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People think Jiraiya can win, but i don't.

It has already been said by Itachi himself that both would die and be a tie. If I had to choose someone, Jiraiya. Itachi does have strength, but dealing with all of his Rasengans, Hermit mode, and all of his toads, fire style, and earth style attacks, difficult for even Itachi. You know what, I will just throw it out there. Jiraiya Earth Style- Dark Swamp's Itachi.

Itachi never said that about Jiraiya, thats a huge misconception.


I can easily just say Itachi Amaterasu' Jiraiya dead.

Itachi Made alot of lies. Him dying at the hands of Jiraya is BS. He was BS Kisame so they wouldnt get into an actual confrentation with him ending up with Jiraya dead and konoha weaken. It was a lie. Itachi life has been focused on making his little brother stronger and guess what. PROTECTING KONOHA. Killing their top shinobi isnt going to help that goal

But Itachi never even said anything about not being able to defeat Jiraiya in the first place, the only thing he said about Jiraiya was that he was one of the sannin and that all strong people have a weakness, thats it.

Originally posted by Csdabest
Itachi Made alot of lies. Him dying at the hands of Jiraya is BS. He was BS Kisame so they wouldnt get into an actual confrentation with him ending up with Jiraya dead and konoha weaken. It was a lie. Itachi life has been focused on making his little brother stronger and guess what. PROTECTING KONOHA. Killing their top shinobi isnt going to help that goal not saying that itachi would win but i do agree with this.

Can someone post the mistranslation from the anime of Itachi, "claiming" he will lose to Jiraiya (which he didn't but find me it anyway)

But im not saying That it wouldnt be one hell of a match. Just Itachi main weakness is his stamina. While Jiraya is genjutsu which Itachi is a master of. And stamina wont really come into play until near the end of the battle. But it will be a close mtach if Itachi doesnt catch Jiraya with Genjutsu early on in the battle

Originally posted by Wil7
It has already been said by Itachi himself that both would die and be a tie. If I had to choose someone, Jiraiya. Itachi does have strength, but dealing with all of his Rasengans, Hermit mode, and all of his toads, fire style, and earth style attacks, difficult for even Itachi. You know what, I will just throw it out there. Jiraiya Earth Style- Dark Swamp's Itachi.

all itachi said is that the battle would be unneccesary he didnt say he would lose

Originally posted by Terryc250
Can someone post the mistranslation from the anime of Itachi, "claiming" he will lose to Jiraiya (which he didn't but find me it anyway) Dub:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNkUhUyS96c
0:46 - 1:29

Sub:
http://narutovideoseries.com/naruto-episode-83-jiraiya-narutos-potential-disaster/
08:48 - 09:34

Originally posted by Pyron_Express
Dub:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNkUhUyS96c
0:46 - 1:29

Sub:
http://narutovideoseries.com/naruto-episode-83-jiraiya-narutos-potential-disaster/
08:48 - 09:34

Going by proper speech, him/his/he are all referring to the same person until the topic changes correct?

Now obviously the scene cuts into them in the middle of a conversation, we don't know who "he" is exactly, but we can guess, so i'll put the person they're referring to in RED, and the second person in BLUE.

Red is one person, Blue is another person.

Kisame: Perhaps you can fight him evenly... but I cannot. He's too strong.
Itachi: Yes. If we both fought him, we would both be killed... or in a good case, we might kill him , but we'd die along with him (does this scenario sound familar? A sacrifice to kill something) . Even if we had more men, that result would not change.
Kisame: His caretaker is a legendary Sannin . Konoha's Uchiha Clan and the Mist's Seven Shinobi-gatana seem petty before his name.
Itachi: Yes, but... All strong opponents have a weakness.

Blue is obviously referring to Jiraiya, but my guess is that RED is referring to the Kyuubi Bijuu, thats why they said they would probably both be killed, or they could kill it but by sacrificing themselves with it, then they say "his" caretaker is a legendary sannin which is true. There is no way they were referring to Jiraiya in the first part of the speech, unless they say Jiraiya's caretaker is a legendary sannin which makes no sense at all.

That seems contradictory but also makes sense.

Naruto was going kyuubi but Kisame stopped it with the sameheda.

Maybe they were discussing a fight against a full unleashed Kyuubi, if that scenario were to happen

A fully unleashed Kyuubi is a nigh impossibility.

And Kisame can eat the Kyuubi chakra with his sword. They would have nothing to fear from it.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Itachi never said that about Jiraiya, thats a huge misconception.

Uh, yeah, he actually did say it. I have posted the quote from Itachi several times. Here we go again:


"Yeah, if we faced each other, both of us would be killed, a rather unappealing outcome. Even if there were more of us, the results would remain the same." -Itachi, talking to Kisame about Jiraiya.


Originally posted by Terryc250
I can easily just say Itachi Amaterasu' Jiraiya dead.

I can easily say Earth Style-Dark Swamp, Gamabunta, Fire Style-Toad Flame Bomb, etc.

Amaterasu has been avoided, so Jiraiya can avoid it.

Here is how it will go if Jiraiya was going to win. Jiraiya makes him use Amaterasu by getting him stuck in Toad Mouth Trap numerous times, and Itachi will have to use Amaterasu to get out. Itachi can't use MS an unlimited amount of times, it has shown he needs to recharge his powers after using MS twice, although he can probably use it 3 times now. Jiraiya then summons Gamabunta, and they use toad flame bomb. Now when I think about it, I don't see Itachi winning. Jiraiya also has Hermit Mode, so he can strengthen his jutsu's.

Jiraiya 7/10

Originally posted by Wil7
Uh, yeah, he actually did say it. I have posted the quote from Itachi several times. Here we go again:
Umm, where does it say Jiraiya's name there? No where.

I posted the direct direct translation from the actual series, and baby fed it for you to understand.

Kisame: Perhaps you can fight him evenly... but I cannot. He's too strong.
Itachi: Yes. If we both fought him, we would both be killed... or in a good case, we might kill him , but we'd die along with him (does this scenario sound familar? A sacrifice to kill something) . Even if we had more men, that result would not change.
Kisame: His caretaker is a legendary Sannin . Konoha's Uchiha Clan and the Mist's Seven Shinobi-gatana seem petty before his name.
Itachi: Yes, but... All strong opponents have a weakness.

Blue and Red are 2 different people, RED is NOT Jiraiya.



Wtf is "Dark Swamp" ? You mean Swap of the underworld?

Toad Flame Bomb?? Never heard of such thing.

Naming a bunch of jutsus does not mean he'll win, I can say Susanoo (which has killed a Sannin at Jiraiya's level in seconds)

First of all, mangekyou is faster then Jiraiya's handseals jutsus, second of all Itachi's handseals have been numorously times notable for its insane speed, Jiraiya's hasn't, if anyone were to get a jutsu off first, it would be Itachi, not Jiraiya. Itachi won't just be standing there.

Itachi has used his mangekyou 3 times while he was diseased and gave his power away, Itachi at full power and healthy would beable to use it more then that.

Tsukiyomi has only been avoided if the other person closed their eyes, if the person has their eyes closed, Itachi could easily use his other eye and turn that person into ashes with amaterasu.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Umm, where does it say Jiraiya's name there? No where.

I posted the direct direct translation from the actual series, and baby fed it for you to understand.

Kisame: Perhaps you can fight him evenly... but I cannot. He's too strong.
Itachi: Yes. If we both fought him, we would both be killed... or in a good case, we might kill him , but we'd die along with him (does this scenario sound familar? A sacrifice to kill something) . Even if we had more men, that result would not change.
Kisame: His caretaker is a legendary Sannin . Konoha's Uchiha Clan and the Mist's Seven Shinobi-gatana seem petty before his name.
Itachi: Yes, but... All strong opponents have a weakness.

