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Force and Lightsaber

Maul takes both.

To be fair, we haven't seen Zannah at her peak yet...

Zannah's current incarnation loses in both. Lets see what Drew comes up with next!

Maul wins without even using his lightsaber.

This Thread has already been done.......

Originally posted by DarthCuddles
This Thread has already been done.......

Virtually every thread possible has been done.......

Hopefully Drew makes Zannah far more powerful than Maul in the third book, both in the force and with her double saber.

Originally posted by Happy_Sith
Hopefully Drew makes Zannah far more powerful than Maul in the third book, both in the force and with her double saber.

Right.

Because that's just what we need: this man to overwank a third Force user.

Plus it's impossible to outpower Darth Maul.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
Plus it's impossible to outpower Darth Maul.

I don't understand why Darth Maul is such a sensitive subject for you. His power in the Force is relatively average; it's his skill in combat that makes him so dangerous.

If it's "because Padawan-Obi-Wan managed to occupy his attention for more than five minutes," keep in mind that ESB-Luke Skywalker (whose formal training and skill is far inferior to Obi-Wan Kenobi's managed to present a formidable challenge for Darth Vader and, then, a year later, defeat him.

By comparison, Vader ****ed up as badly as Maul did against a relatively weaker opponent.

Yeah, it's close, but nobody ****ed it up as bad as Maul did. It was just so stupid it's ridiculous.

Originally posted by Cpt. Valerian
Yeah, it's close, but nobody ****ed it up as bad as Maul did. It was just so stupid it's ridiculous.

Not really.

Hell, Palpatine did it twice. Arguably, three times. Yet no one here is going to even attempt to revoke his vaunted genius status.

Cuz' nobody needs to. I'm not denying the fact that Maul is an incredibly skilled fighter, but what he did was still so, so very stupid.

Originally posted by Cpt. Valerian
Cuz' nobody needs to. I'm not denying the fact that Maul is an incredibly skilled fighter, but what he did was still so, so very stupid.

And no one denies his stupidity. But the fact of the matter remains that even the most accomplished duelists, Force users, politicians, and strategists have exhibited moments of sheer stupidity. Palpatine is no exception and his **** ups have not only cost him his life, but his precious Empire.

Too true, that. ****ing stupidities.

The music of Journey heals all wounds.

It does indeed.

Except 'Separate Ways'. mhmm

Originally posted by Cpt. Valerian
It does indeed.

Except 'Separate Ways'. mhmm

Ironically, I'm listening to the re-recording of that song now. It rocks hard.

That song is very, very good, yes. It's one of my faves from Journey.

Originally posted by Cpt. Valerian
That song is very, very good, yes. It's one of my faves from Journey.

So many to recommend and so little time. The problem is that most of Journey's casual fans get hooked on their commercially successful songs. I personally despise "Don't Stop Believin'" because it gets played to death.

Journey has some really kickass rock songs and several great ballads, but people get so fixated on the popular shit that they never look to check out the rest of their catalogue.

I haven't listened to 'Don't Stop Believin'. I enjoy 'Faithfully' and 'Lights' very much, as well.

Originally posted by Cpt. Valerian
I haven't listened to 'Don't Stop Believin'. I enjoy 'Faithfully' and 'Lights' very much, as well.

"Faithfully" is great, but there are even better power ballads. You should go on a Youtube spree; Journey's got studio versions up on there as well as live performances of various great songs.

"Lights" is one of my favorites. A beautiful guitar solo by Neal Schon.

Beautiful.

Yes, I think I will do that. If the rest of the songs are as great as the ones I've heard, it's worth it.

Here's Journey playing "Lights" with their new lead singer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k0lEvTMugk

Sounds great.

Which song do you recommend me to download? Your favourite is...?

Originally posted by Cpt. Valerian
Sounds great.

Which song do you recommend me to download? Your favourite is...?

That is extremely difficult. My personal favorite song is "If He Should Break Your Heart." It's a mid-tempo ballad with rock elements; extremely well written, featuring great lead and backing vocals, with a superb rhythm section and then a great guitar solo.

But it's my favorite only by a few hairs and is one of their more obscure and lesser known tracks.

Journey simply has too many great rockers and ballads to list a definite favorite.

Great rock tracks include:

"Edge of the Blade"
"One More"
"Message of Love" (sounds like a better version of "Separate Ways"
"Chain Reaction"
"Ask the Lonely"
"Stone In Love"
"Never Too Late" (lead vocals by drummer Deen Castronovo)
"Remember Me"
"Wheel In the Sky"
"To Be Alive Again"
"Only the Young"
"Rubicon"
"Change For the Better"
"Never Walk Away"
"Be Good To Yourself"
"I Can See It In Your Eyes"
"The Time"
"State of Grace" (really great guitar riffs)

Great ballads:

"After All These Years"
"Turn Down the World Tonight"
"All the Way"
"Walking Away From the Edge"
-->"WHY CAN'T THIS NIGHT GO ON FOREVER" (Perry's best vocal)<--

Here's "Why Can't This Night Go On Forever": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGMMXRYvzJQ

"When You Love A Woman"
-->"Easy To Fall" (six minutes of pure amazing musicianship)<--
"Winds of March" (amazing Perry vocal acrobatics)
"When I Think Of You"
"Still She Cries" (a piano solo that will make you cry)
"Kiss Me Softly" (no, that's not a proposal)
Anything off of Trial By Fire.

