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X-Men/Avengers: Thor, Sentry, Hulk (WWH), Iceman, and Vulcan

vs

Justice League: Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern (Hal), Flash (Wally), and Martian Manhunter

Team 2

Wich Iceman and does Vulcan would have control on Hal's ring?

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Team 2





Yeah right.

The Justice League win

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Wich Iceman and does Vulcan would have control on Hal's ring?

It's probably too powerful, Havok was able to overload and injure Vulcan. Doesn't really matter, don't see anyone matching Flash's speed (or Superman's tbh)

Edit: There's only one Iceman

Team 1 of course thor and sentry including hulk could take them out alone in my glorious opinion XD

Bobby steals Wally's speed.

Marvel wins.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Bobby steals Wally's speed.

Marvel wins.

You meant it the other way round surely.

Originally posted by The Pict
You meant it the other way round surely.

Nope.


...He can actually do it. I wasn't joking (this time.)

i don't see iceman being that effective, considering mm could just turn his mind to jelly at the start...

tis as likely as any other outcome, imo...

Originally posted by Raoul
i don't see iceman being that effective, considering mm could just turn his mind to jelly at the start...

tis as likely as any other outcome, imo... couldn't vulcan do the same to the dc team?

Originally posted by Starscream M
couldn't vulcan do the same to the dc team?

not really.

Originally posted by Raoul
i don't see iceman being that effective, considering mm could just turn his mind to jelly at the start...

tis as likely as any other outcome, imo...

Vulcan can psionically block others' abilities. Including J'onn's. His ability to manipulate energy is limitless, so he can screw with Hal's ring and constructs as well. And hey - if he gets some cover (say, from WWH or Thor) he can also control metal, which means Wonder Woman is going to be SOL too.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Vulcan can psionically block others' abilities. Including J'onn's. His ability to manipulate energy is limitless, so he can screw with Hal's ring and constructs as well. And hey - if he gets some cover (say, from WWH or Thor) he can also control metal, which means Wonder Woman is going to be SOL too.

vulcan did it to rachel and scott, but j'onn and superman is a WHOLE other ball game...

Hmm, you should maybe add Juggernaut to team 1

But that would make it spite.

Originally posted by Bada's Palin
Hmm, you should maybe add Juggernaut to team 1

But that would make it spite. god you're just annoying as the real Palin

Wally can just stop everyone in their tracks and blitz them before they can blink.
IMO the outcome here is determined by speed, DC have it. Marvel don't.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Vulcan can psionically block others' abilities. Including J'onn's. His ability to manipulate energy is limitless, so he can screw with Hal's ring and constructs as well. And hey - if he gets some cover (say, from WWH or Thor) he can also control metal, which means Wonder Woman is going to be SOL too.

It's not limitless, he's been overpowered before. Will post the scan in a minute.

Originally posted by Raoul
vulcan did it to rachel and scott, but j'onn and superman is a WHOLE other ball game...

I didn't say anything about Superman. But Rachel has part of the Phoenix Force and is a very talented telepath. Especially during RAFOTSE & Emperor Vulcan. And Vulcan is described as "beyond Omega" as a mutant. His abilities don't have a limit. If he can shut off Rachel's telepathy, he can shut off J'onn's.

Originally posted by Raoul
vulcan did it to rachel and scott, but j'onn and superman is a WHOLE other ball game...



Plus Vulcan couldn't handle Havok's power output, hows he gonna deal with HV as hot as stars?

Originally posted by Starscream M
god you're just annoying as the real Palin

And I'm even more durable than Galactus.

Originally posted by The Pict
It's not limitless, he's been overpowered before. Will post the scan in a minute.

You don't need to. I have Vulcans appearances. Havok was amped by a star, they have similar energy powers (and are brothers), and Vulcan was attempting to block it, not steer it around him like he's done to Cyclopes.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I didn't say anything about Superman. But Rachel has part of the Phoenix Force and is a very talented telepath. Especially during RAFOTSE & Emperor Vulcan. And Vulcan is described as "beyond Omega" as a mutant. His abilities don't have a limit. If he can shut off Rachel's telepathy, he can shut off J'onn's.

i was using clark as an example.

emma beat down rachel singlehanded, and rachel has always been more about power than actual skill, even now...

put her up against j'onn, and i'm not sure she can do the business...

beyond omega means unlimited potential, not unlimited power.