Blue and Red are 2 different people, RED is NOT Jiraiya.



Wtf is "Dark Swamp" ? You mean Swap of the underworld?

Toad Flame Bomb?? Never heard of such thing.

Naming a bunch of jutsus does not mean he'll win, I can say Susanoo (which has killed a Sannin at Jiraiya's level in seconds)

First of all, mangekyou is faster then Jiraiya's handseals jutsus, second of all Itachi's handseals have been numorously times notable for its insane speed, Jiraiya's hasn't, if anyone were to get a jutsu off first, it would be Itachi, not Jiraiya. Itachi won't just be standing there.

Itachi has used his mangekyou 3 times while he was diseased and gave his power away, Itachi at full power and healthy would beable to use it more then that.

Tsukiyomi has only been avoided if the other person closed their eyes, if the person has their eyes closed, Itachi could easily use his other eye and turn that person into ashes with amaterasu.

Who do you think he was talking about? Naruto, , you're good. Who else would they be talking about, when the only one around him is Jiraiya.

" I'm pretty certain you can go toe to toe with him, but I'm not sure I could. He's at a whole differnt level."

"Yeah, if we faced each other, both of us would be killed, a rather unappealing outcome. Even if there were more of us, the results would remain the same."

"Never thought I would have to go up against one of the legendary sannin. If we fight him, then both the Uchiha clan, and the 7 swordsmen of the mist will have there names dragged through the mud."

"True, but still...even the strongest of opponents, always has a weakness."

This is the english anime version that I recorded during the Naruto Hando. That is what they really say. Hate to tell you, but you are not winning this part of the debate.

Anime names shit differently. I call it Dark Swamp. Deal with it .

You must have not seen Oro vs Jiraiya and Tsunade then, because he does it in the anime, and I thought he even did it in the manga as well.

It has been avoided if you don't look in the eyes, as Gai, Kakashi, Sakura, Chiyo, and Naruto were clearly not looking in his eyes. And they won't just be standing there, asking to get hit.

Originally posted by Wil7
Who do you think he was talking about? Naruto, , you're good. Who else would they be talking about, when the only one around him is Jiraiya.
Nine-tails? Duh. Why would they call Jiraiya's caretaker a legendary sannin? Jiraiya doesn't have a caretaker.


Wow, i thought only 12 year olds watch the dub garbage. Both the original anime, and the manga hold more credibility then the dub garbage.

DUB GARBAGE

Dub garbage still isn't talking about Jiraiya.

Original Version(holds more weight)

Obviously not talking about Jiraiya here in the original version

Manga version(holds most weight)
http://www.mangafox.com/page/manga/read/8/naruto/chapter.15729/page.8/

Clearly its not Jiraiya


Yeah there's the real version and theres the garbage version re-made for little kids. Jee no wonder you lack knowledge on just about everything, you are one of those kids who watch the dubs.

I saw that scene, when you were literally only about 7 years old, no joke . Jiraiya uses Toad Oil Flame Bullet, not some flame bomb.

First of all Itachi didn't use mangekyou sharingan in that fight, and as it has been shown, Itachi can cast genjutsu from different parts of his body, Jiraiya would literally have to not look at him at all.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
A fully unleashed Kyuubi is a nigh impossibility.

And Kisame can eat the Kyuubi chakra with his sword. They would have nothing to fear from it.
You really think Kisame can fight Kyuubi Bijuu one on one and absorb all his chakra? Just Kyuubi's tail alone shattered mountains, and created Tsunamis. If we go by that logic, Kisame can beat everyone by just absorbing their chakra.

The only clear thing about the manga is that Kisame says Jiraiya is a match for the Leaf's number one and one of the seven strongest in the Mist. He also doesn't say it like he means individually either. And Itachi doesn't exactly disagree about Jiraiya being that powerful.

It seems strange for Itachi to be talking about Naruto, and somebody in the first half because he says kill both of them. Since they are after Naruto to capture him. Alive.

And casting genjutsu with one finger doesn't suddenly mean he can do it with every other part of his body. Also Jiraiya won't really be looking at him anyway. He fights with summons, and uses attacks that are wide-spread. Jiraya's talk with Kakashi, and his travels learning thing I'm sure he also knows a lot about the sharingan having to worry about Itachi attacking him. You don't think he'd sit there and let himself be caught in a genjutsu do you? Not when he has attacks that devistate large areas and huge summons to help him out.

I didn't say they were talking about Naruto, i said the Bijuu itself, hence why they would have to sacrifice themselves to take it down.

The second time he caught Naruto, he didn't use a single finger yet Naruto was caught in the genjutsu.

Sharingan can control summons, as shown when Sasuke controlled Manda which is atleast as powerful as Jiraiyas most powerful summon, maybe even more powerful. Itachi has even more powerful eyes then Sasuke.

His travels don't mean a thing when there are only 2 sharingan users left, the obvious way to fight a sharingan user is to not look in his eyes, but that doesn't mean it will help him escape the rest of Itachi's genjutsu, and once he's caught, Itachi can easily apply Tsukiyomi as Jiraiya struggles to break out of genjutsu. Plus, genjutsu is Jiraiya's most weak point, he would have some trouble escaping one of Itachi's genjutsu, which would give Itachi time to apply Tsukiyomi.

Jiraiyas normal jutsu would have some trouble against Itachi, since sharingan reads, predicts, copies, ninjutsu, genjutsu and is capable of defeating them, Itachi will know each jutsu and counter accordingly.

If worse comes to worse Itachi could use Susanoo and basically none of Jiraiyas attacks would be effective anymore, Susanoo already has a feat of taking out a Sannin at close to Jiraiyas level in mere seconds.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Nine-tails? Duh. Why would they call Jiraiya's caretaker a legendary sannin? Jiraiya doesn't have a caretaker.


Wow, i thought only 12 year olds watch the dub garbage. Both the original anime, and the manga hold more credibility then the dub garbage.

DUB GARBAGE

Dub garbage still isn't talking about Jiraiya.

Original Version(holds more weight)

Obviously not talking about Jiraiya here in the original version

Manga version(holds most weight)
http://www.mangafox.com/page/manga/read/8/naruto/chapter.15729/page.8/

Clearly its not Jiraiya


Yeah there's the real version and theres the garbage version re-made for little kids. Jee no wonder you lack knowledge on just about everything, you are one of those kids who watch the dubs.

I saw that scene, when you were literally only about 7 years old, no joke . Jiraiya uses Toad Oil Flame Bullet, not some flame bomb.

First of all Itachi didn't use mangekyou sharingan in that fight, and as it has been shown, Itachi can cast genjutsu from different parts of his body, Jiraiya would literally have to not look at him at all.

Why the heck would Kisame say the nine tailed fox? They were talking about Jiraiya, not Kyuubi. We asume that it is Jiraiya, not Kyuubi, what a joke.

I know people older than you who still watch and play Naruto, so shut the hell up.

In the original, and in the current they are talking about Jiraiya. The original was translated from the japaneese version, and this is what it is in the REAL english version.

Original is the exact same thing as the current, just with different wording.

Dude, they are talking about Jiraiya. Why in the world would they actually take on Kyuubi, when Naruto can't even do Kyuubi's full powers, and all he has is an aura? Clearly it IS Jiraiya.

It doesn't matter how old someone is when you watch a scene, because I am a better debater than you are and look how old I am.

I name stuff differently, so shut the heck up.

Nonsensai Klown is right about you. You are a persistant jackass.

