Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

both at thier peaks
sabers
force
all out

So far, it just seems that Krayt created the sith with the purpose of him forever being the leader, and thereby initiating sith that are weaker than himself. While he's shown some considerable pwnage abilities by Legacy standards, there are plenty of people who are above him. While his knowledge is definitely superior to that of Marek's, Marek's raw force potency is ridiculous. Tough call though.

Galen, at least in the second two categories. The duel is a toss-up IMO, but someone who's read the novel may be able to shed some light on Marek's swordsmanship.

I would give the saber duel to Krayt due to the fact that he was a very impressive saber combatant during the Clone Wars, and he's had an extra 100 years to improve and refine his techniques. The problem with Galen winning the force duel is force knowledge and experience. Force potency can only take you so far and again, Krayt has shitloads of sith scrolls, holocrons, and 100+ years on Marek.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I would give the saber duel to Krayt due to the fact that he was a very impressive saber combatant during the Clone Wars, and he's had an extra 100 years to improve and refine his techniques. The problem with Galen winning the force duel is force knowledge and experience. Force potency can only take you so far and again, Krayt has shitloads of sith scrolls, holocrons, and 100+ years on Marek. He also has 100+ years and all those scrolls etc. on Vader and Caedus. Could he beat them?

u should use Yoda's new format cuz it makes things clearer..

hmm idk. since I don't really know much about krayt, I can't say much. but I think Galen will win. What techniques does Krayt have/use that Galen can't counter? and about the knowledge thing. How much has he learned since idk um when Anakin told him about his slaughter of the Tuskins on Tatoonine? I kno he went to korriban but i don't have the details on that. I know that he defeated Cade who was able to defeat talon and nihil. so Krayt must be pretty powerful.

Vader? Yes. The difference between Caedus and Marek is that Marek learned from Vader and it's very unlikely Vader knew some obscure technique that Krayt didn't. Caedus on the other hand, had the most broad, most obscure techniques in the star wars mythos. For instance, look at what Seff Heffin did in the new MF novel. Both Leia and Luke state that power is unnatural and he shouldn't have been able to do it, and from the way it was described, it seemed something Caedus learned from the Aing-Tii. Furthermore, Caedus is "a scion of Skywalker and Solo blood", if that means anything to you. But Caedus' techniques and years spent using the force, which was longer than Marek, would give him a win.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Vader? Yes. The difference between Caedus and Marek is that Marek learned from Vader and it's very unlikely Vader knew some obscure technique that Krayt didn't. Caedus on the other hand, had the most broad, most obscure techniques in the star wars mythos. For instance, look at what Seff Heffin did in the new MF novel. Both Leia and Luke state that power is unnatural and he shouldn't have been able to do it, and from the way it was described, it seemed something Caedus learned from the Aing-Tii. Furthermore, Caedus is "a scion of Skywalker and Solo blood", if that means anything to you. But Caedus' techniques and years spent using the force, which was longer than Marek, would give him a win.

wait... I thought we were talking about Starkiller vs. Krayt? not
Caedus

EDIT: sry nvm i didn't see the previous post

No, he didn't.

Originally posted by Gideon
No, he didn't.

While Palpatine had more techniques than anyone in the SW mythos, Jacen learned a lot on his 5 year sabbatical that Palpatine was unaware of, such as the flow walk. Hell, whatever it is Seff Heffin did that resembled an Aing Tii technique, as well. I doubt you're going to hide behind the "Palpatine knew everything" quote, so what is the argument?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I would give the saber duel to Krayt due to the fact that he was a very impressive saber combatant during the Clone Wars, and he's had an extra 100 years to improve and refine his techniques. The problem with Galen winning the force duel is force knowledge and experience. Force potency can only take you so far and again, Krayt has shitloads of sith scrolls, holocrons, and 100+ years on Marek.


that assumes that every year you get the same amount of increase in skill, if that were the case yoda who had 800 years as a jedi should have creamed the 60 or 70 year old palpatine but they dueled on even footing

Well, it seems that Palpatine's force potential exceeded Yoda's. And while Yoda had 800 years of training, Palpatine's training and force knowledge/mastery exceeded anybody in the entire Star Wars mythos. Besides politics, all Palpatine did was study the force in every aspect so his knowledge in 60 years would have been enormous. I think it's a little different for Marek who studied for maybe 10 years under Vader, against Krayt who studied for a hell of a lot longer under the guidance of ancient sith lord, holocrons, scrolls, etc. In most cases, Force Knowledge=Force Power.

