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Location: The big room where Sidious fought Yoda and Yoda fell because of Sidious's lightning.
Knowledge: As all of us know, Caedus knows something of Gramps and Palps
Mindset: Both are out for blood here
Restrictions: None. Both are at their peak.

1. Saber
2. Force
3. All out

Caedus takes all three.

Vader at his peak? Wouldn't that mean a full potential unhurt anakin?

Or do you mean vader at his peak in the suit? If so caedus wins but not easy.

Isn't he kind of a non-entity? Much like a Dark-Side Yoda, or a lightside-Bane, the theoretical permutations of each character seem largely irrelevant. Sure it is fun to say "LULZ YODA W/FARFALLA BM AND CAEDUS SITH BM," but because they never existed there can't be an argument made for or against them.




Caedus takes all three.

Caedus takes all

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Isn't he kind of a non-entity? Much like a Dark-Side Yoda, or a lightside-Bane, the theoretical permutations of each character seem largely irrelevant. Sure it is fun to say "LULZ YODA W/FARFALLA BM AND CAEDUS SITH BM," but because they never existed there can't be an argument made for or against them.




Caedus takes all three. He said vader at his peak in which is anakin at his full potential in which we never see.

We never saw a vader at his "peak" hence i was nice enough to ask in the first place.

I fell so bad for Vader, but Caedus wins all of them.
how about we be slightly more descriptive..

like They start 50 meters apart, Caedus in a rage, Vader is pretty confident but not blood lusted. He is in the zone, and there are many things to throw such as trees, stones, boxes, crates, random stormtroopers, weapons like electrostaff, blaster.
Both are fresh and ready to fight.

They fight in Kashyyyk where the bridges are in the trailer thing here: http://www.lucasarts.com/games/theforceunleashed/
the reverse TV spot section under web docs and videos.
EDIT: its under unleash the demo.

Both have their own lightsabers and there are no crystal power up crap like

My crystal is more powerful than urs so u die cuz ur lightsaber got shorted out etc.

Thery are standing on vertical logs on a pond, so their lightsabers might still short out.(like naruto and sasuke in their final fight be4 shippuden)
No BM on either side and no dun moch either.

They have their usual powers

this is suit vader btw


Ok just trying to modify the match to give Vader an advantage if this is approved by ultimate vader...since vader is TK god. excluding nihilus and maybe starkiller. and Luke.

what do u guys think?

Originally posted by kotorfan
Both have their own lightsabers and there are no crystal power up crap like

My crystal is more powerful than urs so u die cuz ur lightsaber got shorted out etc.


Then why mention this scenario since they never have shown any "crystal power ups" like that in their lightsabers?


Some lightsabers can work under water but I'm not if theirs can or not. Also if Caedus gets Vader in the water then wouldn't Vader's suit short out.


Battle meditation is a complete waste in one on one fights because you have to meditate to perform it, you might as well let your opponent kill you.


I don't think it worked since if they start on a log then Vader's mobility would be reduced even more and the suit's electronics may short out in the water, the suit may very well way him down so much that he may need to use the force to stay afloat if he fell in.


Ultimate Vader's scenario is better.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter

Some lightsabers can work under water but I'm not if theirs can or not. Also if Caedus gets Vader in the water then wouldn't Vader's suit short out.


No he won't, he fell in the water against the dark woman but he never "short circuted".

I forgot about that before. There are two choices, suited Vader and unsuited Vader (when he kill those Jedi in the temple, I guess it's his peak for unsuited Vader).

Actually IMO peak means the best showing the character has done.

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
No he won't, he fell in the water against the dark woman but he never "short circuted".

Noted.

Originally posted by Ultimate Vader
Location: The big room where Sidious fought Yoda and Yoda fell because of Sidious's lightning.
Knowledge: As all of us know, Caedus knows something of Gramps and Palps
Mindset: Both are out for blood here
Restrictions: None. Both are at their peak.