Originally posted by Wil7
Why the heck would Kisame say the nine tailed fox? They were talking about Jiraiya, not Kyuubi. We asume that it is Jiraiya, not Kyuubi, what a joke.
Assume? Uhh do you understand propar grammar and speech? I broke it down so that even a 5 year old should be able to understand. Pay attention.


It really doesn't matter since i've been following Naruto since before it was even turned into an anime, you on the other hand have most likely just started watching it when it appeared on your TV screen as the dub garbage.


Again, do you understand proper speech and grammar? There is NO WAY they can be talking about Jiraiya, they are referring to him/he/his, then they him/he/his caretaker is a legendary sannin, the 2 cannot be the same person, unless they say Jiraiya's caretaker is a legendary sannin which makes zero sense. The original is a direct translation from the original version, the dub garbage does a half-ass translation and adds in BS that makes no sense at all.


Current? You mean the dub garbage? Again, they do a half-ass job of translating and half the time they don't even focus on translating it properly and just say corny shit to match how the mouths are moving, and add in crap that makes no sense the they actual storyline.


No, they are not "clearly" talking about Jiraiya, it can be ANYONE BUT Jiraiya, do you not understand proper english? Read this and try to comprehend it, RED and BLUE CANNOT be the same person, his/he/him are referring to ONE person, then they go on and say his(the same person as before) caretaker is a legendary sannin which is referring to someone else(jiraiya)

Kisame: Perhaps you can fight him evenly... but I cannot. He's too strong.
Itachi: Yes. If we both fought him, we would both be killed... or in a good case, we might kill him , but we'd die along with him (does this scenario sound familar? A sacrifice to kill something) . Even if we had more men, that result would not change.
Kisame: His caretaker is a legendary Sannin . Konoha's Uchiha Clan and the Mist's Seven Shinobi-gatana seem petty before his name.
Itachi: Yes, but... All strong opponents have a weakness.

RED and BLUE CANNOT be referring to the exact same people.

If they are talking about Jiraiya, it would make no sense, it they would be saying this:


Kisame: Perhaps you can fight JIRAIYA evenly... but I cannot. JIRAIYA's too strong.
Itachi: Yes. If we both fought JIRAIYA, we would both be killed... or in a good case, we might kill JIRAIYA , but we'd die along with JIRAIYA. Even if we had more men, that result would not change.
Kisame: JIRAIYA'S caretaker is a legendary Sannin . Konoha's Uchiha Clan and the Mist's Seven Shinobi-gatana seem petty before JIRAIYA's name.
Itachi: Yes, but... All strong opponents have a weakness.

Wait a minute.. Jiraiya's caretaker is a legendary sannin? That makes NO SENSE, so OBVIOUSLY Red wasn't referring to Jiraiya


All i got to say for this is.....LOL

Your debating skills with "Dude man its Jiraiya, Dude man its Jiraiya" are very impressive, now how about some evidence?

Yeah well I go by the proper name.

Cool, you want a cookie? Or a poster of him to put up on your wall now?

Here is the original Magna

oh and terry is right you cant use naruto eng dub as an arguement. The eng dub tweaks the dialogue a little diffrently.

Originally posted by Terryc250
I didn't say they were talking about Naruto, i said the Bijuu itself, hence why they would have to sacrifice themselves to take it down.

The second time he caught Naruto, he didn't use a single finger yet Naruto was caught in the genjutsu.

Sharingan can control summons, as shown when Sasuke controlled Manda which is atleast as powerful as Jiraiyas most powerful summon, maybe even more powerful. Itachi has even more powerful eyes then Sasuke.

His travels don't mean a thing when there are only 2 sharingan users left, the obvious way to fight a sharingan user is to not look in his eyes, but that doesn't mean it will help him escape the rest of Itachi's genjutsu, and once he's caught, Itachi can easily apply Tsukiyomi as Jiraiya struggles to break out of genjutsu. Plus, genjutsu is Jiraiya's most weak point, he would have some trouble escaping one of Itachi's genjutsu, which would give Itachi time to apply Tsukiyomi.

Jiraiyas normal jutsu would have some trouble against Itachi, since sharingan reads, predicts, copies, ninjutsu, genjutsu and is capable of defeating them, Itachi will know each jutsu and counter accordingly.

If worse comes to worse Itachi could use Susanoo and basically none of Jiraiyas attacks would be effective anymore, Susanoo already has a feat of taking out a Sannin at close to Jiraiyas level in mere seconds.

Itachi was talking about killing two people before their numbers could increase. Then Kisame talks about Naruto and Jiraiya. Whoever Itachi was talking about first, and about killing now seems odd to be Naruto. And it sure wasn't Kyuubi because he can't attack and kill Kyuubi or Naruto as they need to capture him alive.

Naruto was looking right at him the second time. If you're talking about before Itachi goes and lets Sasuke kill him.

Sasuke's eyes have been likened to Madara so who says Itachi, who was never said to have eyes like Madara, could control summons. Not to mention Sasuke had the time to do it as Manda wasn't attacking him fire attacks that have a wide range of effect.

He knew Itachi was going to come after Naruto sooner or later, and has a sharingan. You don't think somebody who gets a lot of information anyway wouldn't get some bit of knowledge from Kakashi?

Casting genjutsu is Jiraiya's weak point. Just because he doesn't use it doesn't mean he can't dispel it. He's much better at controlling his chakra than Naruto is, and he is the one who taught Naruto how to do it. Naruto being unable to do it is because of his bad chakra control.

A lot of Jiraiya's attacks effect a large area. His fire attacks with the toads, and swamp of the underworld. His only real close up attack is Rasengan.

A Sannin who was arrogant enough not to dodge it. Jiraiya isn't going to sit and take attacks like Orochimaru. Also Jiraiya isn't a Uchiha whipping boy like Oro is. And if Jiraiya gets HM Susanoo isn't going to stop the frogs sleeping genjutsu from getting through as it's sound based not physical. And if Susanoo is used it just becomes a waiting game. All Jiraiya has to do is survive.

Originally posted by Kento
Itachi was talking about killing two people before their numbers could increase. Then Kisame talks about Naruto and Jiraiya. Whoever Itachi was talking about first, and about killing now seems odd to be Naruto. And it sure wasn't Kyuubi because he can't attack and kill Kyuubi or Naruto as they need to capture him alive.
There's no real evidence about who they were talking about, but the evidence shows it definately was not Jiraiya, and thats my point.


Yeah, Itachi didn't need a finger or anything, basically just looking at him can catch a person in genjutsu.


That makes no sense, Sharingan is Sharingan, Itachi's blood is Sasuke's blood, in the Databook it states "Sharingan" it doesn't say its Sasuke's special ability

The ultimate power of the "Sharingan", that once could tame even the "Kyuubi". A portion of it is visible in Sasuke when he is able to control Manda.

Its the power of the SHARINGAN.


He didn't know it was specifically Itachi, like ive stated before, Jiraiya knows Akatsuki's motives, and he suspects the akatsuki will come after Naruto's bijuu. Knowledge to not look into Itachi's eyes, but if he looks at Itachi he can still be caught in genjutsu, and while he's caught in Genjutsu Itachi can easily apply Tsukiyomi.


Jiraiya is basically in terms the same as Naruto but older and more experienced, if Orochimaru who is even more talented, couldn't escape Itachi genjutsu at all, Jiraiya obviously wouldn't breeze through it at all.

When Orochimaru was caught in Itachi genjutsu paralysis, he couldn't do anything and struggled hard to attempt to dispel it, and Itachi simply chopped off his hand, Itachi could've Tsukiyomi'd him or Amaterasu and killed him right then and there but he let Orochimaru go.


Itachi is capable of reading, knowing, and predicting it, the only large one i recall is swamp of the underworld, the rest requires summons.



