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I'm jumping the gun on this one, mostly because I just read the online comic and I was really impressed with it. It was a refreshing departure from the others. It had some cool images, but what I liked about it most was that its explaining backstory, not simply the events preceeding the episode. (both these features are unlike the previous 9 comics) Its nice to see Grievous as a character, the self admitted great general with the bumbling army.

I have high hopes for this episode tonight. From the comic, it continues to look like it will deliver.

And? Did it?

Yeah. It wasn't fantastic, there was a major plot point I didn't like, but on the whole a good episode that really moved the series.

Beautiful episode, need more like it. Fisto is such a badass, at least his cocky little shit partner got gunned down.

They need to build their characters better though, it's too predictable, anytime a Jedi starts ignoring the code and starts putting their own desires first, they die.

What was the plot point you didnt like Ordo?

Gor.

Gotta watch it still ...

I liked this episode a lot. Definately changed the way I thought about Fisto.

Only 2 negative things in my opinion:

- When Fisto said they needed to retreat and Grievous seals all the blast doors, Fisto says they will have to fight after all. They could have easily cut trough those doors with their lightsabers or with a thermal detonator as the clone commander suggested.

- Gore... which species does he belong to, how did he end up in that lair, how did he become Grievous' pet... He just raises to much questions...

I dont think he's that big of a deal, its just like Jabba's rancor really.


But how awesome would it be to see a whole bunch of them, all armored, with riders on them charging into a massive scale battle. They should do a massive scale battle in one episode, set it on like Dathomir and have a bunch of witches riding down on battle rancors. They need to emphasis the 'War' in 'Clone Wars', so far it's like 'Clone Skirmishes'.

I thought this episode was allright. Still not great, run of the mill episode without cringe moments. But Grievous is turning out to be a major loser. That doesn't go down well with me.

Originally posted by queeq
I thought this episode was allright. Still not great, run of the mill episode without cringe moments. But Grievous is turning out to be a major loser. That doesn't go down well with me.

As to Grievous, this episode kind of saved him imo. He blames his army for his failures (rightly or wrongly) and at least gives him an excuse. However, had two points: the part where Nahdar is looking over all the "trophies"...I don't know how they can say "OMG its so tragic!" when we hadn't seen grievous kill one single Jedi. Secondly, Grievous admitting failure sets up something to change that failure. That was a sign of hope for me...that they might actually address some improvements that make the droid army functional.

My question to you is, what are you looking for in a "great" episode.

Well, I think I'd like to see a more continuous story, like you as I remember correctly. It's all little bitty stories that never really get problematic. It seems every problematic situation is fairly easily resolved. It seems like the CW is no biggie, no big stakes. The Separatists suck, the Clones win... it's all a bit like that. Occasionally something pretty good pops up (like Ventress's last appearance) but then it goes away again. It's like... nothing really matters.... that bothers me.

K. I agree on all of them, but we're starting to see plot trajectory I think.

Maybe its just me.

I think so.

I see no other plot trajectory other than clones fight separatists. And we already know the outcome.

Well Duh. We knew the plot outcome through the prequels too.

But the plot is not: clones fight Separatists. It seems to be: Jedi fight Separatists. Maybe the series should be renamed: Jedi Wars, because thats all we seem to get.

Besides Anakin and Kenobi fighting bats... I have to wait THREE WEEKS to see what I totally expect to be a disastrous episode. Besides, how insulting. Pirates can capture Dooku but the Jedi can't?

Lair of Grievous

Net Reaction: Positive
Season 1 Record: (5)-5
Summary:
This is the second solid episode in a row (the first time in this series that has happened), I have yet to see a "great" episode, but Lair had finally tied this season's record. Unfortunately looking at the next at bat, that record is in jeopardy.

Pros:
Animation: This covers several bases here. First off, there was some real fluidity in the movements: the gentle sway and spinning torrent of Fisto's tentacles, the glassy reflectivity of Nahdar's eyes. The animation of Grievous was also fantastic, especially with him spidering around and swinging from the rafters, they really captured this unique stlye of movement well and it gave a lot of character to Grievous and the episode as a whole. Lastly, there were some exciting angles, like when Fisto stabs the cam a when the troopers fall down the whole that really expanded the visual dynamic.

