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who wins.

In a strict saber duel Kasim would win but in a force only and all out battle I'd gave to give to starkiller.

Kas'im is the better duellist, but I think Galen is good enough to hold his own if it comes to blade-to-blade. Plus he's a lot more powerful with the Force. So I'd say he wins.

Kira, Shin, or Authurn Zala would beat his ass.. ok um
1st

why do ppl think that Kas'im is shitty in the Force?
he blocked Bane's Force push that brought down a temple.
how is that unpowerful or not powerful?

Galen takes the Force contest for obvious reasons, and for those same reasons I hope that it is equally obvious that Kas'im takes sabers. The fight that matters most, the 'all out' portion of the contest, is also going to Kas'im. He has shown the ability to protect himself against a superior Force user (Bane) and is among the best swordsmen featured in the series.

Kas'im would have a hard time dealing with Marek's Force powers. From what I have seen of the game though, the majority of Starkiller's attacks take the form of ridiculously powerful TK and Force lightning. Force lightning can be defended against, and as a Sith Lord Kas'im would have a familiar understanding of the technique. This leaves Marek's utterly ridiculous (I said that already didn't I?) TK. Kas'im has shown defense against TK. He protected himself from an attack by Bane that was described as being a "massive shock wave shook the very foundations of the great Rakatan Temple. The concussive blast had enough power to shatter every bone in Kas'im's body and pulverize his flesh into a mass of pulpy liquid." PoD 186. Kas'im threw up a shield 'at the last possible instant.' His Force defense was enough to protect against Bane (albeit without Orbalisks) and I feel that it would be enough to protect against Marek, as he could tank a full out TK assault with a spur of the moment defense.

Kas'im has contended with a high level combatant who eclipsed him in mastery/power in the Force, yet won the duel. (That he died is irrelevant, as it was from atmospheric factors and not by Bane's direct attack.) His mastery of the blade and apparent ability to cope with strong Force attacks suggest that he would be able to keep up with Marek. I'd give the all out portion to Kas'im 6/10 times.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Kas'im would have a hard time dealing with Marek's Force powers. From what I have seen of the game though, the majority of Starkiller's attacks take the form of ridiculously powerful TK and Force lightning. Force lightning can be defended against, and as a Sith Lord Kas'im would have a familiar understanding of the technique. This leaves Marek's utterly ridiculous (I said that already didn't I?) TK. Kas'im has shown defense against TK. He protected himself from an attack by Bane that was described as being a "massive shock wave shook the very foundations of the great Rakatan Temple. The concussive blast had enough power to shatter every bone in Kas'im's body and pulverize his flesh into a mass of pulpy liquid." PoD 186. Kas'im threw up a shield 'at the last possible instant.' His Force defense was enough to protect against Bane (albeit without Orbalisks) and I feel that it would be enough to protect against Marek, as he could tank a full out TK assault with a spur of the moment defense.

Kas'im has contended with a high level combatant who eclipsed him in mastery/power in the Force, yet won the duel. (That he died is irrelevant, as it was from atmospheric factors and not by Bane's direct attack.) His mastery of the blade and apparent ability to cope with strong Force attacks suggest that he would be able to keep up with Marek.Kas'im only defended against a fraction of Bane's attack; an Umbaran shadow guard replicates the feat in RoT, against an older and more powerful Bane:



The energy that wasn't blocked by the strongest of the guards went and bowled over the other four; with Kas'im, the energy that wasn't blocked blew apart the foundations of the temple. If Kas'im had managed to actually contain all of the energy that was directed at him and the structure, it would be far more impressive.

It is basically the same objection, so I see no need to respond to each individually:
Originally posted by Faunus
Kas'im only defended against a fraction of Bane's attack; an Umbaran shadow guard replicates the feat in RoT, against an older and more powerful Bane:
The energy that wasn't blocked by the strongest of the guards went and bowled over the other four; with Kas'im, the energy that wasn't blocked blew apart the foundations of the temple. If Kas'im had managed to actually contain all of the energy that was directed at him and the structure, it would be far more impressive.

As far as I know, Force protection simply does not work like that. I don't know of a single case of Force defense in which the victim's defense protects the surrounding area; there is always collateral damage. That Kas'im could block a blast that would 'shatter every bone in Kas'im's body and pulverize his flesh into a mass of pulpy liquid' speaks highly of his combat defense. It seems like this would be enough to protect against Marek.

Re: Umbaran Shadow Assasins:
Bane let off a Force Wave with no warning or preparation. There is nothing to suggest that it was as powerful as an attack that charged up during the pretentious speech that Kas'im gave at the end of their duel.



In general:
Force attacks w/prep time > Force attacks w/o prep time.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
As far as I know, Force protection simply does not work like that. I don't know of a single case of Force defense in which the victim's defense protects the surrounding area; there is always collateral damage.Generally speaking, the aggressor doesn't usually attack the environment as Bane did. If we limit this to telekinesis, and then further limit it to attacks were actually defended against, I can come up with the following examples off the top of my head:

1.) Obi-Wan vs. Anakin (RotS): The Force-push contest ended with both of them being hurled at least a dozen meters away from the focal point of the energy. They are surrounded by the corpses of slaughtered Separatist leaders and the remains of dismantled droids. No noted collateral damage.

2.) Raynar Thul vs. Luke (DN: TSW): Raynar Thul attacks Luke with the combined Force-potential of every Force-sensitive member of an entire colony. Luke blocks it. They are surrounded by a ten meter-high pile of Killik corpses and destroyed droids, as well as standing "Bugcruncher" droids. No noted collateral damage.

3.) Asajj Ventress vs. Anakin (CWC): Ventress attempts to Force-push Skywalker away while he is charging up the stairs at her; he simply runs through the attack, with the only effect being that his shirt is torn into tatters. No noted collateral damage.

