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I made an gauntlet and some people don't agree that Bane is more powerful than Yoda. What do you think?
1. Lightsabers
2. Force
3. All-out
Who wins each type of battle and why?

yoda

I think Rot Bane w/ orbalisks because, frankly, I haven't seen anything from Yoda that convinces me he can get through the orbalisks. Yoda is powerful in the force, but what is a force push going to do to unbreakable orbalisks. Yoda doesn't use force lightning, which is the orbalisks weakness, and, as I said before, doesn't have the ability to get through them.
Darth Bane, on the other hand, is also exceptional in the force. He took on numerous jedi at once, destroyed all of Kaan's brotherhood, and pretty much killed anyone who stood up to him. He is also good with a lightsaber. Therefore:
1. Bane (because of orbalisks, i.e: yoda is a better lightsaber duelist but won't be able to penetrate orbalisks)
2. Bane
3. Bane

Except that Bane didn't destroy Kaan's Brotherhood single-handedly. And Yoda managed to drive Count Dooku into retreat on Vjun -- a planet steeped in the dark side of the Force and Confederacy stronghold -- all the while holding back and being distracted by Dooku endangering the lives of civilians.

The same Count Dooku who is considered by multiple sources to be a legendary swordsman even amongst Jedi, one of the greatest and most powerful Jedi Masters in the Order's twenty-five-thousand-year history, and "an even greater Lord of the Sith."

Not to mention that he dueled Darth Sidious to a stalemate; the same Sidious who is also regarded by multiple sources (Dark Side Sourcebook, the Complete Visual Dictionary, and the Complete Encyclopedia) as being more powerful than Bane.

You haven't said any facts that say how Yoda can beat Bane. Saying that he could fight Dooku to a stalemate and Bane PROBABLY couldn't just doesn't work.
And also, yeah, Bane actually did pretty much destroy Kaan's brotherhood single-handedly, even though I didn't say that in my post.

Originally posted by Lethal Rogue
You haven't said any facts that say how Yoda can beat Bane. Saying that he could fight Dooku to a stalemate and Bane PROBABLY couldn't just doesn't work.

I said he dueled Sidious to a stalemate. The same Sidious who is established to be more powerful than Bane. Dooku? He kicked Dooku's ass and forced the Count to flee on a planet steeped in the dark side of the Force and a Confederacy stronghold.

Do you copy?




No, he didn't. The Thought Bomb did. Without their involvement in the ritual, Bane couldn't have summoned the Thought Bomb. Ergo, he didn't do shit.

First of all, Yoda lost to Sidious. It has been established that Sidious is stronger than Yoda.
Second, Bane convinced Kaan to use the thought bomb. He also helped destroy the brotherhood by killing some sith personally.

Originally posted by Lethal Rogue
First of all, Yoda lost to Sidious.

The battle ended in a stalemate. In fact, if you want to get absolutely technical, Yoda scored the final blow.



He becomes more powerful than Yoda; at the time of Revenge of the Sith? Not really.



That's a dumb bullshit argument. I don't deny that he personally killed some members of the Brotherhood, but your claim is that he personally defeated all of them, as if it's some accolade.

It isn't.

The fact remains that he did not kill the Brotherhood due to his own power.

Yoda RAN from Sidious knowing he couldn't win. Also, I never said Bane PERSONALLY destroyed the brotherhood. I was just listing his feats, and one was wiping out the brotherhood, so get over it. Denying that he got rid of them is just stubborn of you, which you just so happen to be.

Originally posted by Lethal Rogue
Yoda RAN from Sidious knowing he couldn't win. Also, I never said Bane PERSONALLY destroyed the brotherhood. I was just listing his feats, and one was wiping out the brotherhood, so get over it. Denying that he got rid of them is just stubborn of you, which you just so happen to be. Knowing you can't win a particular fight isn't an automatic translation of "Sidious>Yoda." Sidious had the upper hand due to environment, change that and the outcome changes with it. And you may not have said Bane destroyed the Brotherhood personally, but your implication was clear. Saying "Darth Bane... destroyed all of Kaan's brotherhood" without specification of your intention is indicative of saying it was Bane who did it personally. Specifics matter.

And by the by, while Bane may have orchestrated the Brotherhood's destruction, he did it through lies, manipulation and subterfuge. While that's impressive it's not a combat feat, and means nothing in a duel.

Actually Sidious may have been a bit stronger than Yoda during their duel. The Revenge of the Sith: Visual dictionary says that Yoda realizes he was overmatched.

Though that does not mean Bane can beat Yoda. Yoda and Sidious were still near equals. Yoda has demonstrated more control of the force than Bane. Like when he destroyed four landing platforms, that held numerous vehicles and armies of droids, by using the force to slam them into each other. Yoda's agility is also more impressive than Bane's. Like when he dodged several senate pods coming at him at great speeds.

Sidious was not more powerful than Yoda as of RotS; the battle ended in a stalemate.

Was Yoda "overmatched"? Sure. He lacked Sidious's stamina, was without a lightsaber, and Sidious was manipulating the environment.

That does not mean in any other setting that he would have lost.

Star Wars: The Comics Companion straight out says Sidious was too strong for Yoda.

Bane has manipulated the force on a sub-atomic level and disintergrated metal. That is a much greater show of control then slamming 4 things together.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Bane has manipulated the force on a sub-atomic level and disintergrated metal. That is a much greater show of control then slamming 4 things together.

You make it sound as if he slammed 4 pieces of bread together. The landing crafts were maybe over 1000 tons, and that is not including all the armada in it. Yoda has also crushed part of a mountain on an army of droids, and lifted tons of rock that threatened Luminara and Barriss offee, and bend back a lightning attack from the most powerful sith in history.

You said control, not power. They aren't the same thing.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
You said control, not power. They aren't the same thing.

What? Do you think Yoda had no control? To achieves these acts as casually as Yoda did takes a lot of control.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
What? Do you think Yoda had no control? To achieves these acts as casually as Yoda did takes a lot of control. Yeah, but can he manipulate sub-atomic particles like Bane did, that's the $10,000 question.

Isn't Yoda said to be the greatest foe the darkness had ever faced ? And doesn't this make him win anyhow ?

You'd think so in an all-out. Divide it up like we also do though and let's see where Yoda stands with just lightsabers, or just Force against Orbalisks, etc. etc.

Unless Bane falls to a lightsider in book 3, no.

EDIT: Nevermind.

rots sidious>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>any version of bane

yoda stalemated sidious

also at the end of ROT bane lost his orbalisks so yoda would cream him

You people hurt my brain.

Let's also establish this subatomic manipulation thing is pretty clearly usage for a Holocron? And given Yoda created one himself...

It's "pretty clearly" not.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Like when he destroyed four landing platforms, that held numerous vehicles and armies of droids, by using the force to slam them into each other.Two ships, not four.

And just so we're clear, the Revenge of the Sith novelization alludes to and picks off after the events that transpired in Labyrinth of Evil, not the CWC. The former doesn't even have Yoda taking part in the Battle of Coruscant, so the canonical status of the scene you mentioned is up for debate.

Yoda's agility is more impressive than pretty much everyone's. It's like saying Yoda's shorter; duh, and it doesn't really matter.

Not to mention, he does struggle with basic telekinesis in Attack of the Clones. Granted it happened directly after a battle situation but it's quite clearly the movie's way at establishing him (and the Jedi and Sith of that era in general) as low tier street level combatants.

How can Yoda get past the orbalisks without lightning though? This is why he loses.
And Gideon, for the last time, it has been printed on paper that Yoda was overmatched and knew he couldn't win.

Originally posted by Lethal Rogue
How can Yoda get past the orbalisks without lightning though? This is why he loses.
And Gideon, for the last time, it has been printed on paper that Yoda was overmatched and knew he couldn't win.

Please show this source. Are you talking about the fight with Sidious, because I can point you to the original draft stating Yoda disarms Sidious.

the Rots visual dictionary

Anyways, Bane has demonstrated the ability to:

1. Naturally resist the mind powers of Lord Kaan, the leader of the Brotherhood of Darkness who was notably powerful as well as possessing a talent for the branch of the Force, to such an extent that it had "no more effect than a rusted knife scraping against the hide plates of a Halurian ice-boar."

2. Break through Quordis' force shield, leader of the Sith Academy, with such ease that it was described as having been wiped away "as if it hadn't even been there."

3. Spread Force lightning across an entire room that was capable of housing hundreds of students with a single release of energy, after not even having learnt technique an hour beforehand.

4. Use the Force on the sub-atomic level.

5. Use the Force on the sub-atomic level.

6. Move faster than the eye could see.

7. Absorb a planetary level of energy, contain it and protect himself internally from it, and redirect it across the diameter of an entire planet.

Among a ridiculous number of other things.

It's also worth noting that even by Ro2, he's still only received the level of training time a Jedi padawan would possess, and taking that into account coupled with the facts that he's displayed an extremely prodigious learning rate and that the darkside naturally grants its users a quick path to power, it's pretty clear that his rate of growth between each feat and his current peak would be abnormally larger than for most (possible exceptions being Darth Zannah and Exar Kun).

Then of course there's the fact that he possesses the orbalisk armour, which increases his effectiveness as a combatant tenfold (what with the near infallible protection provided, the unique manner he fights using it, the adrenaline it provides (which would give him enhancements in strength, speed, and reflexes) the enhancements to his reserves of darkside energies, and the enhanced healing factor).

You could also take into account his knowledge of the darkside which includes all of Revan's knowledge, all that he could learn from Sadow's entire knowledge base in ten years (it's again worth noting his abnormal learning rate and the fact that he learnt everything Revan had ever known in a matter of weeks), as well as the fact that Yoda was never depicted as a scholar (wise leader of the Jedi Order =/= scholar) and has never demonstrated an exceptional amount of knowledge in the Force.

And lastly, these ridiculous Sidious measured ABC arguments fail each time because there is not a single source that conclusively states that RotS Sidious was the most effective combatant there had ever been up until his time. Not a single one.

