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I read somewhere that Juggernaut is more durable than Galactus. So who do you think wins?

Spite.

I've always wondered if the Juggernauts damage soak could resist a blast from Galactus... I don't think he would win, but I have never seen Juggernaut defeated by a direct blast.

hmmm

ROFL

Will someone please close this? I don't feel like reading any stupid comments. Are you trying to bait Starscream?

Is this the pure durability contest ore a actual battle between the two characters?

Originally posted by Utrigita
Is this the pure durability contest ore a actual battle between the two characters?

it says vs so its a battle

Galactus one shots cain

It's just based on his opening



Since he is mentioning Durable as the reason for him even beginning this thread, I thought it a possibility that he was thinking who would win in a durabilty contest.

Either way Galactus for the win.

Lulz. He's never living that comment down. Ever.

I never ever suggested that Cain Marko could beat Galactus. People twisted my comments out of context.

I personally don't think Galactus could harm Juggernaut. But he wins by BFR.

OKay let me ask you Starscream why doesn't you think that Galactus is capable of hurting Juggernaut?

Originally posted by Utrigita
OKay let me ask you Starscream why doesn't you think that Galactus is capable of hurting Juggernaut? because I pretty much don't think any physical force could hurt him....since his invulnerability derives from a magical source

I mean classic juggernaut was the personafication of the term INVINCIBLE

he never even had a scratch...not even after taking a godblast...not even a scratch.

Originally posted by Starscream M
because I pretty much don't think any physical force could hurt him....since his invulnerability derives from a magical source

I mean classic juggernaut was the personafication of the term INVINCIBLE

he never even had a scratch...not even after taking a godblast...not even a scratch.

Galactus blast while weak greater than godblast times a trillion.

Define Physical Force, What about Transmutation, Reality Warping etc?

Okay what if I told you that Herald of Galactus has accomplished breaking the power of Cyttorak?

What Feats does the Godblast have that can compare to the level that Galactus can dish out? (Bada???)

Originally posted by Utrigita
Define Physical Force, What about Transmutation, Reality Warping etc?

physical force as in energy blasts that Galactus regularly uses when he fights

I don't count transmutation and reality warping physical attacks, but then again, its not like Galactus to try to transmute his foes or use reality warping (at least not according to most of his showings...I confess I'm not aware of all of his abilities)

but Galactus when he usually fights he resorts to energy blasts from his eyes and hands...I personally don't believe those could hurt Juggernaut

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Galactus blast while weak greater than godblast times a trillion. then I guess Thanos can withstand a trillion times powered godblast then seeing as how he survived a normal powered Galactus blasts relatively unscathed

Originally posted by Starscream M
because I pretty much don't think any physical force could hurt him....since his invulnerability derives from a magical source

I mean classic juggernaut was the personafication of the term INVINCIBLE

he never even had a scratch...not even after taking a godblast...not even a scratch.

He was also unstoppable, until he ran into Thor but then he was pushed back and BFR'd. Juggernaut's shield can't be greater than that of the deity who's fueling him. Any blast stronger than Cyttorak, would naturally go straight through any forcefield he can produce.

This much should be obvious.....

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Galactus blast while weak greater than godblast times a trillion.

Is that why 1 godblast sent him packing?

Originally posted by Starscream M
physical force as in energy blasts that Galactus regularly uses when he fights

I don't count transmutation and reality warping physical attacks, but then again, its not like Galactus to try to transmute his foes or use reality warping (at least not according to most of his showings...I confess I'm not aware of all of his abilities)

but Galactus when he usually fights he resorts to energy blasts from his eyes and hands...I personally don't believe those could hurt Juggernaut

The Blasts that can level a planet? The Blast that can beat all of Thanos shields with relative ease? Is that the blast?

That depends entirely on the foe he is facing, Terrax for instance he transmuted same with Hercules and one that I cannot remember the name of. Nova he trapped in a sphere of pure energy, and the Silver Surfer he has owned with a eyeblast, and in another scenario immobilised him with a thought nearly killing him. Doom with the Power of Galactus warped the room around him, and in another scenario stated that the power of the Cosmic Cube was but a fraction next to Galactus, and since the Cosmic Cube is mostly based on Reality Warping... Blasts is what Galactus uses when things are in his way to try and simply remove them.

