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In schools across countries like France, Germany and Belgium etc. What version of English are students taught? British English or American "we can't spell properly" English?

I assume nations will have national curriculum and thus the form of spelling used will be taught uniformly across the country but I guess different educational authorities may use different spellings...what's your experience of this if any?

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
In schools across countries like France, Germany and Belgium etc. What version of English are students taught? British English or American "we can't spell properly" English?


Well they're closer to you aren't they?

Just like Mexican students learn American English.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
In schools across countries like France, Germany and Belgium etc. What version of English are students taught? British English or American "we can't spell properly" English?

I assume nations will have national curriculum and thus the form of spelling used will be taught uniformly across the country but I guess different educational authorities may use different spellings...what's your experience of this if any?




If you're referring to things such "organization" versus "organisation" or "fetus" versus "foetus", I posit that the American version is actually better as it is closer to being phonetically correct. I am a proponent of overhauling the entire English language to be reorganized to spell things phonetically.


If you're referring to dumb Americans who simply can't spell things properly because of our shitty education or because you think Yanks are dumb, I have a response to that. I'll wait until you've cleared up what you mean before I go further with either.

I never quite understood the logic behind organization being spelled with a "s". It's with a "zuh", not an "seh". If you were to spell it the way it sounds it'd be with a "z"... Same with "color".

That's Europeans for you though, I guess.

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
In schools across countries like France, Germany and Belgium etc. What version of English are students taught? British English or American "we can't spell properly" English?

I assume nations will have national curriculum and thus the form of spelling used will be taught uniformly across the country but I guess different educational authorities may use different spellings...what's your experience of this if any?

If you're referring to things such "organization" versus "organisation" or "fetus" versus "foetus", I posit that the American version is actually better as it is closer to being phonetically correct. I am a proponent of overhauling the entire English language to be reorganized to spell things phonetically.


If you're referring to dumb Americans who simply can't spell things properly because of our shitty education or because you think Yanks are dumb, I have a response to that. I'll wait until you've cleared up what you mean before I go further with either.

I never quite understood the logic behind organization being spelled with a "s". It's with a "zuh", not an "seh". If you were to spell it the way it sounds it'd be with a "z"... Same with "color".

That's Europeans for you though, I guess.

British English is taught in Belgium.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
I never quite understood the logic behind organization being spelled with a "s". It's with a "zuh", not an "seh". If you were to spell it the way it sounds it'd be with a "z"...

That's magnificiently untrue; the phoneme is exactly the same as it is in many cases with 's'. If you think 's' always sounds like 'seh', then you've not been listening to what you have been saying...

For some reason I often see Belgians with near-perfect English (certainly better than most English people) use 'his' in place of an apostrophe-s, which is unusual (e.g. "This is David his car" instead of "This is David's car".

Trying to define a universal English standard is an absolute nightmare- no-one can even agree how commas work. But there is a good chance that Indian English will be the greatest influence on it in the next century.

We learned a mix of both. In earlier years our books focussed more on Britain and British English, but later on it moved to the US, so we had both in a year. They'd often give an "AE" or "BE" behind words, similar to how many dictionaries do. And the focus on culture was also on both. I think most students were more interested in the US, really, it does have more street cred...but I think it was good to sort of learn both of it. It also depends on the influences the teachers had, many of the olders were strongly British influenced...in pronunciation, spelling and cultural focus, while the younger ones might have lived in the US or at least got much of their English from there...so it is a sort of mix between the two.

Far as Im concerned Britain still rules the world...they still get our tax money...master plan how the U.S. came about...but anyways I say British should be the way to go...could be as stated above since I'm older many of my teachers were British influenced...so blame it on shitty education..haha??(jus kiddin all but one of my teachers were kewl) We were even taught how to properly drink tea at the school I was in...what's up with that?..lol.. I use to be a finalist in every spelling bee we had...and we used ancient dictionaries....(thats all b4 the booze days..haha) ahh who cares this discussion isnt for me....guess I will bow out saying I agree with Bardock's last post...and just for those who think I have no intelligence...I was placed in a nice private school for free since I was top of my class in everything I did in public schools....that was my downfall should have just accepted going up two grades...some of those private school dudes know how to party! The ones who were not total snobs anyways...I beat them up..haha to all of them....plus the chics put out there(sorry ladies to bust on ya) anyways back to my drink B4 U all rip me to shreads...lol...peace out

You are very, very odd.

blame it on the booze?

Yeah...I do...I do.

Originally posted by dadudemon
If you're referring to things such "organization" versus "organisation" or "fetus" versus "foetus", I posit that the American version is actually better as it is closer to being phonetically correct. I am a proponent of overhauling the entire English language to be reorganized to spell things phonetically.