Its not the fact that Orochimaru purposely didn't want to dodge the attack, its that he couldn't dodge it. The sword of totsuka is long range, huge, fast, it can cover a big surface area, and surrounds Itachi wherever he goes, and the fact that Jiraiya knows nothing about it. If it touches him, Jiraiya is sealed off for eternity

Originally posted by Terryc250
There's no real evidence about who they were talking about, but the evidence shows it definately was not Jiraiya, and thats my point.


Yeah, Itachi didn't need a finger or anything, basically just looking at him can catch a person in genjutsu.


That makes no sense, Sharingan is Sharingan, Itachi's blood is Sasuke's blood, in the Databook it states "Sharingan" it doesn't say its Sasuke's special ability

The ultimate power of the "Sharingan", that once could tame even the "Kyuubi". A portion of it is visible in Sasuke when he is able to control Manda.

Its the power of the SHARINGAN.


He didn't know it was specifically Itachi, like ive stated before, Jiraiya knows Akatsuki's motives, and he suspects the akatsuki will come after Naruto's bijuu. Knowledge to not look into Itachi's eyes, but if he looks at Itachi he can still be caught in genjutsu, and while he's caught in Genjutsu Itachi can easily apply Tsukiyomi.


Jiraiya is basically in terms the same as Naruto but older and more experienced, if Orochimaru who is even more talented, couldn't escape Itachi genjutsu at all, Jiraiya obviously wouldn't breeze through it at all.

When Orochimaru was caught in Itachi genjutsu paralysis, he couldn't do anything and struggled hard to attempt to dispel it, and Itachi simply chopped off his hand, Itachi could've Tsukiyomi'd him or Amaterasu and killed him right then and there but he let Orochimaru go.


Itachi is capable of reading, knowing, and predicting it, the only large one i recall is swamp of the underworld, the rest requires summons.



Its not the fact that Orochimaru purposely didn't want to dodge the attack, its that he couldn't dodge it. The sword of totsuka is long range, huge, fast, it can cover a big surface area, and surrounds Itachi wherever he goes, and the fact that Jiraiya knows nothing about it. If it touches him, Jiraiya is sealed off for eternity Of course looking at him will catch you in a genjutsu...You usually meet somebodies eyes when you look at them, and Naruto wasn't exactly shying away from looking at him face to face while he made the whole brother speech.

Kyuubi says Sasuke's eyes are like Madara's. Not just any sharingan but Madara's specifically. Jiraiya and the frog also say only Madara had the power to summon Kyuubi, and that no other Uchiha could.

Jiraiya is a lot more skilled than Naruto when it comes to chakra control, and just about everything else. Naruto is pure chakra power. He doesn't have that great of control because he doesn't need it. It's why he can't use Rasengan without a clone.

Oro had no inclination to dodge the sword at all. Jiraiya also isn't going to be sitting there spouting off nonsense.

Imo it's really a toss-up. Jiraiya has the power, Itachi has the genjutsu, and ultimate defense.

Honestly i think its more than a bit far fetched to think that kisame and itachi are talking about kyuubi.

Originally posted by Kento
Of course looking at him will catch you in a genjutsu...You usually meet somebodies eyes when you look at them, and Naruto wasn't exactly shying away from looking at him face to face while he made the whole brother speech.
Yeah Jiraiya would literally have to turn away if he doesn't want to be caught in genjutsu, thats if he knows itachi can get him in genjutsu just by looking at him, which he most likely doesn't know.


Madara wasn't born with any special sharingan, he mastered it, and obtained new powers, Sasuke's sharingan is no different from Itachi's. Kyuubi doesn't say specifically Sasuke's, he reference the Uchiha bloodline, the sharingan itself.

Kyuubi: So you're of the Uchiha
Kyuubi: Such would be the power of that accursed Sharingan and your forsaken ancestry

The ultimate power of the "Sharingan", that once could tame even the "Kyuubi". A portion of it is visible in Sasuke when he is able to control Manda.

It's the Sharingan power, it never states Sasuke was born with a special Sharingan, nor was it ever stated Madara was born with a special Sharingan.


Jiraiya is just an older more experienced version of Naruto, they both had the same little talent, Orochimaru was born with alot of talent and was a genius, yet he couldn't do a thing against Itachi's genjutsu, he struggled to dispel Itachi's genjutsu and Itachi casually cut his hand off, he could've killed him right then and there but let him live so what makes you think Jiraiya can breeze through it? While Jiraiya struggles to dispel himself from Itachi's genjutsu, Itachi could tsukiyomi him or amaterasu or whatever he chooses to do.

No one just stands there and takes a sword for fun, Orochimaru wasn't able to dodge the sword even if he wanted to. Its not slow either, its fast, and has a huge range and could probably clear forests in seconds.

And the fact that no one knows about the sword of totsuka, if Jiraiya gets touches it, he'll be sealed off for eternity.

It seems like Itachi would be the one taking more wins then not, apparently it seems like Jiraiya is going to be on the defense, Itachi has the tools to counter Jiraiya

He has more powerful katon jutsu

He has the sharingan to predict, read, counter Jiraiya's jutsus

He has his sharingan to counter and overcome Jiraiyas genjutsu, and a more powerful genjutsu attack

He has the advantage by being the most powerful genjutsu user while genjutsu is Jiraiyas weak point

He has the sharingan that is capable of controlling summons

If he wanted to escape amaterasu he would literally have to run faster then Itachi's eyesight

Itachi has Susano'o which can nullify any of Jiraiyas attacks, and kill Jiraiya in a single hit, in which Susano'o already has a feat of killing a sannin in mere seconds.

Itachi seems to have the upperhand in this fight.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Yeah Jiraiya would literally have to turn away if he doesn't want to be caught in genjutsu, thats if he knows itachi can get him in genjutsu just by looking at him, which he most likely doesn't know.


Madara wasn't born with any special sharingan, he mastered it, and obtained new powers, Sasuke's sharingan is no different from Itachi's. Kyuubi doesn't say specifically Sasuke's, he reference the Uchiha bloodline, the sharingan itself.

Kyuubi: So you're of the Uchiha
Kyuubi: Such would be the power of that accursed Sharingan and your forsaken ancestry

The ultimate power of the "Sharingan", that once could tame even the "Kyuubi". A portion of it is visible in Sasuke when he is able to control Manda.

It's the Sharingan power, it never states Sasuke was born with a special Sharingan, nor was it ever stated Madara was born with a special Sharingan.


Jiraiya is just an older more experienced version of Naruto, they both had the same little talent, Orochimaru was born with alot of talent and was a genius, yet he couldn't do a thing against Itachi's genjutsu, he struggled to dispel Itachi's genjutsu and Itachi casually cut his hand off, he could've killed him right then and there but let him live so what makes you think Jiraiya can breeze through it? While Jiraiya struggles to dispel himself from Itachi's genjutsu, Itachi could tsukiyomi him or amaterasu or whatever he chooses to do.

No one just stands there and takes a sword for fun, Orochimaru wasn't able to dodge the sword even if he wanted to. Its not slow either, its fast, and has a huge range and could probably clear forests in seconds.

And the fact that no one knows about the sword of totsuka, if Jiraiya gets touches it, he'll be sealed off for eternity.

It seems like Itachi would be the one taking more wins then not, apparently it seems like Jiraiya is going to be on the defense, Itachi has the tools to counter Jiraiya

He has more powerful katon jutsu

He has the sharingan to predict, read, counter Jiraiya's jutsus

He has his sharingan to counter and overcome Jiraiyas genjutsu, and a more powerful genjutsu attack

He has the advantage by being the most powerful genjutsu user while genjutsu is Jiraiyas weak point

He has the sharingan that is capable of controlling summons

If he wanted to escape amaterasu he would literally have to run faster then Itachi's eyesight

Itachi has Susano'o which can nullify any of Jiraiyas attacks, and kill Jiraiya in a single hit, in which Susano'o already has a feat of killing a sannin in mere seconds.