Mid-tempo:

"If He Should Break Your Heart"
"Forever In Blue"
"Mother, Father" (Journey's most epic song)

A lot of songs, lol, but you can't go wrong with any of these.

Originally posted by Gideon
Right.

Because that's just what we need: this man to overwank a third Force user.

Drew decides what is right. He can't make someone too powerful or too weak.

What Drew writes is all true

Originally posted by Happy_Sith
Drew decides what is right. He can't make someone too powerful or too weak.

What Drew writes is all true

That's not cute.

"Drew" is a prolific and interesting author and yet destroys all that his work could be by trying to wankify his favorite characters.

Meh. I did not think Bane was that powerful.

They made Vader too weak!

Originally posted by Happy_Sith
Meh. I did not think Bane was that powerful.

You kiddin'?

@ Gideon: That's a long list. I'll start downloading.

Good.

As I said, Journey's most popular works actually suck compared to their lesser-known songs.

Their level of musicianship and applied creativity is insane.

I can see that already.

Originally posted by Cpt. Valerian
I can see that already.

All will bow before Journey. Or they'll die.

Originally posted by Gideon
All will bow before Journey. Or they'll die.

Meh. Journey sux. Santana, Yes, Kansas, Hendrix (in any form) and even Zeppelin have 'em beat.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Meh. Journey sux. Santana, Yes, Kansas, Hendrix (in any form) and even Zeppelin have 'em beat.

No.

Schon was heavily influenced by Santana, having joined that band when he was 15-years-old by personal invitation of Carlos himself. As far as prodigious skill goes, he's leaps and bounds ahead of Santana. Their keyboardist and vocalist, Gregg Rolie, left Santana for Schon to go form Journey. Musically, in every approach, Journey outstrips Santana. Guitars, drums, bass, vocals, song writing. There is no comparison.

Yes is a great band, too. Guitar-wise, Steve Howe rivals Schon in terms of phrasing and able to showcase his dynamic skill. Still, he's no prodigy and Yes's guitar solos are lackluster in comparison in terms of melody and the ability to emote. Jon Anderson is a prolific singer, but he's no countertenor on par with Steve Perry, who -- quite simply -- is a god.

Kansas blows. Don't even remotely compare them.

Hendrix is but one man. In terms of innovation and therefore greatness, he outclasses everyone from Journey. In actual ability, he does not. Here's Hendrix's Star Spangled Banner: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_nO0F4ugss

Here's Schon's: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssFi4y8YgS4

Schon > Hendrix.

Zeppelin is serious competition. Journey has had three enormously critically acclaimed drummers (Steve Smith, Anysley Dunbar, and Deen Castronovo) who exhibit ability on par or in excess of Jon Bonham. Jimmy Page is greater and more accomplished than Schon, so I may grant that one, but present-day Page isn't good enough to clean Schon's boots. John Paul Jones is miles above Ross Valory, so Zeppelin has the advantage.

The real trick is comparing Robert Plant with Steve Perry. You could debate that for years.

Originally posted by Gideon
I don't understand why Darth Maul is such a sensitive subject for you. His power in the Force is relatively average; it's his skill in combat that makes him so dangerous.

If it's "because Padawan-Obi-Wan managed to occupy his attention for more than five minutes," keep in mind that ESB-Luke Skywalker (whose formal training and skill is far inferior to Obi-Wan Kenobi's managed to present a formidable challenge for Darth Vader and, then, a year later, defeat him.

By comparison, Vader ****ed up as badly as Maul did against a relatively weaker opponent.

It's not. It's because of "Maul ould give RotS Obi-Wan and GG a run for their money and possibly win!" lines of thinking that make me feel that he's an overrated douche bag. Plus his feats aren't as grand as some think them to be, Anoon Bondoras ass whooping a prime example.

General Grievous nearly got his ass handed to him by Kit Fisto; I think Maul could definitely provide a challenge.

General Greivous also tooled six Jedi effortlessly. outran a freakin' Republic ship and squad of special forces clones, and did give RotS Obi-Wan a run for his money, and Maul got literally floored by a pissed off Obi-Wan, context is everything.

So nah. ABC argument withstanding.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
General Greivous also tooled six Jedi effortlessly. outran a freakin' Republic ship and squad of special forces clones, and did give RotS Obi-Wan a run for his money, and Maul got literally floored by a pissed off Obi-Wan, context is everything.

So nah. ABC argument withstanding.

He didn't give Obi-Wan a run for anything, unless you're taking that in the literal sense.

He was effortlessly disarmed and then sent running. The only time where General Grievous put Kenobi in imminent danger is when it came down to a melee brawl.

