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NEWS:-

Israeli air strikes kill more than 200 Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, medics say, as Israel targets Hamas militants with the heaviest raids on Gaza for decades.

Anyone else thinking Israel is a bit over the top with pretty much everything?

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Anyone else thinking Israel is a bit over the top with pretty much everything?

Not really...they're a tiny little country in the middle of an entire region with some 20+ countries that would like nothing better than to see them wiped off the face of the earth and have already been at war with Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Tunisia, Morocco and Algeria and are currently being faced off with Iran because of Ahmadinejad's incendiary comments 2 years ago.

they don't do anything by halves because if they did they'd be asking for trouble because they'd be showing weakness.

Does this mean they do some horrid shit?...unfortunately it does.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Anyone else thinking Israel is a bit over the top with pretty much everything? That's Gods chosen people for ya.

Its all Bullsh**t Israel is allowed to do what ever they want and U.N. or U.S. does nothing, Yet The Palestinians are evil because they dont want the Israelis to build walled Cities and put up road blocks on Palestinian land. The Arab country's get Punished for having weaponry that Israel is givin by us U.S.A. Poor little Israel. They Have a Zionist doctrine and a plan to take back all lands that Yah-weh gave them in the time of David 2,000 years ago. Its wrong what they get away with. Now that the U.S. has set a precedent on "Preemptive strikes", that gives them free reign to cause havoc on their neighbors who just want to preserve their own sovereignty.

I agree Israel are treated allowed to get away with "murder" in the true sense of the word. If it some Arab country, or "Axis of evil" country doing this, Nato would put sanctions in and maybe even do some bombing, after discussing it for a year of course.

Even some press and media outlets are biased in their reporting, some in subtle others in not so subtle ways.

The hard and worrying fact is that a country with superior advanced weapons, is killing civilians in a prison camp resembling the "escape from new york" scenario.

Maybe Israel is looking to expand again.


http://www.ifamericansknew.org/images/4maps.jpg

This whole situation is still one of the most emotive arguments against religion that I've ever heard.

The moral high ground is straight out the window for Israel as far as I see it, from the reaction. No bunch is more righteous than the other here with so much killing on both sides. If Israel is the poor persecuted little bundle of innocents that they make themselves out to be, then let them show us that they are taking the attack with no retaliation. The rest of us could then go "Oh shit... look! The Isrealis DO need our sympathy/help" with ease, having then had it shown to us in that "rest of the world" thing that Israel's enemies truly are 'the Bad guys'.

It seems that all Israel need are a few bottle rockets to go flying over before launching all weapons (made in the USA) and hell against folk literally and figuratively, whilst claiming to be the less powerful party.
Bombing the whole of a people for the acts of a few to this extent doesnt seem to be thinking on a very high ethical plane.
(you could say that against both sides, true..)

This'll go on forever while the afformentioned religious dispute and institutional genocidal mentality that are an extention of it on both sides are allowed to continue as they have done all this time.

'Move both parties to Australia and then nuke the gaff' might be the easiest way to solve it.... f**k this pissing contest.
Either of theirs god really need to simultaneously prove their existance right now and come down here and sort it out....

But in the abscence of that possibilty, get all people out and then level the place.

EDIT:Ooops double posted.

worst violence and killing in decades

related fact...UN envoy for the middle east...Tony Blair

clearly that was a great idea.

Absolutely.

Nice to see his career is still a shining success it always was.

To me it is only natural for Israel to strike back. With elections so close the Kadima party wants to reassure Israeli citizens that they will not shy away from dealing with threats and Hamas, whatever you consider them to be, is a threat. They go out of their way to attack civilians so when I read about members of Hamas getting killed I don't really shed any tears. Sadly plenty of innocent civilians in Gaza get caught in the middle and then you have the mess we have now.

In terms of moral high ground, I really don't think either side gives a damn. This is war, a conflict between two opposing forces who have been fighting each other for a very long time. The only way this conflict will end is until one side eradicates the other. Peace, in my opinion, is nothing more than a pipe dream.

I merely argue that they rather than taking 'an eye for an eye' ,the Israelis tend to take the eye, the head, the hands, the legs and yes, even the colon for just one eye. And they are helped to take it by the biggest power in the world.
(And even they, the U.S, seem to in this case be raising these same concerns themselves.)

Originally posted by Autokrat


In terms of moral high ground, I really don't think either side gives a damn. This is war, a conflict between two opposing forces who have been fighting each other for a very long time. The only way this conflict will end is until one side eradicates the other. Peace, in my opinion, is nothing more than a pipe dream.

Israel has only been a nation since 1947. So they have not been fighting a very long time. In fact Israel has not been a Nation for 2000 years. After WWII Allied powers sectioned of what is Modern day Israeli, and the country's that lost land didnt appreciate it. It was a doomed plan from the start. The Allied forces made promises to the Arab country's that they did not fallow through with. In retaliation they tried to take their land back,well land that was theirs for 2000 years since the fall of Israel and Judea. All you hear about is the suicide bombers from Palestine but just recently with the advent of Internet the truth is coming out. The Israelis are ruthless and will not stop until they get all the land That King David had conquered, They think "God wills it" and they are as Evil as Sadam Husein , Kim jung Il or any other Tyrannical state out there. The only reason Palestine uses suicide bombers is because they dont have a 1st World nation backing them with arms,Missiles,Tanks, Fighter Aircraft. So they do what they must. These people are not forced to do these things , they are patriots to their country, and Someone needs to check Israel because they are stiring a Hornets nest over there that will destabilize the world. Israel is going to start WWIII and they dont mind because its for-shadows the "end times" or Apocalypse if you will. Armageddon which is a derivative of Har-magedo an intersection between Israel, Palestine, Lebanon,and Syria if im not mistaken. They must be stopped.

Originally posted by Lycanthrope
Israel has only been a nation since 1947. So they have not been fighting a very long time. In fact Israel has not been a Nation for 2000 years. After WWII Allied powers sectioned of what is Modern day Israeli, and the country's that lost land didnt appreciate it. It was a doomed plan from the start. The Allied forces made promises to the Arab country's that they did not fallow through with. In retaliation they tried to take their land back,well land that was theirs for 2000 years since the fall of Israel and Judea. All you hear about is the suicide bombers from Palestine but just recently with the advent of Internet the truth is coming out. The Israelis are ruthless and will not stop until they get all the land That King David had conquered, They think "God wills it" and they are as Evil as Sadam Husein , Kim jung Il or any other Tyrannical state out there. The only reason Palestine uses suicide bombers is because they dont have a 1st World nation backing them with arms,Missiles,Tanks, Fighter Aircraft. So they do what they must. These people are not forced to do these things , they are patriots to their country, and Someone needs to check Israel because they are stiring a Hornets nest over there that will destabilize the world. Israel is going to start WWIII and they dont mind because its for-shadows the "end times" or Apocalypse if you will. Armageddon which is a derivative of Har-magedo an intersection between Israel, Palestine, Lebanon,and Syria if im not mistaken. They must be stopped.
Absolutely 100% AGREED.

