Cloud vs. Kil'jaeden

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ArtificialGlory
Who will prevail in a fight to the death?

Lich King
When at Kil'Jaedens titanic size, he by accident steps on Cloud when he tries to find him and his foot kills him. That's my theory. Cloud gets stomped.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Lich King
When at Kil'Jaedens titanic size, he by accident steps on Cloud when he tries to find him and his foot kills him. That's my theory. Cloud gets stomped.

Sounds Right...

ArtificialGlory
Hmm, doesn't Cloud have Omnislash or something?

Burning thought
yh, a weak featless move which has killed a total of one being who has also no durability

Lich King
Kil'Jaeden is in a whole different league from Cloud. Match Cloud against the somewhat lower levels of Warcraft if you do not want a stomp.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Lich King
Kil'Jaeden is in a whole different league from Cloud. Match Cloud against the somewhat lower levels of Warcraft if you do not want a stomp.

Hmm, then maybe K'J vs. Sephiroth?

Terryc250
Originally posted by Burning thought
yh, a weak featless move which has killed a total of one being who has also no durability

Your evidence of AC Sephiroth having no durability? None? K.

Lich King
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Hmm, then maybe K'J vs. Sephiroth?

Basing on what I know of Sephiroth, he is not even in the league of city destroyers. Kil'Jaeden can destroy cities by simply slipping and falling on them, and he is more powerful than Archimonde who broke through a massive magical barrier and crumbled a major magical city in only a few moments from kilometers away. The entities in Final Fantasy are either too weak or too powerful for Kil'Jaeden.

Lich King
Originally posted by Terryc250
Your evidence of AC Sephiroth having no durability? None? K.

Your proof he is more endurant than other humans? None? K.

Terryc250
How about the fact that he's Jenova? The fact that Jenova survives the vacuums of space and crash lands on planets ontop of meteors (which normal humans cannot do) The fact that he's been stated the most powerful being in FF7 world, the fact that even his weak remnants can take giant TNT blasts and still be alive.

Now where's your evidence that AC Sephiroth has the same "endurant" of a regular human? Don't got any? K.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Terryc250
How about the fact that he's Jenova? The fact that Jenova survives the vacuums of space and crash lands on planets ontop of meteors (which normal humans cannot do) The fact that he's been stated the most powerful being in FF7 world, the fact that even his weak remnants can take giant TNT blasts and still be alive.

Now where's your evidence that AC Sephiroth has the same "endurant" of a regular human? Don't got any? K.

Do you believe he could take Kil'Jaeden?

Lich King
Originally posted by Terryc250
How about the fact that he's Jenova? The fact that Jenova survives the vacuums of space and crash lands on planets ontop of meteors (which normal humans cannot do) The fact that he's been stated the most powerful being in FF7 world, the fact that even his weak remnants can take giant TNT blasts and still be alive.

Now where's your evidence that AC Sephiroth has the same "endurant" of a regular human? Don't got any? K.

There is nothing to point to either him being more endurant or less endurant than a human. No matter what he is of, be it Jenova or a Chocobo, it is not sufficient proof to claim he is more endurant than he has appeared to be so far. Or I could just as well say that Kil'Jaeden is omnipotent since Sargeras granted him unlimited power.

Coming from Jenova does not make him all that Jenova is. He still looks like Sephiroth, and that makes it possible that the physical structure of Sephiroth has remained the same. You can not prove it has altered. You can only bring up the "Jenova" subject again, which is not proof. It is theory.


We could say like this if we like your theory: Varian Wrynn of Warcraft is claimed to inhabit the spirit of Lo'gosh. If this is true, then he is as endurant as a God. This can not be disproven since he has never taken any serious injuries. He might have the endurance of a God.

Terryc250
Originally posted by Lich King
There is nothing to point to either him being more endurant or less endurant than a human. No matter what he is of, be it Jenova or a Chocobo, it is not sufficient proof to claim he is more endurant than he has appeared to be so far. Or I could just as well say that Kil'Jaeden is omnipotent since Sargeras granted him unlimited power.
Did you even read what i said? I said he IS Jenova, not Jenova gives him power, he is the entity itself.


Once again, i said he IS Jenova, he is the entity itself. None of this is theory, it's FACT. Everything i've stated is fact. Sephiroth is Jenova, he's the entity itself.

