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We have this thread with Kisame, and it made me wonder how formidable people around here, view him. What is your take on his bout with Kakashi?

Just for kicks, how do you rank him alongside the other notable Jounin?

Well before the Time-Skip he was up there with Kakashi, Asuma, and Gai. After that three years they probably jumped a lot higher while him being dead and all kept him unable to get stronger. So he's weaker than them but probably still higher than most of the Rookie 9, and Gai's team. Discounting Narutp and Sasuke who have passed Kakashi.

Originally posted by olympian
We have this thread with Kisame, and it made me wonder how formidable people around here, view him. What is your take on his bout with Kakashi?

Just for kicks, how do you rank him alongside the other notable Jounin? well for starters, he is one of the best swordsman in the naruto world and is notorious for killing without hesitation or remorse, he just matched up with the wrong guy in his manga/television debut.

Even by today's standards he is still very strong, stronger than most of the Rookie 9 and Gai's team, he is not as strong comparatively to Kakashi, what-with getting the Mangekyo and all, but I would place him around Asuma level.

He was fairly strong, still would be stronger than Kakashi, and was fast, nearly as fast or as fast as Kakashi.

He was a powerful swordsman, and possessed several powerful Water Jutsu, and could do hand seals incredibly quickly, shown by his ability to use the Water Dragon jutsu thingy in a few seconds, when that jutsu requires the single greatest amount of hand-signs in the Naruto universe, 42.

A skill which to date he is unrivaled in is the art of Silent Assassination, he can track opponents by sound, and kill silently, and could do it in the middle of battle with his Hidden Mist Jutsu.

Also, just more food for thought, apparently, since Haku was "more powerful" than Zabuza, people assumed Zabuza was weak, however, from what I hear that is not correct, originally, he only said in some ways Haku is more dangerous than him, but I still need to confirm that.

Zabuza was a powerful Jounin, possibly even S rank, so yeah, he is still strong by Naruto standards, he just got screwed over and had to fight Kakashi soon after his first appearance and did so early in the series.

Good info, here.

I assume that Haku "was more powerful" in the jutsu department. One of his main advantages in the Narutoverse is how he doesnt require both hands to perform handsigns.

I place Zab as elite Jounin overall, but not exactly S-rank. Kisame adressed to him as a "kid", with in my mind speaks cleary about the difference in power and rank between the two.

Hes there with Kakashi, Asuma and Gai, tho. Not S-rank, but potentially close, if using his main techniques.

Zabuza pretty strong. Just kakashi was a bad match. Zabuza fails at speed in which he lacks according to stats. And within todays Ninja world if your slow your dead unless you have an amazing defense. But I think he would give Asuma a run for his money. Other than that He isnt doing mucn

Originally posted by olympian
Good info, here.

I assume that Haku "was more powerful" in the jutsu department. One of his main advantages in the Narutoverse is how he doesnt require both hands to perform handsigns.

I place Zab as elite Jounin overall, but not exactly S-rank. Kisame adressed to him as a "kid", with in my mind speaks cleary about the difference in power and rank between the two.

Hes there with Kakashi, Asuma and Gai, tho. Not S-rank, but potentially close, if using his main techniques. Well Haku was deadly in terms of a few things, his accuracy with Senbon is to date unrivaled as far as ranged weaponry goes, his Crystal Ice Mirrors were cheap as hell, he possessed a KG that allowed him to use ice jutsu, and he was fairly skilled in all other ninja arts. And yeah, that one handed hand-sign shit is still unique to him.

Yeah I would agree, although to be fair, even by S Rank standards Kisame is prolly very strong.

Kakashi was just the absolute worst Jounin from Konoha he could have faced honestly.

And nah, Zabuza is not slow, he is fairly fast, nearly as fast as Kakashi.

Actually DB stats stated kakashi was much faster. At the end of the battle Kakashi was speed blitzing Zabuza when he got serious.

never mind....i was mistaken.....but yeah i guess zabuza just got the short end of the stick

You mean when Zabuza was weakened from lacerations across his entire body?

And the stats are consistently full of bullshit and hyperbole that is not present in the manga.

And I thought Kakashi was ranked like a 9, and Zabuza an 8?

Didn't the mist suddenly disappear also when Kakashi began whooping up on him with his sharingan out?

Anyways it's what Zabuza gets for being the first villain worth anything. He and Haku could have went far had Haku not been so against killing, and the sharingan wasn't so hax.

Zabuza lacked speed according to the stats? Maybe you have read something different from what I read. According to the official stats both Zabuza and Kakashi were a 8 in speed when they met. Rock Lee with his leg weights removed was a 8 in speed. Zabuza was a 8 in strength and Kakashi was a 7, Itachi and Sasuku post time Skip was only about a 6 or 7. The only thing Zabuza lacked at the time he fought Kakashi was Genjutsu.

People always bring up Kisame calling Zabuza a kid proves how much moer powerful he was than Zabuza. Give me a break, was Zabuza there when he called him a kid? He called a person was dead a kid so big deal. The funny thing is 3 or 4 years after Zabuza died the only thing Kisame was better at was chakra supply and Strength. Kisame had 4 years to get better not to mention he hangs around with Itach all the time and according to Zabuza pre time skip stats and Kisame post time skip stats Zabuza is as good or better at everything besides the 2 things I mentioned.

Zabuza and Haku were only ment to make Kakashi, Naruto and Sasuke look good. If either of them would of fought a character who wasn't one of the main characters on Naruto they would of won.

Kisame was beating on Gai, who is an equal or near equal to Kakashi, and was doing so to his whole team...At 30% Chakra.

Zabuza was around Kakashi-lite, but lost due to a lack of versatility.

Kisame is at least as fast as Zabuza.

He is at least 3 times as strong.

He has a sword that eats chakra.

He can create his own water, a feat that has only ever been performed by him and the Second Hokage. Also, he created a lake by barfing.

His jutsus are at least equal, probably more powerful, his Shark Missiles and what-not are t3h shiznit.

He is not as good at Taijutsu, Kisame was beating on Gai. Who is like the Taijutsu God of Naruto.

Zabuza is good, very good, but not as good as Kisame.

Kisame is probably the strongest 7 swordsmen, so I don't think that he has a problem with Zabuza. I don't really think any of Zabuza's jutsu's will work on Kisame.

Likely not, since Kisame also domains over water jutsu, and he is more powerful to begin with.

I really dont know if going by the Databooks is accurate. Its perfectly capable of being the author`s intent to show the potential, rather than the actual levels, but in the last DB (the third, to date), both Kakashi and Asuma`s total count are considerable ahead of both Gai and Kurenai.

Well Gai is pretty one-dimensional, however his skill in what he is good at is much greater than the others.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
You mean when Zabuza was weakened from lacerations across his entire body?

And the stats are consistently full of bullshit and hyperbole that is not present in the manga.

And I thought Kakashi was ranked like a 9, and Zabuza an 8?

so far they have been quite represenative

No.

They haven't.