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2 on 2 battle. 1 good and 1 evil vs 1 good and 1 evil.

Dante from DMC4

Sephiroth from FFVII: AC

vs

Kratos from GoW2

and

Xemnas from KH2

They have all of there abilities and weapons.

Who wins this 2 on 2 battle?

Probably team 1

Yeah, I say team 1 wins as well, but it would be a good fight.

dunno about that, Kratos>Dante, and Xemnas to the words of some has minor reality warping, enormous power and speed overall against Sephiroth who is a barely enhanced human...

Originally posted by Burning thought
Sephiroth who is a barely enhanced human...

That's the same thing as calling Kain(or Demitri), "a mere vampire".

not really, explain!

SHM is almost near dead on right. He is mostly an enhanced human, like Sephiroth.

That didnt make sense at all

Originally posted by Burning thought
not really, explain!

Kain and Demitri are much more than mere vampires, as Sephiroth is much more than an enhanced human.

Yes, Pre-Nibel Sephiroth(his weakest form) was an enhanced human, but after falling in the Lifestream and gaining it's knowledge and wisdom, together with the fact that he completelly merged with Jenova "to complete his revival"... It's absurd to call him now, a mere enhanced human.

Originally posted by Burning thought
That didnt make sense at all

I meant to put enhanced vampire, not human.

Pre Nibel Sephiroth was still capable of summoning supernovae, moving at godly speeds and possessing a nice range of materia at his disposal. I don't think there actually is a version of Sephiroth that qualifies as a barely enhanced human.

most of those things you mentioned are gameplay. Sephiroth never actually cast a canon supernovae and materia are not bound to the person meaning in a debate Sephiroth would only start with HIS equipment, since Materia can be anyones he wouldnt have any materia.

Actually, even if you wanted to completely disregard everything that takes place in the setting of a gameplay battle, the summon is recognised as his ultimate attack throughout the game world by members of his elite fanclub even by Crisis Core times, and as for the materia, as with his regular equipment, if it's something that he's consistently shown to carry on him, then by the unwritten rules of versus debates he should have access to it.

when is he consistently shown to carry it? how many times does he carry the same materia, he uses none in Advent children, his strongest incarnation for example.

most powers he uses are gameplay tbh and we dont even know if he has all the same powers in his current form (the one in this battle) anyway.

Keyword: If.

The most powerful materia featured in the game -- supernova -- is something he factually possessed in his arsenal, his preternatural speed, strength and agility can all be seen in cutscenes as such, he was capable of walking right through one of Ifrit's fire attacks (again, cutscene), and again, I'm talking purely about his pre Nibel incarnation.

Just to be clear, the "if" I was referring to would be this one:

"Actually, even if you wanted to completely disregard everything that takes place in the setting of a gameplay battle, the summon is recognised as his ultimate attack throughout the game world by members of his elite fanclub even by Crisis Core times, and as for the materia, as with his regular equipment, if it's something that he's consistently shown to carry on him, then by the unwritten rules of versus debates he should have access to it."

Not this one:

"Actually, even if you wanted to completely disregard everything that takes place in the setting of a gameplay battle, the summon is recognised as his ultimate attack throughout the game world by members of his elite fanclub even by Crisis Core times, and as for the materia, as with his regular equipment, if it's something that he's consistently shown to carry on him, then by the unwritten rules of versus debates he should have access to it."

And not your one either:

"when is he consistently shown to carry it? how many times does he carry the same materia, he uses none in Advent children, his strongest incarnation for example.

most powers he uses are gameplay tbh and we dont even know if he has all the same powers in his current form (the one in this battle) anyway."

The guy changes a lot through his games, what games does he have Supernova in and in what forms? and before you mentioned strength, whats his incredible strength feat?

He obviously acquired the materia sometime during his career as a Soldier, seeing as how by Crisis Core times he's recognised as possessing it. The only other piece of media it appears in is in the original game during the final battle.

As for strength, he was capable of entering a sword lock against two other first class Soldiers at once, one of them (Angeal), a being capable of effectively wielding the buster sword in combat (a weapon most humans would struggle to carry, let alone wield effectively in battle), and later on in the same battle enter another sword lock with the very same Angeal and overpower him by forcing him back. While it might not seem like such an obvious supernatural feat of strength, it still counts as a somewhat strong (in the sense that it's clearly beyond regular human physical based strength) showing in the department.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OCK50Dhox0I

Then its not consistent if its only in one game...

I think ive seen it or something similiar but it not something worth bringing up when theres a guy like Kratos in here tbh, and Dante with gilgamesh.

Enhanced human? Crisis Core maybe is part human, but AC Sephiroth is no human at all.

His 'will' can do supernatural things like stop/move physical/nonphysical things. The power of the lifestream grants him control over energy/life/magic, he has all the powers of the Jenova entity like teleportation,superspeed,superstrength, etc.

He's been stated more powerful then beings like Chaos and Omega WEAPON, if Sephiroth is simply an "enhanced human" then what would those guys be?

Originally posted by Terryc250
Enhanced human? Crisis Core maybe is part human, but AC Sephiroth is no human at all.

His 'will' can do supernatural things like stop/move physical/nonphysical things. The power of the lifestream grants him control over energy/life/magic, he has all the powers of the Jenova entity like teleportation,superspeed,superstrength, etc.

He's been stated more powerful then beings like Chaos and Omega WEAPON, if Sephiroth is simply an "enhanced human" then what would those guys be?

thumbsup

The power of the lifestream may had done, but he doesnt have that, he has the negative lifestream instead which has shown to do nothing much at all really. When has he teleported?

bah more powerful, ofc hes more powerful if he can call meteor....it does more damage than any of them.

Originally posted by Burning thought
The power of the lifestream may had done, but he doesnt have that, he has the negative lifestream instead which has shown to do nothing much at all really. When has he teleported?

bah more powerful, ofc hes more powerful if he can call meteor....it does more damage than any of them.

guess your not a FF player, and he teleported in KH. He used speed in AC.

He can call meteors at will, which makes him easily more than an enhanced human.

KH is not canon

Well that's all I know, Terry probably knows more than me though, and he will be ablet to tell you where else.

thats quite funny, you mock me by saying ime not a FF player then give information from KH...then claim you dont know anywhere else where Seph teleports...

so ill same the same just for lawlz

"guess your not a FF player"

To everyone saying that Sephiroth needs Materia... Where do you think Bizarro Sephiroth and Safer Sephiroth hide his "Materias" then? Because he is naked in both forms, you know.
Oh, maybe he hide them in his ass! Wait, Bizarro and Safer doesn't have an ass. Hmmm...


Seriously guys, Post-Nibel Sephiroth doesn't need Materia to cast magic.

Originally posted by Burning thought
thats quite funny, you mock me by saying ime not a FF player then give information from KH...then claim you dont know anywhere else where Seph teleports...

so ill same the same just for lawlz

"guess your not a FF player"

Well that is all I know, but he has watched way more FF than me. Don't mock me on FF, when I know way more FF than you do.

I am a FF player, I am just not as addicted to it as others, while you don't play FF whatsoever.

under his queer angelic wings?

or perhaps they really dont have all those materia magics in canon anyway....there must be some reason other than "zomg he didnt have enuf times" that he didnt cast a single spell in a lot of his showings, certainly not in his "strongest" form in AC

Originally posted by Wil Deidara
Well that is all I know, but he has watched way more FF than me. Don't mock me on FF, when I know way more FF than you do.

I am a FF player, I am just not as addicted to it as others, while you don't play FF whatsoever.

no because ime not interested in queer emos and long haired girlymen, but that doesnt mean you "know" more about it than i do, considering ive had Terry coughing up the bile in pages of debates.

Originally posted by Burning thought
no because ime not interested in queer emos and long haired girlymen, but that doesnt mean you "know" more about it than i do, considering ive had Terry coughing up the bile in pages of debates.

The only queer emos and long haired girlymen here is the one I am currently talking to. Yeah so go talk to Terry, he knows way more FF than me, and I still know more than you .