Originally posted by Enyalus
You don't need to. I have Vulcans appearances. Havok was amped by a star, they have similar energy powers (and are brothers), and Vulcan was attempting to block it, not steer it around him like he's done to Cyclopes.

vulcan isn't immune to his brother's powers...

Originally posted by The Pict


Plus Vulcan couldn't handle Havok's power output, hows he gonna deal with HV as hot as stars?

Havok was amped by a star. Obviously its comparable.

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/7908/xmenev5dcp0015gs2.jpg
http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/xmenev5dcp0015gs2.jpg/1/w1272.png

Originally posted by Enyalus
You don't need to. I have Vulcans appearances. Havok was amped by a star, they have similar energy powers (and are brothers), and Vulcan was attempting to block it, not steer it around him like he's done to Cyclopes.

Too late forgetu

Originally posted by Raoul
put her up against j'onn, and i'm not sure she can do the business...


I agree. J'onn has the power and control. Thankfully Rachel isn't in this fight.

The rest, I already know.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I agree. J'onn has the power and control. Thankfully Rachel isn't in this fight.

The rest, I already know.

then...?

oh, right, vulcan...

Originally posted by Enyalus
Havok was amped by a star. Obviously its comparable.

Are you sure? I don't recall that, they were too busy fighting off the Elder at the time and I can't remember Havok getting a major power-up during.

WWH solos

Originally posted by Silent Guardian
WWH solos

I hope that was a joke

iirc, vulcan's ability to suppress powers was limited only to mutants... none of the dc team fit that criteria, imo...

Originally posted by Raoul
iirc, vulcan's ability to suppress powers was limited only to mutants... none of the dc team fit that criteria, imo...

Good point. He couldn't just instinctively know how to suppress MM's powers, or disconnect Wally from the Speed-Force for example.

Not that it really matters because Flash will still blitz them all IMO

Originally posted by Raoul
then...?

oh, right, vulcan...

You didn't really refute anything I said. Vulcan's potential with respect to his abilities are unlimited. He can control magnetism and radiation on the electromagnetic spectrum, can absorb and manipulate energy, and supress others' abilities psionically. As for his energy absorption and supression, he was able to do so against The Eldest, who was being amped by his entire race.



And yeah, Pict - Vulcan kicked Havok's ass prior to that and was blasted out of the space ship. They were in a star field...and when Havok comes back, he says he got a boost. He was amped.

Originally posted by The Pict
Good point. He couldn't just instinctively know how to suppress MM's powers, or disconnect Wally from the Speed-Force for example.

No, he couldn't disconnect Wally from the Speed Force. But J'onn? Yeah. He's a telepath. Vulcan knows it. What's the problem?

Originally posted by Enyalus
No, he couldn't disconnect Wally from the Speed Force. But J'onn? Yeah. He's a telepath. Vulcan knows it. What's the problem?

that vulcan's ability to suppress powers is limited to mutants?

i'm pretty sure it is anyways... mhmm

Originally posted by Enyalus
You didn't really refute anything I said.

i didn't claim to refute anything.

Originally posted by Raoul
that vulcan's ability to suppress powers is limited to mutants?

i'm pretty sure it is anyways... mhmm

No biased claims. Prove it or drop it.



Originally posted by Raoul
i didn't claim to refute anything.

You said 'then...?' like you were waiting for something. I was kinda lost as to what you wanted from me, lol.

Originally posted by Enyalus
No biased claims. Prove it or drop it.

how am i biased? i love the x-men...

the onus isn't on me to prove he can't, it's on you to prove he can...

though i just checked UXN, and they said he can suppress mutant powers, though they didn't say anything about non mutants, and if i was going to trust anyone other than my memory, it'd be them...

it also begs the question as to why he didn't supress the powers of the imperial guard or that eldest guy...



i was confused for a sec, and i had to go back and check where the whole rachel thing had come from...

