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What are your opinions? Who is the Sith'ari?

1) Darth Revan is a potential candidate, since his destroying of the Star Forge greatly reduced the Sith's numbers, at the same time, bringing about the eventual purge of the Jedi Order. His holocron also provided Bane with the foundation to create the Rule of Two, which would lead to the Jedi Order's downfall. He also was in a hair's reach from completely conquering the galaxy. Later, Kreia alluded to the idea that Revan was above the influence of the Dark Side. Revan indeed was above the darkside's influence and is one of the greatest Jedi in history, but still the most likely candidate for the Sith'ari as it is not necessary to be a Sith in order to be a Sith'ari. He is also the only candidate other than Darth Caedus to be able to use lightside and darkside powers at the same time, and not being able to do so is another restriction.

2) Darth Bane is a candidate, as he provided Kaan with the thought bomb, leading to the destruction of the Brotherhood of Darkness. Afterward he instituted the Rule of Two to make the Sith stronger than ever. It is also alluded to in Darth Bane: Path of Destruction that Bane is fulfilling an ideal that he found in the prophecy and Darth Revan's holocron. He is a very likely candidate as well.

3) Darth Vader is another candidate. His killing of Darth Sidious ended the Rule of Two and eventually brought forth the rise of Darth Caedus and Darth Krayt. However, he is the least likely candidate as the prophecy states "He will be free of all restrictions". All of Vader's limbs were cybernetic, disabling him from using Force lightning and other physical abilities. On the other hand, as the Chosen One he was likely conceived via the Force and had the highest Midi-chlorian count ever recorded, which would likely give him power "free of all restrictions".

4) Darth Caedus is a candidate due to the fact that he succeeded in mastering both light and darkside force powers, nearly conquered the galaxy, and having no restrictions to what he would do to achieve his goal, peace. However, it is highly unlikely that he is the Sith'ari as he is already the subject of the prophecy of the ancient Sith tassels.

5) Darth Krayt is a candidate due to the fact he destroyed the Rule of Two and created the Rule of One. He also had great influence over the galaxy as well as fear.

6) Darth Sidious is a candidate simply because he trained Darth Vader, who destroyed the Sith, and because he ruled more or less the entire galaxy for a considerable length of time.

well I'd say either Darth Bane or Darth Sidious is the most likely candidate for the sith"ari

also this belongs in the Eu section not the versus.

Sidious isn't the Sith'ari. Bane is. Bane was the one who restructured the Sith Order and enabled his lineage to eventually conquer over the Jedi and rule the galaxy, in effect making them better than they were before.

Sidious is definitely the most powerful and accomplished Sith, but he didn't restructure shit. And his death destroyed the Order.

Bane's definitely my favourite candidate. Maybe Revan. And it can't be Vader; Sidious' reincarnation lasted how long? And Krayt's order, on top of being a blight upon the mythos, is just so...no.

Go Revan fansquad !! Revan for Sith'ari !!!

Seriously, didn't Revan inspire Bane to use the Rule of Two ?

ya it was revans idea but bane put it into practice

Bane is the best choice for being the Sithari.

absolutely

Originally posted by Gideon
Sidious isn't the Sith'ari. Bane is. Bane was the one who restructured the Sith Order and enabled his lineage to eventually conquer over the Jedi and rule the galaxy, in effect making them better than they were before.

Sidious is definitely the most powerful and accomplished Sith, but he didn't restructure shit. And his death destroyed the Order.

lol I like your comments.


I think it is either Revan or Bane. Revan took over the galaxy (almost) but Retarded Malak wouldn't have that.. He gave ideas and powers to Bane who implemented them to destroy the inefficient brotherhood of darkness. Then he created the Rule of Two in ROT.. Obviously. He defeated kai'sm and started the gathering of information and set up his vast network of spies and other ppl to get info for him. He knew where the treasure the BOD (brotherhood of darkness) hid and this information and knowlege helped sidious and vader rise to power.

Oh and I'm kinda suprised that Yoda didn't go to kill Bane..

Originally posted by kotorfan
lol I like your comments.


