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From the BBC:

A bill to extend the presidential term from four to six years has been backed by Russia's upper house of parliament after regional assemblies endorsed it...The bill's rapid progression is being seen as a sign Vladimir Putin may return to the presidency soon. The changes needed the backing of at least two-thirds of the country's regional legislatures but were approved unanimously, according to Russian news agencies... Mr Putin became prime minister this year after being obliged under the constitution to step down after two consecutive presidential terms. He was succeeded as president by Mr Medvedev.

Anaylsts say it has always been assumed that Mr Putin may return after Mr Medvedev has completed one term. But the apparent rush to get this constitutional amendment through is being seen by some as a sign that Mr Putin is in a hurry and may return much sooner. Then he could potentially serve another two six-year terms.

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7795310.stm

Another article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7730179.stm argues that Putin will very likely be back.

From Putin himself: "As for who will run for office and when, it's too early to talk about that now"


(For those of you who don't want to read the articles in full, basically Russia has changed its constitution to extend the Presidential Term and also allow previous incumbents (Putin) who had completed the now obsolete maximum limit of two terms to have another go at the Presidency.)

Putin never really left, Medvedev is his puppet.

Its odd. Putin looks almost exactly like the imperial officer in Gav's avvy.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Its odd. Putin looks almost exactly like the imperial officer in Gav's avvy.

hahaha

He does a bit!

Originally posted by Robtard
Putin never really left, Medvedev is his puppet.

Apprentice, rather than puppet.

Putin picked Medvedev out years and years before Putin had anything to do with Presidency or politics and polished him and thought him the ''Putin Way'' sort to speak.

...

Contrary to popular belief, Putin has carefully planned everything that is currently going on in Russia's political scene, including Medvedev's presidency and his return. Only he knows how far in advance has Puttin mapped out his future and influence in Russia's politics.
That is why Russia has not been this strong in years.
Go Putin!!

So... Putin is Darth Sideous?

Originally posted by lil bitchiness


Contrary to popular belief, Putin has carefully planned everything that is currently going on in Russia's political scene, including Medvedev's presidency and his return. Only he knows how far in advance has Puttin mapped out his future and influence in Russia's politics.
That is why Russia has not been this strong in years.
Go Putin!! How is that contrary to popular belief? I was under the impression that its common knowledge

Nobody should ever be surprised by this. Russia is, after all, a democracy on-paper-only.

He is an incredible judoka.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Apprentice, rather than puppet.

Putin picked Medvedev out years and years before Putin had anything to do with Presidency or politics and polished him and thought him the ''Putin Way'' sort to speak.

...

Contrary to popular belief, Putin has carefully planned everything that is currently going on in Russia's political scene, including Medvedev's presidency and his return. Only he knows how far in advance has Puttin mapped out his future and influence in Russia's politics.
That is why Russia has not been this strong in years.
Go Putin!!

Not been this strong in years?

Russia has suddenly become very quiet right now because what the West knew would happen has happened- as soon as energy prices fell, suddenly Russia's foundations of bravado are kicked out from under it.

The credit crisis has hit Russia pretty damn hard. Now it needs a happy West again.

Russia is still close to nothing, strength wise. It is (relatively) poor, backwards and over-dependent on energy markets.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
From the BBC:

A bill to extend the presidential term from four to six years has been backed by Russia's upper house of parliament after regional assemblies endorsed it...The bill's rapid progression is being seen as a sign Vladimir Putin may return to the presidency soon. The changes needed the backing of at least two-thirds of the country's regional legislatures but were approved unanimously, according to Russian news agencies... Mr Putin became prime minister this year after being obliged under the constitution to step down after two consecutive presidential terms. He was succeeded as president by Mr Medvedev.

Anaylsts say it has always been assumed that Mr Putin may return after Mr Medvedev has completed one term. But the apparent rush to get this constitutional amendment through is being seen by some as a sign that Mr Putin is in a hurry and may return much sooner. Then he could potentially serve another two six-year terms.

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7795310.stm

Another article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7730179.stm argues that Putin will very likely be back.

From Putin himself: "As for who will run for office and when, it's too early to talk about that now"


(For those of you who don't want to read the articles in full, basically Russia has changed its constitution to extend the Presidential Term and also allow previous incumbents (Putin) who had completed the now obsolete maximum limit of two terms to have another go at the Presidency.) Yeah, Putin was always planning to go back to the presidency after one term.

Originally posted by Strangelove
Yeah, Putin was always planning to go back to the presidency after one term.

Are you ready for another 12 years?

The fact that Putin will be the true power in Russia as long as he's alive is a simple political reality.