1. Saber
2. Force
3. All out
Thanks for using my format
I'd say Cadeus though.

I don't know, supposedly Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader is the "most powerful Jedi/Sith ever", with Luke Skywalker being Anakin Skywalker's unmet potential according to canon tyrant George Lucas. But Caedus' could easily bust out force lightning and fry Vader. And Caedus did hold his own in the Battle of Kashyyyk against Skywalker who was Grand master at the time

Caedus would win

Originally posted by DarthSiddhartha
I don't know, supposedly Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader is the "most powerful Jedi/Sith ever", with Luke Skywalker being Anakin Skywalker's unmet potential according to canon tyrant George Lucas. But Caedus' could easily bust out force lightning and fry Vader. And Caedus did hold his own in the Battle of Kashyyyk against Skywalker who was Grand master at the time

Caedus would win Actually, Anakin/Vader has the most potential to be the greatest Force-user ever. And he would have been. As it stands in canon though, Palpatine is standing at #1 Sith and Luke at #1 Jedi.

Oh an in an all out, Vader does posses the capacity to absorb Caedus' Lightning with his saber.

But Caedus still wins.

Originally posted by DarthSiddhartha
I don't know, supposedly Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader is the "most powerful Jedi/Sith ever", with Luke Skywalker being Anakin Skywalker's unmet potential according to canon tyrant George Lucas. But Caedus' could easily bust out force lightning and fry Vader. And Caedus did hold his own in the Battle of Kashyyyk against Skywalker who was Grand master at the time

Caedus would win you bumped a 2 ye old thread, why? dont n00bs know what not to bump?

Originally posted by BoratBorat
you bumped a 2 ye old thread, why? dont n00bs know what not to bump?

It seems some noobs do not know that.

Caedus wins

Caedus takes a dump on the slow robot man.

Board Walker, where the hell do you find these things?

Caedus points and laughs at his poor old granddad. And then kills him.

Suit or not cadeus take this one...

dueling - Vader

Force Abilities- Caedus

all out- Vader after a long hard fought battle

Originally posted by Imperial Knight

dueling - Vader
Why?

Originally posted by Imperial Knight
dueling - Vader

Force Abilities- Caedus

all out- Vader after a long hard fought battle


Lol.

Jacen across the board.

Originally posted by Sinious
Why?

Lightsaber and other combat Skill's:
Vader is the better duelist. His technique is more refined. Even his most casual moves have been capable of staggering opponents and his hybrid style is built off of all seven form's of lightsaber combat. On the offensive Caedus's technique was heavily reliant on speed and agility but Vader has proven time and time again that he can deal with more agile opponents than himself. For example when he fought the Dark Woman. And while Caedus is also very skilled with other weapons like poison dart's and virbro blades, i doubt this will help him against Vader because I dont think Caedus will be able to find anywhere on Vader where he can insert the poison blade as Vader's cybernetic's and armor will prevent him from doing so. And I don't think Caedus will be able to get close enough with the Virbro blade to do any seriouse damage. Caedus's technique is heavily based around surprise and trickery as shown in his fight's with Kyle Katarn and Mara Jade. During his fight with Mara Jade, Mara had complete control of the fight and Caedus was only able to win by projecting an image an image of Ben Skywalker just as she was about to strike him down. As for the fight against Katarn Caedus was only able to win by using the force to send a speeder into the Jedi Master's back pushing him onto Caedus's blade. He did not win either of these fight's because he was a better duelist. And when Caedus had an opponent who he wasn't simply able to trick and who was a superior martial artist who could withstand his force abilities like luke and jaina then Caedus had nothing and the fight became a countdown until death. in comparison to this Vader was a duelist who had learnt from his mistakes and who over the years had developed a refined technique taking elements from all forms of lightsaber combat and would be able to defend against anything Caedus could throw at him.

