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all in teh title

Juggernaut runs toward wall made of TRUE adamantium. the wall is thick
what happens?



(I say Jug wins cos his unstoppablity power is mystical)

Adamantium.

so Juggernaut is not unstoppable??

I think he'd push the wall.

He would never break through it.

The myth that Juggernaut was unstoppable has been proven wrong on several occasions, both by Hulk and by Thor.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
I think he'd push the wall.

Yup.

yeah but Thor and Hulk were both boosted by mystical means (Hulk was boost up by a Celestial and Thor used godblast)


can natural stuff also stop Juggernaut? if so then his unstoppablity is way overrated
(what about forcefields can they also stop him if their strong enough?)



oh and we suppose the wall is unmovable (say TOAA is holding it still )

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
yeah but Thor and Hulk were both boosted by mystical means (Hulk was boost up by a Celestial and Thor used godblast)


can natural stuff also stop Juggernaut? if so then his unstoppablity is way overrated
(what about forcefields can they also stop him if their strong enough?)



oh and we suppose the wall is unmovable (say TOAA is holding it still )

Juggernaut wouldn't be able to do anything to the wall.

A collapsing mountain held him still for like 13 years.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
A collapsing mountain held him still for like 13 years. crap I missed that part (when was that?)

then I guess this means he can be stopped with conventional means too so hes not unstoppable

wait one...in that mountain collapse was Juggernaut held still or was he able to move?

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
wait one...in that mountain collapse was Juggernaut held still or was he able to move?
He dug his way out.

Wall wins. easy.

This being the same Juggernaut that was pushing against Godblast?

And yeah it didn't take 13 years to dig his way out of mountain. He actually got out sooner then that, apparently Cyytorak had been keeping him busy for a bit.

Originally posted by janus77
Wall wins. easy.

Godblast is overrated.

Godblast vs Adamantium = Adamantium FTW

might be more of a contest if Juggernaut were on an Adamantium "track", with an Adamantium hurdle (1mm thick) which he had to smash through. give him as much time to speed up as he wants and then let him at it.

the hurdle would win though.

He moves the wall, uproots it from the ground it was on and continues moving. But he doesn't break it.

^ right.

which is why I suggested Adamantium track complete with Adamantium hurdle ...

Originally posted by janus77
might be more of a contest if Juggernaut were on an Adamantium "track", with an Adamantium hurdle (1mm thick) which he had to smash through. give him as much time to speed up as he wants and then let him at it.

the hurdle would win though. so if Jugs not really unstoppable then this means theres other natural substances that can also stop him right?

like uru? or a strong energy shield...

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
so if Jugs not really unstoppable & adamantium can stop him this means theres other natural substance that can also stop him right?

like uru? or a strong energy shield...

Yes.

Originally posted by janus77
which is why I suggested Adamantium track complete with Adamantium hurdle ...

srug He might break through. I'm sure adamantium isn't truly indestructible. It can be damaged IIRC.

People. Juggernaut has true dynamic strength. if he wants to go through the wall or break the wall down, he's going to do it. Adamantium is not truly indestructible. It's not like it's the Source or the Worlogog.

I think that the Thread Starter is asking whether or not Cain can be contained by adamantium, if we were to change the dynamics of the wall, and say that he was stuck in a 1 foot thick adamantium ball, I am pretty sure that it would hold him, he has been imprisoned by less.

Nope. he'll get out eventually. Dynamic strength.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Adamantium is not truly indestructible. It's not like it's the Source or the Worlogog.

lulz at the shameless DC plug.

Inertron and promethium aren't either indestructible.

Name something in marvel that's like that. The IG is the only thing I can think of. CCs can be destroyed. I honestly could not think of anything.

Juggernaut at his most powerful should be able to break adamantium. Adamantium is unbreakable by purely physical means, but there's more than one example of it being broken down by mystical or energy based means.

Magneto tore all of the adamantium off of wolverine's bones using magnetic force.

S'ym broke off one of wolverine's claws with his fist, and used it as a toothpick in limbo.

Thor dented cap's shield (which isn't adamantium, but should be more durable) by punching it, and king thor simply blasted a big chunk of it into atoms.

Juggernaut at his most powerful has the full (or at least a very large chunk of) power of Cyttorak. that's enough magical energy to break down adamantium's bonds, IMO- since the power of cyttorak outranks all three examples above.

the quote "Juggernaunt is unstoppable" is not entirely correct. It's actually something along the lines of "When juggernaunt moves, no object on earth can stop him".

However, I give this to Adamantium Wall FTW

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Juggernaut at his most powerful should be able to break adamantium. Adamantium is unbreakable by purely physical means, but there's more than one example of it being broken down by mystical or energy based means.

Magneto tore all of the adamantium off of wolverine's bones using magnetic force.

S'ym broke off one of wolverine's claws with his fist, and used it as a toothpick in limbo.

Thor dented cap's shield (which isn't adamantium, but should be more durable) by punching it, and king thor simply blasted a big chunk of it into atoms.