Originally posted by Enyalus
You didn't really refute anything I said. Vulcan's potential with respect to his abilities are unlimited. He can control magnetism and radiation on the electromagnetic spectrum, can absorb and manipulate energy, and supress others' abilities psionically. As for his energy absorption and supression, he was able to do so against The Eldest, who was being amped by his entire race.



And yeah, Pict - Vulcan kicked Havok's ass prior to that and was blasted out of the space ship. They were in a star field...and when Havok comes back, he says he got a boost. He was amped.

The Elder was being amped by the few brothers around him. The rest were fighting the Shi'ar. And he didn't absorb that energy at all,he just cut the Elder off from it.

When was he boosted? Seriously? When he was ready to kill Vulcan (after giving him an ass kicking) he has to give up because Polaris was threatened. I can't remember himbeing boosted at all.

Originally posted by Raoul
how am i biased? i love the x-men...

the onus isn't on me to prove he can't, it's on you to prove he can...

though i just checked UXN, and they said he can suppress mutant powers, though they didn't say anything about non mutants, and if i was going to trust anyone other than my memory, it'd be them...

it also begs the question as to why he didn't supress the powers of the imperial guard or that eldest guy...

Wait wait wait, you're the one asserting blindly that his supression ability only works on mutants, and I'm the one who has to prove you wrong? Doesn't sound quite right.


And he did cut off The Eldest from his power.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Wait wait wait, you're the one asserting blindly that his supression ability only works on mutants, and I'm the one who has to prove you wrong? Doesn't sound quite right.

no, i said i think it didn't...

i was talking about proving it would work on j'onn...

nothing blind about it, imo...



hmm, i need to go recheck that comic... any chance you have it to hand?

Originally posted by Raoul
no, i said i think it didn't...

i was talking about proving it would work on j'onn...

nothing blind about it, imo...



hmm, i need to go recheck that comic... any chance you have it to hand?

Gimme a few.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Gimme a few.

no problem...

He cuts the Elder off in issue 4. It's after they defeat the first Elder and a second takes his place. Havok suggests that the kneeling brothers are directing all their energy to one individual.

Originally posted by The Pict
He cuts the Elder off in issue 4. It's after they defeat the first Elder and a second takes his place. Havok suggests that the kneeling brothers are directing all their energy to one individual.

If you have the issue then I suggest you stop spinning things.

Right here, upper left corner dialogue box is Havok speaking. This is just after he's blasted Vulcan into the wall after Vulcan thought he was dead:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Vulcan4.jpg
Proof that he was amped by a star (or several of them, considering there were 13 in that star field.)

The Eldest is amped by his entire species:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Vulcan1.jpghttp://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Vulcan3.jpg
I think there's a few more areas where that is mentioned, as well.

And Vulcan supresses all of that power:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Vulcan2.jpg


Ta da.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Proof that he was amped by a star (or several of them, considering there were 13 in that star field.)

i never said he wasn't, just that vulcan isn't immune to his brothers powers the way scott would be...



i don't dispute that...



hmm...

Originally posted by Raoul
i never said he wasn't, just that vulcan isn't immune to his brothers powers the way scott would be...

Clearly he isn't immune. He was injured by him, afterall.


And yeah, sorry for not clarifying. Part of that was in response to you, part was in response to Pict, who said it was only those nearby who were amping the Eldest.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Clearly he isn't immune. He was injured by him, afterall.

lol, yup...

Originally posted by Enyalus
If you have the issue then I suggest you stop spinning things.

Right here, upper left corner dialogue box is Havok speaking. This is just after he's blasted Vulcan into the wall after Vulcan thought he was dead:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Vulcan4.jpg
Proof that he was amped by a star (or several of them, considering there were 13 in that star field.)

I'm hardly spinning things. First I asked when he was amped by the star, I didn't say he wasn't. I specifically said at least twice I didn't remember when it happened.

Besides okay he got amped by a Star but we don't know how much power he gained or what his energy output was upped by. Do you think he's releasing star level energy time? I don't, but Superman can, or higher. I think your bigging up that feat/scene by Vulcan (and I dunno why because he couldn't manipulate Havok's energy shows as it messed him up and he was about to be killed)

Originally posted by Enyalus
The Eldest is amped by his entire species:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Vulcan1.jpghttp://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Vulcan3.jpg
I think there's a few more areas where that is mentioned, as well.