I do believe Krayt had more knowledge than Marek, but Marek had such raw power and mastery in what he knew.

I say Marek wins. He beat Darth Vader, who also had more knowledge than him.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I do believe Krayt had more knowledge than Marek, but Marek had such raw power and mastery in what he knew.

I say Marek wins. He beat Darth Vader, who also had more knowledge than him.

And Krayt would own Vader. What is your point?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I think it's a little different for Marek who studied for maybe 10 years under Vader,Marek's study under Vader wasn't scholarly, so there's no way of comparing to Krayt's. The former spent every day from early childhood being abused, hardened, and nearly killed. He was like an experiement to Vader, and that is evident in his blatant disregard for anything remotely subtle.

Those ancient Sith Lords thought of him as a joke, and apparently even their holocrons' gatekeepers had power enough to incapacitate him within his own armor.

Prove it. He may have a wider knowledge base and more techniques at his disposal, but Vader has by far the greater showings in both lightsaber ability and raw power. I see him throwing Krayt around like a toy.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
While Palpatine had more techniques than anyone in the SW mythos,

Yep.



Prove it.







Relevance? Is Seff Heffin Darth Caedus?



Hide? I don't need to hide behind anything. Palpatine is the most knowledgeable Force user in the mythos, by far, period. There is no argument. Caedus had a broad swath of knowledge, but no evidence suggests that it surpasses Luke's or Yoda's -- much less Palpatine's.

@ Faunus is completely correct, btw.

Whoa whoa tag teamed. Alright give me some time, have the LSATS tomorrow morning.

Originally posted by Gideon
@ Faunus is completely correct, btw. Duh.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
And Krayt would own Vader. What is your point?

What makes you think that? Krayt has done NOTHING so far that would put him on Vader's level. NOTHING.

Originally posted by Faunus
Galen, at least in the second two categories. The duel is a toss-up IMO, but someone who's read the novel may be able to shed some light on Marek's swordsmanship.

I've read the novel and Galen is a great swordsman.

SPOILERS!








He beats Rahm Kota, Maris Brood and Darth Vader in swordplay. PROXY, using the skills of Obi-Wan, Anakin, Qui-Gon and Darth Maul, is beaten each time. He also holds his own against Shaak Ti in a duel.

Galen has other victories but those were achieved primarily through Force powers.

Here's a theory for you. In The Unifying Force, Jacen tapped into the raw Force. What if Galen managed to tap into the raw Force? Galen is strong in the Force - strong enough to defeat those Force users as chilled monkey pointed out. But he forgot to add Vader who other than Sidious was the most powerful Sith. If Galen tapped into the raw power as Jacen did in the The Unifying Force, Galen could possibly defeat any Jedi and Sith alike. Note the word possibly.

Galen was trained by Vader, but Vader underestimated his Force potential when he "unleashed" him. Galen was like Mara when she was the Emperors Hand - living a life of violence. Where Mara was a true assasin, Galen at the time was Starkiller - a wrecking ball of the Force who really abused it. He had complete disregard for life until after Vader betrayed him.

Just a few mentions on Krayt and his sources of knowledge:

IIRC, the one holocron that actually helped him out was an ancient Sith from before "Sith Lords" were even what we recognize them as. She was literally a "Lord of the Sith" in the sense that she ruled over the relatively primitive (Powerful, but primitive) Sith species. Either way, the Sith Lords since were likely far more powerful and knowledgeable.

That single Sith aside, most of the other Sith holocrons didn't seem too interested in helping him. Bane and the Sith whose name I can never seem to remember basically called him a fool and taunted him, while Nihilus basically just cussed him out in that strange language of his. And what his little minions say about needing to find another way to save him implies that even if he did have other holocrons at his disposal, they were either unable (Implying a lack of knowledge regarding what was needed) or unwilling to help him.