If you're referring to dumb Americans who simply can't spell things properly because of our shitty education or because you think Yanks are dumb, I have a response to that. I'll wait until you've cleared up what you mean before I go further with either.

Oh yeah...? So what will you do about a made/maid,
where/wear or and oh/owe etc situation...?
And could you have a 'would' in the morning...?

You'd be stuffed, methinks.

And if you are rigid about your ethic, then please spell 'patronising' "Paytrunizing" and "Tomatoe" "T'Maytoh" etc

Good luck have a debate with the English communicating world with that stuff.

Yeah, English sucks.

Of course it does...
Some of it was Germanic in origin.

Speaking of language and translation, Bardock...

What would this mean, word for word if it actually anything...?
(Its a line from "Die Hard" and the caps "B" was meant to be your "s" sound thingy. btw)

"was has'ich dir gesault?
Ich will, da Beskeiner sieght."

The context was it was a part of Hans' reaction to finding Karl's brother dead in the elevator with all that "ho-ho-ho now I have a machine gun" business, if it helps.

Nice one mate.
I appreciate that. Ive wondered for 20 years.

That fits perfectly sense wise in the surrounding situation and dialogue.

I had heard that the German spoken in DH1 was mostly right except Alan Rickman's lines. And this would be solid proof.

Yeah, I think the German was pretty good really. Often it's German words but in a ridiculous arranged way...which can be quite funny.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Well they're closer to you aren't they?

Just like Mexican students learn American English.

Agree with Mota here...but I will point out that not just Mexican but all spanish speaking students from Central and South America as well as Cubans.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Well they're closer to you aren't they?

Just like Mexican students learn American English. We are closer to them, but that really shouldn't be the only deciding factor.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, I think the German was pretty good really. Often it's German words but in a ridiculous arranged way...which can be quite funny.

I mean what you know.

So that DH dialogue must sound like Yoda-speak to your ears...

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Oh yeah...? So what will you do about a made/maid,
where/wear or and oh/owe etc situation...?
And could you have a 'would' in the morning...?

You'd be stuffed, methinks.

And if you are rigid about your ethic, then please spell 'patronising' "Paytrunizing" and "Tomatoe" "T'Maytoh" etc

Good luck have a debate with the English communicating world with that stuff.


Not a point that I didn't think of already. I also thought of allomorphs posing problems and just simple word association via etymology. (Such as origin of a word to understand it's meaning or encountering a new word but knowing what it means because of the "residue" from the word amalgamation.)


Alas, I was far from original in my homophonic, etymological, and allomorphic thoughts. I would go as far as to say I am far from even close to being as in depth with my "idea" as these sources are.

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=cgkSAAAAIAAJ&dq=phonetic+spelling+in+the+english+language&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=7ePoXl3O57&sig=R1kzf9o2XAnyFcyBr4065KffdHE&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result


http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/vangogh/555/Spell/spel-links.html


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allomorph

Simplified spelling is superfically attractive but, first, has proven SO difficult to get right (the Simplified Spelling Society is onto at least its third iteration and it's still not right)- and if it is that difficult then it's nowhere near worth the enormous effort needed to make the shift.

But secondly, it's also cultural vandalism. Language tells a story and I'd hate to mess with that.

Indeed.

Clarkson would be horrified at the notion.

I gotta say wrathfuldwarf has a kickbut sig! (I like superdude he told me once i am your father luke...oh wait wrong thread..lol)

That was me. Ditto for a lot of Dutch people I've had contact with.

"Old weterans stick to their vays," as I believe was a Eastern European joke from immigrants in the 20th century.

It does seem an odd one to mix-up though, from our perspective, because the mouth/tongue movements used are so very different.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
"Old weterans stick to their vays," as I believe was a Eastern European joke from immigrants in the 20th century.

It does seem an odd one to mix-up though, from our perspective, because the mouth/tongue movements used are so very different. How dare you, I take offense to that. My grandfather fought in the war for your enslavement and that's how you repay him.


But yeah, the thing is, since we don't have the tongue movement, we use the closest thing. The "w" we have in German is like a mix between your "v" and "w", like halfway there.

Wrong war to be a veteran of, I am afraid...

Hard to make that out. Kind of thing I'd be intersted in looking more into sometime.

We just call them Belgians; we're pretty boring about it.

(resists urge to make appropriate joke)

The UK is pretty chock full of accents so that's always a hard one to call.

I know Icelanders often speak with very natural accents, I think a big part of it is Television nowadays. France and Germany having a lot of homegrown Television as well as dubbing foreign stuff, do not expose their children to English much until they start learning it in school, which is why the unique parts of their language are more prominent when learning a different one, I believe.