It doesn't actually specify how many of the species amp his power. Vulcan comes closest when he says maybe his entire species.

Not that any of this matters, Flash still blitzes him.

the problem, as i see it, is that even if vulcan shuts down j'onn's TP, that still leaves any one of Superman, Wally, Hal or Diana that could put him down pretty quickly imo...

iceman, for all his power, is still bound by the fact that he's normal human when it comes to thought processing speed...

thor and hulk are obviously going to be the big guns for team marvel, and sentry's been getting a bad rap lately, but the JLA'ers have got the best flash, the best gl (at least imo), Manhunter, Wonder Woman, and Superman.

if the marvel team was changed, maybe they'd have more of a chance, imo...

I was going to say Marvel but than I saw Flash and Martian Manhunter and they definitely flip the scales

team 1 takes this

Originally posted by The Pict
Not that any of this matters, Flash still blitzes him.

Not when Iceman draws all of the kinetic energy out of Flash's body and freezes him in place. Or, hell, ices the ground and watches Wally slip and slide. It's happened before.

Originally posted by Raoul
iceman, for all his power, is still bound by the fact that he's normal human when it comes to thought processing speed...

Iceman is probably the only one on the Marvel team that can instantly effect his opponents(Flash Freeze). The only one in this fight that would be able to operate FASTER than thought is Flash, HOWEVER we all know that his initial attack wouldnt be speed stealing. That alone would give Iceman time to at least process his attack before making it.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Iceman is probably the only one on the Marvel team that can instantly effect his opponents(Flash Freeze). The only one in this fight that would be able to operate FASTER than thought is Flash, HOWEVER we all know that his initial attack wouldnt be speed stealing. That alone would give Iceman time to at least process his attack before making it.

superman, wonder woman, and even j'onn can all operate faster than the speed of human thought...

Bobby isn't human!

Originally posted by Mindset
Bobby isn't human!

his reflexes are.

Originally posted by Raoul
his reflexes are.

And you can prove that, right?

Bobby's a mutant. Why would he have human reflexes?

Prove it!~

Originally posted by Raoul
his reflexes are.

Silly Paul.

Remember the Stacy X period in uncanny x-men? Around Black Tom and Juggernaut's reappearance.

Nightcrawler stops by for a chat with Bobby and Bobby is watching two ice figures fight, when it turns out that he's creating, destroying and recreating them so fast that it actually looks like they're moving. That's pretty impressive imo.

Originally posted by Enyalus
And you can prove that, right?

Bobby's a mutant. Why would he have human reflexes?

why wouldnt he unless it was otherwise stated? mutants start off as humans, unless its part of their mutation that they gain speed or reflexes, then they're human level...

Originally posted by Bada's Palin
Silly Paul.

Remember the Stacy X period in uncanny x-men? Around Black Tom and Juggernaut's reappearance.

Nightcrawler stops by for a chat with Bobby and Bobby is watching two ice figures fight, when it turns out that he's creating, destroying and recreating them so fast that it actually looks like they're moving. That's pretty impressive imo.

that was always more control than speed, imo...

Originally posted by Raoul
why wouldnt he unless it was otherwise stated? mutants start off as humans, unless its part of their mutation that they gain speed or reflexes, then they're human level...

that was always more control than speed, imo...

He still did it incredibly fast.

And he was watching it happen, Nightcrawler couldn't tell that they weren't moving.

Originally posted by Bada's Palin
He still did it incredibly fast.

And he was watching it happen, Nightcrawler couldn't tell that they weren't moving.

but they were moving...

Originally posted by Raoul
but they were moving...

Not really.

Iceman were creating and destroying them over and over in different positions.

Originally posted by Bada's Palin
Not really.

