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Fight in NYC.

IMO Mags beats Diana, and Apoc vs. MM is probably a stalemate.

So I'd give the narrow edge to team one.

Does Magneto have his helmet ?

WW throws her bracelets at Magneto, knocking him straight out, and then it's two vs one.

Apocalypse wins.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Does Magneto have his helmet ? yes

Either character on team two can solo.

Originally posted by Harbinger
Either character on team two can solo.

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/7227/lolwhuttranslated384267dn3.jpg

^

Originally posted by Harbinger
^

You're probably right though.

Originally posted by Enyalus
IMO Mags beats Diana, and Apoc vs. MM is probably a stalemate.

So I'd give the narrow edge to team one.

Was distracted at work before and didn't take into account that J'onn has more iron in his blood than a typical human does.

So instead of the narrow edge - team one wins easily.

Originally posted by Harbinger
Either character on team two can solo.

I agree neither magneto or apocalypse have the strength and speed to compete with john or diana.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Was distracted at work before and didn't take into account that J'onn has more iron in his blood than a typical human does.

So instead of the narrow edge - team one wins easily.

The speed and strength advantage is far to great favoring team 2, Diana or MM could cross the gap before either team 2 could react....pure stomp for team 2.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
The speed and strength advantage is far to great favoring team 2, Diana or MM could cross the gap before either team 2 could react....pure stomp for team 2.

riiiiiiiiiiight

Originally posted by The Great Galen
The speed and strength advantage is far to great favoring team 2, Diana or MM could cross the gap before either team 2 could react....pure stomp for team 2.

Both have been put down at the same time by Dr. Polaris before.

And, again, Magneto's shields are instantaneous. That, and Apocalypse's body can be fluid, much like Plastic Man.

And MM can become intangible and has complete molecure control, Diana only needs to lasso them both at high speeds for the win....and manhunter can easily penetrate mags"shields...its compelty onesided.
'

Nevermind. I'm not dealing with this stupidity yet again.



Team One wins.

Team 2 has overwhealming speed and strength, diana could easily wrap her lasso around team 1 before they could react....ur not negating feats again right mr"mag can beat supes"lol.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Team 2 has overwhealming speed and strength, diana could easily wrap her lasso around team 1 before they could react....ur not negating feats again right mr"mag can beat supes"lol.

Team Two does not have an overwhelming strength advantage. Apoc can amp himself to be stronger than the Hulk. They start .5 km away. And this fight is in character. J'onn is a nonfactor because of the high iron content in his system. Mags would be able to sense him miles off.

The fight is at full capcity meaning characters fighting at the best of there abilites, MM can become intangible and even change the molecures in how body and if anything Apoc is the none factor. How do u figure WW and MM don't have a strength advantage is beyond me, the speed advantage is alone to secure Apco getting lasso'ed and mag getting penetrated by MM...there is nothing they can do.

CIS is also on. They fight to the best of their abilities while in character.


The rest I'm not even going to bother with. Like I said before, T-2 wins. If you think otherwise, fine. But I'm not arguing with you. Its less productive than slamming one's head against a brick wall.

Well hey if you're going to negate consistent showings of speed,strength and strategy and only apply the merit of full capctiy to characters you prefer good ahead...IMO Diana lassos team 1 10/10

Full capacity within character. If you can show me Diana and J'onn bullrushing someone from half a mile away immediately at the outset of the battle, then by all means.


Mags and Apoc are villains. They're naturally more ruthless. It's in character.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Full capacity within character. If you can show me Diana and J'onn bullrushing someone from half a mile away immediately at the outset of the battle, then by all means.


Mags and Apoc are villains. They're naturally more ruthless. It's in character.

Diana blitzing a villian into outter space before the JLA members noticed...covering the gab from earth to orbit nearly instanly. http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/01/17/1228641_600x921.jpg

MM blitzing past continents http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u131/jason-todd/Jimscomic128.jpg

MM bullrusing white martians and giant machines just before http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u131/jason-todd/Jimscomic169.jpgThat one is after blitzing around the world in the time it takes to draw a breath.