So honestly, I'd say that Galen takes this with relative ease. Krayt has more years under his belt, but he's weaker in terms of raw Force power, and most of his more "hands on" sources of knowledge regarding the dark side and the Sith, such as the holocrons, don't seem very helpful where he's concerned.

Originally posted by VinCon01
Just a few mentions on Krayt and his sources of knowledge:

IIRC, the one holocron that actually helped him out was an ancient Sith from before "Sith Lords" were even what we recognize them as. She was literally a "Lord of the Sith" in the sense that she ruled over the relatively primitive (Powerful, but primitive) Sith species. Either way, the Sith Lords since were likely far more powerful and knowledgeable.
Xoxaan. We all know.



Relative ease? Very unlikely. He for sure has a lot more raw power than Krayt but Krayt's had 100+ years of training. There won't be anything easy about this fight.

c

Darth Sexy - I don't think that Krayt had the same affinity or mastery of the Force as Galen. Galen was incredibly strong in the Force and according to Gideon, Galen was very skilled in Force mastery. Not sure about Krayt's mastery, but Galen would take this - his lightsaber skills may not be up there with the Masters, but he is at least their equal in Force potential. After all, this is the guy who beat Vader in lightsaber and Force.

Galen utterly destroys Krayt. I don't see how it could possibly even be close.

100+ years of training, yes. But most of his "official" training was as a Jedi, while the majority of his training as a Sith was personal or at the hands of a holocron gatekeeper who died off before the Sith Order really became the dangerous organization that we recognize and associate with people like Palpatine, Bane, Maul, Exar Kun, Ragnos, etc, etc.

Training for a long time has limited use if the quality of the training is poor. And while I have little doubt that his training as a Jedi was good enough, I have my doubts about his training as a Sith. But then, I'm hardly an expert when it comes to Krayt, so I may be mistaken on the details of his training.

Saber duel would probably go to Krayt. He's got the Vonduun Crab armour, and appears to be pretty able on top of that (single handily slaughtering an entire group of Force Sensitive Imperial Knights in moments).

Originally posted by Darth Luna
Saber duel would probably go to Krayt. He's got the Vonduun Crab armour, and appears to be pretty able on top of that (single handily slaughtering an entire group of Force Sensitive Imperial Knights in moments). I forgot abut his armor. Galen was no prodigy with the blade as far as I know.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I forgot abut his armor. Galen was no prodigy with the blade as far as I know.

The only thing that really gaged Galen's ability with a blade was his duel with Shaak Ti, in which he acknowledges he was on the verge of losing.

But Eskimo, he overpowered Shaak Ti with the Force. How would Krayt react when Galen was getting his ass kicked in lightsaber, but Galen "uleashed" his strength in the Force - his ability to tap into the raw untamed Force? I don't think Krayt would stand a chance.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
But Eskimo, he overpowered Shaak Ti with the Force. How would Krayt react when Galen was getting his ass kicked in lightsaber, but Galen "uleashed" his strength in the Force - his ability to tap into the raw untamed Force? I don't think Krayt would stand a chance.

I never said he didn't, I was just stating that in a pure lightsaber duel he would most likely lose.

Originally posted by TheEskimo
The only thing that really gaged Galen's ability with a blade was his duel with Shaak Ti, in which he acknowledges he was on the verge of losing.

well i defeated her in lik 5 min...


i kno its all gameplay so don't bi*ch about it ok?

True, but all Force adepts, Sith and Jedi alike both use the Force in combat. It's not pure swordsmanship, if Galen knows he's no match with a lightsaber, than he will switch to his superior Force mastery and become what Vader taught him - a wrecking ball of the Force.

Galen was an unorthodox Jedi. Schooled in the ways of the dark, but found his way to the light. Many say he wasn't a "badass" Jedi but was when he was known as Starkiller. But it was Galen, not Starkiller who defeated Vader. He overpowered Vader in both Force and lightsaber - not an easy task wouldn't you agree?