Iceman were creating and destroying them over and over in different positions.

yes, but nightcrawler thought they were moving...

its a control and speed feat, it was pretty impressive even though they were miniature models

Originally posted by Sin I AM
its a control and speed feat, it was pretty impressive even though they were miniature models

i wouldn't argue with that, but what i'd say is that it's only fast in comparison to normal human speeds, not the superhuman flash or superman speeds...

true, it all depends on what bobby does first since flash isn't speed stealing from jump

Couldn't Bobby do the same thing Captain Cold does to slow Flash down?

Originally posted by Raoul
i wouldn't argue with that, but what i'd say is that it's only fast in comparison to normal human speeds, not the superhuman flash or superman speeds...
I know it's not Supes's or Flash's level, but it's a far cry from "human" reactions IMO. Think about it, in movies the proper rate to simulate movement is 24 frames/sec, if Bobby was creating and destroying the figures on a molecular level at that rate it's pretty impressive even by the standards of High Meta level heroes(barring Northstar and Aurora anyway).

Originally posted by darthgoober
I know it's not Supes's or Flash's level, but it's a far cry from "human" reactions IMO. Think about it, in movies the proper rate to simulate movement is 24 frames/sec, if Bobby was creating and destroying the figures on a molecular level at that rate it's pretty impressive even by the standards of High Meta level heroes(barring Northstar and Aurora anyway).

i'd just wonder how fast a human without speed could do the same thing...

i mean, its not like bobby is moving his hands to perform the operation as much as it is his mind doing the majority of the work, imo...

i know its not you, but on the boards there seems to be this perception that normal human refexes are somehow slow or something, when they aren't actually that bad... look at how many heroes have purely human reflexes and can still pull off insane stuff speed wise...

has he done anything impressive since messiah complex

The League takes it. Thor and Hulk can only do so much

Originally posted by Raoul
i wouldn't argue with that, but what i'd say is that it's only fast in comparison to normal human speeds, not the superhuman flash or superman speeds...

Of course not.

I don't think it would really make a difference when fighting people who have top-notch speed, I just wanted to point out that Iceman is probably above regular humans.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
has he done anything impressive since messiah complex

he's been slapped around by a b*tch by mystique. a lot.

Originally posted by Bada's Palin
Of course not.

I don't think it would really make a difference when fighting people who have top-notch speed, I just wanted to point out that Iceman is probably above regular humans.

even if he is, i don't think it's by a huge gap...

now that you mention it weren't those models mimicking fighting at the same time?
I know drake can create dupes i wonder how much concentration it would require to make full size models

But as far as speed im assuming its only slightly enhanced, similar to his strength while in organic ice form

Originally posted by Raoul
i wouldn't argue with that, but what i'd say is that it's only fast in comparison to normal human speeds, not the superhuman flash or superman speeds...

Wally's 'speed of thought' is the speed of sound. Straight from his own thoughts (in a narration panel) in Flash #207 or 208.

Originally posted by Raoul
he's been slapped around by a b*tch by mystique. a lot.

Didn't read the last Manifest Destiny?

There is nothing DC chaaracters can do to Iceman unless MM uses TP to control him or something then againI am unsure if that will work since ICeman can inhabit any for of water/moisture so what would MM attack exactly? Also Flash could throw iceman into the speed force but even then Bobby might be able to escape that since he doesn't really need his body..

On the other hand Bobby won't be able to do that much damage against DC but since he is essentially immortal I vote for Team one after a long long long battle.

So team 1 wins because Bobby is immortal?

Team 1 gets the maojority, theres nothing that they could do to bobby and as long as the opposing team possess blood bobbie is able to damage them. Bobbie is basically unstoppable and there is nothing that dc could do to him. Then you add thor who IS the most powerful and packs the hardest hit in this battle along with vulcan who is second to being the most versatile on battle on the battle field along with wwh who is the strongest by far in this battle along with being the most durable and could basically repeat what konvikt did but better.

MM could mindrape Iceman easily.

Originally posted by Bada's Palin
MM could mindrape Iceman easily.

'Til Vulcan shuts off his powers.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Wally's 'speed of thought' is the speed of sound. Straight from his own thoughts (in a narration panel) in Flash #207 or 208.

yet he can think and react at the speed of light...

Originally posted by Mindset
Didn't read the last Manifest Destiny?

where he ran away?