Bane wins.

Who's Bane?

Good points. Exactly what I'm trying to say.

And Nebaris has returned, and left.

Originally posted by Who's Nebaris?
Not to mention, he does struggle with basic telekinesis in Attack of the Clones. Granted it happened directly after a battle situation but it's quite clearly the movie's way at establishing him (and the Jedi and Sith of that era in general) as low tier street level combatants.




Just... Wow.






Sorry. I couldn't control myself.


George Lucas (instant top tier canon) disagrees with you; He calls the PT the 'Prime of the Jedi.'

For the purpose of supporting his general versatility, he was capable of revealing the presences of about eight Umbaaran Shadow Guards (Force Users who's entire level of training had revolved around concealing themselves with the Force) with a single wave of intangible dark side energy, seeing "far into the future" at will, resisting most of the effects of one of the most powerful poisons in the Galaxy after it had already been in his system and built up to maximum potency, and displays some pretty awesome sh1t without any level of training whatsoever. Darth Zannah, the person who could protect herself and her immediate area from the BoD's Force Storm ritual, use the Force to kill two war driven Jedi Knights, among other things, all as an untrained eight year old girl, is stated to possess an instinctive link to the darkside that only "rivals" Bane's.

Nobody said they were low tier with respect to any other era of Jedi or Sith. Just that they were, in general, low tier street level combatants. Going out of her way (and all the way from Thailand!) to include "of that era" doesn't mean that she was necessarily using other eras as comparisons.

And "street levels" hardly a relative term anyway.

Haha look at Nebaris go. He's back to his usual self of getting banned, making a new account, and getting banned again.

And I'm really surprised at how fast it goes.

Originally posted by Lethal Rogue
Good points. Exactly what I'm trying to say.

Except that he's wrong.

Originally posted by Faunus
Two ships, not four. No it was four. He lifted one off the ground, and slammed it into one in the air. Then he slammed two into each other that were already in the air.

I may be wrong because it has been a long time since i read Labyrinth, but i don't see how Yoda fighting in that battle contradicts the book. The only contradiction is Windu's role at the beggining of the battle. Labyrinth may work more accurate with the ROTS novel, but not necessarily the movie.

I repeat: I may be wrong.

Was that suppose to throw my arguement out the window? That is kinda like me saying " well duh Yoda can repel lightning.

Are you trying to say i shouldn't use that in an arguement?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
No it was four. He lifted one off the ground, and slammed it into one in the air. Then he slammed two into each other that were already in the air.

I may be wrong because it has been a long time since i read Labyrinth, but i don't see how Yoda fighting in that battle contradicts the book. The only contradiction is Windu's role at the beggining of the battle. Labyrinth may work more accurate with the ROTS novel, but not necessarily the movie.

I repeat: I may be wrong.

Was that suppose to throw my arguement out the window? That is kinda like me saying " well duh Yoda can repel lightning.

Are you trying to say i shouldn't use that in an arguement? ****.

Ignore that post entirely until I get back to you on the Labyrinth of Evil matter. You're correct on the number of ships he crashed, and on the last bit. I'm officially embarassed.

Originally posted by Faunus
I'm officially embarassed.

*points and laughs*

Consider yourself demoted.

Originally posted by Lethal Rogue
Good points. Exactly what I'm trying to say.

You asked me why I don't post much. Perhaps you should follow my example and stop posting so much. It will make you look smarter than agreeing with Nebaris.

Originally posted by Gideon
Except that he's wrong.
Not really. Even though he's Nebaris and is a Bane fanboy, all the feats he put down are factual and can be proven.

Originally posted by Lethal Rogue
Not really. Even though he's Nebaris and is a Bane fanboy, all the feats he put down are factual and can be proven.

no

Succinctly put.

What exactly is the problem you all have with Darth Bane?

If you don't like the character fine, fair enough. But saying "he loses, his feats don't count, etc, because we don't like him" is childish, biased and has no place in a fair debate.

Because there has been nothing offered that says he is more powerful than Yoda.

Originally posted by Gideon
Because there has been nothing offered that says he is more powerful than Yoda.

Maybe not, but that's no reason to completely dismiss valid feats.

Originally posted by Who's Nebaris?
Anyways, Bane has demonstrated the ability to:

1. Naturally resist the mind powers of Lord Kaan, the leader of the Brotherhood of Darkness who was notably powerful as well as possessing a talent for the branch of the Force, to such an extent that it had "no more effect than a rusted knife scraping against the hide plates of a Halurian ice-boar."
He resists something that only works on the weak minded. Given Kaan couldn't manipulate Kopecz, either...so?

Given Qordis's weakness...so?


You keep lying about the room it was done in, kiddo.


Like any Force user creating a holocron. To quote on Sith holocrons: they require precise alterations, often on a sub-atomic level.'


So could Yoda. actually, when Bane is seen moving through the eyes of others, he's very visible.

You mean he channels an entire ritual. And?

So? This speaks to his learning potential, nothing else.

Irrelevant if his head is uncovered against Yoda.

Yoda is described as 'extraordinarily powerful' with 'incredible' knowledge of the Force. So, you're full of shit. As usual.
And Sadow's knowledge base? Again. Full of it.
Yoda never depicted as a scholar. According to who, you?

You refusing to accept it doesn't mean it's not true. At the very least, he's confirmed as more powerful than Bane. Sorry!

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Maybe not, but that's no reason to completely dismiss valid feats.

The feats would be "valid" if anything represented would contribute to finding the winner of a hypothetical fight between Yoda and Bane. Does any of that feats fit that requirement.

NO.

Why not?

a) Resisting some mind-control is not going to help Bane, unless somebody attacks him with some mind-control. Do you expect Yoda to force-trick Bane to death?

b) Any mentioning of other force user would require to put their power in context with that of Yoda. Who cares if Bane overwhelmed the force defence of Quordis or resisted Kaan if his opponent happens to be one of the if not the most powerful Jedi in galactic history up to the point of RotS?

c) Using the force on a sub-atomic level might help if attempting to force push Nebaris brain anywhere. Otherwise being able to do something like that is of no use in a versus fight, unless said fight is decided via a game of "Toss the Nucleus". I'm not seeing it happen.

d) Anything archieved via rituals and while using the power of other individuals (Force Bomb, Force Storm on Ruusan) can't be used for a versus fight.

And finally:

e) This is a VERSUS fight and not "Feat Wars". If it was the latter, Yoda would wipe Bane from existance without difficulty, considering the fact that his list of combat feats exceeds that of Bane by far. Not that it will make any difference, because Yoda is simply faster, better in technical ability and more powerful than Bane. Period. The Sith Lord is going down here.

Originally posted by Lethal Rogue
How can Yoda get past the orbalisks without lightning though? This is why he loses.
And Gideon, for the last time, it has been printed on paper that Yoda was overmatched and knew he couldn't win.

yeah, not like Bane has his head totally uncovered and vulnerable.

It would help if you put that into proper context.

At the end of his duel with Sidious, Yoda was disarmed and thrown from a great height. While being a Jedi of immense power, his options were limited relative to Sidious in terms of offensive capability; Sidious sure as hell wasn't keen on carrying on the duel. So, in that situation, Yoda was "overmatched." He was unarmed, exhausted, and fighting in enemy territory; furthermore, he came to the realization that fighting Sidious blade-to-blade was still furthering the agenda of the Sith. To quote Stover: "by fighting at all, the Jedi lost."

That does not mean that the Emperor was more powerful than Yoda. No source has indicated as much.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Star Wars: The Comics Companion straight out says Sidious was too strong for Yoda.

Here is the source Gideon.

Minor point correction LS, Bane most likely did have a lot of Sadow's knowledge since he did have Nadd's holocron, who did learned under Sadow's spirit.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
Minor point correction LS, Bane most likely did have a lot of Sadow's knowledge since he did have Nadd's holocron, who did learn under Sadow's spirit.

Which doesn't mean too much. Nadd didn't complete his training under Sadow and most of Sadow's knowledge was stored in the temple protected by the Sith Wyrm that Kun killed. Which means that Nadd probably didn't access much of Sadow's knowledge. Otherwise he wouldn't need Kun to kill the beast and optain the stuff Sadow left behind there.

Good point, I forgot that Nadd betrayed Sadow prematurely.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Here is the source Gideon.

I want the statement verbatim.

Originally posted by Borbarad
Which doesn't mean too much. Nadd didn't complete his training under Sadow and most of Sadow's knowledge was stored in the temple protected by the Sith Wyrm that Kun killed. Which means that Nadd probably didn't access much of Sadow's knowledge. Otherwise he wouldn't need Kun to kill the beast and optain the stuff Sadow left behind there.

You do understand that by, in any way, shape, or form, assisting in the establishment of a pro-Bane argument, you are breaching numerous Man Laws?

Sh.

Originally posted by Faunus
Sh.

Nebaris will stalk you as a means of demonstrating gratitude. Perhaps, for the first and only time, you can experience something along the lines of sex with a real person.

Faunus, where is that from? There are conflicting sources according to JvS. One says he murdered Sadow and became the DLOTS. Another one states that he was unable to become a DLOTS while the DLOTS lived, he ran to Onderon. At any rate, Bane was studying his holocron for 10 years which no doubt means there was a lot of useful information there. Doesn't really help him against Yoda but just clarifying here.

Originally posted by Gideon
Nebaris will stalk you as a means of demonstrating gratitude. Perhaps, for the first and only time, you can experience something along the lines of sex with a real person.I could momentarily employ the online jock persona so loved by the sad and lonely by pointing out to you the merits of my sex life, but I shall not. Instead, I'll simply spell this out for you. Your religion condemns sex before marriage (and masturbation); mine does not. If you consider yourself a true Christian, you cannot yet have had sex, and will instead remain a loservirgin until some unlucky, underage, and likely related girl is forced into union with you. By claiming that you have had sex, you open yourself up to accusations of hypocrisy or weakness of faith. By attempting to insult others based on their potential lack of experience with sex, you open yourself up to accusations of employment of double-standards or blatant idiocy. Clear? Good. Now go **** yourself.