I concur with darth truculent

Originally posted by Darth Truculent


Galen was an unorthodox Jedi. Schooled in the ways of the dark, but found his way to the light. Many say he wasn't a "badass" Jedi but was when he was known as Starkiller. But it was Galen, not Starkiller who defeated Vader. He overpowered Vader in both Force and lightsaber - not an easy task wouldn't you agree? Wtf are you talking about? He never defeated vader in a saber duel, he only defeated vader via the force.

See both game and book.

Right. And the book mentions him throwing several pillars and at the same time attacking him with his lightsaber, so how does that exactly mean he "beat" vader in a saber duel if he is using a combination of attacks? Hell the novel already made it clear galen couldn't overpower vader's lightsaber defences.

Nice try being a smartass hun.

I've seen all but maybe one of the versions, and Galen isn't exceptionally "awesome" in any of them.

- Xbox 360: They don't start using lightsabers until after Galen collapses a bunch of large pipes/containers on Vader, severely injuring him in the process. And even then, Vader deflects most of his strikes. Galen then finishes him through the Force.

- PSP: They duel with sabers for a moment, then Galen throws Vader a few times with the Force. The next part of the gameplay battle begins. When the next finisher scene begins, Galen doesn't use his saber at all, and proceeds to electrocute Vader.

- PS2: Same as the PSP version.

- PS3: Same as the Xbox 360 version.

- Novel: They have a brutal saber duel, with both of them struggling and Vader gaining a slight edge, and then Starkiller starts using the Force and still struggles to come out on top.

The one with the most saber use is the novel, and Galen still ends up falling back on the Force to win when he can't overcome him with a lightsaber...And in the novel, even then it's relatively close. And pretty much all of these versions involve Vader tossing Galen around earlier in the fight.

Vin & Dorian you raise good points, but Vader underestimated Galen. He probably again I state probably expected him to fight like a Jedi. But Galen fought him the way Vader trained him - a weapon of the Force. Galen may have been at a disadvantage in the beginning, but Gideon taught me that Force mastery is stronger than a high midichlorian count. Galen used that in his saber duel with Vader and when the support beams were torn down and Galen, crushed Vader with them, guess what - the lightsaber duel swung in Galen's favor.

Why do I state that? The saber duel swung in Galen's favor - he rolled Vader's wrists causing the lightsaber to fly out of his hands. Galen knew how to fight - Force incorporated with saber.

The fact is galen didn't defeat vader in a strict saber duel, it was a combination of both force powers and sabers.

...Vader would likely have greater Force Mastery than Galen, and fewer midichlorians. That aside, it's not a lightsaber duel if you barely use your lightsaber, and rely almost solely on the Force. And as before, the novel illustrates that Galen was on the losing end of the majority of that battle, and just barely scraped by when he hurled an electrical generator at Vader...Which blew up in the man's face.




Um, no. He didn't use his saber to disarm Vader. The novel states, and I quote, "His lightsaber went skittering and sparking across the floor, twisted out of his grip by telekinesis." He disarmed Vader with the Force, just as he only ever gained an advantage when using the Force...And even then, he was unable to do so until the end.

Vader's midichlorian count didn't change, even after the events at Mustafar. Midichlorian counts are made per cell, and he still had "an incredibly high count" even within the suit according to the Complete Visual Dictionary.

Vin, in a close combat situation if you look closely, Galen did roll Vader's wrists and then used TK to knock it out of his hands. That's a basic swordsmanship. Galen had stronger Force mastery than Vader because his affinity to the Force increased. Galen may not have had as a high midichlorian count as Vader, but his mastery of the Force was stronger.

You stated that Vader had greater Force mastery than Galen. Then why did Vader lose to a quasi Jedi Knight? Can you explain that? Galen was able to tap the raw power of the Force. Gideon or someone else - did Anakin then Vader was able to tap the raw power? Vader let Starkiller take his own path and when he encountered his fought his old apprentice now a Jedi Knight whose real name was Galen Marek. It is obvious that Galen discovered aspects of the Force that Vader never taught him.