Juggernaut at his most powerful has the full (or at least a very large chunk of) power of Cyttorak. that's enough magical energy to break down adamantium's bonds, IMO- since the power of cyttorak outranks all three examples above.
He didn't break the adamantium, he destabilized it so it was malleable

The era of Wolverine dictates the strength of his adamantium I think. Plus it's limbo.

He used the Odinforce, and that's King Thor. Hopefully you're not referring to that dream sequence where he melts Wolverine.

And no he doesn't. To my knowledge, Juggernaut has never had more power than he had originally. At his strongest, by himself, he was harnessing his power more effectively, and with aid, he was possessed by spirits or something.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
He didn't break the adamantium, he destabilized it so it was malleable


true, meaning it broke down on a molecular level, so magneto was able to manipulate it that way. would cyttorak's energy be able to affect adamantium on a molecular level? I think it could.



no, it doesn't. wolverine has always been stated to be equipped with primary adamantium. It's never been retconned into "secondary" or "weaker" during certain eras.

and yes, I'm aware that happened in limbo, which is a dimension of magic, not science. Again, cyttorak's power is a massive, massive source of magical energy.



The odinforce is the power of a skyfather. Cyttorak is an ELDER GOD, not a skyfather, and outranks Odin and the Odinforce by quite a bit. This is the reason Odin had a child with Gaea (an elder god) to produce Thor, who would eventually outclass even Himself and become the strongest of the asgardians as a asgardian/elder god hybrid.



What I'm saying is that Juggernaut should be cyttorak's avatar on earth- that is, his physical incarnation capable of handling a good portion of the power of an elder god.

The only thing that really gets in the way is that juggernaut isn't really all that good at harnessing that power. He's not all that intelligent, and isn't truly evil, as cyttorak is. At his peak, he SHOULD be able to break through an adamantium wall, given the massive amount of magical energy at his disposal.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
true, meaning it broke down on a molecular level, so magneto was able to manipulate it that way. would cyttorak's energy be able to affect adamantium on a molecular level? I think it could.
I have no doubt that it could, if welded properly, but Juggernaut's abilities with his are tantamount to a magically powered Hulk. Never have I seen him use his powers to willfully manipulate matter.


Even the time he had it bonded so it was like adamantium bones and not bones coated in adamantium? I'll have to take your word for it because I'm not about to wading through Wolverine fan posts.


Cyttorak is, but Juggernaut is not. I mean, he is, but not that big.


We don't know the gap, if any, between specific skyfathers and elder gods. But again, I have no doubt Cyttorak could beat the **** out of a big ol' cube of adamantium. Juggernaut, on the other hand, only has a fraction of his power and, thus far, is only capable of using it in a mundane way.




Shoulda, woulda, coulda. I've yet to see any evidence of this. It is true that he sucks at harnessing his power, and this theory of him obtaining a larger portion of Cyttorak's power would make sense, but it's still just a theory.

Theoretically, Juggernaut could turn into Cyttorak and crack the planet, and the adamantium wall, in half with his eyelash, but thus far in the comics Juggernaut isn't truly unstoppable and adamantium isn't truly unbreakable. I have as much faith in him breaking the wall as I do Hulk, and I'd really only expect those two to do it, through brute strength, in an extreme scenario.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
The era of Wolverine dictates the strength of his adamantium I think. wasnt wolverine's adamantium always primary adamantium regardless of era ? (unlike say, ultron who started out with fake (secondary) adamantium & then upgraded to the real deal)

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
Juggernaut, on the other hand, only has a fraction of his powerbut was this ever stated?? (when?)

Originally posted by xJLxKing
the quote "Juggernaunt is unstoppable" is not entirely correct. It's actually something along the lines of "When juggernaunt moves, no object on earth can stop him".

However, I give this to Adamantium Wall FTW but isnt adamantium is also earth man made stuff?

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
He didn't break the adamantium, he destabilized it so it was malleable

The era of Wolverine dictates the strength of his adamantium I think. Plus it's limbo.

He used the Odinforce, and that's King Thor. Hopefully you're not referring to that dream sequence where he melts Wolverine.

And no he doesn't. To my knowledge, Juggernaut has never had more power than he had originally. At his strongest, by himself, he was harnessing his power more effectively, and with aid, he was possessed by spirits or something.

Dream sequence?

It happened mate.

I don't think jugs would have enough force by himself to break the wall. I mean not saying he isn't invulnerable because we are talking about 2 different things.

If there was a planet size drill made of Adamantium or something and drilling into classic juggs. He would live, and the drill bit might be dented. But to have jugs try and run and break a wall of that stuff, I don't think he has enouygh in him. Kinda like how they swung hulk into space so he can smash a asteriod. yeah he might be durable enough to do it but he might need added inertia.

For example if Silver Surfer was towing Juggs across a galaxy at top speed, and drove him into the adm, wall he would destroy it. This is just my opinion.