Oh wait...

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Faunus, where is that from?RoT.

Well that was an interesting way to spent twenty minutes, Faunus.

Edit: And where have I claimed to have sex? Cover thy ass; it's my motto. Yours is bare and beholden to the world. You have thus been spanked, sir.

Originally posted by Gideon
Well that was an interesting way to spent twenty minutes, Faunus.If you're referring to the length of time between your post and mine, I have other things to do on the Internet. It was also eighteen minutes, and I grow tired of repeatedly having to correct you.

I didn't say you did. I noted that if you had claimed to have sex while also proclaiming yourself to be a "true" Christian, you would open yourself up to accusations of hypocrisy or weakness of faith.

Cover thy ass indeed.

That's illegal.

Edit: And my posts keep getting deleted; ****ing pop-ups, erm, pop up, and when I press backspace it actually goes back a page. The internet sucks.

Originally posted by Gideon
I want the statement verbatim.

Pg. 56: "Obi Wan and Vader duel on Mustafar while Yoda and Palpatine duel on Coruscant. Palpatine is too strong for the aging Yoda, who escapes with Bail Organa."

Does anyone have an argument for that?

Originally posted by Gideon
Does anyone have an argument for that?

Sure thing, pal.

George Lucas > reference book. The allmight G-Canon, as present in form of the RotS movie and George Lucas own comment on the issue, labelling Yoda and Sidious equals (or Yoda the superior man - whatever you want to have, except Sidious being the superior combatant) turns the statement in the "Comic Companion" into C-Canon babble contradicting the higher level of canon which can, because of that, be completely ignored.

Thanks for reading.

Query: Where does Lucas explicitly say Yoda and Palpatine were equals? He says Yoda could challenge Palpatine, yes.

There are loads of statements that say that Palpatine was too strong for Yoda in their duel in the Rotunda. But given Yoda's performance in the movie, one could interpret that to be relative to the environment.

Originally posted by Gideon
There are loads of statements that say that Palpatine was too strong for Yoda in their duel in the Rotunda. You said there were none.



To me it looked like Yoda was a bit better with a lightsaber. It seemed as if Sidious was struggling to keep up. Their mastery or the force seemed even. Maybe the book meant Sidious had more raw force power and reserves.

Considering their respective accomplishments as of their duel, I find that somewhat unlikely.

Originally posted by Faunus
Considering their respective accomplishments as of their duel, I find that somewhat unlikely.

What's that?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
He resists something that only works on the weak minded. Given Kaan couldn't manipulate Kopecz, either...so?

It wasn't just that he couldn't manipulate Bane, it was how laughable the effort had been. And he was capable of manipulating Kopekz just like he had all of the other Sith within the Order. And proof that it only worked on the weak minded? It had worked on the entire upper echelon Brotherhood of Darkness, that every single member was somehow weak minded requires some serious proof.



What "weakness?" This sounds like an unsupported assumption. Do you have any proof to suggest that Quordis was in any way weak? He was one of the most respected and important Sith of the entire Order; it's safe to say that he was one of the most powerful of all the Dark Lords given his position, and the manner in which Bane broke through his defences suggested that he was miles ahead of him in ability.



What are you talking about? It was done in the Academy archives, which was the room stated to be capable of housing hundreds of students. I'm sure it's been a while since you read the books but you should at least verify what you're saying if you're going to act like you know what you're talking about.



Nothing even remotely suggests as much.



Could you provide a sourcevastly since.



No it speaks for the fact he would have grown considerably more powerful after each feat in question given when they actually took place. The greatest display of power I mentioned, the channeling of a planetary level ritual, took place after approximately two years of training, and he has since continued to grow in power for a further ten years (five times that amount) up until his latest appearance. As for the greatest display of control: the sub-atomic alterations, they took place after about 7 years of training, and he went on to grow in ability for almost the same amount of time (5 years). Clearly by RoT his level of power and control are far greater than what the feats have thus far shown us, and considering how impressive they actually are, he's arguably unparalleled in both areas as of his current peak.



So the fact that 90% of his body is -- for all intents and purposes in this scenario -- completely invulnerable is somehow irrelevant?



Irrelevant misdirection. We (well, I, at least) are talking about his knowledge here.



Could you provide a source, page number, and quote for that, because, and I mean no offence when I say this, you're a proven liar that has made stuff up in the past and it wouldn't surprise me if this were a complete fabrication.



Rule of Two
As apprentice, Nadd had absorbed all his knowledge and teachings, transferring them into the Holocron before murdering Sadow and taking his place.



No. The source material.



Of course it doesn't; that's probably the only valid thing you've stated this entire thread. Too bad it's completely irrelevant of course, seeing that it's because no such quote existing that it's not true.



Prove. It.

And if you manage to do that, substantiate how it would make up for Bane's demonstratively far superior control of the Force, and the advantages the orbalisks provide. And then substantiate how Yoda compares to Sidious as a combatant.

That Sidious has notably greater reserves of power.

Originally posted by Faunus
That Sidious has notably greater reserves of power.

So what else would the book be refering to?

Originally posted by Faunus
That Sidious has notably greater reserves of power.

That wouldn't surprise me, actually.

Rofl. Nebaris is back at it again.

As or Nai's utterly ridiculous comments:

1. I already provided the contextual comparison; the movies quite effectively establish Yoda as a street level combatants; that he constantly struggles with relatively basic telekinesis (a Force technique that appears to have been his speciality) would quite conclusively establish that he would quite simply not be able to compete with a being possessing a planetary level command of the Force. The rest was to elaborate on Bane's general level of completeness and versatility.

2. The sub-atomic alterations act as a demonstration of control and precision, which is directly proportional with how efficiently Bane would be capable of applying his power on a small scale, which is the most relevant application of power in a direct Force contest between two humanoid sized beings.

3. That Bane displayed a planetary level command of the Force within the settings of a ritual is completely irrelevant; the fact remains that everything Bane had to do was under his own level of ability, there were no artifacts or circumstances used to enhance his level of ability, and no preparation time employed.

4. That Yoda's faster is completely unsupported; even if we were to use secondary evidence, he has never demonstrated the ability to move completely beyond what the Force Sensitive eye can follow (and that's not even mentioning how much more power Bane gains following that demonstration, which was performed after some months of training).

5. That Yoda's the more technically skilled swordsman is again, completely unsupported. Bane's demonstrated an absolutely alarming natural affinity with the lightsaber; he was capable of familiarising himself with every single move and sequence of all seven forms of the lightsaber (for the saber staff), and forming counters for each one, in a matter of months. It's worth noting that these moves and sequences would have numbered in the hundreds of thousands. It's pretty clear that he'd be able to perform absolute wonders with his own form (Djem So) after an entire decade with the weapon. There's also the fact that Bane's overall style of fighting employs his own body (which thanks to the orbalisk's protection is completely invulnerable to the cutting power of the lightsaber) into his attacks in ways that only he could, that ultimately grants him a completely unique style, further tipping the technical advantages in his favour. What's so impressive about Yoda? He was more out of practise with the weapon than anything.

Ok, I agree with you that Bane would probably win, but you completely underestimate Yoda and even overestimate Bane.

How so? Was any of what I said untrue? And if so, what?

Bane's simply better than Yoda. He's demonstratively superior in literally every area. Name one real advantage that Yoda possesses? Bane's infinitely more powerful, has demonstrated an -- in general -- unparalleled level of Force control, that surpasses anything shown by Yoda by miles. He's demonstrated a far greater affinity with the lightsaber and Yoda's superior experience with the weapon is made mostly irrelevant by how out of practise he was with it. Force knowledge, nothing suggests that Yoda's quite on Bane's level, that he's simply had more time to accumulate knowledge can be countered with Bane's abnormal learning rate and dedication to learning. And then of course Bane possesses the orbalisk armour, making approximately 90% of his entire body completely immune to the cutting power of the lightsaber, meaning that Bane can focus almost fully on the offence without sacrificing his defence, integrate his body into his offence and defence in ways that only he can that only adds to his effectiveness as a fighter and how unfamiliar a combatant he would be. Yoda doesn't stand a chance here and if you think differently you're undeniably retarded.

Nebaris, I would have thought you would realize that your bullshit doesn't play anymore. You parroting the same lost arguments month after month won't change facts.

Again, I'm going to "parrot" what i just said: "How so? Was any of what I said untrue? And if so, what?"

Give me the specifics.

Is it the logic or the evidence that you sense fault with? Again, specifics.

What's the point honestly? Your arguments have been defeated time and time again, only for you to come back and waste everyone's time with the same nonsense. What benefit do I get from pointing out your bullshit if you're just going to throw it back on this forum next month? You lack any kind of credibility for anybody to take you seriously and/or debate with you. You're just buying your time until your next ban.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
yeah, not like Bane has his head totally uncovered and vulnerable.

Bane "had his head totally uncovered and vulnerable" when he fought Raskta, Valenthyne and Johun. That's three opponents, one of which was the Jedi Weapons Master and the best swordsman of her Era, another was also a highly skilled duellist. All three had their powers amped up by Battle Meditation. And despite all of that none of them were able to land a blow on Bane's head. Heck, they couldn't even drive him back. The best they could do was hold their ground.

Don't forget he has his lightsabre to parry blows aimed at his head, or his armoured forearms.

So? Please prove that any 3 of these aside from the weapons master, were worth anything? How does this even compare to him facing Yoda, who dodged 3 jedi without the use of his lightsaber?

Originally posted by Weaboo
It wasn't just that he couldn't manipulate Bane, it was how laughable the effort had been. And he was capable of manipulating Kopekz just like he had all of the other Sith within the Order. And proof that it only worked on the weak minded? It had worked on the entire upper echelon Brotherhood of Darkness, that every single member was somehow weak minded requires some serious proof.