Force Abilities:

Darth Caedus is an absolute master of the force and so is Vader despite his diminished force abilities from his duel on mustafar. Vader's telekinetic abilities were highly advanced and he has even been shown being able to use them against Jedi breaking through their force barrier's and throttling them to death. He could also use his force abilities to throw object's at his opponent's whilst still fighting them with his lightsaber and has been shown to be able to do this with relative ease as shown in his duel with Luke on Bespin. Vader is also proficient in the saber throw ability which he has demonstrated on multiple occasion's. Vader is also an excellent telepath. This is best shown in his finale duel with Luke on death star II where he was able to probe Luke and find out he had a sister. Vader is also proficient in the Tutaminus ability as shown in the Empire strike's back where he was able to absorb Han Solo's blaster bolts. Though it should be noted that because of his cybernetic's he couldn't use this against lightning however Vader will have no problem if Caedus decides to whip out a blaster during the fight. Vader could also use a power similar to force destruction as shown when he fought Marek on the Death Star. This allowed him to surround himself in a red energy field and attack Marek with dark side energy.

Caedus was also an absolute master with the dark side of the force and is skilled with a wide variety of power's. Caedus was also incredibly skilled with telekenesis and has been shown to be able to thrash opponent's about with powerful telekinetic blast's. He was also able to thrash about heavy objects with relative ease as shown on multiple occasion's. Caedus has also been shown to be proficient in the saberthrow ability though he does not use this ability often. Caedus like Vader is also an extremely proficient telepath and he has been shown to be extremely skilled with mind trick's and has been shown to be able to compel people into doing his bidding. He has also been shown to be able to penetrate a target's mind and cause a brain hemorrhage as shown when he interrogated boba fett's daughter. Caedus has also been shown to be extremely skilled in illusion's as shown during his fight with Mara Jade when he projected an image of Ben Skywalker causing her to hesitate and allow him to poison her. Caedus, like most Sith Lord's has been shown to be incredibly skilled with force lightning. He has also been shown to be able to use tutaminus to block blaster bolts. Caedus has also been shown to be skilled with shatterpoint though despite the fact that he did not elevate this ability to the same level as Mace Windu did, he was still alble to break seemingly unbreakable object's by finding there shatterpoint's.

Despite the fact that Caedus has a wide variety of powerful force abilitie's, I do not think that they are all battle efficient. For example tutaminus wont come into play because Vader doesn't use a blaster and both are trained to resist telepathy. As far as telekinesis goes I think they are both fairly evenly matched. Caedus's force lightning wont cause Vader too much trouble because he has several ways of dealing with it like blocking it with his lightsaber Though in an all out force contest where Vader has no weapon he wont be able to do this. That leaves shatter point and despite the fact that Caedus isnt as skilled in this ability as Mace Windu for example I still think this will provide him with a slight advantage over Vader.

In an all out fight I think Vader would win for the simple reason that his advantage in lightsaber combat is by a bigger margin than Caedus's advantage in the force and it is my opinion that after a long and hard fought battle Vader would win though it would not be easy for him.

Hmm, don't necessarily agree, but it's refreshing to see an actual argument for once on this.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Hmm, don't necessarily agree, but it's refreshing to see an actual argument for once on this.

Thanks

Jaina had a massive amp from Luke against Caedus, and Mara picked the Kavan caverns to restrict Jacen's movements and force use. This is mentioned in text. Also the narrator remarks that even with help the strike team against Caedus with Kyle couldn't beat him on his worst day, and he beat them while injured and even fought off three of them at once.

He beat his opponents when they had advantages, and Vader has been halted by far less skilled opponents

Originally posted by carthage
Jaina had a massive amp from Luke against Caedus, and Mara picked the Kavan caverns to restrict Jacen's movements and force use. This is mentioned in text. Also the narrator remarks that even with help the strike team against Caedus with Kyle couldn't beat him on his worst day, and he beat them while injured and even fought off three of them at once.