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
wasnt wolverine's adamantium always primary adamantium regardless of era ? (unlike say, ultron who started out with fake (secondary) adamantium & then upgraded to the real deal)
It may have been. I vaguely recall Wolverine fanboys going on and on about all broken adamantium being retconned to secondary adamantium, as well as a bunch of other crap that I really don't care to remember.


I believe it was in the Wager of Octessence area. Seems like something that would come up while explaining it.


If you take things literally like that you could easily say any object floating off the ground could stop Juggernaut because it's not on Earth. Which means the "Doctor-Alvis' Five Finger Knuckle Expressway Flying Offroad Single Suspender One Handed Superman Punch" would send him to the friggin' moon.

I have to call it before I strike, like a Falcon punch, so I've only landed it once. And that's how the dinosaurs went extinct.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Dream sequence?

It happened mate.
My bad, it was a self made alternate reality. For some reason I remembered him waking up after he killed a bunch of main characters and/or their objects.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
My bad, it was a self made alternate reality. For some reason I remembered him waking up after he killed a bunch of main characters and/or their objects.

Naw.

It happened and Thor set back time at the end of the reigning.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Naw.

It happened and Thor set back time at the end of the reigning.
Thus it happened in an alternate reality, or timeline rather.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
Thus it happened in an alternate reality, or timeline rather.

Okay, you win this one Alvis uhuh

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Okay, you win this one Alvis uhuh
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/zanpanzer/tedyeah.jpg

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
wasnt wolverine's adamantium always primary adamantium regardless of era ? (unlike say, ultron who started out with fake (secondary) adamantium & then upgraded to the real deal)

but was this ever stated?? (when?)

but isnt adamantium is also earth man made stuff?

It has been stated many times that Cain only has a fraction of Cyttorak's power.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
It has been stated many times that Cain only has a fraction of Cyttorak's power. iirc in the most recent xmen legacy he stated he was drawing on cyttoraks full power.

Originally posted by Nihilist
iirc in the most recent xmen legacy he stated he was drawing on cyttoraks full power.

In his dream, which was manipulated by Xavier?

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
In his dream, which was manipulated by Xavier? yeah,but imo it didnt really clarify,what cain said was manipulated of just the events.i.e what cain said actualy came from his own mind

Originally posted by Nihilist
yeah,but imo it didnt really clarify,what cain said was manipulated of just the events.i.e what cain said actualy came from his own mind

Why don't you wait until we see him use that supposed power?

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Why don't you wait until we see him use that supposed power? why dont you shut up.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
If you take things literally like that you could easily say any object floating off the ground could stop Juggernaut because it's not on Earth. Which means the "Doctor-Alvis' Five Finger Knuckle Expressway Flying Offroad Single Suspender One Handed Superman Punch" would send him to the friggin' moon.

I have to call it before I strike, like a Falcon punch, so I've only landed it once. And that's how the dinosaurs went extinct.

laughing

That's been the highlight of an otherwise shitty day.

Juggernaut has limited access to Cytorrak's power. He can increase his strength by great deal, but I don't think it would be enough to significantly damage the adamantium wall. At best, I think he'd be able to move it.

Originally posted by Nihilist
why dont you shut up.

really no need for that...

Originally posted by Nihilist
why dont you shut up. best rebuttle of the day
lol

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
laughing

That's been the highlight of an otherwise shitty day.

Juggernaut has limited access to Cytorrak's power. He can increase his strength by great deal, but I don't think it would be enough to significantly damage the adamantium wall. At best, I think he'd be able to move it.

The TOAA is holding it mate.

Originally posted by Raoul
really no need for that... what a suprise

Breaks the wall.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Naw.

It happened and Thor set back time at the end of the reigning. yup yup
king thor goes back in time and undoes what he did so it becomes alternate reality
but at the "time" it happens its not yet alternate (duh)
(but when does it say the shield is stronger then adamantium? iirc this was never said only assumed )

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
The TOAA is holding it mate.

JuG3RnUt PwNz0rZZ TOAA!!!!!!!!1

Heh... Sorry. I must've overlooked that stipulation. If that's the case, Juggernaut does not move the wall.

Originally posted by Nihilist
why dont you shut up.

Supposedly indestructible items are not normally destroyed by physical force unless they suffer molecular damage of some sort first...

Like caps shield... Or wolvies adamantium.... Even mjolnir has been sliced in half.

However juggernaut is no wizard. He uses cytorraks power fir his own strngth and durability buy he has ne'er cast a spell like dr strange. Crimson bands of cytorrak anyone?...

Juggs is not affecting the adamantium on a molecular level.... And tapping into the full power of juggernaut would pobably be trion eight day juggernaut who broke through dimensions with his power...

And juggs being buried fir 14 years was his introduction to the xmen...

Originally posted by rotiart

However juggernaut is no wizard. He uses cytorraks power fir his own strngth and durability buy he has ne'er cast a spell like dr strange. Crimson bands of cytorrak anyone?...

Are you sure about that?

Pretty sure. The only display I can think if that isn't brickish was when he shared his power with black tom.... But that isn't affect something on the molecular level.

He has used magic before.

