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Exotic powers are banned, it's a pure h2h bout.

1.Wolverine

2.Gamora

3.Champion

4.Silver Sufer

5.Thor

She will be healed completly upon defeating a opponent, how does this go.

She not beating Surfer.

Stopped by Gamora. It'd be a good fight, though.

Define exotic.

I she going to fight Surfer pure H2H ?
Without Surfer using any of his powers?

Then she would beat down Surfer

As powerful as SS is he is a piss poor h2h fighter

Thor might be the only one here that can take her

If she can't speed blitz, she stop at Gamora.

Originally posted by I-Drop
Define exotic.

Her greatest challenge lies at 2

She either stops at 2, or clears. I'm inclined to think she clears, though.

She will remain with her stats, but exotic powers would include amping/flight/projectiles/matter manip and such.

gamora and wonder woman would be one of the best fights on the forum. Lets not forget gamora has super speed also, she did blitz ronan and she's the best fighter in the universe.

Does she really have speed blitz, havn't ever seen her do it. I was also debating if I should have put morg in SS place since Morg has actual credible h2h.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Does she really have speed blitz, havn't ever seen her do it. I was also debating if I should have put morg in SS place since Morg has actual credible h2h.

Yes, she has super speed. She took out an entire military in less then 2 panels that also included tanks.

Stops at surfer. Surfer's default speed and durability are both higher than WW's- though I'd put his H2H skill as less, and strength as roughly equivalent.

keep in mind also that if we put him on his board during this fight, the board has a completely separate power supply. He'll be able to move/maneuver indefinitely without wearing down. Or to put it another way, the energy expended moving/dodging does not take away from the energy used to attack.

WW doesn't have this advantage. Keeping up with surfer's speed is going to wear her down considerably, giving him the advantage.

dies at Surfer.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Stops at surfer. Surfer's default speed and durability are both higher than WW's- though I'd put his H2H skill as less, and strength as roughly equivalent.

keep in mind also that if we put him on his board during this fight, the board has a completely separate power supply. He'll be able to move/maneuver indefinitely without wearing down. Or to put it another way, the energy expended moving/dodging does not take away from the energy used to attack.

WW doesn't have this advantage. Keeping up with surfer's speed is going to wear her down considerably, giving him the advantage.

SS doesn't have his board, just stats.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Does she really have speed blitz, havn't ever seen her do it. I was also debating if I should have put morg in SS place since Morg has actual credible h2h.
Every since it was stated that she is faster than Superman in a fight you been disrespecting her. Should I pull up all the times you said before that she can fight DBZ style?

He was talking about Gamora and I think she clears it.

Originally posted by iceman24567
He was talking about Gamora and I think she clears it.
Oh. What ever. I'm pissed at him for messing up my WW respect thread. And yes Gamora Blitzed Thanos.

Well Thanos is overated anyways

Originally posted by iceman24567
Well Thanos is overated anyways
Waaaay.

If by overrated you mean being able to stomp WW and Supes you would be correct

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
If by overrated you mean being able to stomp WW and Supes you would be correct When you show me Thanos Stomping Thor and Gladiator at the same time, You may have a point.

Originally posted by fangirl101
When you show me Thanos Stomping Thor and Gladiator at the same time, You may have a point.
well he would stomp them one on one

Nah by overated I mean he isn't beating Odin ever thats what I mean or even the Wizard Shazam for that matter indeed overated.

Originally posted by jalek moye
well he would stomp them one on one
Laughable. He couldn't even stomp Gamora. He'd beat them One on One. Stomp is silly. Since He couldn't eve Stomp Thor.

Originally posted by fangirl101
When you show me Thanos Stomping Thor and Gladiator at the same time, You may have a point.

You comparing Thor with WW now lol please. Thor would smash WW as well. Gladiator and Supes are closer with Supes having the edge imo. Thanos has taken on Thor, Hulk, Herc, Quasar, Thing and mulitple heroes at the same time. That is no issue.

As far as Odin goes nobody really knows how that battle would play out now. Thanos has been upgraded and is i would say mid skyfather level to high while Odin is the highest. So, Thanos would do better then last time with his upgrade and he held his own last time with Odin out for the kill. I still could see Odin winning and have no issue with that for the majority but make no mistake Thanos would do better as he's been upgraded.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Oh. What ever. I'm pissed at him for messing up my WW respect thread. And yes Gamora Blitzed Thanos.

I didn't ruin anything, I was simply correcting you.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
I didn't ruin anything, I was simply correcting you.
You didn't correct anything. Your opinion is just that.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You comparing Thor with WW now lol please. Thor would smash WW as well. Gladiator and Supes are closer with Supes having the edge imo. Thanos has taken on Thor, Hulk, Herc, Quasar, Thing and mulitple heroes at the same time. That is no issue.

As far as Odin goes nobody really knows how that battle would play out now. Thanos has been upgraded and is i would say mid skyfather level to high while Odin is the highest. So, Thanos would do better then last time with his upgrade and he held his own last time with Odin out for the kill. I still could see Odin winning and have no issue with that for the majority but make no mistake Thanos would do better as he's been upgraded.
Please. Wondy is just as strong as Thor. Far faster. So what makes you think Thor would smash her? That's so silly. Thor has problems with speedsters. Let alone Someone of WW's strength lvl. You obviously haven't picked up a WW book. And Thanos hasn't taken on multiple heroes on his own. Stop with that right now. Post it or be cool on forum lies.