Originally posted by Burning thought
under his queer angelic wings?

or perhaps they really dont have all those materia magics in canon anyway....there must be some reason other than "zomg he didnt have enuf times" that he didnt cast a single spell in a lot of his showings, certainly not in his "strongest" form in AC

Bizarro and Safer are part of his showings, you know.
And they casted a lot of spells.

Ime not sure ive seen the cutscene where they cast a lot of spells unless ofc your talking about gameplay.....

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ime not sure ive seen the cutscene where they cast a lot of spells unless ofc your talking about gameplay.....

So by your "logic", magic isn't part of any RPG's canon, just because the characters use it in the middle of a battle.

And going by your "logic", magic spells that doesn't appear in a cutscene of any game, don't exist in the story at all.
Then lets use this "logic" on Kain, shall we? Oh look! It seems that Kain IS a mere vampire, after all.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ime not sure ive seen the cutscene where they cast a lot of spells unless ofc your talking about gameplay.....

Yeah if we are only talking about cutscenes, then most people on GVF are useless fighters.

Originally posted by Wil Deidara
Yeah if we are only talking about cutscenes, then most people on GVF are useless fighters.

BT is just desperately trying to find something to underrate Sephiroth, because he doesn't like Seph(calling him a "queer emo and long haired girlymen" is proof of that)

Biased hater.

Originally posted by SHM
So by your "logic", magic isn't part of any RPG's canon, just because the characters use it in the middle of a battle.

And going by your "logic", magic spells that doesn't appear in a cutscene of any game, don't exist in the story at all.
Then lets use this "logic" on Kain, shall we? Oh look! It seems that Kain IS a mere vampire, after all.

No, by my logic a character who hardly ever uses magic and only seems to have it even hinted to or used is in gameplay is under scrutiny. not really, all of kains spells have a connection to the story even if its in dialogue and not in use. Sephiroth who never uses any spells outside of combat apprently has some sort of Super nova materia that can call upon a meteorlike object to destroy the solarsystem lol.....far fetched much?

The thing is, most characters especially Sephiroth has never cast a spell or hinted to his materia in FF, he rarely does it, its only in gameplay where you get the farfetched spells that never actually happen like Super nova.

not to mention Bizzario and Safer are like completly diffrent sephiroths to the current one, the one were using in this thread.

Originally posted by SHM
BT is just desperately trying to find something to underrate Sephiroth, because he doesn't like Seph(calling him a "queer emo and long haired girlymen" is proof of that)

Biased hater.

Now SHM is being a childish goon and trying to do anything to undermine me!! even going as low as to joining a band wagan with a semi-troll....

altho I do hate sephiroth, maybe your right and he had Super nova all the time that he could use with a swish of his finger!

or does he have a harry potter wand somewhere instead of materia? lol

Just because you don't like Sephiroth doesn't mean you have to be hating on him. Sephiroth could go toe to toe with Kratos, Dante, Kain, Xemnas, etc, but because you don't like Sephiroth, you want to make him seem worse than he is.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Now SHM is being a childish goon and trying to do anything to undermine me!! even going as low as to joining a band wagan with a semi-troll....

altho I do hate sephiroth, maybe your right and he had Super nova all the time that he could use with a swish of his finger!

or does he have a harry potter wand somewhere instead of materia? lol

This post shows your hatred for Seph, and several more posts.

I thot my hatred for Sephiroth was obvious ,but no that doesnt mean he can go toe to toe, what stops him from going toe to toe is because hes slower than Dante, weaker than Kratos, less endurance than all of them and most of his best powers take a lot of time to do.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I thot my hatred for Sephiroth was obvious ,but no that doesnt mean he can go toe to toe, what stops him from going toe to toe is because hes slower than Dante, weaker than Kratos, less endurance than all of them and most of his best powers take a lot of time to do.

Speed- Hah, Dante faster, what a joke
Brute strength- Kratos
Endurance- Sephiroth does have endurance, but you are not giving him enough credit.

Dante is far faster, he regulary dodges bullets and is fast and accurat enough with his guns to shoot them out of the air, whats sephiroth do? have a few cool looking blur effects! lol....combine that with his time powers and he easily takes moveing around combining speed with hampering his opponent

bah, not giving him enough credit? does he have any real endurance feats? you just said he does have endurance...so what is the feat?

^ Do you like Dante? By you post you don't seem to like Dante =\ ^

Originally posted by Gumachi
^ Do you like Dante? By you post you don't seem to like Dante =\ ^

Gumachi, BT doesn't like anyone except for Kain. Why? Well to put it simply is because he is a fanboy and has no idea what he is talking about.

By the way BT, Sephiroth was going toe to toe with Cloud in AC, and after the fight he wasn't breathing heavy, sweating, or anything.

^Had a feeling he was a Kain fanboy(by his post).

I guess Kain could defeat Goku(on his terms)eh? lol

Originally posted by Gumachi
^Had a feeling he was a Kain fanboy(by his post).

I guess Kain could defeat Goku(on his terms)eh? lol

BT thinks Kain can defeat Pyron, and that is complete fanboyism.

Who is Pyron? From what I heard he sounds awesome.

Originally posted by Gumachi
Who is Pyron? From what I heard he sounds awesome.

Pyron Pyron, the planet eater. BT believes Kain can suck his soal before Pyron destroys the planet he's on .

=\ He can just "leave" the planet. Does he even have a soul?

Who knows, but Pyron would kick Kain's ass with ease. Everyone on KMC would agree, except for the pne known as Burning Thought.

Originally posted by Wil Deidara
Gumachi, BT doesn't like anyone except for Kain. Why? Well to put it simply is because he is a fanboy and has no idea what he is talking about.

By the way BT, Sephiroth was going toe to toe with Cloud in AC, and after the fight he wasn't breathing heavy, sweating, or anything.

false...otherwise I would only debate in Kain threads, this is neither....

no idea? ive been right in almost all my debates, you least of all should talk about someone not knowing something since you admitted earlier you didnt know something from the same fiction you are defending....

so what? thats not endurance, thats stamina....looks like you dont know what your talking about..

Originally posted by Gumachi
^ Do you like Dante? By you post you don't seem to like Dante =\ ^

yeh i like him more than Sephiroth, I like Kratos more than Dante and I like Kain more than Kratos.

Originally posted by Wil Deidara
Who knows, but Pyron would kick Kain's ass with ease. Everyone on KMC would agree, except for the pne known as Burning Thought.

exactley, that says it right there, everyones ignorence makes them belive Pyron wins just for the fact he is large...that doesnt give people a win, not in games vs and not in games/fiction in general...he wouldnt kick kains ass and due to Kains power he cannot kill Kain either so it would be a hopeless battle.

^Oh okay =|

Originally posted by Wil Deidara
2 on 2 battle. 1 good and 1 evil vs 1 good and 1 evil.

Dante from DMC4

Sephiroth from FFVII: AC

vs

Kratos from GoW2

and

Xemnas from KH2

They have all of there abilities and weapons .

Who wins this 2 on 2 battle?

Okay, I'm a little confused at this. When you say which games they appear in, then say they have all of their abilities, does that mean all the abilities acquired fro mthat game, just in general, or what?

Originally posted by Burning thought
The power of the lifestream may had done, but he doesnt have that, he has the negative lifestream instead which has shown to do nothing much at all really. When has he teleported?

bah more powerful, ofc hes more powerful if he can call meteor....it does more damage than any of them.
He teleported in FF7, the negative lifestream IS the lifestream but tainted with Jenova cells, thus under Sephiroths control. Some of it's powers still have been shown throughout AC, like creation of the 3 trios (Life) the shadow creeps (magic).


Regular Soldiers with some JENOVA cells dodge multiple machine guns firing at him, dodging all the bullets with complete ease Dante would not win against Sephiroth unless he uses quicksilver

Originally posted by Terryc250
He teleported in FF7, the negative lifestream IS the lifestream but tainted with Jenova cells, thus under Sephiroths control. Some of it's powers still have been shown throughout AC, like creation of the 3 trios (Life) the shadow creeps (magic).