The Blasts that can shatter planets raining down on Juggernaut wouldn't hurt him?

Originally posted by Starscream M
then I guess Thanos can withstand a trillion times powered godblast then seeing as how he survived a normal powered Galactus blasts relatively unscathed

Oh common please dont go with this inane line of argument again. Galactus obviouslyvaries the power of his blasts. Even hulk has survived galactus eyebeams. It doesnt mean that G cant kill hulk easily if he wants to just that at the time he decided not to blast him with anything close to his full force. An angry galactus has one shotted a watcher,hurt the inbetweener etc. Going by ur logic thanos would now be on their level. The fact is that galactus is capable of blasts that make the godblast seem like childsplay. He would EASILY destroy juggernaut if he decided that he really wanted to.

Oh and thanos wasnt unscathed, thanos strongest forcefields where destroyed as well and he almost died.

Originally posted by Bada's Palin
He was also unstoppable, until he ran into Thor but then he was pushed back and BFR'd. Juggernaut's shield can't be greater than that of the deity who's fueling him. Any blast stronger than Cyttorak, would naturally go straight through any forcefield he can produce.

This much should be obvious.....



Is that why 1 godblast sent him packing?

Note i said galactus BLAST while weak ( namely annihilation blast). I wasnt reffering to his durability.

Galactus is more durable.

I don't think Nova would be able to fly through Jugernaut's head.

Originally posted by Utrigita


The Blasts that can shatter planets raining down on Juggernaut wouldn't hurt him? no they wouldn't in the least

Beta Ray Bill or Gladiator can smash planets apart with a few hits...but they could smash on Juggernaut all day without a single scratch

that reality warping stuff is irrelevant since that is not related to durability per se...and I never claimed Juggy was immune to BFR or reality warping

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Oh common please dont go with this inane line of argument again. Galactus obviouslyvaries the power of his blasts. Even hulk has survived galactus eyebeams. It doesnt mean that G cant kill hulk easily if he wants to just that at the time he decided not to blast him with anything close to his full force. An angry galactus has one shotted a watcher,hurt the inbetweener etc. Going by ur logic thanos would now be on their level. The fact is that galactus is capable of blasts that make the godblast seem like childsplay. He would EASILY destroy juggernaut if he decided that he really wanted to.

Oh and thanos wasnt unscathed, thanos strongest forcefields where destroyed as well and he almost died. Galactus was angry at Thanos (please don't lie and say he wasn't) and he intended to kill him (Galactus said so himself).


I meant Thanos was relatively unscathed because he recovered very quickly from that blast even though initially it looked pretty bad.

Originally posted by Starscream M
no they wouldn't in the least

Beta Ray Bill or Gladiator can smash planets apart with a few hits...but they could smash on Juggernaut all day without a single scratch

that reality warping stuff is irrelevant since that is not related to durability per se...and I never claimed Juggy was immune to BFR or reality warping

Based on???

Have they ever smashed on Juggernaut?

It most certainly is, Silver Surfer has if I recall correctly resisted it, No you just if I recall correctly claim that Galactus couldn't hurt Juggernaut something that I find rather untrue based on the levels of power Galactus has portrayed.

Originally posted by Starscream M
Galactus was angry at Thanos (please don't lie and say he wasn't) and he intended to kill him (Galactus said so himself).


I meant Thanos was relatively unscathed because he recovered very quickly from that blast even though initially it looked pretty bad.

You still arent getting the point are you? The main point is that galactus didnt use near as much force as he was capable of against thanos. When galactus blasted hulk in secret wars he was trying to dispose(kill) of all the heroes who he saw as hinderances to his mission. And yet hulk survived. Why? Because galactus did NOT USE AS MUCH POWER AS HE IS CAPABLE OF USING. Weve seen the extent of galactus power in his fights against inbetweener,hyperstorm,fullpowered tyrant, and his annihilation blast which one shotted a watcher etc. Therefore if a being far far lower than these people is somehow able to withstand galactus it is obvious that he is not using his power to its full extent. Its very simple to understand.

