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High end for both.

Surtur = Dormammu > Odin > Mephisto

Originally posted by shokosugi
Surtur = Dormammu > Odin > Mephisto no

Mephisto wins..no examples...no nothing...he just wins because i said sodevil2

surtur

As long as it's in a neutral realm Surtur wins

Originally posted by Mrblonde
As long as it's in a neutral realm Surtur wins

I agree

thread says high end for both which would negate any neutral realm issues. both are splinter realm rulers, both appear to be below odin (though not too far below--even with twilight surtur was only=odin) and both have at least one exceptional feat (mephisto stalemated galactus in hell, surtur destroyed an entire galaxy to build the forge he used to create twilight). mephisto has a larger realm though (or so it seems to me) so my inclination would be to say mephisto would take it--barely--but it's likely closer to a draw scenario.

this is assuming "high end" does NOT mean surtur has thesword. with the sword he wins.

Surtur was only equal to Odin once he lost Twilight, even Odin mentions this.

Surtur is above Odin you nincapoots

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Surtur was only equal to Odin once he lost Twilight, even Odin mentions this.

show me. he used the sword to prevent odin accessing the full odin-power--which is why he was above him. once odin WAS able to summon his full power he was a match for surtur.

and no . . . surtur is NOT greater than odin . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
show me. he used the sword to prevent odin accessing the full odin-power--which is why he was above him. once odin WAS able to summon his full power he was a match for surtur.

and no . . . surtur is NOT greater than odin . . .

Surtur was far superior when he was suppressing Odin's access to the odinforce. When Surtur dropped his sword and his link to the eternal flame was severed Odin mentions that he can no longer suppress his power and that they are "evenly matched"

surtur

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Surtur was far superior when he was suppressing Odin's access to the odinforce. When Surtur dropped his sword and his link to the eternal flame was severed Odin mentions that he can no longer suppress his power and that they are "evenly matched"



they fought 1on1 for most of an issue and NEITHER was able to get an upperhand. even surtur couldn't believe odin was matching him--AND the blade was drawing power from the flame. their battle was a draw--odin was blocked from growing to surtur's size, but then odin in turn blocked surtur from actually drawing power from the flame! his inability to defeat odin was the reason surtur had to summon the power of the casket of ancient winters to hold odin while he tried to light the blade. that was a GREAT showing for odin in that 1on1 battle.

surtur even admits that before the blade odin was more powerful than he was . . .

the blade makes them about equal. odin>surtur without sword (obviously or surtur would rule the nine worlds, not odin . . .)

regardless, in this fight i still give it to mephisto unless surtur has the blade.

Surtur is hot.

He wins.

surtur

Surtur

Surtur

Originally posted by leonidas


they fought 1on1 for most of an issue and NEITHER was able to get an upperhand. even surtur couldn't believe odin was matching him--AND the blade was drawing power from the flame. their battle was a draw--odin was blocked from growing to surtur's size, but then odin in turn blocked surtur from actually drawing power from the flame! his inability to defeat odin was the reason surtur had to summon the power of the casket of ancient winters to hold odin while he tried to light the blade. that was a GREAT showing for odin in that 1on1 battle.

surtur even admits that before the blade odin was more powerful than he was . . .

the blade makes them about equal. odin>surtur without sword (obviously or surtur would rule the nine worlds, not odin . . .)

regardless, in this fight i still give it to mephisto unless surtur has the blade.

Yeah, I reread the issue before and even Surtur exclaims that Odin's power is "beyond belief" However, Odin is standing in the middle of asgard with his scepter and channelling the power of his fallen brothers. He is also using his full power when he temporarily encases Surtur in an aura of energy and stops his ability to regenerate.

There are both incidents where they are displayed as superior to one another, but in the end Odin chose to take his own life in order to stop him. I doubt that someone as wise as Odin would give his own life to stop Surtur if it was within his own power to do so, without dying

And as we saw later on in Thor v2, Odin gave his own life to temporarily beat Surtur. And Surtur had just taken on Thor + Designate.

Having the down as equals is reasonable in my book.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Having the down as equals is reasonable in my book.

s'all i was sayin'.

(that of course is WITH the sword . . .)

Originally posted by leonidas
s'all i was sayin'.

(that of course is WITH the sword . . .)

