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Apparently Cloud gets his ass pownded. How does Sephiroth hold up against Kil'jaeden?

Apparently Kil'jaeden is above planet busting, so he wins

Kil'jaeden isn't above planet busting.

Well i read this from the other thread
Originally posted by Utrigita
Wielding powers far beyond planetary shattering, through the Paramount spells

I say a meteor brings Kil'jaeden down.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Well i read this from the other thread

I have no idea where that person took that info from, but I know that Archimonde's paramount spell couldn't hold an overgrown stag pinned. Kil'jaeden is more powerful than Archimonde, yes, but not by a very big margin. Sargeras does the planet busting, not KJ or Archimonde.

PS: Kil'jaeden seems to be the flavor of the week!

Originally posted by Ultimate Wil
I say a meteor brings Kil'jaeden down.
Where would he get a meteor from? Unless he can use the NL to summon one, he isn't going to be using one which takes like a month to hit the planet anyway.

So what is Kil'jaeden's greatest powers and abilities?

Originally posted by Terryc250
Where would he get a meteor from? Unless he can use the NL to summon one, he isn't going to be using one which takes like a month to hit the planet anyway.

So what is Kil'jaeden's greatest powers and abilities?

That was only one test. For all we know, he can summon more than one in less than a month. Still say Seph though, to many abilities.

Originally posted by Terryc250 So what is Kil'jaeden's greatest powers and abilities?

Actually, Kil'jaeden's powers and abilities are barely ever directly mentioned, but they are widely inferred to.

Here:
"Kil'jaeden the Deceiver is a powerful eredar demon lord and is the acting leader of the Burning Legion. Selected twenty-five thousand years ago as the chief lieutenant of Sargeras, he was ranked above the now-deceased demon lord, Archimonde.W3Man 93 S&L 60, 154"

Then...
"<...>and his rank within the Legion and the eredar are listed as higher than Archimonde's. Even prior to the eredar's transformation, Velen acknowledged that Kil'jaeden was his, as well as Archimonde's, superior in matters of the arcane."

Leads us to...
"Preeminence in eredar warlock society depends almost entirely upon magical power. Those who command the greatest selection of paramount spells - and thus in theory the greatest magical arsenal - rise to higher ranks. Those whose arcane abilities top out at such pitiful cantrips as wish and shapechange are grunts and lackeys, scarcely worthy of notice."

So yeah, we can make a safe and a logical assumption that he can do what Archimonde can do, just on a grander scale and more...

(Those numbers are references to Warcraft books. I also bolded the important parts)

So we have 2 characters who's full powers are unknown, great. We don't know much about Sephiroth other then he's stated above everyone in the FF7 world including Chaos Vincent who could smack the planet quaking it and send ripples down the planet, Minerva who is the conciousness of the planets lifestream its self.

Originally posted by Ultimate Wil
That was only one test. For all we know, he can summon more than one in less than a month. Still say Seph though, to many abilities.
Huh? What was a test? You do know he needed the black materia to summon meteor in FF7 right?

Originally posted by Ultimate Wil
That was only one test. For all we know, he can summon more than one in less than a month. Still say Seph though, to many abilities.

I must admit that I don't know very much about FF characters... not very much at all, as a matter of fact. However, this Sephiroth would be forced to do a much, much better job than in that fight against Cloud(the video that Terryc linked in the other thread) if he would to have hope at even scratching Kil'Jaeden.

Seph could have killed Cloud if he wanted to, everyone knows that.

Originally posted by Ultimate Wil
Seph could have killed Cloud if he wanted to, everyone knows that.

Hehe, yeah, he should've just stabbed him through the heart instead of the shoulder. But they fought as equals for the major part.

(Pity I had no idea what they were talking about during the fight... all in Japanese or something)

In the Sephiroth vs Cloud video, Sephiroth didn't use any of his abilities or even exert himself in the fight.

But a few of his feats are:

Infecting the lifestream
Creating a plague
Holding back a power capable of wrecking the planet
Taking over the Jenova entity
Resisting Death
Reforming his body
Creating life

Also his Jenova abilities have been shown/stated to beable to:
Mindread
Shapeshift
Infect
Fly
Superspeed
Superstrength
Intangeablity
Teleport
Telepathy
Powerful Telekinesis
Regenerate
Will himself back into existence
Absorb life energy

off the top of my head

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Actually, Kil'jaeden's powers and abilities are barely ever directly mentioned, but they are widely inferred to.