Itachi seems to have the upperhand in this fight. Kyuubi says that about him being able to see him. Then when Sasuke looks at him he specifically says "That eye power. That chakra more cursed than mine. Like the former Uchiha Madara."

He knows of the sharingan and Uchiha and why Sasuke was able to see him inside of Naruto because of the sharingan. But he specifically says Madra when he's talking about Sasuke's eyes not just the bloodline limit.

Jiraiya is still, and has always been more skilled at chakra control than Naruto. Just because he isn't a genius doesn't mean anything but that doesn't make him like Naruto who has no chakra control whatsoever. And Oro was talking with Itachi just sitting there not struggling. The fact he was able to move his hands means he did break it because he wasn't paralyzed anymore. Not that Itachi will be able to do that to Jiraiya who will be using summons.

Orochimaru has taken plenty of attacks he could easily dodge. Sasuke's during the forest of death, three-tails attack on the bridge, Sasuke cutting him up waiting for the paralyzing venom to effect Sasuke so he can take his body. Oro was also sitting there doing a monologue. Something Jiraiya isn't going to do. And the sword is thing enough to dodge. Stabbed sideways it wasn't wider than Oro's body. So dodging to the left or right isn't going to be hard. Or ducking under it won't be impossible if it comes at you flat instead of on the side. It's just very long. It's a sword. I seriously doubt Jiraiya is going to let himself get touched by it.

The three MS moves are the only attacks Itachi has that are stronger.

The sharingan can't predict everything.

Casting genjutsu is Jiraiya's weak point. Just because he can't cast it doesn't suddenly mean it's his weakness he can't get out of. Unlike Naruto.

There is no proof his sharingan can control summons. Oro has said Sasuke's sharingan is superior to Itachi's, and his sharingan is referenced to be exactly like Madara's who was the only one capable of controlling Kyuubi.

Or just..use a replacement jutsu, or go into the shadows. Or just block it with a different jutsu that it'll hit and burn at.

And Susasnoo willl also kill Itachi itself. And it killed a Sannin who was sitting there doing his usual, I'm going to take over Sasuke, monologue. Jiraiya isn't going to be sitting there do that. And he'll care it's a sword unlike Oro who is able to regen himself.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Assume? Uhh do you understand propar grammar and speech? I broke it down so that even a 5 year old should be able to understand. Pay attention.


It really doesn't matter since i've been following Naruto since before it was even turned into an anime, you on the other hand have most likely just started watching it when it appeared on your TV screen as the dub garbage.


Again, do you understand proper speech and grammar? There is NO WAY they can be talking about Jiraiya, they are referring to him/he/his, then they him/he/his caretaker is a legendary sannin, the 2 cannot be the same person, unless they say Jiraiya's caretaker is a legendary sannin which makes zero sense. The original is a direct translation from the original version, the dub garbage does a half-ass translation and adds in BS that makes no sense at all.


Current? You mean the dub garbage? Again, they do a half-ass job of translating and half the time they don't even focus on translating it properly and just say corny shit to match how the mouths are moving, and add in crap that makes no sense the they actual storyline.


No, they are not "clearly" talking about Jiraiya, it can be ANYONE BUT Jiraiya, do you not understand proper english? Read this and try to comprehend it, RED and BLUE CANNOT be the same person, his/he/him are referring to ONE person, then they go on and say his(the same person as before) caretaker is a legendary sannin which is referring to someone else(jiraiya)

Kisame: Perhaps you can fight him evenly... but I cannot. He's too strong.
Itachi: Yes. If we both fought him, we would both be killed... or in a good case, we might kill him , but we'd die along with him (does this scenario sound familar? A sacrifice to kill something) . Even if we had more men, that result would not change.
Kisame: His caretaker is a legendary Sannin . Konoha's Uchiha Clan and the Mist's Seven Shinobi-gatana seem petty before his name.
Itachi: Yes, but... All strong opponents have a weakness.

RED and BLUE CANNOT be referring to the exact same people.

If they are talking about Jiraiya, it would make no sense, it they would be saying this:


Kisame: Perhaps you can fight JIRAIYA evenly... but I cannot. JIRAIYA's too strong.
Itachi: Yes. If we both fought JIRAIYA, we would both be killed... or in a good case, we might kill JIRAIYA , but we'd die along with JIRAIYA. Even if we had more men, that result would not change.
Kisame: JIRAIYA'S caretaker is a legendary Sannin . Konoha's Uchiha Clan and the Mist's Seven Shinobi-gatana seem petty before JIRAIYA's name.
Itachi: Yes, but... All strong opponents have a weakness.

Wait a minute.. Jiraiya's caretaker is a legendary sannin? That makes NO SENSE, so OBVIOUSLY Red wasn't referring to Jiraiya


All i got to say for this is.....LOL

Your debating skills with "Dude man its Jiraiya, Dude man its Jiraiya" are very impressive, now how about some evidence?

Yeah well I go by the proper name.

Cool, you want a cookie? Or a poster of him to put up on your wall now?

Ok, please show me where they state Kyuubi in Itachi's and Kisame's conversation, oh this is going to be funny as hell.

It doesn't matter if you have watched Naruto longer than me, if I can still understand it better than you can.

SHOW ME WHERE THE HELL KYUUBI's NAME IS. HE ISN'T EVEN MENTIONED AT ALL IN THERE CONVERSATION.

HIM: referring to Jiraiya. Naruto can't control Kyuubi fully, and can't use his full powers. And how would they honestly fight Kyuubi? Oh yeah, they wouldn't have fought him, because at that time of Naruto's development, the only way to fight him is for Pein to extract him out, and yet, he would be sealed away.

Kisame: Perhaps you can fight him(first referring to Jiraiya) evenly... but I cannot. He's too strong.
Itachi: Yes. If we both fought him, we would both be killed... or in a good case, we might kill him , but we'd die along with him (does this scenario sound familar? A sacrifice to kill something) . Even if we had more men, that result would not change.
Kisame: His(then talikng about Naruto) caretaker is a legendary Sannin . Konoha's Uchiha Clan and the Mist's Seven Shinobi-gatana seem petty before his name.
Itachi: Yes, but... All strong opponents have a weakness.
But you are too blind to notice all these things. You need help seeing.

Me, needing to show you evidence. I just pasted the CURRENT QUOTE on the conversation in one of my above posts, and Kyuubi is never even mentioned, AT ALL. Show me evidence where Kyuubi's name is there first.

Well I live in the "present" not the "past".

You're even more immature than I am, noob.

Originally posted by Terryc250
You really think Kisame can fight Kyuubi Bijuu one on one and absorb all his chakra? Just Kyuubi's tail alone shattered mountains, and created Tsunamis. If we go by that logic, Kisame can beat everyone by just absorbing their chakra. Kyuubi Biju is an impossibility, if Naruto even were to try and unleash it, he can stop his progression into the tailed forms by eating his chakra.

I am still waiting for Terryc250 to show me where Kyuubi is stated in any of th conversations, 2 anime, and 1 manga. The manga never even mentions Kyuubi, and Jiraiya is stated in all of them, numerous times. Kyuubi fighting Itachi and Kisame at that time, it doesn't make sence at all.