I think we'll have to agree to disagree there.

When Odin sacrificed his life in their latest bout, Surtur had taken hits from Thor amplified a thousandfold, and fought Tarene to boot. That fight alone permanently took her down from Skyfather level to Thor's equal/slight inferior.

Also, Odin used his sword too D:

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I think we'll have to agree to disagree there.

When Odin sacrificed his life in their latest bout, Surtur had taken hits from Thor amplified a thousandfold, and fought Tarene to boot. That fight alone permanently took her down from Skyfather level to Thor's equal/slight inferior.

Also, Odin used his sword too D:

which arc are you talking about? not sure i've read it.

Originally posted by leonidas
which arc are you talking about? not sure i've read it.

Thor v2 39/40

I'll get the scans up, if I can't find them in my photobucket.

cool.

Originally posted by leonidas
cool.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor_v2_040_22.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor_v2_040_23.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor_v2_040_24.jpg

His might combined with that of the Designate.

hmm, cool scene, but i'm not sure what it's supposed to show or prove.

odin = (approx) surtur while surtur had twilight in asgard.

odin+designate>surtur with sword

i'd said that without the sword odin>surtur. destroying himself (AGAIN!) seems a bit like a predictable plot device. he also said that for the first time he wanted to completely destroy surtur.

meh. i still give mephisto a slight edge in this fight without the sword coming into play, but it's very very close.

Originally posted by leonidas
hmm, cool scene, but i'm not sure what it's supposed to show or prove.

odin = (approx) surtur while surtur had twilight in asgard.

odin+designate>surtur with sword

i'd said that without the sword odin>surtur. destroying himself (AGAIN!) seems a bit like a predictable plot device. he also said that for the first time he wanted to completely destroy surtur.

meh. i still give mephisto a slight edge in this fight without the sword coming into play, but it's very very close.

Only, Surtur came back where as Odin remained dead.

Designate was stated to be equal to Odin in power and when Odin has to use all her power AND take his own life in order to stop Surtur, then he's not superior. You can also see that Odin had his sword there as well.

Odin w/Sword+Designate's power

vs

Surtur w/sword of twilight

Odin dies, Surtur temporarily gets defeated.

How does this mean that Odin is superior to him??

Surtur wins.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Only, Surtur came back where as Odin remained dead.

Designate was stated to be equal to Odin in power and when Odin has to use all her power AND take his own life in order to stop Surtur, then he's not superior. You can also see that Odin had his sword there as well.

Odin w/Sword+Designate's power

vs

Surtur w/sword of twilight

Odin dies, Surtur temporarily gets defeated.

How does this mean that Odin is superior to him??

I run with my buddy Mephisto.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Only, Surtur came back where as Odin remained dead.

Designate was stated to be equal to Odin in power and when Odin has to use all her power AND take his own life in order to stop Surtur, then he's not superior. You can also see that Odin had his sword there as well.

Odin w/Sword+Designate's power

vs

Surtur w/sword of twilight

Odin dies, Surtur temporarily gets defeated.

How does this mean that Odin is superior to him??

i'd need to read the actual arc. not sure why this time round odin needed the designate + his own power to kill surtur when in the past his own power was sufficient (he even admits he LET surtur survive in the past, instead of killing him . . .) . AT BEST, you have one arc showing odin ON HIS OWN=surtur+sword, and one showing (and i've not read the arc to find out if there were any extenuating circumstances involved) showing that it took odin+designate to KILL surtur--not simply to MATCH or IMPRISON him--but to kill him. there's a lot i don't know though as relates to that arc (and i'm sure a few others don't know either . . .). was odin's power alone shown to be inferior in that arc? it would seem that either odin was downgraded/jobbed or surtur was depicted as more powerful than he was in the past. can't say which since i've not read it, but again, at worst it's a draw in terms of whether their power is a match. one time it was, another it wasn't--seemingly, though again, odin is attempting an entirely different outcome (surtur's actual death) in the later arc.

and odin having his own sword doesn't really mean anything at all.

ps--and odin may have remained dead, but his POWER lived on.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
I run with my buddy Mephisto.