Originally posted by Enyalus
'Til Vulcan shuts off his powers.

and then what?

Originally posted by Raoul
yet he can think and react at the speed of light... tis true?
Wally has to be a big jobber though when zoom appeared i don't understand why needed kinetic energy from all the Flashes to get from 0 to light speed instantly.

League in a stomp.

Originally posted by Raoul
yet he can think and react at the speed of light...



where he ran away?



Ran away?

He saved a guy from explosives...

Mystique couldn't even hurt him.

Originally posted by kgkg
tis true?
Wally has to be a big jobber though when zoom appeared i don't understand why needed kinetic energy from all the Flashes to get from 0 to light speed instantly.

it was more keeping up with zoom, iirc, that the boost was for...

Originally posted by Mindset
Ran away?

He saved a guy from explosives...

Mystique couldn't even hurt him.

yes, he saved the guy, but he didn't take down mystique...

Originally posted by Raoul




yes, he saved the guy, but he didn't take down mystique... He didn't take her down because after he saved the guy she ran away...

Originally posted by Raoul
yet he can think and react at the speed of light...

He's stated flat out that he can't go from zero to mach 8 instantly, especially when turning, etc. Why would he be able to reach light speed instantly? And reacting and thinking at light speed are two different things. He's said he thinks at the speed of sound at least twice.

Also, the Zoom/Flash fight you were mentioning where he had Jay and Bart's speed - they were going 2000 miles per second. Not anywhere close to light speed.

Originally posted by Enyalus
He's stated flat out that he can't go from zero to mach 8 instantly, especially when turning, etc. Why would he be able to reach light speed instantly? And reacting and thinking at light speed are two different things. He's said he thinks at the speed of sound at least twice.

Also, the Zoom/Flash fight you were mentioning where he had Jay and Bart's speed - they were going 2000 miles per second. Not anywhere close to light speed. you have to react faster than you can move...or else you'd be dead

Originally posted by Lord Feron
There is nothing DC chaaracters can do to Iceman unless MM uses TP to control him or something then againI am unsure if that will work since ICeman can inhabit any for of water/moisture so what would MM attack exactly? Also Flash could throw iceman into the speed force but even then Bobby might be able to escape that since he doesn't really need his body..

On the other hand Bobby won't be able to do that much damage against DC but since he is essentially immortal I vote for Team one after a long long long battle.

Srry doube post once again, just thought that post is terribly bad.

Originally posted by Starscream M
you have to react faster than you can move...or else you'd be dead

You didn't explain that very well, so I don't understand what you're trying to say.

The point is you can react much faster than you can think. If you had to register everything you do, you'd be dead. Anyone who's ever played sports knows this.

Well regardless, the league takes this. Thor can't hold his entire team and many of the members can either be oneshotted or removed from the battleground.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Well regardless, the league takes this. Thor can't hold his entire team and many of the members can either be oneshotted or removed from the battleground. The only one that might be oneshotted is Vulcan.

Iceman,sentry and WWH would"nt even factor in.

Sure.

Iceman can"t be onedhotted....new low for you.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Iceman can"t be onedhotted....new low for you.

Care to name anyone who has one-shotted Iceman after his upgrade?

This upgrade makes him on par with this team....WW oneshots him.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Iceman can"t be onedhotted....new low for you. Well my low would be your high, so I'd be fine with that.

Seeing as you don't actually read comics, I'll let you in on a little secret, Iceman can reform his body.

Omg isn't that great!

Originally posted by The Great Galen
This upgrade makes him on par with this team....WW oneshots him.

Not when she's getting her ass tossed around by Vulcan.

Originally posted by Mindset
Well my low would be your high, so I'd be fine with that.

Seeing as you don't actually read comics, I'll let you in on a little secret, Iceman can reform his body.

Omg isn't that great!

Srry I forgot, he would easily be able to take a shot form a peak herald like Supes or Jordan my bad. Althought then again I am debating agaisnt the most credible poster on KMC.......

Originally posted by Enyalus
Not when she's getting her ass tossed around by Vulcan.

Well then again u think mags can beat supes and that SS can beat Supes 1M so....