I do not believe that Galen had a higher midichlorian count than Vader. I know of only two - Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus and Luke. We have to wait to see how strong Ben will become. But Galen had better Force mastery.

Nowhere do I remember it stated that Solo or Skywalker having a higher count than Vader.

Originally posted by Gideon
Nowhere do I remember it stated that Solo or Skywalker having a higher count than Vader.Your grammar fails.

Originally posted by Publius II
Your grammar fails.

Yeah. I believe I've lost about a dozen IQ points; I've been sucking at Halo 3 and forming simple sentences. My logic remains impeccable, however.

Are you going to send me the Sidious and Byss argument today?

Originally posted by Gideon
I've been sucking at Halo 3

Noob

Originally posted by Gideon
Yeah. I believe I've lost about a dozen IQ points; I've been sucking at Halo 3 and forming simple sentences. My logic remains impeccable, however.Trying to do anything with the vast majority of Halo 3 players is tantamount to banging your head against a wall. I suggest you switch to CoD4.

Someday.

I'll wait for Mass Effect 2 and Battlefront III. I really hope BF3 comes out...

I posted an IGN article about BF3 in the Literature section. The version we saw in the Kotaku video will never be released, and the new developers apparently did away with the ground/orbit travel and replaced it with a cutscene.

Originally posted by Publius II
I posted an IGN article about BF3 in the Literature section. The version we saw in the Kotaku video will never be released, and the new developers apparently did away with the ground/orbit travel and replaced it with a cutscene.

Let's pop into the BF3 thread then to discuss.

Originally posted by Publius II
Trying to do anything with the vast majority of Halo 3 players is tantamount to banging your head against a wall. I suggest you switch to CoD4.

Halo 3 is far more fun than COD4.

GTFO.

You know what's more fun? Listening to lectures, followed by nsync and hilary duff.

Originally posted by Gideon
I'll wait for Mass Effect 2 and Battlefront III. I really hope BF3 comes out... When is ME 2 coming out?

Originally posted by DorianYates
When is ME 2 coming out?

No idea. I am frothing at the mouth at the mere idea. ME2 gets me aroused.

Well the good thing is that it is stated that it is under development now, the bad thing is we don't know when it comes out.

Except for the part where that never takes place in the novel, and has conflicting depictions in the games depending on the console. The novel also depicts his "Force mastery" as similar to Vader's level, as they exchange several Force-related attacks, both of them showing some difficulty repelling the other's attempts.

Galen's only real advantage in that battle was stamina. He outlasted Vader.




Because having superior abilities doesn't mean you automatically win the fight. If that were the case, Luke would have godstomped Jacen and Lumiya, Palpatine would have crushed Vader, Galen, or RotJ Luke with a maniacal giggle, and half of the non-Force Sensitives out there would be long dead rather than surviving their encounters with Force users.




I don't recall it ever being stated anywhere that Luke or Solo had higher midichlorian counts...In fact, I don't really recall them being mentioned all that often at all outside of TPM.

And again, Galen's "Force Mastery" lead to him being more or less equal to Vader, aside from having superior stamina, in the novel. And if I'm not mistaken, the novelizations of games are generally the "official" versions (Especially when the game versions conflict one another).

Originally posted by VinCon01
...Vader would likely have greater Force Mastery than Galen, and fewer midichlorians. That aside, it's not a lightsaber duel if you barely use your lightsaber, and rely almost solely on the Force. And as before, the novel illustrates that Galen was on the losing end of the majority of that battle, and just barely scraped by when he hurled an electrical generator at Vader...Which blew up in the man's face.]

Pardon?

Here is a quote:

""You are weak" the apprentice said as his former Master launched a second series of bone-crushing blows, each one of which he blocked with elegant precision.

Darth Vader fought brilliantly, never employing anything less than a killing stroke. His intention was lethal. All he needed was one slip, one tiny gap in his opponent's defences.

The apprentice vowed not to give him one. He whirled and danced around his Master's defences, testing them to their limit."

Doesn't sound like losing to me. Sounds to me like he's more than holding his own.

