyan space ship to Earth, then shows that he was near death, bleeding from critical damage and got frozen under the ice on Earth. in other words, he DID NOT DIE from a full energy given punch by goku who in that state was stronger than SUPER VEGITO!!! meaning stronger than SUPER SAIYAN 4!!!
This paragraph was the farthest I could bring myself to read, then I stopped reading. Only wish I had stopped sooner.

@ Ridley_Prime,

well obviously from your comment, you don't agree.

then correct me if u think i'm wrong, provide me with some kind of evidence that makes my conclusion wrong, don't just post something that simply says u don't agree.

because by posting this kind of comment without any reference to why you think i'm wrong, it obviously marks your ignorance in the topic and therefore nullifies the value of your disagreement.

First post your evidence that Goku was more powerful than Super Vegito when he received the powers from the others.

That is the single point your entire view hinges on, and it is filled to the brim with baseless & ridiculous speculation; namely your idea that the power of Super Vegito is equal to that of three Super Saiyans.

@ Demonic Phoenix,

actually i believe i have provided enough evidence to support that fact, and through this quote from my post "thats 3 super saiyans in super vegito",

"IN"

so this isn't the power of simply three super saiyans because that could mean the power of 3 super saiyans in their seperate individual state, and this is not what i was saying, thats unspecified.

by being generous to vegito, as to saying, this is the power of
3 "MERGED" super saiyans, 3 "IN" 1.

( originally just 2 super saiyans fusing but being generous as to add one more because of the extra power boost potara gives )

the power of 3 Merged super saiyans is not the same thing as the power of 3 super saiyans in their individual state.

3 super saiyans in their individual state would get bloody thrashed in a fight against an individual whom is the result of 3 super saiyans "MERGED" together.

in conclusion what im saying is that super vegito has the same power as that of 3 super saiyans "MERGED" together.

so i suggest you should read my statements correctly before posting something that changes my words completely or something that is completely unspecified.

now i await your provided evidence as to why my statement:

"is filled to the brim with baseless & ridiculous speculation"

Originally posted by Flayne
@ Demonic Phoenix,

actually i believe i have provided enough evidence to support that fact, and through this quote from my post "thats 3 super saiyans in super vegito",

"IN"

so this isn't the power of simply three super saiyans because that could mean the power of 3 super saiyans in their seperate individual state, and this is not what i was saying, thats unspecified.

by being generous to vegito, as to saying, this is the power of
3 "MERGED" super saiyans, 3 "IN" 1.

( originally just 2 super saiyans fusing but being generous as to add one more because of the extra power boost potara gives )

the power of 3 Merged super saiyans is not the same thing as the power of 3 super saiyans in their individual state.

3 super saiyans in their individual state would get bloody thrashed in a fight against an individual whom is the result of 3 super saiyans "MERGED" together.

in conclusion what im saying is that super vegito has the same power as that of 3 super saiyans "MERGED" together.

so i suggest you should read my statements correctly before posting something that changes my words completely or something that is completely unspecified.

now i await your provided evidence as to why my statement:

"is filled to the brim with baseless & ridiculous speculation"

Fair enough, my apologies for misreading your words.


I had a chance to properly read your first post. Let us look at what you have termed as 'facts'.

1. Super Vegito is as powerful as 3 Super Saiyans 'merged together'. Your reasoning being that the Potara Fusion gives a 2 Saiyan Potara Fusion the same power boost that another Super Saiyan would give if there were three Super Saiyans merging together.
In other words, three Super Saiyans merged together would have the same power as 2 Super Saiyans merged together via the Potara fusion.
This is baseless speculation.

2. Super Vegito is as powerful as a Super Saiyan 4.
This is baseless speculation.

3. As Goku received the all Ki of his team-mates during the climax of his battle with Broly, you have deemed that this gave him the power of 5 Merged Super Saiyans.
In other words, he was as powerful as a Fusion between 5 Super Saiyans.
This is baseless speculation.

4. Your points imply that the simple act of transferring ki to someone is equivalent to the complex process of successfully fusing with that same person. You outright state "Thats basically the fusion of 5 super saiyans..." when transferring ki to someone is not the same as fusing with that same person.
Thus, your point is not just baseless speculation, but factually incorrect.

If you believe that transferring Ki is the same thing as a Potara Fusion/Fusion Dance, I need you to prove it.

It seems I was incorrect earlier. You believing that transferring Ki is equivalent to a Fusion is what your entire argument hinges on, not Goku being more powerful than Super Vegito.
Seeing as transferring Ki is not the same thing as a Fusion, your argument is obviously flawed.
________


As I've addressed your points in the manner that I normally would, I shall now humour everyone by using your logic against you.


Super Buu had absorbed Goten, Trunks, Piccolo, & Gohan. This means that he now had their entire Ki reserves within him.

Super Buu is as powerful as a Super Saiyan 3 as he had no problems beating the merged form of 2 Super Saiyans. I'm in a good mood so I'll be generous to you. I'll say that he was as powerful as a Super Saiyan 2.
Piccolo is as powerful as a Super Saiyan according to you.
Goten and Trunks are both Super Saiyans.
Gohan was in a form more powerful than his Teen Super Saiyan 2 Form, as shown by how he could easily trounce Super Buu, something that Gotenks failed to do until he went into Super Saiyan 3.

Assuming a Super Saiyan 2 is twice as powerful as a Super Saiyan and so on:
When Vegito fought Super Buu, Super Buu was as powerful as EIGHT SUPER SAIYANS MERGED TOGETHER: .

8 Super Saiyans is > 3 Super Saiyans, yet Super Vegito (3 Super Saiyans) was somehow far stronger than Super Buu (8 Super Saiyans). Something is wrong here.

Either your logic is incredibly faulty, or 3 Super Saiyans > 8 Super Saiyans, and therefore, 3 Super Saiyans > 5 Super Saiyans. kruemelmonsteryn0