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Srry I forgot, he would easily be able to take a shot form a peak herald like Supes or Jordan my bad. Are you illiterate?

Srry ur the one claiming Bobby can't be oneshotted so....

I'll take that as a yes.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Well then again u think mags can beat supes and that SS can beat Supes 1M so....

Guess what Diana wears? Metal. Guess what Vulcan can control? Metal. Shut up.

Guess what Vulvan isn't as fast as her, guess what she can lasso him. To date has anyone manipulated WW's braclet....umm no but I guess its suddenly valid for some reason.

I love you Galen

Gud stuf

Iceman can beat peak heralds u know.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Guess what Vulvan isn't as fast as her, guess what she can lasso him. To date has anyone manipulated WW's braclet....umm no but I guess its suddenly valid for some reason.

Bracelets, tiara, earrings, part of her clothes...need I go on? And they start what, half a kilometer apart? Do the math.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Iceman can beat peak heralds u know. Iceman beat Oblivion.

Look him up.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Bracelets, tiara, earrings, part of her clothes...need I go on? And they start what, half a kilometer apart? Do the math.

She's faster then him, she can lasso him or tiara him in the gut.....seriously the magnetism thing is getting old.

Originally posted by Mindset
Iceman beat Oblivion.

Look him up.

Which means he can beat this team...wow ABC logic FTW.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Which means he can beat this team...wow ABC logic FTW. I don't want to be mean, but you're an idiot.

Where in that post did you see use that of proof as him beating anyone, that was in reply to the post you made...

So why can't he be onshotted is what im asking...stop dancing around the issue.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
She's faster then him, she can lasso him or tiara him in the gut.....seriously the magnetism thing is getting old.

Your idiocy is getting old, too. What do you not get about .5 km apart? Lasso him my ass. She gets anywhere near him and he's tossing her aside like a child.

Based on what, because we all know he can fight as fast as her right and we all know a lasso wouldn't work because....

Originally posted by The Great Galen
So why can't he be onshotted is what im asking...stop dancing around the issue. facepalm

How am I dancing around the issue, I gave you a reason at the top of this page, my god...

HE CAN REFORM HIS BODY

Got it now?

Originally posted by The Great Galen
So why can't he be onshotted is what im asking...stop dancing around the issue.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Based on what, because we all know he can fight as fast as her right and we all know a lasso wouldn't work because....

Lemme break it down real slow like for you - She comes within 50 ft of him and she gets pinned to the ground because of all the metal she's wearing and the fact he can manipulate it. And if she attempts to lasso him farther out than that, obviously he's fast enough to react to it and dodge. He can also pause time and control the earth to throw up a barricade if necessary.

Originally posted by Mindset
facepalm

How am I dancing around the issue, I gave you a reason at the top of this page, my god...

HE CAN REFORM HIS BODY

Got it now?

And?

Originally posted by The Great Galen
And?

Originally posted by Enyalus
Lemme break it down real slow like for you - She comes within 50 ft of him and she gets pinned to the ground because of all the metal she's wearing and the fact he can manipulate it. And if she attempts to lasso him farther out than that, obviously he's fast enough to react to it and dodge. He can also pause time and control the earth to throw up a barricade if necessary.

So his combat speed is=WW suddenly...so what else do u have in ur bag of bullshit.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
So his combat speed is=WW suddenly...so what else do u have in ur bag of bullshit.

I said he can dodge a lasso being tossed from 50 ft away.

Learn to read. Thanks.

So she can't easily gap the distance cause it isn't like she hasn't kept up with flash on foot or even entered the speedforce under her own power....

Originally posted by The Great Galen
So she can't easily gap the distance cause it isn't like she hasn't kept up with flash on foot or even entered the speedforce under her own power....

You realize Vulcan isn't slow? And that DC characters aren't the only ones with superspeed?

Originally posted by Enyalus
You realize Vulcan isn't slow? And that DC characters aren't the only ones with superspeed? reported for racism

Originally posted by Enyalus
You realize Vulcan isn't slow? And that DC characters aren't the only ones with superspeed?