Originally posted by VinCon01
...Um, no. He didn't use his saber to disarm Vader. The novel states, and I quote, "His lightsaber went skittering and sparking across the floor, twisted out of his grip by telekinesis." He disarmed Vader with the Force, just as he only ever gained an advantage when using the Force...And even then, he was unable to do so until the end.

And prior to that:

""I don't hate you," the apprentice went on, blocking him blow for blow. "I pity you." With a new strength of his own, he forced Darth Vader onto his back foot."

"The lightsabres flashed again - and it was the apprentice who found the chink in the armour that both of them had been waiting for. Vader's lightsaber moved too slowly to block a blow to his chest, allowing the apprentice's blade to slash deeply across his armoured throat"

"His former Master barely blocked the blow. A second scored a deep wound across his black-clad shoulder. A third stabbed deep into his thigh.

Darth Vader reeled backwards, servos whining in his injured limbs and lightsaber shaking."

Galen wiped the floor with Vader in swordsmanship.

Thank you chilled monkey - thank you with evidence from the novel. When the Emp said to Vader "deal with the boy" that is a simple order - kill him. Instead it went the other way around. Galen used his superior Force mastery against Vader. It's kinda of funny - Vader trained Starkiller to be a wrecking ball of the Force. I don't think Vader expected Galen Marek formerly known as Starkiller to use the very same training Vader gave him.

Vader underestimated Galen and so did Palp. Palp had to be somewhat curious on how Vader's apprentice handled the "chosen one." If he wasn't, he wouldn't have offered him the job of Sith Apprentice. Maybe Palp. saw that Galen was able to tap the raw Force and could become stronger than Vader, but that's just speculation.

You're welcome.

I notice that you ignored the part shortly after the "He whirled and danced around his Master's defenses, testing them to their limits" quote.

"I understand you now," he said, still trying to goad his former master into breaking his concentration. "You killed my father and kidnapped me from Kashyyyk, not just to be your apprentice, but to be a son to you. Was that how your father treated you?"

The intensity of Darth Vader's attacks redoubled. "I have no father."

The apprentice fell back under the rain of blows. The sizzling of fabric and a faint stink of burning skin told him that at least two of Darth Vader's misses had been horribly near, but he felt no pain. He, on the other hand, had definitely struck a nerve.

And moments later...

Reaching out with his left hand, he blasted his Master with Sith lightning. That broke the momentum of the furious onslaught, enabling him to stand and catch his breath.


It's after that when Galen manages to injure Vader as in the quote you provided. Interesting how it's only after he electrocutes Vader (Something Vader is known to be weak against) that he manages to gain the upper hand in the lightsaber battle. And this is after Vader manages to strike him at least two times (Indicated by the comment that he smelled burning skin, and heard the fabric of his clothing being burned), and forces the apprentice to use the Force to break away.

Perhaps he wasn't being godstomped by Vader, but Vader held the clear advantage in the beginning, and drove Galen to using the Force to break away from the saber battle when Galen angered him.

And yet the force lightning that took down military vehicles didn't kill someone that has a weakness to it.

Originally posted by VinCon01
I notice that you ignored the part shortly after the "He whirled and danced around his Master's defenses, testing them to their limits" quote.

"I understand you now," he said, still trying to goad his former master into breaking his concentration. "You killed my father and kidnapped me from Kashyyyk, not just to be your apprentice, but to be a son to you. Was that how your father treated you?"

The intensity of Darth Vader's attacks redoubled. "I have no father."

The apprentice fell back under the rain of blows. The sizzling of fabric and a faint stink of burning skin told him that at least two of Darth Vader's misses had been horribly near, but he felt no pain. He, on the other hand, had definitely struck a nerve.

And moments later...

Reaching out with his left hand, he blasted his Master with Sith lightning. That broke the momentum of the furious onslaught, enabling him to stand and catch his breath.


