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This has been in the news this week, some 15 year old lad was shot and killed by the cops in Greece which has fueled a week of rioting, the rioting spread to other countries.

This cannot be just because of one incident, sad as it may be.
The Anarchists seem to have used this as spark to light a dangerous fire.

Does it reflect a general unrest amongst the majority of people or a temporary thing?


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apparently "anarchists" are organizing international attacks on Greek embasies in Copenhagen and Moscow.

An editorial I was reading says it is the beginning of many such riots as poor economic times hit areas with large youth populations. If this is correct, this may in fact be more of what was going on in the French riots a few years back.

So why's it causing such a big stink? Pigs here kill people all the time and nobody cares.

Good for Athens.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
So why's it causing such a big stink? Pigs here kill people all the time and nobody cares.

speculation is that the lack of jobs for even well educated young people in Greece is the major grevience motivating the riots, the shooting just being the tipping point.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
So why's it causing such a big stink? Pigs here kill people all the time and nobody cares. Because it's Europe...and Europe happens to not be stuck in a Stone Age Mentality.

From what I understand, it's immigrant problems. Greece has a history of treating other ethnic groups badly, and this was the rallying point for the emigrant communities to take out their frustration.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Because it's Europe...and Europe happens to not be stuck in a Stone Age Mentality.
Are you sure it doesn't have something to do with the rarely talked about crappy race relations in various European countries? You know, how Americans get on out and talk about our problems but Europeans seem to like to just sweep them under the rug and pretend they don't exist?

Originally posted by Kinneary
Are you sure it doesn't have something to do with the rarely talked about crappy race relations in various European countries? You know, how Americans get on out and talk about our problems but Europeans seem to like to just sweep them under the rug and pretend they don't exist?

Are you comparing one country's international relations to a continent of many countries and their international relations?

You've obviously got no idea what Europe is like if you think cross-country tensions are just swept under the rug...

I also think considering our millennia of history of wars, empires, religious fractures and political divides along with the very unique cultures you find from country to country we as a continent do very well in getting along exceptionally well...

Compare that with your own nations few centuries of conquest and relatively uneventful history...

Yeah Europe is a far more harmonious continent than than the USA is a country...

Though I guess America is a product of Europe anyway...

I was responding to someone who compared the mentality of a continent of many countries to the mentality of one country. Nice to see you only tried to call the American on it, and not the European.

Originally posted by Kinneary
I was responding to someone who compared the mentality of a continent of many countries to the mentality of one country. Nice to see you only tried to call the American on it, and not the European.

Does that not demonstrate to you the unity of Europeans and make your point about "racial tensions" pretty invalid?

Aren't you both white? And in the UK? And isn't the study of just two people a pretty shitty way to make an analysis? Making your logic... retarded?

This is the reason I rarely post.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
From what I understand, it's immigrant problems. Greece has a history of treating other ethnic groups badly, and this was the rallying point for the emigrant communities to take out their frustration.

I don't think Greece has many blacks or Hispanics, so who are those cops harassing for kicks?

It makes me wonder how to say "Freeze, beaner!" in Greek...

Originally posted by Kinneary
Aren't you both white? And in the UK? And isn't the study of just two people a pretty shitty way to make an analysis? Making your logic... retarded?

This is the reason I rarely post.

He's German, lives in England now and then...i think.

I'm Scottish.

We don't have race problems in Europe really...its more religious conflict.

Also, the USA discusses these problems and we sweep them under the carpet?

By that you mean you confine black people to the lowest rungs of society and shoot any that cause too much trouble?

I dunno, maybe your were making a good point about the Balkans but...that hardly extends to all of Europe does it?

Also, rather than characterising people just by skin colour, "races" are split along more fine lines...which results in lots and lots of races of people of the same colour...i.e. Serbs, Slavs, Romani, Celts, Germans etc etc...(all based in the old tribal system...however they dont really exist much any more)

So essentially our "racial" problems as you call them are actually tribal...like Hutu and Tutsi of Rwanda.

My statement was more an attack on the person that criticized the USA unfairly, and wasn't a real attempt at analyzing the race relations of Europe. It was a broad generalization that doesn't hold weight under real scrutiny, much the same as I feel his statement was.

By no means do I want to start a real argument about the issue - I just take offense to the generally negative view of Americans (not just our government) that, in my past decade on the internet, far too many Europeans seem to have.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav

Also, rather than characterising people just by skin colour, "races" are split along more fine lines...which results in lots and lots of races of people of the same colour...i.e. Serbs, Slavs, Romani, Celts, Germans etc etc...(all based in the old tribal system...however they dont really exist much any more)

So essentially our "racial" problems as you call them are actually tribal...like Hutu and Tutsi of Rwanda.

Why is that? They look a like and still can't get along?

White American gangs like the Aryan Brotherhood and N.O. F.E.A.R. will take white people period. They don't care what language your grandparents spoke, which I think makes more sense. I mean if you have white skin what else matters (to them).

