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The rules and stipulation are typical, both fighting in peak condition...who takes it?

Apoc's versatility could benefit him here, particularly his molecular control over his body. I'd take him here for a slight majority.

Apocalypse will probably end up not using his other powers, thus a win for Val. If he does, then Apoc would get a majority.

Originally posted by cloud102
Apocalypse will probably end up not using his other powers, thus a win for Val. If he does, then Apoc would get a majority.

Seconded.

apoc 10/10

Originally posted by Nihilist
apoc 10/10

i bet apocalypse's altered atomic makeup has no physical flaws kk can pick up. he's not a conventional humanoid and his lack of reliance on organs most likely means his body doesn't have any. (besides lungs to speak, he demonstrated against namor that he can convert to gilled respiration in an instant)

Val can pretty much find flaws in anything, though. Including Interon, which is akin to Marvel's Adimantium. Val has also tagged beings who can be intangible. Like Shadowcat.

Val's MA ability and speed would make the bout interesting, Apoc could be so much more dangerous if he was just written more"competent". Anyhow IMO I think Val takes it but I think it would be a good fight.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Val's MA ability and speed would make the bout interesting, Apoc could be so much more dangerous if he was just written more"competent". Anyhow IMO I think Val takes it but I think it would be a good fight. Using the old Apoc fanboy approach... how incompetent is he?

What are some bad feats to suggest so?

Look lets be honest, we all know Apoc could be operating on a much higher level but like Gladiator,Champion and current thor he usually has shitty runs. As for bad feats...didnt he get owned by mag a little while ago.

That was an alternate universe

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Look lets be honest, we all know Apoc could be operating on a much higher level but like Gladiator,Champion and current thor he usually has shitty runs. As for bad feats...didnt he get owned by mag a little while ago. He actually doesn't.

Alternate reality.

Im not talking about AOA. he was completly owned by mag...something with Mag contorting Apco completly.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Im not talking about AOA. he was completly owned by mag...something with Mag contorting Apco completly.

THAT WAS AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE!

http://shrani.si/?1r/9a/3QvcXM9n/6.png This is the abomination im referring to.

I think Galen is referring to these scans:

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/717761/Civil_War_House_of_M_01_Zone-Megan_pg19.jpg.html

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/717762/Civil_War_House_of_M_01_Zone-Megan_pg20.jpg.html

Originally posted by The Great Galen
http://shrani.si/?1r/9a/3QvcXM9n/6.png This is the abomination im referring to. Originally posted by Harbinger
I think Galen is referring to these scans:

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/717761/Civil_War_House_of_M_01_Zone-Megan_pg19.jpg.html

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/717762/Civil_War_House_of_M_01_Zone-Megan_pg20.jpg.html

...

Jesus

Alternate reality.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
http://shrani.si/?1r/9a/3QvcXM9n/6.png This is the abomination im referring to. How many times do I have to ****ing tell you it was an alternate universe?

That was House Of M: Civil War.

Originally posted by Red Hulk
...

Jesus

Alternate reality. Don't shoot! Just posting the scans, man.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=442042&pagenumber=43#post11312815

lulz.

Do you even read comics, or just run to the respect forum when you don't know what you're talking about?

Originally posted by Mindset
How many times do I have to ****ing tell you it was an alternate universe?

That was House Of M: Civil War.

Originally posted by Cavalier
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=442042&pagenumber=43#post11312815

lulz.

Do you even read comics, or just run to the respect forum when you don't know what you're talking about?

I've noticed that too.

Hey man I stopped reading X-men after AOA, although Apco hasn't really been impressive since then from what I've been told so I havn't missed much.

Originally posted by Mindset
How many times do I have to ****ing tell you it was an alternate universe?

That was House Of M: Civil War.

You didn't even know I was mentioning house of M, thats why I needed to clearify.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
You didn't even know I was mentioning house of M, thats why I needed to clearify. Actually I knew exactly what you meant the first time you mentioned it, since that is the only recent example of Magneto beating him.


fail

Originally posted by The Great Galen
You didn't even know I was mentioning house of M, thats why I needed to clearify. Both of us did though.

I knew exactly what you were talking about, as I'm sure Mindset did as well.

You didn't though.