Originally posted by Strangelove
The fact that Putin will be the true power in Russia as long as he's alive is a simple political reality.

Is that good or bad in your opinion?

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Is that good or bad in your opinion? It depends on how committed he is to his apparent imperialism.

Originally posted by RedAlertv2
How is that contrary to popular belief? I was under the impression that its common knowledge

Popular belief seems to be that Putin is this dictator KGB who bullied his way to the top and now he won't leave.

Whereas it is not like that at all.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Not been this strong in years?

Russia has suddenly become very quiet right now because what the West knew would happen has happened- as soon as energy prices fell, suddenly Russia's foundations of bravado are kicked out from under it.

The credit crisis has hit Russia pretty damn hard. Now it needs a happy West again.

Russia is still close to nothing, strength wise. It is (relatively) poor, backwards and over-dependent on energy markets.

Ah right, because Yeltsin was bending over for the West, Russia was good then.

I wouldn't think so. If Russia is so pathetic, why has noone done anything in Georgia - all West did was say ''Russia is naughty - but we won't get involved''.

Now Putin is selling defence missiles to Iran, and is publicly advertising it.
What is West going to do? Nothing.

Besides, Europe is heavily dependant on Russian gas - hence Germans not daring to upset Russians.

And also, Moscow houses more billionares than any other city in the world (possibly thats why it is the most expencive city in the world). SOMETHING must be right/favourable somewhere in Russia.

But I do believe it is at Russia's up most advantage for West to keep considering it weak and undeveloped.

What is this fantasy world you have started living in, Lil? Where Russia is some sort of brilliant mastermind that can confound all the other countries into such deceit? It's such arrant nonsense!

No-one intervened in Georgia because no-one is going to start a war over GEORGIA of all places. Ukraine- maybe,. But not Georgia, and certainly not when Georgia made the braindead move it did. Did you seriously think anyone was ever going to send troops to protect it? In today's climate? What with Iraq and Afghanistan, it will take something MUCH bigger than that to get another troop intervention from the West- something that actually matters, rather than just something where Russia is trying to show what a hardass it can be, like the loudest kid in the class.

No-one is doing anything about the arms sales because the whole darn world engages in such arms sales. That's nothing special as pertaining to Russia; the arms trade is simply something that's never going to be shut down so.

Europe is indeed dependant on gas- but as I said, that means Russia is dependant on that depenedence. This dependence on energy markets is a massive weakness to Russia- and whenever energy prices fall, as they have done now, it is in serious trouble. As I say, that's why Russia has gone very quiet lately.

When it comes to money, the facts of the matter are simple. Russia's econimic strength is still low- and its defence budget is lower than Europe's. For that matter, it is lower than the UK's alone. Is this because Russia has entered some new era of peace and low military spending?

No- it's because they can't afford it. Russia is a shadow of what the USSR was. Their armed forces are still only based around high manpower- their equipment is lacking, their maintenance poor, the military infrastructure underfunded. They are desperatrely trying to increase their military budget year by year, but at this rate it will be many, many years before they become even comparable the Soviet Era. Compared to US might, Russia is almost nothing.

If Yeltsin had been producing a viable energy market then that would have gone much better for him. No point comparing two entirely different situations.

The facts are these-


Russia is increasingly becoming a nationalistic and hostile place

It is entirely dependent on high energy prices for any form of power. When the prices drop, its power disppears. They have no alternatives.

It therefore needs the West as a permanent ally


Dismissing any of these things as propoganda (or worse, some brilliant plot of feigned weakness) just shows you are in fantasy land. The ironic thing about such statements is that western propoganda is, if anything, going the other way- portraying Russia as much more powerful and scary than it really is. Well, it's always politically useful to have enemies you can point to, I guess.

now u look here pardner Russins didnt invade georgia...they caant woop tha south! the south will rise again damn it...jus kidding...you just reminded me of the internet posts from people who live in Georgia that honestly thought the russians invaded them...I drink alot but not even all the backwoods moonshine even the stuff that makes you go blind would make me believe Russia invaded the state of Georgia of all places...sorry YALL but damn..lol...okay back to my drink..beer..Im still laughing about that...

As if I am going to read all that post. It all just says ''Russians are bad, we are good''.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Popular belief seems to be that Putin is this dictator KGB who bullied his way to the top and now he won't leave.

Whereas it is not like that at all.



Why else would Putin want to extend the number of terms that a president can serve?

Originally posted by lil bitchiness

I wouldn't think so. If Russia is so pathetic, why has noone done anything in Georgia - all West did was say ''Russia is naughty - but we won't get involved''.

Now Putin is selling defence missiles to Iran, and is publicly advertising it.
What is West going to do? Nothing.