Maul is "one of the deadliest" and "highest trained" Sith apprentices in history based on canon evidence. He is a master of Juyo, which means (unlike Kenobi) he is a high end master of multiple lightsaber forms, and he is an obscenely accomplished martial artist.

He could give Kenobi a run for his money. He could probably kill him. Nothing in the whole of canon contradicts that.

Or did you ignore my Vader analogy? Because one could say that if Vader was challenged by Luke circa ESB and then lost to Luke circa RotJ, I'm thinking Kenobi circa TPM would crush him.

I was talking in a literal sense.

But, seriously, you yourself argued that Obi-Wan was supposedly some avatar of the force or whatever, in some special state. Do you think that if Obi_Wan hadn't been in an enhanced state he would have ruined GG as easily as he did before? That's contradictory to what you said before in the Galen/Obi-Wan argument.

And how many omgnowayz Sith apprentices have there been to make that statement mean anything... ? Being the most dangerous retard on the planet doesn't mean much if you're skills are being compared to other retards, for example.

Maul hardly has a resume worthy of putting against the likes of RotS Kenobi. Beating a man who has literally zero feats aside from having, keyword, technical prowess with a weapon(Which by no means makes one an even average level duelist, though that's not too say Anoon wasn't), having a high knowledge of multiple lightsaber forms which gives him options but hardly matters against a man who's mastered his one form to a higher degree then, so far, anyone else in the mythos, and beating up some droids and knowing Martial arts. Intresting.

Hence abc argument withstanding, and context is eerything.

I simply relayed to you what was written by Matthew Stover in the novelization. And keep that in mind: what is so uber about Kenobi without his "embodiment of the Force"?



All Sith, at one point, were apprentices. Including Sidious.



Of course he does.



The belief that because a person has "zero feats to his/her name" he/she must be weak is logically inept. I've never been a big fan of Darth Revan or Marka Ragnos, but I've never argued that they are weak or less than because they don't have as many feats to their name as Darth Vader or Count Dooku.

Anoon Bondara is objectively confirmed by multiple sources to have an extraordinary level of skill with a lightsaber to the point that he is well admired and respected by those who do have feats to their name: Qui-Gon Jinn, for example. The same Qui-Gon who, according to TPM's novelization, is "more powerful" than Obi-Wan Kenobi, whom you claim kicked Maul's ass.



He's mastered Soresu to a degree higher than any other Soresu user we've seen. Maul is a "high end master of multiple forms" according to objective canon. The latter is far more impressive than the former.



May I remind you that according to the RotS novelization, "some droids" were stated to be "well beyond Obi-Wan's ability to defeat" even in his uber-l33t Force avatar state?

General Grievous, whom you accredit enormous skill, is also just another droid, devoid of Force energy. Yet he's a notorious Jedi killer. Droids have their own advantages; they can bring enormous skill, reflexes, strength, and speed to bear in a manner that is usually more immediate than most Jedi.

Not to mention he buzzsawed his way through Black Sun, the most powerful and dangerous crime syndicate in the galaxy.

I concede on account of being a lazy ****. I really, really don't want to get into a page long debate with you.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
I concede on account of being a lazy ****. I really, really don't want to get into a page long debate with you.

You fear my wrath, ho.

Originally posted by Gideon
May I remind you that according to the RotS novelization, "some droids" were stated to be "well beyond Obi-Wan's ability to defeat" even in his uber-l33t Force avatar state?Which is stupid, considering Kit Fisto dismantled two of them in seconds and ****ing fourteen year-old Ahsoka managed to destroy three by herself, without being in an "uber-l33t Force avatar state."

Originally posted by Faunus
Which is stupid, considering Kit Fisto dismantled two of them in seconds and ****ing fourteen year-old Ahsoka managed to destroy three by herself, without being in an "uber-l33t Force avatar state."

I'm just telling you what the novelization said. Take issue with Stover, not me.

Originally posted by Gideon
I'm just telling you what the novelization said. Take issue with Stover, not me.

the issue should be taken to CW creators since they destroy any credible the droid army ever had.

Originally posted by Faunus
Which is stupid, considering Kit Fisto dismantled two of them in seconds and ****ing fourteen year-old Ahsoka managed to destroy three by herself, without being in an "uber-l33t Force avatar state."

I don't know about the second example, but Kit had one big advantage in his fight. He fought the Magnaguards on top of a monorail. They had to magnetise their feet to avoid being blown off, which severely hindered their mobility. Kit had no such problem.

Originally posted by Gideon
I'm just telling you what the novelization said. Take issue with Stover, not me. I am taking issue with Stover, noob.

And 2008 years ago in two and a half days, your savior was born. Go pray while I reap the benefits of being a non-Christian/Jewish American: presents for Christmas and Hanukkah without any of the actual religious stuff.

Originally posted by Cpt. Valerian
You kiddin'?



Not completely. He just seemed like a guy worthy of the Dark Lord Title.

Formidable, to be sure, but I expected nothing less.

Darth Maul ftw.