I think it is either Revan or Bane. Revan took over the galaxy (almost) but Retarded Malak wouldn't have that.. He gave ideas and powers to Bane who implemented them to destroy the inefficient brotherhood of darkness. Then he created the Rule of Two in ROT.. Obviously. He defeated kai'sm and started the gathering of information and set up his vast network of spies and other ppl to get info for him. He knew where the treasure the BOD (brotherhood of darkness) hid and this information and knowlege helped sidious and vader rise to power.

Oh and I'm kinda suprised that Yoda didn't go to kill Bane..

why yoda isn't even born yet when bane is around

Originally posted by xxxpoppunker182
why yoda isn't even born yet when bane is around .


oh ok. thx for informing me. xD I just assumed yoda was old enough to have been around the same time bane was alive.

Unless some moronic Revan fanboy changes LFL's mind, it's painfully obvious that Bane is intended to be the Sith'ari. Revan inspired Bane, but Bane implemented the Rule of Two and changed the Sith. Bane is directly responsible for the perpetuation of the Sith Order. Revan is an indirect source at best.

Moronic Revan fanboy ? I hope you don't mean me by that ...

He didn't state anyone specifically but he could mean me also.. hopefully not tho lol

I don't really want to be 'that guy' but.....Isn't this kind of in the wrong part of the forum?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
And Krayt's order, on top of being a blight upon the mythos, is just so...no.

Sorry to go off-topic, but personally I rather like Krayt. He had the guts to buck tradition and say "stuff you Bane, I'll do this my way." You've got to admire that.

but it made them all weaker............

Not really, no.

isn't it the same kind of concept as kaans brotherhood?

That was supposed to be in response to chilled monkey.

I agree, Bane would be the best candidate for Sith'ari.

There is no Sith'ari. The Sith'ari is supposed to be the culmination of all Sith teachings- a perfect being that will never die. All these Sith have died, except Krayt and thats just...no, that just no.

No.

Where, exactly, is it stated that the Sith'ari 'is a perfect being that will never die'?

It's an exaggeration.

Bane is the Sith'ari.

I know it is.

I know he is.

Downloaded any of the Journey tunes yet?

Originally posted by Gideon
Not really, no.

Suit yourself. Personally I admire someone who's willing to make their own decisions and choose 'their own path' regardless of what 'tradition' demands they do.

Originally posted by Gideon
Downloaded any of the Journey tunes yet?

Matter of fact I have. I must admit, they are very good, Gid.

Originally posted by Cpt. Valerian
Matter of fact I have. I must admit, they are very good, Gid.

Thank you, sir. I just (re)stumbled upon a clip of Journey playing one of their more obscure, Spanish/Santana-inspired songs called "La Raza Del Sol" live. It's eight minutes of obscene musicianship.

Surprisingly, it's not just Neal Schon kicking ass on guitar, though there's tons of that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opz32uSM43U

We don't know if Revan died because he went off into the Unknown Regions looking for the true Sith Empire.

Thought this is a great Revan video - a must watch. Has the Cranberries song "Zombie" as the music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAJHVvYOVAE

Revan is a cardboard cut out of a character. When we get a book on him, I might grow to appreciate him. 'Til then, he's a joke and no one can explain why the hell he has so many fanboys.

Tis' the game. People are always gonna love the main character, which is obviously the one you play with.

And, I guess the game being very good helps a bit.

The same reason Master Chief does,despite having the same amount of personality.



The only place I've ever actually heard anything about the Sith'ari: From Yathura in KOTOR.

The Master Chief has far more personality than Darth Revan; he gets cutscenes in three video games and a whole series of books to actually establish himself.

It's truly sad how big of a joke Revan is when you think about how little we see of the "true him." It's also sad to think of how retarded his fanboys are because of it.

The Master Chief only ever displays a Clint Eastwood style of personality, an almost silent character completely lacking in personality quirks.

And I agree with you on the subject of Revan. I've firmly converted to disliking the Hero worship of the faceless character, but ay least Revan has genius going for her, and that she's a philosophically thinking evil Sith character. That puts her above the Chief in my books, I hate that guy.