Regular Soldiers with some JENOVA cells dodge multiple machine guns firing at him, dodging all the bullets with complete ease Dante would not win against Sephiroth unless he uses quicksilver

Show me please. Its taint could also mean it loses all the gifts the lifestream stands for, not to mention your only assuming, how do you know Sephiroth knows HOW to access the lifestreams powers in that way, nobody else has ever done it and hes not shown half the things you claim. the 3 trios done with the negative lifestream? plz show me, same with shadow creeps, they seemed to have just been summoned, ive not seen them come out of the negative.

lol, you talking about the james bonde esque movement in the large area, I can envision what your talking about, I think ive seen it, they were far away from him, but dodgeing multiple machineguns that are innacurate anyaway is a far weaker feat than actualy shooting bullets out of the air with your own while running and jumping near the enemy, literally shooting the bulletsas they come out of his gun. Thats far beyond Sephiroths speed.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Show me please. Its taint could also mean it loses all the gifts the lifestream stands for, not to mention your only assuming, how do you know Sephiroth knows HOW to access the lifestreams powers in that way, nobody else has ever done it and hes not shown half the things you claim. the 3 trios done with the negative lifestream? plz show me, same with shadow creeps, they seemed to have just been summoned, ive not seen them come out of the negative.

If it lost its "gifts" then it the 3 trio wouldn't have been able to be created, and they wouldn't have been able to use magic from it. The Silver Haired men had no materia until they stole it from Cloud, materia glows when its casted, showing that its power is tapping into the lifestream. If the trio knows how, obviously Sephiroth knows how. Since Sephiroth created the trio from it, obviously he knows how, and since his mind has been in the lifestream for many years absorbing all the knowledge, of course he knows how.

The shadow creeps were summoned with a gesture, there is no materia glow or casting involved.

Materia ALWAYS has a cast glow, whether it be in games or movie, it always does.

Materia
6:45
Es0aXYPxqfo
1:09
fSbxbiiTl5U
00:40
4yDvteDWoXM


Negative Lifestream (Only requires a Gesture, no materia at all)

1:35
A1XQVB9bbh0
1:39
g6OZYm3XhI0




No.. a "James bonde esque" is James bond running for cover behind crap, i guarantee 100% you'll never find a video of James Bond dodging bullets with ease like Zack.

Zack easily dodges bullets coming from all directions. Dodging multiple machine guns coming from all direction is 100x harder then dodging a bullets from a single gun. Shooting bullets isn't even a speed feat, its an accuracy feat as its been done in anime before.

Show me Dante's greatest speed feat.

Originally posted by Terryc250
If it lost its "gifts" then it the 3 trio wouldn't have been able to be created, and they wouldn't have been able to use magic from it. The Silver Haired men had no materia until they stole it from Cloud, materia glows when its casted, showing that its power is tapping into the lifestream. If the trio knows how, obviously Sephiroth knows how. Since Sephiroth created the trio from it, obviously he knows how, and since his mind has been in the lifestream for many years absorbing all the knowledge, of course he knows how.

The shadow creeps were summoned with a gesture, there is no materia glow or casting involved.

Materia ALWAYS has a cast glow, whether it be in games or movie, it always does.

Materia
6:45
Es0aXYPxqfo
1:09
fSbxbiiTl5U
00:40
4yDvteDWoXM


Negative Lifestream (Only requires a Gesture, no materia at all)

1:35
A1XQVB9bbh0
1:39
g6OZYm3XhI0




No.. a "James bonde esque" is James bond running for cover behind crap.

Zack easily dodges bullets coming from all directions. Dodging multiple machine guns coming from all direction is 100x harder then dodging a bullets from a single gun. Shooting bullets isn't even a speed feat, its an accuracy feat as its been done in anime before.

Show me Dante's greatest speed feat.


All you did there was show that Materia can be used, you didnt prove that they were using the negative lifestream to do it, most of those materia glowing were clouds as well, all those people could be doing was tapping into the original lifestream and that still doesnt prove anything about Sephiroth being able to control any form of the lifestream, he doesnt have materia. All the Neg lifestream has really proven it can do is summon weak shadow dogs.

not at all, the machinegunners were fairly fair away from him, compared to Dante whos opponent was closer, then combine that with the fact machineguns are innacurate anyway, fire a machnegun from a certain distance and its bullets will spray, also thats not necesserily speed, if I remember it correctly Zack was more lucky than aything since he wasnt going much faster than the bullets, i.e James bond esque, being lucky enough to escape machinegun fire, or an even better example, Indiana jones at the beginning of the latest one lol. Hell your little whine of PIS is relevent when it suits you, here it could be relevent on those men, something as ridiculous as Zack surviving all those machineguns could easily be PIS to keep their hero alive.

here:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=cRGOT0E4-xU&feature=related

3:20 he shoots the bullets out of the air from about half a foot away.

cRGOT0E4-xU&feature=related

altho thats probably not his best, Charlotte Debel is the FF fanatic around here, she probably has plent, or you could look in his respect thread.

Originally posted by Burning thought
All you did there was show that Materia can be used, you didnt prove that they were using the negative lifestream to do it, most of those materia glowing were clouds as well, all those people could be doing was tapping into the original lifestream and that still doesnt prove anything about Sephiroth being able to control any form of the lifestream, he doesnt have materia. All the Neg lifestream has really proven it can do is summon weak shadow dogs.

I showed that the silvered hair men were infact using magic from the negative lifestream, and not materia.

All materia is the same, theres summon types, magic type, etc. They ALL have a casting glow, always.

If his remants who have a bit of control over the NL can use magic, obviously Sephiroth who has full control over it can. Since the trio is made up of the NL by Sephiroth, obviously Sephiroth can. It's common sense and logic, where does magic come from? The lifestream. The trio were able to use the NL for magic, so logically that means that the NL is of the same thing. There has been nothing to suggests that Jenova cells take away the lifestreams power, if anything it should enhance it.


There was over 10 machine gunners from all directions, and Zack was dodging them all for longer while at the same time beating people up. Zack wasn't lucky, he wasn't even worried EVERY SINGLE time he dodges bullets from LO, or CC he has a smile on his face of confidence, showing that he does it as childsplay fun.


In terms of speed, its not as impressive as Zacks speed who is far inferior to Sephiroth, let alone AC Sephiroth.

You showed they can use magic to summon pathetic creatures such as Shadow creeps, Kadaj (I think) is the one who needed Materia to summon Bahmaht, other than that Sephiroth summoing shadow creeps isnt going to help him against Dante and Kratos is it.....

Theres been nothing to suggest the negative lifestream which is diffrent regardless of whether it would logically be weaker can actually do the same thing, furthermore theres nothing to suggest Sephiroth has all the power of all the materia, for controlling it either.

Stop using Zacks feats then and show me Sephiroths feats?

Originally posted by Burning thought
You showed they can use magic to summon pathetic creatures such as Shadow creeps, Kadaj (I think) is the one who needed Materia to summon Bahmaht, other than that Sephiroth summoing shadow creeps isnt going to help him against Dante and Kratos is it.....
The remnants only had limited control over the lifestream, Sephiroth has power over the entire thing, he is the creator of it. The trio using the shadow creeps is the proof that the NL still has its magic ability, and not removed due to having Jenova cells in it.


How is it different? It's the same thing but contaminated with Jenova cells. What suggests that Sephiroth DOESN'T? Nothing. Like i have showed you over and over again, he's used it to create life, his remnants have used it for magic, and its been shown to kill people as well.


AC Sephiroth was on screen for 10 minutes, not using his powers. Zacks abilities basically came from Sephiroth, as he gained those powers by having some Jenova cells injected into him, while Sephiroth is the new evolution of the entity itself. Sephiroth logically is capable of far superior physical abilities then Zack.