Trying to understand a racist never makes sense. Why should an American of German descent hate an American of Irish descent? Why should a black man hate a white man? The logic never works. We just have to wait for the racists to, eventually, die out.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Why is that? They look a like and still can't get along?

White American gangs like the Aryan Brotherhood and N.O. F.E.A.R. will take white people period. They don't care what language your grandparents spoke, which I think makes more sense. I mean if you have white skin what else matters (to them).

That's very humorous "they don't look any different, for what reason could the possibly fall out!?" However, it does kinda reflect badly on the American thought...judging books by the cover not the content.

In Europe most of the conflict is based on intellectual differences- religion, political affiliations, national identities- rather than simply the way someone looks...although ofcourse where someone was born and the colour of their skin is still a divide all though, i believe less so in Europe than in the States.

To that end, I would say the version of racism I was talking about makes more sense than the one you feel makes more sense.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I don't think Greece has many blacks or Hispanics, so who are those cops harassing for kicks?

It makes me wonder how to say "Freeze, beaner!" in Greek...

You need to maybe grow up a bit...you know...get passed the skin colour thing- once you do you'll see there is even more important stuff that divides us than if we are black or white...

I'm sorry, but if I understand this correctly, you're trying to say that European racists are more intellectual than American racists?

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I don't think Greece has many blacks or Hispanics, so who are those cops harassing for kicks?

It makes me wonder how to say "Freeze, beaner!" in Greek...

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Why is that? They look a like and still can't get along?

White American gangs like the Aryan Brotherhood and N.O. F.E.A.R. will take white people period. They don't care what language your grandparents spoke, which I think makes more sense. I mean if you have white skin what else matters (to them).

Haven't you ever read a history book, or observed foreign culture before? Maybe in the US the black/hispanic racial problems might be more prevalent, but they aren't the only ones being prejudiced around the world.


This line here:

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Why is that? They look a like and still can't get along?

Ok, why can't all these black gangs in LA get along, they all look alike.

Originally posted by Kinneary
I'm sorry, but if I understand this correctly, you're trying to say that European racists are more intellectual than American racists?

They probably have better reasons for it.

You know, I am not the world's biggest fan of the police, but I do respect that they lay their life in the line every day. People call them pigs, call them corrupt, or whatever. But they are judging all cops on the actions of a few.

What if I judged all blacks on the actions of a few? Or all hispanics on the actions of a few? What then? ****ing spics? ****ing *******? Would I be justified if I resorted to such mundane name calling?

The actions of a few have cops wired 24/7. These are officers with families, and they never know what a suspect is gonna do when confronted. Cops make a mistake, someone is dead, now cops are all bad. But a black guy kills a cop, and not all black people are bad. Fair? Equal? I think not.

Is there ever a good reason to judge someone by his skin color or loose political/racial affiliation?

Are we really willing to fall so far as to argue that our racists are better or worse than the others?

Originally posted by Kinneary
Is there ever a good reason to judge someone by his skin color or loose political/racial affiliation?

Are we really willing to fall so far as to argue that our racists are better or worse than the others?

It's not all 'you're black, I hate you' or anything like that. European history goes back further than American history, not to mention the many countries within Europe that have feuds, the feuds might start over something like land ownership and eventually spread to 'I hate you, you're Turkish' or something etc.

American racism by comparison....should really have been stamped out by now. Black people were freed from being slaves, given civil rights, finally have a President, and yet there is still racial fighting. Why?

I wouldn't say racial fighting. In fact, the recent election of a black president pretty much solidifies the fact that racist thoughts are something only held by an extreme minority.

Originally posted by Kinneary
I wouldn't say racial fighting. In fact, the recent election of a black president pretty much solidifies the fact that racist thoughts are something only held by an extreme minority. An extreme minority? Dude, that's the understatement of the year.

Originally posted by Kinneary
I wouldn't say racial fighting. In fact, the recent election of a black president pretty much solidifies the fact that racist thoughts are something only held by an extreme minority.

I dont think thats a fair comparison though, US has what, 300,000,000 population?
Of that, what was the percentage that
a) voted
b) voted for Obama and
c) voted against Obama just out of spite that he is black?

Plus all the hate-speeches, protests etc that have been happening since he won. IMO I couldn't care who is voted, black, white, asian, hispanic. I think its ridiculous that everyone is holding their hands up saying 'yay a black president' instead of 'yay a good leader'. It would take probably another 3 or so black presidents before the US could be considered at a racial equilibrium, to show that Obama's election was not just for show. I think electing one black man out of ~50 white men to lead the country is not something to celebrate as a racial achievement.

But that's me.

I never said that racial tension doesn't exist. I just said that it is an opinion held by an extreme minority. If there were really a ton of racists walking around the US, Obama would never have been voted in.

Originally posted by Kinneary
I never said that racial tension doesn't exist. I just said that it is an opinion held by an extreme minority. If there were really a ton of racists walking around the US, Obama would never have been voted in.