Both have already used speed to engage opponents...half a mile away is suddenly going to become a problem?

Looks like those white martians were fighting someone else, and not MM.

I would say Team one because of Apocalypse but Martian Manhunter may shake things up. If Martian Manhunter can somehow take out Apocalypse or offer team two and advantage over him, than maybe they win. MM would take magneto one on one, and Apoc would take WW one on one. However, I am not sure about WW and Magneto. At first I thought Diana easily, but if they fight in a city or a place where there is a enormous supply of metal than Magneto could win, also he could use diana's metal bands and tiara to his advantage.

Apocalypse is being MASSIVELY underrated here. At his best he's easily..EASILY the equal of MM.

Apocalypse's powerset gives him compete control over his body's molecules- enough to amp himself to hulk like strength levels, speed that was better than quicksilver's (I know, I know...), Psi-powers enough to slap around Jean Grey and mentally KO Xavier, and durability high enough to flat out ignore full on assaults from an entire team of Xmen and Inhumans. He DOES have forcefields and the innate ability to teleport, and has an intelligence in the super genius range and is sitting on a seemingly unlimited supply of celestial tech.

He's taken out Ikaris with laughable ease (Ikaris has superman's powerset including superspeed, though I will admit Ike is weaker overall) and fought and forcibly BFRed the high evolutionary- the same one who briefly went head to head with galactus and is WAAAAAAAAAY stronger than Diana or MM.

hell, I might even go so far as to suggest apocalypse's complete domination of Ikaris is a very good argument for his beating down MM, since their powersets are pretty similar, only Ike has no weaknesses and MUCH MUCH better energy projection.

MM is the weak link here. The fire vulnerability is well known by everyone by now, and Apocalypse's powerset (again, whatever he wants it to be) is pretty much tailor made to exploit it. Remember, MM was recently owned and KILLED due to...fire darts, was it? He also can't keep up superman-level output for very long before it wears out his body. Apocalypse doesn't really have that problem.

Yeah, apocalypse has had some terrible showings, but at his best he can take out nearly anyone.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Apocalypse is being MASSIVELY underrated here. At his best he's easily..EASILY the equal of MM.

Apocalypse's powerset gives him compete control over his body's molecules- enough to amp himself to hulk like strength levels, speed that was better than quicksilver's (I know, I know...), Psi-powers enough to slap around Jean Grey and mentally KO Xavier, and durability high enough to flat out ignore full on assaults from an entire team of Xmen and Inhumans. He DOES have forcefields and the innate ability to teleport, and has an intelligence in the super genius range and is sitting on a seemingly unlimited supply of celestial tech.

He's taken out Ikaris with laughable ease (Ikaris has superman's powerset including superspeed, though I will admit Ike is weaker overall) and fought and forcibly BFRed the high evolutionary- the same one who briefly went head to head with galactus and is WAAAAAAAAAY stronger than Diana or MM.

hell, I might even go so far as to suggest apocalypse's complete domination of Ikaris is a very good argument for his beating down MM, since their powersets are pretty similar, only Ike has no weaknesses and MUCH MUCH better energy projection.

MM is the weak link here. The fire vulnerability is well known by everyone by now, and Apocalypse's powerset (again, whatever he wants it to be) is pretty much tailor made to exploit it. Remember, MM was recently owned and KILLED due to...fire darts, was it? He also can't keep up superman-level output for very long before it wears out his body. Apocalypse doesn't really have that problem.

Yeah, apocalypse has had some terrible showings, but at his best he can take out nearly anyone.

I would agree with you, but I am trying to give MM the benefit of the doubt since I have not made my way over to his respect thread or anything

Originally posted by Silent Guardian
I would agree with you, but I am trying to give MM the benefit of the doubt since I have not made my way over to his respect thread or anything

MM has a very very good powerset and a lot of decent feats. at his peak he's NEARLY the equivalent of diana or superman. The only flaw in the ointment is:

1.) MM can't sustain a superman-level output for very long. Normally he's a lot weaker than they are

2.) That weakness to fire means anyone with access to flame based powers can depower (uh oh!) and kill him. That's probably the dealbreaker moreso than #1, since apoc can invent powers when it suits him- fire based attacks would be pretty easy.