I could list at least a dozen instances where the attack isn't defended against and there is still no collateral damage, which would indicate that the attack is directed solely at the target.

Doubtful. Marek's lightning overloaded an AT-AT, and Darth Vader couldn't fully defend himself against the young man's telekinesis.

This is true.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Re: Umbaran Shadow Assasins:
Bane let off a Force Wave with no warning or preparation. There is nothing to suggest that it was as powerful as an attack that charged up during the pretentious speech that Kas'im gave at the end of their duel.

In general:
Force attacks w/prep time > Force attacks w/o prep time.

A valid point, but keep in mind that the Force Wave Bane used against the Shadow Assasins was during RoT. At that point he was much more experienced and powerful than during his fight with Kas'im and he wasn't exhausted from a gruelling battle.

We have to take into consideration of few aspects of the fight - was Kas'im a great melee fighter? As an assasin, Starkiller would be trained in the fighting arts - probably something similar to teras kasi. Kas'im is superb with the lightsaber and Starkiller was tutored in Shien. From the game (I still haven't read the book), Starkiller's Force push and FL were incredibly strong. He ripped through Mariss Brood's & Shak Ti's Force shields. As it is stated, Starkiller used the Force unlike any other Force user. Vader taught him and literally "unleashed" him.

On to the battle - Kas'im would quickly recognize that he was the better lightsaber artist, but Starkiller's fighting style would unnerve him. This is the guy (Starkiller) who kept coming after Vader and won so it is safe to assume that he would employ the same tactics.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent

On to the battle - Kas'im would quickly recognize that he was the better lightsaber artist, but Starkiller's fighting style would unnerve him. This is the guy (Starkiller) who kept coming after Vader and won so it is safe to assume that he would employ the same tactics.

About that, I once read a post by someone who claimed that Galen's fighting style was especially effective against double-bladed sabres. Does anyone have any idea if this is accurate?

Not sure, but he did outfight and overpower Marris Brood with the Force. But before the brawl, he killed a Bull Rancor. And she did use two lightsabers.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
About that, I once read a post by someone who claimed that Galen's fighting style was especially effective against double-bladed sabres. Does anyone have any idea if this is accurate?

Who did even he even faced that used a double bladed saber? The only thing I could think of is PROXY mimicking Darth Maul.

I'm going completely off topic here but, what is with all the newbie posters here and putting senior member under their names when they don't even have over 200 posts? Dammit people use some common sense, if you haven't been at KMC for a full year and don't have a 1000(s) of posts then your not a senior member. That's my mindless rant for the day.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
Who did even he even faced that used a double bladed saber? The only thing I could think of is PROXY mimicking Darth Maul.


PROXY mimicking Darth Maul is exactly what I was reffering to.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
Who did even he even faced that used a double bladed saber? The only thing I could think of is PROXY mimicking Darth Maul.

I'm going completely off topic here but, what is with all the newbie posters here and putting senior member under their names when they don't even have over 200 posts? Dammit people use some common sense, if you haven't been at KMC for a full year or have a 1000(s) of posts then your not a senior member. That's my mindless rant for the day.

If thats the case I'll be a senoit member in about six months. By the way, wasn't Galen Marek able to hold off against Paply's lightning? His lightning is far more powerful than Bane's powers and, even if Palpatine isn't using any effort, is still pretty impressive considering that Starkiller hadn't much training compared to Kas'im and Bane, and from what I've seen from my TFU game, Galen has very powerful Force capacity. But he is greatly lacking in lightsaber skills, as he had to resort to a particularly aggressive use of the force to clip his opponents up the ass.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
PROXY mimicking Darth Maul is exactly what I was reffering to.

I haven't heard what you speak of. We need someone who read the book to answer your question............ Summons Gideon

Elite, I don't know how many posts I have on here, but it was KMC who gave me that status. Don't know why either. How do you contact them about it? I don't know if you're ranting at me though.

Anyway, Maul used Juyo as his primary lightsaber technique. I'm not sure how well Shien would be able to defend against a double blade. Plus Starkiller's unorthodox way of handling his lightsaber might be a disadvantage.

Starkiller had at least fifteen years of "formal" training. I don't think Bane had anymore than three.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Elite, I don't know how many posts I have on here, but it was KMC who gave me that status. Don't know why either. How do you contact them about it? I don't know if you're ranting at me though.

I was joking I don't really care. But all that stuff can be edited in the "user cp" menu.

God dam, I really wish this book was online already so I can find the answers to questions about SK myself.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
We have to take into consideration of few aspects of the fight - was Kas'im a great melee fighter?
Yes.
Originally posted by Darth Truculent

As an assasin, Starkiller would be trained in the fighting arts - probably something similar to teras kasi.
No. Proof?
Originally posted by Darth Truculent

Kas'im is superb with the lightsaber and Starkiller was tutored in Shien.
Kas'im knows every combination in every form and has a counter to each sequence. Starkiller is ruined if it comes down to sabers.
Originally posted by Darth Truculent

From the game (I still haven't read the book), Starkiller's Force push and FL were incredibly strong.
His powers are what will determine the contest. I don't think that Marek's TK is >>>>>>(times a lot) than Bane's, even if it is more powerful.
Originally posted by Darth Truculent

He ripped through Mariss Brood's & Shak Ti's Force shields. As it is stated, Starkiller used the Force unlike any other Force user. Vader taught him and literally "unleashed" him.

On to the battle - Kas'im would quickly recognize that he was the better lightsaber artist, but Starkiller's fighting style would unnerve him. This is the guy (Starkiller) who kept coming after Vader and won so it is safe to assume that he would employ the same tactics.
Wait, what?