"opinion held by an extreme minority" - that's just the part I'm arguing.

Going by wikipedia:

Popular vote Obama 69,445,367 McCain 59,923,677

More than half the country didn't even vote. Maybe there are racists that just didn't vote.

Anyway it's going slightly off tangent, but to summarise earlier posts, Europe probably has better reasons for racial differences given there are many countries with many governments, economies, cultures, history etc. America is one country with one government, economy, history etc everyone shares it, everyone has equal rights now, so I don't think America has such a valid argument for current racism.

No one has a valid argument for racism.

Well, I think the Armenians have a pretty strong point against the Turks, for example. Although from a country-country perspective, not person-person.

If you think it's circular, you're right. No one has a valid reason for hating someone because of their ethnic origin or skin tone. In the end, it's all just stereotyping, and stereotyping is wrong. All whites don't hate blacks and all muslims don't want to kill Americans.

There is no justification for saying that one racist is smarter or better than another - because racism itself is idiotic. You can't justify it.

I'm not trying to justify it or anything, just so we're on even grounds here.

But there are 'better' reasons to feel racist against someone. Let's say Romania invades Bulgaria and slaughters thousands of people. The Bulgarians will have pretty strong racial feelings towards Romanians. I think that is a 'better' reason for racial hatred than a black kid hating a white kid because his distant relative who died decades before he was even born was a slave some hundred years ago.

You can say that that is a more "logical" or "understandable" reason, but I'd disagree with it being better, though I suppose that's just splitting hair.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
You can say that that is a more "logical" or "understandable" reason, but I'd disagree with it being better, though I suppose that's just splitting hair.

Hence why I used apostrophes; 'better'.


Originally posted by Kinneary
So the 30 year old moron who thinks that 3 times 3 is 6 is better than the 30 year old moron who thinks that 4 plus four 4 sixteen? Blind hatred is blind hatred. And, get this - they're both ****ing blind.

Yeah, I think pretty much everyone agrees racism is racism, its bad etc. We can move on from there now.

To quote Gav:

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav

To that end, I would say the version of racism I was talking about makes more sense than the one you feel makes more sense.

I don't think that EITHER makes sense.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
This coming from numero uno racist agent of Chaos himself. Don't try to back peddle now, traitor.

It's all about power, ***** mhm

Originally posted by Kinneary
I don't think that EITHER makes sense.

Nah, it's a bit like algebra, pretending it makes sense so you can come up with an answer. Or something.

I think this went off topic by the way, not sure what the Greek riots have to do with racism actually.

Pssh, my demon pawns will take one for the team.

Originally posted by Kinneary
I'm sorry, but if I understand this correctly, you're trying to say that European racists are more intellectual than American racists?

Not at all, however I feel there are perhaps more intellectual reasons which inspire racism across Europe as opposed to the reasons that one of your fellows and indeed yourself have said motivate American Racism.

I mean, so far you and another guy, Quinero or somebody or something like that...have basically said that the American racist thought is on the basis of skin colour. (You didn't out rightly say it BUT when it was said you didn't refute it, so I shall assume you agree with that assessment.) Now to be honest I think we can agree this is the worst form of bigotry- a hatred of someone based "on the colour of their skin" not "the content of their character".

Now what you find causes a lot of so called "racial tensions", lets remember you chose the term and I don't think it really fits, are more intellectually based problems.

For example politics, or religion or past conflicts in history. For example if a Frenchman belongs to the French race (or Frankish Tribe to be more accurate) then chances are he will have disputes with the Germans over a long history of political and even religious conflict. Keeping with the German theme Prussians might have troubles with the Catholic Southern states due to religious tension. There is also the ongoing tensions in the Balkans, the racial dispute hotspot of Europe as it has been since before the first world war. Continuing troubles and attacks from Serbs on Croats and Slavs on Serbs etc etc will continue to keep the fires of racism burning in those states.

Ofcourse, I think that modern day racial tensions in America probably do date back to the justifications of slavery so in that sense American Racism probably isn't really just about skin colour but about historical economics which have filtered down the generations in the form of white supremacy, black "African revivalists" etc

I do know racism exists in European countries...however I think problems like sectarianism- which are intellectual conflicts (all though mostly propagated by stupid people) are far more prevalent and they are certainly not swept under the rug as you suggested.

Oh and Kinneary this isn't about what makes sense...

Perhaps you should say "physical", or "appearence"?

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Again your missing the point. Its not that the racists are intelligent per se. Its that they are "racist" due to intellectual divides rather more "simple" ones.

Racism based on a persons skin colour is a simple divide.
Sectarianism is an intellectual divide. That doesn't make it intelligent to be a sectarian or mean all sectarians are intelligent.

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that the difference between racism and sectarianism is that one is racism and the other is sectarianism?

No because the correct description is intellectual and, well mundane.

I'm not going to pander to stupidity.

You'd get a lot farther in a life if you did.