Here:
"Kil'jaeden the Deceiver is a powerful eredar demon lord and is the acting leader of the Burning Legion. Selected twenty-five thousand years ago as the chief lieutenant of Sargeras, he was ranked above the now-deceased demon lord, Archimonde.W3Man 93 S&L 60, 154"

Then...
"<...>and his rank within the Legion and the eredar are listed as higher than Archimonde's. Even prior to the eredar's transformation, Velen acknowledged that Kil'jaeden was his, as well as Archimonde's, superior in matters of the arcane."

Leads us to...
"Preeminence in eredar warlock society depends almost entirely upon magical power. Those who command the greatest selection of paramount spells - and thus in theory the greatest magical arsenal - rise to higher ranks. Those whose arcane abilities top out at such pitiful cantrips as wish and shapechange are grunts and lackeys, scarcely worthy of notice."

So yeah, we can make a safe and a logical assumption that he can do what Archimonde can do, just on a grander scale and more...

(Those numbers are references to Warcraft books. I also bolded the important parts)




Let us now combine a very strong part of these two texts:



And then add:



Lets not forget the Orc clans was scattered before his arrival and it was considered impossible to have them united. He did not just unite, but lead them to victory. And just to make sure it does not go forgotten:



Velen already back then was immensely powerful, and still acknowledged him as more powerful. Furthermore, this was before Sargeras blessed him with infinite power.

Velen is not exactly known as being wrong. And let's not forget the already brought up subject revolving the mastery of Paramount spells. Paramount as few might know means "Above All" and is the highest level of magic there is. Lesser levels of magics has blown planets to shredds and crumbled mountains. Archimonde with the usage of Paramount crumbled Dalaran with a swipe, which was shielded by not only the chantings of the Kirin Tor, but which had actually recieved the shielding of the Guardians.

Which leads us further into the depths of the power: Deathwing stated that Medivh was the most powerful mage to have ever lived, and he had taken part of the Dalaran shielding. This was Archimonde's deed, who's the least powerful of him and Kil'Jaeden.


So saying that Paramount would be world-busting is not only accurate, but it is only the start of what one such as Kil'Jaeden can deliver.

Now, let us not forget that he also created Lich King, who formerly was the genious shaman and warlock Ner'Zhul. Although Ner'Zhul was the genious his was, Kil'Jaedens spell still allowed Ner'Zhuls mind to expand TENTHOUSANDFOLD. This is no overestimation, as it is officially stated. Now, Lich King is one of the most powerful entities in the universe. By Blizzard's words, "One of the most powerful entities on Azeroth was born"

Originally posted by Terryc250
In the Sephiroth vs Cloud video, Sephiroth didn't use any of his abilities or even exert himself in the fight.

But a few of his feats are:

Infecting the lifestream
Creating a plague
Holding back a power capable of wrecking the planet
Taking over the Jenova entity
Resisting Death
Reforming his body
Creating life

Also his Jenova abilities have been shown/stated to beable to:
Mindread
Shapeshift
Infect
Fly
Superspeed
Superstrength
Intangeablity
Teleport
Telepathy
Powerful Telekinesis
Regenerate
Will himself back into existence
Absorb life energy

off the top of my head

If you cut away from the list:
- Infecting the lifestream
- Will himself back into existence
- Reforming his body
- Taking over the Jenova entity
- Holding back a power capable of wrecking the planet (Dont know what he did, so we'll cut this as well)

You have listed there a portion of Kil'Jaedens powers. That is:
Creating a plague
Resisting Death
Creating life
Mindread
Shapeshift
Infect
Fly
Superspeed
Superstrength
Intangeablity
Teleport
Telepathy
Powerful Telekinesis
Regenerate
Absorb life energy

And add a few hundred more abilities to Kil'Jaedens disposal. By narrator's words, Kil'Jaeden was blessed with unlimited magic.

Originally posted by Lich King
And add a few hundred more abilities to Kil'Jaedens disposal. By narrator's words, Kil'Jaeden was blessed with unlimited magic.

What narrator's words?

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
What narrator's words?

Christine Golden

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
I have no idea where that person took that info from, but I know that Archimonde's paramount spell couldn't hold an overgrown stag pinned. Kil'jaeden is more powerful than Archimonde, yes, but not by a very big margin. Sargeras does the planet busting, not KJ or Archimonde.

PS: Kil'jaeden seems to be the flavor of the week!

Logic pretty much a simple Eredar Warlock can lay waste to a entire planet and in a sociaty were the hierarchy is determined entirely from the magical power wielded and Kil'Jaeden being the leader well...