Can you explain why Starkiller's fighting style would 'unnerve' Kas'im? Keep in mind that Kas'im had memorized every combo and response in every form. (Starkiller didn't know Vaapad, so they are even.) On top of that, how is persistence off putting? Kas'im wouldn't expect Marek to quit, so his refusal to give up is largely irrelevant.

No kidding about being online - they're holding back on us!

But yes Faunus does make a point that Starkiller did have "formal" training. He was tutored under Vader. Vader could have killed him on the spot when he killed Starkiller's father, but recognized his potential. He just didn't know how much power he had.

But back to Kas'im, I do think Starkiller/Galen Marek could outfight and overpower Kas'im due to his training.

Originally posted by Gaevus Mesias
If thats the case I'll be a senoit member in about six months.
Don't care.
Originally posted by Gaevus Mesias

By the way, wasn't Galen Marek able to hold off against Paply's lightning?
Under a unique and one time state of 'oneness' with the Force he managed to survive it for a few moments.
Originally posted by Gaevus Mesias

His lightning is far more powerful than Bane's powers
It took Starkiller's life, an instaconversion to the Light side, and a threat to the lives of his new cause's ringleaders to tank the lightning; If he tries it against Bane the best he can hope for is a repeat: a big boom that doesn't hurt Bane in the least.
Originally posted by Gaevus Mesias

and, even if Palpatine isn't using any effort,
Nothing that I know of suggests this.
Originally posted by Gaevus Mesias

is still pretty impressive considering that Starkiller hadn't much training compared to Kas'im and Bane,
15 years is a lot of training.
Originally posted by Gaevus Mesias

and from what I've seen from my TFU game, Galen has very powerful Force capacity. But he is greatly lacking in lightsaber skills, as he had to resort to a particularly aggressive use of the force to clip his opponents up the ass.
Yes. The question is if he can get around the proven powerful defenses of Kas'im.

You ignored by rebuttal, tool.

Red your a master of rebutals too!

But assasins are trained in some form of the martial arts. Mara was an assasin and was quite skilled in the use of martial arts.

Kas'im was a Sith Lord, but didn't have the strength of Vader or Bane. You do have a point that Starkiller's/Galen Marek's TK can be countered. But his FL (Starkiller's/Galen Marek's) was incredibly powerful. Starkiller killed Shak Ti . . . but would Kas'im have the power to kill Shak Ti?

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Red, you're a master of rebutals too!Corrected.

He knows how to fight with a lightsaber; Cestus Deception reveals that a Jedi applies the same principles of his chosen lightsaber form to his unarmed style of combat.

In short, there's no indication that Starkiller practiced a specific kind of unarmed combat.

Again; relevancy is cool.

Faunus each martial art has it's strengths and weaknesses. I'm guessing it was a type of hand-to-hand combat like the Israeli martial arts.

Back to Kas'im and Starkiller. Starkiller would utilize his skills as an assasin to defeat him. Starkiller is far from a master swordsman, but his strenth in the Force would defeat Kas'im. Starkiller brought down an SD, his FL is just too powerful. Frying an AT-AT is a major accomplishment. Can Kas'im counter that much power?

Originally posted by Gaevus Mesias
But he is greatly lacking in lightsaber skills, as he had to resort to a particularly aggressive use of the force to clip his opponents up the ass.

I'm afraid I must disagree with you there. Galen's lightsabre skills were very good.

* He out-duels Rahm Kota.

* Holds his own against Shaak Ti.

* Out-duels Maris Brood, immediately after blowing up her pet rancor's head from inside its mouth.

* Defeats Vader in a duel.

True he finished them off with the Force, but that was after he was beating them in sword-fighting (except Shaak Ti).

But he did manage to stop an imperial destroyer from crashing into a planet. While people like Luke Skywalker could probably do that in their sleep, for Starkiller it could still be equal to Kas'im blocking Bane's lightning, so I think Kas'im could manage to defeat Starkiller with incredible difficulty, considering he's had some experience with the FL and FP.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Faunus each martial art has it's strengths and weaknesses. I'm guessing it was a type of hand-to-hand combat like the Israeli martial arts.

Back to Kas'im and Starkiller. Starkiller would utilize his skills as an assasin to defeat him. Starkiller is far from a master swordsman, but his strenth in the Force would defeat Kas'im. Starkiller brought down an SD, his FL is just too powerful. Frying an AT-AT is a major accomplishment. Can Kas'im counter that much power?

whats FL? and why do people always think that starkiller is shitty with lightsaber?

Originally posted by Faunus
Generally speaking, the aggressor doesn't usually attack the environment as Bane did. If we limit this to telekinesis, and then further limit it to attacks were actually defended against, I can come up with the following examples off the top of my head:

1.) Obi-Wan vs. Anakin (RotS): The Force-push contest ended with both of them being hurled at least a dozen meters away from the focal point of the energy. They are surrounded by the corpses of slaughtered Separatist leaders and the remains of dismantled droids. No noted collateral damage.

2.) Raynar Thul vs. Luke (DN: TSW): Raynar Thul attacks Luke with the combined Force-potential of every Force-sensitive member of an entire colony. Luke blocks it. They are surrounded by a ten meter-high pile of Killik corpses and destroyed droids, as well as standing "Bugcruncher" droids. No noted collateral damage.

3.) Asajj Ventress vs. Anakin (CWC): Ventress attempts to Force-push Skywalker away while he is charging up the stairs at her; he simply runs through the attack, with the only effect being that his shirt is torn into tatters. No noted collateral damage.

I could list at least a dozen instances where the attack isn't defended against and there is still no collateral damage, which would indicate that the attack is directed solely at the target.

Doubtful. Marek's lightning overloaded an AT-AT, and Darth Vader couldn't fully defend himself against the young man's telekinesis.