Originally posted by Terryc250
There's no real evidence about who they were talking about, but the evidence shows it definately was not Jiraiya, and thats my point.
Wil he already said there is no evidence who Itachi was talking about until Kisame mentions finding Naruto at a ramen shop. Which there really isn't. It would most likely be Naruto and Jiraiya but even then talking about killing Naruto is a bit strange.

Originally posted by Kento
Wil he already said there is no evidence who Itachi was talking about until Kisame mentions finding Naruto at a ramen shop. Which there really isn't. It would most likely be Naruto and Jiraiya but even then talking about killing Naruto is a bit strange.

Exactly, there is absolutly no evidence whatsoever about talking about Kyuubi. He's never even mentioned. How would they even fight Kyuubi? I can't even think how they would fight. Obviously they are talking about Jiraiya in there conversation, but Terry doesn't see, or understand that.

Originally posted by Kento
Kyuubi says that about him being able to see him. Then when Sasuke looks at him he specifically says "That eye power. That chakra more cursed than mine. Like the former Uchiha Madara."
He knows of the sharingan and Uchiha and why Sasuke was able to see him inside of Naruto because of the sharingan. But he specifically says Madra when he's talking about Sasuke's eyes not just the bloodline limit.

So you're saying Madara was born with a special sharingan and a special chakra? There's zero evidence of that, Itachi never mentioned that at all, it wasn't stated anywhere in any databook. He says he has eyes like Madara because they BOTH have Sharingan, its stated in the Databook that its the power of the "Sharingan"

He knows of the sharingans power because of Madara, no other Uchiha has confronted Kyuubi except Madara and Sasuke, thats why he talks about the sharingan bloodline

"You can even see me inside of Naruto, this abominable sharingan is really the power of a cursed bloodline"
"That eye power, that chakra more cursed then mine, like the former Uchiha Madara"

All he's doing is describing the Uchiha, then makes reference to Madara, the only other Uchiha that has confronted him. The answer would have been at best, moot, but however; as stated by the databook its the power of the "Sharingan" and not Sasuke's special ability, this is fact.


Where's your evidence on that? I don't remember anything even suggesting Jiraiya was better at chakra control then Naruto fromt he beginning. Everything suggests that he was just like Naruto. Orochimaru couldn't do anything he was trapped, and struggled to release a simple paralyzing genjutsu, and got his hand chopped off as he struggled to release it. Itachi would be using more powerful genjutsus, that Jiraiya would definately have problems with if even Orochimaru couldn't do anything against them. Summons are nothing infront of the a powerful Sharingan, like its stated in the databook Sharingans can control summons.


Nothing suggests he could've dodged it, it was almost an instant attack. It wasn't vertically wider then Oro's body, but the length is quite far, and follows Itachi so long as its activated, Jiraiya most likely won't beable to outrun it.


Doesn't matter since basically all of Jiraiyas jutsus would be read by the Sharingan, we still don't even know what a full powered Itachi would be like anyway.


"The ability to read and defeat all types of genjutsu,taijutsu,ninjutsu"

So yes, it can read/predict all types of jutsus.

It can see the movement of chakra, and it can predict physical movement like handseals. Just like how Kakashi did the water explosion on Zabuza before Zabuza even used it himself.


To cancel genjutsu you need good chakra control, which Jiraiya (being like Naruto) was never good at from the beginning, he is probably above average now, but he still would probably be in the same boat as Orochimaru, and struggle with it.


No he didn't say Sasuke's sharingan was better then Itachi's, he said he sees the power in his eyes, meaning he see's Sasuke's desire/potential to become more powerful then Itachi. Its stated by the Databook that its the power of the Sharingan.
Databook > your opinion.


Replacement jutsus will be killed instantly, Jiraiya cannot pull out handseals faster then Itachi looking at him, he would literally have to run faster then ITachi's eyesight to escape Amaterasu.


Not a healthy Itachi that didn't give his power away to Naruto, its quite farfetched that you think Jiraiya will be dodging all of thse 1 hit kill moves, he mostwill be getting caught in genjutsu, then tsukiyomi'd, if somehow he luckily manages to escape that somehow, he'll be killed off with amaterasu, if he somehow (most likely won't) escapes Amaterasu, he'll be killed with Susanoo, the odds are really against him, Jiraiyas jutsus will be read, and his movements will be predicted, the odds are totally against Jiraiya.

Originally posted by Wil7
Ok, please show me where they state Kyuubi in Itachi's and Kisame's conversation, oh this is going to be funny as hell.
Its not stated anywhere as i said, its suggested its Kyuubi. It could be anyone BUT Jiraiya, because it references Jiraiya as another person in the same speech, ANOTHER person.


Obviously not.. you watch the dubs.




Are you serious? I mean, wow.. just wow, I know you're young but I thought you can atleast comprehend proper grammar, don't you learn that in elementary school?

What you posted there is incorrect grammar.

You cannot go from referring to him/his/he to all of the sudden changing that him/he/his to another person out of no where, that are all referring to ONE same person until the topic of person changes.

If they were going to say that instead of saying

Kisame: Perhaps you can fight him(first referring to Jiraiya) evenly... but I cannot. He's too strong.
Itachi: Yes. If we both fought him, we would both be killed... or in a good case, we might kill him , but we'd die along with him (does this scenario sound familar? A sacrifice to kill something) . Even if we had more men, that result would not change.
Kisame: His(then talikng about Naruto) caretaker is a legendary Sannin . Konoha's Uchiha Clan and the Mist's Seven Shinobi-gatana seem petty before his name.
Itachi: Yes, but... All strong opponents have a weakness.

Which makes no sense, and it totally incorrect grammar. You're simply picking and choosing who you want each him/he/his to be and ignoring proper speech.

If it was Jiraiya they would have said:

Kisame: Perhaps you can fight him(first referring to Jiraiya) evenly... but I cannot. He's too strong.
Itachi: Yes. If we both fought him, we would both be killed... or in a good case, we might kill him , but we'd die along with him (does this scenario sound familar? A sacrifice to kill something) . Even if we had more men, that result would not change.
Kisame: He is a legendary Sannin . Konoha's Uchiha Clan and the Mist's Seven Shinobi-gatana seem petty before his name.
Itachi: Yes, but... All strong opponents have a weakness.

Which is what the did not, the evidence shown is that person (his/him/he who they were talking about) has a caretaker that is a legendary sannin (jiraiya). Him/he/his and Jiraiya are NOT the same person.


.. We all live in the present, I just choose to go by the original correct version of Naruto, while you choose to go by the garbage version made for little kids.


...Wow, this line alone you just proved yourself to be both immature and an idiot.

Originally posted by Terryc250
So you're saying Madara was born with a special sharingan and a special chakra? There's zero evidence of that, Itachi never mentioned that at all, it wasn't stated anywhere in any databook. He says he has eyes like Madara because they BOTH have Sharingan, its stated in the Databook that its the power of the "Sharingan"

He knows of the sharingans power because of Madara, no other Uchiha has confronted Kyuubi except Madara and Sasuke, thats why he talks about the sharingan bloodline

"You can even see me inside of Naruto, this abominable sharingan is really the power of a cursed bloodline"
"That eye power, that chakra more cursed then mine, like the former Uchiha Madara"

All he's doing is describing the Uchiha, then makes reference to Madara, the only other Uchiha that has confronted him. The answer would have been at best, moot, but however; as stated by the databook its the power of the "Sharingan" and not Sasuke's special ability, this is fact.


Where's your evidence on that? I don't remember anything even suggesting Jiraiya was better at chakra control then Naruto fromt he beginning. Everything suggests that he was just like Naruto. Orochimaru couldn't do anything he was trapped, and struggled to release a simple paralyzing genjutsu, and got his hand chopped off as he struggled to release it. Itachi would be using more powerful genjutsus, that Jiraiya would definately have problems with if even Orochimaru couldn't do anything against them. Summons are nothing infront of the a powerful Sharingan, like its stated in the databook Sharingans can control summons.