Originally posted by fangirl101
You didn't correct anything. Your opinion is just that.

You were using a scan so out of character and invalidated by consistent feats from both characters.....at the very least u could have just said it as a"opinion"instead of trying to pass it off as a legitimate feat.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
You were using a scan so out of character and invalidated by consistent feats from both characters.....at the very least u could have just said it as a"opinion"instead of trying to pass it off as a legitimate feat.
Um. Please. Wondy has far more feats of her battle time being superior to Superman's. She is faster than he is in combat because she has to be. She isn't as durable as he is so she has to make up for it with reaction time. Pwned.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Please. Wondy is just as strong as Thor. Far faster. So what makes you think Thor would smash her? That's so silly. Thor has problems with speedsters. Let alone Someone of WW's strength lvl. You obviously haven't picked up a WW book. And Thanos hasn't taken on multiple heroes on his own. Stop with that right now. Post it or be cool on forum lies.

Only problem is Thor is much stronger then WW where do you get just as strong? Most everybody would agree Thor is stronger then WW so please show proof of WW being stronger. MA skill is very close but I could give WW the edge. Durability goes to Thor imo while speed goes to WW. Imo Thor wins that fight 8/10.

Yup overated but back on topic.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Only problem is Thor is much stronger then WW where do you get just as strong? Most everybody would agree Thor is stronger then WW so please show proof of WW being stronger. MA skill is very close but I could give WW the edge. Durability goes to Thor imo while speed goes to WW. Imo Thor wins that fight 8/10.
nah thor and wonderwoman have equal strength. what makes u think he is stronger

Originally posted by fangirl101
Um. Please. Wondy has far more feats of her battle time being superior to Superman's. She is faster than he is in combat because she has to be. She isn't as durable as he is so she has to make up for it with reaction time. Pwned.

....nope she doesn't. Every supporting on-panel feat doesn't support it dude....but hey she's comparable at least.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Only problem is Thor is much stronger then WW where do you get just as strong? Most everybody would agree Thor is stronger then WW so please show proof of WW being stronger. MA skill is very close but I could give WW the edge. Durability goes to Thor imo while speed goes to WW. Imo Thor wins that fight 8/10.
LMAO. Thor got knocked on his ass by Superman. Wondy has NEVER went down to Superman that fast. She's definitely at least as Strong as Thor. Picked up any Wondy books lately?

Originally posted by fangirl101
LMAO. Thor got knocked on his ass by Superman. Wondy has NEVER went down to Superman that fast. She's definitely at least as Strong as Thor. Picked up any Wondy books lately?

tell me u arnt seriously using that as evidence. We all know that thor woud put up a really good fight agains supes, as long as he has mjolnir

You guys need to be a little more jolly its the bloody holidays.

Originally posted by jalek moye
tell me u arnt seriously using that as evidence. We all know that thor woud put up a really good fight agains supes, as long as he has mjolnir
I never said Thor wouldn't beat Wondy or Superman. But seriously, He's not Stronger than Wondy. just using their fights with the same person as comparison.

i know that. they hav equal strength, shes faster and he's more durable. she has one of the best defensive tools, and he has one of the best offensive weapons

Originally posted by fangirl101
LMAO. Thor got knocked on his ass by Superman. Wondy has NEVER went down to Superman that fast. She's definitely at least as Strong as Thor. Picked up any Wondy books lately?

Thor should be stronger- In the superman fight Superman stated Thor was the strongest foe he'd EVER fought, and that would include wonderwoman...wouldn't it?

Thor also has the ability to temporarily enter warrior madness, which amplifies his strength x10.

a warrior madness thor would almost certainly outclass WW.

Note also that *with mjolnir* thor is able to swing and hit at multiples of lightspeed, so WW may not have a speed advantage here. Thor's durability is likely a lot higher, as well- I'd give him the edge in pure H2H.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Thor should be stronger- In the superman fight Superman stated Thor was the strongest foe he'd EVER fought, and that would include wonderwoman...wouldn't it?

Thor also has the ability to temporarily enter warrior madness, which amplifies his strength x10.

a warrior madness thor would almost certainly outclass WW.

Note also that *with mjolnir* thor is able to swing and hit at multiples of lightspeed, so WW may not have a speed advantage here. Thor's durability is likely a lot higher, as well- I'd give him the edge in pure H2H. You don't read WW do you. I HATE when someone gives an opinion without knowing the facts. Superman said that Thor MAY be. not that he was. please. Reread JLA Avengers. And Wondy has blocked projectiles faster than Thor can throw his hammer. And it's not just about how fast he can throw. She can out maneuver him. Thor doesn't just enter WM. and Her lasso PWNS his warrior madness. It would instantly calm him down. I don't think Thor's durability is a lot higher. He's been knocked out by a bullet under the skin. And In pure h2h, she WTF pwns him. No top tier brick can beat Diana in hand to hand alone.