This is true.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxfp3vVDwL4&feature=PlayList&p=4148F8E82A720D32&index=0&playnext=1

6m 30s...massive collatoral damage to the enviroment during a force attack

Can you feel it

The perfect day

Scratch the leaved
The paper tears
The world I'm feeling start giving away
A perfect day
A perfect day

Suddenly your rule the universe
Everything was shapeles is clear now
I visualize with a drop of sound

I am The Man Without Fear

Hello lady
She takes my hand
Delicate features in this rain
I lose everything
can I dream

The voices scream
The voices shout

Suddenly youre shot irreparably

Everything was evil now clear

I hear the darkness without sound
I am The Man Without Fear

what is this? your english hw?

lol

Originally posted by Gaevus Mesias
But he did manage to stop an imperial destroyer from crashing into a planet. While people like Luke Skywalker could probably do that in their sleep, for Starkiller it could still be equal to Kas'im blocking Bane's lightning, so I think Kas'im could manage to defeat Starkiller with incredible difficulty, considering he's had some experience with the FL and FP.

Kas'im NEVER blocked lightning.

Originally posted by kotorfan
whats FL? and why do people always think that starkiller is shitty with lightsaber?

1. Force Lightning I assume.

2. I have no idea. He was actually very good with a lightsabre.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
2. I have no idea. He was actually very good with a lightsabre.

I haven't read the book yet so I can't say how good he was but I think some people want him to be "shitty" with a lightsaber to balance his "over the top" force power.

nobody ever listens to Rob Zombie anymore, ugh

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
I haven't read the book yet so I can't say how good he was but I think some people want him to be "shitty" with a lightsaber to balance his "over the top" force power.

I think you're right there.

Read the book if you get the chance. It's really good.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
I think you're right there.

Read the book if you get the chance. It's really good.

I intend to but I'm to cheap to buy it and I have no clue where the new library is in my town, come to think of it, it has been years since I went to any library.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
I intend to but I'm to cheap to buy it and I have no clue where the new library is in my town, come to think of it, it has been years since I went to any library.

You could wait until it comes out in paperback.

Originally posted by Faunus

1.) Obi-Wan vs. Anakin (RotS): The Force-push contest ended with both of them being hurled at least a dozen meters away from the focal point of the energy. They are surrounded by the corpses of slaughtered Separatist leaders and the remains of dismantled droids. No noted collateral damage.
This was only aimed at Kenobi.
Originally posted by Faunus

2.) Raynar Thul vs. Luke (DN: TSW): Raynar Thul attacks Luke with the combined Force-potential of every Force-sensitive member of an entire colony. Luke blocks it. They are surrounded by a ten meter-high pile of Killik corpses and destroyed droids, as well as standing "Bugcruncher" droids. No noted collateral damage.
This was only aimed at Luke.
Originally posted by Faunus

3.) Asajj Ventress vs. Anakin (CWC): Ventress attempts to Force-push Skywalker away while he is charging up the stairs at her; he simply runs through the attack, with the only effect being that his shirt is torn into tatters. No noted collateral damage.
This was only aimed at Anakin.
Originally posted by Faunus

I could list at least a dozen instances where the attack isn't defended against and there is still no collateral damage, which would indicate that the attack is directed solely at the target.
In this case (Bane/Kas'im) the attack is *not* aimed solely at the target. In the case of a widespread, impersonal Force attack (I'm talking about Force Wave) the environment is also affected.

At the moment I can't find any other than Bane's Waves against Kas'im and the Umbarans, but it makes sense (to me) that if an attack would affect an area larger than the target's body the only protection would be directly in front of the Victim. Jedi of the Ruusan era (and presumably the PT, too) used 'Force bubbles' as defense- Farfalla's attempt to defend Raskta is probably the best example. The very nature of the defense precludes the ability to protect their surroundings.

What if during the duel, Starkiller/Galen Marek hit him with Force Repulse? Is that power more devasting than a FW? Although Kas'im was the better lightsaber artist, Starkiller/Galen Marek would defeat him. Look at the Force users he defeated: Kota, Peragus, Shak Ti, Marris Brood and Vader. Vader is by far more powerful than Kas'im and Starkiller/Galen Marek tooled him with the Force and lightsaber.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent


Wrong. Vader is not by far more powerful, in fact he might not even be more powerful in the first place. Kas'im as completed master every possible move and sequence of every form except for Vapaad (since it wasn't invented yet).

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Wrong. Vader is not by far more powerful, in fact he might not even be more powerful in the first place. Kas'im as completed master every possible move and sequence of every form except for Vapaad (since it wasn't invented yet). Actually he is right. Vader is far more powerful than Kas'im.

Force-wise, Vader will defeat Kas'im. So would Galen. Sabers though, I'd give Kas'im the win against either of them.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Actually he is right. Vader is far more powerful than Kas'im.

How? What is your proof that Vader is FAR more powerful than Kas'im?

When was the last time kasim choked someone millions of lightyears away? When was the last time he destroyed a massive barrier with one force move? When was the last time he ragdolled a jedi knight like a pitbull attacking its victims?

When was the last time kasim stopped a jedi that tore the command module of a space station apart with relative ease? When was the last time he tore massive pillars and used it as weapons?

You an idiot if you think vader isn't stronger than kasim in the force, seriously.

gotta agree with wolvie here. vader has much more impressive feats then kas'im does lightsaber wise.

The only exhibitions of Kas'im's Force mastery include busting open a door:



and surviving a blast long enough to get hit by a temple.


Not enough to make an argument of equivalency with one of the most powerful Telikineticists of the Saga.

Vader is bomb with the Force. Nothing Kas'im has goes anywhere near bomb.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
gotta agree with wolvie here. vader has much more impressive feats then kas'im does lightsaber wise. \

meant to say force wise.

boooooo!