Your confusing fact from theory. The things i've stated are not "theory" they are fact. All of Jenova's powers are Sephiroths, everything Jenova has done in the game, AC, was just Sephiroth taking advantage of Jenova's powers, Sephiroth lost his human body along time ago and he is using Jenovas

ArtificialGlory
So do you think he could take Kil'jaeden? With being this Jenova thing and all.

Lich King
Originally posted by Terryc250
Did you even read what i said? I said he IS Jenova, not Jenova gives him power, he is the entity itself.


Once again, i said he IS Jenova, he is the entity itself. None of this is theory, it's FACT. Everything i've stated is fact. Sephiroth is Jenova, he's the entity itself.

Your confusing fact from theory. The things i've stated are not "theory" they are fact.

Jenova and Sephiroth are two seperate entities. If they are one in AC it is still not proof enough. Sargeras, the most powerful entity in the universe and night indestructable was one with Medivh, a magician, and yet Medivh was defeated by a single blade through his chest.

Terryc250
Umm no they aren't, Sephiroth became the entity Jenova was after Sephiroth lost his body.

From the Reunion Files:

Sephiroth, the New Evolution of Jenova:

Sephiroth became the newest stage of evolution for Jenova, and anything "Jenova" does in the game's present day is simply Sephiroth invoking his new powers ("the will of Jenova as a human is the result of it channeling Sephiroth's spirit". When Sephiroth came into the picture, the minds of the two joined, and Sephiroth made himself the core of the viral entity that Jenova was, with his ambitions being fueled by its parasitic instincts and his desire to destroy all the humans he despised. Thus, his will manifested through Jenova's extensive psionic powers. "


Sephiroth has always been using Jenovas body shapeshifting into his image.

Or how about the fact that Jenova cells always come back together?

From the UOG:

Due to its amazing regeneration capabilities, Jenova's divided cells reunite
to become one again.


So now where's your evidence Sephiroth is like a regular human?

Burning thought
Originally posted by Terryc250
Your evidence of AC Sephiroth having no durability? None? K.

lol your still the bad debator as usual, thats a negative, its like me asking to prove an attack from my character wouldnt kill Sephiroth, you simply use the highest feat, since Sephiroth doesnt have any real durability feats, his durability is pathetic like most of the Sephiroth beings, infact its pretty much human durability.

Terryc250
Bad debator? Because you're stating something baseless like saying he has durability of a regular human when he's clearly not one? You think he has all those powers and stated the most powerful being, and having Jenova's body, yet somehow he has the durability of a regular human? We all know who the bad debator is(you). You posting evidence is almost unheard of on this board. Yet almost everytime i post, i can back it up with logic and evidence.

Burning thought
What is his highest durability feat, more speciifcally what is AC sephiroths highest feat? and no, everyone knows you are the bad debator, you cough up assumptions and theories about your sephiroth rather than the real canon version all the time, then try and toss it in peoples faces. "zomg sephiorth has neg lifesream and therefore has tonnes of spellz he never uses!"



lie

ArtificialGlory
You guys are straying a liiiiiittle bit away from our topic here.

Again: Kil'jaeden vs Cloud, Sephiroth.

Burning thought
Killy easily

Terryc250
Originally posted by Burning thought
What is his highest durability feat, more speciifcally what is AC sephiroths highest feat? and no, everyone knows you are the bad debator, you cough up assumptions and theories about your sephiroth rather than the real canon version all the time, then try and toss it in peoples faces. "zomg sephiorth has neg lifesream and therefore has tonnes of spellz he never uses!"
AC Sephiroth was on screen for 10 minutes and was defeated by an unknown attack. So his durability is "unknown". Yet your anti-sephiroth mind goes against logic and assumes "zomg he must have the durability of a regular human!!!11" when obviously nothing about him is human.

Sephiroths feats?

Infecting the lifestream
Creating a plague
Holding back a power capable of wrecking the planet
Taking over the Jenova entity
Resisting Death
Reforming his body
Creating life

Those are just feats off the top of my head, now whats Kains feats?