Another fight where groups like Hamas depend on anti-Jew propaganda, they fire a few rounds, then hide their arsenals among the civilian population so Israel has no choice but to kill civilians while targeting the threat and then Hamas plays the "Israel is killing innocent people" game.

If Hamas really cared about the people they claim to fight for, they wouldn't use them as cannon fodder and use their deaths as a tool.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
I agree Israel are treated allowed to get away with "murder" in the true sense of the word. If it some Arab country, or "Axis of evil" country doing this, Nato would put sanctions in and maybe even do some bombing, after discussing it for a year of course.

Even some press and media outlets are biased in their reporting, some in subtle others in not so subtle ways.

The hard and worrying fact is that a country with superior advanced weapons, is killing civilians in a prison camp resembling the "escape from new york" scenario.

WTF, Saddam-Iraq killed more Arabs (Kurds and the like) while in power than Israel ever has and Nato and the UN did nothing except make empty "stop or else" remarks.

Israel has bent over backwards due to UN an U.S. pressure at times, given up land and what do they always get in return? Some militant-terrorist group like Hamas breaking the ceasefire, setting up sceanrios where Israel has to kill civilians in order to destroy the weapons being used against them and then playing the "we're the victims" game.

I just want to point out once again that if any other nation were in a similar position to Israel, they would have taken the west bank, the golan heights, and gaza 15 years ago and you would hear barely a peep out of anyone else in protest.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
I just want to point out once again that if any other nation were in a similar position to Israel, they would have taken the west bank, the golan heights, and gaza 15 years ago and you would hear barely a peep out of anyone else in protest.

If all the Jews were to magically vanish away and the Palestians moved throughout the land, they'd hold onto it for about 12 minutes. Jordan, Egypt and Syria would wipe then out as they spread in for more land/resources and no one would say a peep. The Palestians are little more than a sympathy-tool for the Arab countries that want Israel gone.

Israel isn't doing enough. Without American support the Arab world would butcher all 4 million Israelis. how's that for over the top? Everyone loves to paint Israel as soooooevil. But what about all the Palestinian "civilian" suicide bombers. Israel is only doing what it has to to survive.

And where has it gotten them...?

Something has to break the cycle of hate on both sides.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
And where has it gotten them...?

Something has to break the cycle of hate on both sides.

You're right, but if you're Israel and the otherside has a policy of "you need to die before there can be peace", what do you do?

Edit: If Hamas (and the like) threw away their arms and their anti-Israel Arab supporters stopped as well, there would be some level of peace in that region. If Israel threw away their weapons and America bailed out, holocaust 2.0 would reign.

Die?

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
Die?

Logically do.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
And where has it gotten them...?.

In that Israel still exists, that's probably what they think they've got out of it. That's a powerful argument for those living there.

Indeed its a noodle scratcher.

The first thing would be work harder on intelligence/infiltration groups, and take out those who perpentrate the attacks rather than just blanket knee jerk or sloppy attacks that create murdered-family anger issues/a sense of martyrdom in them from childhood.
(I know this is easier said than done, but as aims go...)

Then "divide the land 50/50 and ban all religion" isn't practical, in reality, but if we could I'd say 'go for it'.
Looking into the history of how we were combatting the IRA might be a good model....to learn from mistakes if anything...
Other than that, I have to hold my hands up and in surrender and say "send in Oprah".

Originally posted by Ushgarak
In that Israel still exists, that's probably what they think they've got out of it. That's a powerful argument for those living there.

Fair comment.

But the "Heavy handedness only fuels martyrdom" argument is surely a significant factor countering that argument to an extent...?

In any case... sod living there with all this going on constantly.

Well, your implication there is that if they didn't create the martyrdom there would not be the threat that they live under.

But that's rather a supposition. In their position, when confronted with the argument "Because of the military effort we have been making, we are still here and still alive," you might be able to come up with a theoretical situation where this was not so... but I sure as hell would not be willing to risk stopping the military effort in the hope it was true. Not when my life was on the line.

And that being the case, you can see why they get shirty with outsiders saying "Oh, why can't you all just embrace peace?" when it is not their existence that is going to end if it all goes wrong.

Very true. Idealogy is no bullet proof shield. For real.
And that is indeed the deepest investment a person could have.

I dont wish to give that impression.
I dont think for a minute that that'd happen, but it might disarm the propagandists recruiting on the Non-israeli side, and lessen one avenue for justifying attack, but Im aware of the Israeli situation with her enemies and no this wouldnt make them go away.

Also, the premise that Israel is just carpet bombing indiscriminately is erroneous, just more propaganda spread to make them look bad.

Israel has an extremely efficient intelligence capabilities, if they're bombing an apartment complex, it's because Hamas is using it as a weapons depot. Which works in Hamas' favor ultimately, because they spin it around and use the civilian deaths, the ones they ultimately cauesed to their own personal use.

Okay. Fair dos.
Well I wouldnt wanna be doing the scumbags work for them, so let me rephrase that in the interests of not wanting to accidentally do their bidding.
Not indiscriminately then... just sloppy maybe compared with intelligence lead ground attacks/raids.... without maybe so many civvy casualties.

(Acknowledged though that this is never gonna be entirely casualty free in a combatants-blended-in-to-the-public uniformless kind of war when bombing.)

If Israel rolled into Gaza full force, they'd be labeled as invaders trying to take land. Which Hamas would use as a call to rally Hizbullah in the North.

Kobyashi Maru.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Kobyashi Maru.

Exactly.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Kobyashi Maru.

Well said.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Kobyashi Maru.

Nonsense.

Originally posted by Robtard
WTF, Saddam-Iraq killed more Arabs (Kurds and the like) while in power than Israel ever has and Nato and the UN did nothing except make empty "stop or else" remarks.

Israel has bent over backwards due to UN an U.S. pressure at times, given up land and what do they always get in return? Some militant-terrorist group like Hamas breaking the ceasefire, setting up sceanrios where Israel has to kill civilians in order to destroy the weapons being used against them and then playing the "we're the victims" game.

Are you forgetting that Israel is building walled city's in Palestinian territory and putting up road blocks on Palestinian highways?. And The Fight with Hamas was over the Hamas Capturing an(ONE) Israeli soldier who was standing guard on a new road block on Lebanese soil? One guard is captured and the Israelis send in Gunships and F-16 and Kill 2,500 people and seize Lebanese Banks and their currency. I dont think you are very informed on what is going on over there. Furthermore the U.N. has only said the "Stop or else" BS with Israel as well.

Originally posted by Lycanthrope
Are you forgetting that Israel is building walled city's in Palestinian territory and putting up road blocks on Palestinian highways?. And The Fight with Hamas was over the Hamas Capturing an(ONE) Israeli soldier who was standing guard on a new road block on Lebanese soil? One guard is captured and the Israelis send in Gunships and F-16 and Kill 2,500 people and seize Lebanese Banks and their currency. I dont think you are very informed on what is going on over there. Furthermore the U.N. has only said the "Stop or else" BS with Israel as well.