MM might be faster (there aren't really any concrete limits on apoc's speed that anyone knows about) but Apoc has shown himself to be able to counter speedsters (Quicksilver and Ikaris both have superspeed), has innate forcefields, and can teleport himself OR other beings at will. MM could very easily find himself Teleported into a volcano or a sun somewhere if Apoc really wanted to do him in.

MM's TP is also very good, but Apoc has shown himself to not only be totally immune to telepathy when he wants to, but has mentally knocked out Xavier (#1 on marvel earth) Beaten down Jean Grey (Top 5) and has Sinister frightened to death of him, and sinister is ALSO top 5. That's a very good argument that TP isn't really going to work.

Apoc has the advantage in a Apoc/MM matchup. Wonder Woman versus apoc would probably be more interesting...

Originally posted by Space M ummy
MM has a very very good powerset and a lot of decent feats. at his peak he's NEARLY the equivalent of diana or superman. The only flaw in the ointment is:

1.) MM can't sustain a superman-level output for very long. Normally he's a lot weaker than they are

2.) That weakness to fire means anyone with access to flame based powers can depower (uh oh!) and kill him. That's probably the dealbreaker moreso than #1, since apoc can invent powers when it suits him- fire based attacks would be pretty easy.

MM might be faster (there aren't really any concrete limits on apoc's speed that anyone knows about) but Apoc has shown himself to be able to counter speedsters (Quicksilver and Ikaris both have superspeed), has innate forcefields, and can teleport himself OR other beings at will. MM could very easily find himself Teleported into a volcano or a sun somewhere if Apoc really wanted to do him in.

MM's TP is also very good, but Apoc has shown himself to not only be totally immune to telepathy when he wants to, but has mentally knocked out Xavier (#1 on marvel earth) Beaten down Jean Grey (Top 5) and has Sinister frightened to death of him, and sinister is ALSO top 5. That's a very good argument that TP isn't really going to work.

Apoc has the advantage in a Apoc/MM matchup. Wonder Woman versus apoc would probably be more interesting...

I do not think Sinister is top 5 on earth for psychic powers, but I'll look into it. Also Apoc would own wonder woman. Sorry for all you WW fanboys and girls out there

Didn't J'onnz get over his fire weakness?

Originally posted by Harbinger
Didn't J'onnz get over his fire weakness?

er...no. in fact he was just murdered due to his fire weakness.

Originally posted by Harbinger
Didn't J'onnz get over his fire weakness?

Partially. He cannot be hurt by regular fire, but fire started with malign intent or something can hurt him.....

Mags vs Chuck

http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/4254/ultimatum026qs0.th.jpghttp://img184.imageshack.us/img184/903/ultimatum027qt4.th.jpg

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Apocalypse is being MASSIVELY underrated here. At his best he's easily..EASILY the equal of MM.

Apocalypse's powerset gives him compete control over his body's molecules- enough to amp himself to hulk like strength levels, speed that was better than quicksilver's (I know, I know...), Psi-powers enough to slap around Jean Grey and mentally KO Xavier, and durability high enough to flat out ignore full on assaults from an entire team of Xmen and Inhumans. He DOES have forcefields and the innate ability to teleport, and has an intelligence in the super genius range and is sitting on a seemingly unlimited supply of celestial tech.

He's taken out Ikaris with laughable ease (Ikaris has superman's powerset including superspeed, though I will admit Ike is weaker overall) and fought and forcibly BFRed the high evolutionary- the same one who briefly went head to head with galactus and is WAAAAAAAAAY stronger than Diana or MM.

hell, I might even go so far as to suggest apocalypse's complete domination of Ikaris is a very good argument for his beating down MM, since their powersets are pretty similar, only Ike has no weaknesses and MUCH MUCH better energy projection.