Sometimes you have to look through things with logic/common sense and not through your hatred of him. Because you're using this kind of logic "TOAA has no feats so Wolverine must be tougher then him" which is horrible logic.

Originally posted by Terryc250
The remnants only had limited control over the lifestream, Sephiroth has power over the entire thing, he is the creator of it. The trio using the shadow creeps is the proof that the NL still has its magic ability, and not removed due to having Jenova cells in it.


How is it different? It's the same thing but contaminated with Jenova cells. What suggests that Sephiroth DOESN'T? Nothing. Like i have showed you over and over again, he's used it to create life, his remnants have used it for magic, and its been shown to kill people as well.


AC Sephiroth was on screen for 10 minutes, not using his powers. Zacks abilities basically came from Sephiroth, as he gained those powers by having some Jenova cells injected into him, while Sephiroth is the new evolution of the entity itself. Sephiroth logically is capable of far superior physical abilities then Zack.

Sometimes you have to look through things with logic/common sense and not through your hatred of him. Because you're using this kind of logic "TOAA has no feats so Wolverine must be tougher then him" which is horrible logic.

It proves it can make shadow creeps, thats about it....not that it has the same magic as normal lifestream....also plz show me him actually creating the remnants.

Its like me saying Kain has exactley the same powers as Vorador just because their both vampires, their both very diffrent, the Jenova cells make changes. Also doesnt minerva control the normal lifestream?

When has Neg lifestream killed someone? plz show

So? I cant keep going on and on about "zomg Kain never used his power coz he didnt need to" then claiming he is 1000 times faster and more powerful than shown. Maybe if Kain was shown in a real battle in a cutscene he would start moving lightspeed and shooting galaxy destroying blasts?

Your comparing Sephiroths diffrent of power between Zack the same as the diffrence between TOAA and Wolverine? lol....no I think you need to stop being ridiculous and actually prove with feats, otherwise your talking a load of rubbish and constantly dodging. .....(also your analogy is god awful, TOAA does have feats, he created Marvel and is also stated to be all powerful...)

Originally posted by Burning thought
It proves it can make shadow creeps, thats about it....not that it has the same magic as normal lifestream....also plz show me him actually creating the remnants.
Shadow creeps IS magic, why would the lifestream only be capable of 1 spell? The lifestream isn't about number of "spells" its the SOURCE of magic. Once again your looking at this through hatred of Sephiroth, and not logic. The lifestream is the lifestream, the fact that the remants were capable of using magic proves that magic exists in it. Sephiroth controls all of the lifestream that he took, which is far more then what the remnants were capable of controlling. The remnants weren't shown being created. After Sephiroth contaminated the lifestream, the Ultimania states that they were manifested by Sephiroth, and once the Negative Lifestream was perished by Aeris' Great Gospel (the rain) The trio disappeared with the NL.


Kains powers never came from Vorador. Zacks powers literally came from being injected by Jenova cells. Sephiroth IS Jenova, he became the viral core of the entity itself.

Minerva is the goddess of the planet, shes the consciousness of the lifestream itself.


At the end of FF7 when Sephiroth finally went into the Lifestream he spread countless Jenova cells into it, contaminating it, this was the birth of the negative lifestream and geostigma, when the lifestream when to midgar to stop Meteor, some people were exposed to it, Denzels mom was exposed to it, trying to save Denzel


When I went back into the house, Ruvi seemed to be sleeping. She had such a peaceful look on her. I was worried though so I gave her shoulders a little nudge.

"Mrs Ruvi."

It didn't seem like she was going to open her eyes.

"Mrs Ruvi!", he shouted nudging harder this time.

A stream of black fluid came out of Ruvi's mouth. Thinking it was a sign of death, I panicked and wiped it away. There was even some flowing out of her hair. I felt sick. Denzel burst out of the house, fear gripping onto him.

"Dad! Mum! Help me!", he shouted loudly. He continued shouting out until he ran out of names. Now he could only cry.

From that encounter Denzel caught Sephiroths Geostigma disease.


Nothing suggests he could, so thats completely false. There's zero logic behind that, and we've seen Kain fight. We've never seen AC Sephiroth at close to his max. I never said Sephiroth was 1000 times faster then Zack, but logically he is much faster, besides the fact that he has been shown faster already. Like i said a cople times now, Zack became that fast through being injected with some Jenova cells, Sephiroth being the entity itself logically is much faster, stronger, etc.


No, you're ignoring all logic and just looking for feats. Yes TOAA is the reason for Wolverines existance, it's like saying who's faster Silver Surfer or TOAA? Then you replying TOAA has no feats so SS is faster, yet your ignoring the logic that his existance and powers originated from TOAA., Jenova/Sephiroth is the reason for Zacks power, he was injected with some Jenova cells.

Sephiroth was stated as the most powerful being in FF7, Zack isn't even top 5, nor is he even close. His powers originated from AC Sephiroth, yet your ignoring all this and just looking for "feats" even though Sephiroth was on screen for 10 minutes not using any of his powers and toying around.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Shadow creeps IS magic, why would the lifestream only be capable of 1 spell? The lifestream isn't about number of "spells" its the SOURCE of magic. Once again your looking at this through hatred of Sephiroth, and not logic. The lifestream is the lifestream, the fact that the remants were capable of using magic proves that magic exists in it. Sephiroth controls all of the lifestream that he took, which is far more then what the remnants were capable of controlling. The remnants weren't shown being created. After Sephiroth contaminated the lifestream, the Ultimania states that they were manifested by Sephiroth, and once the Negative Lifestream was perished by Aeris' Great Gospel (the rain) The trio disappeared with the NL.


Kains powers never came from Vorador. Zacks powers literally came from being injected by Jenova cells. Sephiroth IS Jenova, he became the viral core of the entity itself.

Minerva is the goddess of the planet, shes the consciousness of the lifestream itself.


At the end of FF7 when Sephiroth finally went into the Lifestream he spread countless Jenova cells into it, contaminating it, this was the birth of the negative lifestream and geostigma, when the lifestream when to midgar to stop Meteor, some people were exposed to it, Denzels mom was exposed to it, trying to save Denzel


When I went back into the house, Ruvi seemed to be sleeping. She had such a peaceful look on her. I was worried though so I gave her shoulders a little nudge.

"Mrs Ruvi."

It didn't seem like she was going to open her eyes.

"Mrs Ruvi!", he shouted nudging harder this time.

A stream of black fluid came out of Ruvi's mouth. Thinking it was a sign of death, I panicked and wiped it away. There was even some flowing out of her hair. I felt sick. Denzel burst out of the house, fear gripping onto him.

"Dad! Mum! Help me!", he shouted loudly. He continued shouting out until he ran out of names. Now he could only cry.

From that encounter Denzel caught Sephiroths Geostigma disease.


Nothing suggests he could, so thats completely false. There's zero logic behind that, and we've seen Kain fight. We've never seen AC Sephiroth at close to his max. I never said Sephiroth was 1000 times faster then Zack, but logically he is much faster, besides the fact that he has been shown faster already. Like i said a cople times now, Zack became that fast through being injected with some Jenova cells, Sephiroth being the entity itself logically is much faster, stronger, etc.


No, you're ignoring all logic and just looking for feats. Yes TOAA is the reason for Wolverines existance, it's like saying who's faster Silver Surfer or TOAA? Then you replying TOAA has no feats so SS is faster, yet your ignoring the logic that his existance and powers originated from TOAA., Jenova/Sephiroth is the reason for Zacks power, he was injected with some Jenova cells.

Sephiroth was stated as the most powerful being in FF7, Zack isn't even top 5, nor is he even close. His powers originated from AC Sephiroth, yet your ignoring all this and just looking for "feats" even though Sephiroth was on screen for 10 minutes not using any of his powers and toying around.

Why? i dont know why the negative lifestream would only be capable of one spell, but thats all thats shown, ime not the writer of the FF series, and we cant make up spells on the fly so thats the only spell Sephiroth can use, we cant take out Terries list of invented Neg lifestream spells and use it....