Plot: There was actually intrigue here. We learned about Grievous, his Kaleesh race, his "upgrades," and most importantly, the rift between him and Dooku, betweeen Grievous and the droids. This is the first time really I felt the plot of the series was moved.

Combat: There is so much to talk about here. It was nice to see TACTICS (omg, a tactic) being used when the clones cabled Grievous' legs as Fisto and Nahdar took on the arms. This was awesome, creative, and original, and actually really pulled me into the show. Grievous also got some nice hits on the clones, and I love the sounds of him dicing them even though you cant see it. Grievous also develoeped a nice fighting style where he can use his rotating hands for more than just intimidation. I really thought that was ace. (and it had good sound too) I also loved when Nahdar killed the first Magna guard, he pucked up the pieces with the force and chucked them into another. This was also nice to see the force used in combat in this way. Lastly, the Fisto vs Grievous battle was just sex...Fisto slipping into the fog and popping out again and the pacing was furious, the camera angles creative, and really it was just awesome seeing his tentacles dance after him as he flips around. The saber spinning ignited in the air was a stretch, but that slice and catch was beautiful. Again good camera work.

Fisto: Unlike Luminara who was not really developed at all (beyond strict and b*tchy) Fisto has an attitude and a character. While his smile wasn't captured very well, he did wink at Ahsoka (which I thought was awesome) and his casual escape crouching on the fighter was badass. He also pwnt Nahar and Fil on opening the door. Even in dangerous situations, Fisto kept his cool and stayed in control. That is a jedi master. The accent was a nice touch too. Fisto moves with intention and purpose. That is nice to see.

Environment: The ambiance was also stellar, lots of shadows and fog that really set a great mood throughout the episode. Together with the Kaleesh statues and racks of Grievous' spare parts, this episode had an artistic side that has yet been unseen and served it well.

Nahdar: He died. Thank god. A Jedi has died. Mon Calamari was a nice species to tap too and he was done well, right down the the flappy mouth and eye movement. Fun to see an original character and a creative one.

Theme: This episode had a great fortune cookie that was really referenced throughout the episode. Even better was this episode had great resolution, with Fisto reporting to the council he will one day sit on. Answering power with power is a real topic that has epic ramifications in the world today. Together with the animation and environment, this episode was a clean and cohesive package deal. Good work.

Cons:
Phantom: When Grievous's mask was being removed and then cut to commercial, I actually shouted no at the TV. We have all these beautiful statues of Grievous as a warrior, we take of his mask, but we can't see his face? I thought this was unfair.

Gor: While this battle was beautiful, with Jedi actually doing damage to the thing before being able to kill it, the part where Gor smacks Fil into the ground and his body goes limp, and Fisto's noble finish ala Kenobi and the Acklay, I felt it was an unnecessary plot distraction. Grievous doesn't seem one to keep pets and spending a little bit more time working on Nahdar was probably a better option.

His heart was in the right place, but...: While it was nice to see a Jedi die, Nahdar did everyhting wrong, he was overzealous, overemotional, overconfident, even cocky. It felt a bit like: if you dont follow the code, you die. The jedi compromised all their beliefs during the clone wars, so we better see more die. I also wish Fisto would have been a bit more upset about Nahdar's death. I felt it was a bit too "oh, well."

There are so many: If Grievous has all these trophies....WHY HAVEN'T WE SEEN OR HEARD ABOUT THEM!

Eye-cams. These guys start to look out of place. They fit Jabba's palace in ROTJ, but do they really go EVERYWHERE else? Doesn't anyone else make a different model? They seem ubiquitous now.

Clones: Weak sauce. Their unit is not identified and to my knowledge was not in the move. While its nice to finally see Grievous hack some, Niner and Bel die sauntering into a ship, Jag drops his gun and Fil fires off a few shots before getting tailwhipped.

What I want to see next:

The answer to this weeks episode. Grievous hate the droids and they are incompetent. How does Grievous re-integrate into the Seperatist movement? How do the droids improve? This is a critical question for the series. Will it be answered?

Back to the Anakin/Kenobi doldrums....Weequay pirates and a giant bat...

The droid dicing up and then slamming into droid #2 thing was already done by Mace.

And while on the subject, which of the two CW series do you prefer, so far?

I prefer the previous one, personally. Much better actual warfare I feel.

Mace thew little pieces etc. I felt what Nahdar did was more realistic and visually poetic.

As to the two series...

