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Well, Jeph writing has been compare to Liefeld's artwork (that bad) but the man somehow makes the money.

Qty Rank Retail Rank Index Description Price Ven

1 1 110.74 ULTIMATUM #1 (Of 5)* $3.99 MAR
2 2 100.00 BATMAN #681 RIP* $3.99 DC
3 6 88.00 HULK #8* $2.99 MAR
4 7 86.19 WOLVERINE #69 $2.99 MAR
5 9 75.40 UNCANNY X-MEN #504 MD $2.99 MAR


As you can see his books took first and third place....Sooooo...how do ya explain this?

313

What do those numbers mean? And where can you find that stuff, seems like cool information.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Well, Jeph writing has been compare to Liefeld's artwork (that bad) but the man somehow makes the money.

Qty Rank Retail Rank Index Description Price Ven

1 1 110.74 ULTIMATUM #1 (Of 5)* $3.99 MAR
2 2 100.00 BATMAN #681 RIP* $3.99 DC
3 6 88.00 HULK #8* $2.99 MAR
4 7 86.19 WOLVERINE #69 $2.99 MAR
5 9 75.40 UNCANNY X-MEN #504 MD $2.99 MAR


As you can see his books took first and third place....Sooooo...how do ya explain this?

313

the fact that uncanny x-men is in the top five lessens my faith in the comic buying public...

Originally posted by Raoul
the fact that uncanny x-men is in the top five lessens my faith in the comic buying public...

I can let X-men slide...because it is a popular title....but Loeb's books?





Am I missing something here? Has he really become that GOOD of a writer?



I'm CONFUZZLED!

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Well, Jeph writing has been compare to Liefeld's artwork (that bad) but the man somehow makes the money.

Qty Rank Retail Rank Index Description Price Ven

1 1 110.74 ULTIMATUM #1 (Of 5)* $3.99 MAR
2 2 100.00 BATMAN #681 RIP* $3.99 DC
3 6 88.00 HULK #8* $2.99 MAR
4 7 86.19 WOLVERINE #69 $2.99 MAR
5 9 75.40 UNCANNY X-MEN #504 MD $2.99 MAR


As you can see his books took first and third place....Sooooo...how do ya explain this?

313

People like crap... Just like American cars...they make a lot of noise, goes fast, cheap but bad on gas and quality.

Originally posted by Raoul
the fact that uncanny x-men is in the top five lessens my faith in the comic buying public...

Probably the same reason Batman R.I.P is in there also...people like to watch train wrecks and bloody car accidents

Originally posted by Anti-Monitor
People like crap...
This.

Rob Liefeld drawn books have always sold well too.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I can let X-men slide...because it is a popular title....but Loeb's books?





Am I missing something here? Has he really become that GOOD of a writer?



I'm CONFUZZLED!

I hate Ultimatum/Ultimates.....but i like the Hulk title alot...i have liked it from the start.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Well, Jeph writing has been compare to Liefeld's artwork (that bad) but the man somehow makes the money.

Qty Rank Retail Rank Index Description Price Ven

1 1 110.74 ULTIMATUM #1 (Of 5)* $3.99 MAR
2 2 100.00 BATMAN #681 RIP* $3.99 DC
3 6 88.00 HULK #8* $2.99 MAR
4 7 86.19 WOLVERINE #69 $2.99 MAR
5 9 75.40 UNCANNY X-MEN #504 MD $2.99 MAR


As you can see his books took first and third place....Sooooo...how do ya explain this?

313

The Hulk book is fun. Mindless fun, yes, but still fun to read. It probably has fairly broad appeal. Ultimatum is the first in a series so it gets a boost just from people being curious.

comic book fans that like good stories are not the majority buyers in the market.

Reading Ultimatum. New theory: Loeb has been replaced by Mightygodking.

While the average age of readers is slightly higher, the mode is assuredly about 15-16, which is where the large majority of Marvel's readership lies. Loeb appeals to the teenage fanboys who love a good action story, but aren't prepared to appreciate nuance. Most kids don't get into comics to read Neil Gaiman, for example. They start picking up comics to see Hulk smash things, and the like.