I'd assume those walls are for protection, or are you not aware of the suicide bombings and whatnot that happens in Israel from Palestian dupes?

I guess those rockets fired into Israel are little more than confetti? The death toll is at around 350, so pulling out "2,500 deaths" out of your ass is just another anti-Israel rant.

The UN is useless, if that's what you're saying too, I agree.

Yeah, I'm obviously the uninformed one, that's why you're the one trying to pass nonsense as facts.

Originally posted by Robtard
I'd assume those walls are for protection, or are you not aware of the suicide bombings and whatnot that happens in Israel from Palestian dupes?

I guess those rockets fired into Israel are little more than confetti? The death toll is at around 350, so pulling out "2,500 deaths" out of your ass is just another anti-Israel rant.

The UN is useless, if that's what you're saying too, I agree.

Yeah, I'm obviously the uninformed one, that's why you're the one trying to pass nonsense as facts.

For one, you are right. The Walls of the cities are for protection. They would not be necessary but for the fact that they are IN PALESTINE.

Ok two: The death toll I spoke if was close to 2,500. This was In regards to the Invasion of Lebanon. I got this info from B.B.C. News and N.P.R.News. and other maybe not so reliable Internet sources but they all correlated.

Of course you are allowed to say what you want on here but it does not make it fact.(Me as well, I have to learn not to take being called a Liar personally) So you or anyone can believe me or not or research it but. Israel has been the Aggressor from the begging and they have an agenda to Conquer. I did a paper on it in school. I had the U.C.F. Data base to get info from ,i wish i still did, but i still have my report quoting and Israeli "Mayor" of one of the cities in OCCUPIED Palestine stating that "there are no Borders to them. God gave it to Joshua and David and we will have it once again" It is called the "Zionist Doctrine" Im sure you can look it up. I will bring up my old report.

Originally posted by Lycanthrope
For one, you are right. The Walls of the cities are for protection. They would not be necessary but for the fact that they are IN PALESTINE.

Ok two: The death toll I spoke if was close to 2,500. This was In regards to the Invasion of Lebanon. I got this info from B.B.C. News and N.P.R.News. and other maybe not so reliable Internet sources but they all correlated.

Of course you are allowed to say what you want on here but it does not make it fact.(Me as well, I have to learn not to take being called a Liar personally) So you or anyone can believe me or not or research it but. Israel has been the Aggressor from the begging and they have an agenda to Conquer. I did a paper on it in school. I had the U.C.F. Data base to get info from ,i wish i still did, but i still have my report quoting and Israeli "Mayor" of one of the cities in OCCUPIED Palestine stating that "there are no Borders to them. God gave it to Joshua and David and we will have it once again" It is called the "Zionist Doctrine" Im sure you can look it up. I will bring up my old report.

You do realize that Palestine is essentially in Israel and vice-versa? So the walls are on both sides, because that's what walls do, separate.

This war isn't against Lebanon/Hizbullah, this is an entirely different issue. What you're taking about is the 2006 Israel-Lebanon war, that had around 1,000 deaths; not 2,500 and it started when Hizbullah fired rockets into Israel as a diversion while another group of Hizbullah militants attacked an IDF patrol; they killed three IDF soldiers and kidnapped two, they didn't just kidnap one guy, as you previously stated.

Really now, you have stated nonsense and tried to pass it off as fact and you brought in other issues that don't pertain to this one. Gather some facts before you rant next time, okay?

Edit: I googled "Zionist Doctrine" for fun, even though I've heard it blabbered before by people like Ahmadinejad and other open Jew-haters. All I got was links to conspiracy sites. LoL.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
NEWS:-

Israeli air strikes kill more than 200 Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, medics say, as Israel targets Hamas militants with the heaviest raids on Gaza for decades.

Well, if they're targetting Hamas...then there is no such thing as over the top.

Picture a classroom....there are two kids. A small angry child that throws paper balls to the other kid in the classroom. Now the other kid is a friggin bulk of a child...so happens the bulkier kid gets up from his chair...walks up to the small angry child...punches him in the face...the angry child starts to cry....well, he ask for it.

Pick a fight with the bigger dog...well, you gonna get bitten...badly bitten.

Moral of the story...think before starting a fight with someone bigger.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Well, if they're targetting Hamas...then there is no such thing as over the top.

Picture a classroom....there are two kids. A small angry child that throws paper balls to the other kid in the classroom. Now the other kid is a friggin bulk of a child...so happens the bulkier kid gets up from his chair...walks up to the small angry child...punches him in the face...the angry child starts to cry....well, he ask for it.

Pick a fight with the bigger dog...well, you gonna get bitten...badly bitten.

Moral of the story...think before starting a fight with someone bigger.
But the small angry child can get the rest of the class to gang up on the big kid, if they can make it look like the big kid is a bully.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Nonsense.

A thought provoking and compelling critique, and a well constructed argument.

As far as I know the media didnt report the rockets into Israel, but the Israeli retaliation. How is that?

Nah I saw some on BBC news 24 last night.

They showed a rocket being fired and then it landing like 150 yrds from the news crew.

They followed up by showing that greenshit vision footage taken from a drone jet of like 7 or so guys on the Palestinian side loading a mortar or rocket launcher on the back of a pickup, the announcer saying that they were killed seconds later....


After that they switched back to the footage of the Israeli strikes occurring.

And they looked like big old explosions.

I meant the beginning; the first I heard on Sky News was on the 27 Dec. when they mentioned Israeli Air strikes on Gaza.

The coverage was mainly on the Paelistinian civilians being hit hard. They then mentioned retaliation due to Rocket launches.

How is that for coverage?

It was probably that the Israeli response was looking disproportional to the initial attacks from the outset...?

Just speculating...

Maybe, people wouldnt be so pissed off with Israel if medias mention the initial Hamas attacks FIRST.

i never liked the fact that the un just handed them a country...
or there xenophopic world view zionism.... i think majority of historical things that accurred to them was partially caused by their own actions and religious mentality..

Originally posted by GCG
Maybe, people wouldnt be so pissed off with Israel if medias mention the initial Hamas attacks FIRST.

I heard of that first yet it all still seems a bit heavy handed.

350 plus is what Im hearing for the Palistinian death toll.

You have to look at the context of relatively recent changes in the Gaza strip. It's only been 3 years since Israel withdrew thousands of settlers from Gaza which was an extremely unpopular move among their own people but was considered the 1st real step towards a state of Palestine being created. Since then there has been continual rocket attacks from areas where Israeli's had once lived.

There may have even been a chance for peace had Hamas not been elected to rule the Palestinians....then there was the abduction of Corporal Gilad Shalit which then led Israel to retatliate...which then less Hamas to launch over 1300 rockets into Israel over the next year.

and on and on it goes.