can someone post the entire juggy/thor fight where the godblast took place please? wasn't juggernaut powered up at that time?

aside from that, the first fight between thor and juggernaut was a win for thor since he had the presence of mind to shut juggernaut off from his power by creating a vortex that blocked magic. juggy then got beat up then bfr'd.

why i brought that up was because i don't really see a problem with galactus creating a screen with a force field that does exactly the same thing.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/3500/forcefield3os1.jpg

Unless Galactus is capable of magically stripping Cain of his powers then his most powerful blast won't hurt him-the only positive effect it would have, for Galactus, would be bfr.

facepalm

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Unless Galactus is capable of magically stripping Cain of his powers then his most powerful blast won't hurt him-the only positive effect it would have, for Galactus, would be bfr.

Sorry to tell u but that is just nonsense

Isn't Galactus above Cytorak? I don't see a problem with Galactus bypassing the enchantment if he wanted to.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Sorry to tell u but that is just nonsense

Why is that nonsense?? Cain is completely invulnerable to physical force. Magic is required to hurt him-and telepathy, but you need to remove his helmet for that

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Isn't Galactus above Cytorak? I don't see a problem with Galactus bypassing the enchantment if he wanted to.

Exactly.

A blast from Galactus would simply go straight through. Juggernaut is powered by Cyttorak, CYTTORAK IS NOT STRONG ENOUGH TO STOP BLASTS FROM GALACTUS.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Why is that nonsense?? Cain is completely invulnerable to physical force. Magic is required to hurt him-and telepathy, but you need to remove his helmet for that

lulz.

I guess that's why he's been stopped a bunch of times.

Galactus would murder both Cyttorack and Juggernaut.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Isn't Galactus above Cytorak? I don't see a problem with Galactus bypassing the enchantment if he wanted to. that's another thing. galactus may very well be beyond cyttorak so the fraction of power juggernaut runs is nothing to galactus.

Originally posted by Bada's Palin



lulz.

I guess that's why he's been stopped a bunch of times. being stopped and being hurt are two completely different things. one relates to durability and one doesn't.

no one every said Juggernaut can't be stopped...he certainly can be...both physically (encased in cement) or telepathically.

however, as far as I know, classic Juggernaut has never been physically injured...not even a scratch.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
that's another thing. galactus may very well be beyond cyttorak so the fraction of power juggernaut runs is nothing to galactus. Makes sense to me.

Originally posted by Starscream M
being stopped and being hurt are two completely different things. one relates to durability and one doesn't.

no one every said Juggernaut can't be stopped...he certainly can be...both physically (encased in cement) or telepathically.

however, as far as I know, classic Juggernaut has never been physically injured...not even a scratch.

What about the time Shatterstar cut him in the eye?

Originally posted by Bada's Palin
Exactly.

A blast from Galactus would simply go straight through. Juggernaut is powered by Cyttorak, CYTTORAK IS NOT STRONG ENOUGH TO STOP BLASTS FROM GALACTUS.

this is another one of those myths that the internet perpetuates and everyone accepts as true with no shred of evidence

where was it ever stated that if you're more powerful than Cytorrak, that means you can injure Juggernaut?

One's enchantment could be vastly more powerful than the being creating that enchantment.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Why is that nonsense?? Cain is completely invulnerable to physical force. Magic is required to hurt him-and telepathy, but you need to remove his helmet for that

CAins invulnerability to physical force is limited to gthe power of his enchantment and the power of his enchantment is limited to the power of the person that enchanted him i.e Cytorrak. Cyttoraks enchantments are not infinitely powerful and this can be seen with juggernauts unstoppability enchantment being overcome by physical force before. Further galactus is >>>cyttorak so he will easily be able to overcome his enchantment.

Originally posted by Bada's Palin
What about the time Shatterstar cut him in the eye? I'd assume it was bad writing...attributing to the writer not knowing anything about Juggernaut

the writer prob assumed Juggy was invulnerable only in the armored areas...which is not true

Originally posted by ultimatethor
CAins invulnerability to physical force is limited to gthe power of his enchantment and the power of his enchantment is limited to the power of the person that enchanted him i.e Cytorrak. Cyttoraks enchantments are not infinitely powerful and this can be seen with juggernauts unstoppability enchantment being overcome by physical force before. Further galactus is >>>cyttorak so he will easily be able to overcome his enchantment. so you're telling me an enchantment cannot be more powerful than the caster of the enchantment?