There are exceptions, of course, but there's a reason we call them exceptions.

So he will continue writing, and continue doing well, simply because he appeals to a fairly large demographic that Marvel wishes to target.

I don't really keep up with current monthlies of DC or Marvel, but I recall that the things by Loeb I read, I kinda liked...some of it is certainly more style than substance, but why do you guys dislike him o much?

All of his characters are childishly overpowered, he only has a few basic plots most of the time, and he generally doesn't try to write much except beat-em-up slobberknockers. Occasionally cool, but never deeper than a middle school student's daydreams.

Here's a fun rant I stole from Scoobless's profile. Neither he nor I wrote it, but it's pretty funny, and encapsulates a lot of peoples' feelings well.

It was written just before the last few issues of Red Hulk:

Hmm, I guess, I only read the first 8-10 issues of Superman/Batman, which I didn't find too bad, I thought Hush was a pretty good story and I really, really, really liked The Long Halloween and Dark Victory, they were awesome. But that might be too little to really judge him and I can see how that would be pretty annoying if he did do that.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf

As you can see his books took first and third place....Sooooo...how do ya explain this?

313

In the same way I'd explain that your favourite Batman storyline of all time, RIP, made it as well

Originally posted by Bardock42
Hmm, I guess, I only read the first 8-10 issues of Superman/Batman, which I didn't find too bad, I thought Hush was a pretty good story and I really, really, really liked The Long Halloween and Dark Victory, they were awesome. But that might be too little to really judge him and I can see how that would be pretty annoying if he did do that.

his son died not so long ago... that seemed to coincide with his descent into shittyville...

loeb was a great superman writer for years, his stuff is some of my favourite superman stuff...

Once again DigiMark007 (hehehe....) brings another illuminating post.

Originally posted by willRules
In the same way I'd explain that your favourite Batman storyline of all time, RIP, made it as well

You know something...why is it that the it is always the over-hyped Batman stories that sell the most? Batman and Robin All Star sold pretty good...but Batman Confidential rarely goes anywhere.....this is a case even the World's Greatest Detective can't solve.

Originally posted by Raoul
his son died not so long ago... that seemed to coincide with his descent into shittyville...

loeb was a great superman writer for years, his stuff is some of my favourite superman stuff... Yep, I think his son was his ghostwriter, or at least someone that would throw in imput, or someone to bounce ideas off of. I even felt his DC books were going to shit around that time too.

Although, even in his 'good' stories, he left behind a mess another writer would have take a handful of issues just to clean up before telling their story, I always hated that.

Oh right, he wrote Superman for all seasons.

That was actually an enjoyable Superman comic.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Once again DigiMark007 (hehehe....) brings another illuminating post.



You know something...why is it that the it is always the over-hyped Batman stories that sell the most? Batman and Robin All Star sold pretty good...but Batman Confidential rarely goes anywhere.....this is a case even the World's Greatest Detective can't solve.


Batman's primary books will always sell good.

Originally posted by Juntai
Batman's primary books will always sell good.

That certainly wasn't the case with Legends of the Dark Knight.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Hmm, I guess, I only read the first 8-10 issues of Superman/Batman, which I didn't find too bad, I thought Hush was a pretty good story and I really, really, really liked The Long Halloween and Dark Victory, they were awesome. But that might be too little to really judge him and I can see how that would be pretty annoying if he did do that.

Actually, I'll happily concede your point. Long Halloween was excellent, and most point to his work on Batman as his best work (though sometimes as his only good work).

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
That certainly wasn't the case with Legends of the Dark Knight. I said primary books. Detective, and Batman. Legends of the Dark Knight started out strong and lasted a good length of time however, it just dropped off hard near the end. I don't think that Confidential will last long as a book either, I think it's primarly there to change pieces of continuity in Superman and Batman's history. Like the new Joker origin, the Batgirl and Wrath stories, etc, or the Kryptonite and New God one in the Superman Confidential.

Originally posted by Anti-Monitor
People like crap... Just like American cars...they make a lot of noise, goes fast, cheap but bad on gas and quality.