Then lets use some logic, Minerva is a Goddess and supposedly more powerful than most beings in FF, surely shes stronger than Jenova? perhaps thats a reason why Neg lifestream (Jenova/sephiroth) conciousness is far weaker than Minervas concious lifestream.

No not at all, why would injecting him with more make him faster/stronger? Just because you inject a person with more blood doesnt mean theyll be as fast as the humans you inject into them do they? no.....either way we cannot invent speed feats nor can we assume Sephiroth is much faster, its still not logical that just because Sephiroth has more Jenova in him hes suddenly faster, for all we know the amount Zack got was enough to give him the speed boost, perhaps Sephiroth having more only gives him other powers, not necesserily enhanced versions of the same...

For example when Kain swallows another vampires soul in Blood omen 2, he doesnt get increased stats of every kind, only that vampires power. a similiar system could be working on Jenovas body, the more you inject, the more diffrent powers you gain, not ncesserily powerups to your stats every time.

Just because Sephiroth is far more powerful doesnt mean he is far faster...theres diffrence between power and speed.....so all your "Sephiroth is more powerfulz he must be much faster!" is a load of assumption and dribble and especially amusing since you constantly keep saying "use logic", well thats not logical...someone more powerful is not always faster, stronger etc to be more powerful....

Originally posted by First_Tsurugi06
Okay, I'm a little confused at this. When you say which games they appear in, then say they have all of their abilities, does that mean all the abilities acquired fro mthat game, just in general, or what?

This is the final forms of all of them, and the final forms come from these games. They have all of there abilities at top form. Get it now?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Why? i dont know why the negative lifestream would only be capable of one spell, but thats all thats shown, ime not the writer of the FF series, and we cant make up spells on the fly so thats the only spell Sephiroth can use, we cant take out Terries list of invented Neg lifestream spells and use it....
It makes no sense that the negative lifestream would be only capable of 1 spell, again, the lifestream is the SOURCE of magic, its not something that contains spells. It's like how electricity is the source of light, but does that mean electricity is only capable of producing light? No, it's capable of doing other things as well.

Keep in mind that the remnants don't have as much power of the negative lifestream as Sephiroth does, hence why they cannot use it to it's full power like Sephiroth can, and need materia to aid them.

I notice you always write "Terries", you do know "Terry" is a name and not a word right? There is a difference. The negative lifestream is capable of magic just as the lifestream is, they both work as the SOURCE of magic, which means Sephiroth can tap into the negative lifestreams power and use spells. The regular lifestream is the source of millions of spells, Sephiroth just sitting in the lifestream gained access to tons of spells without needing materia. Nothing suggests that Jenova cells would remove it's power of magic, if anything it would strengthen it. It already has been shown it can produce magic, it already has been shown it can produce life, and it already has been shown it can kill people.


The lifestream cannot harm Sephiroth, it can destroy his body at best, but not is spirit or mind, it will become infected by him. If Cloud did not stop Sephiroth, the planet would have fell before Sephiroth, and Sephrioth would have taken over. Even ignoring that, Nomura already states their is no other being stronger then Sephiroth.


Huh? You're talking like i'm making a theory that Zack gained his speed by being injected with Jenova cells. That is fact, its the story line. SOLDIERs gained their power by being injected by Jenova cells, it's in the plot, without the Jenova cells they're just regular humans.

Not really it's been shown the the character who is more true to the being Jenova is much more superior, take Sephiroth and Zack for example, Sephiroth was while he was still in the womb with alot of Jenova cells, which made him literally part Jenova, Zack was injected with somejenova cells afterwards, Sephiroth was far superior then Zack, both in speed and power. That's like saying Silver Surfer is as fast as Galactus.


But Kain is more powerful then the vampires, and he absorbs the entire vampires soul. Zack was just injected with some Jenova cells, it doesn't mean he's faster then Jenova itself, or as strong as Jenova. If that's true then why would Sephiroth be far stronger and faster in his CC form? The original Jenova was powerful enough to go crash from planet to planet without being harmed, Zack wouldn't even be able to survive the vacuums of space. The only way the original Jenova was defeated was by being sealed away by the Cetras.


So then how would he be ranked #1 if he doesn't have that ability? How would he beable to deal with speeders like Chaos and Weiss? If his lifestream is probably nothing like you're trying to prove, then how would he more powerful then beings like minerva or the weapons?

Obviously he isn't as weak as you try to make him, or else the creators wouldn't have said he is the most powerful being in the FF7 world.

Originally posted by Terryc250
It makes no sense that the negative lifestream would be only capable of 1 spell, again, the lifestream is the SOURCE of magic, its not something that contains spells. It's like how electricity is the source of light, but does that mean electricity is only capable of producing light? No, it's capable of doing other things as well.

Keep in mind that the remnants don't have as much power of the negative lifestream as Sephiroth does, hence why they cannot use it to it's full power like Sephiroth can, and need materia to aid them.

I notice you always write "Terries", you do know "Terry" is a name and not a word right? There is a difference. The negative lifestream is capable of magic just as the lifestream is, they both work as the SOURCE of magic, which means Sephiroth can tap into the negative lifestreams power and use spells. The regular lifestream is the source of millions of spells, Sephiroth just sitting in the lifestream gained access to tons of spells without needing materia. Nothing suggests that Jenova cells would remove it's power of magic, if anything it would strengthen it. It already has been shown it can produce magic, it already has been shown it can produce life, and it already has been shown it can kill people.


The lifestream cannot harm Sephiroth, it can destroy his body at best, but not is spirit or mind, it will become infected by him. If Cloud did not stop Sephiroth, the planet would have fell before Sephiroth, and Sephrioth would have taken over. Even ignoring that, Nomura already states their is no other being stronger then Sephiroth.


Huh? You're talking like i'm making a theory that Zack gained his speed by being injected with Jenova cells. That is fact, its the story line. SOLDIERs gained their power by being injected by Jenova cells, it's in the plot, without the Jenova cells they're just regular humans.

Not really it's been shown the the character who is more true to the being Jenova is much more superior, take Sephiroth and Zack for example, Sephiroth was while he was still in the womb with alot of Jenova cells, which made him literally part Jenova, Zack was injected with somejenova cells afterwards, Sephiroth was far superior then Zack, both in speed and power. That's like saying Silver Surfer is as fast as Galactus.


But Kain is more powerful then the vampires, and he absorbs the entire vampires soul. Zack was just injected with some Jenova cells, it doesn't mean he's faster then Jenova itself, or as strong as Jenova. If that's true then why would Sephiroth be far stronger and faster in his CC form? The original Jenova was powerful enough to go crash from planet to planet without being harmed, Zack wouldn't even be able to survive the vacuums of space. The only way the original Jenova was defeated was by being sealed away by the Cetras.


So then how would he be ranked #1 if he doesn't have that ability? How would he beable to deal with speeders like Chaos and Weiss? If his lifestream is probably nothing like you're trying to prove, then how would he more powerful then beings like minerva or the weapons?

Obviously he isn't as weak as you try to make him, or else the creators wouldn't have said he is the most powerful being in the FF7 world.

no it doesnt but we cant invent spells for Sephiroth either can we so your side of the argument can only go cold in that respect..

But hes not sitting in the lifestream anymore, hes just got Negative lifestream at his disposal whos spells are known to have a grand total of 1...

What did the guy state actually? ive heard all he says is that nothing is "above" sephiroth....not to mention thats a very wide statement...its not even specific..

No its not lol, because Galactus can amp himself almost infnity, Sephiroths diffrence is miniscule at best between him and Zack.

Speedsers he could defeat using his willpower, stop them like he did Holy.....their speed would be worthless...The weapons and Minerva? i dont know, what have they actually done? he could still be more powerful since Meteor would destroy them for sure....thing is, the guy doesnt actually say "sephiroth is number 1" he says something like "nothing is above Sephiroths willpower" or something along those lines, infact please show me the piece.