What "weakness?" This sounds like an unsupported assumption. Do you have any proof to suggest that Quordis was in any way weak? He was one of the most respected and important Sith of the entire Order; it's safe to say that he was one of the most powerful of all the Dark Lords given his position, and the manner in which Bane broke through his defences suggested that he was miles ahead of him in ability.



Precisely. I do not understand why people keep describing the BoD as 'weak,' when they were able to stalemate the Jedi for years on Ruusan. If they were as feeble as some posters seem to think they'd have been wiped out long ago.

Heck, Bane himself admits that Kaan "had never been weak" in RoT.

And yes, Kaan could manipulate Kopecz, he just had more difficulty with him than most. Kopecz cheered and went along with them to create the thought bomb, he just came to his senses in time to escape the caves.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
So? Please prove that any 3 of these aside from the weapons master, were worth anything?

"To (Zannah's) surprise, both of Bane's opponents were still standing: proof they were exceptionally skilled combatants."

"He had forgotten how much quicker and stronger the Ithorian's amazing talent made him feel."

"Farfalla struck with clean, elegant blows, his form perfect as he harried Bane's right flank."

Plus, Valenthyne notices the shape of Bane's lightsabre's hilt (which is hook-handled, altering the angle of attack), processes the information and adjust's his own weapon's course to block in a fraction of a second.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
How does this even compare to him facing Yoda, who dodged 3 jedi without the use of his lightsaber?

When was this? How good were those three? Did they have a Battle Meditation expert amping their power?

And Bane didn't need to 'dodge' them. They couldn't force him to move, they could only keep him from forcing them back.

Sorry didn't mean to double post.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Sorry didn't mean to double post.

You mean triple post.

EDIT:

I believe it was Raskta who noticed the Bane's ligthsaber hilt and warned Valenthyne of it.

Yoda won't be able to get through the orablisks, therefore Bane wins.

If Johun Othone was able to cut Bane's wrist, then Yoda who is a 1000x's the swordsman Othone is, could penetrate them too.

Well considering that Yoda is in exactly the same situation as Johun, as in he has two battle-hardened Jedi Master's fighting with him then I see no flaw in that logic.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
I believe it was Raskta who noticed the Bane's ligthsaber hilt and warned Valenthyne of it.

I stand corrected. She shouted "the handle!" However Valenthyne still interpreted exactly what that meant (the handle was hooked which changed the angle of attack) and reacted accordingly, by adjusting the angle of his block, within a fraction of a second.

Originally posted by Lethal Rogue
Yoda RAN from Sidious knowing he couldn't win. Also, I never said Bane PERSONALLY destroyed the brotherhood. I was just listing his feats, and one was wiping out the brotherhood, so get over it. Denying that he got rid of them is just stubborn of you, which you just so happen to be.

idk what page this thread is on now but this is from pg one..

u know that Palpy was the one trying to escape before the fight? wouldn't that mean that Palpy was the one running? not yoda..

Yoda didn't have that much power to defeat Palpatine in his own environment, so he tried to take him by surprise and failed. Also when did Palpatine try to escape?

EDIT: He was sitting at his desk, presumably waiting.

Originally posted by beggars
Yoda didn't have that much power to defeat Palpatine in his own environment, so he tried to take him by surprise and failed. Also when did Palpatine try to escape?When he jumped towards the door.

He didn't even know Yoda was still alive.

Ah yes he did jump, but only after he shocked Yoda. When Yoda got up, he realised that if Force Lightning would not kill him, he certainly could not defeat him in lightsaber combat. So it was a smart choice rather than simply fleeing.

No one said it wasn't a smart idea.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Bane "had his head totally uncovered and vulnerable" when he fought Raskta, Valenthyne and Johun. That's three opponents, one of which was the Jedi Weapons Master and the best swordsman of her Era, another was also a highly skilled duellist. All three had their powers amped up by Battle Meditation. And despite all of that none of them were able to land a blow on Bane's head. Heck, they couldn't even drive him back. The best they could do was hold their ground.

Don't forget he has his lightsabre to parry blows aimed at his head, or his armoured forearms.

Any of the aforementioned have Yoda's speed, agility or size advantage? Or power? Or skill? No. Yoda's got the firm advantage

Originally posted by Lethal Rogue
Yoda won't be able to get through the orablisks, therefore Bane wins.

Why don't you stop squealing this over and over again and respond when someone challenge you and stop ****ing ignoring as people have pointed out that Bane's head is totally uncovered? In other words, start debating and defend your point.

Originally posted by Weaboo
It wasn't just that he couldn't manipulate Bane, it was how laughable the effort had been. And he was capable of manipulating Kopekz just like he had all of the other Sith within the Order. And proof that it only worked on the weak minded? It had worked on the entire upper echelon Brotherhood of Darkness, that every single member was somehow weak minded requires some serious proof.

OMG, Bane has a strong mind! And? And when does Kaan mind trick every one of the BoD? Hell, Kopecz's loyalty to the Brotherhood was all that kept him from overthrowing Kaan! He was frequently expressing displeasure in Kaan



Prove Qordis is powerful in the slightest. Go on. The BoD were a pack of, mostly? Weaklings. And this is constantly supported



Good thing I do. And he blasts lightning in the archives. Wow.



Except everything written on Holocrons


Nice quote from TFN:
Each holocron matrix had to meet perilous specifications, usually requiring thousands of precise alterations and adjustments on a subatomic level. Only through the power of the Force could one ensure that each crystalline strand was properly aligned.




And in the EU, stated by Leland Chee to be valid, he does. And btw, at his best? Bane doesn't move faster than JOHUN'S eye can see. Whoops



Bane moving to kill someone as fast as he possibly can is still visible to Johun. Sorry



Prove it. Nothing hints this is 'planetary.' And this is a ritual, not using Bane's own true power. Given random Sith sorceress can do this on Ambria with far less, so WHAT?



Yawn. Prove up. Everything you've said has been taken apart



As he'll still get his ass kicked, yes.


Have an 'incredible' knowledge of the force means nothing. Of course.



I'll tell you, the only 'proven liar' here, that you're a laughable little dolt, cite the visual dictionaries, ultimate visual guide, new essential guide to characters and laugh at your idiocy.
What have I lied about, you annoying little brat? In fact, my 'lies' are only there when I cite sources that disprove you.



Fair enough



So, in the movies, Yoda is seen saying "Not a scholar, am I?"


Stupidity from Nebaris? NEVER



Dark side sourcebook, sorry!

Either he's equal or superior to him. By 'the source material' as you always squeal. And Bane has never demonstrated superior command of the force, sorry, and Palpatine is stated to be more powerful.

Sorry.
Brat.

Lightsnake, you make it sound like a kid with a BB gun could shoot Bane in the face because his head is "unprotected" by the impenetrable armor that covers the rest of his body. Never mind that he was both one of the most powerful Force-users and one of the deadliest swordsman in the mythos. And let's ignore the fact that he can devote his vast speed and physical strength almost entirely to offense, because a lightsaber blow to almost anywhere on his body will simply bounce off, and any wound that doesn't take off a hand or outright kill him will heal completely in a matter of seconds.

And let's get this straight; Bane was backed up against a wall with three Jedi slashing away at his head. Three Jedi empowered by battle meditation, one of whom was probably the greatest swordsman in the galaxy, and another proclaimed by the omniscient narrator to be an "exceptional" Jedi Master. Even Johun was useful there, as it was noted that Raskta actually managed to integrate his unfocused, chaotic strikes into her own assault. As good as Yoda is, he cannot aim as many blows at Bane's head as three BM'd, adult, Force-sensitive hominids and their four lightsabers. He'd have to either levitate himself - which, according to Ganner Rhysode, is tiring when done over a long period of time - or manipulate his lightsaber telekinetically to maintain a consistent rate of attack at a position five feet over his head. His size may increase his evasiveness, but it also greatly hinders his overall effectiveness against Bane.

Originally posted by Faunus
Lightsnake, you make it sound like a kid with a BB gun could shoot Bane in the face because his head is "unprotected" by the impenetrable armor that covers the rest of his body. Never mind that he was both one of the most powerful Force-users and one of the deadliest swordsman in the mythos. And let's ignore the fact that he can devote his vast speed and physical strength almost entirely to offense, because a lightsaber blow to almost anywhere on his body will simply bounce off, and any wound that doesn't take off a hand or outright kill him will heal completely in a matter of seconds.
He is, however, facing an opponent who is also one of the most powerful force users-more powerful than Bane himself- and one of the deadliest swordsmen as well. And in a fight like this, there isn't a blow Yoda could score that'd be anything less than a killing or crippling wound. Add that to Yoda's incredible speed and agility, plus his size, which, with Bane's style focusing on vicious hammer blows with little defense badly limits him against the small, incredible fast opponent able to get inside Bane's guard and reach. As well as not be blown over by Bane's physical strength. Yoda's force enhanced abilities in strength are nothing short of incredible there


He was not backed up against a wall, he was the one face the wall with them standing between him and Worror.

And I am not suggesting Yoda's speed is to that degree. However, Yoda has demonstrated the speed, if I hear correctly, to evade three Jedi masters at once, including Depa Billaba. He also has the benefit of being so small that it could throw Bane's entire balance off. He doesn't exactly need to rain blows on Bane continuously, he needs to fight smart and fast.


All he needs to do is use his own agility and he can jump much higher than just two meters without any issues whatsoever. All he needs to do is dodge in the right place, leap and cut.

Originally posted by Faunus
Lightsnake, you make it sound like a kid with a BB gun could shoot Bane in the face because his head is "unprotected" by the impenetrable armor that covers the rest of his body. Never mind that he was both one of the most powerful Force-users and one of the deadliest swordsman in the mythos. And let's ignore the fact that he can devote his vast speed and physical strength almost entirely to offense, because a lightsaber blow to almost anywhere on his body will simply bounce off, and any wound that doesn't take off a hand or outright kill him will heal completely in a matter of seconds.