Originally posted by Bada's Palin
What about the time Shatterstar cut him in the eye? that was in liefield's X-force book, he was obsessed with his characters
just like the other soon-to-be-image guys. juggernaut was i think stalemated by venom around that time also, a todd mcfarlane creation.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I'd assume it was bad writing...attributing to the writer not knowing anything about Juggernaut

the writer prob assumed Juggy was invulnerable only in the armored areas...which is not true

No, Shatterstar cut him in the eye.

Originally posted by Starscream M
this is another one of those myths that the internet perpetuates and everyone accepts as true with no shred of evidence

where was it ever stated that if you're more powerful than Cytorrak, that means you can injure Juggernaut?

One's enchantment could be vastly more powerful than the being creating that enchantment.

In all seriousness do u have any idea what u r talking about at all? Cyttorak used a fraction HIS OWN power to cast the enchantment on the stone. How in the world would the power of said enchantment be superior to that of cyttorak himself when its only a fraction of cyttoraks power that was used in creating it?

Originally posted by Starscream M
so you're telling me an enchantment cannot be more powerful than the caster of the enchantment?

the only way that is possibe is if the enchanter invokes a higher power to cast the enchantment. e.g Dr strange using the vishantis power to cast a spell.

Originally posted by Bada's Palin
No, Shatterstar cut him in the eye. supposedly it's because the sword's he uses are forged of magic and science. that didn't stop him from getting owned by wolverine in like 3 panels.

Originally posted by Bada's Palin
No, Shatterstar cut him in the eye. even though wolverine cannot lay a scratch on him...but i guess Shatterstar is special

Originally posted by Starscream M
even though wolverine cannot lay a scratch on him...but i guess Shatterstar is special

Never saw Wolverine try and stab Cain in the eyes.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
supposedly it's because the sword's he uses are forged of magic and science. that didn't stop him from getting owned by wolverine in like 3 panels.

Yup.

Originally posted by Bada's Palin
Never saw Wolverine try and stab Cain in the eyes.

why would his eyes not be invulnerable like the rest of his skin and body is?

anyways, if the sword is magical, then it is irrelevant in proving that Juggy could be physically harmed.

Originally posted by Starscream M
why would his eyes not be invulnerable like the rest of his skin and body is?

anyways, if the sword is magical, then it is irrelevant in proving that Juggy could be physically harmed.

So the times Hulk stopped him with punches? or physically pushed him back? Or the time Nightcrawler hurt him fire? lmao.

f*** it.

galactus hits him with a beam that leaves juggernaut smoking and near death. galactus then praises his durability but then hits cain with another blast that finishes him off.

No it's not if Shatterstars Sword are capable of penetrating the enchantment produced by Cyttorak, then I see absolutely no reason why Galactus that are capable of trading blasts and injuring a magical being (agamotto) isn't capable.

Added to the logic that Nova broke the Crimson Band of Cyttorak a spell supported by Cyttorak then I see no reason to say that Galactus cannot break the enchantment.

Originally posted by Bada's Palin
So the times Hulk stopped him with punches? or physically pushed him back? Or the time Nightcrawler hurt him fire? lmao. what does pushing him back or stopping him have to do with hurting him?

as I've repeated before, you can stop Juggy without being able to hurt him PHYSICALLY.

now, you could prob hurt Juggy magically or mystically since his invulnerability derives not from a physical means but rather through a magical enchantment.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
f*** it.

galactus hits him with a beam that leaves juggernaut smoking and near death. galactus then praises his durability but then hits cain with another blast that finishes him off. cosigned because I'm so fing tired of arguing this

Originally posted by Starscream M
what does pushing him back or stopping him have to do with hurting him?

as I've repeated before, you can stop Juggy without being able to hurt him PHYSICALLY.

now, you could prob hurt Juggy magically or mystically since his invulnerability derives not from a physical means but rather through a magical enchantment.

But the Hulk has physically hurt him.