Originally posted by Burning thought
no it doesnt but we cant invent spells for Sephiroth either can we so your side of the argument can only go cold in that respect..
He still holds the control over the source of magic, what are the limits of his magic capabilities are the question. But the point is, he does have control over a magic source which means he does not require materia.


He achieved something even greater, which was directly stated that Sephiroth reached a new height in power.


It has been stated a couple times by Nomura and Kitase, he stated Sephiroth is already the strongest in the world so there's no room for growth and that Sephiroths will and existence is so powerful, there is nothing stronger, nothing above him. Those comments only lead to one thing, those comments basically means there is no one above Sephiroth in the world of FF7.


Umm, Sephiroth is far superior then Zack, and thats CC Sephiroth. It's the analogy between the characters, not the difference. SS weilds Galactus' cosmic power, while Zack is running off Jenova's cells. Every SOLDIER, or even Sephiroths remnants can dodge/deflects bullets with utter ease.



"Kitase said that Sephiroth's existence and will is extremely powerful. There is nothing stronger, nothing above him. We had a difficult time deciding on the reason why Sephiroth would appear"

"Sephiroth is already the strongest in the world so there's no room for growth, and we couldn't possibly see ourselves making a game over type situation where he loses"

"Producer Kitase decided that they couldn’t make any other character stronger than Sephiroth in the world of FFVII."

Cannot deny the creators words.

AC Sephiroth ranked first
Chaos Vincent or Minerva ranked second.

Originally posted by Terryc250
He still holds the control over the source of magic, what are the limits of his magic capabilities are the question. But the point is, he does have control over a magic source which means he does not require materia.






"Kitase said that Sephiroth's existence and will is extremely powerful. There is nothing stronger, nothing above him. We had a difficult time deciding on the reason why Sephiroth would appear"

"Sephiroth is already the strongest in the world so there's no room for growth, and we couldn't possibly see ourselves making a game over type situation where he loses"

"Producer Kitase decided that they couldn’t make any other character stronger than Sephiroth in the world of FFVII."

Cannot deny the creators words.

AC Sephiroth ranked first
Chaos Vincent or Minerva ranked second.

I cut out the parts of your post which I pretty much agree to or are answerable by the pieces ive left behind.

No hes got hold of the electricity, but having electricity doesnt mean you can fry bread, you still need a toaster to fry bread dude, work out that analogy


Yeh but all of this can be hyperbole, words used by developers to make characters more interesting than they actually are, its difficult to scale when they dont make specific statements, for all you know he was referring to a smaller base of characters than the entire FF world like Chaos and Minerva, OR he could indeed be referring to everything, we just dont know, the guy should have been more specific if thats what he was aiming at.

Its just not logical in any way, shape or form from the games that Sephiroth could defeat Minerva, there is no fact for that, if you made a battle happen between Sephiroth and Chaos in a feat based situation, Chaos may win, same with the weapons, which is whats important in KMC battles, a dude saying something so openly and widely without specifics is not taken into account.

Also to further this, when did the guy say this? also was this not a translation, for all we know it was translated wrong, the information itself is very sketchy at best.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No hes got hold of the electricity, but having electricity doesnt mean you can fry bread, you still need a toaster to fry bread dude, work out that analogy

No he created the electricity, and has complete control over it, knowledge over it, has shown to beable to use it creating the SHM, etc.


.. dude, those quotes cannot mean anything else at all, seriously I mean, i don't mind you being skeptical, and debating who has greater feats Sephiroth or Chaos (i still think Sephiroth has greater feats even though he hasn't displayed his full power), but really.. the producer has numerously flat out said Sephiroth is the most powerful character a few times now, and this you cannot deny.

It's not like he said it about other characters as well, he only said it about Sephiroth, no other character, not even the protagonists Cloud or Vincent. One quote says there's nothing above him, the other quote says he's the most powerful in the world, the other quote says they couldn't make anyone more powerful then him.

"Producer Kitase decided that they couldn't make any other character stronger than Sephiroth in the world of FFVII."

How can that be on a smaller scale? It literally states "the world of FFVII"

"Sephiroth is already the strongest in the world so there's no room for growth"

It states the WORLD

"There is nothing stronger, nothing above him"
Nothing above him, Chaos, Weapons, they are something, but it states NOTHING is above him.


No, it's because you try to downplay Sephiroths feats and try to make him seem weaker then he is. Sephiroth actually has greater feats then these characters, but you just don't believe them.

Minverva is the concousness of the lifestream, the goddess of the planet, she created Omega WEAPON and that is basically her pet, she imprisoned Genesis in CC on a whim. Yet as powerful as she is, she could do absolutely nothing to Sephiroth, she couldn't take him in the lifestream when he died, he even contimated her lifestream and crated a plague out of it, she was no threat to him, and if he wasn't stopped in AC the planet would've been infected by Sephiroth, and Minerva would've turned into his b*tch.

Chaos would be stopped by Sephiroth, we haven't even seen close to the limits of Sephiroth but we've seen Chaos Vincents, he has super speed, and enough power to shake the planet, but Sephiroths will is so powerful that it could hold back anything Chaos tries to unleash at him, we don't know the limits of what Sephiroth is capable of, but the producers do. If they said they said in the world of FF7 there is no character stronger then Sephiroth, then obviously Chaos is not stronger then him, if they said no one is above Sephiroth, then obviously Chaos is not above him, if they said Sephiroth is the strongest in the world, then obviously Sephiroth is stronger then Chaos. The thing is, the producers actually said that, so we can only conclude that Sephiroth is the above Chaos and the other FF7 characters, no matter how you look at it.


They are all direct translations, and there is no reason to assume all 3 quotes which some weren't even in the same interview were coincidently all incorrect mistranslations, and actually the one saying producer kitsae says Sephiroth existence is so powerful is from the UOG. The statement of no one above Sephiroth was said in an interview after the completion of DoC. The statement of Sephiroth being the most powerful in the world was said a year or 2 after the release of DoC. And if IIRC the statement of Producer Kitase saying they couldn't make any character stronger then Seph in FF7 was in the same interview as one of the above.

Originally posted by Terryc250
No he created the electricity, and has complete control over it, knowledge over it, has shown to beable to use it creating the SHM, etc.


.. dude, those quotes cannot mean anything else at all, seriously I mean, i don't mind you being skeptical, and debating who has greater feats Sephiroth or Chaos (i still think Sephiroth has greater feats even though he hasn't displayed his full power), but really.. the producer has numerously flat out said Sephiroth is the most powerful character a few times now, and this you cannot deny.

It's not like he said it about other characters as well, he only said it about Sephiroth, no other character, not even the protagonists Cloud or Vincent. One quote says there's nothing above him, the other quote says he's the most powerful in the world, the other quote says they couldn't make anyone more powerful then him.

"Producer Kitase decided that they couldn't make any other character stronger than Sephiroth in the world of FFVII."

How can that be on a smaller scale? It literally states "the world of FFVII"

"Sephiroth is already the strongest in the world so there's no room for growth"

It states the WORLD

"There is nothing stronger, nothing above him"
Nothing above him, Chaos, Weapons, they are something, but it states NOTHING is above him.


No, it's because you try to downplay Sephiroths feats and try to make him seem weaker then he is. Sephiroth actually has greater feats then these characters, but you just don't believe them.

Minverva is the concousness of the lifestream, the goddess of the planet, she created Omega WEAPON and that is basically her pet, she imprisoned Genesis in CC on a whim. Yet as powerful as she is, she could do absolutely nothing to Sephiroth, she couldn't take him in the lifestream when he died, he even contimated her lifestream and crated a plague out of it, she was no threat to him, and if he wasn't stopped in AC the planet would've been infected by Sephiroth, and Minerva would've turned into his b*tch.