Originally posted by fangirl101
You don't read WW do you. I HATE when someone gives an opinion without knowing the facts. Superman said that Thor MAY be. not that he was. please. Reread JLA Avengers. And Wondy has blocked projectiles faster than Thor can throw his hammer. And it's not just about how fast he can throw. She can out maneuver him. Thor doesn't just enter WM. and Her lasso PWNS his warrior madness. It would instantly calm him down. I don't think Thor's durability is a lot higher. He's been knocked out by a bullet under the skin. And In pure h2h, she WTF pwns him. No top tier brick can beat Diana in hand to hand alone.

i agree with you, but thor is not a brick

Originally posted by jalek moye
i agree with you, but thor is not a brick
In hand to hand he is. He doesn't have Superspeed or any other physical attributes outside of his strength and durability that make him not a brick. It's only when you add in his hammer and magic that he becomes more than a brick. But, by definition, h2h means they are all just using physical attributes. Bricks.

Originally posted by fangirl101
And Wondy has blocked projectiles faster than Thor can throw his hammer. And it's not just about how fast he can throw.

I didn't say just "throw." I said swing and HIT. There are scans in the respect thread of thor SWINGING the hammer at 2x lightspeed. not throwing it. Wonderwoman's reaction time is NOT in excess of lightspeed.

Has wonderwoman blocked projectiles? sure. Has she blocked projectiles going faster than lightspeed, backed by someone of Thor's level of strength? hell no, and it's silly to say so.



Heralds can't outmaneuver thor, Gods can't outmaneuver Thor. WITH THE HAMMER, Thor is a lot faster than you give him credit for.

And this is H2H. The hammer is an h2h weapon as thor uses it to hit with. Using the lasso to tie him up and cause him to quit is not. If you allow that use of the lasso, then all of mjolnir's powers are in play as well- this includes lightning, godforce, matter manipulation, and BFR. Mjolnir trumps the lasso any day of the week.



absolute BS. Thor is completely immune to nuclear weapons, can hang out in the sun, Stalemated Zeus for MONTHS without stopping and has taken direct shots from celestials without being KOed. Your "bullet" assertion is complete PIS, if it even exists, as there's a lot more scans of Thor being unaffected by bullets than the reverse.



Thor is a lot more than simply a brick, like the hulk. He has innate superspeed, that's greatly enhanced when he has the hammer. Thor's durability is clearly higher (unless you have scans of diana surviving shots from beings that own skyfathers, or walking in the sun with no damage) and his strength is on par if not higher. You can't even make the "she's more skilled" argument, since thor has been alive for millennia and led wars against other gods.

Advantage Thor.

Thor was hurting superman and even had him weary after he finally won. Show me WW hurting superman to the same affect. Thor is stronger then WW and has more durability. Speed goes to WW while MA is close with maybe WW having the edge. It's pretty cut and dry and Thor out classes WW the majority of the time. H2H only just makes it close and allows WW to take some.

dude the hammer is not allowed in h2h

The Durok hammer is biscuits

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Thor was hurting superman and even had him weary after he finally won. Show me WW hurting superman to the same affect. Thor is stronger then WW and has more durability. Speed goes to WW while MA is close with maybe WW having the edge. It's pretty cut and dry and Thor out classes WW the majority of the time. H2H only just makes it close and allows WW to take some.
mjolnir allows him to hit harder then her, but their strength feats are equal

There is a lot to be said about whats going on in this battle forum. Wonder woman combat speed is greater then sueprman, its a known fact.

Wonder woman is just as strong as thor even though thor would whip that ass if they got into a fight (it would be a great fight though but thor is just to damn versatile.).

I honestly would give the edge to wonder woman when it comes to who is the best fighter out of the two but I dont think that the gap is huge.

Thor is fast enough to hang with wonder woman in a fight but the thing to think about is that thor carries and walk around with a weapon that could one shot a planet with one strike; has wonder woman ever been hit with that kind of power.

Some people might disagree but I consider wonder woman and superman as equals and I give thor the edge over both because again he is to versatile and powerful.

People who is saying that wonder woman cant give surfer or thor a fight is on crack and know nothing of the character.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Thor was hurting superman and even had him weary after he finally won. Show me WW hurting superman to the same affect. Thor is stronger then WW and has more durability. Speed goes to WW while MA is close with maybe WW having the edge. It's pretty cut and dry and Thor out classes WW the majority of the time. H2H only just makes it close and allows WW to take some.

Stop using that fight when a comic wouldnt allow superman to lose even against odin. I'm surprise thor lasted as long as he did against superman.

Originally posted by fangirl101
And Thanos hasn't taken on multiple heroes on his own. Stop with that right now. Post it or be cool on forum lies.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Thanos_teampwn.jpg


...But for what its worth, I'll back you up: Thor wouldn't take down Diana easily. Very few people would. That includes Superman.

Originally posted by Enyalus
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/th_Thanos_teampwn.jpg


...But for what its worth, I'll back you up: Thor wouldn't take down Diana easily. Very few people would. That includes Superman.