Nothing suggests he could've dodged it, it was almost an instant attack. It wasn't vertically wider then Oro's body, but the length is quite far, and follows Itachi so long as its activated, Jiraiya most likely won't beable to outrun it.


Doesn't matter since basically all of Jiraiyas jutsus would be read by the Sharingan, we still don't even know what a full powered Itachi would be like anyway.


"The ability to read and defeat all types of genjutsu,taijutsu,ninjutsu"

So yes, it can read/predict all types of jutsus.

It can see the movement of chakra, and it can predict physical movement like handseals. Just like how Kakashi did the water explosion on Zabuza before Zabuza even used it himself.


To cancel genjutsu you need good chakra control, which Jiraiya (being like Naruto) was never good at from the beginning, he is probably above average now, but he still would probably be in the same boat as Orochimaru, and struggle with it.


No he didn't say Sasuke's sharingan was better then Itachi's, he said he sees the power in his eyes, meaning he see's Sasuke's desire/potential to become more powerful then Itachi. Its stated by the Databook that its the power of the Sharingan.
Databook > your opinion.


Replacement jutsus will be killed instantly, Jiraiya cannot pull out handseals faster then Itachi looking at him, he would literally have to run faster then ITachi's eyesight to escape Amaterasu.


Not a healthy Itachi that didn't give his power away to Naruto, its quite farfetched that you think Jiraiya will be dodging all of thse 1 hit kill moves, he mostwill be getting caught in genjutsu, then tsukiyomi'd, if somehow he luckily manages to escape that somehow, he'll be killed off with amaterasu, if he somehow (most likely won't) escapes Amaterasu, he'll be killed with Susanoo, the odds are really against him, Jiraiyas jutsus will be read, and his movements will be predicted, the odds are totally against Jiraiya.

Kyuubi talks about the sharingan, Sasuke says something, then Kyuubi states he has eyes like Madara afterwards. Oro has also said Sasuke's eye surpass Itachi's. Just because Sasuke can do something, and Madara can do something with their sharingan doesn't mean Itachi can do the same thing.

Jiraiya has NEVER shown bad chakra control. He wasn't a genius sure but he wasn't as bad as Naruto is when it comes to controlling chakra. Oro broke the paralyzing jutsu. He was able to move his hands then Itachi chopped them off. He didn't do it easily sure but there are also different types of genjutsu. A sight-based one would be easier than a paralyzing one to get out of anyway cause you can still move to do seals.

And just because Sasuke does something when he's stated to have eyes like the one who can actually control Kyuubi, and was stated to have superior eyes to Itachi doesn't mean Itachi can control summons just because he's more powerful.

He doesn't need to outrun it...it's not like it's so wide he'd have trouble dodging it.

Except the sharingan can be defeated. AS it has been before.

And replacement jutsu's being killed means what? He's out of Itachi's sight by then. And he can still hide in shadows.

Originally posted by Kento
Kyuubi talks about the sharingan, Sasuke says something, then Kyuubi states he has eyes like Madara afterwards. Oro has also said Sasuke's eye surpass Itachi's. Just because Sasuke can do something, and Madara can do something with their sharingan doesn't mean Itachi can do the same thing.
... Dude it's stated by the DATABOOK that it's the power of the Sharingan, he says Sasuke has eyes like Madara, because he does, they both have the Sharingan. I'm giving you evidence that its the power of the sharingan, yet you're not giving me any evidence that Sasuke and Madara were born with a special sharingan.


He was just like Naruto, its suggested many many times in the series, Orochimaru said he's training Naruto instead of a genius because Naruto and himself were alike. Orochimaru did NOT break the paralyzing genjutsu, he could barely move, and he was struggling to make a seal, thats why Itachi easily cut off his hand because Orochimaru was struggling to make a handseal.

No a paralyzing genjutsu is one of the simpler genjutsu, as shown Orochimaru is able to do it to weaker opponents, but Itachi's genjutsu is so advanced that even powerful opponents have trouble dispelling it. Itachi's more higher level genjutsu would be more difficult to dispel.


What part of the Databook says its the Sharingans power do you not understand? Obviously Itachi who has mastered the Sharingan is capable of doing its abilities(besides not going blind).

From the Databook:
The main reason why the "Sharingan" was feared by everyone, including the inhabitants of the village, is the power hidden in those eyes, able to subdue even "bijuu". Sasuke, who is rapidly mastering his skills as an Uchiha, is also gradually awakening to that cursed power.

Right there suggests that Sasuke is slowly mastering the Sharingan abilities, and thats why he is able to do some of the things the Sharingan is capable of. Itachi who has already long mastered it, logically is capable of doing its abilities as well


Itachi has never lost to anyone, Jiraiya is the one with losses, Madara had a compeltely off-panel loss to 1st hokage who has his own kekkei genkai. And the battle to that is totally unclear.


No, Jiraiya isn't THAT fast, nor can he pull out handseals to make that many clones, seriously Jiraiya wouldn't even survive the first couple jutsus of Mangekyou. He isn't fast enough to run passed Itachi eyesight. Plus the fact that he needs to buy time to even get into Sage mode in the first place.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Kyuubi Biju is an impossibility, if Naruto even were to try and unleash it, he can stop his progression into the tailed forms by eating his chakra.
Thats never been proven, Kisame only absorbed a bit of Kyuubi chakra when Naruto was just borrowing some chakra, there's not really any evidence he can stop the emotional Naruto when his seal weakens and he transforms into the kyuubi.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Its not stated anywhere as i said, its suggested its Kyuubi. It could be anyone BUT Jiraiya, because it references Jiraiya as another person in the same speech, ANOTHER person.


Obviously not.. you watch the dubs.




Are you serious? I mean, wow.. just wow, I know you're young but I thought you can atleast comprehend proper grammar, don't you learn that in elementary school?

What you posted there is incorrect grammar.

You cannot go from referring to him/his/he to all of the sudden changing that him/he/his to another person out of no where, that are all referring to ONE same person until the topic of person changes.

If they were going to say that instead of saying

Kisame: Perhaps you can fight him(first referring to Jiraiya) evenly... but I cannot. He's too strong.
Itachi: Yes. If we both fought him, we would both be killed... or in a good case, we might kill him , but we'd die along with him (does this scenario sound familar? A sacrifice to kill something) . Even if we had more men, that result would not change.
Kisame: His(then talikng about Naruto) caretaker is a legendary Sannin . Konoha's Uchiha Clan and the Mist's Seven Shinobi-gatana seem petty before his name.
Itachi: Yes, but... All strong opponents have a weakness.

Which makes no sense, and it totally incorrect grammar. You're simply picking and choosing who you want each him/he/his to be and ignoring proper speech.

If it was Jiraiya they would have said:

Kisame: Perhaps you can fight him(first referring to Jiraiya) evenly... but I cannot. He's too strong.
Itachi: Yes. If we both fought him, we would both be killed... or in a good case, we might kill him , but we'd die along with him (does this scenario sound familar? A sacrifice to kill something) . Even if we had more men, that result would not change.
Kisame: He is a legendary Sannin . Konoha's Uchiha Clan and the Mist's Seven Shinobi-gatana seem petty before his name.
Itachi: Yes, but... All strong opponents have a weakness.

Which is what the did not, the evidence shown is that person (his/him/he who they were talking about) has a caretaker that is a legendary sannin (jiraiya). Him/he/his and Jiraiya are NOT the same person.


.. We all live in the present, I just choose to go by the original correct version of Naruto, while you choose to go by the garbage version made for little kids.