Chaos would be stopped by Sephiroth, we haven't even seen close to the limits of Sephiroth but we've seen Chaos Vincents, he has super speed, and enough power to shake the planet, but Sephiroths will is so powerful that it could hold back anything Chaos tries to unleash at him, we don't know the limits of what Sephiroth is capable of, but the producers do. If they said they said in the world of FF7 there is no character stronger then Sephiroth, then obviously Chaos is not stronger then him, if they said no one is above Sephiroth, then obviously Chaos is not above him, if they said Sephiroth is the strongest in the world, then obviously Sephiroth is stronger then Chaos. The thing is, the producers actually said that, so we can only conclude that Sephiroth is the above Chaos and the other FF7 characters, no matter how you look at it.


They are all direct translations, and there is no reason to assume all 3 quotes which some weren't even in the same interview were coincidently all incorrect mistranslations, and actually the one saying producer kitsae says Sephiroth existence is so powerful is from the UOG. The statement of no one above Sephiroth was said in an interview after the completion of DoC. The statement of Sephiroth being the most powerful in the world was said a year or 2 after the release of DoC. And if IIRC the statement of Producer Kitase saying they couldn't make any character stronger then Seph in FF7 was in the same interview as one of the above.

electricity alone cannot fry bread, you need the toaster for it to go through, Sephiroth doesnt have the toaster...i.e shown the ability to make spells without using materia.

They can still all be hyperbole, regardless of what the developer says when he is not specific at all, it can mean a variety of things, not to mention, he contradicts his own work by having Cloud defeat Sephiroth with something as simple as a sword manouver, contradiction of his own work isnt exactley making the view of sephiroth above everything clear.

Chaos is not a problem he is worthless since Sephiroths willpower would be enough, but how would he go about damaging the weapons?

Also the Sephiroth currently, which is AC is not the same as Sephiroth in FF7, he doesnt look like Safer sephiroth for example.

Originally posted by Burning thought
electricity alone cannot fry bread, you need the toaster for it to go through, Sephiroth doesnt have the toaster...i.e shown the ability to make spells without using materia.
Electricity alone can fry bread, humans do not have full control over electricity that's why they need machines to aid in controlling it. Sephiroth does have full control over the NL, he has shown numerous times doing spells without materia, throughout FF7, if his remnants can use the NL as magic even though they have limited control over the NL, then obviously the creator of them and the creator of the NL can.


No, because they specifically state it 3 times, they don't do that with any other character but Sephiroth. You can say that about any statement, but if they have said it numerous times, you can't say they just exagerrated all of those times, chances are, it's true. Omnislash isn't a simple sword maneuver, it's not even physical, the properties are unknown, and it is basically just a move to for plot purposes because Cloud really couldn't have killed Sephiroth any other way, nor is it condradicting anything, Sephiroth did not use any of his powers at all, nor was he even serious.




Willpower, spells, negative lifestream.


The world of FF7 means the world of FF7. All of the FF7 series takes place in the same world. FF7: DoC, FF7:CC, FF7, FF7:AC, etc theyre all in the same world of FF7. Also, AC Sephiroth was stated to be the most powerful Sephiroth.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Electricity alone can fry bread, humans do not have full control over electricity that's why they need machines to aid in controlling it. Sephiroth does have full control over the NL, he has shown numerous times doing spells without materia, throughout FF7, if his remnants can use the NL as magic even though they have limited control over the NL, then obviously the creator of them and the creator of the NL can.


No, because they specifically state it 3 times, they don't do that with any other character but Sephiroth. You can say that about any statement, but if they have said it numerous times, you can't say they just exagerrated all of those times, chances are, it's true. Omnislash isn't a simple sword maneuver, it's not even physical, the properties are unknown, and it is basically just a move to for plot purposes because Cloud really couldn't have killed Sephiroth any other way, nor is it condradicting anything, Sephiroth did not use any of his powers at all, nor was he even serious.




Willpower, spells, negative lifestream.


The world of FF7 means the world of FF7. All of the FF7 series takes place in the same world. FF7: DoC, FF7:CC, FF7, FF7:AC, etc theyre all in the same world of FF7. Also, AC Sephiroth was stated to be the most powerful Sephiroth.
Show me the numerous times please....

Yet a sword manourver killed him.....and from your own words, a featless one without any known properties.....


How can he destroy them with Negative lifestream? ive not seen it destroy people myself, please show.

Yes but surely the world currently in FF7 is not the world previous in FF7, things die, for example currently, Neg lifesream exists, previously it did not, currently do the Weapons exist? whats been destroyed that current? whats beein destroyed that was in FF7 whole story but is now gone?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Show me the numerous times please....
Sephiroth had so materia in the last fight in FF7, so every spell from the last battle were non-materia, the barrier he put up over the northern crator was his own spell.


Its hardly a sword maneuver, it's not even physical. It has unknown properties because its simply a plot villain killer, it would kill any villain, thats what omnislash is there for.


The lifestream destroyed meteor? And i've given u an example already of Denzels mom who was exposed to it died, and Denzel just being close to the body was caught with geostigma. Sephiroth in CC jumped into the lifestream and his body was disintegrated.


It is the same world, same characters, Minerva has existed since the planet itself, the original WEAPONs were created by the Cetra shortly after Jenova came to the planet, Omega weapon was created specially by Minerva, but was destroyed by Chaos Vincent, which was approx. 2000 years before the game started.

Just let it go.. Sephiroth is the most powerful character in FF7.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Sephiroth had no materia in the last fight in FF7, so every spell from the last battle were non-materia, the barrier he put up over the northern crator was his own spell.


fixed

Originally posted by Terryc250
Just let it go.. Sephiroth is the most powerful character in FF7.

But he won't let it go. He will keep arguing and arguing until he thinks he's won, which will never happen. Sephiroth is the most poerful FF7 character, fact.

Its not fact at all, an actual in-game reason makes it fact, not some translation from a dude who sells the games and knows how populour his character has become who is then contradicted by the fact Sephiroth is defeated anyway despite being more powerful than the weapons and the Goddess herself.

Perhaps this brings to light new truths, perhaps the world of FF moves at such a slow average speed, that even the average humans speed seems like light to them and so, Chaos and Weiss are really quite slow, and Sephiroth goes at human speed...thus making him greater than they are. Same with the weapons, their so fragile, like butter could withstand more than them...just so Sephiroth can defeat them. I mean all of these things would have to be the case if Cloud (aka sad emo with a big sword) can defeat the most powerful FF7 being.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Sephiroth had so materia in the last fight in FF7, so every spell from the last battle were non-materia, the barrier he put up over the northern crator was his own spell.


Its hardly a sword maneuver, it's not even physical. It has unknown properties because its simply a plot villain killer, it would kill any villain, thats what omnislash is there for.


The lifestream destroyed meteor? And i've given u an example already of Denzels mom who was exposed to it died, and Denzel just being close to the body was caught with geostigma. Sephiroth in CC jumped into the lifestream and his body was disintegrated.


It is the same world, same characters, Minerva has existed since the planet itself, the original WEAPONs were created by the Cetra shortly after Jenova came to the planet, Omega weapon was created specially by Minerva, but was destroyed by Chaos Vincent, which was approx. 2000 years before the game started.

Just let it go.. Sephiroth is the most powerful character in FF7.

WHat last battle? safer?

Its still featless.....aka....worthless, also what says its not physical?

The lifestream but not the negative lifestream? I see......
diffrent things powered by diffrent wills...great so they would die of a disease...damn!

Yeh but what about right at the end of the latest FF, do all the weapons exist? destroyed are they not?

so since were using CURRENT sephiroth, CURRENT sephiroth in line with the dudes words on him being the strongest in the FF world, doesnt include dead things, because their not in the world anymore

Originally posted by Burning thought
Its not fact at all, an actual in-game reason makes it fact, not some translation from a dude who sells the games and knows how populour his character has become who is then contradicted by the fact Sephiroth is defeated anyway despite being more powerful than the weapons and the Goddess herself.
The creators stating it numerous times makes it fact. No matter how much you think you know about the game, obviously the creator knows more, since he plans each characters power, strength, plot, story, everything, even the future.

