Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Sadly the last thread was closed which I just noticed.
So why not start another.

Who wins?

Round 1: Hotness Contest.
Round 2: Battle to the death

Round one: I don't roll like that. But as far as looking more girly, Kuja takes that (honest to God I thought he was a female for a little while). Maybe the girlier a FF villain looks, the more powerful he is... http://images.killermovies.com/forums/smilies/cartoon/erm.gif

Round two: I haven't played FFIX in the longest time(gave it to a friend back in 8th grade), so I'm not exactly clear on Kuja's full power. I know it's said that he destroyed whatever the hell place Zidane was created from, as well as Terra if my memory serves me correctly. With FFVII having been made into a sub-series of its own in a sense, we see alot more of Sephiroth battling than of Kuja, but he's rarely if ever put in a full effort in what fights he'd been in.

Though we settled that Kuja > Sephiroth already. >_>

Only Sephiroth fans that were in denial, couldn't let it go.

just my opinion...

Sephiroth is far stronger than someone who survived Bahamut sin's blast without damage(Cloud) while Kuja was damaged... a little by bahamut's blast.

Sephiroth wins.

As I said in another thread....

Going THROUGH an attack, with help, does NOT = standing on a shoreline and surviving the direct, full force of two blasts.

Without Barret and Co. Cloud would never of even got that high, without Aerith he never would of survived. Now thats me taking it at face value, Aerith didn't have to appear, but she did.

Name one shot in which Aerith appears, where she don't help Cloud.

Also Trance Kuja >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Normal Kuja

Cloud was sucked into the ball of fire. it has nothing to do with Tifa cs help. it's about Cloud's durability.

Sephiroth wins.

Kuja could teleport Sephiroth away = win.
Kuja could ultima Sephiroth = win. Unless you can display Sephiroth enduring a planet destroying attack.
Kuja could snap his fingers and summon deathguise again.
Kuja could open a dimensional rift around Sephiroth and close it, trapping Sephiroth inside. = win.

Note on Sephiroths endurance: ...well actually it Jevona's, remember Sephy is 100% Jenova....

In FFVII, Jenova who was impersonating Sephiroth FAILED to be able to take the black materia from the temple of the ancients. Considering the fact that Jenova was RIGHT NEXT TO IT proves that he/it did not have enough endurance to survive the temples collapse.

Ultima > Temple collapsing > Jenova/AC Sephiroths endurance.

Both these bigots lose, this is just going to be another flame war when the fanboys exit the woodworks.

As for on topic since i'll just pick sephiroth because he appeals to me as the masculine macho character as compared to the puny feminine girly fagget known as kuja, thats for round one.

Originally posted by UltimaKuja
Kuja could teleport Sephiroth away = win.
Kuja could ultima Sephiroth = win. Unless you can display Sephiroth enduring a planet destroying attack.
Kuja could snap his fingers and summon deathguise again.
Kuja could open a dimensional rift around Sephiroth and close it, trapping Sephiroth inside. = win.

Show Kuja teleporting people against their will, thats why he needed the black mages to teleport people on disc 3, and needed them to go to a specific spot.

Sephiroth has stopped planet destroying attack before

Sephiroth is far faster and can instantly teleport, unlike Kuja.

Sephiroth can speedblitz Kuja
Sephiroth can TK Kuja stiff and kill him
Sephiroth can use the NL against Kuja and he'll be dead

Sephiroth freezes him stiff with a thought, and Kuja will be helpless.

Kuja wins both rounds. She is extremely hotter than Sephiroth in his best days.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Show Kuja teleporting people against their will, thats why he needed the black mages to teleport people on disc 3, and needed them to go to a specific spot.

LOL he was using the black mages to do his dirty work. Why would he do it, when the mages can do it for him? Kuja > Black mages.

I can easily say "That's why Sephiroth needed to use Jenova to accomplish anything in VII."



No, Sephiroth has held back ONE potentially planet destroying attack.
Once Sephiroth stopped holding it back, it was released. Sephiroth managed to contain one, NOT stop it.

Kuja can fire multiple attacks.


Kuja CAN teleport not only himself, but other groups of people, PROVED when he teleported them FROM ANOTHER DIMENSION.
WHILE he was not even in his trance form, and badly wounded.

Proof is found in the game after Zidane and Co. defeat Necron.



Show Sephiroth doing any of that to someone of Kujas power.
Thats why he needed to waste his time with that long arse sword of his instead of just killing everyone at the end of FFVII.

Sephiroth fans are such big-headed, know-it-alls that never EVER listen.

NL? Okay, Kuja opens a portal around them both and closes it. No NL for Sephiroth. Not that it's proven to do anything except make the sky cloudy.

Sephiroth freezes him stiff? Apart from the fact that you can't prove it, and it ain't going to happen....
Sephiroth freezes him, then Kuja teleports Sephiroths sword out his hand and uses his own TK abilities to impale Sephiroth.

Kuja blocks Sephiroths attempt to speedblitz with his barrier and then ultimas him.

Originally posted by UltimaKuja
LOL he was using the black mages to do his dirty work. Why would he do it, when the mages can do it for him? Kuja > Black mages.

I can easily say "That's why Sephiroth needed to use Jenova to accomplish anything in VII."
If he could simply teleport anyone regardless of their will, he wouldn't have told them to go to the beacon before he teleported them.

Sephiroth didn't have Jenova do any of his "dirty work", it was Sephiroth who did everything in FF7, he just used Jenova bodyparts to transform into his image, he controlled all of them.