Is this thread strays any furhter into outright racism I will close. On a similar note, conspiracy talk belongs in the conspiracy area.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow


if anyone want to accuse me of being anti semitic i like to point out that i like and would marry.. natalie portman.



LMAO Its All Pink in the inside.

seriously if you open and take a course in religion of the world you will see historical facts of so called prosecution.. some of it was earned and at its worse was not but their has bn documented history for thousands of yrs of dangerous fundamentalist mentality... that has not changed in any way especially in that part of the world. i have never heard of a zion conspiracy..at it most basic fundamental core it is xenophopic and highly dangerous mentality to have..

what i do know about zion is the fundamental belief of all jews and their holy land that i have studied in my courses of the judeo religion.

I don't care how much you say you have 'studied' it, making blanket statements about all Jews wanting this or that which you make out to be some great evil thing is nothing short of pure bigoted prejudice and it will not be accepted or tolerated, ok? So cut it out.

Does anyone have anything progressive to say here? Because just spreading Jew-hate is not the damn point of the thread, this is a political issue.

Wild Shadow, I agree that religion in general is bad, not the Jews, not the Christians, etc.


Religion in general is bad.


There are good things, but through out the ages, it has been the tool of war and contentious conduct.






Originally posted by Ushgarak
Does anyone have anything progressive to say here? Because just spreading Jew-hate is not the damn point of the thread, this is a political issue.


How about I spread my "hate" all over your face?

You should could around more often to submit your political views into these threads. I agree that it's been a little slower lately, but it'd be nice to have your perspective sometimes.

you are right it is not all jews. i did not mean to make such a blanketed statement..saying the religion plays no part of the political issue and their war is very inacurrate.. especially in that part of the world. they are fighting over the holy land..

calling me or my statement antisemitic because i view things differently from you is a very inacurrate description of me..

i have bn over in that part of the world and have taken crash courses in the religion and cultures and history of that part of the world.. before i am released into their country..

that is putting aside the college courses i took in order to understand the political upheavel and cultural believes when i was their on my own time.

especially when i tell my men to be respectful of the ppl and the culture and not make racist comments of the ppl..i dont feel that i am anti semitic in any way..


but i do apologize if i offended anyone

The UN- on behalf of the free world- put Israel in place to try and solve the enormous problems that the whole Jewish thing had been causing throughout history- and regardless of the issues now, at least it meant that there was now actually a Jewish country, which gave them a voice in the world they had lacked before.

Regardless of whether you think that was a good idea or not... it's a decision we are stuck with. The UN was acting pretty much on behalf of nearly everyone who posts here, and did it in a "We'll set this up, you go there, we say it is ok and it will be fine." fashion That done, it is therefore the UN's responsibility to live up to that... more or less forever. To do otherwise, to abandon them in any way, would be a terrible crime, the worst of all possible options. Yes, it sucks for someone no matter how we do it, but there is nothing- literally nothing at all- that can be done to prevent that. So the only practical option is to back Israel. The UN gave them the rights to the land, that is more or less it.

Yes, religion is damn annoying, and it is annoying when anyone claims hegemony over somewhere on religious grounds- but that's entirely irrelevant., They didn't take it on religious grounds, they were GIVEN it on political/historical ones as part of the world order after WWII. And, again, no matter what you think, the UN is the only body that actually had the power and the right to do that.

Which is not to say that Israel should be infinitely tolerated or all it does should be approved of, but in the end, they are the ones to back in the matter of whose land it is, I find it very hard indeed to deny them the right to defend themselves in the face of such massive provocation and heads of state- from countries with FAR worse records than Israel- tsaying that Israel should no longer exist. And the sad fact is that defending yourself in such circumstances requires aggression, and aggresison requires death. It's a shitty situation but there is no other way.

In the end, the majority of those that want Israel destroyed want it on grounds of hate. Religiously inpsired hate in most cases, grudges they cannot drop in others, but hate nonetheless and it would be a disaster for the remainder of history if that hate was allowed to destroy Israel, especially after the promises made to them that it would be their safe haven.

And yes, the safe haven happens to be in the area that they have historical ties to, hence this resulting conspiracy nonsense that this was some sort of Zionist plot- it's not, it's just a common sense coming together of history and politics. Talk of Zionist conspiracy is precisely what the Nazis used in their justifications; disturbing to hear it still spoken of.

Btw, I seem to remember it being earlier stated that other people had older ties to the region. Aside from me really not caring about who was there first- as I say, this is political in nature- that's... just not true.

So. In this situation- sorry. A ceasefire was agreed long ago, and Hamas, which is a hideous facade of democracy actually just perpetuating... evil, basically, has been sanctioning the firing of rockets into Israel all the way through it. My patience would have been exhausted with that long before now. I cannot find any reason to decry Israel's actions here specifically, and for the reasons I give above I cannot condemn them in the wider historical context either.

There, thats my perspective.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
you are right it is not all jews. i did not mean to make such a blanketed statement..saying the religion plays no part of the political issue and their war is very inacurrate.. especially in that part of the world. they are fighting over the holy land..

calling me or my statement antisemitic because i view things differently from you is a very inacurrate description of me..

i have bn over in that part of the world and have taken crash courses in the religion and cultures and history of that part of the world.. before i am released into their country..

that is putting aside the college courses i took in order to understand the political upheavel and cultural believes when i was their on my own time.

especially when i tell my men to be respectful of the ppl and the culture and not make racist comments of the ppl..i dont feel that i am anti semitic in any way..


but i do apologize if i offended anyone

I didn't actually use the term 'anti-semetic'; I think bigotry summed it up quite well. And if it is inaccurate- that is your fault for posting inaccurately, isn't it?

If it was just a mistake and you misrepresented your own views, then fair enough- but be careful, you are treading on dangerous ground.

This is just my opinion, but the Jew-haters in here should be allowed to hate on Jews, what I can't stand is them trying to pass erroneous idiocy as fact, as they have.

In many ways I'd like to be able to act on a "let people hang themsvles with their own rope" basis, but the fact of the matter is that that sort of thing always totally derails threads as it turns into a shouting match.

NOTE TO USHGARAK:
WHo said it was a conspiracy? YOU????


What does it matter what anyone says on this thread. What are you A NAZI ? Curtailing what people want to voice, right or wrong? It is not you place to do that. If someone was an outright bigot, racist,Jew hating War monger, they should have the right to say so.

YOu Sir, over step your authority. If you have something to say,as you did, then say it, other than that take heed to your own words.

Time to make another sock account, guy.

Originally posted by Robtard
Time to make another sock account, guy.

why are you leaving? what is that?

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
why are you leaving?

Stupid response.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
why are you leaving?

Let me help you with this: If someone ignores the repeated warning of a MOD, then that person can get themselves banned.

I find it hard to find sympathy for either of the sides in this conflict, though, that being said, I feel Israel has definitely caused more harm, though one might say that is solely because they are more efficient than their opposites. The losers of it all seem to be mostly poor, palestinian civilians...