U guys are just stating that after the fact, u intially thought something else which is why i needed to clearify...don't know whats the big deal in not admitting u didnt know what I was referring to.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
U guys are just stating that after the fact, u intially thought something else which is why i needed to clearify...don't know whats the big deal in not admitting u didnt know what I was referring to. You said a little while ago.

To people who actually read comics, it is evident to what you're talking about.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
U guys are just stating that after the fact, u intially thought something else which is why i needed to clearify...don't know whats the big deal in not admitting u didnt know what I was referring to. Yea Galen, keep telling yourself that.

more fail

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Hey man I stopped reading X-men after AOA, although Apco hasn't really been impressive since then from what I've been told so I havn't missed much. And what have you been told, exactly?

So you're commenting on a character not living up to his potential, and citing recent wins/losses, but admittedly haven't read anything with him in it for the past 12 years?

Age of Apocalypse was 12 years ago?

Man, I feel old.

Apocalypse.

i think it's time to implement the *facepalm*

Originally posted by Cavalier
And what have you been told, exactly?

So you're commenting on a character not living up to his potential, and citing recent wins/losses, but admittedly haven't read anything with him in it for the past 12 years?

First off, mind/red...you guys gotta stop acting with this"elitist"postion on everything. U didnt know what i referring to so...just let it go, it isnt a big deal so why bother with it. As for you, like I said ive been told by friends who do keep up that Apco is currently a joke, he isn't living up to his potential because from the looks of things he seems kind of jobberish.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
First off, mind/red...you guys gotta stop acting with this"elitist"postion on everything. U didnt know what i referring to so...just let it go, it isnt a big deal so why bother with it. As for you, like I said ive been told by friends who do keep up that Apco is currently a joke, he isn't living up to his potential because from the looks of things he seems kind of jobberish. Epic fail.

You're arguing with people who read comics, and trying to tell us things?
On both points.

Also, Apoc has never to my recollection been written as a jobber. Pretty much every low feat has an excuse, and that holds true today.
Although he hasn't appeared much lately besides his role in Bloodlines.

Originally posted by Red Hulk
Epic fail.

You're arguing with people who read comics, and trying to tell us things?
On both points.

Also, Apoc has never to my recollection been written as a jobber. Pretty much every low feat has an excuse, and that holds true today.
Although he hasn't appeared much lately besides his role in Bloodlines.

"People who read comics"lol, anyhow ur honestly trying to say That apoc is in no way shape or form written as a jobber....and u say u read comics.

Well I wont argue with an idiot...at least you know it was an alternate universe.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
"People who read comics"lol, anyhow ur honestly trying to say That apoc is in no way shape or form written as a jobber....and u say u read comics. What are you laughing at? You admitted that you haven't read X-Men since AOA.

Only when he's depowered. The fact that you can't even name a single low feat though says something. And I like how you're using arguments from what 'people tell you' to try and rule out what I'm saying to you.

Originally posted by Mindset
Well I wont argue with an idiot...at least you know it was an alternate universe.

Reported

You don't have to announce it.

I'm crying right now Galen.

Originally posted by Red Hulk
What are you laughing at? You admitted that you haven't read X-Men since AOA.

Only when he's depowered. The fact that you can't even name a single low feat though says something. And I like how you're using arguments from what 'people tell you' to try and rule out what I'm saying to you.


Being owned by Blackbolts whisper doesnt ring a bell?

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Being owned by Blackbolts whisper doesnt ring a bell? Alternate universe?

Im pretty sure it wasn't, oh and im really hoping u finally get banned.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Being owned by Blackbolts whisper doesnt ring a bell?
HOM





Again.

I'm sure you are buddy.


BB owning Apoc was House of M.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
First off, mind/red...you guys gotta stop acting with this"elitist"postion on everything. U didnt know what i referring to so...just let it go, it isnt a big deal so why bother with it. As for you, like I said ive been told by friends who do keep up that Apco is currently a joke, he isn't living up to his potential because from the looks of things he seems kind of jobberish.

When did Apocalypse ever "job" in 616?