There aren't a lot of heroes there that would even touch Superman in a fight.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
There aren't a lot of heroes there that would even touch Superman in a fight.

With CIS on, sure there are.

Wonder Woman's held her own against him before. If they're both going all out, I don't see him taking her down easily either.

That was my secondary point.

Originally posted by Enyalus
With CIS on, sure there are.

Wonder Woman's held her own against him before. If they're both going all out, I don't see him taking her down easily either.

That was my secondary point.

No, not even with CIS on.

Thanos is screaming for them to get off. In a situation where Superman did not want any of them to touch him, they would all be on the floor bleeding.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
No, not even with CIS on.

Thanos is screaming for them to get off. In a situation where Superman did not want any of them to touch him, they would all be on the floor bleeding.

Not all but I agree SOME. Iron man has great combat speed and has actually did things in nanoseconds and I know for a fact that thor would hit him without much trouble.

By the way, why didnt you respond back to my pm.

Originally posted by carver9
Not all but I agree SOME. Iron man has great combat speed and has actually did things in nanoseconds and I know for a fact that thor would hit him without much trouble.

By the way, why didnt you respond back to my pm.

Trying to convince you of reason was a lost cause.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Every since it was stated that she is faster than Superman in a fight you been disrespecting her. Should I pull up all the times you said before that she can fight DBZ style?

When the **** has that EVER been stated? Oh, and I want something concrete, not your interpretation of a feat.

Originally posted by Enyalus
With CIS on, sure there are.

Wonder Woman's held her own against him before. If they're both going all out, I don't see him taking her down easily either.

That was my secondary point.

How do u figure, if both are fighting at full capcity I don't see why supes would suddenly forget he has speed....and on that note every on-panel depiction of there speed has always eluded to him>Her in regard to h2h speed.

Originally posted by batdude123
When the **** has that EVER been stated? Oh, and I want something concrete, not your interpretation of a feat.

I wouldn't take it seriously, raoul has already warned him for using that scan.

Originally posted by batdude123
When the **** has that EVER been stated? Oh, and I want something concrete, not your interpretation of a feat.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Wonder Woman is definitely faster than Superman in combat.

http://i35.tinypic.com/33zfnme.jpg

...It's also mentioned in either JLA 23 or 24, I think.

Though, Raoul is going to pitch a fit because that's McDuffie.

Thor would beat WW it's as simple as that. It wouldn't be easy and I can see WW taking some victories especially if no weapons etc are allowed and it's just h2h only. I see WW certainly hanging with Thor. However, with weapons allowed thor dominates. Without I think he takes the majority is tough battles imo

Originally posted by Enyalus
...It's also mentioned in either JLA 23 or 24, I think.

Though, Raoul is going to pitch a fit because that's McDuffie.

Well hey I said i was okay with the armbar incident so yeah why not accept this.

Originally posted by Enyalus
...It's also mentioned in either JLA 23 or 24, I think.

Though, Raoul is going to pitch a fit because that's McDuffie.

McDuffie is such a tool...

Its on panel though and it was brought up more then once.

Yet by feats which is how we debate...it isn't validated and that's going for about 20+ years now lol.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
I wouldn't take it seriously, raoul has already warned him for using that scan.
Warned me? What the hell are you talking about? warned me? Crawl in a hole.

Well he was being nice...read between the lines.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Well he was being nice...read between the lines.
No He's not. He can't warn me for using a scan. Becuz he doesn't like it. Crawl in a hole as I said. In the scan, Superman doesn't eve n believe Diana is right Until, Batman, proves the point. You can't go around invalidating scans you don't like because you don't like it.

A scan that was misrepresented....NVR u were banned once so don't get this account ruined to.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
A scan that was misrepresented....NVR u were banned once so don't get this account ruined to.
First of all, do not call me nvr. I'm not. Or i"ll report you and you'll get the ban. And the scan was NOT misrepresented. I posted exactly what it said. You don't like it. Tuff. It's canon. And validated by Batman. And By Superman.

So is supes throwing a punch with infinite energy behind it...clearly the scan reflected a opinion thats been contradicted is quite frankly spoken out of ignorance....okay mr"sentry can stalemate Galactus"LMAO.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
So is supes throwing a punch with infinite energy behind it...clearly the scan reflected a opinion thats been contradicted is quite frankly spoken out of ignorance....okay mr"sentry can stalemate Galactus"LMAO.
The scan is backed by Wonder Woman, who can't lie, giving recount of her and Superman Sparring, Backed by Batman's answer and then validated by Superman understanding what they are saying. He didn't agree either. Superman fans want Superman to be better than everyone. It's canon. Pure and Simple. backed by logic. And it makes sense. The Speed of hermes is 300,000 miles per hour. Which is what Diana taps. Superman moves so much faster than that. The only way Diana Should be able to fight him is with Superior combat speed. Even in her best speed feats, She has only gone a few times light. Breaking the SFB. Unless Superman isn't faster. Is that what you are saying? Even the scans says he has the advantage in raw speed.

Originally posted by fangirl101
The Speed of hermes is 300,000 miles per hour. Which is what Diana taps.

Surely you meant per second...