But just read LK's post it's much more indept.

An Eredar warlock of Kil'jaeden's or Archimonde's power can definitely lay waste to a whole planet. There is a difference between laying waste to and destroying a planet completely. Low-ranking Eredar warlocks, for example, got killed quite easily by Rhonin, Krasus, Illidan and even those Moon Guard suckers. They're nothing special.

Having said that, Kil'Jaeden would've likely killed Cloud, Sephiroth and everyone else in that city with a good 'Darkness of a Thousand Souls'.

Kil'Jaeden dwarves most cities I've seen. A single swipe of his arm will send them crying.

Sort of, but the buildings in the city in which Cloud and Sephiroth fought are pretty damn big. Also, we don't really know what are the limits of Kil'jaeden's shapeshifting abilities(e.g. just how far can he increase his size/mass?)

Not to say that his vast magical might couldn't turn that city and its inhabitants into ash in minutes, though.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
An Eredar warlock of Kil'jaeden's or Archimonde's power can definitely lay waste to a whole planet. There is a difference between laying waste to and destroying a planet completely. Low-ranking Eredar warlocks, for example, got killed quite easily by Rhonin, Krasus, Illidan and even those Moon Guard suckers. They're nothing special.

Having said that, Kil'Jaeden would've likely killed Cloud, Sephiroth and everyone else in that city with a good 'Darkness of a Thousand Souls'.

I don't think you quiet understand the level of power the Paramount spells grant the Eredar Warlocks. A ordinary Eredar Warlock can with the right amount of time summon forth a spell called cittering death which slow march destroys continents with ease. And the Moon Guard too got owned with ease by a Warlock he simply twiched his finges and the cape that the Moon Guard wore closed around and pressed him into nothing, Illidan then needed the rest of the Moon Guard to break through the defenses that the Eredar Warlock had.

Most likely yes, and that was just a weakened version.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Sort of, but the buildings in the city in which Cloud and Sephiroth fought are pretty damn big. Also, we don't really know what are the limits of Kil'jaeden's shapeshifting abilities(e.g. just how far can he increase his size/mass?)

Not to say that his vast magical might couldn't turn that city and its inhabitants into ash in minutes, though.

We know as a minimum that Kil'Jaeden dwarves Draenor mountains. There's the "minimum" maximum height of his shapeshifting. Given how tall Archimonde could turn, I'm fairly certain that not even what we see in the image below is the limit of his size.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/wowwiki/images/e/eb/Kil%E2%80%99jaeden_and_Ner%E2%80%99zhul.jpg

Minutes? Seconds. Look what Archimonde did to Dalaran, and it was incredibly shielded by magical barriers. In this video, he even took a fair amount of unecessary pauses and not to be forgotten is still far weaker than Kil'Jaeden in the ways of the arcane.

I3BxvHhz4XQ

Originally posted by Utrigita
I don't think you quiet understand the level of power the Paramount spells grant the Eredar Warlocks. A ordinary Eredar Warlock can with the right amount of time summon forth a spell called cittering death which slow march destroys continents with ease. And the Moon Guard too got owned with ease by a Warlock he simply twiched his finges and the cape that the Moon Guard wore closed around and pressed him into nothing, Illidan then needed the rest of the Moon Guard to break through the defenses that the Eredar Warlock had.

Most likely yes, and that was just a weakened version.

I find a quote by Anduin Lothar suitable for this text of yours:
- "An ostler has a mood and he kicks the dog. A mage has his moods and a town disappears"
It was stated earlier in the same epoch that a single spell by not even the strongest of mages can have entire landscapes vanish. Now, we are talking about a race dedicated in magical power, rumored the most powerful magical race in the universe and that master not only the Paramount spell, but does so with the blessing of the Burning Legion, under rule of the most powerful entity in the universe (Whom's rather generous with giving out power)

Originally posted by Lich King

- "An ostler has a mood and he kicks the dog. A mage has his moods and a town disappears"



Maybe I was a bit hasty saying that a 'Darkness of a Thousand Souls' could instantly kill Sephiroth, maybe he could resist it... having power over this Lifestream and all.

Originally posted by Lich King
I find a quote by Anduin Lothar suitable for this text of yours:
- "An ostler has a mood and he kicks the dog. A mage has his moods and a town disappears"

Hyperbole.

Originally posted by SHM
Hyperbole.

Yes, most likely. But there are mages who have the power to make a town disappear.