Originally posted by Juntai
Yep, I think his son was his ghostwriter, or at least someone that would throw in imput, or someone to bounce ideas off of. I even felt his DC books were going to shit around that time too.

Although, even in his 'good' stories, he left behind a mess another writer would have take a handful of issues just to clean up before telling their story, I always hated that.

yeah, that's true too... though i didn't care, as long as the stories he'd written were good lol...

Originally posted by Juntai
I said primary books. Detective, and Batman. Legends of the Dark Knight started out strong and lasted a good length of time however, it just dropped off hard near the end. I don't think that Confidential will last long as a book either, I think it's primarly there to change pieces of continuity in Superman and Batman's history. Like the new Joker origin, the Batgirl and Wrath stories, etc, or the Kryptonite and New God one in the Superman Confidential.

I really hope Batman Confidential dies soon. That Joker origin storyline was awful.

It was just to boost sales for the book. DC wanted milk the Joker image as much as possible. Earlier the Catwoman/Batgirl story was pretty fun and comical.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
It was just to boost sales for the book. DC wanted milk the Joker image as much as possible. Earlier the Catwoman/Batgirl story was pretty fun and comical. THe Joker origin was before the Catwoman and Batgirl one.

Originally posted by Juntai
THe Joker origin was before the Catwoman and Batgirl one.

That is correct...I didn't read his post correctly. I thought he was talking about the recent apperance of Joker story in issue #22.

Originally posted by Digi
All of his characters are childishly overpowered, he only has a few basic plots most of the time, and he generally doesn't try to write much except beat-em-up slobberknockers. Occasionally cool, but never deeper than a middle school student's daydreams.

Here's a fun rant I stole from Scoobless's profile. Neither he nor I wrote it, but it's pretty funny, and encapsulates a lot of peoples' feelings well.

It was written just before the last few issues of Red Hulk:

To be fair to Loeb, he has written some ****ing amazing stuff in the past. Its no coincidence that his Sale collaborations are regarded as some of the most highly accoladed books around. If he's lost it, then so what ? Have you read any of Alan Moores most recent stuff (the dossier being the exception). If i was told that Gary Glitter on crack had written the Lost Girls, I wouldn't have been surprised. IMO, even Loebs most recent stuff isn't nearly as bad as other titles that are being produced. I mean some of Kurt Brusieks run on Superman was dangerous to mental health and Peter Davids most recent run on the Hulk, felt like id had waken up from a week longer bender.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
To be fair to Loeb, he has written some ****ing amazing stuff in the past. Its no coincidence that his Sale collaborations are regarded as some of the most highly accoladed books around. If he's lost it, then so what ? Have you read any of Alan Moores most recent stuff (the dossier being the exception). If i was told that Gary Glitter on crack had written the Lost Girls, I wouldn't have been surprised. IMO, even Loebs most recent stuff isn't nearly as bad as other titles that are being produced. I mean some of Kurt Brusieks run on Superman was dangerous to mental health and Peter Davids most recent run on the Hulk, felt like id had waken up from a week longer bender.

His Batman stuff is amazing. Long Halloween is epic and I fell in love with the original Hush storyline (possibly because of the art) but Ultimates vol 3 was just terrible. What makes it worse was that it was obviously comparable to vol 1 and 2 and it makes me cry that they didn't just wait for Millar to return to the title.

Only person other than Millar I'd want on Ultimates is someone like Warren Ellis so he could give it a touch of the early Authority series in it's tone....

Originally posted by willRules
His Batman stuff is amazing. Long Halloween is epic and I fell in love with the original Hush storyline (possibly because of the art) but Ultimates vol 3 was just terrible. What makes it worse was that it was obviously comparable to vol 1 and 2 and it makes me cry that they didn't just wait for Millar to return to the title.

Only person other than Millar I'd want on Ultimates is someone like Warren Ellis so he could give it a touch of the early Authority series in it's tone....

Yeah, Long Hallloween and Dark Victory are superb stories, and i think Hush was brilliant write up the part when Jason Todd wasn't the bad guy.