And let's get this straight; Bane was backed up against a wall with three Jedi slashing away at his head. Three Jedi empowered by battle meditation, one of whom was probably the greatest swordsman in the galaxy, and another proclaimed by the omniscient narrator to be an "exceptional" Jedi Master. Even Johun was useful there, as it was noted that Raskta actually managed to integrate his unfocused, chaotic strikes into her own assault. As good as Yoda is, he cannot aim as many blows at Bane's head as three BM'd, adult, Force-sensitive hominids and their four lightsabers. He'd have to either levitate himself - which, according to Ganner Rhysode, is tiring when done over a long period of time - or manipulate his lightsaber telekinetically to maintain a consistent rate of attack at a position five feet over his head. His size may increase his evasiveness, but it also greatly hinders his overall effectiveness against Bane.

I was about to say basically that, but you were much, much more eloquent. My hat's off to you.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
OMG, Bane has a strong mind! And? And when does Kaan mind trick every one of the BoD? Hell, Kopecz's loyalty to the Brotherhood was all that kept him from overthrowing Kaan! He was frequently expressing displeasure in Kaan

He held the entire BoD together by using subtle mind manipulations. Plus he persuaded them all to create the thought bomb, including Kopecz (although he snapped out of it in time to get out of the caves).

"Even with his ability to manipulate and influence the minds of the other Dark Lords"

"(Kopecz) was also one of the most difficult to influence and control."

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Prove Qordis is powerful in the slightest. Go on. The BoD were a pack of, mostly? Weaklings. And this is constantly supported


Qordis was head of the Sith Academy. That alone shows he's high up on the ladder.

Again, if the BoD were such 'weaklings,' why weren't they wiped out years ago? They kept the Jedi deadlocked in battle on Ruusan for years. Bane himself admits that Kaan "had never been weak."

Originally posted by chilled monkey
He held the entire BoD together by using subtle mind manipulations. Plus he persuaded them all to create the thought bomb, including Kopecz (although he snapped out of it in time to get out of the caves).

"Even with his ability to manipulate and influence the minds of the other Dark Lords"

"(Kopecz) was also one of the most difficult to influence and control."
Going from memory, but Kopecz treats the idea of the Thought Bomb, after vague initial enthusiasm, with utter pessimism. Fromn Jedi vs. Sith, the Sith aren't happy with the Thought Bomb idea, either and most adopt an air of sheer fatalism. Githany outright deserts and Kopecz basically resigns himself. It seems less Kaan controlling their minds and more his really, really good skills at political maneuvering.

And most of the BoD were in thrall to him due to his charisma and their belief in the brotherhood. There's nothing of him ever using mind mojo on Kopecz given Kopecz frequently challenged his decisions and when Kaan sometimes gives him orders, Kopecz shouts at him.



Well, presumably there's the detail of them having a giant military force with a giant navy. Given that the BoD's great hope depended on making a bunch of trainees Dark Lords? Comparatively speaking, a guy like Qordis is really nothing to a number of Dark Lords we've seen. Do you really think people like Qel-Droma, Malak, Ragnos or hell, even Jerec would have an altogether difficult time with him?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Going from memory, but Kopecz treats the idea of the Thought Bomb, after vague initial enthusiasm, with utter pessimism. Fromn Jedi vs. Sith, the Sith aren't happy with the Thought Bomb idea, either and most adopt an air of sheer fatalism. Githany outright deserts and Kopecz basically resigns himself. It seems less Kaan controlling their minds and more his really, really good skills at political maneuvering.

And most of the BoD were in thrall to him due to his charisma and their belief in the brotherhood. There's nothing of him ever using mind mojo on Kopecz given Kopecz frequently challenged his decisions and when Kaan sometimes gives him orders, Kopecz shouts at him.

I just posted two quotes that flat-out state that Kaan could and did mentally influence/control the BoD members. Here they are again:

"Even with his ability to manipulate and influence the minds of the other Dark Lords"

"(Kopecz) was also one of the most difficult to influence and control." How would Kaan even know that unless he had done it before?

Sure he was highly charismatic and great with words, but he could and did use 'mind mojo' to supplement that when needed.

And it wasn't "vague enthusiasm." He "cheered" and "eagerly joined in the throng"


Originally posted by Lightsnake
Well, presumably there's the detail of them having a giant military force with a giant navy. Given that the BoD's great hope depended on making a bunch of trainees Dark Lords? Comparatively speaking, a guy like Qordis is really nothing to a number of Dark Lords we've seen. Do you really think people like Qel-Droma, Malak, Ragnos or hell, even Jerec would have an altogether difficult time with him?

Kopecz stated that the Army of Light was formed purely to destroy the Sith, not their soldiers. He suggested sending their fleet to Ruusan but Kaan refused as this would mean giving up all the ground they had won. Kaan instead ordered that all the Sith gather into an army and fight the AoL on Ruusan while their fleets (or at least the bulk of them) stayed away.

So on Ruusan, it was basically a Sith army vs a Jedi one. And they were at a stalemate for years.

With Qordis, it's impossible to say how well those guys would fair against him due to his lack of feats. For example, for all we know, Qordis could have been a very good duellist (no-where as good as Bane, Kas'im etc but still good). We can't say one way or the other as we never see him fight. But by the same token do you really think someone like say, Johun would have easily beaten him?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
He is, however, facing an opponent who is also one of the most powerful force users-more powerful than Bane himself- and one of the deadliest swordsmen as well.I realize. And unlike what you're doing with Bane, I'm not glossing over it.

That makes no sense. At all.

Good Lord.

He tanks hits because he can, not because he needs to. As he demonstrates rather well against the Jedi trio, his lightsaber defense is superb as well. Without it, there's no way he could've blocked strikes aimed at his head from three different people.

And I'll add that while Bane is primarily a Djem So practitioner, he is familiar enough with Soresu to have taught it to Zannah. He isn't limited to hammer strokes.

Unless Yoda pulls an Anakin and grabs Bane's wrists together, getting inside his reach is going to jack shit. The armor will protect everything but his wrists, ankles, and head, and he still has his rather considerable reserves of Force-energy.

Granted.

Upon looking at it again - the Russian site - there is no wall. My mistake.

The novel, however, notes that while their combined efforts managed to put him in a defensive position, they couldn't drive him back; the best they could do was hold their ground. The second Johun scored a hit Bane hurled them ten meters through the air and went after Worror.

And let's keep in mind that, despite having his strength, speed, and skill amplified by battle meditation, and despite the fact that he had two Jedi Masters - one of whom was a master swordsman wielding two lightabers - who were also being empowered by the same source, Johun's cut against Bane was only "shallow." The gap is centimeters-wide, if even that. Alone, without any assistance, and with his single lightsaber, Yoda is going to have to work hard for any blow he lands, significant or otherwise.

I've never actually seen the quote myself, but I'll take your word for it, since it's so commonly circulated.

Uh, how?

That might cut it with pretty much anyone else he would have to fight, but he needs to do a hell of a lot more to kill Bane.

This is one aspect of your arguments that I take serious issue with. You make it seem so easy. You make it seem like Bane's size, strength, speed, skill, power, and ****ing armor are just non-factors, because he's fighting "OMg YODa!1!!". It's more than irksome; it's disrespectful to the person you're debating, and it's a waste of my time. The next post needs to actually address my points, or I'm done.

Originally posted by Faunus
I realize. And unlike what you're doing with Bane, I'm not glossing over it.

That makes no sense. At all.
Unlike Johun Othone, if Yoda gets a hit on Bane, it's going to be a blow that either cripples or kills Bane, given that it really can't be anything else. either it slices through Bane's head or a limb.

I'm not focusing on WHY Bane fights how he does, we both know why that is. The fact is, I'm talking about how his fighting style will go in this fight. He's going to fight exactly as he usually does against Yoda, too.


I'm rather sure RoT says he totally eschews defense generally. Though, I'll grant this.

It'll matter quite a bit if Bane swings and Yoda jumps close enough to slice at Bane's head before he can recover from the strike. An opponent as small as Yoda getting inside the guard of someone like Bane does account for something. And unlike Farfalla and Raskta, Yoda has the benefit of having reserves of lightside power that very likely surpass Bane's reserves. Oh, and having gaps on his ankles are probably a bad thing to have in this fight.

Bane exploded there, yes. However, it's worth noting Johun managed to bungle that completely and not take Bane's hand. IF it had been, say, Raskta or Farfalla swinging, I've little doubt Bane is holding a cauterized stump. They were all at an impasse and don't forget, Bane had an advantage against them that he will not have on Yoda: A curved hilt

I didn't say otherwise. Thing is, though, Yoda's powers of prescience and his experience eclipses those three. And as you pointed out, Bane's got gaps on his ankles. The very nature of the combatants is going to mean Bane will need to adjust his style for a very tiny opponent who isn't going to be outmuscled and isn't going to easily tire. More likely than not, Yoda will focus on striking at Bane's head and he's good enough to land the hits

A seven foot tall man striking downwards at a two foot tall imp? That's not exactly an ideal combatant


Both Bane and Yoda need pretty much the same thing: to land one single, good hit on a small target. And I see no reason that Yoda, a more powerful, more experienced and quite probably more agile, faster and more skilled will not be able to land it. Yoda's size is a disadvantage for Bane here. Yoda, however, has been shown incorporating acrobatics that are key against opponents like Bane constantly, and has leaps distances over twice that of Bane's entire body without issue.


I'm not making it sound easy. The problem is, people are seeming to believe Bane is going to easily and quickly land a blow on a much faster, smaller opponent who can match or surpass him in almost every single aspect save for durability. Yoda, like Bane, needs one good strike in this fight-a leap and a slash. And I'm not seeing how the odds will be against him getting it.