Originally posted by Enyalus
Surely you meant per second...
What ever. yeah.

Originally posted by fangirl101
The scan is backed by Wonder Woman, who can't lie, giving recount of her and Superman Sparring, Backed by Batman's answer and then validated by Superman understanding what they are saying. He didn't agree either. Superman fans want Superman to be better than everyone. It's canon. Pure and Simple. backed by logic. And it makes sense. The Speed of hermes is 300,000 miles per hour. Which is what Diana taps. Superman moves so much faster than that. The only way Diana Should be able to fight him is with Superior combat speed. Even in her best speed feats, She has only gone a few times light. Breaking the SFB. Unless Superman isn't faster. Is that what you are saying? Even the scans says he has the advantage in raw speed.

Ur debating powerset's...we need feats and unfortunatly for u, her comment is contradictied by a merit of feats under supes name. It also should be noted the author has a general lack of knowledge and overall poor grasp of supes enough as it is....anything else.

lol she gets humbled at 2.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Oh. What ever. I'm pissed at him for messing up my WW respect thread. And yes Gamora Blitzed Thanos. Then report or take it to a PM. Don't be starting around here.

Originally posted by Badabing
Then report or take it to a PM. Don't be starting around here.
Dont' worry. It's over. It's totally obvious to anyone reading what's happening. I've been MIA for a while. I'll go back to that. merry holidays.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Dont' worry. It's over. It's totally obvious to anyone reading what's happening. I've been MIA for a while. I'll go back to that. merry holidays. Well, okay then. uhuh


Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays.

Originally posted by fangirl101
The scan is backed by Wonder Woman, who can't lie, giving recount of her and Superman Sparring, Backed by Batman's answer and then validated by Superman understanding what they are saying. He didn't agree either. Superman fans want Superman to be better than everyone. It's canon. Pure and Simple. backed by logic. And it makes sense. The Speed of hermes is 300,000 miles per hour. Which is what Diana taps. Superman moves so much faster than that. The only way Diana Should be able to fight him is with Superior combat speed. Even in her best speed feats, She has only gone a few times light. Breaking the SFB. Unless Superman isn't faster. Is that what you are saying? Even the scans says he has the advantage in raw speed.

To be fair, even if WW can't lie as such she can and has been wrong about things that she has stated or believed on panel. You don't have to be lying to be wrong. And remember - all the statements in those JLAs were purely characters' own opinions and not presented as facts.

Batman's answer was... irrelevant. He compares Bolt and Bruce Lee? Well, Bolt has a combination of training, technique, power, stamina, muscle structure, lung capacity, psychology, steroids (just kidding!) etc that allows him to run really fast over the shorter distances (but not the longer distances - other athletes are faster there). Lee had some almost certainly different combination of these factors that allowed him to move his body fast in a completely different way. As an analogy it is useful only to demonstrate that there are different types of speed, which everyone would already know anyway. It tells us precisely nothing more about whether or not the application of superspeed in a fight situation would be greater than the application of Hermes speed.

Given that Superman is stated to be able to move faster than pretty much anybody on earth except Flash types (I mean move his body faster, not just fly faster) and has years of feats to back that up, I would say he is faster in a fight or whatever type of speed. But yes WW's skill can offset that advantage to some extent exactly as you would expect.

Hence in their past fights neither seemed to be able to dodge each other's blows very well and were landing plenty of their own. If WW really was faster in combat, as well as having her better skills, I don't think this would be the case. Would you really be punched around like that if you were fighting someone who was a noticeably slower fighter than you and who had considerably less MA/HTH skills and training?

gah. poxy IE...

Originally posted by Enyalus
...It's also mentioned in either JLA 23 or 24, I think.

Though, Raoul is going to pitch a fit because that's McDuffie.

So that means that Batman could also dodge punches from Superman as well.....

Originally posted by batdude123
When the **** has that EVER been stated? Oh, and I want something concrete, not your interpretation of a feat.

blame mctoolie.

post i meant to make earlier:

Originally posted by basilisk
To be fair, even if WW can't lie as such she can and has been wrong about things that she has stated or believed on panel. You don't have to be lying to be wrong. And remember - all the statements in those JLAs were purely characters' own opinions and not presented as facts.

Batman's answer was... irrelevant. He compares Bolt and Bruce Lee? Well, Bolt has a combination of training, technique, power, stamina, muscle structure, lung capacity, psychology, steroids (just kidding!) etc that allows him to run really fast over the shorter distances (but not the longer distances - other athletes are faster there). Lee had some almost certainly different combination of these factors that allowed him to move his body fast in a completely different way. As an analogy it is useful only to demonstrate that there are different types of speed, which everyone would already know anyway. It tells us precisely nothing more about whether or not the application of superspeed in a fight situation would be greater than the application of Hermes speed.

Given that Superman is stated to be able to move faster than pretty much anybody on earth except Flash types (I mean move his body faster, not just fly faster) and has years of feats to back that up, I would say he is faster in a fight or whatever type of speed. But yes WW's skill can offset that advantage to some extent exactly as you would expect.