Anytime he's face to face with a table

When is the last time Apoc ever had a trully dominating run, honestly aside from AOA when has apco really ever owned. Just because he might have a excuse as to why he loses doesn't neglect the fact that he still isn't as dominating as he could be...so yeah he does job a lot in that sense.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
When is the last time Apoc ever had a trully dominating run, honestly aside from AOA when has apco really ever owned. Just because he might have a excuse as to why he loses doesn't neglect the fact that he still isn't as dominating as he could be...so yeah he does job a lot in that sense. The time he gained reality altering powers.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
When is the last time Apoc ever had a trully dominating run, honestly aside from AOA when has apco really ever owned. Just because he might have a excuse as to why he loses doesn't neglect the fact that he still isn't as dominating as he could be...so yeah he does job a lot in that sense.

Do you know what jobbing actually is?

Now give me some examples of 616 Apocalypse jobbing.

Cable, and now give me a example when he was ever trully all powerful?

Originally posted by Mindset
The time he gained reality altering powers.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Cable, and now give me a example when he was ever trully all powerful?

I never claimed that he should be all powerful, nor is being "all powerful" akin to being written up to his true potential.

When he had harnessed the inhumans' energy he took Black Bolt's scream easily.

Originally posted by Bada's Palin
I never claimed that he should be all powerful, nor is being "all powerful" akin to being written up to his true potential.

When he had harnessed the inhumans' energy he took Black Bolt's scream easily.

It's in apoc's character to be"all powerful"anything short is not living to his true potential. The fact that he is constantly defeated even if there is a explanation doesn't strike me as living to his full potential and thusly he does job.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
It's in apoc's character to be"all powerful"anything short is not living to his true potential. The fact that he is constantly defeated even if there is a explanation doesn't strike me as living to his full potential and thusly he does job.

That's not jobbing, that's not living up to what you think is his potential. Jobbing means taking a dive when you're not supposed to.

How can it be in his "character" to be all powerful when he never has been?

Superman not blitzing every single enemy = not living up to his potential = jobbing.

Supes is such a jobber.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
It's in apoc's character to be"all powerful"anything short is not living to his true potential. The fact that he is constantly defeated even if there is a explanation doesn't strike me as living to his full potential and thusly he does job. What the hell are you talking about?

Lulz.

Originally posted by Bada's Palin
That's not jobbing, that's not living up to what you think is his potential. Jobbing means taking a dive when you're not supposed to.

How can it be in his "character" to be all powerful when he never has been?

He loses because of circumstances in the story, so in essence he loses when he shoudln't which constitutes as jobbing. If he is portrayed accuratly on most occasions he should never lose in the manner he does in most comics.

If it's Apoc on his usual day, Val wins. Val has faced beings far more powerful than Apoc.

Apocalypse kills KK

Originally posted by The Great Galen
He loses because of circumstances in the story, so in essence he loses when he shoudln't which constitutes as jobbing. If he is portrayed accuratly on most occasions he should never lose in the manner he does in most comics. And what manner would that be?

Originally posted by cloud102
If it's Apoc on his usual day, Val wins. Val has faced beings far more powerful than Apoc.

Its 5/5 for me, could go either way.

Originally posted by Mindset
Well I wont argue with an idiot...at least you know it was an alternate universe. Seriously, you need to give it a rest.

lol @ great galen not having a clue what he's trying to lecture people about

Yeah well can Val even hurt Apoc? Apoc takes this either way.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Yeah well can Val even hurt Apoc? Apoc takes this either way. physical attributes aside has he ever shown any resistance to mental powers?

I still can't gauge Apocs tp level but i haven't seen any tp resistance from Pc Val.

Originally posted by iceman24567
I still can't gauge Apocs tp level but i haven't seen any tp resistance from Pc Val. imo apoc's tp lvl would be when he had his original body,when he stalemated loki,high evolutionary, had the upper hand on ikaris and withstood black bolts whisper

Originally posted by The Great Galen
He loses because of circumstances in the story, so in essence he loses when he shoudln't which constitutes as jobbing. If he is portrayed accuratly on most occasions he should never lose in the manner he does in most comics.

Losing because of special circumstances is not jobbing. Apocalypse chose to weaken himself by draining TANKS of his own blood. He was awakened prematurely once as well. These are not incidents where he's jobbing, but examples of him choosing to fight when he's weakened.

I still don't see where this jobbing business is coming from though, the man beat down the x-men in under a minute. Even in the "blood of apocalypse" storyline they needed Pulse to FURTHER weaken him in order to stand a chance.

Originally posted by Nihilist
imo apoc's tp lvl would be when he had his original body,when he stalemated loki,high evolutionary, had the upper hand on ikaris and withstood black bolts whisper

Apocalypse was buffed when he withstood Black Bolt's scream.