He nullified it, and held it there for months, his TK works on a thought, Kuja's Ultima isn't instant, Sephiroth speedblitz' him.


Again, show me Kuja actually teleporting someone against their will, when he was enemies with the party he couldn't teleport them anywhere unless they were in a specific spot, when he battled them he couldn't teleport them into a pit of Laava or anything.


Sephiroth stopped Holy, it's in the plot, this is AC Sephiroth with the power of the NL, Sephiroth is far more versatile then Kuja, Kuja only has magic, Sephiroth has the whole package, he has power of the source of magic, he has strength, and far more speed then Kuja

No, thats you. Kuja has no instant attacks and has shown no speed at all.

Show me him doing that, Sephiroth wouldnt get caught in a portal, you keep ignoring the fact that Sephiroth is far faster then Kuja, and anyone Kuja has ever faced. The lifestream helped disintegrate Meteor, it would crush Kuja.


You're ignoring the fact that not even Holy was able to escape Sephiroths TK, and at the same time lifted the entire 8 members of the party and tortured them, he easily brought down the top of the shinra tower in AC with a thought.

Kuja has shown no impressive TK abilities at all, Kuja countering Sephiroth TK with his own is just fan nonsense,

Kuja gets frozen and killed.


Kuja can't do any of this instantly, not even close. He's never anyone even remotely close to as fast as the people in the FF7 world.

Originally posted by Terryc250
If he could simply teleport anyone regardless of their will, he wouldn't have told them to go to the beacon before he teleported them.


He wanted them close together.... so you argue that Kuja needs some panel to teleport people?

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/5356/kujaoptele4en9.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/19/kujaoptele5dq3.jpg
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3904/kujaoptele6ss3.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/8185/kujaoptele7oz1.jpg

Now, remember, this is while Kuja was badly hurt, close to death AND in his normal form. No telling how much more improved this ability is at his full power.



Sephiroth controlling a being that has no will left of its own is not impressive.
Jenova, by Sephiroths will, was doing EVERYTHING. Sephiroth just sat in his little pod in the Northern Crater, because someone, who will remain nameless, owned him.



If he nullified it, it wouldn't have to be contained for weeks now, would it?
He was constantly using his powers to hold it back, ONE ATTACK BTW.

I have already explained to you that Kuja can fire ATLEAST 4 ultima beams in one go.

Let me say that again for you: ATLEAST 4 ultima beams in one go.


When Sephiroth battles Cloud and Co. he couldn't 1-hit KO them through the back like Aerith, either.

Choose not to do something =/= Don't have the ability to do something. Sorry.


Correction: Kuja only needs magic.



No, Sephiroth has materia. Sephiroth, like everyone else in VII, has the ability to use powers contain in little balls, called materia.

MATERIA IS NO WHERE NEAR KUJA'S LEVEL OF POWER.

LOL. Sephiroth has SOOOOOO much power of his own he was able to summon meteor all by himself....



Yes, shown no speed. Because he don't appear in a movie.
Then again, the real Sephiroth hardly even moved when confined to the GAME, as Kuja's speed feats are.

Though, no matter how quickly someone casts fire on a fire flan, then won't kill it. Kinda need power for that. (Yes, also need another spell)



You keep ignoring Speed =/= Power.
Furthermore, I would put Kuja getting to Gaia, after destroying Terra, and opening a portal to another dimension, as quickly as he did, above what Sephiroth has shown.

....but thats me.



Im sorry, are you trying to pass this THEORY off as a FACT?
Gee, I though this was about facts, not about theorys.....

Okay... I theorize that Trance Kuja will teleport the sun right up Sephiroths arse..... ouch.


Your ignoring the fact holy was ONE attack coming from ONE direction, with ONE intention.... destroying Meteor.


I don't remember Sephiroth torturing anyone.... I do remember Sephiroth getting owned though, but if we are judging power by the ability to torture someone, then the Turks are in a league of their own.


http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/6896/ff7midgar2il0.jpg
You mean this seriously damaged building, and barely standing building?
Even a vastly inferior Odin, from FFIX, did more then that. FYI Kuja is so superior to Odin, its practically a joke.

I would bet the Turks bomb did more damage to Midgar then Sephiroth.



FFVII: AC is NOTHING BUT fan service... you don't see me complaining about it..... oh, wait...... FRIGGING FAN SERVICE GARBAGE!!!!!!
I already feel better.

Since TK is based on will, then I think Garlands quote....
Garland: "But 24 years ago, I gave life to a Genome that was very much like you. His will was too strong to make him into a proper vessel."

... has some bearing here.


Back to theorys again? Alrighty....

Sephiroth gets comatose'd by Kuja's spell, then killed.




http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/6807/kujabarrier1yw1.jpg
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/3296/kujabarrier2vf3.jpg

Seems instant to me.

Originally posted by UltimaKuja
He wanted them close together.... so you argue that Kuja needs some panel to teleport people?

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/5356/kujaoptele4en9.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/19/kujaoptele5dq3.jpg
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3904/kujaoptele6ss3.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/8185/kujaoptele7oz1.jpg

Now, remember, this is while Kuja was badly hurt, close to death AND in his normal form. No telling how much more improved this ability is at his full power.

Also remember that this isn't against their will, nor were they moving, they were stationary. If he could teleport anyone regardless of their will he would've simply teleported them into a laava pit along time ago, or he wouldn't have needed them to go on the beacon in disc 3 to teleport them.