The Gendy series was well done, but it is HIGHLY styalized. Its kind of annyoing to see Mace demolish an army or Shaak take on 12 Magna guards, or to see SPHATs blown up because they're scratched with a (wtf) LANCE...

The Gendy series has some fantastic moments (V-19s, Fordo shocking Durge in the head), but it also has some annoying ones (lance fighting, those annoying fat blue rats). I can say the same for the Filoni series.

However, the Gendy series is limited in scope and ability due to its short run-times and style (which isn't bad, it has many positives as well). While the Gendy series is over and limited, Filoni's series has a long way to go and tons of potential. I really can't say that the battle of Munnilist was better than Christophsis. That 5 minute sequence is pretty damn amazing. While Episode II of Gendy with Fordo and the ARCs beats all current clone action (except for Gree vs creepy hair boy), I like a lot of the Filoni series, even just on the basis of animation. If it was live action, I'd like that more lol.

So, I'm not really ready to make that final call, but I fully expect to like the Filoni series more. If I was given the choice of what we have with Gendy and what we NOW have with Filoni, that is a tougher call.

I liked this episode, made GG out to be bad-ass.

Originally posted by Robtard
I liked this episode, made GG out to be bad-ass.

A sneaky one.

He pulled out a blaster to kill the retarded-Jedi-whose-name-eludes-me. That's sneaky. That's clever. That's evil. But if any of you have read the books, comics, or seen the previous series, it makes General Grievous out to be a badass in all arenas.

He needs to kick more ass. I get that he'd have to cheat against top tier Jedi. But I want some fodder. Two or three Jedi that go to take him down and he just slaughters them. Plain ol' outmaneuvering. Allegedly, he's a better combatant than Ventress.

Notice, he killed the jedi (Nahdar Vebb) with a clone DC-17 pistol.


Which begs the question...why was he tugging it around? least in ROTS he used a Separatist weapon.

But again: many repetitions from the movies: eye cams and lines...

I'm thinking maybe they slipped on his model during the making of the episode. I'm sure someone on staff went 'Hey, wait... that's a clone pistol... shit, too late,' because Grievous used his own weapon in earlier episodes with his blaster.

Maybe he took one off a body. I doubt with all that time that goes into animation that they accidentally chose the wrong weapon.

Maybe they should have given him a Tommy blaster instead.

Originally posted by queeq
Maybe he took one off a body. I doubt with all that time that goes into animation that they accidentally chose the wrong weapon.

They didn't. They probably just didn't want to pay to model an E-5, but you'd think with the battle droids in the episode, it would have already been modeled.

If there were clones in that scene, it might have made sense...but it makes no sense for him to carry a clone pistol around his home when he has a plethora of other weapons.

There were clone bodies lying around, he might have been lazy. Or he felt it was cruel to use a Republic weapon.

Frankly, I was kind of hoping for the former Padawan Jedi (who's name keeps escaping me - Nahdar?) to not get killed, but to turn to the Dark Side. That's a plotline I'd like to see them explore, since in the movies you only see Anakin fall to the Dark Side (which is sort of a special case), and I think the books and comics handle it horribly (revolving Force door anyone? Yeah, no.). So I'd be curious as to how this series handles that sort of thing.

Originally posted by queeq
There were clone bodies lying around, he might have been lazy. Or he felt it was cruel to use a Republic weapon.

After watching the episode thrice, I tried to check this. I dont think there were any clone bodies in that area of the lair.

Originally posted by Peach
Frankly, I was kind of hoping for the former Padawan Jedi (who's name keeps escaping me - Nahdar?) to not get killed, but to turn to the Dark Side. That's a plotline I'd like to see them explore, since in the movies you only see Anakin fall to the Dark Side (which is sort of a special case), and I think the books and comics handle it horribly (revolving Force door anyone? Yeah, no.). So I'd be curious as to how this series handles that sort of thing.

Meh, death is easier than turning. It would be nice to see a jedi corupted by the war to the darkside. It would also be nice to see Jedi who leave the order because of the war. I think these are concepts for season II though.

I hope so, those stories are usually well written in the comics.

Originally posted by Peach
Frankly, I was kind of hoping for the former Padawan Jedi (who's name keeps escaping me - Nahdar?) to not get killed, but to turn to the Dark Side. That's a plotline I'd like to see them explore, since in the movies you only see Anakin fall to the Dark Side (which is sort of a special case), and I think the books and comics handle it horribly (revolving Force door anyone? Yeah, no.). So I'd be curious as to how this series handles that sort of thing.