Hence in their past fights neither seemed to be able to dodge each other's blows very well and were landing plenty of their own. If WW really was faster in combat, as well as having her better skills, I don't think this would be the case. Would you really be punched around like that if you were fighting someone who was a noticeably slower fighter than you and who had considerably less MA/HTH skills and training?



pretty much how i feel on the matter...

McDuffie even acknowledges Clark's superspeed, but he doesn't seem to understand what that means.

He must think that Supes can flail his arms and legs randomly at near lightspeed. He doesn't seem to realize that his thoughts, perceptions, and reflexes are all accelerated to match.

Maybe in next month's JLA, Batman will put Clark in an armbar...

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Does she really have speed blitz, havn't ever seen her do it. I was also debating if I should have put morg in SS place since Morg has actual credible h2h.

Just becasue a character dont regulary speedblitz in comics.


Dont mean they couldnt do it. WW,captian marvel black adam and supes im sure are all capeable of blitzing targets , and there are other characters out there too that could.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Thor should be stronger- In the superman fight Superman stated Thor was the strongest foe he'd EVER fought, and that would include wonderwoman...wouldn't it?

Thor also has the ability to temporarily enter warrior madness, which amplifies his strength x10.

a warrior madness thor would almost certainly outclass WW.

Note also that *with mjolnir* thor is able to swing and hit at multiples of lightspeed, so WW may not have a speed advantage here. Thor's durability is likely a lot higher, as well- I'd give him the edge in pure H2H.


WM thor physically could demolish superman WW captian marvel and black adam at the same time.


To bad he is so stupid the he cant beat a single one of the by him self.

Originally posted by Eel O'Brien
McDuffie even acknowledges Clark's superspeed, but he doesn't seem to understand what that means.

He must think that Supes can flail his arms and legs randomly at near lightspeed. He doesn't seem to realize that his thoughts, perceptions, and reflexes are all accelerated to match.

Maybe in next month's JLA, Batman will put Clark in an armbar...

normally i'd find that hilarious, but with mcduffie, you never know...

Also, did anyobody else go 'wtf?' at Superman's retort with the 'Excuse me, Diana. Superspeed?'.

Originally posted by fangirl101
You don't read WW do you. I HATE when someone gives an opinion without knowing the facts. Superman said that Thor MAY be. not that he was. please. Reread JLA Avengers. And Wondy has blocked projectiles faster than Thor can throw his hammer. And it's not just about how fast he can throw. She can out maneuver him. Thor doesn't just enter WM. and Her lasso PWNS his warrior madness. It would instantly calm him down. I don't think Thor's durability is a lot higher. He's been knocked out by a bullet under the skin. And In pure h2h, she WTF pwns him. No top tier brick can beat Diana in hand to hand alone.

Superman can, and has...

Originally posted by snyper1982
Superman can, and has...
No He hasn't.

^
League of One, Tenth Circle, it was strongly implied in For Tomorrow... I could go on.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I hope that doesn't make me as lame as McDuffie.

not far off... biscuits

...Welp this is the first time I think I've ever had Thor losing to WW but in pure h2h, its basically a toss up but Thor is used to mjolnir and WW is used to beating on Supes barehanded. I'll give the slight edge to WW.



Originally posted by fangirl101
Dont' worry. It's over. It's totally obvious to anyone reading what's happening. I've been MIA for a while. I'll go back to that. merry holidays.


Go back to that meaning posting more and not less right? RIGHT?

Originally posted by Eel O'Brien
^
League of One, Tenth Circle, it was strongly implied in For Tomorrow... I could go on.
Strongly implied means NOTHING.

Originally posted by jalek moye
tell me u arnt seriously using that as evidence. We all know that thor woud put up a really good fight agains supes, as long as he has mjolnir


And so long as it it written by a unbias writer.

Originally posted by fangirl101
Strongly implied means NOTHING.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=11276665

And he did physically dominate her in League of One, WW admitted she couldn't match him physically.

Stops at one.

Originally posted by Allankles
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=11276665

And he did physically dominate her in League of One, WW admitted she couldn't match him physically.
That's a big F. She fought him back in that arc and wasn't even trying to fight. he was under control. Superman has also admitted that CM and WW punch the same. And he considers CM his equal. going by Superman's statements.

Originally posted by fangirl101
That's a big F. She fought him back in that arc and wasn't even trying to fight. he was under control. Superman has also admitted that CM and WW punch the same. And he considers CM his equal. going by Superman's statements.

By her own admission she couldn't hope to match Supes physically in League of One after they'd had a scrap, with Superman getting the better of it.

And in the scan I showed you Superman under mind control is instructed to humiliate (not to kill) WW and he goes about his business efficiently disarming her and pinning her to the wall against her will.

Originally posted by Allankles
By her own admission she couldn't hope to match Supes physically in League of One after they'd had a scrap, with Superman getting the better of it.

And in the scan I showed you Superman under mind control is instructed to humiliate (not to kill) WW and he goes about his business efficiently disarming her and pinning her to the wall against her will.
Wonder Woman has also stated that she could tear herself away from Superman if she wanted. You can't do that if someone is that hopelessly beyond you physically. I was unaware that getting kicked thru a mountain side was humiliating. I'd assume her kicking and nothing happening would be far more humiliating .