Obviously by logic if Sephiroth controls the negative lifestream (the lifestream is the source of all the FF7 magic spells, Fact) and his weak remnants who have small control over it were able to use it as magic, then obviously by logic Sephiroth who created the negative lifestream and has complete control over it can use it as magic at its full potetntial. Thats logic, even a non-biased 8 year old can tell you that.


Not really, you post evidence like maybe once out of 50 posts.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Terryc250
AC Sephiroth was on screen for 10 minutes and was defeated by an unknown attack. So his durability is "unknown". Yet your anti-sephiroth mind goes against logic and assumes "zomg he must have the durability of a regular human!!!11" when obviously nothing about him is human.

Sephiroths feats?

Infecting the lifestream
Creating a plague
Holding back a power capable of wrecking the planet
Taking over the Jenova entity
Resisting Death
Reforming his body
Creating life

Those are just feats off the top of my head, now whats Kains feats?

Obviously by logic if Sephiroth controls the negative lifestream (the lifestream is the source of all the FF7 magic spells, Fact) and his weak remnants who have small control over it were able to use it as magic, then obviously by logic Sephiroth who created the negative lifestream and has complete control over it can use it as magic at its full potetntial. Thats logic, even a non-biased 8 year old can tell you that.


Not really, you post evidence like maybe once out of 50 posts.

So he has zero known resistance and it wasnt realy any more unkown than a sword slash from Dante in a cinematic, we know all it was, is many small blades from the main sword slashing Sephiroth extremely fast. And no it goes nothing against logic, not being human doesnt mean he doesnt have human durability, thats Sephiroth fanboy logic. All he is, is Jenova cells....hes likely softer than a human unless you can prove the cells are durable.

I asked for durability feats Terry, that much was obvious maybe even to Gumachi lol....it is in plain English...please dont dodge again...

No thats not logic, you still need materia to cast the other spells, its obvious that the Negative lifestream only more likely has access to those shadow beings, other than that, the trio requiered other materia to use other spells. That is far clearer logic, yours is full of assumption, mine is straight logic thats been shown.



baseless lie....most of my evidence is in one or two pages which I post frequently.

Terryc250
Originally posted by Burning thought
So he has zero known resistance and it wasnt realy any more unkown than a sword slash from Dante in a cinematic, we know all it was, is many small blades from the main sword slashing Sephiroth extremely fast. And no it goes nothing against logic, not being human doesnt mean he doesnt have human durability, thats Sephiroth fanboy logic. All he is, is Jenova cells....hes likely softer than a human unless you can prove the cells are durable.
Umm no, Clouds Omnislash V5 wasn't even physical, so it hardly just sword slashes. No i've told you already, he's Jenova. Jenova travelled planet to planet on a meteor crash landing into the planet, no human can survive that, the northern crator was even from Jenova. The cells multiply and reform, hence how Sephiroth reformed his body, hence how Sephiroth was reforming every body part of jenova in FF7 into his Sephiroth appearance.


I thought you were asking for AC Sephiroths highest feats, i ignored the first question because i thought you were smart enough to figure out that AC Sephiroth was only on-screen for 10 minutes and i've numerously told you that his durability is "unknown".

The trio don't have full power of the Negative Lifestream. Only Sephiroth is capable of using it's full power and cover the entire metropolis city of the planet in an instant. The trio needing materia to help them tap into the lifestream because they don't have full power over the NL makes complete sense yes. Where did i assume? I didn't at all. Sephiroth having full power over the NL is fact, he created it. The NL being a source of magic is fact. Put them together and THATS logic, Sephiroth being able to use the NL to its full power.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Terryc250
Umm no, Clouds Omnislash V5 wasn't even physical, so it hardly just sword slashes. No i've told you already, he's Jenova. Jenova travelled planet to planet on a meteor crash landing into the planet, no human can survive that, the northern crator was even from Jenova. The cells multiply and reform, hence how Sephiroth reformed his body, hence how Sephiroth was reforming every body part of jenova in FF7 into his Sephiroth appearance.


I thought you were asking for AC Sephiroths highest feats, i ignored the first question because i thought you were smart enough to figure out that AC Sephiroth was only on-screen for 10 minutes and i've numerously told you that his durability is "unknown".