The problem is? Yoda can match Bane in strength, he can surpass him in skill, speed and power. Bane's survival depends on Yoda not being able to slice his head off-or open before he himself lands a hit, and that's pretty undeniable

Originally posted by chilled monkey
I just posted two quotes that flat-out state that Kaan could and did mentally influence/control the BoD members. Here they are again:

"Even with his ability to manipulate and influence the minds of the other Dark Lords"

"(Kopecz) was also one of the most difficult to influence and control." How would Kaan even know that unless he had done it before?
I'm not denying Kaan was able to mind trick them subtly-he does it to Kas'im at one point, but all together? At the very same time? And as for Kopecz...that doesn't indicate he's mind tricking Kopecz. It just means Kopecz is one of the Sith Lords more inclined to not speak out against Kaan and if he was routinely mind screwing Kopecz, it'd be helpful to do that instead of vainly shrieking at him to keep his voice down

Yes, but he relied mostly on the former

Perhaps I'm mixing Kopecz in JvS with BoD. However, the whole Thought Bomb thing, to my recollection, in PoD was less Kopecz being actively controlled than him later getting his bearings.




The 'Sith' can refer to all of them, their entire forces, just as it did every other time the Sith militarily threatened the galaxy. And on Ruusan, there were numerous, NUMEROUS soldiers who weren't even force sensitive and many who were like the Shadow Assassins. The Army was meant to destroy the Sith, but the Brotherhood did place a massive amount of troops on Ruusan. In one battle, not a single Dark Lord even fought.

Err...I'm rather certain the number of non force sensitive soldiers far outnumbered the Jedi and Sith soldiers there. Don't forget all the Republic soldiers there who joined Hoth.

I'd give Qordis the benefit of the doubt against someone like Johun, just like I would against a few other people. But against people who have at least decent showings?

Yoda won't be able to get through the orbalisks easily though.

He doesn't need to 'get through' the orbalisks. He needs to land a strike on where the orbalisks don't protect. And Bane, likewise, needs to hit a small, much faster, more skilled and more powerful target. So, Lethal Rogue, anything to say besides "He won't get through the orbalisks?' Nobody is saying it will be easy, but quit acting like the orbalisks will equal an instant win.

I'm acting like that because the Orbalisks will make him win. They increase his power a ton and give him an almost impenetrable defense. Bane could easily just block his head the whole time and not worry about the rest of his body.

Originally posted by Lethal Rogue
I'm acting like that because the Orbalisks will make him win. They increase his power a ton and give him an almost impenetrable defense. Bane could easily just block his head the whole time and not worry about the rest of his body.

Yeah, he can just block his head. And yoda can't 'just block' his body...why? How'll they make him win when his HEAD IS UNCOVERED AS A TARGET TO A FASTER, BETTER OPPONENT who is far more agile than Bane has ever encountered?How is Bane going to get the hit? Even with the power increase we saw, Bane's skill and power do NOT surpass Yoda's. What part of this is hard for you?

Lightsnake, why do you keep saying that Yoda is faster than Bane as if it's retardedly obvious? Why do you say that his skill completely eclipses Bane's like Bane's blind and limbless? And why do you say that he's more powerful like Bane's a cub scout with a fork compared to Godzilla? You underestimate Bane to a frightening degree.

IMO

Sabers is probably going to Bane. He has the speed and skill to keep up with Yoda as well as the smarts to fight someone of Yoda's size. On top of that he has the (moan about it all you want) orbalisks which give him the edge in most fights and enough advantage's to beat Yoda . This would undoubtably be an epic but Bane will eventually edge it by stamina 7/10.

Force will be another close fight but I also see Bane taking this.
The reason being that Yoda was struggling to contain The Emperor's lightning in thier duel and as of ROT Bane's lightning is (arguably) more powerful than ROTS Palpatines lightning. Notwithstanding Bane's massive offensive power which has him effortlessly slicing through FShield's. Bane 7-8/10

Overall as long as Bane fights smart and doesn't do any pointblank FL work that could bite him in the arse I can see him winning 6-7/10.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
IMO

Sabers is probably going to Bane. He has the speed and skill to keep up with Yoda as well as the smarts to fight someone of Yoda's size. On top of that he has the (moan about it all you want) orbalisks which give him the edge in most fights and enough advantage's to beat Yoda . This would undoubtably be an epic but Bane will eventually edge it by stamina 7/10. I don't see it happening like that at all. When has Bane ever fought someone as fast or the size of Yoda? It takes a lot more precision to strike something small and fast, than to something bigger and not as fast. Three masters could not even touch Yoda while he was unarmed. Yoda's agility is the best we have seen in SW.

I heard the arguement somewhere on here "It has never been stated that Yoda can move faster than the eye can see". When Palpatine dueled Windu, Anakin described them as being blurs. Now it would not make sense that Palpatine dueled Windu with that type of speed and not Yoda. In the movie Palpatine seems to be getting frustrated with his duel against Yoda, but easily killed three greatly accomplished duelists in seconds.

You see Bane winning a force fight?

Darth Sidious was already the most powerful sith lord in history, by the time of his duel with Yoda, according to the New Essential Guide. Sidious was barely powerful enough to overcome Yoda, but not kill him. I don't see how Bane would win a force fight if Sidious couldn't.

I disagree completely.

Bane has fought BM'ed Raskta who attacked 'too quickly for the eye to see', who was able to move her 'arms and blades' as 'a blur' and was faster than lightning to a standstill while fighting Farfalla and Johun. As well as Nebaris' much bandied about Sirak fight.



Despite this been heralded as Yoda's greatest advantage I don't see how this will prove clinching. It's not like Bane's blind or clumsy enough not to be able to raise his saber to block Yoda's. It's not exactly a hard skill to use. Or a specilised anti-Yoda technique. Dooku and Sidious fought him without using any particularly variations beyond the usual slash-parry stuff. No special fighting styles or outlandish moves needed.



That's why I said they where close in speed, but Bane has pretty damn good speed too. You can't completely disregard Bane with shoddy ABC logic.




You didn't even read my post did you? Not to mention that ABC logic doesn't stand here.

Bane can turn 'a dozen' technobeasts into 'dust and tiny flecks of small, twisted metal' with TK and still have enough energy to fight for another hour. Bane's lightning, as of POD, can reduce opponents 'to ash', which is better than ROTS sidious' lightning feats. Etc etc.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Bane has fought BM'ed Raskta who attacked 'too quickly for the eye to see', who was able to move her 'arms and blades' as 'a blur' and was faster than lightning to a standstill while fighting Farfalla and Johun. As well as Nebaris' much bandied about Sirak fight.
Yes, in Nebaris's world, every padawan in Karpyshyn's books can move 'faster than the eye can see.' Hell, JOHUN is described such. Raskta's speed has no been shown to exceed someone who can outright confound people like Depa Billaba with his own speed.
So, sorry, Raskta as an example? fails


For one thing, neither Dooku or Palpatine are as savage in their strikes as Bane. Djem So is a terrible style to have when you need speed as well as precision. A 'specialized Anto-Yoda' technique? What would this be, exactly? Oh, and Dooku actually had experience, y'know, fighting Yoda as his student



'Pretty' good speed does not mean his speed is 'close'. From what we have seen, yoda is more agile and faster than Bane. Guess what? That makes a big difference. armor aside, what advantage does Bane have here?




Oh, look, Exodus avoiding answering and complaining. We've never seen that before. Guess what? Yoda, in the force is equal or superior to someone more powerful and knowledgable than Bane in the force

He also had the orbalisks feeding into him.

Yes, this is great, but how, exactly, does this factor into Bane being more powerful than Yoda? The guy who singlehandedly turned an entire droid army into scrap? And Palpatine's lightning turned a giant Sith wyrm into a charred hulk without any apparent effort in Sithisis. Not just charred, given it seemed to crumple to ash right after he pushed his way out of it.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Three masters could not even touch Yoda while he was unarmed. Yoda's agility is the best we have seen in SW.


Again, when did this actually happen?

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Bane has fought BM'ed Raskta who attacked 'too quickly for the eye to see', who was able to move her 'arms and blades' as 'a blur' and was faster than lightning to a standstill while fighting Farfalla and Johun. As well as Nebaris' much bandied about Sirak fight. Are you comparing them to Yoda? Not only was Yoda able to move his arms fast, but his entire body as well. Yoda was able to move his entire body from spot A to B to C in seconds( now there is some abc logic. lol j/k). Yoda is able to make his entire body a blur.



Dooku was forced to flee, and Sidious was forced to change tactics. Sure Bane may last a while with Yoda, but i see Yoda eventually wearing him down, or forcing him to change tactics, which would most likely be a force duel. I do not see Bane winning a force duel.



I am not disregarding Bane's speed, but his does not have the agility Yoda does.




I am going by Banes chances of beating Yoda in a force duel. Sidious being the most powerful sith in history had a higher chance of defeating Yoda than Bane would. I don't see how it would be abc logic, unless Bane can exploit a weakness about Yoda that Sidious couldn't.

He has never turned anyone to ash that were as powerful as Yoda or Mace. Bane's lightning was caught by a lightsaber, while Sidious blasted Yoda's right out of his hand. Lightning seems to be an expression of raw force power, which Sidious has more than Bane, seeing how he is more powerful than Bane by that time.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
A seven foot tall man striking downwards at a two foot tall imp? That's not exactly an ideal combatant

Bane states that he is two meters tall. I believe that's about six foot six.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
The 'Sith' can refer to all of them, their entire forces, just as it did every other time the Sith militarily threatened the galaxy.

No, Kopecz flat-out stated "They don't care about our soldiers and fleets anymore. All they want to do is wipe us out: the apprentices, the acolytes, the Sith Masters... and especially the Dark Lords."

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Again, when did this actually happen?

I want to say that it happened in "Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter" but don't quote me on it.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Bane states that he is two meters tall. I believe that's about six foot six.
You're correct, but even so.



How does that contradict what I said? 'The Sith forces' aren't singularly used to refer to the Dark Lords.

No.