It's been stated that mages can destroy entire landscapes. That by narrator rather than by Lothar.

ok, im thinking kil'jaeden, because of what he is capable of, like creating the lich king who is insanely powerful, and the fact taht he is more powerful than Archimonde, and he destroyed that city by drawin in the sand, but its hard to compare the 2, cuz in ff games they use a lot of symbology in the attacks, like in the fight against seph he summons a meteor and destroys the sun and the explosion hits earth....yeah, little overboard, so we dont really have a clear view of what seph is capable of, kil'jeaden was killed by a 25 man raid and some dragons, altho they were crazy powerful dragons, i dont know, ill stick with my original answer kil'jaeden

Originally posted by niduin
kil'jeaden was killed by a 25 man raid and some dragons, altho they were crazy powerful dragons, i dont know, ill stick with my original answer kil'jaeden

Important correction: Kil'Jaeden was not killed. He was thrown back into the portal thanks to Anveena, the dragons and the heroes. He is very much alive.

This match up is almost pointless, and subsequently ends with a draw, because both characters have never shown their true potential. So theoretically we don't even "know" how powerful they are within the first place anyhow.

I don't know much about Kil'jaeden so I won't argue within this thread, however Chaos Vincent who sent a blast that basically rippled the entire FFVII planet, and yet Sephiroth is stated to be even more powerful then Chaos Vincent himself. I'm just curious because if Sephiroth has even greater potential then that, does Kil'jaeden have anything that would be on par to what Chaos Vincent did in DoC?

I'm not trying to be biased here, I just would like to know more details of Kil's abilities other then a few short statements.

I like how gameplay is used so often, a 25 man raid killing, defeating or a one man GM one hitting kiljaeden, has zero relevence in this thread.

Well, when you get into the books, Kil'jaeden's powers become more clear.

Originally posted by JustFrame
Chaos Vincent who sent a blast that basically rippled the entire FFVII planet, and yet Sephiroth is stated to be even more powerful then Chaos Vincent himself. Stupidity on the part of the writer's.

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Stupidity on the part of the writer's.

Hardly stupidity on the "writers" parts, since Sephiroth never displayed his full abilities, since he's done things that only Chaos Vincent could dream of (staying alive through his will even without a body is one of them), the mere fact that his wealth and knowledge of the lifestream itself would have greatly surpassed every powerful entity within the VII Universe would easily put him heads and shoulders above everyone. I kind of find it strange that people think that the only form of great power is the ability to "destroy things" (not saying this directly to you Thunder).

How could you possibly disagree with the writers at this point?

Because they created two characters who are obviously above him, one horrendously so.

Justframe brings an interesting point, when they say no being is more powerful than sephiroth ,or stronger.....its also considred that "knowledge" is also power, and thus perhaps he knows far more than them.

Originally posted by JustFrame
I'm not trying to be biased here, I just would like to know more details of Kil's abilities other then a few short statements.

I would not consider the information given in this thread about Kil'jaeden "short statements"

Originally posted by Burning thought
Justframe brings an interesting point, when they say no being is more powerful than sephiroth ,or stronger.....its also considred that "knowledge" is also power, and thus perhaps he knows far more than them. He knows stuff about the Lifestream.

So does Bugenhagen, who arguably knows more about the Lifestream than anyone, yet he is just a feeble old man.

Who gives a shit about Sephiroth's "knowledge?"

Originally posted by JustFrame
How could you possibly disagree with the writers at this point?

Because of bias and fanboyism. Or in this case, haterism(yeah, I know this word doesn't exist).



And having knowledge over the Lifestream(by traveling through it), gives you knowledge of how to use its power, duh!


Anyway... Kitase, Nomura, Nojima, and all the other creators of FFVII >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> biased haters of KMC.

Originally posted by SHM
Because of bias and fanboyism. Or in this case, haterism(yeah, I know this word doesn't exist).



And having knowledge over the Lifestream(by traveling through it), gives you knowledge of how to use its power, duh!


Anyway... Kitase, Nomura, Nojima, and all the other creators of FFVII >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> biased haters of KMC.

I never said I doubted the word of the creators. Besides, this thread was started by a person who actually likes Sephiroth.

Originally posted by SHM
Because of bias and fanboyism. Or in this case, haterism(yeah, I know this word doesn't exist).



And having knowledge over the Lifestream(by traveling through it), gives you knowledge of how to use its power, duh!


Anyway... Kitase, Nomura, Nojima, and all the other creators of FFVII >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> biased haters of KMC. Don't b!tch at me just because the creators of Final Fantasy VII have no concept of continuity.