Halo was crap anyway.

Yuthura never says anything about 'living forever' or 'never will die'. She does say it's a 'perfect being', though. My mistake on that one.

Originally posted by Gideon
The Master Chief has far more personality than Darth Revan; he gets cutscenes in three video games and a whole series of books to actually establish himself.

It's truly sad how big of a joke Revan is when you think about how little we see of the "true him." It's also sad to think of how retarded his fanboys are because of it. Hater.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Halo was crap anyway.

You are in denial.

Halo doesn't suck, but I do think it is a wee bit overrated.

Originally posted by Gideon
It's an exaggeration.

Bane is the Sith'ari.

lol. Something I definitely didn't think I'd ever hear from you.

Perfect beings don't die and the Halo games were average to say the least. Waaaay Overrated.

Halo 2 was the peak in terms of story telling and plot. Halo 1, in comparison, was shallow. Not unenjoyable, because it initially didn't strive to be anything other than your generic science fiction/shooter game.

Halo 3's gameplay was slightly better than the previous ones, but the story sucked and it was so damn short.

Edit: It's a ****ing exaggeration, Exodus. Bane is the Sith'ari. He meets all the criteria.

Nah, the games of the MGS series, or pretty much any Japanese RPG out there is the peak in terms of storytelling and plot. Halo's ok, but there's quite simply nothing especially new or innovative about it, and absolutely no wow factor.

@Gideon


Well I'm disagreeing with everything you just said out of Stubborness and Spite anyway. Plus I've only played Halo 3 storyline. I was not amused

But Bane is the most likely candidate, at least untill Drew wankifies Revan into a God, or I get there first.

For the record, by wow factor, I most certainly was not making a reference to the failure of an rpg that is World of Warcraft. Its plotline is virtually non existent.

Originally posted by Taven
Nah, the games of the MGS series, or pretty much any Japanese RPG out there is the peak in terms of storytelling and plot. Halo's ok, but there's quite simply nothing especially new or innovative about it, and absolutely no wow factor.

I agree JRPGs usually tell a good story and the MGS series is epic. MGS4 was simply amazing in every aspect.

By "peak," Nebaris, I meant of the Halo series.

Originally posted by Gideon
By "peak," Nebaris, I meant of the Halo series.
Taven is Nebaris?

Yes.

Originally posted by Gideon
Yes.

Your right (like usual ........ ) I checked out some his early posts. Meh, welcome back Neb.

Taven been here for ages. Apparently long enough to become a 'senior member', which still confuses me. What is up with that title anyway?

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
The Master Chief only ever displays a Clint Eastwood style of personality, an almost silent character completely lacking in personality quirks.

And I agree with you on the subject of Revan. I've firmly converted to disliking the Hero worship of the faceless character, but ay least Revan has genius going for her, and that she's a philosophically thinking evil Sith character. That puts her above the Chief in my books, I hate that guy.

Halo was crap anyway.

If you were to read the books you'd disagree. Meh.

And the Chief's underrated anyway. He'd kill the best non-force sensitives (Minus GG maybe) without too much difficulty, and some of the low level FU's as well (Like Mara). Plus no no character has armor as durable as his...

Don't underestimate the foo'.

LOL.

law.Lz.

But tby the way have you read the novels Gideon?

Grievous would make the Chief cry; Mara would shut down his suit's power.

Edit: It's been a good long while, but I've read all of them bar Cole Protocol.

GG would probably make the Chief his *****. Only because of lightsabers though. Their speed (movement at least) is comparable and I believe the Chief has superior strength. As for Mara... I don't understand what you mean.

Can't recall how fast the Chief us (Kelly was the fastest of the Spartans), but General Grievous can become invisible to Obi-Wan Kenobi's eye with his movements. His armor is also comparable to a starship's in terms of durability. The Chief can't get through Grievous.

Mara would probably shutdown his suit's interface and deactivate it with the Force.