Did you not read what i said? It's Sephiroth doing it all, his body is in the northern crater, but he moves around the planet still with parts of Jenovas body, but its still infact, Sephiroth.


He neutralized it for months, a single attack that is capable of destroying everything on the planet, Kuja had to fire shot after shot before it got to that level. Sephiroth with a thought would neutralize him before even one shot fired.


he needs to charge it up first, he cannot fire them instantly, 4 beams isn't planet wrecking either.


And let me say this again, try reading this time, he doesn't fire 4 beams instantly, he charges them up first, and 4 beams isn't planet wrecking.

He'll get stopped before the charge, or while he charges, even if he fires the "4 beams" its not threatening to Sephiroth and he can stop them or avoid them.


The party had their guard up, Sephrioth battled them while holding back Holy, gameplay is induced, hell Sephiroth didn't even have a masamune in the fight. Kuja has never teleported anyone to their death or anything like that, he's never teleported anyone against their will.


Everything suggests that he cannot do it to people he's fighting / people attacking him, he's only teleported stationary people or people on a beacon, or to save someone. Apology accepted.


Magic isn't fast, Sephiroth is fast, Magic isn't instant, Sephiroth has instant teleporting, instant speed, instant powers. Kuja has to "cast" which has some cast time.


No, Sephiroth has the lifestream, which is what the source of magic is durr.


Who said anything about materia?


I think your confusing FF7 Sephiroth with AC Sephiroth, Meteor was in FF7, AC Sephiroth gains all that power after FF7. The thread title says AC Sephiroth, so that means its Sephiroth after gaining the power of the lifestream. So your "summon meteor" is irrelevent.


Uhh even in FF7 Sephiroth has shown more speed then Kuja

There's probably been alot more, but these are the only Sephiroth scenes i can remember
2:40
9qnyxd7Vq0Q
36:40, Instantly teleporting infront of the 3, then moving fast.
stoskknPp10

And then you have the speed feats in AC, Kuja has never has faced anyone even close to as fast, even Sephiroth weak remnants dwarf Kuja in speed.

http://i34.tinypic.com/an0eja.gif


Huh?


Having far superior speed is a big advantage, especially when the character has both power and speed. He doesn't any of that instantly, his teleporting is opening up a portal and going through it, which is hardly fast.


What theory? That lifestream helped destroy meteor? Thats fact, genius.


Take your own advice.

You don't seem to understand proper physics, stopping force whether its going in one direction or the other requires the same amount of power to stop, there is no difference.

Sephiroth was torturing them while he held them all up with TK


Cloud: Sephiroth!!

Barret: Ugh! Is this... Sephiroth's power?

Cid: My...my body... I can't control my body... Uuugh!?

Red: My front legs...my hind legs...my tail's about to rip off!!

Cait: This is definately not good...He's way outta our league...

Yuffie: I, I don't know if I can...go on.

Tifa: Cloud...Cloud...

Cloud: Ugh...ugh...




The giant shinra tower in the last fight, he brought it down with a thought, and you think Kuja can escape something not even Holy can escape? Sephiroth did it as childsplay, Sephiroth is vastly superior to Odin as well, so Odin being mentioned is irrelevent.


What does your opinion have to do with anything? Nothing.


Sephiroths will is powerful enough to move physical and non-phsical things, so Kuja not being made into a proper vessel means nothing.



Unfortunately for you, Sephiroth won't be doing absolutely nothing while Kuja tries to cast, Sephiroth would take advantage of his far superior speed and instant teleportation, and slay Kuja from the get go.


That doesn't show anything, you posted 2 screenshots and claimed they are instant, how about a video?

Close match but Trance ftw. Sephiroth can take it at least 4/10.

LOL
No.

Bizarro Sephiroth didn't need Materia. Neither did Safer Sephiroth(the only Materia being used by him, was the Black Materia attached to his wing, and he was only using it to summon Meteor).

Before you go stating your "facts" about FFVII, I suggest you to play the game.


Ah, and before you start screaming at me like the biased fangril you are, let me tell you that Kuja wins this fight, in my opinion.

Originally posted by SHM

Bizarro Sephiroth didn't need Materia. Neither did Safer Sephiroth(the only Materia being used by him, was the Black Materia attached to his wing, and he was only using it to summon Meteor).

Before you go stating your "facts" about FFVII, I suggest you to play the game.
If thats true, then fine... I'm wrong.
However, I suggest you prove that AC Sephiroth don't need materia with actual evidence.

....anything official will do.



I'm totally chilled, actually. Watching the final Dissidia trailer does that to ya. ^_^

Weren't you against Kuja winning in the previous Sep Vs Kuj topic? o.o

Originally posted by UltimaKuja
Fail. I proved Kuja can teleport people, even if they're in another dimension, while he is critically wounded.
You can't prove it wasn't against their wills either, the FACT is.... and its quite simple to grasp, they weren't given a chance, it just happened.

Lets go over this BS again for you: He did it WHILE CRITICALLY WOUNDED, AND TRANCE MAKES HIM MORE POWERFUL.

Did that sink in? Do you understand? Are you CAPABLE of comprehending what I'm telling you, or am I wasting my time here?

Umm no, the fact that he neeeded them to go to a specific spot to teleport them, and the fact that he couldn't do it throughout the entire game suggests that he cannot do it to people against their will, or against non-stationary opponents. Trance doesn't make him more powerful in every single way, is he faster? No. Does he have more defense? No.