The trio don't have full power of the Negative Lifestream. Only Sephiroth is capable of using it's full power and cover the entire metropolis city of the planet in an instant. The trio needing materia to help them tap into the lifestream because they don't have full power over the NL makes complete sense yes. Where did i assume? I didn't at all. Sephiroth having full power over the NL is fact, he created it. The NL being a source of magic is fact. Put them together and THATS logic, Sephiroth being able to use the NL to its full power.


Prove its not physical please. That was before it was defeated ofcourse....and that was in a diffrent form, unless you can show me it looking like Sephiroth when it lands. Sephiroth just has all its cells. THat doesnt mean his body has the same durability just because he has the same cells.

AKA, his durability is featless so you cannot use it to survive an attack

Can you prove they dont access the exact same magic sephiroth does? Sure they dont control the lifestream itself, but nothing can say whether they actually have the same magical access to its abilities as Sephiroth does.

Lich King
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
You guys are straying a liiiiiittle bit away from our topic here.

Again: Kil'jaeden vs Cloud, Sephiroth.

Kil'Jaeden. They are of very different leagues.

Here is merely the size of Kil'Jaeden (Lets not even begin discussing his unlimited power) and Kil'Jaeden can shapeshift to what size and form he desires:

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/wowwiki/images/e/eb/Kil%E2%80%99jaeden_and_Ner%E2%80%99zhul.jpg

ThunderGodEneru
Originally posted by Lich King
Your proof he is more endurant than other humans? None? K. Other than in his weakest form he took several exploding fireballs without so much as having his flowing hair singe?

Kiljaedan of course wins, but don't make such ignorant and baseless statements.

Terryc250
Originally posted by Burning thought
Prove its not physical please. That was before it was defeated ofcourse....and that was in a diffrent form, unless you can show me it looking like Sephiroth when it lands. Sephiroth just has all its cells. THat doesnt mean his body has the same durability just because he has the same cells.
Try watching this without your anti-sephiroth glasses on
5:50, he phases through Sephiroth multiple times, Sephiroth doesn't get a single phsyical wound cut or even tattered clothes, its blatantly obvious.
nbwiDIy-m2Y


It doesn't matter what form it's in, Jenova cells shapeshifts constantly. Even when Jenova first came to the planet she scanned the cetra's minds and shapeshifted into theforms of their ancestors.
AKA, his durability is featless so you cannot use it to survive an attack

It doesn't matter if it's just cells, or a body part, once Sephiroth induces its will in Jenova, he has all of her powers, Jenova regenerates from whatever form its in, back into its original, right from the Reunion Files:

One of the properties Jenova possesses is that separated pieces of flesh, called cells, will regenerate back to their original form - working toward the phenomenon of reunification. This is shown by instance(s) when both Jenova, who is practically close to immortal, and the son whom should be called Sephiroth, are resurrected sooner or later even after being destroyed.


Well thats basic logic and common sense, if you don't have full power over something, you cannot use it to its full potential compared to someone who does. Can the remnants create life with it? No, can the remnants summon it to cover the city? No.

Lich King
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Other than in his weakest form he took several exploding fireballs without so much as having his flowing hair singe?

Kiljaedan of course wins, but don't make such ignorant and baseless statements.

If he base his comments on AC, why can not I?

Burning thought
Originally posted by Terryc250
Try watching this without your anti-sephiroth glasses on
5:50, he phases through Sephiroth multiple times, Sephiroth doesn't get a single phsyical wound cut or even tattered clothes, its blatantly obvious.
nbwiDIy-m2Y


It doesn't matter what form it's in, Jenova cells shapeshifts constantly. Even when Jenova first came to the planet she scanned the cetra's minds and shapeshifted into theforms of their ancestors.
AKA, his durability is featless so you cannot use it to survive an attack

It doesn't matter if it's just cells, or a body part, once Sephiroth induces its will in Jenova, he has all of her powers, Jenova regenerates from whatever form its in, back into its original, right from the Reunion Files:

One of the properties Jenova possesses is that separated pieces of flesh, called cells, will regenerate back to their original form - working toward the phenomenon of reunification. This is shown by instance(s) when both Jenova, who is practically close to immortal, and the son whom should be called Sephiroth, are resurrected sooner or later even after being destroyed.


Well thats basic logic and common sense, if you don't have full power over something, you cannot use it to its full potential compared to someone who does. Can the remnants create life with it? No, can the remnants summon it to cover the city? No.