As a matter of interest, whats the most annoying English accent from your all point of view, English in a natural speaking worldwide sense.

Some US accents sound terrible imo, Sarah Palin for example has an accent which really made me cringe, dunno if all people from Alaska talk like that.

No offence at all to anyone from these areas, but strong Geordie and Glaswegian accents are very hostile to foreign language learners, in my experience.

That's certainly the comment I get from such learners, anyway.

I don't like many Southern US accents...for example John Edwards' (candidate for the Democratic Nomination in this years election) annoys me. There are also a few English once I dislike...though it is often the way (as in choosing words) people (especially youngers) here talk which annoys me more than the accent they use.

I find typical Scottish and Irish accents (that you might here on TV) extremely entertaining on the other end of the spectrum. Though it's hard to understand for me.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Of course it does...
Some of it was Germanic in origin.

Speaking of language and translation, Bardock...

What would this mean, word for word if it actually anything...?
(Its a line from "Die Hard" and the caps "B" was meant to be your "s" sound thingy. btw)

"was has'ich dir gesault?
Ich will, da Beskeiner sieght."

The context was it was a part of Hans' reaction to finding Karl's brother dead in the elevator with all that "ho-ho-ho now I have a machine gun" business, if it helps. Ah... Die Hard... How I love thee so.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
No offence at all to anyone from these areas, but strong Geordie and Glaswegian accents are very hostile to foreign language learners, in my experience.

That's certainly the comment I get from such learners, anyway.
Geordie?! Geordie is one of the softest accents on the British Isles.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Err... very surprised to hear you say that. Famously hard to understand, often mocked (in Alan partridge, for example). I have lived near Newcastle nearly all of my life, it's may be hard to understand if you're not used to it, but it's not harsh. Compared to the Manc, Scousse or even a lot fo the London accents it's as soft as a baby's bottom.

Well, regardless, the point remains that it is famous for being hard to understand and in my experience foreign language learners loathe it.

Though I'll add Scouse to the list, thanks.

Fair crack, having lived in Northumberland we don't really see a negative view of the accent but if others do that's fine... I don't have it anyway. Thick Scottish accents are horrific on the whole, the broad Aberdeenshire accent I've been around for nearly 2 years now and I still can't understand a word of it.

Plenty of Scots accents have a lot of 'currency' though, globally. Sean Connery is the most famous example, Ewan McGregor a more recent one (though Trainspotting showed he could do a full-on one if he wanted). It's often viewed as an Edinburgh vs. Glasgow thing, though I am sure it is more complex.

It's true... The Scottish are a walking tourist attraction.

Georgie accented english is right up there with Klingon.

I can maybe see how some may find it hard to understand... But it still sounds soft and welcoming on the whole to me.

I think the initial question was about accents you like or dislike. So Spooony seems to like said accent, even if it is hard to understand.

Yes, but he joined the convo at the point where we were describing ones that are hard for foreigners to understand, and that was the context of the discussion.

Hmm, yeah, well, maybe he did mean to say that the accent is easy, not sure, reading over it again.

I'd just like to bring it back to which ones do you like or dislike :P

Cause "hard" seems relative. I am sure if German's were taught Geordie accents we'd find them easy to understand, while other English accents hard, but since, I guess, most countries teach a sort of Northern American or a Queen's English accent, the ones that differ from that become hard to understand.

You in England now Bardock? Whereabouts? I'm curious.

I'm in Surrey...Walton-on Thames to be exact.

Though not for much longer, Sarah and I will move to Germany for a while...though, if the Euro continues to do that well against the pound I might just buy England

Surrey, eww....

Yeah, laugh it up euro boy, when the empire returns Germany is 1st on the list.

Experience...? Why...? How old were you in the 1940s...?

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
In schools across countries like France, Germany and Belgium etc. What version of English are students taught? British English or American "we can't spell properly" English?

I assume nations will have national curriculum and thus the form of spelling used will be taught uniformly across the country but I guess different educational authorities may use different spellings...what's your experience of this if any?

British English? You mean blah blah blah spot of dick and so I tell the swamp donkey to sock it before I give her a trunky in the tradesman's entrance and have her lick me yarbles!

We have world domination classes starting in pre-school!!!

Originally posted by Bardock42
That would be not the smartest move...you'd like to take countries you can beat first

I'm German, I'm speaking from experience.
Fair point... Take the Yanks 1st, yeah, they won Independence off us, but we weren't trying. Plus the US Army have gone down hill since then.

And with the yanks on our side, we need only like the French and maybe Russians, then you're going down Germany!