Originally posted by Nihilist
iirc in the most recent xmen legacy he stated he was drawing on cyttoraks full power.

It just said he was back to full power i.e. classic levels. It never stated he's tapping into Cyttoraks full power. If he was he'd be beyond Trion Juggernaut levels.

Originally posted by Mindset
He has used magic before.

Can you give me one example where he did anything on a molecular level? Create/transmute something? Energy blast even?

He shot an energy orbs at the X-men and I believe he shrunk someone.

I guess if these are recent I can't really argue. Not sure what issues your talking about though

Originally posted by rotiart
Can you give me one example where he did anything on a molecular level? Create/transmute something? Energy blast even?

Dr. Strange #182:

Juggernaut shrinks Nightmare:

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/6643/drstrange18213ba8.th.jpg

Juggernaut shoots some sort of energy blast at Nightmare:

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/8052/drstrange1821415xl1.th.jpg

Juggernaut no longer possesses the ability to cast spells. He traded them to Oblivion for passage out of the Void.

Post the energy orb one, it was funny.

They aren't recent. It's probably been like 20-30 years since he's use them and they weren't really noteworthy other than it being the only time Juggernaut didn't punch something.

Isn't that considered classic juggernaut though? Are we dealing with juggernaut with spells or current and If current, does he have spells because I don't remember seeing anything recent.

Btw awesome scans. So I guess that jugs could probably just shrink the wall

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
They aren't recent. It's probably been like 20-30 years since he's use them and they weren't really noteworthy other than it being the only time Juggernaut didn't punch something. Shut up

Originally posted by Mindset
Shut up
Paint my fence.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
They aren't recent. It's probably been like 20-30 years since he's use them and they weren't really noteworthy other than it being the only time Juggernaut didn't punch something.


Yeah well I guess it's my fault for asking for any scans and and not just scans of current juggs feats my bad.uh

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
Paint my fence. Pet my monkey.

Originally posted by Mindset
Post the energy orb one, it was funny.

As requested. From UXM #46:

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/6664/fireig3.th.jpg

Wanted to throw this one in there. Juggernaut showing the ability to absorb someones energy blast and throw it back at them. From UXM #102:

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/2033/feat24zw3.th.jpg

I like how they shoot out of him. It's like he doesn't even know it's happening.

I wonder know much money an adamantium wall sells for I. The black market. That much of the metal.... I'd be rich!!

IMO Juggernaut would probably bend the wall or break through it, whatever the path of least resistance was depending on exactly how the setup was constructed.

We've seen true adamantium slightly dented at least once (e.g. in its very first appearance, by Thor's hammer). We've seen non-magical forces bend it or wreck its molecular structure (magnetism, arctic vibranium, whatever Molecule Man uses - psionics?). We've also seen magic-boosted physical force bend harder substances like Cap's shield. And we've seen other supposedly harder substances than adamantium created (although they might not be in canon).

And anyway if they basically admit the existence of an even more indestructible substance like Cap's shield, then doesn't this indicate that adamantium already has a limit to its indestructibility i.e. it's not a known limit but whatever it is it's less than Cap's shield?

All this just makes me think that while adamantium may seem indestructible, it still has some sort of physical limit. I don't believe that someone like a well-fed Galactus could not summon enough physical force to bend adamantium with a punch. I think Juggernaut's magic would eventually overcome its molecular structure even if it took a very long time. My opinion anyway.

hang on, we've seen Juggernaut stopped, but we've yet to see "primary" adamantium broken.

the only time I recall anything breaking Adamantium is a comment from Future Imperfect, where the "dogs of war" are said to be capable of crushing Adamantium in 3 seconds or something.

as it stands, the wall wins, every time, imo

Originally posted by janus77
hang on, we've seen Juggernaut stopped, but we've yet to see "primary" adamantium broken.


We've seen it physically dented and deformed though, even if you don't count the applications of magnetism, arctic vibranium, MM etc.

Originally posted by janus77
the only time I recall anything breaking Adamantium is a comment from Future Imperfect, where the "dogs of war" are said to be capable of crushing Adamantium in 3 seconds or something.

I remember that but I would leave it to the forum experts to tell me if it is canon or even a proven feat. In Guardians of the Galaxy they also stated that in the future they invented harder substances and one was shown to cut adamantium. Again I don't know if people consider that canon.

Still, the fact that Cap's in-canon shield is even harder than adamantium pretty much means that adamantium isn't really without physical limits.

Originally posted by janus77
as it stands, the wall wins, every time, imo
Fair enough. But I'm going to stick with my opinion for now, since this is one battle I doubt we will see anytime soon.

So, the only time juggs was "stopped" was by mystical means in the War Hulk issue and with Thor's Godblast which again didn't even phase him just stopped him. Yet again mystical force going against juggs own mystical unstoppable force. So, what mystical properties does a Adamantium Wall have that compares to these two instances. As stated AD has been dented and manipulated which is very comparable to the examples being used against juggs

there was nothing "mystical" about the fight with War Hulk. Apoc states that the Celestial Tech just harnesses and stabilises the energies that Hulk has. at the time Hulk was actually not capable of controlling his energies as he normally does (because of the whole split from Banner thing, iirc).