Psychically? He controlled all of them with his mind, that is "psychically". Why would he not take advantage of his powers? And why do you talk like Kuja didn't get "owned" by the protagonist of his game? Sephiroth got cheap-shotted by Cloud in FF7 from behind, that is not "owned". Kuja got owned by the FF9 party who has no feats to put them on the level of Cloud anyway.
Who knows why one of his bodies was on the boat. He had a number of bodies everywhere on Gaia.


Yes that "Single" power was stopped by Sephiroth, a "single" Ultima blasts isn't even close to the power of a "Single" Holy, that "single" Ultima would be stopped before he can fire anything else. Bugenhagen is basically the Guru of FF7, his entire role in the game is to explain the role of the lifestream, and tell the character information about the black and white materia, obviously he wouldn't lie for no reason.

It took him like 3 seconds to fire 1 shot, and each of the rest needed like a second to shoot. Sephiroth would have him frozen, and then right behind him in less then a second. If he uses his TK (which works on a thought) it would disrupt Kuja's 3 seconds to fire his first shot, and he'd instantly already be behind him and decapitated.


No, not instantly. Again he needed 3 seconds just to fire the first shot, which already negates your that Kuja can fire Ultima instantly. He'll be stopped beore he can fire a single shot. So it doesn't matter what he can fire after his first charge because he be stopped before the first charge anyway.


Again let me say this, read and comprehend it this time. Kuja will be stopped before his first shot even fires, Kuja needed a few seconds just to fire that first shot (few second < speed of thought)

Again you're forgetting that this is AC Sephiroth.
CC Sephiroth<FF7 Sephiroth<AC Sephiroth

Sephiroth when he fought Genesis didn't gain nearly even close to all his powers he had in AC. He was basically still human, and the fact that he wasn't even serious in that fight, he tanked the fires like nothing anyway.

Stop acting like a 10 year old please, thanks.


3 seconds = firing 1 shot of Ultima, More ultima = Some more time
Sephiroths TK = Speed of thought.

Speed of thought > Seconds required for Ultima.

Also, show me Sephiroth needing 2 seconds to draw his blade. Oh you can't? Alright.


No, him getting stopped is the logical view in this fight. It's like saying if we debated Sue Storm vs Hercules, Sue should beable to stop Hercules punch with her shield because she has stopped Thor's hits before, thats logical.
a couple shots of Ultima aren't threatening to Sephiroth because he is faster then them, and they aren't on the level of planet wrecking anyway. But he'll stop Kuja before Kuja even fires any nonetheless.

No, who said we're judging Sephiroth endurance?
First of all, thats not AC Sephiroth
Second of all, Who said FF7 Sephiroth couldn't withstand the temple of ancients collapse?

AC Sephiroth was only killed by Omnislash.

-continued




Could Kuja teleport them whenever he wanted with their guards up? No. Could Kuja teleport them anytime during the game? No. Could Kuja teleport them at any spot in the game? No. Could Kuja teleport them when they weren't enemies anymore, to save them? Yes.


ADD? Do you even know what ADD is? It has absolutely NOTHING to do with anything here rofl. And no you haven't proved anything. Like i said Show me Kuja teleporting his enemy against their will. No don't show me him teleporting allies to save them. The fact that he needed them to go to specific locations before he can teleport them, and the fact that he couldn't do it throughout the entire game. Show me Kuja teleporting someone who is moving fast like Sephiroth, Kuja most likely wouldn't even beable to pinpoint Sephiroth.


?
You apologized to me, and I accepted it.


Actually if you haven't noticed, I have not been talking about meteor, because it's irrelevent. If you have the intelligence to figure it out, it was actually you yourself that has been talking about meteor irrelevantly.


No he doesn't have "think time" rofl.
Is this going to be your new excuse? "oo Sephiroth needs time to think"
"He requires THINK TIME!"

Umm no.. just no.. FF7 magic is the power of the LIFESTREAM. Materia helps users TAP into the power of the lifestream. This is FACT. Do not try to argue FF7 facts with me please.

AC Sephiroth did not require materia just as his remnants didn't, they used the power directly from the lifestream. Sephiroth who has full power over his own negative lifestream has powers beyond his remnants. .


Ok, and Kuja can only use teleport to run away, actually thats alot more true then Sephiroth speed. Kuja has only shown his teleport ability to run away, because it's not instant. Sephiroths speed has been shown in fight.


Thats fail on quite a few levels
This "one little bomb" was a Turn giant TNT explosion
It did not kill the remnants
"like master, like remnant."? Umm no, just no.. The remnants were just a small fraaction of Sephiroths power, Cloud was even able to take them all on and toy with Kadaj. Yet Sephiroth easily toyed with Cloud and could've killed him anytime he wanted.

AC Sephiroth was only killed by Omnislash.


Once again you're having trouble comprehending english words. I'm "basically" saying Kuja cannot use teleport in crucial moments, for example Sephiroth speeding behind him and about to stab him through the neck, Kuja won't be teleporting away because its not instant enough to help him escape. Once again you cannot show me Kuja teleporting his enemy or someone moving close to as fast as Sephiroth. I guarantee you 100% in dissidia, Kuja cannot teleport any of his enemies or anything of that sort.