Robtard and Wild Shadow. Be on topic or be out. Your choice.

Originally posted by Lycanthrope
NOTE TO USHGARAK:
WHo said it was a conspiracy? YOU????


What does it matter what anyone says on this thread. What are you A NAZI ? Curtailing what people want to voice, right or wrong? It is not you place to do that. If someone was an outright bigot, racist,Jew hating War monger, they should have the right to say so.

YOu Sir, over step your authority. If you have something to say,as you did, then say it, other than that take heed to your own words.

I think Ush has already been more than tolerant to you.

I, however, will not be too nice.





The discussion will now continue...

Originally posted by Bardock42
I find it hard to find sympathy for either of the sides in this conflict, though, that being said, I feel Israel has definitely caused more harm, though one might say that is solely because they are more efficient than their opposites. The losers of it all seem to be mostly poor, palestinian civilians...

If Hamas or Hizbullah had better weapons, they wouldn't hesitate to use them. They've made it very clear that Israel is to be destroyed.

You're right, the Palestian civilians are the ones who pay the most, their so called liberators used them as pawns and they're the ones who get caught in the crossfire when Israel retaliates.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
There, thats my perspective. And fairly on the mark, imo.

Originally posted by Robtard
If Hamas or Hizbullah had better weapons, they wouldn't hesitate to use them. They've made it very clear that Israel is to be destroyed.

You're right, the Palestian civilians are the ones who pay the most, their so called liberators used them as pawns and they're the ones who get caught in the crossfire when Israel retaliates. The Hamas wants their place back, and you are right they are assholes about it, but I get their point, now Israel, on the other hand, seem to be total dicks. And their reactions are what causes all the suffering in that region.

I agree with you mostly, I just don't think that painting Israel in such a positive light is in any way justified.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Robtard and Wild Shadow. Be on topic or be out. Your choice.



I think Ush has already been more than tolerant to you.

I, however, will not be too nice.




with all do respect i am tackling this debate from another angle and the cause of this tormoil....being threaten because my view seems to offend some one is not very democratic or seem to help the debating issue.. i would like to have something i said pointed out where it seems to be inappropriate for this debate please....


having said that the reason this is happening has much to do with what has already bn mention... religiously, historically and tribal cultural mentality.. where killing some member of a family will simply fuel the flame of hate for the next generation..... both sides need to come up with more reasonable ways of settling this... from harsher punishment and more active persuit of hamas members.


from what i learned about tribal mentality it must be conquered by force and fear pretty much how suddam hussein ruled... otherwise it is taken as weakness that will be taken advantage of,,,so on the one side i do believe strong show of force needs to be shown but it should be more carefully targeted... one single strong assault with massive death.. not this petty back and fourth bull..

to be perfectly honest this problem will never be resolved till one side is obliterated...

Originally posted by Bardock42
The Hamas wants their place back, and you are right they are assholes about it, but I get their point, now Israel, on the other hand, seem to be total dicks. And their reactions are what causes all the suffering in that region.

I agree with you mostly, I just don't think that painting Israel in such a positive light is in any way justified.

I don't paint Israel in such a positive light, I'm certain they've done and continue to do some ****ed-up shit themselves, but for the most part, when they're left alone, they leave alone and they're obliged to retaliate as hard as they can when provoked, if they didn't, they'd deemed weak.

Edit: Though in reality, they could retaliate a lot harder, they've shown they have the ability to take out several other countries in that area at once. They could level Palestine and Gaza, if they pleased. So it should be noted that they do indeed use restraint.

And who are you rooting for?

Originally posted by Robtard
I don't paint Israel in such a positive light, I'm certain they've done and continue to do some ****ed-up shit themselves, but for the most part, when they're left alone, they leave alone and they're obliged to retaliate as hard as they can when provoked, if they didn't, they'd deemed weak. They don't leave alone really though, do they.

As Bicnarok already posted

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/images/4maps.jpg

What are the people living in the worst conditions in those places to do?

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Robtard and Wild Shadow. Be on topic or be out. Your choice.



I think Ush has already been more than tolerant to you.

I, however, will not be too nice.




with all do respect i am tackling this debate from another angle and the cause of this tormoil....being threaten because my view seems to offend some one is not very democratic or seem to help the debating issue.. i would like to have something i said pointed out where it seems to be inappropriate for this debate please....


having said that the reason this is happening has much to do with what has already bn mention... religiously, historically and tribal cultural mentality.. where killing some member of a family will simply fuel the flame of hate for the next generation..... both sides need to come up with more reasonable ways of settling this... from harsher punishment and more active persuit of hamas members.


from what i learned about tribal mentality it must be conquered by force and fear pretty much how suddam hussein ruled... otherwise it is taken as weakness that will be taken advantage of,,,so on the one side i do believe strong show of force needs to be shown but it should be more carefully targeted... one single strong assault with massive death.. not this petty back and fourth bull..

to be perfectly honest this problem will never be resolved till one side is obliterated... hate to say this by i tend to go for the group whose home has bn invaded.. and believe that a small army can win against a large one using unconventional means

Could have at least fixed the quoting error.

But who do you think should obliterate who, or what should happen?

Also, you said something "all jews believe"...which is idiotic as Jews, like other humans, have their own opinions and don't all operate under one frame of mind.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Could have at least fixed the quoting error.

But who do you think should obliterate who, or what should happen?

Also, you said something "all jews believe"...which is idiotic as Jews, like other humans, have their own opinions and don't all operate under one frame of mind.


really meant the "jew" comment as the plural for the religion not the ppl and was talking about the fundamental religious followers..
the ones that run and throw molatov cocktails at a jewish christians house because they are christian and live in asreal

kinda like the fundamental christian type deal... who bomb abortion and preach certain hate..

i get really tired when ppl make it sound more then it is.. but again i apologize to ppl

What is your point again...I don't really understand what you are trying to say at all.

Can someone give a breif synopsis of what happened where the UN handed this land over cause I'm not completely sure how it happened.

I wonder how McCain would've commented on this situation had he been elected president. Obama was talking about both sides coming to realize that lives are being lost and finding a way to end the conflict on a secular basis (unlikely).

I never understand how this crap begins anyway in that region. Religious fundamentalism just seems like a scapegoat cause that's how most conflicts in the Middle East are generally explained in the mainstream media.

Originally posted by chithappens
Can someone give a breif synopsis of what happened where the UN handed this land over cause I'm not completely sure how it happened.

I wonder how McCain would've commented on this situation had he been elected president. Obama was talking about both sides coming to realize that lives are being lost and finding a way to end the conflict on a secular basis (unlikely).

I never understand how this crap begins anyway in that region. Religious fundamentalism just seems like a scapegoat cause that's how most conflicts in the Middle East are generally explained in the mainstream media.


In short, the Brits gave up control and created a separate Arab and Jewish state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_UN_Partition_Plan

Originally posted by Bardock42
They don't leave alone really though, do they.