MM is the weak link here. The fire vulnerability is well known by everyone by now, and Apocalypse's powerset (again, whatever he wants it to be) is pretty much tailor made to exploit it. Remember, MM was recently owned and KILLED due to...fire darts, was it? He also can't keep up superman-level output for very long before it wears out his body. Apocalypse doesn't really have that problem.

Yeah, apocalypse has had some terrible showings, but at his best he can take out nearly anyone.

At one time, I'd have cosigned this............but Apocalypse doesn't use his admittedly ****ing uber powerset to even a quarter of it's potential most of the time. And most of those examples just don't compare to MM's feats. None of those people are higher than low herald at best. The DC top tiers that J'onn fights are just flat out better most of the time. The martian is in a higher league. You are grossly lowballing him.

Spetznaz put it best.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=437210&highlight=apocalypse%2C+world+beater

Originally posted by spetznaz
This is an interesting thread, and good points can be made for either side.

The main thing, IMO, is that the Martian Manhunter is seriously disrespected on KMC. I've read in the past all sorts of posts that make him seem like some nobody (one person even said that he was not even important in the JLA, when anyone who reads comics knows that it is the ManHunter who is the BACKBONE of the JLA, who has always been with the JLA since its beginning, and without whom there would have been no League ....but someone comes up and says he is not important).

His level of strength has been downplayed (he is one of the strongest heroes), his speed ignored (he is exceedingly fast), his invulnerability mocked (the guy is basically immortal, and is even able to regenerate lost body parts instantly ...even a head .....although that is almost never necessary because he is very resilient), his telepathy looked down on (any time you see someone comparing MM with Xavier it just goes to show they know nothing of the Manhunter .....he is beyond Xavier in every single way possible), his level of strategy forgoten (the guy is smarter than everyone but Batman on the JLA), his level of lethality not taken into account (there is a reason why he has been stated, several times and by different heroes, that he is the most dangerous being on Earth .....goodness, the guy is a shapeshifting, phasing, size increasing, telepathic, Superman ....it was interesting how EASILY MM took out the evil Superman .....actually quite frightening ....spikes just came out of his body and that guy was done), and most of his other powers ignored (I once listed all his abilities, and the guy is just insane ....he even has the ability to absorb inorganic material and increase his size to gigantic levels).

Anyways, whether MM can win or not is moot in my opinion. What is more important is how people immediately discount him, when he is actually one of the more dangerous characters on DC and Marvel Earth.

As for Fenrus ....he was not an 'amped' Martian Manhunter. He was not like Superman after taking a sundip, or Popeye after eating spinach, or Bananaman after eating a banana.

That was NORMAL Martian Manhunter .....after having the blocks that made him hold back removed (that were put there by the Guardians, in the past, after they realized that the Burning Martians could become real threats on a galactic level once they discovered space travel). He did not get an amp ....he just lost his blocks, which brought out his TRUE nature.

The average MM you see is actually seriously holding back (more than Superman ever does), and yet even that iteration took out Ultraman like he was a chump!

Originally posted by spetznaz
If there was an inter-company exchange draft, Apoc is a character that needs to immediately move to DC.

He'd be a world beater. Not even a team beater ....a world beater.

This is why, for instance, I did not say who would win between MM and Apoc (because, if Apoc was written well he would be a nightmare). I decided to just concentrate on the underestimation of the Martian Manhunter (no need to touch on Apoc ....nearly everyone here knows he is written soppy and downgraded by Marvel, but MM on the other hand is written very well by DC, but most people on KMC still sleep on him ....although I'd bet most of those are Wikipedia-readers who never touch comics, check something out on Wiki, and then come and post). That is why i did not say MM would win, or Apoc would win.

But it's true .....in the same way that MM is slept on by KMC members, Apocalypse is SERIOUSLY slept on by Marvel Comics.

It is like he stole money or something!