The Chief ran a kilometer in 19 seconds with a broken ankle and bullets move in slow motion to his eyes. With his reflexes he, literally, used his hand to slap an anti-armor missle fired at him by a jet fighter.

As for armor, the Chief fell out of a space ship and fell from high orbit, hit the ground, and the armor wasn't even scratched and he wasn't injured. MJOLNIR armor weighs over a thousand pounds. So, how much impact force would be created by a thousand pound object falling thousands of miles at terminal velocity? His armor also tanked two shots from a beam that put a large hole in Johnson's chest. He took two of these and his armor wasn't scratched.

When has Mara ever done that? And the suit is integrated into the Chief's brain patterns. Only he and Cortana can control it.. it's not like there's an off switch that she can just flip. And even if she could, the armor only gives him protection, it doesn't actually amp his base stats that much. SPARTAN's can, cannonically, lift multiple tons. In the second novel I beliieve he flips over a warthog with minimal effort... So minus the armor he'd be just as fast and just as strong...

And yes, I realize that those feats totally contradict the games. But, hey. Bungie says that it's because of game mechanics...

Meh, Private Church could take the Chief.

Who would in turn get destroyed by Caboose.

But... Caboose is a godly entity. So eh.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
Who would in turn get destroyed by Caboose.

Caboose would never "intentionally" kill Church.


Hell yea, Caboose is after all who Master Chief is based on.

Mara would whoop MC. Telekinesis FTW.

Chuck Norris would whoop Mara...

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Mara would whoop MC. Telekinesis FTW. \

LulZ, because she does that every force sensitive that attacks her.

Oh wait. Oh shi-

No. MC's armor >>> the concussive force of hitting the eath at terminal velocity from thousands of miles up.

Thus, MC's armor >>> the concussive force of any pure force attack any force user can do.

He'd speed blitz her though so it wouldn't matter.

Not "I attained the inertia of a black hole" Luke or "I moved a moon" Darth Bane.

The upper tiers of Force usage are absolutely ridiculous.

EDIT: LULZ at the thought of a Jedi getting speed blitzed.

That's not necessarily what I was referring to. ermm

edit- Though I wonder, Luke and Bane have these abilities... so why is any fight tough for them? If you can force push someone with enough power to nudge a moon, why not just obliterate every enemy?

that thought has puzzled me for a long time...

Personally, I think the idea of the Sith'ari is a dumb thing that they introduced into the Star Wars mythos...

I don't...

I meant Mara could easily lift him up into the air and simply chuck her saber at him. Mc has no way of blocking it and would lose his head. Heck If any jedi actually used their power's intelligently i'd say that she could just F-crush his heart, but sadly that isn't the case.
And I lol at the idea of a speed blitz too.

MC gets owned by any jedi above the rank of padawan.

At the risk of pissing people off, I agree.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
I meant Mara could easily lift him up into the air and simply chuck her saber at him. Mc has no way of blocking it and would lose his head. Heck If any jedi actually used their power's intelligently i'd say that she could just F-crush his heart, but sadly that isn't the case.
And I lol at the idea of a speed blitz too.

As I said,




And again, if she does that he can like.. you know, shoot her. Force grip his weapons? That'd be funny. She's not strong enough in the force to take a weapon that's being gripped by thousands of pounds of force. She lifts him he shoots her in the face.

And he's at least twice as fast she is, and one punch will kill her. The fact that Clones and people like Boba Fett and Greivous have stood up to and defeated jedi throws your whole point out the window.

Also, you''d have to prove that Mara is strong enough in the force to lift and hold a thousand pounds, more then a thousand pounds since the weigtht of MJOLNIR armor can be adjusted via a single thought by the user so that a SPARTAN doesn't sink in water if he/she doesn't want to. Mara's never displayed such strength in the force. Ever.

Padawan level. LolZ. If all of the clone troopers in RotS had been outfitted in MJOLNIR armor and had undergone the proper genetic epxerimentation, they would have sacked the jedi temple with half the casualties, at least. Even if Mace and Yoda had been there... that result wouldn't have changed.