As Bicnarok already posted

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/images/4maps.jpg

What are the people living in the worst conditions in those places to do?

That map is from ifamericaknew.com, an anti-Jewish(or Israel site), so take it with a grain of salt.

Look up the history of Judea and the Kingdom of Israel, the Jews have been in that region a VERY long time. So saying "Israel stole it", isn't really factually true. It would be like the U.S. government accusing the native American Indians of "stealing", if they showhow were about to take America back for themselves.

Originally posted by Bardock42
What is your point again...I don't really understand what you are trying to say at all.


my point is that their are jewish fundamentalist ideas that believe that the entire land is theirs and are destined to have it...

then you have ppl who have lived their for thousands of yrs having it all taken away... also has fundamentalist ideas on how to handle said problem...



my top statement does not encompass the views of every isreali person. just those who are fundamentalist and have religions views of land expansion by right of divine inheritence....

i support the surrounding nations who have had their lands taken away... to get it back by whatever means they are capable of..

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
my point is that their are jewish fundamentalist ideas that believe that the entire land is theirs and are destined to have it...


If your point is that they're are some crazy ****ing Jews who think Israel belongs solely to them because of God's decree, then you're right, I've been to Israel and I've personally seen those crazy ****ing Jews. The Israeli government often butts head with them, they won't serve in the military, but they want everything done their way.

On that note, there are some crazy ****ing Muslims, Christians, Hindus etc., who all have some concept of self entitlement because of said religion.

Originally posted by Robtard
That map is from ifamericaknew.com, an anti-Jewish(or Israel site), so take it with a grain of salt.

Look up the history of Judea and the Kingdom of Israel, the Jews have been in that region a VERY long time. So saying "Israel stole it", isn't really factually true. It would be like the U.S. government accusing the native American Indians of "stealing", if they showhow were about to take America back for themselves. And they haven't been in that region for just as long. Yes they were there 2000 years ago, but that's no reason to take away land from the people that had it for the 2000 years in between.

It wasn't the best solution, really. But it wasn't horrible either, but Israel did indeed expand far beyond what they were given and made Palestinians live in shitty ghettos on the outskirts of Israel.

Religion does not need require any secular (obviously) reasoning, it just is. The problem is that they will butt heads until one figures they can't win or they are exterminated UNLESS they are instigating a fight for a political reason unforeseen to this point.

Originally posted by Bardock42
but Israel did indeed expand far beyond what they were given and made Palestinians live in shitty ghettos on the outskirts of Israel.

That's why I've been confused - seeing the maps and then looking over than Wiki link leads me to believe that Isarel is more of an aggressor than is being portrayed. But my knowledge on this region is poor at best.

Originally posted by Robtard
If your point is that they're are some crazy ****ing Jews who think Israel belongs solely to them because of God's decree, then you're right, I've been to Israel and I've personally seen those crazy ****ing Jews. The Israeli government often butts head with them, they won't serve in the military, but they want everything done their way.


seen same said crazies throw molatov coctails at a jewish christian home and chant in hebrew of killing unbelievers and should b stoned to death,,, just because they are christian

On that note, there are some crazy ****ing Muslims, Christians, Hindus etc., who all have some concept of self entitlement because of said religion.

true they are both extreme on both sides and neither can survive together in the old days one side would be exterminated... but sadly you cant do that no more with the world watching the most basic concept of victory is no longer viable...

They did vastly expand, that is a fact.

They did it after being attacked first, admittedly, but whether that might be a bit like retaliating on someone spitting in your face by raping and killing his whole family in front of his eyes then force feed them to him before beating him up and raping him, too...is debatable, I guess.

Originally posted by Mindship
And fairly on the mark, imo.


Agreed. This is why I was interested in his perspective.

Originally posted by Bardock42
They did vastly expand, that is a fact.

They did it after being attacked first, admittedly, but whether that might be a bit like retaliating on someone spitting in your face by raping and killing his whole family in front of his eyes then force feed them to him before beating him up and raping him, too...is debatable, I guess.

The UN should have been keeping tabs on that because there is no reason to allow expansion even if they were attacked first. The UN is ****ing useless. Have they ever enforced anything successfully?

Originally posted by Robtard
If your point is that they're are some crazy ****ing Jews who think Israel belongs solely to them because of God's decree, then you're right, I've been to Israel and I've personally seen those crazy ****ing Jews. The Israeli government often butts head with them, they won't serve in the military, but they want everything done their way.

On that note, there are some crazy ****ing Muslims, Christians, Hindus etc., who all have some concept of self entitlement because of said religion.

Yep its that selection of loons that I have had issues with before.

Its a shame that the populations at large are always dominated and bound to fates by the actions of the radical few.

Have these idiots never seem STII:TWOK..?
You know, "The needs of the many outweighing the news of the few...or the one (loon)" etc...?

If religious clowns were to acquire the flawless logic of Spock, they'd immediately cease to be religious clowns, logically.

I like how we're trying to pin this conflict on religion...

If they hadn't been religious the problems would still exist- case in point, Scotland/England.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
I like how we're trying to pin this conflict on religion...

If they hadn't been religious the problems would still exist- case in point, Scotland/England. You think if all the Jews were Muslims the same stuff would have happened?

S-seriously?

Originally posted by Bardock42
You think if all the Jews were Muslims the same stuff would have happened?

S-seriously?

Perhaps not on the scale, but the problems would still exist and conflict would be there- religion is used to encourage the flames but it is not the fuel.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Perhaps not on the scale, but the problems would still exist and conflict would be there- religion is used to encourage the flames but it is not the fuel.

I'd say it's definitely fuel. Whether it's the spark...dunno, it could very well be. But there's obviously other reasons, too.

it seems to me that this conflict is over land.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
I like how we're trying to pin this conflict on religion...

If they hadn't been religious the problems would still exist- case in point, Scotland/England.

If that was directed at me, no, I'm not actually. Religion is a major aspect of it though, we're talking about the "Holy Land", after all.

More to your issue though, is it the religions fault or how those who wage war use it to their ends? I can go on a Holy Crusade and kill all the Muslims that run the mini-mart down the street and do it in the name of Christ. Does that mean Christianity is to blame for my murderous spree? No.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I'd say it's definitely fuel. Whether it's the spark...dunno, it could very well be. But there's obviously other reasons, too.

Your right it is the fuel, I got my analogy all wrong- its used to fuel the flames, but it didn't cause them- I think the conflict over land and the racial displacement of an entire people is what caused the trouble here.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Your right it is the fuel, I got my analogy all wrong- its used to fuel the flames, but it didn't cause them- I think the conflict over land and the racial displacement of an entire people is what caused the trouble here.