Celestial tech is celestial tech. It can do just about anything.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
Celestial tech is celestial tech. It can do just about anything.

Exactly it can be mystical in nature.

Juggy eventually breaks the wall. The occasions that juggernaut was contained by physical means was wehn he was fully encased (mountain , tricked into cement by spiderman) and not being able to exert strength or momentum. If juggernaut run or walks towards a adamantium was he eventually bends or breaks it .

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Exactly it can be mystical in nature.
It's not mystical, it's just that advanced.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
Celestial tech is celestial tech. It can do just about anything.
when it's stated to be doing something, it's a good bet that it is doing that thing.

the tech harnessed Hulk's energies... the idea was to use the Hulk (eventually) to challenge The Celestials (as Apocalypse learned that Hulk possessed power that might be a significant obstacle to The Celestials).

bump ^__^

ok forgot to add in 1st post : this is CLASSIC Jug


also he cant move the wall (lets say hes running on true adamantium ground so that ground+wall are 1)

Originally posted by The Pict
He moves the wall, uproots it from the ground it was on and continues moving. But he doesn't break it.

Originally posted by SoulDevourer

ground+wall are 1 ^

(cant edit 1st post )

^ if juggernaut can increase his traction with the floor, the wall is going down. if not it might be a stalemate, but juggernaut's never going to tire, maybe just get bored.

The point is that Juggernaut will not brake the wall. He will never be able to

Well, Hulk has broken a needle of adamantium, and crumpled a large labaratory of nothing but adamantium into a ball.

I think given enough time, he might get through it.

Originally posted by KingD19
Well, Hulk has broken a needle of adamantium, and crumpled a large labaratory of nothing but adamantium into a ball.

I think given enough time, he might get through it. That was the Ultimate universe

Originally posted by KingD19
Well, Hulk has broken a needle of adamantium, and crumpled a large labaratory of nothing but adamantium into a ball. #1 was only a needle and #2 what he crumple was only secondary adamantium iirc

Originally posted by xJLxKing
The point is that Juggernaut will not brake the wall. He will never be able to so even classic juggernauts not unstoppable?

TS did not specify how thick the wall is.

If it's about a mile thick, no way in hell will Juggernaut break it.

No one under Celestial-level would break a mile-thick adamantium wall.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
TS did not specify how thick the wall is.

If it's about a mile thick, no way in hell will Juggernaut break it.

No one under Celestial-level would break a mile-thick adamantium wall. ok =>

the wall is 1 foot thick

(consider that as an edit of my 1st post )

Assuming he charges at Rhino or Hammerhead's speed, he bends it.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
As requested. From UXM #46:

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/6664/fireig3.th.jpg

Wanted to throw this one in there. Juggernaut showing the ability to absorb someones energy blast and throw it back at them. From UXM #102:

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/2033/feat24zw3.th.jpg
at anyone thinking that juggernaut is a brick.

He'd most likely uproot the wall and take it with him.

The wall won't stop him. Whatever weakeness the wall has will be exploited long before Juggernaut gets stopped.

The wall will stop juggernaut.. one foot thick!!!!, imagine, if characters like Thor hulk and colossus are having problems breaking 1/2 an inch thick of adamantium..(ultron).. imagine the force he will need to break a foot thick!!!..noway. mystical or physical.. adamantium ignores all laws except certain magnetic waves, vibranium and a molecular re-arranger.
Even if he does pass through the wall, he will not actually break the adamantium wall.. only push the wall down.. meaning the parts that connects the adamantium to ordinary wall breaks..

Didnt Classic juggs lose all his no physical abilities quite some time ago?

Originally posted by Priest
at anyone thinking that juggernaut is a brick.





must remember these things when I make a thread with "Classic Juggs" how often did he use that? Was it PIS that gave him powers or was he just whipping stuff out of his butt like old supes?

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
He'd most likely uproot the wall and take it with him. I said the wall and the ground are both primary adamantium and so the wall is "part of" the ground. so if he uproots the wall hes still breaking the adamantium

I wanted to add this in 1st post but **** stupid kmc feature I cant edit my 1st post no more



Originally posted by wolverex84
The wall will stop juggernaut.. one foot thick!!!!, imagine, if characters like Thor hulk and colossus are having problems breaking 1/2 an inch thick of adamantium..(ultron).. imagine the force he will need to break a foot thick!!!..noway. mystical or physical.. adamantium ignores all laws except certain magnetic waves, vibranium and a molecular re-arranger.
Even if he does pass through the wall, he will not actually break the adamantium wall.. only push the wall down.. meaning the parts that connects the adamantium to ordinary wall breaks.. ok so then your saying classic jug is NOT unstoppable then?


for example can Cytorak himself be imprison by adamantium shell?

Originally posted by Naija boy
Didnt Classic juggs lose all his no physical abilities quite some time ago?