DC generally depicts more then just travel speed and understands the concept of combat speed...you know like DBZ.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
DC generally depicts more then just travel speed and understands the concept of combat speed...you know like DBZ. insert facepalm

Originally posted by Mindset
He didn't take her down because after he saved the guy she ran away...

excuses.

Originally posted by Enyalus
He's stated flat out that he can't go from zero to mach 8 instantly, especially when turning, etc. Why would he be able to reach light speed instantly? And reacting and thinking at light speed are two different things. He's said he thinks at the speed of sound at least twice.

Also, the Zoom/Flash fight you were mentioning where he had Jay and Bart's speed - they were going 2000 miles per second. Not anywhere close to light speed.

i never said he could go from 0 to light speed instantly.

2000 miles per second? i'll need to re-check that issue, unless you happen to have the scan...

Originally posted by The Great Galen
This upgrade makes him on par with this team....WW oneshots him.

wonder woman is NOT one shotting iceman unless she has some magical spell to do so...

DC = DBZ? WTF!? NO!

Originally posted by Raoul
i never said he could go from 0 to light speed instantly.

2000 miles per second? i'll need to re-check that issue, unless you happen to have the scan...

Hm. It says 1000 miles with every punch. Maybe I'm thinking of the Bart/Zoom fight. Not positive. I'll sort through it tomorrow night.

Oh. A small correct on my part. When Wally was amped with Jay & Bart's speed he actually could go from zero to light speed instantly. However, without it (in issue 207), he mentions going about mach 8 instantly and him being lucky to break the sound barrier while turning and whatnot.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Hm. It says 1000 miles with every punch. Maybe I'm thinking of the Bart/Zoom fight. Not positive. I'll sort through it tomorrow night.

Oh. A small correct on my part. When Wally was amped with Jay & Bart's speed he actually could go from zero to light speed instantly. However, without it (in issue 207), he mentions going about mach 8 instantly and him being lucky to break the sound barrier while turning and whatnot.

then how does he have all those other feats that contradict the sound barrier being his reflex limit?

iirc, its actually contradicted in that arc (assuming you're right), when clark is chasing him... even if they are going at 2000 mps (which is the bare minimum, and isnt the actual speed imo), they are running through cities, that in itself requires turning and dodging and so on...

Originally posted by Raoul
then how does he have all those other feats that contradict the sound barrier being his reflex limit?

iirc, its actually contradicted in that arc (assuming you're right), when clark is chasing him... even if they are going at 2000 mps (which is the bare minimum, and isnt the actual speed imo), they are running through cities, that in itself requires turning and dodging and so on...

The 2000 mps feat was when Supes was chasing him, not during the Zoom fight. My bad:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Flash209011.jpg

And one of the instances (there are several) where he says he thinks at the speed of sound:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Fflash20705.jpg

Originally posted by Zack Fair
DC = DBZ? WTF!? NO!

Just that DC generallly portrays combat speed in that fashion.

Originally posted by Raoul
excuses.



i never said he could go from 0 to light speed instantly.

2000 miles per second? i'll need to re-check that issue, unless you happen to have the scan...



wonder woman is NOT one shotting iceman unless she has some magical spell to do so...

I dont consider iceman peak herald.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
I dont consider iceman peak herald. facepalm

What does that have to do with anything?

lulz

Since when can't someone liek WW oneshot him lol.

Sweet Jesus...

Red Hulk....seriously dude just stop.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Red Hulk....seriously dude just stop. Stop what?

Are you seriously unsure of why WW can't one-shot Iceman... because if that is the case, you've ignored the answer to the question twice.
It's because he can reform his body, and if she shattered his body, he would reform the damage.

As well as you don't have to be a peak herald to take one shot from WW.

So he is=to her then...****ing bias piece of Quan.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
So he is=to her then...****ing bias piece of Quan.

What are you talking about?

Iceman is equal to WW because she can't one-shot him?

Galen do you have a form a mental retardation?

I'm not even trying to insult you, I just want to understand how your brain works.

Originally posted by Mindset
Galen do you have a form a mental retardation?

I'm not even trying to insult you, I just want to understand how your brain works.

That's quite apparent.

Originally posted by batdude123
That's quite apparent. Well I didn't ask him if he was your twin, that would've been an insult.