Originally posted by leonidas
i'd need to read the actual arc. not sure why this time round odin needed the designate + his own power to kill surtur when in the past his own power was sufficient (he even admits he LET surtur survive in the past, instead of killing him . . .) . AT BEST, you have one arc showing odin ON HIS OWN=surtur+sword, and one showing (and i've not read the arc to find out if there were any extenuating circumstances involved) showing that it took odin+designate to KILL surtur--not simply to MATCH or IMPRISON him--but to kill him. there's a lot i don't know though as relates to that arc (and i'm sure a few others don't know either . . .). was odin's power alone shown to be inferior in that arc? it would seem that either odin was downgraded/jobbed or surtur was depicted as more powerful than he was in the past. can't say which since i've not read it, but again, at worst it's a draw in terms of whether their power is a match. one time it was, another it wasn't--seemingly, though again, odin is attempting an entirely different outcome (surtur's actual death) in the later arc.

and odin having his own sword doesn't really mean anything at all.

ps--and odin may have remained dead, but his POWER lived on.

Denial is never cool.

Odin combined with the powers of his fallen brothers is hardly Odin on his own. I also don't understand why you keep on ignoring the fact that Odin wears his own battle-armour, scepter or sword.

the odin power IS the power of all his brothers--it's ALWAYS been. the odin power was BORN when they died and gave odin his power. thought that was common knowledge . . .

and SOMETIMES odin uses armor and weapons. sometimes not. prove to me odin has EVER shown himself to be more powerful with a weapon. a spear. sword. scepter. whatever. they are merely channels for his OWN power. he didn't use a weapon when he battled seth on every plane of reality and the battle was rupturing the fabric of the multiverse. he went h2h when he toppled surtur in the simonson arc. he puts his power IN weapons--nothing augments his own power.

hell-odin has proven powerful enough to absorb surtur INTO himself. at worst, one odin has matched surtur with twilight in one battle, and seemingly needed to combine his power with someone else later in order to try and 'kill' surtur. not sure what exactly it is i'm "denying".

so, as uncool as denial is, lying is even LESS cool . . .

funny how you omitted the fact that when odin combined his "power" with the designate, he was practically POWERLESS! he'd placed almost ALL of his power into the healing elixir used to try and heal thor! only since the elixir didn't have time to run its course tarene had to use her OWN power to heal him. then she was struck by surtur so SHE was very weak as well when odin combined with her. true they had been striking surtur as well, but both sides gave as well as they got.

so, you had a weakened tarene granting power to a VERY weakened odin who wasn't even in asgard and somehow you want to use that as proof AGAINST odin's power??

ridiculous.

context is EVERYTHING. that's what i get for not reading things myself i suppose. anyway, in light of the fact that odin was pretty much POWERLESS for that latter battle, AND on earth, i've no idea why that battle was even brought up in the first place.

http://g.imagehost.org/t/0555/X-Men_Manifest_Destiny_nightcrawler_28.jpg http://g.imagehost.org/t/0969/X-Men_Manifest_Destiny_nightcrawler_29.jpg http://g.imagehost.org/t/0871/X-Men_Manifest_Destiny_nightcrawler_30.jpg

Mephisto only because i have'nt seen much of Surtur.

Originally posted by leonidas
so, as uncool as denial is, lying is even LESS cool . . .

funny how you omitted the fact that when odin combined his "power" with the designate, he was practically POWERLESS! he'd placed almost ALL of his power into the healing elixir used to try and heal thor! only since the elixir didn't have time to run its course tarene had to use her OWN power to heal him. then she was struck by surtur so SHE was very weak as well when odin combined with her. true they had been striking surtur as well, but both sides gave as well as they got.

so, you had a weakened tarene granting power to a VERY weakened odin who wasn't even in asgard and somehow you want to use that as proof AGAINST odin's power??

ridiculous.

context is EVERYTHING. that's what i get for not reading things myself i suppose. anyway, in light of the fact that odin was pretty much POWERLESS for that latter battle, AND on earth, i've no idea why that battle was even brought up in the first place.

Surtur is back

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/8706554_Journey_Into_Mystery_626_007.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/8706556_Journey_Into_Mystery_626_008.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/8706557_Journey_Into_Mystery_626_009.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/8706561_Journey_Into_Mystery_626_010.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/8706565_Journey_Into_Mystery_626_011.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/8706568_Journey_Into_Mystery_626_012.jpg http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/8706570_Journey_Into_Mystery_626_013.jpg