No.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
No.
He didnt? Cuz it seems he did from this statement

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/th_Juggernautloseshisnonphysicalabilit.jpg

Note here how he talks about the ruby being the source of his muscle and then talks about the loss of his mystical abilities. clearly here he is talking about the loss of all abilities that are not related to his "muscle" or in other words all non physical abilities.

If you're talking about his FF? He still has it.

If you're talking about his ability to cast spells, then yes, he lost those abilities.

OK so then your saying classic jug is NOT unstoppable then?


for example can Cytorak himself be imprison by adamantium shell?

yes he is not unstoppable, physically he is, but mystically or abstractly he is not.. he is a living force of will, the wall will stop him physically.. but it won't stop his will.. that is why when all his flesh was ripped off from him he was still able to move.. so in a way he will pass through it in that form.. probably by using the cyttorak but he is not breaking solid one fook thick adamantium.. its just too hard and too dense..

Adamantium is destructible by extreme physically force.. everything is... same is true for juggernaut.. he can be stopped and damaged..even hulk eventually has a limit.. the problem is there is nothing available to stop him by conventional means because the force required to stop him is not greater than the physically/mystical force that moves him.

i am not really sure if cyttorak is imprisoned by the adamantium shell he can break out of it with just strength alone.. he will just teleport or use other magical means. there are some things that are almost beyond physical force and require other means to manipulate..

I doubt it would stop his forward movement. Whatever weakness the wall has would be exploited eventually.

what are true adamantiums weakneses?


Originally posted by wolverex84
Adamantium is destructible by extreme physically force.. everything is... same is true for juggernaut.. he can be stopped and damaged..even hulk eventually has a limit.. the problem is there is nothing available to stop him by conventional means because the force required to stop him is not greater than the physically/mystical force that moves him. well thats the thing adamantium IS conventional (its alloy of iron & stuff)

Originally posted by wolverex84

i am not really sure if cyttorak is imprisoned by the adamantium shell he can break out of it with just strength alone.. he will just teleport or use other magical means. there are some things that are almost beyond physical force and require other means to manipulate.. so cyttorak cant amp his strenght to high enough level? (like Thanos did with caps shield)

Whatever weakness it has has yet to be determined. Juggernaut has never been stopped physically like this so I don't see how the wall can do it.

Hulk stopped him once but I dont remember if this was classic Jug or Jug without gem

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
so cyttorak cant amp his strenght to high enough level? (like Thanos did with caps shield)



Thanos had IG then.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW


Thanos had IG then. yeah but everyones saying cyttorak supposed to be ominpotent so either their right or cyttoraks overated

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
what are true adamantiums weakneses?


well thats the thing adamantium IS conventional (its alloy of iron & stuff)

so cyttorak cant amp his strenght to high enough level? (like Thanos did with caps shield)

no adamantium is not.. just because it is made from convention means doesnt make it conventional, it is above conventional that is why nothing can destroy it..only manipulate it... you said "iron+stuff"..lol.. the stuff is the unknown formula X that makes it unconventional.. if it was conventional than almost any class 100 character should be able to break it..

yes he can amp his strength to that level.. but caps shield is half an inch THICK..LOL.. vibranuim+iron+ unknow formula..., the wall we are talking about is a foot thick.. extremely hard and extremely dense.. it should even weigh more than 2000lbs..if it is that thick..

wolverine's skeleton is less than 1/2 an inch thick, yet it added 105lbs to his weight. how dense is that?

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Whatever weakness it has has yet to be determined. Juggernaut has never been stopped physically like this so I don't see how the wall can do it. What about the mountain

What mountain?

Originally posted by Mindset
What mountain?
i think he is talking about the mountain that collapsed on him when he gain his powers

Originally posted by wolverex84
no adamantium is not.. just because it is made from convention means doesnt make it conventionalso they add enchantment to it? what kinda magic?
iirc theres nothing mystical about it but maybe I missed an ep

doesnt sound THAT dense (whats volume of his skeleton?)
at least its nowhere near neutronium level

Originally posted by wolverex84
i think he is talking about the mountain that collapsed on him when he gain his powers jug needs momentum so he need some space before he become unstoppable (if he cant move then he cant start to run )

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
so they add enchantment to it? what kinda magic?
iirc theres nothing mystical about it

at least its not neutronium level (where 1 inch cube weighs more then a planet )

the formula are unknown only to the government that has it, we know that it is derived from mixtures of iron/stuff mixed together, it is not mystical..or enhanced.. its nature is pure science.. what makes it so special is the extremely stable inter molecular structure that holds the bonds of the atom of adamantium together.. giving it its properties like...density, hardness, toughness.. stiffness and virtually indestructible..this debate is magic vs science..

yeah neutonium is ridiculously dense..lol

Originally posted by wolverex84
its nature is pure science.. so it is conventional! maybe more complex & all that but still conventional ('not conventional' => 'mystical')

btw I edited my post (about wolvies skeleton)

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
jug needs momentum so he need some space before he become unstoppable (if he cant move then he cant start to run )

true..true

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
so it is conventional! maybe more complex & all that but still conventional ('not conventional' => 'mystical')

btw I edited my post (about wolvies skeleton)

Near-Unbreakable Flesh: Since Cage's skin cannot be lacerated by conventional materials, his superhuman durability is a hindurance if he suffers injuries that are too severe for him to heal on his own and require surgery, such as internal injuries. While his skin can be lacerated by a highly powerful medical laser and weapons composed of Adamantium, neither of these would be readily available or easily accessible.

this proves that it is not conventional.. because it is not ordinary by normal standards..