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Wrong. Vader is not by far more powerful, in fact he might not even be more powerful in the first place. Kas'im as completed master every possible move and sequence of every form except for Vapaad (since it wasn't invented yet).

And we saw the effect of that on Bane, didn't we? Dueling skills are shit against Vader's raw mastery of the force.

EDIT

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Force-wise, Vader will defeat Kas'im. So would Galen. Sabers though, I'd give Kas'im the win against either of them.

QFT. Kas'im himself said he wasn't very strong in the force compared to people like Kaan and Bane. Since Bane > Kaan, then Kas'im must be pretty far down the scale.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
How? What is your proof that Vader is FAR more powerful than Kas'im? What Wolverine said.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
When was the last time kasim choked someone millions of lightyears away? When was the last time he destroyed a massive barrier with one force move? When was the last time he ragdolled a jedi knight like a pitbull attacking its victims?

When was the last time kasim stopped a jedi that tore the command module of a space station apart with relative ease? When was the last time he tore massive pillars and used it as weapons?

You an idiot if you think vader isn't stronger than kasim in the force, seriously.

These are all force feats.

I admit that Vader is stronger in the force. I am just saying that Kas'im's superior lightsaber skills would at least be enough to make this a close fight.

If you would actually read my post instead of calling me an idiot, you would realize that.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
These are all force feats.

I admit that Vader is stronger in the force. I am just saying that Kas'im's superior lightsaber skills would at least be enough to make this a close fight.

If you would actually read my post instead of calling me an idiot, you would realize that.

You said power though.

It wouldn't be close when Vader would rag doll his ass the same way he did Kota. Kasi'm would win a saber duel, but Vader can hold up long enough. He did contend with Maul in a saber duel, and even gained the upperhand until Maul used Jar kai (however you spell it) against him.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
These are all force feats.

I admit that Vader is stronger in the force. I am just saying that Kas'im's superior lightsaber skills would at least be enough to make this a close fight.

If you would actually read my post instead of calling me an idiot, you would realize that. Being a lightsaber master doesn't mean shit in especially when a force titan unleashes massive telekinatical energy to whoop your ass.

And you said "power", not saber skillz.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
Being a lightsaber master doesn't mean shit in especially when a force titan unleashes massive telekinatical energy to whoop your ass.

And you said "power", not saber skillz.

Palpatine was a force titan and Mace Windu was a lightsaber master. Apparently it DOES mean shit.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Palpatine was a force titan and Mace Windu was a lightsaber master. Apparently it DOES mean shit.

Sidious was the better swordsman, and was forcing Windu back. Windu only achieved victory through Vaapad, which matched Sidious' own speed.

BTW, Sidious decided to use the force only when he was defeated.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Palpatine was a force titan and Mace Windu was a lightsaber master. Apparently it DOES mean shit. Did he decide to use the force at the start of the battle?

No, it means shit only if your opponent happens to get close to you for saber combat.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
Did he decide to use the force at the start of the battle?

No, it means shit only if your opponent happens to get close to you for saber combat.

So why bother training with a lightsaber anyway? To deflect blaster bolts? Then why not just train on deflecting blaster bolts and not on dueling?

In the battles (as in personal battles, not large scale ones) in the movies, 95% of it is lightsaber dueling.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
You said power though.

It wouldn't be close when Vader would rag doll his ass the same way he did Kota. Kasi'm would win a saber duel, but Vader can hold up long enough. He did contend with Maul in a saber duel, and even gained the upperhand until Maul used Jar kai (however you spell it) against him.

OK, so by "power" I meant overall fighting capability. Sorry if you misunderstood.

Before you said that Vader is far more "powerful", but now you're saying that he can at least hold up...

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
So why bother training with a lightsaber anyway? To deflect blaster bolts? Then why not just train on deflecting blaster bolts and not on dueling?
Wtf? Your not making any sense.

Training with a lightsaber is for the sake of dueling with other enemies if it be jedi or sith. But then again how does being an excellent saber master going to help you when your opponent is far superior to you in the force and when he grabs your balls with the force and you can do nothing about it?

(Imagine if your out of dueling range and vader grips you, whats you ub3r saber capabilities going to do? I'll answer for you: nothing!!)

I don't know how many people have told you this.
Dont-be-an-i-d-i-o-t.


Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

In the battles (as in personal battles, not large scale ones) in the movies, 95% of it is lightsaber dueling.
So? Then i will argue with your own logic, then why bother training with the force anyway if 95% of the fights are pure saber duels?

Its all a matter of personal preference, in a hypothetical debate we argue that both combatants go in an all out fight meaning there is excessive use of the force which in this case vader will tool you precious kasim

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

OK, so by "power" I meant overall fighting capability. Sorry if you misunderstood.
Thats too bad, when you say "power", we say "force" not "over all fighting capability"

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

Before you said that Vader is far more "powerful", but now you're saying that he can at least hold up... Don't be stupid, first you admit that there was a misunderstanding and now your accusing SID 66 of contradicting himself?

Vader IS more powerful than kasim in the force and overall capabilities, kasim may be a better duelist, but vader is no slouch in saber combat and no push over either.

Main reason Bane had time to do the wave was because Kas'im is a fool and gave a speech. Marek would act like Bane and crush something or let loose lightning. Depends on if he cant protect that, plus Marek is an assassin, he can hide. Kas'im has his foolish sense of honor.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
He did contend with Maul in a saber duel, and even gained the upperhand until Maul used Jar kai (however you spell it) against him.

I thought the maul additions to the EU were non-canon, since the movie clearly showed him dying (no hope of life from a cut in half guy, unlike boba) and the Movies are higher canon than whatever book has him alive?

It is canon.... you do know about sith alchemy to bring back a body from the dead or create a doppleganger right?

Hooray for the sith, they get to revive the dead!!!!