Wow you completely miscomprehended the entire point i posted that for, i'll baby feed it for you to understand

You said "I don't remember Sephiroth torturing anyone"

So i posted that thinking you would be smart enough to read the part where the party says

Cid: My...my body... I can't control my body... Uuugh!?

Red: My front legs...my hind legs...my tail's about to rip off!!

Yuffie: I, I don't know if I can...go on.

Which shows he was infact, torturing them.


Again, what does Odin have to do with anything? So, Bahamut Retsu>Odin.

I can go on and name summons more powerful then Odin as well, but thats irrelevent here. Sephiroth brought it down with a thought. It wasn't a magic cast, or a blast, or a shot or anything like that, it was just a thought.


No, because he would be stabbed through the neck before he could.

No one was there to stop him. If Sephiroth was there he'd have crushed Kuja with TK and cut him to pieces.


Which holds zero relevance, try using your brain. Just because his will is too strong for Garland, does not mean he has the will of Sephiroth. Yes you can assume he can restrain people because he has done it in a weaker form, duh. He has held 8 people and tortured them, at the same time held back the most powerful spell on the planet, yes in his weaker form.


Did Sephiroth use all of his powers? No. Was he just toying around? Yes.

And the big factor here, was PIS in play? Yes.

Unfortunately for you, PIS won't be involved here.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Umm no, the fact that he neeeded them to go to a specific spot to teleport them,
Yes, like those SS' I posted. They was all standing in the same spot.

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/5356/kujaoptele4en9.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/19/kujaoptele5dq3.jpg
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3904/kujaoptele6ss3.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/8185/kujaoptele7oz1.jpg

Are they standing in the same spot? No!
Was Kuja in another dimension when he casted the spell? Yes!
Could Kuja even see them? No!
Was Kuja in critical condition when he saved them all? Yes!

Oh, and as for your "Kuja won't be able to find him" crap.... he would be able to sense him.

Proof Kuja can sense: http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/9513/kujasenseqh3.jpg



No. The fact he didn't choose to do it, other then when he actually did, proves absolutely nothing.

Teleporting someone with magic, IS something Kuja CAN do. If you are REALLY trying to say that it would make an ounce of difference if they was moving...... well, thats one very sad argument.



Lets all think about that for a second shall we.... would Kuja even get a small cut from Bahamuts megaflare while in Trance?
As for faster, he got to Gaia and opened a way to Crystal World, BEFORE the fastest ship in the game managed to get to Gaia!

Just because all this stuff ain't in a nice flashy CGI movie, like Sephiroth, don't disprove it.



Don't pull this BS on me, JUST DON'T!
Cloud from the game has NOTHING above Zidane. Don't pull this comparison shit on me by comparing Cloud, from the movie, with Zidane, from a PSONE game.

Kuja did not get owned by anyone, unlike Sephiroth.
Kuja reached the conclusion of his natural life span. That is NO F****** WAY ANYWHERE NEAR GETTING KILLED BY CLOUD & CO.
Kuja, on the other hand, managed to kill Zidane & EVERY SINGLE ONE OF HIS ALLIES.


We only follow one body, the rest just fall over and die on the way to their reunion.
That one body is seen WALKING over land.
That one body is seen taking a boat ride.

If Sephiroth(Jenova) can teleport and fly, ect....
Then why in the entire game does he ONLY EVER use it to run away?
.... Yet, you still claim he can do it at will. Why do you see Kuja's abilities differently?



That single power was CONTAINED/held back by Sephiroth, not stopped.
If Sephiroth did contain an ultima beam, it would not dissipate.
I remind you I said IF.


No, you believe that it would be stopped.
Show me Sephiroth stopping a direct attack, like Genesis' fira.
Note: It is not proven that Kuja can't simply fire at least 4 beams on his first shot.


Link to that meaning he is 100% correct about everything he says, or it's an opinion.


Obviously he don't know EVERYTHING, he even admits to that. So he ain't lying, just incorrect.


He clearly wasn't even trying when it took him that long.
Download a better res version then whats on youtube and you can clearly determine that.
I'll give you a link: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OMLBXZO7


Wrong again. DL the above movie and it should become clear to you.
EVERY shot after the 1st is INSTANT.


Link to Sephiroth freezing anyone with any real power, or it didn't happen.
Note: I mean a PERSON, not a lifeless building.


1st part is your theory.
In no fight Sephiroth has been in has he ever..... EVER instantly appeared behind someone.



Fix'd.
So you don't misinterpret, We are talking about Sephiroth using his sword here, not his "almighty" will.


He gets stronger, yes.
He gets faster? Link or no dice.


He NEEDED to tank those firas because he ain't capable of the speed you are assigning him.

Ultima>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Fira.



Stop acting like an ignorant fanboy, thanks.



Then your "logic" is flawed.


Just like he was SOOO fast he dodged all those firas? Again, link to Sephiroth getting faster in AC or it didn't happen.


I said we're judging his endurance.
First of all, thats irrelevant.
Second of all, the FACT that he was right next to it and didn't take it.... Which IS how it happens. My logic concludes that he wouldn't of survived.

And since Odin nuking Clerya is superior to a temple collapsing.
Kuja's ultima is superior to Odin nuking Cleyra.
I can conclude that Sephiroth WOULD NOT have the endurance to survive an attack by Ultima.


If Sephiroth can't survive a barrage of slashes from Cloud, then he won't be surviving Ultima.

