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Who does he lose to and why?

1. Rahm Kota
2. Shaak Ti
3. Kit Fisto
4. Rots Obi Wan
5. Rots Mace Windu
6. Rots Yoda
7.Rot Darth Bane
8. NJO Luke

Falls at #5. Not only has Mace demonstrated more powerful use of the Force (holding hundreds of tons of rock in the air; I don't recall vader demonstrating anything even close), but he's also the far greater swordsman and possesses mastery over Shatterpoint as well as Vaapad. Vader quite simply doesn't compare.

Oh, and:

What, I forgot to space. Wow...

Originally posted by The Taven
Falls at #5. Not only has Mace demonstrated more powerful use of the Force (holding hundreds of tons of rock in the air; I don't recall vader demonstrating anything even close), but he's also the far greater swordsman and possesses mastery over Shatterpoint as well as Vaapad. Vader quite simply doesn't compare.

Well not that im arguing that he is going to beat mace(vader still loses by the way) but he did destroy a massive hut as strong as steel in TFU, tanked starkillers lightning that wiped out battalions of stormtroopers as well as bringing down ATAT's, casually choking a jedi that was able to rip an entire space station apart, nearly killing starkiller and being able to tank starkillers kamikaze attack that destroyed part of the death star.

Mace would win in sabers, but i think Vader would win in a force fight, and maybe even all out.

He definately goes down at 6.

Originally posted by The Taven
] Mace demonstrated more powerful use of the Force (holding hundreds of tons of rock in the air;
I'm pretty sure he caused a rock slide, (that was going to occur anyway he just sped it up) rode it to the steam crawler and used the force to help stop the slide once he got there, I maybe wrong but I don't recall the rocks physically being levitated in the air by Mace.

Originally posted by Lethal Rogue
What, I forgot to space. Wow...

I think that he was pointing out that (because in a gauntlet the order usually goes from easiest to hardest) you placed Darth Bane at a higher power level than Yoda.

If he kills Mace via his likely superior Force-power, Yoda slaughters him.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
I think that he was pointing out that (because in a gauntlet the order usually goes from easiest to hardest) you placed Darth Bane at a higher power level than Yoda.
Rot Bane w/ orbalisks is more powerful than Rots Yoda.

No.

Yes...

No.

Why don't we stop making 1 word posts in here and debate with facts in the thread I just made about this.

Because after going round and round with Nebaris for a year about Bane, I've lost faith in those who support him. Since you made the claim, it's your burden to prove.

Prove he's better.

If you want to read a yoda vs bane debate then here is a link to a thread I made a little over a year ago.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t473551.html

Thanks Elite.

He loses at two. Shaak Ti is well beyond his level in terms of swordsmanship. She'd outclass him at every turn in that regard. Plus, rendering herself invisible a la Maris Brood would prove difficult to defend against given her speed, ability & Vader's lack thereof.

Vader is certainly stronger in the Force, but he's also limited to TK. And I don't see TK alone being able to bring down an experienced master-level Jedi Consular, who's clearly powerful in her own right.

Too much sarcasm.

Advent? Holy shit haven't you been gone for like over a year? Good to have you back lol, Gideon's missed you...

Oh and this is Darth Sexy btw, I changed my username.

Could've fooled me.

You're not DS, liar.

Originally posted by Advent
He loses at two. Shaak Ti is well beyond his level in terms of swordsmanship. She'd outclass him at every turn in that regard. Plus, rendering herself invisible a la Maris Brood would prove difficult to defend against given her speed, ability & Vader's lack thereof.

Vader is certainly stronger in the Force, but he's also limited to TK. And I don't see TK alone being able to bring down an experienced master-level Jedi Consular, who's clearly powerful in her own right.
No, Vader would destroy Shaak Ti. I think he would get to six, then lose.

Prove it.

You'd think he'd beat Windu, seriously?

Yeah, but it'd definitely be close. He just outclasses him in the force. IDK though, Mace is a great swordsman...

While i believe vader is better in the force than windu thanks to TFU, he will get his ass moped by windu's far superior lightsaber dueling capabilities and this will likely end up a saber duel.

He stops at 5.

To be honest though, on second thought Vader isn't that bad a swordsman himself. As AcStyles pointed out, he employed elements of all form of combat in his customised style, which not only gives him a somewhat alien style, but arguably makes him more versatile and complete a swordsman than pretty much any character in the mythos.

Your opinions sure change fast neb, but i still think he goes down at windu as far as a saber fight goes.

Yeah, with sabers, but this is all out. I think because of his superior force abilities, he will win.

Originally posted by Advent
He loses at two. Shaak Ti is well beyond his level in terms of swordsmanship. She'd outclass him at every turn in that regard. Plus, rendering herself invisible a la Maris Brood would prove difficult to defend against given her speed, ability & Vader's lack thereof.

Vader is certainly stronger in the Force, but he's also limited to TK. And I don't see TK alone being able to bring down an experienced master-level Jedi Consular, who's clearly powerful in her own right.

The idea that Shaak Ti is beyond Vader is absurd. And hilarious. And 'limited to TK?' That hurt him...when, precisely? It's more than Shaak Ti can fight back against. and when was she comparable to Vader's incredible swordsmanship, now? And when was Vader slow?

Vader won't lose to Shaak Ti.

Though Ti has been regarded by multiple canon sources as an extremely capable swordswoman, Vader's mastery allows him to borrow elements and techniques from all seven disciplines and combine them into an unorthodox method of combat. He has survived and defeated numerous Jedi in combat even when they outnumbered him.