PC karate kid was causing PC superboy pain.


So really, one swift punch and apoc should be down, I won't even get into the massive massive speed advantage he has over poccy. Sure, Apocalypse has the potential to be a beast, but he'll never reach a level where he can shrug off hits from someone who caused a PC kryptonian pain, it's just that simple. He can adjust his molecular structure all he wants. Wait..he can't, seeing as he won't have any time to even form a coherent thought before getting tagged.

Remember, even post crisis karate kid is fast enough to dodge heat vision and tear people apart that give supergirl trouble while dying, pc val was dodging speed force charged lightning for christs sake. He also broke inerton, which even PC superboy..you know the guy who tugs dozens of planets around casually? A feat so beyond apocalypse there isn't a mathematical percentage in existence that would show just how much more powerful he is than apoc.. Yeah, PC superboy needed the strength of insanity to break them.

Apoc is nice, but he's out of his league with PC val or really anybody that can make a pc kryptonian take pause.

Originally posted by Bada's Palin
Apocalypse was buffed when he withstood Black Bolt's scream. Apocalypse never withstood Black Bolt's scream...

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Hey man I stopped reading X-men after AOA, although Apco hasn't really been impressive since then from what I've been told so I havn't missed much.

I don't think you were even born when AoA was written.

Considering how powerful blackbolt's scream is, and the normal level of durability apoc shows, even if he did survive it? Put that right in the same category with deathstroke solo'ing the JLA and such.

Meh, Black Bolt has never screamed on panel, in canon material. I highly doubt this is the one instance where he cut loose.

Originally posted by Cavalier
Meh, Black Bolt has never screamed on panel, in canon material. I highly doubt this is the one instance where he cut loose.


True, but when his simple whispers take out people like the hulk..

It was a whisper from the Black Bolt that Apoc took with ease.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Yeah well can Val even hurt Apoc? Apoc takes this either way.

I don't see why not. Val has harmed intangible beings, detected invisible ones, and did damage to Pre-Crisis bricks. Along with tagging super-speedsters in a sparring match.

bada said to give it a rest, and people are still continuing. any more bashing and there'll be warnings and the thread will be closed.

KK should take it IMO.

apoc mind rape for a easy win

Or blitz for Val.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Or blitz for Val. not likely seeing as apoc has tagged quicksilver

And Val has tagged Flash and other ubber speedsters...and not to mention he can fight at superspeed. Although Apoc's h2h should be better then what is portrayed considering his origin.

Originally posted by Nihilist
lol @ great galen not having a clue what he's trying to lecture people about Right after my request....

Nihilist, me asking Mindset to to give it a rest should be heeded by everyone.

I don't think warnings will work and things will need to go to the next level. Anybody want to test me?

Originally posted by The Great Galen
And Val has tagged Flash and other ubber speedsters...and not to mention he can fight at superspeed. Although Apoc's h2h should be better then what is portrayed considering his origin. we know val fast ,you made the point of val blitzing,when apoc cant tag speedsters,you do know apoc can grant himself any superhuman physical attribute he desires.

Technically he can, but nothing to the effect of KK stats from what we have seen.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Technically he can, but nothing to the effect of KK stats from what we have seen. besides that do you think val can resist being mind raped or taken to the astral plane and destroyed

Apoc for the shit-stomp.

Originally posted by Nihilist
besides that do you think val can resist being mind raped or taken to the astral plane and destroyed

Speed is the biggest issue, assuming Val just stands there doing some shadow boxing...then yeah sure I suppose thats possible.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Speed is the biggest issue, assuming Val just stands there doing some shadow boxing...then yeah sure I suppose thats possible. you dont have to be stood still to be taken to the astral plane

Although u do need time to think...something I doubt Val will allow for.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Although u do need time to think...something I doubt Val will allow for. vals not gonna put apoc down with a few punches which would give apoc time to become extremely malleable or change his density allowing him further time needed

apoc

Apocalypse crushes him.

Actually a well delivered strike from Val would probably oneshot him.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Actually a well delivered strike from Val would probably oneshot him. seeing as black bolt/xmen,loki, high e or ikaris couldnt do it..............