Sorry, but Kuja lost the first "round" of the battle.
The party defeated Garland(someone stronger than base-form Kuja), and after that, they owned Kuja too. Then, after being defeated, he absorbed the souls of the Invincible, turned Trance, and the rest you already know.
The fact is: The party is stronger than base-form Kuja, and can beat him.


And you asked me to give proof of AC Sephiroth being able to cast magic.
Where do I start?
1) Sephiroth is 100% Jenova, and as showed many times in FFVII, Jenova's body can cast magic without Materia.
2) The Lifestream is the source of magic in FFVII, and Sephiroth have total control over the Negative Lifestream, so...
3) The creators already said that AC Sephiroth is above any other of his previous forms.

I think that's enough.


And yes, I thought that Seph could beat Kuja, in the past. But I don't think like that anymore.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Could Kuja teleport them whenever he wanted with their guards up? No.
Wrong again, fruit cake.
Kuja teleported them while Necron was standing right in front of them.
To say their guard was down is preposterous.


Thats speculation at best.
Choosing not to do something =/= Don't have the ability to.

Did he choose to teleport them across dimensions, even though he was hurt and couldn't see them? Yes.


He clearly choose where to drop them off, after he teleported them from Necron. So, the correct answer is "YES".


Could Kuja teleport them before that, because he has to power too? Yes.


I was CLEARLY being sarcastic.
Can't tell that? How old are you, mentally?


I'm glad my attempts of humor are appreciated, this topic needed some after all this "Kuja is better then my fav villain, so ima throw a tantrum" crap.



Kadaj: "Look at what brother was hiding, powers forged in the lifestream. With this materia, those powers will be ours!"

-Blatantly shows a dependence for materia.
-Shows power needs to be leeched from an outside source to use magic.


Above quote anyone? Link, or it ain't how it happens.


The only time he took them all on, he got owned. Vincent had to save him.

And he didn't toy around with Kadaj.



The irony......


Dissidia is a game where all characters will be balanced. This is an entirely irrelevant statement.

Kuja is seen freely flying about the place in Dissidia.



Wow.... YOU completely miscomprehended the entire point of my post. Let me get you a bib, cut little guy, yes you are..... yes you are!

Cait Sith says that Sephiroth is out of their leagues. (Which is how he is able to do that)
Well, Kuja would also be out of their league.
So, you can't really argue that because Sephiroth can torture a bunch of weaklings in comparison, he can do it to Kuja.

Did the little guy get that? OH NO! You spilled "FAIL" sauce down your bib.



Aww, poor lil guy needs a dyper change now?

Garland. Zidane. Garnet. Mikoto. Steiner. Quina. Vivi. Amarant. Freya.

All WERE there. All got thrown aside, because unlike Sephiroth, Kuja ain't a fudge-packing retard that don't know how to get things done.

COMPREHEND THAT!


True. However, the fact his will IS powerful IS confirmed.
You can't say Sephiroth, from FFVII, has a more powerful will then Kuja, from FFIX.

Sure, you can list all the things Sephiroth's will has accomplished, but you still can't prove it.
They come from two completely different universes. Any attempt to say Sephiroths will is stronger then Kuja's will be laughed at.



Correct.
Does that mean anything other then Sephiroth is an over arrogant, "Know-it-all"? For all anyone knows Sephiroth used 90% of his powers.
If you want to dispute that with... "NOOz, he usez'd da oniy 1% of 'is powerz", then I have this to say: Link, or it didn't happen.

GOOD DAY.

And a small correction on your description of AC's Omnislash, UltimaKuja... Omnislash Version 5 isn't just a "barrage of slashes".
It's stated by the creators that the attack happened in an instant, meaning that all of Cloud's strikes during that scene, happened in less than a second(in an instant). We were watching that scene in slow-motion.
And Omnislash Version 5 is a spiritual attack, not a physical one. This is why Cloud's body and his swords, were phasing through Sephiroth's body like ghosts. And this is why, after Cloud stopped attacking him, Sephiroth's physical body was intact.

Resuming: Omnislash Version 5 happens in less than a second, and attacks directly the enemy's spirit/soul.
The nature of Omnislash Version 5 and the nature of Kuja's Ultima, are completely different. They shouldn't be compared.

Originally posted by SHM
Sorry, but Kuja lost the first "round" of the battle.
The party defeated Garland(someone stronger than base-form Kuja), and after that, they owned Kuja too. Then, after being defeated, he absorbed the souls of the Invincible, turned Trance, and the rest you already know.
The fact is: The party is stronger than base-form Kuja, and can beat him.


You missed the plot of FFIX, I'm afraid.
Kuja obtains the souls from the "eye in the sky", Correct? Yes.
Then he flys down from the Invincible and battles you in order for you to make him angry enough to Trance.
That's why he torments you all the way through the battle.

Yes, TECHNICALLY, you can say he lost.
However, its no where near to the truth. Trance does not recover your strength, it enhances it. After he trances, does he look tired, wounded or hurt? No.

Fact is: He wasn't even trying.

Originally posted by UltimaKuja
Yes, like those SS' I posted. They was all standing in the same spot.

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/5356/kujaoptele4en9.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/19/kujaoptele5dq3.jpg
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3904/kujaoptele6ss3.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/8185/kujaoptele7oz1.jpg

Are they standing in the same spot? No!
Was Kuja in another dimension when he casted the spell? Yes!
Could Kuja even see them? No!
Was Kuja in critical condition when he saved them all? Yes!
You've posted these before, and like i said, its not against their will, Kuja was never able to do it against their will.