If he says Minerva is more powerful then Chaos Vincent, then we have no choice but to believe that Minerva is more powerful no matter how much you want to debate it, the creators stating it makes it fact.

There was nothing at all contradicting. We haven't seen even close to Sephiroths full abilities, all we know is that its atleast above the other characters which makes him the most powerful character. Sephiroth was defeated by an unknown move that would take out any character.


Huh?? That makes no sense.. Why would the world of FF move at a slow average speed?

Cloud beat Sephiroth with a PIS move, with him not using any of his powers, Sephiroths full power is still at an unknown limit, but the creators state he's the most powerful character so we know its atleast above the others. Omnislash has no properties it was simply a move the creators put in that was powerful enough to defeat Sephiroth. If Omnislash had properties say it was just regular slashes from a sword, THEN it would be contradicting because we can gauge the level of damage, but it's not, its not even physical its simply unknown.

Originally posted by Terryc250
The creators stating it numerous times makes it fact. No matter how much you think you know about the game, obviously the creator knows more, since he plans each characters power, strength, plot, story, everything, even the future.

If he says Minerva is more powerful then Chaos Vincent, then we have no choice but to believe that Minerva is more powerful no matter how much you want to debate it, the creators stating it makes it fact.

There was nothing at all contradicting. We haven't seen even close to Sephiroths full abilities, all we know is that its atleast above the other characters which makes him the most powerful character. Sephiroth was defeated by an unknown move that would take out any character.


Huh?? That makes no sense.. Why would the world of FF move at a slow average speed?

Cloud beat Sephiroth with a PIS move, with him not using any of his powers, Sephiroths full power is still at an unknown limit, but the creators state he's the most powerful character so we know its atleast above the others. Omnislash has no properties it was simply a move the creators put in that was powerful enough to defeat Sephiroth. If Omnislash had properties say it was just regular slashes from a sword, THEN it would be contradicting because we can gauge the level of damage, but it's not, its not even physical its simply unknown.

Sure he knows more but not every statement a developmer makes is A: credible and B: official, if the CEO of Eidios runs out of a bar drunk and starts telling reporters Kain is omnipotent! its not a credible source and wont be used and truth....

Would take out any character Galactus including? lol....no I dont think so...

Everything I said was making a mockery of how things work both ways, if Sephiroth is more powerful than Weapons, Minerva, yet all hes shown is being defeated by a queer emo kid with a big sword then its obvious, all those beings that you find impressive like the weapons or minerva are weak, Weapons perhaps break like glass, Minerva is prob not much more of a Goddess than I am....things work both ways.

But what says its not physical? i mean we know its using the Buster sword which obviously is physical....

Originally posted by Burning thought
Sure he knows more but not every statement a developmer makes is A: credible and B: official, if the CEO of Eidios runs out of a bar drunk and starts telling reporters Kain is omnipotent! its not a credible source and wont be used and truth....

That never happened, give me a better example. The fact that he has said it numerous times in both interviews and in the UOG means its canon. If the storywriter/producer of LOK said in an a LOK Guide that there is no other being more powerful then Kain in Nosgoth, then that would make Kain the most powerful character. The creators literally said that about Sephiroth 3 times.


Again it's an unknown attack, most likely it wouldn't because Galactus is on a whole different scale compared to FF7.

What part of Sephiroth didn't use any of his abilities or didn't put any effort at all don't you understand? If Sephiroth went all out using everything he had and still lost to Cloud THEN you would have a point, but thats not the case.

Nothing needs to be said, it's not even the Buster sword its some sword he gains in between FF7 and AC from an unknown place. It's not physical because the sword glows, then instead of cutting him, it phases through him numerous times.

Originally posted by Terryc250
That never happened, give me a better example. The fact that he has said it numerous times in both interviews and in the UOG means its canon. If the storywriter/producer of LOK said in an a LOK Guide that there is no other being more powerful then Kain in Nosgoth, then that would make Kain the most powerful character. The creators literally said that about Sephiroth 3 times.


Again it's an unknown attack, most likely it wouldn't because Galactus is on a whole different scale compared to FF7.

What part of Sephiroth didn't use any of his abilities or didn't put any effort at all don't you understand? If Sephiroth went all out using everything he had and still lost to Cloud THEN you would have a point, but thats not the case.

Nothing needs to be said, it's not even the Buster sword its some sword he gains in between FF7 and AC from an unknown place. It's not physical because the sword glows, then instead of cutting him, it phases through him numerous times.

The guide is the only thing you mentioned worthwhile....can you show me it? scan or something?

i.e featless, its simply a sword attack

How do you know he didnt put any effort in? this has happened twice before, its not a far reach to think the fool doesnt even have half the abilities his fans or gameplay gives to him, for all his strength/speed you say he has he NEVER uses it and its not like he hasnt faced enough battles, he was beaten by CLoud before, the guy prob doesnt have all his powers. Ive still got a point none the less, Sephiroth has still shown nothing impressive so its not a far reach to think bad things about the other FF characters is Sephiroth, a near enough featless wonder who has nothing but defeats across his belt is above them.

I could have just been an incredibly fast enough of the sword that slashes him several times...a normal metal sword, nothing states it was phasing...this sounds like a fan created assumption/theory.

Originally posted by Burning thought
The guide is the only thing you mentioned worthwhile....can you show me it? scan or something?
There is no scan of the Reunion Files only translations, this was from the character notes

The Characters
Five years ago Tetsuya Nomura only designed and overlooked the physical appearances of his characters. He had some influence over various lines and personality traits, but never full control.

At the start of the AC project, he was not supervising it. However, as soon as he participated, he had a hand over the personalities, development and presentation of the characters in the sequel. He was directing for the first time and it was a job that could only be done by him, because of his large attachment to the FF7 project and Cloud.

Tetsuya Nomura:
Kitase said that Sephiroth's existence and will is extremely powerful. There is nothing stronger, nothing above him. We had a difficult time deciding on the reason why Sephiroth would appear. Originally there was an idea that the three silver haired men would unite together (and form Sephiroth) but we rejected it because it would be too comical. Kadaj had to be approached in a different way from Sephiroth. I wanted him to be intelligent and cruel, but innocent at the same time, a mentally unstable character.

Kazushige Nojima:
Kadaj is a young character. The story started two years after the original FF7 and Cloud has gotten older. Despite that, I wanted him to fight against a younger group.

Tetsuya Nomura:
Cloud tried to lead his life positively after the end of FF7 but he cracked. He lost several things during his struggle in FF7 yet found a peaceful life in the midst of that. Still, the life made him somewhat scared and lonely. The sin which Cloud thinks he owns is not anyone's fault in particular. It is something Cloud has to overcome by himself.

Kazushige Nojima:
The story is simple: If you want to be forgiven, you have to take the hard path in life. If you don't do anything, you'll never be healed. Cloud takes his sword, fights and chooses to go through that hard path. Then finally, he is given healing and forgiveness.


It's feat is being able to defeat Sephiroth, the most powerful character in FF7.


From the UOG translation, and blatantly obvious on-screen Sephiroth approach
-It's said that Cloud was outmatched when it came to the fight with Sephiroth. Sorry everybody who thinks that Cloud was almost on par with him: he wasn't. Even worse for Cloud, Nomura said that Sephiroth didn't sweat during the entire fight and never exerted himself. In other words, he wasn't even trying hard. Cloud on the other hand was clearly giving it his all and was described by the book as exhausted by the time the battle was nearing its conclusion.

Why wouldn't he have all his powers? He has shown the tip of his power and abilities throughout the movie and games. He also does have feats, like holding back Holy, infecting the planet, creating a plague, taking control over the lifestream.


No, its common logic when people look at the video without anti-Sephiroth glasses on. What states his sword is a normal metal sword? normal metal swords don't have the durability to cut up concrete buildings for one.

5:50, do you see any sword cuts? Or sword injury? It clearly phases through his body. When he's in the air do you see even a blemish of a sword wound?
nbwiDIy-m2Y