Originally posted by wolverex84
Near-Unbreakable Flesh: Since Cage's skin cannot be lacerated by conventional materials, his superhuman durability is a hindurance if he suffers injuries that are too severe for him to heal on his own and require surgery, such as internal injuries. While his skin can be lacerated by a highly powerful medical laser and weapons composed of Adamantium, neither of these would be readily available or easily accessible.

this proves that it is not conventional.. because it is not ordinary by normal standards.. "RL normal standards" is not "marvel comics normal standards"


btw since when is durability hindrance for healing factor? for example Hulk skin get harder the more he gets angrier, but he also heals faster

Superman also heals super fast yet hes stated to be harder then adamantium (secondary adamantium at least)

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
"RL normal standards" is not "marvel comics normal standards"


btw since when is durability hindrance for healing factor? for example Hulk skin get harder the more he gets angrier, but he also heals faster

Superman also heals super fast yet hes stated to be harder then adamantium (secondary adamantium at least)

if it is not then why will marvel say it is not "normal standards"
where did you hear that superman was harder than secondary adamantium.? i know he field is harder than diamond..

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
"RL normal standards" is not "marvel comics normal standards"


btw since when is durability hindrance for healing factor? for example Hulk skin get harder the more he gets angrier, but he also heals faster
)
well hulk's skin gets extremely tougher..and alittle bit harder.. so it doesn't hinder his healing.. but for luke cage.. his skin is hard so it will be hard for him to heal if his healing factor can't help him without surgery because before they can operate on him.. they need to get past his flesh..so in order word.. it hinders his healing..

Originally posted by wolverex84
if it is not then why will marvel say it is not "normal standards"maybe wherever they said "normal standard" (if they did say it) they mean only "earth standards"

hey theres different definitions for "conventional" for example in RL some ppl call nukes "non conventional" weapons
Supe was protecting a guy against some kinda beam weapon and the guy said the beam was strong enough to cut adamantium (Supe wasnt even affected by it)

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
maybe wherever they said "normal standard" (if they did say it) they mean only "earth standards"

hey theres different definitions for "conventional" for example in RL some ppl call nukes "non conventional" weapons
Supe was protecting a guy against some kinda beam weapon and the guy said the beam was strong enough to cut adamantium (Supe wasnt even affected by it)

well right.. , yet adamantium can take point-blank mutiple nukes with no damage.

but that doesn't mean he is harder than secondary adamantium.. his force fields has light/electrical constructs that can deflect laser beams.. it can take high temps.. it is extemely hard.. but i am not sure if it is as hard as secondary adamantium.

men we are totally off topic..lol

Originally posted by wolverex84
well right.. , yet adamantium can take point-blank mutiple nukes with no damage.

but that doesn't mean he is harder than secondary adamantium.. his force fields has light/electrical constructs that can deflect laser beams.. it can take high temps.. it is extemely hard.. but i am not sure if it is as hard as secondary adamantium. hey his "bio forcefield" made him resist a beam that the guy said could cut thru adamantium so that means hes at least more resistent then secondary adamantium not sure about primary, tho (was it stated on panel how much weaker is secondary adamantium compared to primary? is it a lot weaker or just a bit weaker?)

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
hey his "bio forcefield" made him resist a beam that the guy said could cut thru adamantium so that means hes at least more resistent then secondary adamantium not sure about primary, tho (was it stated on panel how much weaker is secondary adamantium compared to primary? is it a lot weaker or just a bit weaker?)

Because True Adamantium is exceptionally difficult and expensive to create, various researchers found a more cost-effective way to duplicate it, at the expense of qquality and durability . This alternate version, referred to as Secondary Adamantium is considerably stronger than even Titanium and is resistant against most assaults. However, assaults from sufficiently powerful weapons or beings(superman) can warp or break it.

so yeah it is a lot weaker than primary adamantium

Originally posted by wolverex84
However, assaults from sufficiently powerful weapons or beings(superman) can warp or break it.

so yeah it is a lot weaker than primary adamantium doesnt mean its a lot weaker (I say that cause iirc marvel site says its "somewhat weaker" but some other sources say its "a lot weaker" so maybe its never stated clear on panel)

btw Hulk has cause (minor) damage to primary adamantium with only his fists! (he made a crack in it and he didnt look that pissed either)

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
doesnt mean its a lot weaker (I say that cause iirc marvel site says its "somewhat weaker" but some other sources say its "a lot weaker" so maybe its never stated clear on panel)

btw Hulk has cause (minor) damage to primary adamantium with only his fists! (he made a crack in it and he didnt look that pissed either)

didn't they leter claim than it was secondary adamantium.. not primary..

at the expense of quality and durability mean it is enough to show that it is alot weaker than primary adamantium..