Yeah, I agree.

i think the whole scenario is that they are a very small country surrounded by very big countries who all want their heads on pikes. I really like how everyone doesn't mind it when suicide bombers kill hundreds on Israeli civilian streets but the instant Israelis make one slip-up and kill a few civilians everyone is down their back

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
i think the whole scenario is that they are a very small country surrounded by very big countries who all want their heads on pikes. I really like how everyone doesn't mind it when suicide bombers kill hundreds on Israeli civilian streets but the instant Israelis make one slip-up and kill a few civilians everyone is down their back ...yeah, the israeli deaths really far outweigh the plight of the palestinians in this conflict.

Originally posted by Bardock42
...yeah, the israeli deaths really far outweigh the plight of the palestinians in this conflict.


I know you're being sarcastic, but what you're implying kind of misses his point. He was referring to a double standard.

Whether or not I agree with his idea on the double standard doesn't matter, though. I am not quite sure if there really is a double standard. I see or hear about attacks and casualties from both sides of the conflict all the time. So I'm having a hard time seeing a double standard.

I don't see the difference between the Palestinian Suicide Bombers and the Israeli Troops in this conflict.

well the palestinian bomb attacks are so old news they have been happening forever. when it happens its like "oh, again?" but look, we have a 6 page thread on kmc about it the first time the israelis do anything and we are all in awe. :/ not like i'm taking sides, its not like the israelis have aligned themselves against the western world.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I know you're being sarcastic, but what you're implying kind of misses his point. He was referring to a double standard.

Whether or not I agree with his idea on the double standard doesn't matter, though. I am not quite sure if there really is a double standard. I see or hear about attacks and casualties from both sides of the conflict all the time. So I'm having a hard time seeing a double standard. But that double standard is actually the opposite of what he implies, and only because of blatant existence do people actually talk about palestinians more. If for every Israeli deaths Israel wouldn't turn around and kill a 100 Palestinians more people would focus on the suicide bombings ... not that they actually don't, most terrorists acts are reported and get attention, so I don't really think the hypocrisy he pretends exist, does exist. Especially, since way more Palestinians are in trouble, which, makes it just logical that the side that has more casulties gets more sympathy.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
well the palestinian bomb attacks are so old news they have been happening forever. when it happens its like "oh, again?" but look, we have a 6 page thread on kmc about it the first time the israelis do anything and we are all in awe. :/ not like i'm taking sides, its not like the israelis have aligned themselves against the western world. Are you joking, dumb as a stick, or have just discovered that there's something as "News" yesterday?

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/images/4maps.jpg

It'll be Al'white in a day or so.

Focus on death from the skies.

For the last six months:
Israeli deaths from airbourne missiles: 0.
Palestinean deaths from Airbourne missiles: Who's counting?

Missiles/shells to Israel landing in unoccupied plots of Israeli land.
Except for the odd one which rides a strong gust of wind to concuss a drunk jaywalker, hit a barn door, warehouse, Cornfield etc.

No one in Israel is dumb enough to build their house within range on a hillside facing the west bank. Water treatment facility, maybe. Shopping Mall? Hell No.

These attacks are really nuisance value/heckling than actual lethal warfare.
lets face it its not like these guys are packing cutting edge tech lol.

Those rockets can and do kill, old-tech or not. If Hamas had better weapons, they wouldn't hesitate to use them, or do you think they'd use restraint had they equal capabilities of the IDF?

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
I don't see the difference between the Palestinian Suicide Bombers and the Israeli Troops in this conflict.

Here's one:

The suicide bomber specifically targets civilians, i.e. buses, shops, malls etc.

The IDF soldier doesn't.

Originally posted by Robtard
Here's one:

The suicide bomber specifically targets civilians, i.e. buses, shops, malls etc.

The IDF soldier doesn't. I agree in that I dislike terrorism as a way of war, but it is sometimes the only possibility to contend. And, although they do target civilians, they still kill about 5-10 times less than the other side that does not target civilians.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I agree in that I dislike terrorism as a way of war, but it is sometimes the only possibility to contend. And, although they do target civilians, they still kill about 5-10 times less than the other side that does not target civilians.

Because they don't have the capabilities to do so, if Iran where to arm them with modern armaments, they'd use them without restraint.

The reason Israeli strikes kill so many civilians is because Hamas, Hizbullah and the like make sure they have no choice but to kill civilians while targeting the threats.

Here's a scenario: What if Israel when back to the 1940's land-scale, it gave up whatever land it had captured in subsequent wars and withdrew into itself. Do you think the suicide bombings and attacks would stop, or would those radical Islamic groups still stay true to their cause of wiping her off the map?

Originally posted by Robtard
Because they don't have the capabilities to do so, if Iran where to arm them with modern armaments, they'd use them without restraint.

The reason Israeli strikes kill so many civilians is because Hamas, Hizbullah and the like make sure they have no choice but to kill civilians while targeting the threats.

Here's a scenario: What if Israel when back to the 1940's land-scale, it gave up whatever land it had captured in subsequent wars and withdrew into itself. Do you think the suicide bombings and attacks would stop, or would those radical Islamic groups still stay true to their cause of wiping her off the map?

1) I don't see how that makes it better.

2) I still feel the blame is on both sides. The Hamas does try to disguise themselves as civilians, but that's understandable, as they'd otherwise be dead immediately...and it's not like Hamas starts everything and Israel are just the poor, reacting good guys...they stir their own amount of shit.

I don't know, I believe the problem is big because of the different Religion Israel has to the others in the Region, so there would be a problem...would it be as bad as it is now, i.e. would there be as much suffering, not sure...maybe not...anything could have happened there, really.

Originally posted by Bardock42
1) I don't see how that makes it better.

2) I still feel the blame is on both sides. The Hamas does try to disguise themselves as civilians, but that's understandable, as they'd otherwise be dead immediately...and it's not like Hamas starts everything and Israel are just the poor, reacting good guys...they stir their own amount of shit.

I don't know, I believe the problem is big because of the different Religion Israel has to the others in the Region, so there would be a problem...would it be as bad as it is now, i.e. would there be as much suffering, not sure...maybe not...anything could have happened there, really.

Because the consensus seems to be that Israel is the bastard for being the better armed combatant. When the flip-side is, if Israel's enemies where to become the better armed combatants, they wipe her off the map, if they could. While Israel hasn't done the same to her enemies, despite having the power/ability to do so.

I generally agree with you, though Israel seems to leave alone when left alone, more often than not.

To your edit. Religion is obviously an aspect of it, though Muslims do fight among themselves as, Shiite vs Sunni and whatnot, as an example.

I think there is only one solution. Force all inhabitants of the Holy Land to convert to Catholicism.

Any fundamentalist muslim that would support the live slaughter of a human being deserves what they get. If Hamas wants to house their "Rocket Launchers" with civilian families, then I guess innocent women and children will die. Anti Semitism is the only form of racism that is still openly endorsed in today's world, as is apparent by the overseas media coverage of this conflict, and PussyFrance's response.
To quote a wise man, ""If somebody was sending rockets into my house where my two daughters sleep at night, I'm going to do everything in my power to stop that."

So, Isreal's conducting a ground operation in the Gaza strip, right now. Opinions?