Does anyone get ripped to pieces in AC? no....nobody gets ripped up, for all you know its a film designers decision to not allow Sephiroth to end up into little pieces, hell in little pieces they would be cutting an important part out of the plot like when sephiroth says "I will never be a memory" (or something like that) . It could easily be a number of things why Sephiroth didnt suddenly fall into gory bits....

also what is the Age rating of the film? its not an 18...therefore a guy being ripped to bits by clouds attack would not be likely shown, the fact remains is the sword is physical, has been shown to be physical as well when slicing objects. The likeliness that Cloud randomly made each of the pieces of his sword into spirit blades is unlikely, the likliness Fanboys are going to assume and invent unlikely circumstances to allow Sephiroth some durability is high.


CAN YOU PROVE they dont have the same magical connection, controlling something is diffrent from tapping into its power. Using materia doesnt allow the users to control the lifestream for instance.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Terryc250
Sephiroths feats?

Infecting the lifestream
Creating a plague
Holding back a power capable of wrecking the planet
Taking over the Jenova entity
Resisting Death
Reforming his body
Creating life

Those are just feats off the top of my head, now whats Kains feats?

Creating the Lich King.
Wielding powers far beyond planetary shattering, through the Paramount spells.
Bending the DreadLords to his will.
Working through a Illusion Kil'Jaeden summoned Mannaroth to Draenor, Last Time Mannaroth was brought into a world it toke the power of the Well of Eternity.
The mere Shadow aspect of Kil'Jaedens true form that was stopped at the sunwell was enough to doom the world.
Touched the minds of the entire Eredar Race when Velen Escaped.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Utrigita
Creating the Lich King.
Wielding powers far beyond planetary shattering, through the Paramount spells.
Bending the DreadLords to his will.
Working through a Illusion Kil'Jaeden summoned Mannaroth to Draenor, Last Time Mannaroth was brought into a world it toke the power of the Well of Eternity.
The mere Shadow aspect of Kil'Jaedens true form that was stopped at the sunwell was enough to doom the world.
Touched the minds of the entire Eredar Race when Velen Escaped.

I think he was talking about Kain, but yeah...

Utrigita
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
I think he was talking about Kain, but yeah...

How the hell did Kain get involved???

Lich King
Originally posted by Utrigita
The mere Shadow aspect of Kil'Jaedens true form that was stopped at the sunwell was enough to doom the world.

He was not even able to move. At that point he was also taking a sacrefical blast from the Sunwell itself (Anveena)

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Utrigita
How the hell did Kain get involved???

Hehe, who knows? I'm sure he said Kain, though :P.

Lich King
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Hehe, who knows? I'm sure he said Kain, though :P.

I believe it was merely a typo.

Terryc250
Originally posted by Burning thought
Does anyone get ripped to pieces in AC? no....nobody gets ripped up, for all you know its a film designers decision to not allow Sephiroth to end up into little pieces, hell in little pieces they would be cutting an important part out of the plot like when sephiroth says "I will never be a memory" (or something like that) . It could easily be a number of things why Sephiroth didnt suddenly fall into gory bits....
No one does get ripped to pieces in AC, because well, it never happened to anyone. That's a baseless assumption. Cloud CLEARLY goes right through Sephiroth multiple times, you can ask anyone who isn't as biased as you and they would agree with me.


No, infact if it was physical, Sephiroths cells would reform back together. Any anyone besides you on this board can clearly see it's not physical.


.. Sephiroth has 100% complete power over the negative lifestream, he was even capable of transforming the entire planet with it. Creating life with it, manipulating it as he chooses. The purpose of materia is to aid a person into tapping into it's power, obviously the trio who have limited control over the lifestream is not capable of using it as the original creator and master of the NL itself, that's why they were using materia as well. Common sense/Logic tells us Sephiroth who can use it to it's full potential can use its magic abilities to it's full extent too, the trio can't create life, the trio cannot alter the planet, summon or manipulate it, at the level Sephiroth can, so logically the trio cannot use it's magic capablilities at the level Sephiroth can.