Originally posted by wolverex84
didn't they leter claim than it was secondary adamantium.. not primary.. NOPE!
secondary adamantium was the Ultron version where Wonder Man crushed his skull with his bear hands
the version Hulk was fighting was true adamantium armor (but it was only a small crack)

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
If you're talking about his FF? He still has it.

If you're talking about his ability to cast spells, then yes, he lost those abilities.

I know about the FF, i was talking of all those other weird abilities he used to have.

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
NOPE!
secondary adamantium was the Ultron version where Wonder Man crushed his skull with his bear hands
the version Hulk was fighting was true adamantium armor (but it was only a small crack)

he only slightly dented it.. not sure he cracked it, so why can't he just crack or dent wolverine skull if he can crack the adamantium you said he cracked?

Originally posted by wolverex84

he only slightly dented it.. not sure he cracked it, so why can't he just crack or dent wolverine skull if he can crack the adamantium you said he cracked? no no he cracked it (small crack enough for that bee chick to slip inside and **** up Ultrons circuits thats how they defeated it)

maybe he wasnt strong enough when he tried against wolverine (theres this comic where he rips wolverine in half but not sure if its cannon)

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
no no he cracked it (small crack enough for that bee chick to slip inside and **** up Ultrons circuits thats how they defeated it)

maybe he wasnt strong enough when he tried against wolverine (theres this comic where he rips wolverine in half but not sure if its cannon)

that was the ultimate universe.. his joints are not connected with adamantium in that universe..

Yeah, Wasp said he dented it enough for her to slip inside.

He cracked his joints, which are slightly weaker than limbs and main parts.

And the ripping in half was canon in Ultimate only, and Ultimate Colossus ripped Logans leg off.

And pure adamantium at full strength can't be broken in 616, which is why Hulk beat Logan hard enough to make his brain bounce around in his skull, knocking him unconscious.

now do u agree juggernaut can't pass through the adamantium wall?

if adamantium wall can stop him then that means theres other non-magic things that can stop him too? (like super strong forcefield?)

Who are you asking? Because in my opinion, he uproot the wall if the floor wasn't adamantium as well, but since it is, I think he won't stop pushing till he actually shakes the foundations, but he won't get through the wall.

There's been nothing shown that can stop him, not even Thor's full power god blast could stop him, it slowed him down to almost not moving until the floor collapsed. And Hulk almost held him still, but he was still moving very slowly.

Originally posted by KingD19

There's been nothing shown that can stop him, not even Thor's full power god blast could stop him, it slowed him down to almost not moving until the floor collapsed. And Hulk almost held him still, but he was still moving very slowly. then until something shown to really stop him we HAVE to assume nothing can completely stop him hmm

Originally posted by KingD19
Who are you asking? Because in my opinion, he uproot the wall if the floor wasn't adamantium as well, but since it is, I think he won't stop pushing till he actually shakes the foundations, but he won't get through the wall.

well we are talking about if juggernaut was contained in a cube or wall full of 12 inche/ 1 foot thick primary adamantium.. will he be able to run through or get past it?

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
if adamantium wall can stop him then that means maybe theres other non-magic things that can stop him too (like super strong forcefield?)

good question.. i think a very strong forcefield like galactus or highly powerful beings should be able to hold him for a while yet again i might be wrong because forcefields can be brittle.. what about the quantum bands?

Originally posted by wolverex84
good question.. i think a very strong forcefield like galactus or highly powerful beings should be able to hold him for a while yet again i might be wrong because forcefields can be brittle.. what about the quantum bands? what about invisible womans forcefield?

better yet : Cains own forcefield? (if some1 copies his forcefield and puts in in Cains way)

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
what about invisible womans forcefield?

better yet : Cains own forcefield? (if some1 copies his forcefield and puts in in Cains way)

he will run through invisible women's force field like it wasn't there..lol..

yes this might work.. only if the force field is thicker than what surrounds him..

Originally posted by wolverex84
he will run through invisible women's force field like it wasn't there..lol..

yes this might work.. only if the force field is thicker than what surrounds him.. no just normal cain forcefield same thickness as what cain has. its suppose to be impenetrable

btw think of the huge amount of energy they need to make primary adamantium : if they use all that energy to power a standard forcefield then logicaly it should be enough

oh and invisible woman forcefield is no joke (who has broken thru it on panel so far??)

The amount of energy needed to make adamtium isent that much. It so durable due to chemical changes in the metals when they harden

its so expensive to make it cause it needs insane amount of energy thats why they invented secondary adamantium!

Not really, it simply becuases the metals used are extremely rare and need high level of heat and it complex. But the energy used isent that vast that a force field using the same power would stand next to juggernaut for any real length of time.