Val can detect weakness in almost everything, hes blows can hurt a PC Kryptonian....somehow I doubt Apoc will fair better.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Val can detect weakness in almost everything, hes blows can hurt a PC Kryptonian....somehow I doubt Apoc will fair better. you doubt,not fact

Theres a very good chance a well aimed strike at super speed is all he needs, srry buddy.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Theres a very good chance a well aimed strike at super speed is all he needs, srry buddy. proof of apoc being one shotted ever!!!

How about proof that he can take a shot from someone like Val, verify ur stance for once.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
How about proof that he can take a shot from someone like Val, verify ur stance for once. he took a punch from ikaris the prime eternal and it never ever affected him,also took high e blast and it did nothing to him,as well as black bolts voice doing jack

Ikaris is above KK, and he has been stomped by Apoc.

Yet KK hurt PC supes and pc supes>>>everyone u mentioned.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Yet KK hurt PC supes and pc supes>>>everyone u mentioned. wow pc,pc lex pwned pc supes with a spring and a torch,means jack shit

so that means lex>>supes<<<kk

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Yet KK hurt PC supes and pc supes>>>everyone u mentioned.

Did he win? Was Supes koed? Was he not fighting like an idiot?

Just asking

no

no

yes

Originally posted by Nihilist
wow pc,pc lex pwned pc supes with a spring and a torch,means jack shit

so that means lex>>supes<<<kk

Right so lets just undermine PC supes then, Val oneshots in reality.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Right so lets just undermine PC supes then, Val oneshots in reality. like you've said before. show me apoc getting one shotted by any one/near or around val lvl,please

The issue is Apco has never faced anyone on KK's level, especially Vals combat speed,MA ability or striking power. The only reasonable way for Apco to win is his versatility, Theres a greater chance KK could mount his offensive faster then Apco can react.

I think we can sum up this discussion in:

Originally posted by Bentley
Did he win? Was Supes koed? Was he not fighting like an idiot?

Just asking Originally posted by Mindset
no

no

yes

Actually its a matter of Apoc being able to take the punishment KK can dish out. If Apco can keep pace with Vals speed and roll with his punches...so far there has been nothing to suggest he can.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Actually its a matter of Apoc being able to take the punishment KK can dish out. If Apco can keep pace with Vals speed and roll with his punches...so far there has been nothing to suggest he can.


Lets see... Apocalypse enduring attacks from Ikaris, check.

Both starting at 500 meters of each other due to regular settings, check.

Val not ever actually beating any real top tier, check.

Originally posted by Bentley
Lets see... Apocalypse enduring attacks from Ikaris, check.

Both starting at 500 meters of each other due to regular settings, check.

Val not ever actually beating any real top tier, check.

Let's see, combat speed that can tag flash, check.

Val physically injuring PC supes and other top tiers, check.

Vals immense MA advantage, check.

Apoc never reacting to a blitz or fighting someone with Vals MA skills, check.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Let's see, combat speed that can tag flash, check.

Val physically injuring PC supes and other top tiers, check.

Vals immense MA advantage, check.

Apoc never reacting to a blitz or fighting someone with Vals MA skills, check. so he can run 500 mt flash speed before apoc can move

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Let's see, combat speed that can tag flash, check.


Deathstroke has tagged Flash. He wouldn't have a chance in hell against Apoc.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Val physically injuring PC supes and other top tiers, check.


Did he win? How hurt were they? Val has yet to win a single battle against a decent top tier.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Vals immense MA advantage, check.


Apocalypse immense molecular transmutation advantage. See what I did there?

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Apoc never reacting to a blitz or fighting someone with Vals MA skills, check.


First of all, there are not such things are "fighting someone with Val's MA skill" he is a freak. Not that it matters, how many people have put down Apoc physically?

lulz

Originally posted by Bentley
Deathstroke has tagged Flash. He wouldn't have a chance in hell against Apoc.



Did he win? How hurt were they? Val has yet to win a single battle against a decent top tier.



Apocalypse immense molecular transmutation advantage. See what I did there?



First of all, there are not such things are "fighting someone with Val's MA skill" he is a freak. Not that it matters, how many people have put down Apoc physically?

So u just compared deathstroke to Val, how many people have physically dominated Val by that same token.

I just compared Val's feat to Deathstroke to prove tagging Flash doesn't mean speedblitzing people left and right, which is your claim.

Apocalypse doesn't need to own KK physically, he has plenty of options, Val is the one who is a one dimensional brick.