Two words: Quinlan. Vos.

I'd like to see Quinlan Vos turned. Then 66 issued against him.

That's already happened, in the comics.

"Endgame", I think the issue was called?

That's prolly why it won't show up in CW.

Was 66 specifically cited in endgame?

If it was, I'm surprised there are still all thes dumb*sses running around saying clones were "pre-programmed" to execute Jedi.

Loved the episode

Grievous getting ambushed, his legs getting cut off, and then moving around like a spider... beatifully done, and quite creepy I might add

... and so were the saber battles, the camera work, the setting... I loved they included the Kaleesh statues, I never thought I'd see that in the series.
The trap door came out of nowhere, totally surprised me. Nadhar using the force to crush the magna guards, reminded me of The Force Unleashed....

And I absolutely loved the doctor (whichever number it was). Here there was a droid that actually reprimended Grievous, and Grievous didn't talk back or threaten to kill him, but actually gave escuses for his behavior.... I kept expecting Grievous to say or do something for the way the droid talked to him, but he never did, It actually made me laugh the way the doctor talked.... and besides, it didn't had an annoying voice....

and Fisto was a bad ass too... though I didn't like that he took the death of Nadhar to lightly...

Originally posted by Ordo
Was 66 specifically cited in endgame?

If it was, I'm surprised there are still all thes dumb*sses running around saying clones were "pre-programmed" to execute Jedi.

well order 66 was programmed into them, wasn't it?

how could they else have known what order 66 meant. For all they knew, it could have meant they had to get Palpatine some deathsticks or a jawa juice...

No. It wasn't. And the sheer ignorance of the majority of the fan base on this issue is personally sickening.

Order 66: In the event of Jedi officers acting against the interests of the Republic, and after receiving specific orders verified as coming directly from the Supreme Commander (Chancellor), GAR commanders will remove those officers by lethal force, and command of the GAR will revert to the Supreme Commander (Chancellor) until a new command structure is established.

"Order" doesn't necessarily mean "I order you to...", an "order" is also a type of legislation, of which there were many. Clone Commanders would know them just like any military commander knows the rules of his military. Clones "take order without question." They're not some sort of sleeper assassin army. "Order 66" the event was simply the mass-applicaiton of this contingency order. It was issued much earlier as part of GAR protocol.

Order 66 was used successfully many times in the war for Jedi like Vos or Bulq who couldn't stomach concepts like loyalty or honor and posed a risk to the Republic. The Jedi were too flaky to be trusted. Dooku was a Jedi and he started this whole war. 66 also requires lethal force. If the Jedi find out that you're onto them, even a whole bunch of you aren't going to be able to take them. I've seen them in battle: they're gods. I've seen them decimate armies and I'm not going to unleash that sort of damage on my own side because of sloppy execution or regulation. If GAR command, if the chancellor himself has actionable intelligence, why would I question that? I have a job to do and if there is a human traitor that's the equivalent of a WMD in my midst...there is no time. Point. Shoot. Kill.

Originally posted by Ordo
Was 66 specifically cited in endgame?

If it was, I'm surprised there are still all thes dumb*sses running around saying clones were "pre-programmed" to execute Jedi.

Yeah. It, specifically, was about what happens to a ton of jedi after Order 66 is activated, Vos included.

Oh. I was referring to 66 being used outside of the mass-66ing during ROTS.

Oh.

Meh, Vos has already escaped into the underworld by the time RotS is over... so too late I guess.

Though GL can always just ignore established EU and do it anyway, he's done it before.

They've even pushed that in this series.

Pushed what?

EU plotlines?

I haven't really seen any, besides Ventress popping up. I could be wrong.

No, I was saying that they've pushed it by NOT including EU plotlines, first and foremost being the Rex/Alpha debacle.

Originally posted by Gideon
A sneaky one.

He pulled out a blaster to kill the retarded-Jedi-whose-name-eludes-me. That's sneaky. That's clever. That's evil. But if any of you have read the books, comics, or seen the previous series, it makes General Grievous out to be a badass in all arenas.