You didn't even dare mention Nightcrawler.

Originally posted by Bada's Palin
But the Hulk has physically hurt him. that is just bad writing imo...if thor's godblast didn't hurt him, nothing hulk could do should hurt him

but let's just agree to disagree on this

Originally posted by Bada's Palin


You didn't even dare mention Nightcrawler. I don't want to comment on something I have never seen...and personally I don't know much about NC at all...didn't even know he had fire abilities

Originally posted by Utrigita
No it's not if Shatterstars Sword are capable of penetrating the enchantment produced by Cyttorak, then I see absolutely no reason why Galactus that are capable of trading blasts and injuring a magical being (agamotto) isn't capable.

Added to the logic that Nova broke the Crimson Band of Cyttorak a spell supported by Cyttorak then I see no reason to say that Galactus cannot break the enchantment.

Its nothing but sheer fantasy to believe that a spell cyttorak cast using a fraction of his power will hold up against a being superior to cyttorak himself.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Its nothing but sheer fantasy to believe that a spell cyttorak cast using a fraction of his power will hold up against a being superior to cyttorak himself.

Comic book stories are fantasy. And where on panel does it say Galactus overpowers Cyttorak's enchantment??

Originally posted by Bada's Palin
So the times Hulk stopped him with punches? or physically pushed him back? Or the time Nightcrawler hurt him fire? lmao.

The fire was PIS and we all know that. Fire can't hurt Cain.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
The fire was PIS and we all know that. Fire can't hurt Cain.

Too right, that was a ridiculous plot device to ensure Wolverine wasn't beaten to death by Juggs. He has taken much more powerful hits (godblast anyone) without being hurt.

Galactus wins. He would probably lose to Cyttorak, but he definitely takes Juggs.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Too right, that was a ridiculous plot device to ensure Wolverine wasn't beaten to death by Juggs. He has taken much more powerful hits (godblast anyone) without being hurt.

Not even that, too many more instances he was shown to be resistant to more intense flames.

Wait...Galactus losing to Cyttorak?

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Wait...Galactus losing to Cyttorak?

Don't ask just walk away.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
Wait...Galactus losing to Cyttorak?

yea. what is this a question, (not being smug/mean/cocky) but Cyttorak has nearly unlimited mystical power. He is up there with the strongest beings in the entire Marvel universe. Don't get me wrong Galactus is up there. but when it comes down to it, there are a few more powerful things out there than him that you do not hear about that often.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Comic book stories are fantasy. And where on panel does it say Galactus overpowers Cyttorak's enchantment??

You arent understanding me at all. Im not talking about it saying on panel that galactus overpowerd cyttoraks enchantment im saying that based on his power level he CAN do it easily. By feats galactus>>>cyttorak and its just ridiculous to thing that he cant overpower an enchantment that cyttorak used only a fraction of his power to cast ( frankly Galactus can overpower any cyttorak enchantment regardless of the power he used to cast it).

Originally posted by Silent Guardian
yea. what is this a question, (not being smug/mean/cocky) but Cyttorak has nearly unlimited mystical power. He is up there with the strongest beings in the entire Marvel universe. Don't get me wrong Galactus is up there. but when it comes down to it, there are a few more powerful things out there than him that you do not hear about that often.

By feats,comments,references status or whatever criteria u want to use Galactus>>>>>cytorrak.

isn't cytorrak just an earth demon? and galactus is a cosmic god

Originally posted by ultimatethor
You arent understanding me at all. Im not talking about it saying on panel that galactus overpowerd cyttoraks enchantment im saying that based on his power level he CAN do it easily. By feats galactus>>>cyttorak and its just ridiculous to thing that he cant overpower an enchantment that cyttorak used only a fraction of his power to cast ( frankly Galactus can overpower any cyttorak enchantment regardless of the power he used to cast it).

Why is ridiculous to suggest that Galactus can't overpower Cyttorak's enchantment. Cyttorak has a completely different type of power to Galactus. Galactus is cosmically powered and his power is more physical, whilst Cytorrak is a wholly magical entity. If Galactus blast Juggy as hard as he can, its a physical force, which Cyttorak's magic protects him from. But Shatterstar's blades can cut Cain as they were forged in a dimension of science and magic. Magic is Cain's achilles heel, like kryptonite to Superman.
You say "frankly, Galactus can overpower any Cyttorak enchantment"-but where is your proof?