Two words- PIS and conservation. To conserve force energy in a real life situation is a big thing, if you exaust yourself you're dead if there's more then one. Plus these things take time and these tactics are rather extreme for an ordinary NFS. The Master Chief is a foe to warrent this tactic. Although all things considered, she could probably just run up to him and slice him in half. There's nothing much he can do to stop her.



Or she could like... point his arm away. And even if that wouldn't work (Super-strength I'm betting) she could just side step and then throw. If she's too close for that then she could jsut have sliced him at the start. Too far for that and I don't see why she couldn't dodge. She does have precog remember.



Prove please.



Even if he is faster ( I doubt it will be 'twice as fast) he still wouldn't be able to touch her. Precog remember.



Surprise and sheer weight of numbers.



That I know of Fetts only ever fought one jedi directly and that's Jaina. Karen Traviss was writing. It wasn't a fair fight.



Greivous is special.



I don't know about a thousand pounds but in Alliegance she lifts a 'thick and heavily armoured' section of wall about the size of a crouched human for a good minute. A rough estimate would put this section of wall betwen 200-400 pounds.

She then has 40 years of growth and practice.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Two words- PIS and conservation. To conserve force energy in a real life situation is a big thing, if you exaust yourself you're dead if there's more then one. Plus these things take time and these tactics are rather extreme for an ordinary NFS. The Master Chief is a foe to warrent this tactic. Although all things considered, she could probably just run up to him and slice him in half. There's nothing much he can do to stop her.

lol. Unless she moves faster than bullets, nah.





Side-step bullets? When has she ever done that? If she was that fast she wouldn't need to use her lightsaber to fight one-on-one opponens. Feats please.

And the Chief's an expert marksmen with faster then bullet reflexes and enough strength to lift 122 THOUSAND pounds of steel. She'd be too busy concentrating on simply keeping him still to side-step bullets AND keep him from moving AND throw her lightsaber with enough force to do any actual damage, considering lightsabers have no kinetic weight and thus one strike would only be enough to deactivate the shield not pierce him, unless there was driving force behind it. Again, provide feats that would support such amazing force mastery.

One stab won't kill the Chief anyway. MJOLNIR armor contains biofoam, which plugs up holes and wounds and provides special nutrients to keep the body alive. A person with biofoam
injected in their bodies can fight normally even when severely damaged. MJOLNIR injects biofoam directly into wherever the wound is. A marine in the The Flood had his stomach exploded by needler rounds and he lived because of biofoam... So, assuming that everything you say is correct, she tosses her saber at the Chief and it goes right through him... then what? She's defenseless and he's stll ready to go.



Bullets move in slow motion to John, and he ran a kilometer in 19 seconds with a broken ankle, this is before he gained the Mark VI which increases a SPARTAN's speed and mobility. What's Mara's best speed feat?



And precog has failed to save Jedi from fighting opponents who were just as fast or actually slower.




I'm not talking about Order 66 specifically. And John is many, many times faster, stronger, and more skilled than any clone. He's worth many of them.




Jango killed one of Doku's apprentices by himself and killed multiple jedi knights by himself in clsoe quarters combat. He was unarmed. Boba fought Vader, though I dunno if that's canon.




Nice argument.

As I proved the page before, John's superior to the General in almost every aspect.




First off, you know that random assumptions/guesses don't fly in a debate. And that's all this is. Second off, I disagree. A "heavily armored" object only about two feet in height would weigh about a hundered to a hundred and fifty pounds unless it was made out of the most super-esque dense steel ever, which you'd have to prove. Third, force growth is not linear like that, and it depends on the person's strength in the force naturally. Feats please.

Holy Crap! Blax is good at this!

haermm

Where do you think Gideon learned his talents? I'm just old, is all.

I don't know, how fast are blaster bolts? And by simple ABC logic, Mara was able to keep up (i.e. not get blitzed) by Caedus who was in turn able to keep up with Luke who was able to move so fast he seemed to have 20 arms at once. And even if there were special influence on that feat, as I recall there being, his power through battle meld shouldn't have been amped by that much without sucking Jaina and Jacen dry.