He needs to kick more ass. I get that he'd have to cheat against top tier Jedi. But I want some fodder. Two or three Jedi that go to take him down and he just slaughters them. Plain ol' outmaneuvering. Allegedly, he's a better combatant than Ventress.

Is his cybernetic enhanced speed supposed to be a match to, or greater than Jedi/Sith precog? That aside from his overall swordsmanship (or lightsabremanship).

If so, I'd imagine some droids would be able to handle themselves well against Jedi, instead of just being little more than light obstacles, as they're made to be.

Greivous has Jedi envy. He hopes his parts will make him Jedi like. (hnce the lightsaber collectiong and fighting)

But currently, he seems to be sub-par. Given ROTS though, he seems to be capable. I'm guessing there is some sort of change here.

Or the old mantra of 'practice makes perfect.' He has supposedly fought many Jedi by the time of ROTS, though right now he's fought a small handful of the same Knights again and again. ermm

Well, they did try to fix that by showing the "trophies" in this episode, but it doesn't jive with the images. Grievous is ALWAYS shown failing and running away and they haven't even mentioned his kills when he's not on screen.

Int the gendy series, he took on FIVE jedi at once, including sitting and future council members. He killed TWO of them, in addition to Master Barreck. In the first episode of season 3, the council even mentions that "he's changing the face of the war."

In this series, Grievous can't even effectively take Ashoka. Even the "trophies" that Nahdar mentioned look like nothign more than padawan tails...and...has anyone ever complained that he's killed Jedi in the show? I cant remeber.

Does this series overwrite the old series, or do they coexist?

I hope Dooku has some action at some point, he hasn't done much.

I download the episodes, so they cut off right after the credits.

Well, the next episode is called "Dooku Captured"

...because the last 3 episodes haven't been about capturing people...

Hehehe

Episode 12 will be "Battledroid CAPTURED!"

Uh oh.

Originally posted by Ordo
Episode 12 will be "Battledroid CAPTURED!"

Jar Jar Captured!

jar jar in bondage?

Jar Jar's Fetish Revealed!

I think the target audience of underage perverts is a bit narrow for primetime cable.

How do you know?

Finally watched it (I watch online). One thing I noticed is that Grievous declared that he had taken the cybernetic enhancements in order to gain superiority. Conflicts kinda with his background, if anyone's read it.

SW, Eu and canon... it all conflicts.

Yeah that was an annoyance. But maybe he said it because he doesn't want to believe the Sith overpowered/destroyed his body, and thinks he is the ultimate warrior (as shown by his statues).

Yeah. I took it more as Grievous bein ignorant.

It doesn't HAVE to conflict, the problem is...it should be immediately apparent that it does not donflict.

We prolly need forums to fill the gaps Lucas et al leave in the SW universe. I guess we just discovered the purpose of these forums.

The problem I have with his supposed ignorance is those statues of himself with gradual upgrades, as if it happened over time whereas he was supposed to have gotten them all in one go after his 'accident.'

I dunno, I just think that sometimes Lucas bowls over continuity when his own projects need to.

He's making things up as he goes.

Hey REX...spot of curiosity...is your username after the Rex of CLone Wars or some other Rex?

I'd been thinking the same thing. ermm

His user name has been REX longer than the clone of that particular name has existed in the continuity, yes?

Yeah, but you're a douche bag.

*disses*

I'm gonna sic queeq on you.

No, Ordo, I didn't take my username from Rex, though I laughed when I heard that was his name and knew someone would ask. I got my username from Star Tours, at Disneyland.

Almost the same thing then.

So, as per REX's eralier comment about the conflicting background....I finally had the internet capacity to watch streaming video yesterday and I flipped through the episode commentaries. I dont think Filoni knows what he is doing.

Anyway, he said that he wanted to present Grievous this way, but noted that it conflicted with background in theory, but since it was only in theory and not directly conflicting it wasn't a problem.

In essence, it sums up what is wrong with this series. Its trying to be everything to everybody in every way and not step on anyones toes. Thus, it is just a big lump of mediocrity.

Indeed... I wonder how well the ratings are.

oops

Well, there are plenty of people, blogs, ForceCast, etc that shamelessly promote the series as one of the greatest things of all time.

...I don't think we're watching the same series.

Me neither.

Finally saw this one... it had great shots and a lot of potential but you saw the "surprises" coming a mile away. At least this was better than some others I saw recently...

It was.