Maul was brought back a couple times. A doppleganger that fought Vader(And lost)

A solid hologram that fought Luke(And lost)

And a non canon, half droid(lower body) who fought Obi-Wan, and lost.

SIDIOUS 66
Sidious was the better swordsman,

What?

There's absolutely nothing that suggests that. Both of them were masters of Juyo, which means that they were high end masters of multiple disciplines; both were also well established martial artists. But there is absolutely nothing that suggests that Palpatine circa Revenge of the Sith is a superior swordsman than Mace. Given that Mace kept up his technical skill through practice and real war situations, Mace is more likely the more skilled swordsman.



That has nothing to do with Sidious's prowess as a swordsman; his superior speed stems from a superior connection and mastery of the Force.

I'll make it simple.

The next gook that downplays vader... well i am going to grab you by the balls and then squeeze until my hands turn white.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Sidious was the better swordsman, and was forcing Windu back. Windu only achieved victory through Vaapad, which matched Sidious' own speed.

BTW, Sidious decided to use the force only when he was defeated.

Prove it. It's specifically stated that they were even, and that Mace's Vaapad and shatterpoint put him over the top.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
Did he decide to use the force at the start of the battle?

No, it means shit only if your opponent happens to get close to you for saber combat.

Stop making up circumstances to validate your point.

How am i making up circumstances when they always occur during a fight?

Originally posted by Gideon
What?

There's absolutely nothing that suggests that. Both of them were masters of Juyo, which means that they were high end masters of multiple disciplines; both were also well established martial artists. But there is absolutely nothing that suggests that Palpatine circa Revenge of the Sith is a superior swordsman than Mace. Given that Mace kept up his technical skill through practice and real war situations, Mace is more likely the more skilled swordsman. True, but Mace did not defeat Palpatine through better technical skill as McBeefington put it.

BTW, I thought it was stated that Mace was second to Yoda? Yoda and Sidious are near equals.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Prove it. It's specifically stated that they were even, and that Mace's Vaapad and shatterpoint put him over the top. They were even after Mace sunk into Vaapad. Before that Mace had a hard time keeping up

um... wait a minute,Mace's Vapaad is his lightsaber form. To act like being even with that is less than being even normally isn't correct. If he was even with the vapaad, then he was even.

beefy, u too are right. Shatterpoint is what put it over the top though. Then Vapaad screwed Sidious when he tried to fry mace.

Originally posted by truejedi
um... wait a minute,Mace's Vapaad is his lightsaber form. To act like being even with that is less than being even normally isn't correct. If he was even with the vapaad, then he was even. No Vapaad was more of a state of mind. It is a superconductive loop that allowed Windu to match Sidious' speed. It took Mace several seconds to sink into it.

Beefington was using Palpatine's defeat at Mace's hands as an example of how a better duelist can defeat a force titan. And that was a bad example. Mace did not defeat Palpatine through better technical skill. He defeated Palpatine through the loop that matched Palpatine's speed.

Actually no. Mace thought Palpatine's shatter point was his fear, which was wrong. Palpatine's shatterpoint was actually Anakin, so I don't see how shatterpoint is the thing that defeated Palpatine.

I could be wrong.

LOL, the superconducting loop was Mace using his lightsaber in conjunction with Vaapad to turn Sidious lightning back on him.

Originally posted by KingD19
LOL, the superconducting loop was Mace using his lightsaber in conjunction with Vaapad to turn Sidious lightning back on him. You need to do some research, child. It was also used to accept the fury and speed of the oponent they are facing, and match it.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
I'll make it simple.

The next gook that downplays vader... well i am going to grab you by the balls and then squeeze until my hands turn white.

I'm not downplaying him, infact I think that he's more powerful than some other people give him credit for. I just don't think that he's "far" more powerful than Kas'im.


Originally posted by Wolverine2179
Wtf? Your not making any sense.

Training with a lightsaber is for the sake of dueling with other enemies if it be jedi or sith. But then again how does being an excellent saber master going to help you when your opponent is far superior to you in the force and when he grabs your balls with the force and you can do nothing about it?

(Imagine if your out of dueling range and vader grips you, whats you ub3r saber capabilities going to do? I'll answer for you: nothing!!)




Kas'im states in PoD that a guy that superior in sabers can defeat a guy that's superior in the force. Also, if the force is so much more important in a fight, then why not just practice all force and only practicing deflecting blaster bolts for the lightsaber?

Originally posted by Wolverine2179


I don't know how many people have told you this.
Dont-be-an-i-d-i-o-t.




Even if you disagree with me, my logic is NOT as stupid as you think. They are perfectly legitimate arguments, whether or not they are correct.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179


So? Then i will argue with your own logic, then why bother training with the force anyway if 95% of the fights are pure saber duels?

Its all a matter of personal preference, in a hypothetical debate we argue that both combatants go in an all out fight meaning there is excessive use of the force which in this case vader will tool you precious kasim


Because knowledge of the force DOES help you in fights, plus it allows you to move objects (which can be useful in many combat and non-combat situations) "persuade" people, sense bad situations, enhance your strength/speed/stamina/etc, and much more.

There would be excessive use of the force, but there's also excessive use of the lightsaber.

Kas'im was shown to at the last instant put up a force shield and still block a force attack that shattered a temple.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179

Vader IS more powerful than kasim in the force and overall capabilities, kasim may be a better duelist, but vader is no slouch in saber combat and no push over either.

I'm not arguing for either Kas'im or Vader when it comes to who will WIN (although I might be leaning towards Kas'im) but Vader isn't FAR more powerful. It would be close.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
but Vader isn't FAR more powerful. It would be close. But why do you say that?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
But why do you say that?

Kas'im mastered EVERY possible sequence of EVERY move of EVERY form (except Vapaad, since it wasn't invented yet).