The Ultimate universe has been a casualty of its own success. I wish Marvel had treated it more like an Else-world, like the Dark Knight universe. I.e. they would only go back to it when they had some epic storyline to keep its quality consistent. If you put all your best writers on books, and then expect them to write all the mainstream books simultaneously, something is going to go wrong. The problem is, the ultimate verse is no longer a priority to Marvel, so its lagging behind like a mid table premiership team.

I would have stopped the Ultimate title the minute Millar left the book, and I would have left it until some one else came along with a comparatively epic story. The same goes with Ultimate X-men and FF4.

I wouldn't have Ellis on the title though. Its too simillar to what Millar did. Id rather have Ellis on the Mainstream Avenger Team, where he can really do something different. I think he would thrive on of the political and moral dilemas that have emerged out of S.I. and Civil War. It would be like Morisson writing the New X-men all over again.Id love to see the Avengers act like black ops team simillar to Joe Kellys Justice League Elite, or a UN army force as in Ellis's stormwatch. Also he'd bring a sci-fi element to Marvel, which it is really lacking at the moment.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Yeah, Long Hallloween and Dark Victory are superb stories, and i think Hush was brilliant write up the part when Jason Todd wasn't the bad guy.

The Ultimate universe has been a casualty of its own success. I wish Marvel had treated it more like an Else-world, like the Dark Knight universe. I.e. they would only go back to it when they had some epic storyline to keep its quality consistent. If you put all your best writers on books, and then expect them to write all the mainstream books simultaneously, something is going to go wrong. The problem is, the ultimate verse is no longer a priority to Marvel, so its lagging behind like a mid table premiership team.

I would have stopped the Ultimate title the minute Millar left the book, and I would have left it until some one else came along with a comparatively epic story. The same goes with Ultimate X-men and FF4.

I wouldn't have Ellis on the title though. Its too simillar to what Millar did. Id rather have Ellis on the Mainstream Avenger Team, where he can really do something different. I think he would thrive on of the political and moral dilemas that have emerged out of S.I. and Civil War. It would be like Morisson writing the New X-men all over again.Id love to see the Avengers act like black ops team simillar to Joe Kellys Justice League Elite, or a UN army force as in Ellis's stormwatch. Also he'd bring a sci-fi element to Marvel, which it is really lacking at the moment.

Interesting points.....

Wow, you actually.....changed my opinion. It hurts me to say this, but I....I think you're right.....

Here, you are rewarded with a catchy song....

MB2F6nagjKs

Originally posted by willRules
Interesting points.....

Wow, you actually.....changed my opinion. It hurts me to say this, but I....I think you're right.....

Here, you are rewarded with a catchy song....

MB2F6nagjKs

I prefer Ashes, i use to listen to it all the time when England where in the last world cup and I was in Oxford doing my A levels.

I've asked around and apparently Marvel is still beating DC, albeit narowly, in sales. I figure this is because FC is "Too complicated." **** the average reader.

It's obvious to everyone on this forum that SI was an unmitigated disaster. And FC is by far the better read.

Honestly, Johns and Morrison seem to be the only consistent writers right now. Busiek is pretty good when he's writing Big Blue.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Honestly, Johns and Morrison seem to be the only consistent writers right now.
Consistently garbage.

Originally posted by Vally Doosh
My posts are consistently garbage.
Fixed!

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I've asked around and apparently Marvel is still beating DC, albeit narowly, in sales. I figure this is because FC is "Too complicated." **** the average reader.

It's obvious to everyone on this forum that SI was an unmitigated disaster. And FC is by far the better read.

Honestly, Johns and Morrison seem to be the only consistent writers right now. Busiek is pretty good when he's writing Big Blue.

SI did what it was intended to do. Didio is forcing changes to the end of FC down Morrison's throat.
And it is pretty bloody complicated...and slow.

i actually havent felt it to be that slow, to be honest... ok, its not the most exciting book going, but there's a decent bit of progression, which imo will nicely set up the finale.

the only complications i've found have been the true power levels of the new gods in relation to their older forms. otherwise, i think the story is easy enough to follow...

SI was a disjointed mess with almost zero pacing or development. it was just going from action scene to action scene (though some of them were pretty nice) with plenty of 'he loves you' thrown in the middle.

just my 2c...