They should stop, and allow France to conduct peaceful negotiations whild they get bombarded by rockets. It's the civilized thing to do.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
I think there is only one solution. Force all inhabitants of the Holy Land to convert to Catholicism.

Agreed, should really add, "convert or be molested", though.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
So, Isreal's conducting a ground operation in the Gaza strip, right now. Opinions?

Whats the official purpose? If it's to go in and kill Hamas, good for them. Funny thing, the media will bash them for it too.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
So, Isreal's conducting a ground operation in the Gaza strip, right now. Opinions?

Urban warfare and both sides have been preparing for years for a day like this...I'm calling it now...Hamas is gonna a serious ass-whooping if they don't back down.

Originally posted by tsscls
Any fundamentalist muslim that would support the live slaughter of a human being deserves what they get. If Hamas wants to house their "Rocket Launchers" with civilian families, then I guess innocent women and children will die. Anti Semitism is the only form of racism that is still openly endorsed in today's world, as is apparent by the overseas media coverage of this conflict, and PussyFrance's response.
To quote a wise man, ""If somebody was sending rockets into my house where my two daughters sleep at night, I'm going to do everything in my power to stop that." I could not agree more. Oh, and around here, people will despise you for agreeing with me. i'm abnoxious and disliked. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYhjBcYnzvU&eurl=http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=obnoxious%20and%20disliked&gbv=2&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iv

Israel uses "antisemitism" to hide behind so they can take back what they think, in their arrogance, is their land promised by Yah-Weh. This is Fact. It has been stated by Israeli leadership. Palestine fights with what they have which is nothing. In the American Revolution we were called terrorist because we hid behind trees and shot British Officers. Its the same. Israel gets to destroy with no repercussion. Yet Palestine is Villainized for using what they can to defend their Country. Israel deserves nothing. The have not been a Nation in 2000 years. In 1947 The Allied forces partitioned the Arab Nations and Gave a chunk to the "Displaced" Jews. It kills me , Israelis are not a race of people that are hated, Jews are People who practice Judaism. It is completely a religious problem . The Israelis think the land is owed to them and will stop at nothing to get it back.

it is actually. they had it first. :/ its been theirs since BC.

Yeah, but you know, property rights do cease after a while. I think 1800 years is the standard ...and the Jews just missed it.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, but you know, property rights do cease after a while. I think 1800 years is the standard ...and the Jews just missed it.

AMEN LOL

and it was CANAANITE , And Moabites , Elamites and Amelikites Before Joshua the Jew Conquered it so, in reality, It was ARAB 1st LOL

hilarious......

Originally posted by Lycanthrope
and it was CANAANITE , And Moabites

Whcih both are Semitic in ethnicity, so...unless you want to say that the Jews/Hebrews aren't semitic, don't usee those cultures as an argument.



They were in Iran, not Israel so they're irrelevant.



And, finally, the Amelkites were in the Roman province of Arabia, not Judea, so again, irrelevant.

abraham isaac and jacob, all of the jewish forefathers lived in israel. The non-jew races are descendants of abraham's bastard son.

Originally posted by Lycanthrope
Israel uses "antisemitism" to hide behind so they can take back what they think, in their arrogance, is their land promised by Yah-Weh. This is Fact. It has been stated by Israeli leadership. Palestine fights with what they have which is nothing. In the American Revolution we were called terrorist because we hid behind trees and shot British Officers. Its the same. Israel gets to destroy with no repercussion. Yet Palestine is Villainized for using what they can to defend their Country. Israel deserves nothing. The have not been a Nation in 2000 years. In 1947 The Allied forces partitioned the Arab Nations and Gave a chunk to the "Displaced" Jews. It kills me , Israelis are not a race of people that are hated, Jews are People who practice Judaism. It is completely a religious problem . The Israelis think the land is owed to them and will stop at nothing to get it back.

Just go on and say "I hate Jews", it'll save you a lot of senseless typing.

Curious, what do you think the Palestians think of the land?

Israel killing terrorists..good for them.

Watching CNN it's funny to see the protesters in London.

Where are their bleeding hearts for the dead Israelis killed by Hamas rockets?

Or is that not cool and rebellious enough to protest about?

Odd that terrorist attacks on civilains doesn't get people wound up in the same fashion, no?

Because he's a paid crony to a few Jew hating Arab countries. He may also hate Jews too, but I think $$$ is the main factor.

Edit: I wish Israel wouldn't retaliate for a month after an attack and subsequent attacks, just to see what the world has to say over just Israeli civilains being killed.

terrorist attacks are bad as well, but you can kill more people with air strikes, artillery in urban areas etc.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
terrorist attacks are bad as well, but you can kill more people with air strikes, artillery in urban areas etc.

What if terrorists are hiding in urban areas?

Originally posted by KidRock
Israel killing terrorists..good for them.

Watching CNN it's funny to see the protesters in London.

Where are their bleeding hearts for the dead Israelis killed by Hamas rockets?

Or is that not cool and rebellious enough to protest about?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jan/01/israelandthepalestinians.international

In 2007 there were 13 Israelis killed 7 of them civilians
There were also 373 Palestinians killed 130 of them civilians and 53 of them were under 18

So, just looking at civilians in 2007, 18.5 times more were killed on Palestine's side.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/29/gaza-israel-attack

Really dude: "In total, Palestinian rockets fired from Gaza have killed around 18 people in southern Israel in the past eight years."


Cry me a ****ing river...in the last 8 years more people died from coconuts falling on a monkey who in turn got so angry he clawed down the next human he could find than from Hamas rockets. Proportion is important.

Yes, Israeli deaths are sad, but everyone mourns them and they get avenged twentyfold, so lets focus more on those on the shit side of the stick for a while.

Well, myself and- evidently- a lot of posters here blame hamas for creating that side of the stick so the sypmathy there is going to be low- especially as, as previously stated, that just seems to be knocking on Israel for being beter with their military, rathert than for any moral reason. I agree with the earlier stated comment that if the situation of arms was reversed, Israwl would face total annihilation, so in context their actions seem relatively light.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well, myself and- evidently- a lot of posters here blame hamas for creating that side of the stick so the sypmathy there is going to be low- especially as, as previously stated, that just seems to be knocking on Israel for being beter with their military, rathert than for any moral reason. I agree with the earlier stated comment that if the situation of arms was reversed, Israwl would face total annihilation, so in context their actions seem relatively light. I agree with that statement, I just don't think that it morally justifies the actions. (someone else would be worse, doesn't excuse anyone's behaviour, imo). But I don't think the sympathy is with Hamas, as KidRock makes it out. I believe the sympathy, at least mine, is with the civilian Palestinians, that already live in horrendous conditions...and, while I would say the Arab world, and Hamas in particular is initially to blame, I don't think that Israel is therefore blameless...and they have their share of shit-stirring.

So, I'd agree with an Israel bad, Hamas worse, Dead Israeli Civilians sad, Dead Palestinian Civilians sadder (because 20 times as many)...