It's after that when Galen manages to injure Vader as in the quote you provided. Interesting how it's only after he electrocutes Vader (Something Vader is known to be weak against) that he manages to gain the upper hand in the lightsaber battle. And this is after Vader manages to strike him at least two times (Indicated by the comment that he smelled burning skin, and heard the fabric of his clothing being burned), and forces the apprentice to use the Force to break away.

Perhaps he wasn't being godstomped by Vader, but Vader held the clear advantage in the beginning, and drove Galen to using the Force to break away from the saber battle when Galen angered him.

It is also indicated in the comment that Galen didn't feel any pain from those so-called 'strikes.' I don't consider 'strikes' that the opponent doesn't even feel to be a clear advantage.

Plus, you claimed that Galen was on the losing end throughout before disarming Vader with the Force and throwing a generator at him. Prior to that he had dealt Vader three serious blows, as opposed to Vader managing to score two (at best) grazes that didn't hinder Galen at all, or even hurt him.

Finally, prior to Vader going berserk over that 'father' line, Galen was matching him perfectly in swordplay. Again, not on the 'losing' end.

Originally posted by DorianYates
And yet the force lightning that took down military vehicles didn't kill someone that has a weakness to it.

He wasn't using two hands, and wasn't charged etc.
He also wasn't concentrating on using his full power in blasting vader, just to get him to stop his onslaught. of course he tried to use as much power as possible, but in my mind, it was like a distraction so he can catch his breath. Its also hard to use a saber and force lightning at the same time...

Originally posted by kotorfan
He wasn't using two hands, and wasn't charged etc.
He also wasn't concentrating on using his full power in blasting vader, just to get him to stop his onslaught. of course he tried to use as much power as possible, but in my mind, it was like a distraction so he can catch his breath. Its also hard to use a saber and force lightning at the same time...

Precisely, thank you. As you say yourself, that lightning was just a brief burst to distract Vader. Meaning it didn't cause him any appreciable harm, or slow him down etc at all.

Meaning that Galen then landing blows on him does not detract from Galen's sword skills in any way.

I doubt that the lightning he unleashed was to merely distract vader, if he wanted to simply distract vader why couldn't he use telekinesis which is far more effective to distract? Like using a FP or seizing a telekinetic storm to throw vader off balance.

And kotorfan, galen not using 2 hands for force lightning does not equate to it being "weak" and if that was the case any jedi weilding 2 sabers would defeat any jedi/sith wielding one.

And when was the last time you saw sidious "charge" his force lightning?

All throughout RoTS I was waiting for Sidious to plant his feet, pull his hands to his side and: Ka-me-ha...

Originally posted by DorianYates
I doubt that the lightning he unleashed was to merely distract vader, if he wanted to simply distract vader why couldn't he use telekinesis which is far more effective to distract? Like using a FP or seizing a telekinetic storm to throw vader off balance.


He was in the middle of a fight. He didn't exactly have time to think about what would be the best approach. He used lightning because it was the first thing that came to mind.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
He was in the middle of a fight. He didn't exactly have time to think about what would be the best approach. He used lightning because it was the first thing that came to mind.

Do you have any proof to that?

Bear in mind that it was unlikely that Marek was at full power. He had just fought his way through the Death Star as well as engaging in an exhausting saber duel, probably the hardest of his life. Prior to his uber-one-with-force state, he was probably nakkered.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
He was in the middle of a fight. He didn't exactly have time to think about what would be the best approach. He used lightning because it was the first thing that came to mind. I support this. Spur of the moment attack.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Do you have any proof to that?

It's called common sense. When you're fighting for your life you don't exactly have all the time in the world to calmly assess your options and pick the best one.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I support this. Spur of the moment attack.

Thank you.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
It's called common sense. When you're fighting for your life you don't exactly have all the time in the world to calmly assess your options and pick the best one.

We see Galen taken out imperial walkers and entire armies with lightning, but we are suppose to assume he used a weaker version during the hardest battle of his life?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
We see Galen taken out imperial walkers and entire armies with lightning, but we are suppose to assume he used a weaker version during the hardest battle of his life? It's perhaps because it was the hardest fight of his life that the Lightning in this instance wasn't at full strength. A fight with Vader would be exhausting, after an already extensive adventure through the Death Star. Not to mention if Galen "charges" his attack he pust himself at risk of retaliation by Vader.