Burning thought
no we can all see the sword is physical in the film, your the one guessing it suddenly went spiritual not me, everything ive said about it is fact. The age rating of the film would not allow a character to be ripped to pieces and its also fact, the developers merely chose it to be that way, there is nothing stating any spiritual happenings of the sort apart from you.

no no no, no common sense or logic points to Sephiroth being able to tap into its magical potential just because he can actually move the thing itself, the fact remains that the Jenova cells inside give him the ability to move it, if they were not there, he could not, nothing states the cells also allow him access to the power of the magic. There is no logic, merely assumption and guesswork.

Terryc250
Originally posted by Burning thought
no we can all see the sword is physical in the film, your the one guessing it suddenly went spiritual not me, everything ive said about it is fact. The age rating of the film would not allow a character to be ripped to pieces and its also fact, the developers merely chose it to be that way, there is nothing stating any spiritual happenings of the sort apart from you.

When he's normally sword fighting with it, obviously when he used Omnislash the sword changed as it started glowing with golden aurora, and even 4 spiritual Clouds formed, are you saying they are physical as well?

No, Jenova cells influence its powers. Sephiroth has proven to beable to use it's powers, how else would he use it as a source of life? How else would he be able to transform the entire planet? Logically he can use it as a source of magic as well, since even his remnants who control a small portion of it were even able to.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Terryc250
When he's normally sword fighting with it, obviously when he used Omnislash the sword changed as it started glowing with golden aurora, and even 4 spiritual Clouds formed, are you saying they are physical as well?

No, Jenova cells influence its powers. Sephiroth has proven to beable to use it's powers, how else would he use it as a source of life? How else would he be able to transform the entire planet? Logically he can use it as a source of magic as well, since even his remnants who control a small portion of it were even able to.

show me,I dont remember seeing 4 clouds forming....


When did he transform the entire planet? what states he has done so? perhaps his plan was flawed and impossible, he never succeeded so we dont know. His remnants have shown to be able to call forth shadow creep things...thats it....for all you know thats all their capable of doing, same with sephiroth.

Terryc250
Dude i've posted the video like 5 times, go back and watch it.

He said it before the fight that the geotigma was infecting the planet, which is the cause of the Negative Lifestream, and that he was going to turn the planet into his vessel and soar the cosmos. No, the shadow creeps is a spell, Lifestream isn't "spells" its the SOURCE of magic. Its not just a bunch of spells. The remnants hardly have any power over the negative lifestream, Sephiroth has complete control over it, thats why he's able to do things like create life. Magic source, life source, power, thats what the lifestream is capable of, Sephiroth obviously can use it to a higher degree then the remnants.

Burning thought
Statements doesnt mean he can actually do it though, or that he would certainly be successful.

They dont look like spirit clouds to me, looks like typical speed blurring like you see in most films, anime, gaming etc...

Hes only shown to be able to move it, that doesnt mean he can access more magic from it than them, just because ime a better mechanic than my dad, doesnt mean he doesnt have a single trick that is equel to mine....same with remnants, we dont know, but its just as likely that they do have the same connection (and from evidence, a greater connection) to summoning creeps/magic from the Neg lifestream.

Terryc250
He said as his mother once did long ago, meaning Jenova is capable of doing it, the creators wouldn't have him say it if he wasn't capable of doing it.

And they are more then 1 Cloud, as you can see, one goes through the front, the other goes through the back, one from the top,etc one after the other.

Then why can he use it to transform the planet and the remnants can't? Why can he cover midgar with it and the remnants can't? Why can he create life and the remnants can't? Simple, Sephiroth has more power over the neg lifestream then them. Obviously logically he can access its magic source more then the remnants as well.

Burning thought
Originally posted by Terryc250
He said as his mother once did long ago, meaning Jenova is capable of doing it, the creators wouldn't have him say it if he wasn't capable of doing it.

And they are more then 1 Cloud, as you can see, one goes through the front, the other goes through the back, one from the top,etc one after the other.

Then why can he use it to transform the planet and the remnants can't? Why can he cover midgar with it and the remnants can't? Why can he create life and the remnants can't? Simple, Sephiroth has more power over the neg lifestream then them. Obviously logically he can access its magic source more then the remnants as well.

Why? many a villain says they are going to do something, that doesnt necesserily mean that they can.