He beat his opponents when they had advantages, and Vader has been halted by far less skilled opponents

Jaina didn't have a massive amp against Caedus, she had a slight one but not massive. As for Mara that just show's Caedus's lack of tactical ingenuity in a fight and even though it was pretty much a pure lightsaber duel Mara dominated it and the only thing that saved Caedus was his illusion of Ben before mara struck the killing blow and I think this does show Caedus's failing's as a duelist. The strike team got in the way during that fight, they were more a hindrance than a help to Katarn and if Caedus and Katarn were in a pure lightsaber duel with no force abilities, I think Katarn would win that fight.

Originally posted by Imperial Knight
Jaina didn't have a massive amp against Caedus, she had a slight one but not massive. As for Mara that just show's Caedus's lack of tactical ingenuity in a fight and even though it was pretty much a pure lightsaber duel Mara dominated it and the only thing that saved Caedus was his illusion of Ben before mara struck the killing blow and I think this does show Caedus's failing's as a duelist. The strike team got in the way during that fight, they were more a hindrance than a help to Katarn and if Caedus and Katarn were in a pure lightsaber duel with no force abilities, I think Katarn would win that fight.

Other than the fact he was injured, restricted, and kept driving Mara back? Sure it was an even fight . Mara even admitted her inferiority in the force, which is why she needed to prep and trap him in the caverns. She wouldn't have a chance on neutral ground. Compare that to Vader struggling to put down Kuro who is massively inferior to Mara, and who was giving him issues with her esoteric force abilities lol. Also no Caedus was deflecting Kyle's blows away harmlessly, and he even couldn't keep track of the movements of the strike team who were even getting in the way of each other. Keep in mind Caedus's admits they'd have no chance against him:







You can keep lowballing his showing against Mara, I can post where she admits inferiority in the force and highlight sections that she specifically needed prep to beat him. Jaina likewise is stated to be inferior to Jacen in Dark Journey, where she admits she lacks his nascent skill with a lightsaber. Obviously, she got better- but if she was his peer in skill she wouldn'tve needed an amp or specialized Mando training to hold her own in a duel

Originally posted by carthage
Other than the fact he was injured, restricted, and kept driving Mara back? Sure it was an even fight . Mara even admitted her inferiority in the force, which is why she needed to prep and trap him in the caverns. She wouldn't have a chance on neutral ground. Compare that to Vader struggling to put down Kuro who is massively inferior to Mara, and who was giving him issues with her esoteric force abilities lol. Also no Caedus was deflecting Kyle's blows away harmlessly, and he even couldn't keep track of the movements of the strike team who were even getting in the way of each other. Keep in mind Caedus's admits they'd have no chance against him:







You can keep lowballing his showing against Mara, I can post where she admits inferiority in the force and highlight sections that she specifically needed prep to beat him. Jaina likewise is stated to be inferior to Jacen in Dark Journey, where she admits she lacks his nascent skill with a lightsaber. Obviously, she got better- but if she was his peer in skill she wouldn'tve needed an amp to hold her own

Kuro is not massively inferior to Mara, Kuro was actually incredibly skilled and arguably better than Mara. And Mara may have been inferior in the force but not in lightsaber combat. I think in a pure lightsaber duel on even ground Mara could match Caedus. Kuro's esoteric abilities were more combat effective than Caedus's esoteric abilities. And as for what Caedus said when attacked by the stike team what he said is as much his own arrogance as the truth. And during loft Jaina massively improved and received a lot of combat training to improve her abilities and she was a match for Caedus.

Lmfao

Originally posted by carthage
Lmfao

Just my opinion and also Mara was injured in her fight with Caedus to. They were both injured.