It's like if you're in a fight and you get knocked to the ground. You don't have time to search around for a big rock, stand up, take aim, and throw it. You grab a fistful of sand and huck it, hoping it will distract your opponent long enough so you can regain a footing.

Galen was fighting the most powerful Sith other than Sidious and of course he would be worn out. Vader and Galen were slugging it out with everything at their disposal - lightsabers, Force and junk around them. Vader had to know at that exact moment that this kid was playing for keeps - it was no longer "training" but a fight to the death. Think of it as this - Bruce Lee vs Jet Li.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
He was in the middle of a fight. He didn't exactly have time to think about what would be the best approach. He used lightning because it was the first thing that came to mind. Thats a good rationale, but i seen the majority of force users retaliate with tk rather than lightning.

And considering mareks incredible force prowess, i doubt the lightning he unleashed even due to it being in retaliation would be nothing less than lethal.

Do you seriously think that if someone punchs me in the face, the punch that i throw back at him in retaliation would be nothing but weak? Even if i didn't use my full strength the impact is still going to cause alot of damage ESPECIALLY if i hit one of his vital points.

The same can be said for the lightning incident between marek and vader and your trying to imply that mareks lightning was weak because he didn't charge up.

And galen WAS at full power when he battled vader, him tooling imperial soldiers isn't going to drastically limit his capabilities to go all out against a very powerfukl sith lord.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
It's perhaps because it was the hardest fight of his life that the Lightning in this instance wasn't at full strength. A fight with Vader would be exhausting, after an already extensive adventure through the Death Star. Not to mention if Galen "charges" his attack he pust himself at risk of retaliation by Vader. He was drained physically. How does that affect how his lightning works? Since when does anyone charge their lightning?



except using lightning only requires extenting your arms. There is nothing to search for.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
He was drained physically. How does that affect how his lightning works? Since when does anyone charge their lightning?



except using lightning only requires extenting your arms. There is nothing to search for. Since was simply "extending your arms" the prime instigator of Force Lightning? You do remember that when someone is physically drained, that emitting tens--hundreds of thousands of volts electricity through your body at the behest of your mental willpower isn't exactly a walk in the park. It's not like turning on a light bulb. By that rationale I could say that "since when does physical exhaustion affect the way a Jedi fights? It's just the Force after all."

Granted, Marek wasn't exhausted, but dueling Darth Vader promises to be a taxing enterprise. He's not gonna spend his energy reserves in a distraction move. And Lightning would be a good distracting move. It's fast... not crippling no, but Vader would still block or dodge it.

This then refutes tha claims that vader dies to lightning of any amount easily.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Since was simply "extending your arms" the prime instigator of Force Lightning? You do remember that when someone is physically drained, that emitting tens--hundreds of thousands of volts electricity through your body at the behest of your mental willpower isn't exactly a walk in the park. It's not like turning on a light bulb. By that rationale I could say that "since when does physical exhaustion affect the way a Jedi fights? It's just the Force after all." No fighting requires pure physical energy with force aid. We see Palpatine instantly killing a jedi, taking Leia out, and mortally wounding Brand, with lightning, while he was dying. Palpatine even hints to Leia that he does not have to be physically capable to defeat them with lightning. Although the dark side was too strong with Palpatine, and was taking a toll on his clone. But that is not the case with Marek.

Are you telling me Marek was not trying to kill Vader; that he was only trying to distract him?

Dorian, Galen wasn't a maximum potential. He had barely begun to tap the immense power he wielded. When Galen struck Vader with FL think of it as a one-two punch. Galen unleashes FL and Vader is forced to block and then he has to defend himself against powerful lightsaber attacks. That is very very difficult. If Vader hadn't blocked the TK, then there is the possibilty that Vader's life support armor would suffer severe damage. Galen was more than a match for Vader.

Sidious 66, Galen had the chance to kill Vader, but the Emp offered him to take Vader job. Instead, Galen made the choice to sacrifice himself to begin the Rebellion.