For a start, Johun's speed is described as 'faster than the eye can follow'. Meaning that the saber is still visible, just faster than the eye can flick around in the socket or get a fixed lock on it. 'Faster than the eye can see' is moving so fast the eye can't even make an image. Which, considering that a lightsaber is a huge glowstick, is very impressive and much better than a 'blur'.

Secondly, when has Depa's speed been indicated to be anything impressive? And for that matter, when has Yoda been shown to match Raskta's faster than lightning feat?



Bane does know the other forms and isn't stupid enough to try his usual Djem so clubbing attack's on someone of Yoda's obvious advantage. At the very least he knows Soresu to teach Zannah the form etc. And anyway Bane is incredibly fast as well as having the orbalisks to make alot of unexpected moves which will be enough to fight evenly with Yoda. Plus having a slightly imprecise fighting style won't guananty Bane's loss.

And the whole, 'experience fighting Yoda' thing is what I'm talking about. What, does that give him a bunch of Anti-Yoda techniques that go beyond slash and parry attacks. Or key insights into Yoda's fighting style that aren't immediately obvious. Becuase I saw neither in the two fights.



I haven't. Could you try backing stuff up please, becuase these meaningless statements are getting tiresome.



Please don't get personal. It would be nice if we could debate in a civil manner on the issue, not on our personality defects or how much we piss each other off.



Raw power doesn't equal an instant win. I have sources that show that Bane's FL is more effective and powerful than Palpatines as of ROTS.

And on to Sidious' supposed superiority to Bane. How big is this power gap? 1% stronger? 5%? 100%? 0.0000001%?



So did Bane. Belia Darza's technobeast's definately count as an army and are even refered to as such.



Am I wrong in thinling that Sithisis is after ROTS? And for that matter lets not forget that Bane 's lightning as of POD was capable of doing the same thing to a Drexl. Now I don't know about scale but bear in mind that Bane has 10 years of growth and training aferwards as well as the addition of the orbalisks to amp his power.

I still stand by my view on this fight. But I'm tired now (It's 11 in England) so I'll try to reply in the morning.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
You're correct, but even so.

True. I'm just picky about stuff like this.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
How does that contradict what I said? 'The Sith forces' aren't singularly used to refer to the Dark Lords.

I pointed out that the BoD had stalemated the AoL for years. You responded that that was due to their armies.

I explained that Kaan did not want to bring the BoD's regular fleets as that would mean they'd lose the worlds they had conquered. He gathered Sith from across all the BoD's training facilities to form an army to fight the Aol instead.

I also pointed out that the AoL was created specifically to destroy the Sith. You claimed that "the Sith" could include their regular armies.

I then provided a quote that clearly demonstrated that the AoL was created only to destroy the actual Sith themselves (i.e. the actual Dark Side users), not their soldiers and fleets.

"They don't care about our soldiers and fleets anymore. All they want to do is wipe us out: the apprentices, the acolytes, the Sith Masters... and especially the Dark Lords."

Kopecz makes a very clear distinction here between the actual Sith and the conventional military forces they employ.

Clear?

Originally posted by chilled monkey
True. I'm just picky about stuff like this.


I pointed out that the BoD had stalemated the AoL for years. You responded that that was due to their armies.
Also worth pointing out the bulk of the BoD was on Ruusan.
The forces raging across the galaxy?


The AoL got its start sweeping across, liberating Sith worlds. In effect, it was to break Sith control. And apparently the Sith were lacking heavily in numbers


Yes, and they were in a tactical stalemate with them on Ruusan. Most times the Sith and Jedi seemed to fight, the Sith lost pretty badly. They lost, IIRC, all but two of the battles according to NEC and one of those was a fleet battle.

ALSO worth pointing out is the 'any more.' The AoL had been sweeping over, destroying Sith forces across the galaxy until Kaan was forced to Ruusan due to its strategic importance.

Moreover, nothing in that indicates the 'The Sith' are used to refer to and only to the Dark Siders.

Point out where he does so?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yeah, he can just block his head. And yoda can't 'just block' his body...why? How'll they make him win when his HEAD IS UNCOVERED AS A TARGET TO A FASTER, BETTER OPPONENT who is far more agile than Bane has ever encountered?How is Bane going to get the hit? Even with the power increase we saw, Bane's skill and power do NOT surpass Yoda's. What part of this is hard for you?
As Exodus said, you underestimate Bane a lot. What proof do you have that Yoda is a faster, better opponent? And what proof do you have that Bane has never fought anyone that powerful?

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
No.

For a start, Johun's speed is described as 'faster than the eye can follow'. Meaning that the saber is still visible, just faster than the eye can flick around in the socket or get a fixed lock on it. 'Faster than the eye can see' is moving so fast the eye can't even make an image. Which, considering that a lightsaber is a huge glowstick, is very impressive and much better than a 'blur'.
Gotta love how the Bane fankids find a way to distort canon. Johun's speed is 'swifter than the eye can follow.' And it's described that as 'how he's moving.' So, really. Spare me.


'Faster than lightning, now?'
And given Depa's speed is on par with Mace and enough to butcher an entire ship's crew in an incredibly short time...
And then there's Yoda's 'dodge the three masters faster than the eye can see' feat. The better question? What has Raskta done to compare to Yoda in speed?


So what? Dooku knows all the forms enough to teach them to Grievous, that doesn't mean he's nearly as effective without Makashi.
And what are these unexpected moves? Like YODA, with more experience, combat ability and utter familiarity with anything Bane can throw out, won't be able to be 'unexpected' by utilizing a way of fighting Bane has never encountered? And having an imprecise fighting style against an utterly precise, faster, more agile, more skilled, more powerful opponent won't guarantee his loss. It'll just help it along.



Well, gee, it only gives Dooku insight to how Yoda fights, his fighting style and all...and what, is Dooku supposed to scream "I've seen this before" randomly? Dooku has experience with Yoda. Bane does not.



Oh, from you, this is HILARIOUS, with you bleating how Bane'll somehow pull out unexpected moves with no proof or evidence.
and Yoda? Able to dance in between storms of blaster fire from an entire droid army and hailfire missiles with no issue? Able to move faster than the eyes of trained Jedi can see? Able to utterly leave Dooku in the dust with his speed while Dooku is enhanced on Vjun and Yoda is distracted? Able to keep pace with Palpatine, able to effortlessly kill two of the best duelists in Jedi Order history before they could react?
Yeah, where precisely has Bane demonstrated speed to Yoda's degree, let alone agility?



You don't want people to comment on you? Then fix your issues.


No, you don't. I have a source that counters that: Sithisis.

The gap is there, I'm afraid and given Palpatine's knowledge base in comparison, it's likely not an infinitesimal once. And yeah, raw power doesn't equal victory. How about superior skill? Experience? Speed? Skill?



Unlike Bane, Yoda didn't need orbalisks to save him. And I'm gonna wager an entire planetary army of droids, plus a hailfire is a lot, lot larger than the technobeasts.



Yes.

The 'same thing?' Bane turned the drexl into a 'charred hulk.' Palpatine's turned the larger Sith Wyrm to standing dust. Unless you have proof Bane's force lightning increased in power and potency, then I'd advise you drop the point.

Why am I not surprised on the former here? It's rather apparent that no amount of reasoning or logic will sway you. Nebaris has always said it and you fall into lock step.

Originally posted by Lethal Rogue
As Exodus said, you underestimate Bane a lot. What proof do you have that Yoda is a faster, better opponent? And what proof do you have that Bane has never fought anyone that powerful?

Oh, either argue or concede, because you've done nothing but play cheerleader.
Yoda's demonstrated superior speed and skill. In that he's actually moved faster than the eyes of trained Jedi eyes can see. Guess what? When Bane, at his best, was fighting Farfalla, Raskta and Johun? They SEE HIM moving. Who's faster? Better? Let's think...Yoda's skill is such that he can best Mace Windu and Dooku, described as 'extraordinarily' skillful. To the point where he could easily take three masters, Depa Billaba one of them. And he can do it without the magical orbalisks shielding him from harm, because without those, Bane was nowhere NEAR skilled enough to take on even Raskta and Farfalla.

Power? Yoda's directly called the strongest Jedi to that point. He's on par with or more powerful with someone more powerful than Bane. Yes. He's more powerful than anyone Bane's ever met

Do you have ANY response to my earlier points or are you going to respond with "But...But...ORBALISKS! You UNDERESTIMATE HIM!"
Because that's getting tiresome. Start arguing or start conceding.

Because I'll say it again: Like Bane, Yoda needs one good hit on a small target. And Yoda is good enough to get it. He doesn't need to get past the orbalisks since he can see his target and he's maneuverable, fast and agile enough to get it, to say nothing of skill or strength.

You have no proof that w/ out orbalisks, Bane couldn't beat Farfalla or Raskta. But that doesn't matter, because he does have orbalisks.
Oh, and here's my argument:
Bane took on three jedi at once, and defeated them. He also has been noted to move faster than the eye can see. He is the Sith'ari and created the rule of two. He defeated Kas'im with less than two years of training, and that was when he moved faster than a force-user's eye could see! The orbalisks raise Bane's power an unimaginable amount, and create an unbreakable defense.
I'm not underestimating Yoda either. I already know how powerful he is and agree with all of his feats that you put down. But saying that he is a faster and more powerful fighter than Bane I do not agree with. I have put down all facts, and you haven't agreed with any of them. I think that you are so blinded by your own opinion that you refuse to acknowledge anything I have put down!

Originally posted by Lethal Rogue
You have no proof that w/ out orbalisks, Bane couldn't beat Farfalla or Raskta. But that doesn't matter, because he does have orbalisks.
Yeah, I do have proof, given Raskta dealt what would've been a mortal wound in the opening SECONDS of the fight and they're dealing numerous blows to his body throughout. Bane just had to focus on his head, how would he handle the entire body?


No. He didn't. He needed Zannah to interfere for him.


When? In fact, at his best, at the fight of his life? He is SEEN moving by Johun Othone and Valenthyne Farfalla.

Bearing on combat...where?