Originally posted by fangirl101
...going by Superman's statements.....Wonder Woman has also stated...

Statements mean NOTHING. What's depicted on panel sets the standard.

Originally posted by Allankles
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=11276665


Of note here: Unlike WW who simply has to move her bracers in the way of an attack, Superman has to very carefully deflect the mystical blade in a way that wouldn't have the edge crossing his skin.

That would take a LOT of speed and precision, especially against someone who is trained like WW.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
So that means that Batman could also dodge punches from Superman as well..... [/QUOTE

Batman doesn't have the speed of Hermes.

Look, the scan is what it is. He was clearly trying to make a point by including the dialogue. You can debate its validity but you can't ignore it. It's a writer's prerogative. It's not like he is claiming something that is far-fethced. Given their power sets and training, I see the point he is trying to make. In my opinion, that really should be how it is. Clark should have faster flight and ground speed, but Diana should have faster combat speed/reflexes. Again, that just how I *think* it should be.

That being said, I REALLY hate the way it was handled. If he was trying to make the point that Diana has superior H2H speed he failed miserably. The fact the Superman contended the claim is problematic. If they've sparred together, then wouldn't he already know? If he did know, but was putting up a front then t makes him look like a little boy who got his pride hurt. I appreciaite what he was trying to do, but he could have handled it so much better.

Originally posted by fangirl101
No He hasn't.

Yes he has. Scans have already been posted, but like usual, you ignore it and retort with some specious arguments.

Clears it

Originally posted by Sasaraixx

Batman doesn't have the speed of Hermes.

Look, the scan is what it is. He was clearly trying to make a point by including the dialogue. You can debate its validity but you can't ignore it. It's a writer's prerogative. It's not like he is claiming something that is far-fethced. Given their power sets and training, I see the point he is trying to make. In my opinion, that really should be how it is. Clark should have faster flight and ground speed, but Diana should have faster combat speed/reflexes. Again, that just how I *think* it should be.

That being said, I REALLY hate the way it was handled. If he was trying to make the point that Diana has superior H2H speed he failed miserably. The fact the Superman contended the claim is problematic. If they've sparred together, then wouldn't he already know? If he did know, but was putting up a front then t makes him look like a little boy who got his pride hurt. I appreciaite what he was trying to do, but he could have handled it so much better.

Yeah Batman doesnt but we have seen him dodge punches from WW and apparently hes survived a Superman speedblitz....

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah Batman doesnt but we have seen him dodge punches from WW and apparently hes survived a Superman speedblitz....


He is the goddamn Batman for God sake.

Clears

Originally posted by Enyalus
Stopped by Gamora. It'd be a good fight, though.

Why Gamora?

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Why Gamora?

Better H2H fighter. Expert with pressure point blows. Not afraid to go for the kill. Fast enough to at least compete. With pressure point strikes the strength difference doesn't matter a whole lot. Healing factor on par with classic Wolverine.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Better H2H fighter. Expert with pressure point blows. Not afraid to go for the kill. Fast enough to at least compete. With pressure point strikes the strength difference doesn't matter a whole lot. Healing factor on par with classic Wolverine.

You think she has better MA, and you also have to remember Diana has a huge speed advantage in combat as well as strength.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah Batman doesnt but we have seen him dodge punches from WW and apparently hes survived a Superman speedblitz....

As others have pointed out, it's Batman. Reason often goes out the window when we deal with him. The point is that it is much more ridiculous to assert that he is faster/as fast as Clark than making the same statement about Diana. He doesn't have super speed.

Anyway, back on topic.

I think the order is off. Gamora is her greatest challenge in the gauntlet and the only one I see beating her in these circumstances.

DIANA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!........stops at four lol

Originally posted by The Great Galen
You think she has better MA

No, I know she has better MA. She's mastered 83.7% of unarmed and armed combat forms in the entire universe. The only people I know of who even come close to that kind of craziness are Champion (who is a tool and only ever uses boxing) and Karate Kid (who I know nothing about except that he's a level 15 fighter and Batman's a level 12.) Her H2H skill allows her to go toe-to-toe with people like Ronan the Accuser - who beats on heralds of Galactus and KOs Genis-Vell.

Very few people do more with less than Gamora does. When it comes down to it, all she basically has to rely on is her MA skill, yet it allows her to compete with the likes of Ronan and Terrax and Thanos (can't believe I just put them in the same sentence.) And this is a H2H gauntlet, so...

Originally posted by Enyalus
No, I know she has better MA. She's mastered 83.7% of unarmed and armed combat forms in the entire universe. The only people I know of who even come close to that kind of craziness are Champion (who is a tool and only ever uses boxing) and Karate Kid (who I know nothing about except that he's a level 15 fighter and Batman's a level 12.) Her H2H skill allows her to go toe-to-toe with people like Ronan the Accuser - who beats on heralds of Galactus and KOs Genis-Vell.

Very few people do more with less than Gamora does. When it comes down to it, all she basically has to rely on is her MA skill, yet it allows her to compete with the likes of Ronan and Terrax and Thanos (can't believe I just put them in the same sentence.) And this is a H2H gauntlet, so...