Lastly, Vader's telekinesis is some of the most efficient and capable we've seen. He is a master of manipulating the environment and his feats in TFU are considerable. If pressed to a blade-to-blade engagement, she might perform well against him, but I hardly see Vader letting that happen.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And when was Vader slow?

starwars.yahoo.kom/videos/prime-of-the-jedi

"I was looking for a kind of swordfighting that was reminiscent of what was in the movies that we'd already done, but a more energised version of it, because we've actually never seen real Jedis at work, we'd only seen - you know - old men and crippled, half-droid, half men and young boys that had learned form these people. So, to see a Jedi fighting in the prime of the Jedi, I wanted it to be a much more energetic and faster version of what we've been doing."

George Lucas aka the man (lower case of course, there's only one person that warrants the upper case) directly attributes the lack of fast paced fighting, on Vader's part, to his cyborg status, and states that he wanted the fighting in the new films to be much more energized and energetic so that it would reflect on how Jedi - in general - fought in the "prime of the Jedi," which would quite clearly indicate that Vader wasn't really anywhere near as quick as any Jedi from the prequel trilogy. Relatively speaking, he's as slow as it gets.

BTW, is it just me or does Nick Gillard talk absolute nonsense in that entire video? Apparently Jedi are trained tennis players and lumberjacks.

replace "k" in "kom" with "c"

Originally posted by Weaboo
starwars.yahoo.kom/videos/prime-of-the-jedi

"I was looking for a kind of swordfighting that was reminiscent of what was in the movies that we'd already done, but a more energised version of it, because we've actually never seen real Jedis at work, we'd only seen - you know - old men and crippled, half-droid, half men and young boys that had learned form these people. So, to see a Jedi fighting in the prime of the Jedi, I wanted it to be a much more energetic and faster version of what we've been doing."

George Lucas aka the man (lower case of course, there's only one person that warrants the upper case) directly attributes the lack of fast paced fighting, on Vader's part, to his cyborg status, and states that he wanted the fighting in the new films to be much more energized and energetic so that it would reflect on how Jedi - in general - fought in the "prime of the Jedi," which would quite clearly indicate that Vader wasn't really anywhere near as quick as any Jedi from the prequel trilogy. Relatively speaking, he's as slow as it gets.

BTW, is it just me or does Nick Gillard talk absolute nonsense in that entire video? Apparently Jedi are trained tennis players and lumberjacks.

I don't think he's referring to Vader's in-universe speed so much as the fact that limited technology in the 70's disabled Lucas from correctly portraying the Jedi's fighting abilities.

No he's definitely referring to his in-universe speed as he provides an in-universe explanation: the fact that he was a cyborg and how it hindered his maneuverability.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
I don't think he's referring to Vader's in-universe speed so much as the fact that limited technology in the 70's disabled Lucas from correctly portraying the Jedi's fighting abilities.

Thank you, if you hadn't clarified that my head was going to explode from trying to comprehend how a slow Vader avoided Aurra's blows, outspeeded an imperial royal guard, or performed a lightning fast undersweep.

How does Vader being "half droid half man" have any bearing on the limitations of 70's technology?

That's not going to work, Nebaris. If Vader were slow relative to any Jedi during the Order's prime, how can you explain that (as Palpatine himself notes) Vader is the most notorious Jedi killer in history? Many of whom he slayed in blade to blade combat.

Clearly, on some level, he can complete and outclass most Jedi.

Because speed isn't the be all end all? A determining factor? Regardless of that, GL's word would trump C-Canon material anyway.

Originally posted by Weaboo
Because speed isn't the be all end all? A determining factor? Regardless of that, GL's word would trump C-Canon material anyway.

I admire how you attempt to twist things to go your way. Nevertheless, Vader's strength in the Force allows him to compensate for otherwise below average speed.

Are you suggesting that GL was making a reference to his non Force enhanced speed? Or that his strength in the Force manifests in other areas and makes up for his relative lack of speed?

Originally posted by Weaboo
Are you suggesting that GL was making a reference to his non Force enhanced speed? Or that his strength in the Force manifests in other areas and makes up for his relative lack of speed?

Both.

Originally posted by DorianYates
Well not that im arguing that he is going to beat mace(vader still loses by the way) but he did destroy a massive hut as strong as steel in TFU, tanked starkillers lightning that wiped out battalions of stormtroopers as well as bringing down ATAT's, casually choking a jedi that was able to rip an entire space station apart, nearly killing starkiller and being able to tank starkillers kamikaze attack that destroyed part of the death star.

which version of TFU did u play? I played thorugh the ps3 one and don't remember anywhere about starkiller shocking vader with lightning.. although I read it in the book.

I didn't play TFU because lucasfarts wouldn't make a PC version but yes it was mentioned in the novel which IS canon.




@Neb

Why are you in one post arguing that vader is a capable duelist and then in another claiming he is a slow weak ass piece of shit?

Originally posted by kotorfan
which version of TFU did u play? I played thorugh the ps3 one and don't remember anywhere about starkiller shocking vader with lightning.. although I read it in the book.

He is talking about the book incedent.

Edit: nevermind Arnold beat me to it

Originally posted by Gideon
Both.

Well you're wrong on the first part as George Lucas quite clearly states that we haven't seen "real jedis at work," (real jedi being what he uses interchangeably with faster paced and more energized fighting) and what we see measures the end product of Vader's speed: natural and force enhanced; we don't see the individual parts of what makes up a person's speed.

Originally posted by DorianYates
@Neb

Why are you in one post arguing that vader is a capable duelist and then in another claiming he is a slow weak ass piece of shit?

I was suggesting that he was arguably the most versatile and complete swordsman (as in technical skill) in the mythos; that has absolutely no bearing on his speed.

Yeah, I agree. He is slow but he is a good swordsman.

Originally posted by Lethal Rogue
Rot Bane w/ orbalisks is more powerful than Rots Yoda.
Oh god