Hahaha! Nope. Sorry, cite something or be quiet and one quick burst of speed that startled everyone with Sirak isn't enough to overrule Johun Othone seeing him move when Bane was fighting to his fullest. And 'defeated Kas'im?' You mean when he was totally outmatched in their saber fight and had to use trickery to win? You mean when Kas'im crushed him with Jar'Kai? THAT fight?

And guess what? He's STILL less powerful than Palpatine or Yoda and because your skull is too thick to GET IT: His defense is limited to his head, which Yoda is capable of attacking


Yes you are.

Well, too bad, start arguing them instead of going on and on how Bane is so kewl and awesome, because you've refuted or challenged? Nothing. Especially given most of your feats are totally warped and aggrandized.


What are your facts? "LMAO BANE IS SO AWESOME HE HAS ORBALISKS!"
Unlike you, I'm responding point by point. You're not. What are the 'facts' you've put down, now?


Which is why I've answered everything you've put down?
go on, answer my points. If you're not too blinded. Because you're being both annoying and plainly idiotic. Go on, point out where Bane is a better fighter-I've refuted your points here. Or faster-refuted. Or more agile-refuted, or totally defended-refuted.

Are your points destroyed? Yes? Ok, then. I'll wait for your next post. Because you've argued just about? Nothing. Your entire thing is how Bane is awesome based on using feats that have NO BEARING ON COMBAT OR ON THIS FIGHT. Saying how Bane won a fight when he required his apprentice to STAB SOMEONE IN THE BACK DURING IT doesn't help your case.

Yoda annihilated an army on his own, he moved faster than Depa Billaba and two other Jedi Masters could perceive, a far cry from Bane who was seen moving by Valenthyne Farfalla when Bane was charging him with intent to kill and Yoda was only giving a mild demonstration at that point! He's the equal with the Force of someone more powerful than Bane, he's got far more experience, he defeated, on Vjun, while distracted, Count Dooku while Dooku was boosted in power.

He's strong enough to lift a gigantic gun in a gigantic crate on his back with no strain for a damn long time so Bane's physical strength? Not a factor. his agility and speed are unlike anything Bane has encountered before and Yoda is smart enough to process he'll need to go for the head and guess what? He's fast, good and quick enough to get to it, so stop acting like Bane has a guaranteed win here because Bane needs to *GASP* HIT YODA! And how is he gonna do that, now?

omg, you are not answering my statements. all you are saying to them is making up stuff that I never said! Yes, I have put down facts. I have never said, "Oh, Bane has orbalisks, that makes him pwn Yoda!" I have said that because of orbalisks, I don't see how Yoda is going to kill him. If you find a way and I agree with it, I will concede, but until then, I will not be convinced. saying that he can cut his head won't work, because that is such a small target (smaller than Yoda!!!) and he can spend his whole time just blocking that.

Anyway, I don't have time to argue with someone so stubborn and rude as you tonight. Other than that Ivalice guy, you are probably the biggest jerk on KMC i've met, so I would advise for you to lighten up, we are just debating battles, not trying to put eachother down. Please, just stay away from the insults and making up false things I never said. Now i'm tired and going to bed.

Originally posted by Lethal Rogue
omg, you are not answering my statements. all you are saying to them is making up stuff that I never said!
So I'm NOT responding to what you say line by line?

You've constantly posted one liners how Yoda 'can't overcome the orbalisks.' Any reason I have to believe otherwise?


Are you even reading my posts? I've pointed out that way no less than three times! You keep ignoring it!


Yeah, except Yoda is used to using absolute precision on single, small targets, and fast and skilled enough to leap up and take Bane's head off before he can recover from a missed swing, or find a gap in Bane's guard by leaping up and stabbing through Bane's skull. Stop ignoring Yoda's skill and speed and assuming Bane can infallibly block everything. What exactly will Bane do if Yoda leaps behind him, leaps up and slashes, when he moves too fast for Bane to track?


Sure, whatever. KMC has given me a really low tolerance for ignorance, so I'll 'lighten up' if you can stop this passive aggressive nonsense and start actually responding to what i say.

I'll wait for the response tomorrow.

Originally posted by Lethal Rogue

Anyway, I don't have time to argue with someone so stubborn and rude as you tonight. Other than that Ivalice guy, you are probably the biggest jerk on KMC i've met, so I would advise for you to lighten up, we are just debating battles, not trying to put eachother down. Wow i barely ever "talk" to you and that gives you the right to label me the biggest jerk on KMC?


What ever you say mr keyboard warrior.

Originally posted by Lightsnake

Point out where he does so?

Gordon Bennet! Okay, for the 3rd time;

"They DON'T CARE about our soldiers and fleets anymore."

Here Kopecz says specifically that the AoL is not interested in fighting the 'regular' armies.

"All they want to do is wipe US out: the APPRENTICES, the ACOLYTES, the SITH MASTERS... and especially the DARK LORDS."

Read carefully. Kopecz clearly says US, and then explains that US specifically refers to the apprentices, acolytes, Sith Masters and Dark Lords.

Why is this so hard for you to grasp?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yeah, I do have proof, given Raskta dealt what would've been a mortal wound in the opening SECONDS of the fight and they're dealing numerous blows to his body throughout. Bane just had to focus on his head, how would he handle the entire body?

They are dealing numerous blows to his body because Bane knows he doesn't NEED to block said blows so he doesn't try. Are you telling me that if your body was covered by impenetrable armour, you would still try to block/parry blows that you knew wouldn't do any harm if they connected? You don't think that would be a waste of energy?

If Bane didn't have the orbalisks then he would have at least tried to block the attacks. As it is, he doesn't try, so we can't say for certain that he couldn't have blocked them if he had to.


Originally posted by Lightsnake
he moved faster than Depa Billaba and two other Jedi Masters could perceive

I find it interesting that I asked twice when this happened and the only poster who replied admitted that they weren't sure if they were right. So I'll say again, when did this actually occur?

So you concede the point? No arguments? Good.



Yes. Not only did she get in front of Farfalla after Bane had unleashed a storm of lightning his way but when there 'her arms and blades became a blur as they carved figure eights in the air to catch and absorb the bolts of dark energy', meaning that that her arms would have to be moving at least as fast as lightning to be able to catch Banes lightning which has been described as having 'a dozen forks' as of POD.

As to the first point, the only way that it would be invalid would be of Raskta was already in front of Farfalla or pretty close, which isn't the case as she had just been blown far away by Banes Force wave. Not to mention that Banes FL attack comes directly after she regains her feet 'at the speed of thought', so its conclusive that she would have had to move quite far very fast to get in the way of Bane's attack.



And given that that is twenty years after the feat that we're talking about. And that that still isn't a match for Raskta's feat. Even Kopecz match's this feat. Not that it isn't an uber feat though.



I agree with Chilled Monkey, you need to provide this example.




Being able to block with 90% of your body. I'd be surprised.



The weakness of his Form won't give him a 100% fail ratio. Remember I did say Yoda would win 3, probably 4 times out of 10 (or at least I'm saying it now). The forms will be a contributing factor in this.



Irrelevant. This is nothing that won't be immediately obvious after the first 1 or 2 blows.



ROFL.

Now who's twisting canon. Yoda in no way was able to 'utterly leave Dooku in the dust'. Yoda won the fight but it was by no way a mega-stomp or a speedblitz. And distracted? If I recall correctly Yoda was absolutely set on killing Dooku at last. If Yoda is soooooo much greater than Dooku then why couldn't he take down the ba$tard on Geonosis?



It's already been proved that Bane would have been able to replicate this feat if not for Battle Meditation.



OK. Just name what must be done and I'll try my best. As long as it doesn't involve conceding the argument or somesuch.



Bane is unbelievably skillful, memorising thousands if not millions of attacks and sequences in a short time as well as, by Kas'im's admission 'moving far beyond sequences and forms' as well as out duel two of the greatest swordsmen in the galaxy, one of them while fighting two others at once. Yoda's good but I wouldn't be able to call his skill anything special, nor has it been heralded as such.




When was this by the way? Could you elaborate please, because otherwise I don't know if this is a speed feat, force powa etc.



Drat. When was it then?



You speculated that it seemed to turn to dust. After stating that he just charred it. For my position it seems like an equal feat except in scale.



This is before Bane becomes encased in the orbalisks, which 'greatly increase one's own command of the Force'. The first time Bane taps into the orbalisks power he describes 'Feeling an incredible surge of power beyond any he had known before'. This was just with two orbalisks, Bane is later covered in them. Not to mention that it's clear Bane's ultimate strength in the Force is obviously grown by the end of ROT. Bane's FL has obviously grown more potent, as shown when it tears through Grandmaster Farfalla's shield like it isn't even there.

Plus ten years of training and study obviously yields results, notwithstanding Bane's leaning rate, which I'm not going into.



Whatever.

EDIT: btw, when you see Yoda kicking Banes ass in the force, how does he do it. Because he wasn't able to beat Dooku, who is Banes inferior and was happy to play sabers with him. If he's so damn uber in the force, why not effortlessly snap his defences in half then do the same to Dooku? I'm genuinely interested in how you think Yoda'll do it. All I can see is the whole rediection of FL.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

ROFL.

Now who's twisting canon. Yoda in no way was able to 'utterly leave Dooku in the dust'. Yoda won the fight but it was by no way a mega-stomp or a speedblitz. And distracted? If I recall correctly Yoda was absolutely set on killing Dooku at last. If Yoda is soooooo much greater than Dooku then why couldn't he take down the ba$tard on Geonosis?


Precisely. Two quotes:

"Slowly,slowly Dooku gave way."

"Sweat ran in streams through Dooku's beard as he countered Yoda's every move."

Does Yoda have the upper hand? Yes, but Dooku is holding his own. He's not being 'left in the dust' by any stretch.

Plus, Yoda was only 'distracted' at the start of the duel, when he had to save Whirry from falling to her death. As soon as she was out of harm's way, he was fully focused on the fight.