Originally posted by KidRock
British English? You mean blah blah blah spot of dick and so I tell the swamp donkey to sock it before I give her a trunky in the tradesman's entrance and have her lick me yarbles!
Quite accurate, I see you're an English connoisseur. hmm

Originally posted by Bardock42
We have world domination classes starting in pre-school!!!



True.

As well as "ruthless efficiency" classes.

If we ever do WW2 again, the Americans needn't send all those guys.

We'll just ask em to send in John McClane.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth


True.

As well as "ruthless efficiency" classes.

If we ever do WW2 again, the Americans needn't send all those guys.

We'll just ask em to send in John McClane. And Chuck Norris, just for good measure... Although McClane could obviously do it single handedly... And would do it in time for Christmas.

In germany, children are afraid of the John McClane under their bed

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Yes that was pretty good.
Its spotted dick though. The pudding.

Not a "spot of dick" which is something that the wife might like.

And you squeezed in a Clockwork Orange reference too. I think he may have just taken it from Austin Powers 3. Bit with Austin and his father talking cockney.

Missing the Beer then are you

Germany has the best Beer in the world, so they can rule as much of it as they like if they spread this wonderful water of life about.

Everyone should learn Latin via IPA and just be done with it.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I don't like many Southern US accents...for example John Edwards' (candidate for the Democratic Nomination in this years election) annoys me.

The only American accent that annoys me is the Hawaiian. Have you ever been there? It honestly doesn't even sound like English.

I was stationed there for over a year and I still to this day remember one of the very first interactions I had with a local. A waiter told me "Our grinds plenty cherry da-kine, brah!". I later learned that in Hawaiian English he said "Our food is very good, friend."

---

I don't think you had to point out who John Edwards is, we know.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
The only American accent that annoys me is the Hawaiian. Have you ever been there? It honestly doesn't even sound like English.

I was stationed there for over a year and I still to this day remember one of the very first interactions I had with a local. A waiter told me "Our grinds plenty cherry da-kine, brah!". I later learned that in Hawaiian English he said "Our food is very good, friend."


Is that how Dog the Bounty Hunter talks like?

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
---

I don't think you had to point out who John Edwards is, we know.

You of course do, someone that has no interest in US politics though...not really. He's not really a European Superstar, if you know what I mean.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Is that how Dog the Bounty Hunter talks like?


No, and I knew someone would bring him up. Dog's a Coloradan who tries too hard to fake a Hawaiian accent for the sake of his fan following.

Have you seen 50 First Dates with Adam Sandler? Rob Schneider does a really good job of nailing it.

Originally posted by Bardock42
You of course do, someone that has no interest in US politics though...not really. He's not really a European Superstar, if you know what I mean.

"We" meant people on this forum. Most Europeans here are in-the-know when it comes to American politics and aren't farmers in rural Moldova.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
No, and I knew someone would bring him up. Dog's a Coloradan who tries too hard to fake a Hawaiian accent for the sake of his fan following.

I like how Cartman talks when he tries too hard to fake Dog's accent when he tries too hard to fake a Hawaiian accent for the sake of being a ****ing weirdo.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Have you seen 50 First Dates with Adam Sandler? Rob Schneider does a really good job of nailing it.


I have seen that, can not remember though.


Originally posted by Quiero Mota
"We" meant people on this forum. Most Europeans here are in-the-know when it comes to American politics and aren't farmers in rural Moldova.

Fair enough, I could have left it out, I suppose.

I was taught British English, initally. That later somehow turned into American English, which eventually came back to British English since I ended up being educated here.

I am sure some Canadian English and Australian English was taught to me as well at some point without my knowledge.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
Are you drunk or just normally that big of a dumbass?
Same thing could be asked of the US army... Funny that... hmm

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
Wow. My faith in British people has just been shot to hell.
Fair enough..,. srug
Originally posted by Final Blaxican
That honestly makes zero sense.
I just enjoy getting people riled up with nonsensical statements...

Originally posted by dadudemon
No you don't.





You HATE it.

I'm right and you know it!

HA!
Damn thee! You rumbled me.... Wanker! shakefist

Originally posted by dadudemon
No thanks necessary.

We Yanks know how to be obnoxious a**holes.

I mean, come on, look what we've done to the English language? BOOYA!
Yeah, it is true you bastardise the english language with your spelling and pronunciation... And then you do it with your silly accents, it's like rubbing salt in the wound.

There are ****ing shit loads of British accents... Just like there are ****ing shit load of American accents... I've just yet to hear an attractive American one.

Again... Busted!


You're on form.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
The only American accent that annoys me is the Hawaiian. Have you ever been there? It honestly doesn't even sound like English.

Ever heard an extremely thick Scottish accent? It pretty much is a language of its own.

Most Londons are pretty nasty tbh.

Both American and British English. I prefer British English.