He was stated to be perhaps the greatest swordsman ever, and this was after the greats such as Exar Kun/Ragnos/Revan, meaning that he is skilled enough to rival them all in sabers.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Kas'im mastered EVERY possible sequence of EVERY move of EVERY form (except Vapaad, since it wasn't invented yet).

He was stated to be perhaps the greatest swordsman ever, and this was after the greats such as Exar Kun/Ragnos/Revan, meaning that he is skilled enough to rival them all in sabers. No no, I'm not referring to a saber fight. IMO, Kas'im would defeat Vader in pure sabers. I mean why do you think Vader isn't far more powerful than Kas'im in the Force?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
No no, I'm not referring to a saber fight. IMO, Kas'im would defeat Vader in pure sabers. I mean why do you think Vader isn't far more powerful than Kas'im in the Force?

I never said that he wasn't far more powerful IN THE FORCE. What I'm arguing was in an all out fight Kas'im's superior lightsaber skill would be enough to compensate enough so that is would at least be a close fight (not Vader winning by FAR). In fact, it's highly likely that Kas'im would win, since he drove back BANE.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
I never said that he wasn't far more powerful IN THE FORCE. What I'm arguing was in an all out fight Kas'im's superior lightsaber skill would be enough to compensate enough so that is would at least be a close fight (not Vader winning by FAR). In fact, it's highly likely that Kas'im would win, since he drove back BANE. Ah, you meant "far more skilled." Choice of words.

Knowing Vader's (and everyone else's, really) method of engaging in a saber duel before busting out the powerful Force attacks, then yeah there's a... fair chance that Kas'im would break through Vader's defenses in time.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Ah, you meant "far more skilled." Choice of words.

Knowing Vader's (and everyone else's, really) method of engaging in a saber duel before busting out the powerful Force attacks, then yeah there's a... fair chance that Kas'im would break through Vader's defenses in time.

Right, and even if he doesn't, it would at least be a close fight.

So did Anoon, and was defeated by Maul, who in turn had a hard time with Vader. So Kasi'm is not gonna effortlessly crush Vader in a duel. However, Vader will easily crush Kasi'm in a force contest.

Not really.

And your (laughably bad) ABC fails twice:
1. It is an ABC.
2. The Maul Anoon fought was not the same as the one Vader fought.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Not really.

And your (laughably bad) ABC fails twice:
1. It is an ABC.
2. The Maul Anoon fought was not the same as the one Vader fought.

Really? Explain the fight with Anoon.

Vader and Maul fought on even ground. It was more of a lightsaber duel, with Vader using the force twice, which were not aimed directly at Maul.

Anoon was the "battlemaster". Am I right.

You tell me how my arguement fails.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis

2. The Maul Anoon fought was not the same as the one Vader fought.

I don't get this part.

@Sidious66, are you sure that Anoon mastered EVERY sequence of EVERY form except Vapaad?

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
I don't get this part.

@Sidious66, are you sure that Anoon mastered EVERY sequence of EVERY form except Vapaad? From what I've heard. I could be wrong.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
I don't get this part.

The duel in Resurrection was between Vader and what Leland Chee describes as being either a clone, an illusion like what Luke fought on Dagobah and a couple other possibilities. We have no idea if that version of Maul was actually as strong as the real Maul since they aren't inherently the same.

Originally posted by Advent
The duel in Resurrection was between Vader and what Leland Chee describes as being either a clone, an illusion like what Luke fought on Dagobah and a couple other possibilities. We have no idea if that version of Maul was actually as strong as the real Maul since they aren't inherently the same.

If that Maul wasn't as strong, then that's even worse for Vader that he got beat by a WEAKER Maul.

Originally posted by Advent
The duel in Resurrection was between Vader and what Leland Chee describes as being either a clone, an illusion like what Luke fought on Dagobah and a couple other possibilities. We have no idea if that version of Maul was actually as strong as the real Maul since they aren't inherently the same.

Can I get the exact quote if you don't mind. In comic they describe Maul as being the same in every way.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
If that Maul wasn't as strong, then that's even worse for Vader that he got beat by a WEAKER Maul. But there's also nothing to say that the version of Maul that Vader fought wasn't stronger either.

there is the thing about clones, with the exception of Sidious, who inhabits the clone in DE, clones in the star wars universe should not be considered the same as their predecessors. Just because the mando clones were all the same, it is because they recieved all the same life experiences.

Look at Boba and Jango, clones, but definitly not exactly the same, and in this case, the Clone is widely considered the more powerful of the two.

What vader accomplished against a clone Maul cannot be equated to a fight with the Maul that is described in Shadow hunter and other sources.

You don't even know if it's a clone for sure. Chee didn't even verify that. It was simply one option of multiple options.

what source was this? I don't know anything about it. I assumed it was a comic book or something? I was told about it, but haven't seen it myself.

If it doesn't say in the source WHAT it is, and it looks just like maul, wouldn't we have to assume it is maul? And therefore assume that it isn't canon?

These are questions, because i lack details on the subject.

Originally posted by Advent
The duel in Resurrection was between Vader and what Leland Chee describes as being either a clone, an illusion like what Luke fought on Dagobah and a couple other possibilities. We have no idea if that version of Maul was actually as strong as the real Maul since they aren't inherently the same. Short and sweet... like Miss Advent, herself.

so its written from Vader's point of view, and he never knows what it was he killed then?

In this blog post, Leland Chee responds to a question in the comments section, that had asked "The Vader vs. Maul brawl is canon?", replying with,

"It's not quite the real Darth Maul. Hence the 'or something.' Who knows, it could have been a vision like Luke confronting Vader on Dagobah or just some sort of Sith illusion. Or a clone. Nothing's been determined as to what we are actually seeing."