Originally posted by carthage
Other than the fact he was injured, restricted, and kept driving Mara back? Sure it was an even fight . Mara even admitted her inferiority in the force, which is why she needed to prep and trap him in the caverns. She wouldn't have a chance on neutral ground. Compare that to Vader struggling to put down Kuro who is massively inferior to Mara, and who was giving him issues with her esoteric force abilities lol. Also no Caedus was deflecting Kyle's blows away harmlessly, and he even couldn't keep track of the movements of the strike team who were even getting in the way of each other. Keep in mind Caedus's admits they'd have no chance against him:







You can keep lowballing his showing against Mara, I can post where she admits inferiority in the force and highlight sections that she specifically needed prep to beat him. Jaina likewise is stated to be inferior to Jacen in Dark Journey, where she admits she lacks his nascent skill with a lightsaber. Obviously, she got better- but if she was his peer in skill she wouldn'tve needed an amp or specialized Mando training to hold her own in a duel


Also in that quote you gave where Caedus said they were no match for him, he was refering to the three knights not Katarn. (Three Jedi Knights: the younger Horn, the Falleen Mithric, the Bothan
Hu'lya. He resisted the urge to snort. Separately or collectively, these Jedi
Knights were no match for him-Fury.) He says nothing about Katarn.

Originally posted by Imperial Knight
Also in that quote you gave where Caedus said they were no match for him, he was refering to the three knights not Katarn. (Three Jedi Knights: the younger Horn, the Falleen Mithric, the Bothan
Hu'lya. He resisted the urge to snort. Separately or collectively, these Jedi
Knights were no match for him-Fury.) He says nothing about Katarn.

He deflected his blade harmlessly away (I highlighted that), and at no point is there any evidence of strain or difficulty caused by Katarn in their duel. Katarn isn't his equal or even remotely close to him in skill by any stretch.

Originally posted by carthage
He deflected his blade harmlessly away (I highlighted that), and at no point is there any evidence of strain or difficulty caused by Katarn in their duel. Katarn isn't his equal or even remotely close to him in skill by any stretch.

He is in a lightsaber duel and as I said the other members were getting in the way and Caedus only won that duel by throwing that speeder into Katarn's back, there is no evidence he would have won otherwise.

Originally posted by Imperial Knight
He is in a lightsaber duel and as I said the other members were getting in the way and Caedus only won that duel by throwing that speeder into Katarn's back, there is no evidence he would have won otherwise.

Other than the fact that he laughs at their attempts to beat him and that Katarn couldn't even win with help on his side?

Ok. You can keep lowballing, you haven't refuted a single thing I've posted.

Originally posted by carthage
Other than the fact that he laughs at their attempts to beat him and that Katarn couldn't even win with help on his side?

Ok. You can keep lowballing, you haven't refuted a single thing I've posted.

You haven't refuted a single thing I have posted. The strike team were getting in the way of each other and you can't use Caedus's arrogance as fact. Caedus won that fight through trickery not skill.

I already showed that he easily deflected his blade off. Katarn had help and if he was as skilled as you're trying to pass him off, with sufficient help he should've been able to beat him.

Originally posted by carthage
I already showed that he easily deflected his blade off. Katarn had help and if he was as skilled as you're trying to pass him off, with sufficient help he should've been able to beat him.

Katarn did not have help he had hindrance and you can't judge the whole fight on how Caedus blocked one strike. If Caedus was more skillfull he wouldn't have resorted to trickery, he would have just killed Katarn.

Originally posted by Imperial Knight
Kuro is not massively inferior to Mara, Kuro was actually incredibly skilled and arguably better than Mara.

Based on what? Last I recall, she has no impressive skill accolades or feats, and as for her fight against Vader, he would have beaten her easily in a pure lightsaber duel were it not for her esoteric powers.

Originally posted by Nargaroth
Based on what? Last I recall, she has no impressive skill accolades or feats, and as for her fight against Vader, he would have beaten her easily in a pure lightsaber duel were it not for her esoteric powers.

I agree with you I was refering to there force abilities not their dueling skills. Although I do believe that Kuro was skilled with a lightsaber she still held off Darth Vader himself for a time without resorting to force abilities, at least not straight the way. I think she has a chance against Mara but more because of her force abilities than her lightsaber abilities.