Besides, Europe is heavily dependant on Russian gas - hence Germans not daring to upset Russians.

And also, Moscow houses more billionares than any other city in the world (possibly thats why it is the most expencive city in the world). SOMETHING must be right/favourable somewhere in Russia.

But I do believe it is at Russia's up most advantage for West to keep considering it weak and undeveloped.

Why has no one done anything for Georgia? What are they suppose to do? Start a nuclear war with them over it?

Russia has already been slapped in the face by the US and POLAND. Russia threatened and ruffled its feathers and then when Poland actually agreed to the missile shield Russia just backed down and did nothing.

As for the billionaires? Yeah something went right..its called communism collapsing and a select view grabbing all the goodies for themselves.

Originally posted by KidRock
Why else would Putin want to extend the number of terms that a president can serve?



Why has no one done anything for Georgia? What are they suppose to do? Start a nuclear war with them over it?

Russia has already been slapped in the face by the US and POLAND. Russia threatened and ruffled its feathers and then when Poland actually agreed to the missile shield Russia just backed down and did nothing.

As for the billionaires? Yeah something went right..its called communism collapsing and a select view grabbing all the goodies for themselves.

Georgia broke the seasfire and attacked RUSSIAN soldiers and RUSSIAN citizens..
That is a provocation against Russia, to which Russia has responded.

You don't kill Russian citizens and soldiers than hope that America will protect you.

Georgia got what it deserved by attacking Russian citizens.
They should be thankful Putin didn't flatten the whole country to the ground, which is what America did when American citizens were killed. Not one country, a whole nation was drawn into genocide.


So, forget your obsession with Russia and Putin and concentrate on not getting blown up in Iraq and Afghanistan. And at home for that matter.

And another thing - it is NOT alright to shit all over Russia just because you like to think Russia is weak. Remember that America never stopped humiliating Russia and treating her as a defeated nation for years after Cold War, even though we all agreed that Communism is out and Russia was a friendly nation.

Putin is a smart man with a huge Russian following and support.

And he will make sure it is done what needs to be to protect Russia.

First step was, when he was first elected, to close down and extinguish all American funded non-goverment organisations in Russia.

He will get elected again. And by God I hope he does.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness

Contrary to popular belief, Putin has carefully planned everything that is currently going on in Russia's political scene, including Medvedev's presidency and his return.

How is that contrary to popular belief? That's exactly what everyone thinks.

Putin has done a lot of good things for Russia. I haven't lived there in a decade, and I know better than to believe what the news here, in the US or in the UK says about him. I'm going on what I hear in the Russian news, and the opinions of family and friends that live over there. The people love him, and I think it would be great if he got re-elected. Ether way, he is still the main political influence anyway.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Georgia broke the seasfire and attacked RUSSIAN soldiers and RUSSIAN citizens..
That is a provocation against Russia, to which Russia has responded.

You don't kill Russian citizens and soldiers than hope that America will protect you.

Georgia got what it deserved by attacking Russian citizens.
They should be thankful Putin didn't flatten the whole country to the ground, which is what America did when American citizens were killed. Not one country, a whole nation was drawn into genocide.


So, forget your obsession with Russia and Putin and concentrate on not getting blown up in Iraq and Afghanistan. And at home for that matter.

Georgia attacked SOUTH OSSETIA..NOT Russia.

Maybe Russia should let go of its old imperialistic ways and let nations be independent like they want to be and not try to strong arm them. Nations such as Ukraine and Poland now realize Russia cannot bully them around anymore, and it pisses Russia off so it needs to flex its hollow muscles by attacking a country with the population of Wisconsin. What a victory for the motherland.

I have no obsession with Putin or Russia. Neither do you it seems from the lack of knowledge of the country. Wow Russia has the most billionaires living in one city..too bad 30% of the country makes less then a livable amount and they rank 67 in the Human Development Index. Hey 16 more slots and they will push in front of Mexico!

And don't worry, we will finish what we started in Afghanistan. Something old Russia couldn't do.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
And another thing - it is NOT alright to shit all over Russia just because you like to think Russia is weak. Remember that America never stopped humiliating Russia and treating her as a defeated nation for years after Cold War, even though we all agreed that Communism is out and Russia was a friendly nation.

Putin is a smart man with a huge Russian following and support.

And he will make sure it is done what needs to be to protect Russia.

First step was, when he was first elected, to close down and extinguish all American funded non-goverment organisations in Russia.