And another huge point here, prove that Kuja can do it instantly without needing to prep or do anything, if he can do it instantly it could be a battle feat, but its not. It would also explain why Kuja has never been able to do it as a battle feat. It's no different then Sephiroth and his intangeable feat. If Kuja can teleport people instantly without needing to prepare or anything, then Sephiroth can go intangeable and be unharmed by anything.


"Kuja won't be able to find him" <-- I don't recall ever saying that so i don't know where that quote is from. Sensing him is totally different from being able to react to his speed.


The thing is, we never actually see Kuja do it, for all we know he needs a ton of time to prepare to teleport other beings, which would explain why he required them to go to a certain spot on disc 3, and why he has never done it as a battle feat, or in mid-battle when he's about to lose.

There is no evidence he can do it instantly on a whim, against speedy people like Sephiroth.



Does Trance improve Kuja's defense? No.

Thats not a battle feat, he has to open a portal to move around, its not instant teleportation, it won't help him in a battle. It will help him travel far distances sure, but in a battle it won't help him.

Sephiroth will behind him in a split second, Kuja won't have the time to open up a portal and escape.


You're in denial but the fact still remains, Cloud has feats far above Zidane, do you honestly think Zidane can basically fly around like superman chopping up buildings like Cloud? Can you really picture that? Zidane had TONS of cutscenes from the game.


Kuja was getting owned by the party, why else did he resort to going kamikaze? He was losing. Sorry but it's the truth.

Huh? No Sephiroth had a bunch of bodies walking over the planet, one was seen on the boat, then flew away, one was teleported into the temple of the ancients and teleported out, one was seen in the city of the ancients then flew away, etc.


Because flying can be used as a battle feat, so can teleporting, its common sense, and it has been shown, AC, even in KH, Nomura had Sephiroth teleporting around. But there is no evidence at all that proves Kuja can teleport people instantly without needing to prep, or time to do it. Which would explain why he has never done it in a battle or used it as an offensive attack, or why he needed them to go to certain spots.


It would be contained with Kuja, then Sephiroth would just teleport behind him and kill him.


Well whats more powerful, a single Holy, or a single Ultima? Answer, Holy. One single Holy is capable of wrecking a planet, One single Ultima shot isn't, unless a bunch more are fired. Well one took that long to charge, if he was going to try to fire 4 on his first shot logically it would take even longer, and Sephiroth would have even more time to kill him.


It's common sense, no video game developer would have a character lie for zero reason at all, Bugenhagen whole role in the game is obviously to give the player information about the planet.

.. Thats nonsense, Bugenhagen studies the planet, and he's there to give the player information, there is no reason at all they would put him in the game to give the player incorrect information, thats pointless.

Not even that, but lets look at it with common sense here, The white materia Holy is the antithesis of Black materia Meteor. It's the only thing powerful enough to stop Meteor so it should be atleast as powerful, Meteor is capable of wrecking the entire planet itself, erradicating just about the entire population of the planet. Holy being the antithesis and the most powerful spell, is capable of doing atleast that.


Nothing suggests that if he tries harder the spell will be more powerful, if Vivi tries harder will his Fire be as powerful as Firaga? Or if Dagger tries harder, will her Cure heal as much as Curaga? No. A spell is a spell. The only way it gets more powerful is if the character gets more powerful.

No, instant is under a split second, like Sephiroth teleporting into the room was instant. Kuja clearly took longer then that. It's all irrelevant anyway since the first powerup takes a few seconds.

End of FF7 before the fight, Sephiroth holds all 8 members up and tortures them. A weaker Sephiroth might i add.

No its not "theory" it's logic. His weak remnant Loz is even capable of doing that, who is basically just a small fraction of Sephiroths power. Sephiroth was stated as the supreme character of the FF7 world by the creators themselves, and in the FF7 world they have character like Chaos Vincent and Omega Weiss, who can blink around as fast as DBZ characters.


Huh? The moment he thinks, it happens duh, his TK works on a thought, its his MIND controlling the physical objects to move or hold. Like in AC he looks, and it falls. In FF7 he appears, the whole party gets lifted off their feet.

Once again this is where your brain and logic comes in. SOLDIERs become stronger by having a bit of Jenova cells infused with them. Lets take Zack for example, he was infused with Jenova cells, and he was capable of dodging multiple machine guns all firing at him with complete ease. CC Sephiroth was capable of outclassing him in speed, him being part Jenova and part human from birth, after that he lost his body, and gained control over body parts of Jenova, he was capable of teleporting and doing a ton of Jenova powers. Now in AC, he was completely Jenova, the entity itself, so imagine the few cells taht turned regular humans into SOLDIERs who can dodge bullets, then Jenova entity itself. Even his remnant who was a fraction of is power was capable of speed blitzing skilled fighters.


Do you have a comprehending problem? Or just slow-minded? The title says AC Sephiroth, what part of that don't you understand? The one who fought Genesis was CC Sephiroth before gaining his powers or getting his new body, i've already explained to you a couple times already.


Ignorant because I'm posting logic and facts? Stop posting immature little pictures thinking you're funny when you're just being pathetic. Grow the fcuk up.


No it's not. Kuja hasn't proven himself or has fought anyone even remotely close to Sephiroth speed, nothing suggests he can handle it.


Read above, while opening up your mind.


Sephiroth has infinite endurance, he cannot get tired because his body is Jenova, he doesn't sweat or anything.