Originally posted by Surtur
PC karate kid was causing PC superboy pain.


So really, one swift punch and apoc should be down, I won't even get into the massive massive speed advantage he has over poccy. Sure, Apocalypse has the potential to be a beast, but he'll never reach a level where he can shrug off hits from someone who caused a PC kryptonian pain, it's just that simple. He can adjust his molecular structure all he wants. Wait..he can't, seeing as he won't have any time to even form a coherent thought before getting tagged.

Remember, even post crisis karate kid is fast enough to dodge heat vision and tear people apart that give supergirl trouble while dying, pc val was dodging speed force charged lightning for christs sake. He also broke inerton, which even PC superboy..you know the guy who tugs dozens of planets around casually? A feat so beyond apocalypse there isn't a mathematical percentage in existence that would show just how much more powerful he is than apoc.. Yeah, PC superboy needed the strength of insanity to break them.

Apoc is nice, but he's out of his league with PC val or really anybody that can make a pc kryptonian take pause.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37...apocmorph3.png

^ a fist would also pass easily through him, or he could just turn into a more maluable form.

Right. Hurting PC Supes is fine and all, but PC Supes can't alter his molecular structure to become exponentially more dense, or completely intangible. Starting from 500 m away, Val shouldn't have a chance in hell. He's got H2H speed, not bullrush superspeed.

Originally posted by Bentley
I just compared Val's feat to Deathstroke to prove tagging Flash doesn't mean speedblitzing people left and right, which is your claim.

Apocalypse doesn't need to own KK physically, he has plenty of options, Val is the one who is a one dimensional brick.

Brick, right because Val's h2h speed is roughly equal to Thing and Hulk or SS. Val's physical strike is enough to shatter the Emerald Eye of Ekron which PC supes,Ultra Boy and mon-el all failed to do...and those 3 are >>>>>>>>Apco by the way. So thinking Val's punches won't be able to "take out Apoc phyiscally"is just....well is just foolish. http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/SLSH-198-15.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/silicondream/Adventure378-19.jpg

While weakened dodges Validus mental bolt which even Mon-El couldn't do. So to say he is a brick is a rather poor argument, Apco is over when Val connects a single blow.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Right. Hurting PC Supes is fine and all, but PC Supes can't alter his molecular structure to become exponentially more dense, or completely intangible. Starting from 500 m away, Val shouldn't have a chance in hell. He's got H2H speed, not bullrush superspeed.

Right, PC supes can't alter his molecular structure...he can only take a blast equal to magnetic force of several galaxies. Val could always stomp his feet and localize the impact to where Apoc is standing.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37...apocmorph3.png

^ a fist would also pass easily through him, or he could just turn into a more maluable form.

I made a mistake, technically PC KK and current KK are the same person.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
I made a mistake, technically PC KK and current KK are the same person. whatever, he still gets mind blasted into an invalid.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Right, PC supes can't alter his molecular structure...he can only take a blast equal to magnetic force of several galaxies.

Supes has never done so. What you're referring to, Supes had already been hit by Magor's blast and was flying away when he threatened to hit him with the force of a hundred galaxies. There's no proof that the blast which sent him flying was in fact that blast.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Right, PC supes can't alter his molecular structure...he can only take a blast equal to magnetic force of several galaxies. Val could always stomp his feet and localize the impact to where Apoc is standing.
Do you have a scan of him actually hurting PC Supes? Because the only encounter I can think of wasn't even between KK and PC Superman, it was between KK and PC SuperBOY. And from what I remember, he didn't actually hurt him he just used SB's momentum to throw him up against the wall or something like that...

Apocalypse tagged Quicksilver D:

He's not the flash, still a speedster.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Brick, right because Val's h2h speed is roughly equal to Thing and Hulk or SS.

Is that SS supposed to be Silver Surfer? I really hope not.

Its good to know that Val can break things that are standing there not defending themselves at all and that have defined forms. Any martial artist will tell you how such moves differ greatly from those employed in fights.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Supes has never done so. What you're referring to, Supes had already been hit by Magor's blast and was flying away when he threatened to hit him with the force of a hundred galaxies. There's no proof that the blast which sent him flying was in fact that blast.

umm....wow thats all I can say.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
umm....wow thats all I can say.