He will get elected again. And by God I hope he does. Its absolutely true that Putin is intelligent and that he has the support of his people. But he is essentially turning Russia into a dictatorship again, I'm not sure how that is a good thing. Silencing/killing political dissidents, seizing the assets of billionaires and giving the money to his cronies, repossessing all major television networks, etc. We shouldn't be praising these actions.

Originally posted by Kosta
Putin has done a lot of good things for Russia. I haven't lived there in a decade, and I know better than to believe what the news here, in the US or in the UK says about him. I'm going on what I hear in the Russian news, and the opinions of family and friends that live over there. The people love him, and I think it would be great if he got re-elected. Ether way, he is still the main political influence anyway.

I absolutely agree.

You know better where to look for news on Russia and what is happening in Russia, including Putin.

Originally posted by KidRock
Georgia attacked SOUTH OSSETIA..NOT Russia.

Maybe Russia should let go of its old imperialistic ways and let nations be independent like they want to be and not try to strong arm them. Nations such as Ukraine and Poland now realize Russia cannot bully them around anymore, and it pisses Russia off so it needs to flex its hollow muscles by attacking a country with the population of Wisconsin. What a victory for the motherland.

I have no obsession with Putin or Russia. Neither do you it seems from the lack of knowledge of the country. Wow Russia has the most billionaires living in one city..too bad 30% of the country makes less then a livable amount and they rank 67 in the Human Development Index. Hey 16 more slots and they will push in front of Mexico!

And don't worry, we will finish what we started in Afghanistan. Something old Russia couldn't do.

No shit Sherlock! South Ossetia you say?

South Ossetia is populated by RUSSIAN citizens, who carry RUSSIAN passports, identify themselves as RUSSIAN as well as RUSSIAN soldiers.

South Ossetia has only been part of Georgia since Stalin handed it over to Georgia (him being Georgian himself, he sympathsed).

At least read SOME VAGUE history and some basic demographic of the area you're discussing.

Originally posted by dadudemon
The "invaded for oil reasons" argument is getting old.


Show me the proof of this "invaded for oil". How would you suppose one proves that?

Originally posted by Bardock42
How would you suppose one proves that?

Burden of proof is on him.


He seems to know.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Burden of proof is on him.


He seems to know. Yeah, but what proves it to you is...on you.

So I am wondering, what ballpark the evidence you are looking for should be in?

Originally posted by lil bitchiness


No shit Sherlock! South Ossetia you say?

South Ossetia is populated by RUSSIAN citizens, who carry RUSSIAN passports, identify themselves as RUSSIAN as well as RUSSIAN soldiers.

South Ossetia has only been part of Georgia since Stalin handed it over to Georgia (him being Georgian himself, he sympathsed).

At least read SOME VAGUE history and some basic demographic of the area you're discussing.

BUT IT ISNT RUSSIA.

Are you telling me if a group of American citizens were living in Mexico and were killed by say Colombians that America should invade Colombia?

You said it yourself Ossesia is a part of Georgia..so what was going on could have been called a civil war, or Georgia trying to take back control of its own province. I wonder why Russia has soldiers stationed in Ossetia. Is it to protect a group of Russians living in another country, or to use their deaths as an excuse to invade Georgia.

How many French people live in Quebec? Is France going to get up in arms and put a full military invasion on Canada if Quebec tries to break away?

Originally posted by KidRock
BUT IT ISNT RUSSIA.

Are you telling me if a group of American citizens were living in Mexico and were killed by say Colombians that America should invade Colombia?

You said it yourself Ossesia is a part of Georgia..so what was going on could have been called a civil war, or Georgia trying to take back control of its own province. I wonder why Russia has soldiers stationed in Ossetia. Is it to protect a group of Russians living in another country, or to use their deaths as an excuse to invade Georgia.

How many French people live in Quebec? Is France going to get up in arms and put a full military invasion on Canada if Quebec tries to break away?

Don't even get started on Quebec. French don't consider Quebecois French - and they're not.
It takes one day in Montreal and one day in Paris for everyone to see that.

South Ossetia has always been Russia. It only became Georgia because Stalin wished it so - and we are all too familiar with this ''rearanging'' of everyhting everywhere.

And yes, if American Citizens were killed off somewhere it is a responsibility of the American Government to protect those citizens.

Go to your embassy, they will tell you so.

I, for example have multiple nationalities, and therefore, if I go to one of the countries I hold a passport to, United Kingdom CANNOT protect me, since I am loyal to that country.

If I go to...Malawi, and someone takes me hostage, the UK will protect me, as I am their citizen (as well as a citizen of few other countries, and their responsibility)

If you went to Mongolia and got kidnapped, damn right America will step in and get you out.

In this case, it sin't a person, but a whole group of people. Or rather the WHOLE of that area (now a country, according to Russia).