Actually it IS relevent it's like me giving out examples of how Kuja when he was a little kid, then saying thats why he cannot beat AC Sephiroth.
AC Sephiroth and CC Sephiroth are different, AC Sephiroth gained a huge more amount of power, and has a different body.

Uhh he teleported out? Duh.


First of all thats FF7 Sephiroth, and thats one of the most fallacious logic i've ever heard.

The fact that Sephiroth didn't even die in the temple of ancients, he teleported out, and the fact that it was FF7 Sephiroth, not AC Sephiroth.

Kuja wouldn't survive Omnislash either, Omnislash isn't a physical attack it's a spiritual attack.

Originally posted by UltimaKuja
Wrong again, fruit cake.
Kuja teleported them while Necron was standing right in front of them.
To say their guard was down is preposterous.

Fruit cake? Good one, you must think you're so cool. It's funny because you don't realize how pathetic you are.

.. That makes no complete sense, it's like saying Cloud had his guard up fighting Enemy1, so it's impossible for Sephiroth to stab him from behind.

But the point is, there is no proof Kuja can teleport his enemies instantly, without needing to prep, or time for prep. Which explains why he's unable to do it throughout the game, or in combat, or why he needed them to go to a specific spot, or in the battles.


Did he have the entire necron battle to prepare to do that? Yes. Was anyone able to harm him wihile he prepare to do that? No. Could he do it instantly in a battle? No.


No, you are clearly being immature. You are obviously pretty young, but mentally you act like an elementary school kid, why don't you just go google some more nerd pictures?


Who's throwing a temper tantrum? I'm not. I'm laughing because you're funny, in a sad way.


Yeah, thats when he got materia. The 3 men had no materia before that but had a little bit of power over the negative lifestream, because they are Sephiroth remnants, which is why they were able to summon the shadow creepers. Sephiroth has 100% control over the negative lifestream as he is the creator of it.


Already proved you wrong? Shadow creepers, they're magic, did Kadaj and friends have materia at that time? No.


Did you have trouble comprehending the movie? Cloud was basically emo and had geostigma when he first fought them. After he started getting better, he fought 2 of them and beat them both, then owned Kadaj.


LOL, god how i hate debating with little kids.

I never said ANYTHING about "LEAGUES" the whole entire point of me posting that quote was to show you that Sephiroth can TK and TORTURE his people. So i don't know why you are starting to discuss "leagues" when it holds no relevance to the topic we were discussing in the first place

You asked me to prove Sephiroth can torture with TK, and i posted that. Leagues has NOTHING to do with it.

Aren't you embarassed posting your pathetic comments after making yourself look like an idiot?


LOL I feel sorry for you, i really do. I hope you're not like this in real life. Seriously, don't you get embarassed? I mean saying crap like that just spells "loser" on your forehead.


And? Those guys in terms of power and ability are nothing to Sephiroth.


Powerful compared to the FF9 maybe, but in terms of feats, Sephiroth has far more. His willpower was able to stop physical things and even the most powerful spell on the planet, his willpower is so powerful that he could will himself to not die and force himself from merging with the lifestream, even the director and character designer of the final fantasy series praises Sephiroths willpower. Kuja has never done anything like that with his will


Once again this is where your brain comes in, its been stated Sephiroth became the new evolution of Jenova, and all of Jenova's powers have been mentioned and shown throughout the series, Sephiroth has displayed his TK powers, the power of the lifestream has been explained in FF7, and it's feats have been shown, Sephiroth indeed has control over this as its been stated and shown. Sephiroth has been stated to be the supreme character of FF7 world, which means he's even more powerful then Chaos Vincent who can basically smack the planet to quake, Omega Weapon, Minerva, etc.

I got a question, is kuja the strongest guy in ff9?

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
I got a question, is kuja the strongest guy in ff9?

Hard to know.
Normal Kuja? No, because Garland is stronger than him.
Trance Kuja? Maybe... But some people think that Necron is stronger than him.

Sephiroth ever destroyed a planet?
Nope?
He loses. Simple as that.

That's not sound dude.

Goku can destroy a planet, yet Superman, who cannot, would stomp Goku in an all out fight.

Simply being better at busting isn't enough of an argument to grant you the win.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Goku can destroy a planet, yet Superman, who cannot, would stomp Goku in an all out fight.


your opinion.

There is no "opinion" about that. You presented nothing to that debate, and then tried to use Superman from the JL cartoons to discredit him. So stfu.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
There is no "opinion" about that. You presented nothing to that debate, and then tried to use Superman from the JL cartoons to discredit him. So stfu.

everybody can make a mistake. and next time try to differentiate an opinion and facts.

Destruction power does not = win.

A person with a grenade will not kill a person with a gun faster.

I thought Last Order was not canon. Not that Zack dodging all that fire is out of character since well...he is enhanced and all that shit. Just making sure what is canon and what is not.

BTW I think Kuja should win, but I'm a copout and not argue about it because I simply do not have the devotion to enter an endless debate.

Keep it up you 2...I'm learning stuff about both chars.

Edit Just noticed someone said Cloud went through Bahamut's flare without damage...I was under the impression he was wounded/killed and was healed/revived by Aerith. I swear I read somewhere that Cloud actually died, but that must have been from my days in GameFAQs and people hardly post sources there so I don't know. It still looked like he wasn't going to make it if it wasn't for Aerith.

He died when Yazoo shot him at the end of the movie.

Well yeah that much is certain.