Y'know the whole batting bolts aside, plus it would help to know exactly where the bullets will be coming with decent enough speed. Heck with just the first alot of people have dodged bullets e.g. Batman etc etc.



She doesn't have to, just keep him in one place. He can't exactly wriggle out of an invisible, intangible force gripping him around the waist (where Jedi usually grip). If she does as much as walk behind him theres jack he can do, other than fire blindly over his shoulder.



There is. It's called the force.



She calls it back and this time it cuts off his head. If that doesn't work she just repeats untill the Chief simply can't live. Probably wouldn't take that long.



As I've said keeping up with Caedus and dodging lightning, aimed at her by C'baoth.



Everyone makes mistakes. That and PIS, I blame PIS.



Substantiate how good the jedi were. Perhaps they were merely the discendents of Johun. Other then that I can only blame luck, skill and brains. The only Jedi i've seen him kill is that one he threw snow at. And that random guy it the phallic shaped head in AOTC.
Anyway, I fail to see how this affect's this fight in the slightest.



I know, I spent alot of time and hardwork on that argument . I'm its daddy



Damn, its too early for maths. The wall was most likely made out of durasteel, the most common substance in the SWverse and generally multi-purpose produce. Wookieepedia says 'Durasteel was an incredibly strong and versatile metal alloy, created from carvanium, lommite, carbon, meleenium, neutronium, and zersium. It was capable of withstanding blistering heat, frigid cold, and monumental physical stress, even when very thin. ' That last bit indicate that it would probably be extremely dense.
I can't be bothered to do anything else and I don't know enough about Mara too detail her rise in power, so I'll probably just surrender the point to you.

Well at this point... most of your argument hinged on that point... so yeah.



Originally posted by Darth Exodus
I don't know, how fast are blaster bolts? And by simple ABC logic, Mara was able to keep up (i.e. not get blitzed) by Caedus who was in turn able to keep up with Luke who was able to move so fast he seemed to have 20 arms at once. And even if there were special influence on that feat, as I recall there being, his power through battle meld shouldn't have been amped by that much without sucking Jaina and Jacen dry.

I don't have to lecutre you on ABC logic. Suffice to say, was it stated that Luke was moving as fast as he was against the Vong? At that point in time he was doing the whole "embodiment of the force thing", "Luke merged with the Force to such a degree that the Jedi Master did not seem to be there, physically or as an individual personality." It's not like that's his fighting speed in general.




There's a difference between moving your entire body and your wrists... almost every time we see Jedi fight their actual body movements are near regular but they're hand movements with their lightsabers are quick... the only exceptions being Luke, Sideous, and Yoda, all of which are leagues above Mara in force ability.

Again, if she could do that then she wouldn't need a lightsaber in a one on on situation.




Nonsensical abc argument and sith lightning in general isn't that fast. Certainly not faster than bullets.

And besides, your whole point is incorrect because Mara can't keep up with Caeudus. The only reason she did well against him was because she prepared for the fight before hand. In a straight up fight with no prep time Cauedus would kick her ass. He's a stronger fighter than her in almost every way except for brains.



Not gonna fly. There's been far too many occurrences of force users in established canon having trouble against non force users to just pass all of it off as PIS. You've got Mandalorians, Greivous, the Fetts, clones, droids like the magna gaurds, etc.



It shows that force users can't effortlessly kill any non-force user, like you seem to think they could.


So at the end, the thought process saying Mara can just hold Chief in place, despite never doing that to anyone, has in any case been conceeded. That means she'll have to fight for real, and the chances of her landing not one, but two strikes on him with her lightsaber before he can hit her once and kill her instantly, is extremely low, considering he's much stronger than her, much more durable, and is much faster. The only proof to the contrary being a fallacious ABC argument.

Also keep in mind that if Mara were to strike with her lightsaber and the Chief were to raise his hand up to bat it away... the force created by his hand hitting the blade would swat the lightsaber hundreds of feet away, or at worse break her arm? And any part of her body that he touches will pretty much cave in and be crumpled?

Um, what? Needless to say, this has crap-all to do with Star Wars...