So? did you watch the DMC vid Gumachi posted of Dante smashes the rocks, at the beginning when he wielded his gauntlets? they move so quickly they look like many blurs of one hand....the same is with this and if ime correct, you did say the attack happens in the blink of an eye or very quickly, which gives more evidence that their speed blurs, further evidence is that they no longer excist as soon as Cloud stops moving.

Show me when he actually creates the remnants please, actually creating them. And no, he has more power over the Jenova cells than they do, allowimg him to move the body of the thing. He does similiar with his willpower against Holy, that doesnt mean he can use its magic or any other object. no thats still a guess, even with more control over its form, its still no logic suggesing he can gain more magic and in any case, an unknown amount so saying "he has millionz of spellz through neg lifestreams!" is not a credible argument in a debate.

Terryc250
Originally posted by Burning thought
Why? many a villain says they are going to do something, that doesnt necesserily mean that they can.
Like? Creators don't have characters lie for no reason. Name a game where they had a character lie for no reason at all, go ahead try. There is none.


No, its totally different, Sephiroth got hit one after the other from different directions from each of the Clouds, and its CLEARLY going right through him, not just cutting him.


The remnants weren't created on screen, Sephiroth created them when he created the NL, it was stated Sephiroth manifested them as spirit bodies and dissappeared with the rest of the NL by Aeri's great gospel. Dude, the Remnants used their limited power of the NL as a SOURCE of magic, not as a spell. Lifestream is not SPELLS, its a SOURCE of magic, just like its a SOURCE of life, and a SOURCE of energy.

MadMel
Originally posted by Terryc250
Like? Creators don't have characters lie for no reason. Name a game where they had a character lie for no reason at all, go ahead try. There is none.
*cough*perfect cell*cough*



ok im done stick out tongue

Terryc250
What did Perfect Cell lie about?

MadMel
he claimed he could destroy the entire solar system with a single kamehameha...an impossible feat, since cell only went ssj 2, if that erm

Terryc250
I don't recall him stating he can destroy a solar system with a single kamehameha, I remember him saying he can destroy a solar system though

MadMel
you going by the manga or anime?

Utrigita
Originally posted by Lich King
He was not even able to move. At that point he was also taking a sacrefical blast from the Sunwell itself (Anveena)

An that alone didn't send him packing.

To get a idea of the level of the Sunwell it would be enough to say that Dar'Khan with that energy was said to become more powerful then the Lich King.

Terryc250
Originally posted by MadMel
you going by the manga or anime?
manga

MadMel
ah figures..i was going by the anime erm

ThunderGodEneru
He did state he can destroy a solar system, and different interpretations say different things, the one I think is official is that he gathered enough energy in his Kamehameha to destroy the Solar System.

Which is a ridiculous claim, considering years later, the vastly more powerful Goku and Vegeta were helpless in the face of Buu's planet busting attack, not to mention the result of Gohan's stronger Kamehameha which killed cell only formed a small character.

So yes, character's can lie.

Terryc250
There's also a difference between a plot statement, and just a statement that was thrown out there that could be exaggerated, if Sephiroth says his goal would be to transform the planet into his vessel like his mother did years ago, chances are he's not lying about that (the story plot is to stop him from doing that), it wouldn't make any sense if the story was to stop him from doing that if he couldn't do it in the first place.

MadMel
technically cell's claim was a plot statement, because the others didn't realize he'd been lying until after his death erm

MadMel
edit - k that was freaky erm

Terryc250
The statement had nothing to do with the plot no expression it was just a statement thrown out there.

A plot statement would be like Sephiroth claiming he was using meteor to inflict a wound in the planet, then in that wound he would absorb the lifestream. Do you really think he was lying about absorbing the lifestream? Chances are he wasn't, that's part of the plot, and part of the plot was Cloud and co. stopping him, they weren't just putting that in their for no reason.

ThunderGodEneru
Considering Sephiroth is more powerful than his mother, Jenova, who did the same thing, no he was not lying.

niduin
well the only reason i would say cloud would win is cuz of omnislash, even then they are on completely different realms, kiljeaden is way to powerful for him

Phanteros
Originally posted by niduin
well the only reason i would say cloud would win is cuz of omnislash, even then they are on completely different realms, kiljeaden is way to powerful for him even with omnislash he will still loose to kaljeaden

niduin
agree, just saying that that was his only chance

Burning thought
I wouldnt be surprised if his sword broke on the flesh of Kiljaeden, or on one of his shields and thats if Killy stood there laughing to himself randomly without fighting.