"Fears of a deep chill spread across Europe yesterday after a row between Russia and Ukraine over gas prices cut supplies to the rest of the continent on a day of plummeting temperatures and heavy snowfalls."

All praise the glorious endeavours of our great leader. Under his watchful eye and Kung-Fu grip, Mother Russia wil once again know the warm and comfortable embrace of a true Czar to herald her into her rightful place as the one, true Superpower.
Just hedging my bets.

hedging..lol

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
As if I am going to read all that post. It all just says ''Russians are bad, we are good''.

First of all, refusing to read the post because it defeats your post is unworthy and you know it.

Secondly, it didn't say that at all- it didn't say anything about who is good or bad (though frankly Russia's moral position has never been tenable), it simply said that Russia was far weaker than you make it out to be.

Thirdly, Russia deliberately issued Russian passports into those areas just to get that excuse for intervention. It was cynical manipulation and all intelligent people see it for what it was. And don't pretend that intervention on that scale had the slightest bit to do with humanitarian concerns.

Putin does indeed have huge Russian support. So did Stalin- and apparently, so DOES Stalin. So that doesn't impress me one tiny bit. And anyone saying that they want to ignore everyhting the free western press says about Russia... are making fools of themselves. That type of view brings you outside the area of reasoned opinion. The press in thw west is not a mouthpiece for the political viewes of western Governments (whom they continualyl savage), it is instead a snakepit of debate, analysis and scoops- within which insightful analyysis can easily be found. You discard this at the cost of your own rationality.

Russia is now depserately trying to get a gas deal done with Ukraine before gas prices plummet as much as oil prices have. Due to crappy infrastructure, Russia's gas production is falling, and gas prices tend to follow oil by half a year. This is a massive crisis for Russia whose entire budget depends on these revenues. Their current spending plans absolutely depend on oil going for $70 a barrel; it may well end up far below that. And if Ukraine holds out for a better gas deal, Russia will, frankly, be buggered, and all possible sympathy Russia could have has been destroyed now because its innocent customers in Eastern Europe are paying the price for this.

The EU is not impressed by this recent gas politics of Russia, and have now issued a very strong statement for Russia to sort it out immediately. Russia will have to listen- because they are so totally dependent on these Western customers. Without them, Russia would be bankrupt again.

This has nothing to do with 'shitting' over Russia. It's just about pointing out the truth and countering the ridiciulous claims some people have made about Putin and Russia, which seem to be based on some strange psychological need for Russia to be a strong country despite it being anything but. Putin is simply a politically-connected businessman in it for the money and the power, and there is almost nothing laudable about that. Russia as a country has fallen prey to the worst excesses of commercialism, where nationilsed industries lead you to polticial power, but we know what happens to those who live by the sword.

Russia will have to change entirely again to ever be a viable world power once more. And they'd better be careful- because China jis doing a much better job than they are. Frankly, on a world political level, people can fairly much not give a crap about Russia. China, yes. India, soon. Russia- nope.

Russia refused the proposal to have EU inspectors help sort out the gas trade through the Ukraine.

Germany is lucky with having acceptable Gas reserves, but I believe some other countries are in trouble, especially with the record temperature lows.

I don't know if Russia isn't shooting themself in the leg though, but Ush said something more in depth on the topic.

Originally posted by tsscls
"Fears of a deep chill spread across Europe yesterday after a row between Russia and Ukraine over gas prices cut supplies to the rest of the continent on a day of plummeting temperatures and heavy snowfalls."

All praise the glorious endeavours of our great leader. Under his watchful eye and Kung-Fu grip, Mother Russia wil once again know the warm and comfortable embrace of a true Czar to herald her into her rightful place as the one, true Superpower.
Just hedging my bets.

If that's he case, you should really be praising the PRC; maybe get a Mao tattoo on your chest before it becomes a fad.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Russia refused the proposal to have EU inspectors help sort out the gas trade through the Ukraine.

Germany is lucky with having acceptable Gas reserves, but I believe some other countries are in trouble, especially with the record temperature lows.

I don't know if Russia isn't shooting themself in the leg though, but Ush said something more in depth on the topic.

You'd be surprised how many countries don't have any gas reserves. Which is just plain stupid.

Anyway, South Stream is on the way, that doesn't even pass via Ukraine.

Well, about 80% of Russia's gas to the EU used to go through the Ukraine I believe. And they provide about 25% of the EU gas...so of course countries will be in trouble if their business partners start to miss out on 20% of the deliveries.

But really, I would worry more about Russia, depending on how long that continues I would very much assume that the EU will do anything to cut down their dependency on Russia.