Originally posted by Imperial Knight
Katarn did not have help he had hindrance and you can't judge the whole fight on how Caedus blocked one strike. If Caedus was more skillfull he wouldn't have resorted to trickery, he would have just killed Katarn.

Being a "hindrance" would kind of disprove your notion of being more skilled, seeing as this was a strike team that was supposed to stall or beat him outright. Why can't you just admit that he couldn't beat him even with help, and the text confirms it instead of all of these weird mental gymnastics you're playing. A simple telekinetic attack isn't trickery either, lol. He was also injured after his duel with Luke and still fought them all off, so Katarn even had a handicap going into the fight and still failed.

Originally posted by carthage
Being a "hindrance" would kind of disprove your notion of being more skilled, seeing as this was a strike team that was supposed to stall or beat him outright. Why can't you just admit that he couldn't beat him even with help, and the text confirms it instead of all of these weird mental gymnastics you're playing. A simple telekinetic attack isn't trickery either, lol. He was also injured after his duel with Luke and still fought them all off, so Katarn even had a handicap going into the fight and still failed.

The rest of the strike team were a hindrance to Katarn they were getting in his way and in the way of each other and I think on his own Katarn has more of a chance against him than with those other Jedi getting in his way. The texts confirms nothing all it says was Caedus easily blocked one of Katarn's strikes.

Originally posted by Imperial Knight
Also in that quote you gave where Caedus said they were no match for him, he was refering to the three knights not Katarn. (Three Jedi Knights: the younger Horn, the Falleen Mithric, the Bothan
Hu'lya. He resisted the urge to snort. Separately or collectively, these Jedi
Knights were no match for him-Fury.) He says nothing about Katarn. While ur overall point is right, the part about him not saying anything about Kyle isn't.
In fact after he thinks the knights are no match for him, the very next sentence is-"Katarn, though, was a threat."

Whether Katarn turned out to be much of a threat might be a different story, but he still considered him one.

Originally posted by Raptor22
While ur overall point is right, the part about him not saying anything about Kyle isn't.
In fact after he thinks the knights are no match for him, the very next sentence is-"Katarn, though, was a threat."

Whether Katarn turned out to be much of a threat might be a different story, but he still considered him one.

I stand corrected, I was replying to the quote Carthage posted so I didn't see that bit. The point I was trying to make was that I think in a pure lightsaber duel without the force Kyle had a good chance of winning.

Vader humbles his grandson in canon

Loses Legends everytime

Carthage, when you get hyped by something absurd, do you just run around bumping threads to advertise it?

Originally posted by SunRazer
http://a.dilcdn.com/bl/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/babyzone/2013/04/baby-boy-crying-photo-420x420-ts-56570356.jpg

Damn, Carthage is crying over this as he posts it.... lol

haha yeah I ****ed my post up.

Carthage, predict Canon's new bold endeavor.

I honestly have no idea. Disney seems to pull a few crazy stunts like this, first Vos beating Dooku and now Vader being the most skilled Sith?. It makes no ****ing sense, but hey they're the writers of canon now.

Vader being above Sidious as a duelist is probably the most tolerable, but again, sh!tty sources like this have the square root of jack sh!t credibility anyway.

We'll probably have Anakin above Yoda as a duelist next

Well wouldn't it make sense that he would be more skilled after Sidious seeing as after ROTS he isn't known to wield a lightsaber. Also newer sources i,e Tarkin Sidious considers him superior to Maul/Dooku- and the company seems to be going in that direction. It shouldn't be that big of a surprise, but take it for what you will. We're not all going to agree on the direction of canon in general, and for what it's worth a lot of it flies in the fact of what we've seen in the EU.

Also if you looked at that thread, Yoda has incredibly impressive accolades at least based on what was posted by others.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=609707&pagenumber=6

Vader's always been superior to them.

I meant in skill.

Palpatine doesn't say he's more skilled than them?

Also, the list probably just mentions them in order of notoriety. None of the lists I've seen so far are based on a superiority hierarchy.