ArtificialGlory
Where did Terry go?

MadMel
dont tempt him stick out tongue

Slaanesh
Kil'jaeden stomp..

K1ll3r
None of you have proved any feats of strength for Kil'Jaeden, whereas when someone defends Cloud or Sephiroth Burning Thought comes in and says: SHOW ME SOURCELOL.

So. Show me legit sources saying Kil'Jaeden can do anything you guys have stated.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by K1ll3r
None of you have proved any feats of strength for Kil'Jaeden, whereas when someone defends Cloud or Sephiroth Burning Thought comes in and says: SHOW ME SOURCELOL.

So. Show me legit sources saying Kil'Jaeden can do anything you guys have stated.

'Rise of the Horde' and 'Shadows & Light' are two very good sources. However, if you consider novels non-canon, then Kil'jaeden is pretty much ****ed.

K1ll3r
Rule no. 7 states that all non-game material is not canon unless specified by the Thread starter.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by K1ll3r
Rule no. 7 states that all non-game material is not canon unless specified by the Thread starter.

Well, when I started this thread, the rule stated that all non-game material is non-canon. I don't know if I can change it now.

K1ll3r
It is really up to you, you can specify for us so we can have a proper discussion \ debate.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by K1ll3r
It is really up to you, you can specify for us so we can have a proper discussion \ debate.

Hmm... since debating Kil'jaeden without the novels is like fighting with both your hands and legs tied behind your back, I allow the novels to be used in this thread.

K1ll3r
Just to clear this up is this a Cloud vs Kil'jaeden or a Sephiroth vs Kil'jaeden.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by K1ll3r
Just to clear this up is this a Cloud vs Kil'jaeden or a Sephiroth vs Kil'jaeden.

Both... kinda. Since everyone came to a consensus that Kil'jaeden would make a shish kebab out of Cloud, people started discussing Sephiroth too. There's also a Sephiroth vs Kil'jaeden thread somewhere down on the 1st or 2nd page.

K1ll3r
Originally posted by Burning thought
yh, a weak featless move which has killed a total of one being who has also no durability

It was named 'Super Ultimate War God Champion Slash' for a reason, it uses immensely powerful Spirit Energy brought on by Cloud being brought to his limits.

I believe that Kil'Jaeden would not withstand it.

Has Kil'jaeden ever shown to have had skin tougher then Clouds or Sephiroths blade? Or anyones blade?

None of you have stated his feats, or what he is capable of, someone should post what the books say about him.

@Lich King Sephiroth has Jenova cells, meaning he is more durable then average humans, he can take multiple Comet2 casts to the face with ease. Any human would not survive that.

Terryc250 is correct, Sephiroth IS Jenova. Or rather Sephiroth is Sephiroth + Jenova.

Someone said that Kil'jaeden could slip and destroy cities and that is why he would defeat Cloud, Cloud could slice up through him, or use Destruct and slice up through him (to get past any barrier).

ThunderGodEneru
I loled.

GTFO of my forum.

Kiljaedan, as overrated as he can be, would crush Cloud.

K1ll3r
I am merely playing Devils Advocate.

Your argument is invalid because it doesn't say why only that he can be overrated which does not help any arguement.

ArtificialGlory
If anything in Warcraft is overrated, it's the Dragon Aspects and the Lich King.

So what prevents Kil'jaeden from peeling Cloud like a banana with his telekinesis?

niduin
Originally posted by K1ll3r
None of you have proved any feats of strength for Kil'Jaeden, whereas when someone defends Cloud or Sephiroth Burning Thought comes in and says: SHOW ME SOURCELOL.

So. Show me legit sources saying Kil'Jaeden can do anything you guys have stated. well just the fact that he has been ranked above archimond in power, and the fact that archimond destroyed dollaron my writing in the sand makes me think that he is WAY more powerful that cloud, and that was just childs play for him. and here is your source http://www.wowwiki.com/Kil%27jaeden

Utrigita
Remember that only a massive explosion from the well of eternity killed Archimonde, while in the books only a Demi God was capable of "hurting" him with a stang that rocked literally rocked the earth.

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