WW is generally considered much better then Supes in regards to MA...and by sheer feats supes MA actually appears to rival most Godly MA users. Diana might not be KK but neither is Gamora by a large degree, and in my estimation given how WW h2h skill has allowed her to overcome the massive power disadvantage agaisnt legitimate peak herald characters and compete compotently....I'd say it would be very poor judgment to say Gamora is the better MA.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
WW is generally considered much better then Supes in regards to MA...and by sheer feats supes MA actually appears to rival most Godly MA users.

Besides pressure-point striking a not-in-his-right-mind Batman, what are these feats you speak of?

Originally posted by Enyalus
Besides pressure-point striking a not-in-his-right-mind Batman, what are these feats you speak of?

lol..hey but according to u being out of you're mind still doesn't mean ur not fighting right. Anyhow agaisnt mongul jr when he used a small knife to preasure point strike him(at superspeed) plus reference to his training and mastering of ancient kryptonian MA. Oh and a reference to being lighting quick with pure MA ability(it was something like that).

Originally posted by The Great Galen
lol..hey but according to u being out of you're mind still doesn't mean ur not fighting right. Anyhow agaisnt mongul jr when he used a small knife to preasure point strike him(at superspeed) plus reference to his training and mastering of ancient kryptonian MA. Oh and a reference to being lighting quick with pure MA ability(it was something like that).

This translate to 'godlike MA ability'...whereas Gamora's mastery of more than four-fifths of all combat techniques in the universe does not?

Okay.

Originally posted by Enyalus
This translate to 'godlike MA ability'...whereas Gamora's mastery of more than four-fifths of all combat techniques in the universe does not?

Okay.

By sheer feats what does Gamora really have to her credit, supes has ecompeted blow for blow with Orion whom is certainly Godly in MA in his own right. He even deflected a mystic blade away from himself with his bare hands...and it was agaisnt WW of all people. Really in the realm of marvel Gamora might stick out because lets face it...most herald levelers in marvel don't have epic MA. In DCU, its a dime a dozen so....yeah nothing new here.

Look at her respect thread for a few minutes. I have a few of her appearances, but I'm obviously not going to change your mind and am not going to go through the trouble of posting scans myself to no avail.

Gamora is the best H2H fighter in this gauntlet.

What part of mastering 83.4 percent of the combat styles in the universe is so hard to get? this is someone who uses her MA to regularly face thousands of armed combatants and go toe to toe with herald level characters despite having no exotic powers of her own. How is this even being debated?

Originally posted by Enyalus
Look at her respect thread for a few minutes. I have a few of her appearances, but I'm obviously not going to change your mind and am not going to go through the trouble of posting scans myself to no avail.

Gamora is the best H2H fighter in this gauntlet.

In ur opinion, don't really see anything suggesting her being beyond clark,Diana or orion. She is comparable sure but nah, she is a dime a dozen.

My god

Originally posted by Naija boy
What part of mastering 83.4 percent of the combat styles in the universe is so hard to get? this is someone who uses her MA to regularly face thousands of armed combatants and go toe to toe with herald level characters despite having no exotic powers of her own. How is this even being debated?

Diana constantly battles opponents whom range in the high herald margin with nothing but pure MA skill...since her stats are generally a couple grades below the elite of DCU. Gamora by sheer feats doesnt come off as being any exceptional MA talent that we havn't seen before....someone like KK on the other hand speaks for himself.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Diana constantly battles opponents whom range in the high herald margin with nothing but pure MA skill...since her stats are generally a couple grades below the elite of DCU. Gamora by sheer feats doesnt come off as being any exceptional MA talent that we havn't seen before....someone like KK on the other hand speaks for himself.

What are u even talking about? lol. Diana high level blunt force durability as well as being one of the strongest heroes in all of the DC. As for her ranking, she is mid herald level so where u got that she is so far below the high herald levelers only god knows. How do u compare that to gamora regularly taking and in some instances being able to overwhelm genuine class 100+ characters and thousands of armed enemies simultaneously?

Though this really isnt surprising.

He asked for my explanation why I felt Diana stops at two and I explained.

I'm really not going to get into this any deeper.

Originally posted by Naija boy
What are u even talking about? lol. Diana high level blunt force durability as well as being one of the strongest heroes in all of the DC. As for her ranking, she is mid herald level so where u got that she is so far below the high herald levelers only god knows. How do u compare that to gamora regularly taking and in some instances being able to overwhelm genuine class 100+ characters and thousands of armed enemies simultaneously?

Though this really isnt surprising.

Diana has put the gap between her and her superiors because of her MA ability, and what credentials are you basing there MA readings off...

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Diana has put the gap between her and her superiors because of her MA ability, and what credentials are you basing there MA readings off...

What? U didnt even reply to anything in my post or provide anything yo support ur fallacious claims. what credentials am i basing whose MA readings off? What are u even talking about?

Originally posted by Naija boy
What? U didnt even reply to anything in my post or provide anything yo support ur fallacious claims. what credentials am i basing whose MA readings off? What are u even talking about?

So the evasive tactic, no worries u conceded with some grace this time