...Wow, this line alone you just proved yourself to be both immature and an idiot.

I don't know what will convinse you because they can't fight Kyuubi. The only other person they could be talking about is Jiraiya, no one else at all.

Who gives ashit about spelling correctly on here, honestly? I just type what ever comes to mind and I don't give a shit if I spell right or wrong. Only someone like you would point something stupid like that out. No one but you cares.

The quote there first came from the Japanese version and then they fix it and make it correct for the English version, so the Japanese version doesn't apply in this case.

If they were talking about Kyuubi, they would have said something like I'm pretty certain that you could go toe to toe with Kyuubi, but I'm not sure I could, and it wouldn't and they couldn't fight him because there is no way they can.

Yeah, WE all live in the present, but YOU want to go by a quote that had mess ups and they wanted to make it right, which isn't garbage, it is the correct way, and right way it should be.

Why call me an idiot when you already have proven the little you know about Naruto by actually thinking they are talking about Kyuubi, lmao.

Originally posted by Wil7
The quote there first came from the Japanese version and then they fix it and make it correct for the English version, so the Japanese version doesn't apply in this case.
You're saying the author was wrong about his own writing?

Originally posted by King Kandy
You're saying the author was wrong about his own writing?

He made a mess up, and fixed it and made it better. Why would 1 thing have it differently than the others.

The author wasn't the one who changed the line, the dub company did that on their own.

Originally posted by Wil7
I don't know what will convinse you because they can't fight Kyuubi. The only other person they could be talking about is Jiraiya, no one else at all.
No, he cannot be talking about Jiraiya, because Jiraiya's caretaker isn't a legendary Sannin.


Wow.. I didn't even say anything about spelling.

I said grammar. You mean to tell me you don't even know what grammar is? Seriously, you're supposed to learn it in elementary school.

Grammar is the way sentences are contructed, if you understood proper english grammar you would see that everything I have stated is correct.


The original version holds more weight then the translated version, the english dubs do make mistakes all of the time, becasue it's not the author of the story who translates it, it's the dubbing company, the true canon version is the original manga, which doesn't state anything like that at all. Then the anime added that line in (which wasn't talking about Jiraiya) , then the garbage dub used a poorly translated version of the Japanese line (but they still weren't talking about Jiraiya as i explained already).


No, like i said the scene showed cut into them midway, that's why they referred to the subject as "him".

In normal speech you refer to the person by their name the first time, then refer to the person as him the rest of the time, until the subject of person changes. You don't refer to them b their name in every single line.


What quote that had mess ups? Nothing had mess ups, its just messed up to YOU because you want them to be referring that person as Jiraiya which they obviously aren't

Basically your saying it like this:

"Itachi and Kisame talks about something being very powerful (that thing cannot be Jiraiya)"

You: Oh they messed up, because the thing isn't Jiraiya, and i want it to be Jiraiya, so they messed up.

Ridiculous right?

And wtf is this talk about "we live in the present"? Wtf are you talking about?


I'm pretty sure every single person who has read your posts on this forum knows your intellectual level. Honestly... you've been making yourself look foolish over and over again, its both funny and sad at the same time.

I am tired of arguing a bullshit debate, it's useless, and won't change your messed up opinion.

It's not my opinion, its fact. Anyone who understands proper english grammar knows they cannot be talking about Jiraiya, either you don't understand basic grammar or you're just being too stubborn to admit it.

Well your so called "fact" is incorrect, as he is never stated in the world of Naruto in that conversation. Sorry dude, but you are wrong. Anyone knows that they were talking about Jiraiya, not, , Kyuubi .

While I find it unlikely they were talking about Naruto, Terry's interpretation of the wording is sound Wil.

Originally posted by Wil7
Well your so called "fact" is incorrect, as he is never stated in the world of Naruto in that conversation. Sorry dude, but you are wrong. Anyone knows that they were talking about Jiraiya, not, , Kyuubi .

I never said its fact that its Kyuubi, because they don't give any names, but they mention Jiraiya as another person, that is fact.

They were talking about Jiraiya the entire time, got it.

Who else would they fight then?

Umm... they were clearly talking about two people in the entire speech, Jiraiya being in the second part of the speech where they go on to talk about the Sannin.

Just re-read it after you're done elementary school, they'll teach you how to read sentences in proper grammar by then.

A shonen Jump represenative has been doing a web vidoe blog not so long ago. And he himself has stated that English dub has mistranlated countless errors from the Japanese text. Original Japanese tranlastion>Eng Trans>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dub

Originally posted by Terryc250
Umm... they were clearly talking about two people in the entire speech, Jiraiya being in the second part of the speech where they go on to talk about the Sannin.

Well, there is the Japanese anime, where it SUPPOSIBLY is talking about 2 different people, and there is the Manga and english anime, which are only talking about Jiraiya through the entire thing.

And I am still waiting for who that other person is, because it is clearly not Kyuubi.

Originally posted by Wil7
Well, there is the Japanese anime, where it SUPPOSIBLY is talking about 2 different people, and there is the Manga and english anime, which are only talking about Jiraiya through the entire thing.

And I am still waiting for who that other person is, because it is clearly not Kyuubi.

You mean, in the original japanese version, they ARE talking about 2 different people, fact. In the manga, it's not even in it. No one cares about the garbage dub, but in the dub they are talking about 2 different people as well.

The thing they are talking about is clearly quite powerful as stated that even if the akatsuki had more men, the outcome wouldn't be clear, and that they would have to sacrifice themselves in order to take it down, which is obviously not Jiraiya. The fact that they mention Jiraiya as another person proves it's not Jiraiya. Anyone trying to argue this is just either too stupid to understand or just being arrogant.

Originally posted by Terryc250
No, he cannot be talking about Jiraiya, because Jiraiya's caretaker isn't a legendary Sannin.


Wow.. I didn't even say anything about spelling.

I said grammar. You mean to tell me you don't even know what grammar is? Seriously, you're supposed to learn it in elementary school.

Grammar is the way sentences are contructed, if you understood proper english grammar you would see that everything I have stated is correct.


The original version holds more weight then the translated version, the english dubs do make mistakes all of the time, becasue it's not the author of the story who translates it, it's the dubbing company, the true canon version is the original manga, which doesn't state anything like that at all. Then the anime added that line in (which wasn't talking about Jiraiya) , then the garbage dub used a poorly translated version of the Japanese line (but they still weren't talking about Jiraiya as i explained already).


No, like i said the scene showed cut into them midway, that's why they referred to the subject as "him".

In normal speech you refer to the person by their name the first time, then refer to the person as him the rest of the time, until the subject of person changes. You don't refer to them b their name in every single line.


What quote that had mess ups? Nothing had mess ups, its just messed up to YOU because you want them to be referring that person as Jiraiya which they obviously aren't

Basically your saying it like this:

"Itachi and Kisame talks about something being very powerful (that thing cannot be Jiraiya)"

You: Oh they messed up, because the thing isn't Jiraiya, and i want it to be Jiraiya, so they messed up.

Ridiculous right?

And wtf is this talk about "we live in the present"? Wtf are you talking about?


I'm pretty sure every single person who has read your posts on this forum knows your intellectual level. Honestly... you've been making yourself look foolish over and over again, its both funny and sad at the same time.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Just re-read it after you're done elementary school, they'll teach you how to read sentences in proper grammar by then.


Make anymore comments like this, and it's a warning for you. That is unnecessary.

And these are?

Originally posted by Wil7
You are a persistant jackass.

Originally posted by Wil7
You're even more immature than I am, noob.

Just don't make anymore comments of that nature. The other party has been notified, too.