I left you speechless? Ha! Now you know what it feels like, forcing all of us to debate intelligently while looking at your sigs and avy.

Originally posted by Bentley
Is that SS supposed to be Silver Surfer? I really hope not.

Its good to know that Val can break things that are standing there not defending themselves at all and that have defined forms. Any martial artist will tell you how such moves differ greatly from those employed in fights.

...its a indicator to his stiking power oh and yes I did refer to SS who has brick level speed in terms of h2h. The mere fact that KK has been able to "hang"and even injury PC kryptonians is a testament to his physical ability.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I left you speechless? Ha! Now you know what it feels like, forcing all of us to debate intelligently while looking at your sigs and avy.

I was gonna go for some semi-nude ones but damn, all the models had the outfits wrong.

Originally posted by Nihilist
so he can run 500 mt flash speed before apoc can move
that,s the starting distance for any forum fight,so?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Do you have a scan of him actually hurting PC Supes? Because the only encounter I can think of wasn't even between KK and PC Superman, it was between KK and PC SuperBOY. And from what I remember, he didn't actually hurt him he just used SB's momentum to throw him up against the wall or something like that...

Zero Hour, Val made a super-durable, super strong being from another gravity cough up blood. Plus DESTROYING Interon. A indestructable metal. Val can find weaknesses in anything.

Originally posted by Nihilist
so he can run 500 mt flash speed before apoc can move

I'll give you another Karate Kid feat. Just so you know how formidable he is. Val has dodged LIGHTNING AFTER he was hit from it.

Val has wrestled with a Pre-Crisis DAXAMITE and KRYPTONIAN before Apoc was even created. BEINGS far STRONGER and FASTER than Apoc.

Val has rejected TELEPATHIC assualts from Saturn Girl. Someone far more advanced than Apoc in the TP area. And Saturn Girl is hailed from a planet of advanced telepaths. She's the greatest in her moon.

How do you dodge something after it has already hit you?

Also not sure if Saturn Girl is stronger tp than Apoc, isn't Apoc at least as strong as Xavier?

Originally posted by Mindset
How do you dodge something after it has already hit you?

Also not sure if Saturn Girl is stronger tp than Apoc, isn't Apoc at least as strong as Xavier?

I have no clue on how he did. Basically Pre-Crisis Karate Kid is almost unbeatable. I know this all sounds stupid, but the only real beating he had was Nemesis Kid. But he had the power to defeat any single opponent, so...

And Saturn Girl is on Xavier's level. Probing the universe for life forms is pretty up there. But this may be a Zero Hour feat, not sure.

And thinking about this fight again, I'm giving Val the majority.

Someone who can go toe to toe with the FATAL FIVE BY HIMSELF will get my vote. And yes, this includes VALIDUS. Who would crush Apoc, IMO. Val fled, but he did pretty good for a while.

Val also defeated an ENTIRE PRISON of the universes most powerful criminals. All by his lonesome.

Yes, Val is THAT good.

Originally posted by cloud102
I'll give you another Karate Kid feat. Just so you know how formidable he is. Val has dodged LIGHTNING AFTER he was hit from it.

Val has wrestled with a Pre-Crisis DAXAMITE and KRYPTONIAN before Apoc was even created. BEINGS far STRONGER and FASTER than Apoc.

Val has rejected TELEPATHIC assualts from Saturn Girl. Someone far more advanced than Apoc in the TP area. And Saturn Girl is hailed from a planet of advanced telepaths. She's the greatest in her moon.

I think Val was weakened by something else but with his remaining strenght dodged the lighting.

Originally posted by cloud102
I have no clue on how he did. Basically Pre-Crisis Karate Kid is almost unbeatable. I know this all sounds stupid, but the only real beating he had was Nemesis Kid. But he had the power to defeat any single opponent, so...

And Saturn Girl is on Xavier's level. Probing the universe for life forms is pretty up there. But this may be a Zero Hour feat, not sure.

And thinking about this fight again, I'm giving Val the majority.

Someone who can go toe to toe with the FATAL FIVE BY HIMSELF will get my vote. And yes, this includes VALIDUS. Who would crush Apoc, IMO. Val fled, but he did pretty good for a while.

Val also defeated an ENTIRE PRISON of the universes most powerful criminals. All by his lonesome.