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Why is ridiculous to suggest that Galactus can't overpower Cyttorak's enchantment. Cyttorak has a completely different type of power to Galactus. Galactus is cosmically powered and his power is more physical, whilst Cytorrak is a wholly magical entity. If Galactus blast Juggy as hard as he can, its a physical force, which Cyttorak's magic protects him from. But Shatterstar's blades can cut Cain as they were forged in a dimension of science and magic. Magic is Cain's achilles heel, like kryptonite to Superman.
You say "frankly, Galactus can overpower any Cyttorak enchantment"-but where is your proof?

Why you say? Because magical enchantments have been overcome by non magical force numerous times. Specifically, cyttoraks enchantments have been overcome by physical force numerous times. Juggernaut unstoppability enchantment has been overcome before and he has been stopped. cyttoraks crimson bands of cyttorak have been broken by even the likes of namor. Further, dr strange has had his spells such as the shield of seraphim destroyed by sufficient physical force. There is nothing to suggest that magical enchantments can only be overcome through magic but there is hard on panel evidence that proves just the opposite.

Galactus can overpower any cyttorak enchantment because power level wise he is superior to cyttorak and hence cttoraks enchantments will not apply to somebody that is his superior in power.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
isn't cytorrak just an earth demon? and galactus is a cosmic god

TBH just an earth demon is a little of an understatement. HE was banished from earth because he was said to be powerful enough to threaten existance and stuff like that. Basically if he was on earth right now, a lot of heroes and villains who did not follow him would be dead. However that does not put him above Galactus.

Galactus is a multiverse threat, capable of destroying all of existence. Cyttorak is only a universal at best, but without feats I would keep him at an earthly threat.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Why you say? Because magical enchantments have been overcome by non magical force numerous times. Specifically, cyttoraks enchantments have been overcome by physical force numerous times. Juggernaut unstoppability enchantment has been overcome before and he has been stopped. cyttoraks crimson bands of cyttorak have been broken by even the likes of namor. Further, dr strange has had his spells such as the shield of seraphim destroyed by sufficient physical force. There is nothing to suggest that magical enchantments can only be overcome through magic but there is hard on panel evidence that proves just the opposite.

Galactus can overpower any cyttorak enchantment because power level wise he is superior to cyttorak and hence cttoraks enchantments will not apply to somebody that is his superior in power.

Savage Hulk has broken free of the bands of Cyttorak before, but WWH, the most powerful incarnation, wasn't able to beat Cain down, and had to resort to bfr. Thor's godblast, which drove Galactus back, wasn't able to hurt Juggernaut.
If you want any info on Juggs, feel free to look at his respect thread or this link

http://www.geocities.com/cain_marko_ny/main2.html

Originally posted by BUSTER1
Savage Hulk has broken free of the bands of Cyttorak before, but WWH, the most powerful incarnation, wasn't able to beat Cain down, and had to resort to bfr. Thor's godblast, which drove Galactus back, wasn't able to hurt Juggernaut.
If you want any info on Juggs, feel free to look at his respect thread or this link

http://www.geocities.com/cain_marko_ny/main2.html

I need no info on juggernaut. Ive read a good majority of his comics. Whether savage hulk was able to beat cain down is absolutely irrlevant. The point i made was that magical enchantments (and specifically cyttoraks) CAN and have been broken by sufficient NON magical force. And that there is absolutely no basis for the belief that just because his source of durability is magical he somehow cant be affected by sufficent NON magical force. Galactus blasts are way way way way way more powerful than thors Godblast or anything WWH can dish out.

The Crimson Bands Strength is dependent on who ever created them. In other words Dr. Strange's Crimson Bands are far far weaker than if Cyttorak were to create them. And Cyttorak's hasn't been broken.

Also, there is nothing to say Cain has a limit to power. Two editors at Marvel have stated that he can draw on more/limitless power. Cyttorak has also said that he isn't the one who is limiting Cains power.

Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
The Crimson Bands Strength is dependent on who ever created them. In other words Dr. Strange's Crimson Bands are far far weaker than if Cyttorak were to create them. And Cyttorak's hasn't been broken.

Also, there is nothing to say Cain has a limit to power. On contrary to editors at Marvel have stated that he can draw on more power. Cyttorak has also said that he isn't the one who is limiting Cains power.

The point is that for the enchantment to be affected at all by non magical force proves that this whole idea of magic not being unaffected by non magic is pure fallacy.

Cain can only be as powerful as the person who empowers him cyttorak who is <<<Galactus.

Also Cain wont be suddenly drawing on more power in a forum fight when he has failed to do so during his comics.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Also Cain wont be suddenly drawing on more power in a forum fight when he has failed to do so during his comics.

Cain has mentioned that he has grown stronger before. But unlike Hulk and Thor he doesn't have the appearances or the foes to pull this on to make it a normal thing. Someone asked the editor of the 8th Day arc if Cy gave him a power up, he said, No. This is further backed up when Cy said he doesn't limit Cains power. Basically he can focus and get stronger. But Cain does not knowhow to use his powers to their full potential.

Cy's story is the same as Cain's. He doesn't have the appearances either to back up a win OR a loss against others like Galactus.

But I'm not making any claims in this fight or if Cy or Galatus would win over the other.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
I need no info on juggernaut. Ive read a good majority of his comics. Whether savage hulk was able to beat cain down is absolutely irrlevant. The point i made was that magical enchantments (and specifically cyttoraks) CAN and have been broken by sufficient NON magical force. And that there is absolutely no basis for the belief that just because his source of durability is magical he somehow cant be affected by sufficent NON magical force. Galactus blasts are way way way way way more powerful than thors Godblast or anything WWH can dish out.

My point was -in reply to your pointing out that people including Namor have broken free of Cyttorak's bands -is that just because 1 of Cytorraks enchantments can be overcome by non magical means, not all of them can. Thats why I pointed out that Savage Hulk has broken the Bands of Cyttorak before, but his most powerful incarnation, WWH, wasn't able to beat Juggrnaut, whose power comes fron another Cyttorak enchantment

Originally posted by BUSTER1
My point was -in reply to your pointing out that people including Namor have broken free of Cyttorak's bands -is that just because 1 of Cytorraks enchantments can be overcome by non magical means, not all of them can. Thats why I pointed out that Savage Hulk has broken the Bands of Cyttorak before, but his most powerful incarnation, WWH, wasn't able to beat Juggrnaut, whose power comes fron another Cyttorak enchantment

There is no difference between classic and current Juggernaut

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
There is no difference between classic and current Juggernaut

What are you talking about? I never said there was.

Originally posted by BUSTER1
What are you talking about? I never said there was.

Thought you were implying that he has a different power up.

There is no evidence to suggest, or any proof that Galactus is more powerful than Cyttorak, firstly they have never battled therefore anything besides an I don't know is heresay and speculation.

Juggernaut will not beat Galactus, but it still remains a mystery as to whether or not Galactus could hurt him with a blast, BFR until otherwise proven is the only viable win that Galactus gets here.

Am I saying Cain is more pwerful than Galactus? No.

How about this people? Both sides post scans and proof as to why they believe the other to be stronger.

wHAT DOES BFR MEAN

Battle Field Removal

Originally posted by Stoic
There is no evidence to suggest, or any proof that Galactus is more powerful than Cyttorak, firstly they have never battled therefore anything besides an I don't know is heresay and speculation.

Juggernaut will not beat Galactus, but it still remains a mystery as to whether or not Galactus could hurt him with a blast, BFR until otherwise proven is the only viable win that Galactus gets here.

Am I saying Cain is more pwerful than Galactus? No.

There is plenty of evidence to suggest that galactus is above cyttorak. He has the feats while unfortunately cyttorak doesnt. There is no speculation as to whether galactus can hurt juggernaut with a blast. For galactus to be unable to hurt juggernaut cyttorak would have to be far above galactus. We would have to assume that Galactus cannot even come close to hurting cyttorak and then assume that he is so much lower than cyttorak that he would not even be able to hurt a being empowered with only a little of cyttoraks power.

That is just ridiculous on so many levels. Galactus has been able to vaporize a watcher and they are above skyfather level and have been able to survive the destruction of galaxies and even universes. Juggernaut certainly doesnt have the feats to prove he can take that kind of power and frankly neither does Cytorrak.

All the burden of proof rests on those who believe that juggernaut cant be hurt by galactus.

Originally posted by Stoic
There is no evidence to suggest, or any proof that Galactus is more powerful than Cyttorak, firstly they have never battled therefore anything besides an I don't know is heresay and speculation.
They haven't battled but Galactus did travel through Cyttorak's realm unhindered in spite of Cyttorak trying to stop him. I'd take it as some kind of placement of power when your opponent's space ship rolls over your immobility spell.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
How about this people? Both sides post scans and proof as to why they believe the other to be stronger.

Im ready to provide scans of galactus power but i already no that no one will be able to proof of anything on cyttoraks side.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Im ready to provide scans of galactus power but i already no that no one will be able to proof of anything on cyttoraks side.

Which is my point. The only time I've ever seen him in action was when that gay aspect humanoid version of him got beat by Juggernaut himself which I still say is stupid. I love Juggernaut/Cyttorak and almost everything about Cain but he is outclassed here. True I believe that he can take a bunch of Galactus's "Away from me you petty nuisance" blast but once he does the whole "Your petty existance ends here" blast then obliteration is the only thing that I can think of.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
They haven't battled but Galactus did travel through Cyttorak's realm unhindered in spite of Cyttorak trying to stop him. I'd take it as some kind of placement of power when your opponent's space ship rolls over your immobility spell.

Really when did that happen? Are you sure your talking about Cyttorak, I'm not calling you a liar, I've just never heard of this.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
They haven't battled but Galactus did travel through Cyttorak's realm unhindered in spite of Cyttorak trying to stop him. I'd take it as some kind of placement of power when your opponent's space ship rolls over your immobility spell.

Never heard of this either but I wouldn't put it past G doing so on two occassions. 1. G has the power to do so and the CC doesn't exactly hurt people by just being in there. 2. The CC isn't really his home as much as it is his prison. He was banished there. IIRC being in the CC doesn't actually make Cain or Cyttorak more powerful. I may be wrong. I'm not as knowledgable on Cyttorak and the CC as much as I am on Cain.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Never heard of this either but I wouldn't put it past G doing so on two occassions. 1. G has the power to do so and the CC doesn't exactly hurt people by just being in there. 2. The CC isn't really his home as much as it is his prison. He was banished there. IIRC being in the CC doesn't actually make Cain or Cyttorak more powerful. I may be wrong. I'm not as knowledgable on Cyttorak and the CC as much as I am on Cain.

It happened in Dr strange sorcerer supreme but i cant remeber the details. Ill just do a quick croll thru of the comic.

Ok it was right after galactus left agamottos realm. The thing is that Galactus and cyttorak never came face to face. Juggernaut on the other hand did make an appearance and he actually succeeded in knocking cyttorak out for some time.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Ok it was right after galactus left agamottos realm. The thing is that Galactus and cyttorak never came face to face. Juggernaut on the other hand did make an appearance and he actually succeeded in knocking cyttorak out for some time.

Yeah that was the gay human looking one right? How in the hell do you beat your benefactor?

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Yeah that was the gay human looking one right? How in the hell do you beat your benefactor?

Yeah. It was the human form of cyttorak that has the gem in his head. Cyttorak even admitted that Juggs "briefly defeated him". I personally woudnt use that feat to judge him in general cuz thats just ridiculous.

I don't reference that for anything except for stupidity.

I always preferred that showing over his Juggernaut-like appearance later. It's not really telling of anything except that you can effectively steal the hat of someone stronger than you if you surprise them, which was the theme of my sig pictures for a while.

In case no one has mentioned, and not that this is comic canon at all, but according to the Classic Marvel RPG, Juggernauts force field grants him Class 1000 protection (about the same as Pure Adamantium), Galactus can wield the Power Cosmic at Class 3000 level. So yeah, Im in the camp that Galactus can take Cain down pretty handily.