Yes, Val is THAT good. apoc at his peak showed virtualy no physical weakness

Originally posted by Bentley Deathstroke has tagged Flash. He wouldn't have a chance in hell against Apoc.

The difference is Val normally operates at a much higher level than Deathstroke. He actually has other feats showing vastly high reflexes and movement speed, Deathstroke overall hasn't shown to be anywhere near flash fast, pc Val has.




He fought Superboy more than once. The first time Superboy sort of didn't take it seriously and Val did well. However, the second time he was actually trying and still Val was able to keep up with his speed, and actually hurt him. Did Val win? No, it was clear Superboy was more powerful, but the point is Val kept up with his speed, and actually hurt him. These are the same beings who tug around planets and yet can pound on each other all day without even a bruise.

Val has yet to win against a decent top tier? post crisis Val has taken down Mon'el, and recently while dying owned someone, literally tore them apart..this same creature was giving Supergirl problems.

He's done stuff like save a city from an earthquake by tapping his foot on the ground. He can do a lot of funky stuff.




This takes time, the fact that Val is much faster and I doubt Apoc can even pull this after he's been hit even once.



Apocalypse, during his overall career, has been hurt consistency by all manner of things which are incapable of delivering the type of force needed to hurt pc Superboy. It's safe to say Val can hurt him. Val will most likely wind up accidently punching his head off.

Originally posted by Surtur
The difference is Val normally operates at a much higher level than Deathstroke. He actually has other feats showing vastly high reflexes and movement speed, Deathstroke overall hasn't shown to be anywhere near flash fast, pc Val has.




He fought Superboy more than once. The first time Superboy sort of didn't take it seriously and Val did well. However, the second time he was actually trying and still Val was able to keep up with his speed, and actually hurt him. Did Val win? No, it was clear Superboy was more powerful, but the point is Val kept up with his speed, and actually hurt him. These are the same beings who tug around planets and yet can pound on each other all day without even a bruise.

Val has yet to win against a decent top tier? post crisis Val has taken down Mon'el, and recently while dying owned someone, literally tore them apart..this same creature was giving Supergirl problems.

He's done stuff like save a city from an earthquake by tapping his foot on the ground. He can do a lot of funky stuff.




This takes time, the fact that Val is much faster and I doubt Apoc can even pull this after he's been hit even once.



Apocalypse, during his overall career, has been hurt consistency by all manner of things which are incapable of delivering the type of force needed to hurt pc Superboy. It's safe to say Val can hurt him. Val will most likely wind up accidently punching his head off. the thread strter stated both combatents are at thier peak.
peak apoc was his original body,as for punching his head off he can remove his head a still function great,also he can reform from being dissloved into a puddle of liquid.theres not a lot val can do to him.

Originally posted by Nihilist
the thread strter stated both combatents are at thier peak.
peak apoc was his original body,as for punching his head off he can remove his head a still function great,also he can reform from being dissloved into a puddle of liquid.theres not a lot val can do to him.

Even at his peak, Apoc can't just shrug off punches from someone of Val's power. If Apoc reforms, Val is fast enough to simply hit him again before he can use his powers to do anything else. So I guess this would continue until Val passes out from exhaustion. That is one way for Apocalypse to achieve victory.

Originally posted by Surtur
Even at his peak, Apoc can't just shrug off punches from someone of Val's power. If Apoc reforms, Val is fast enough to simply hit him again before he can use his powers to do anything else. So I guess this would continue until Val passes out from exhaustion. That is one way for Apocalypse to achieve victory. he laughed off punches from ikaris and black bolts scream and high e's blast.they all had no effect on him.

Originally posted by Nihilist
he laughed off punches from ikaris and black bolts scream and high e's blast.they all had no effect on him.

Ikaris, while powerful, isn't pc Superboy level tho.

As for Blackbolt, didn't he survive a whisper, not a full scream? Simply because a full scream would take out the planet, so I'm doubting he used a full scream. Otherwise it honestly doesn't make sense for him to survive a full on scream, even a this peak he hasn't shown to be that durable.

BB has never screamed on-panel.

Originally posted by Surtur
Ikaris, while powerful, isn't pc Superboy level tho.

As for Blackbolt, didn't he survive a whisper, not a full scream? Simply because a full scream would take out the planet, so I'm doubting he used a full scream. it was a scream,obvisouly not a full one,what about high e blast?

you think val punches harder than ikaris?