It's obvious then that we can't accurately gauge how powerful this version is in relation to the real Darth Maul.

ic, thanks!

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
I'm not downplaying him, infact I think that he's more powerful than some other people give him credit for. I just don't think that he's "far" more powerful than Kas'im.
Yes you are, but trying to say that vader isn't more powerful than a guy who has done almost nothing in the force is absurd and shows your blatant idiocy.





Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

Kas'im states in PoD that a guy that superior in sabers can defeat a guy that's superior in the force.
He is right to a certain degree, but then again you blatant moron, explain to me how the h-e-l-l is his uber saber skills going to help him when vader unleashes a massive telekinetic attack before he can get up close?

STOP being so stupid, hell for shits sake change your name to "HeWhoKnowsnothing."
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

Also, if the force is so much more important in a fight, then why not just practice all force and only practicing deflecting blaster bolts for the lightsaber? Are you born stupid? If a jedi is going to practice sabers for blot deflection, he is obviously going to practice is for close up combat.

Your stupidity is unbelivable, its like asking me why soldiers train for hand to hand combat when the vast majority of the time they are using guns and all sorts of weapons to kill their enemies.

Its called balance moron, you can't be good in one aspect and be shit in another.

And i never said the force is "much much more important" in the fight, it just plays a large role(like how bane tooled your precious kasim in a force fight when he lost to him in sabers)

Vader > your precious kasim, accept it and move on with life and if you can't do that, go to the bathroom and use the razor to accept it.


Originally posted by Hewhoknowsnothing

Even if you disagree with me, my logic is NOT as stupid as you think. They are perfectly legitimate arguments, whether or not they are correct.

It IS stupid, its sad that your too stupid to realise it and your arguments are not legitimate, you offer no proof, you make unsubstantiated claims and you put claims that cause people to misunderstand.

Don't tell me that your arguments are "perfectly" legitimate, last i recall the better debaters of this forum outright insult your intelligence and abilities to debate.


Originally posted by Hewhoknowsnothing

Because knowledge of the force DOES help you in fights, plus it allows you to move objects (which can be useful in many combat and non-combat situations) "persuade" people, sense bad situations, enhance your strength/speed/stamina/etc, and much more. Thanks for shooting your own foot and backing me up.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsnothing

There would be excessive use of the force, but there's also excessive use of the lightsaber.
And is vader, despite his limitations in saber combat going to face kasim in a pure saber duel? No, and kasim isn't going to tool vader(you DO know vaders lightsaber style is completely alien to almost everybody he fought and you did see what happened to bane when he faced an unfamiliar style) with ease in a saber combat, vader is still going to have time to pull off a massive force attack that will tear kasim to shreds.


Originally posted by Hewhoknowsnothing

Kas'im was shown to at the last instant put up a force shield and still block a force attack that shattered a temple. You mean block a force attack that shattered the foundations of a 20 000 year old temple?

So what? He barely put that shield up in time or he would have been annihilated, whats to stop vader from ragdolling him with the force like he did to so many jedi?(One of whom is powerful enough to tear a space stations command module apart with ease).

You fail.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsnothing


I'm not arguing for either Kas'im or Vader when it comes to who will WIN (although I might be leaning towards Kas'im) but Vader isn't FAR more powerful. It would be close.

LOL and how exactly is kasim going to beat vader in an all out fight if vader uses excessive force attacks?

Seriously shut the **** up, get some proof and then come back and debate.

The forum needs less idiots like you.

Now, substantiate as to why kasim would beat vader in the force or shut the hell up.

Hewhoknowsall, when Kas'im said the thing about sabers, force, he actually said that not having the same force-ability as Bane put him at a disadvantage. He was able to make up for it with years of practice, but obviously, Bane caught up quickly.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
Yes you are, but trying to say that vader isn't more powerful than a guy who has done almost nothing in the force is absurd and shows your blatant idiocy.



Dude, WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM????!!!??!! Apparently your maturity level is about that of a 1st grader, because you are incapable of debating without bashing people. Do you no realize something called manners? If you think that someone is fat, you don't just go up to them and say that they're fat to their face, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY AREN'T ACTUALLY FAT!!!! Just take a chill, relax, and calm down.

And once again you fail to actually read, because I never said that Vader isn't more powerful. I said that Kas'im would PUT UP A GOOD FIGHT, not necessarily win.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179


He is right to a certain degree, but then again you blatant moron, explain to me how the h-e-l-l is his uber saber skills going to help him when vader unleashes a massive telekinetic attack before he can get up close?


1. Kas'im has shown to be able to block force attacks of considerable power.

2. Kas'im isn't a wimp in the force. Sure Vader is more powerful, but Kas'im himself is more than capable of using it too.

3. Explain to ME how Vader's uber force powers are going to help him when Kas'im manages to close the gap and start hitting him (other than providing a slight boost in strength/speed).

4. What do you mean by "he is right to a certain degree"? Kas'im has mastered EVERY sequence of every form (except for Vapaad). Has Vader mastered even a tenth of every force move?

Originally posted by Wolverine2179


STOP being so stupid, hell for shits sake change your name to "HeWhoKnowsnothing."
Are you born stupid? If a jedi is going to practice sabers for blot deflection, he is obviously going to practice is for close up combat.


...

are you serious?

HOW is it obvious that one who practices deflection would practice up close combat? They are two completely different things with two very different purposes: one is to defend against blaster bolts, the other is to fight against other saber wielding opponents. The latter is, according to you, useless if your enemy is stronger in the force (which contradicts a blademaster with decades of experience), so why not spend all that wasted effort on getting stronger in the force so that you can pwn your enemies before they even get close?

Originally posted by Wolverine2179

Your stupidity is unbelivable, its like asking me why soldiers train for hand to hand combat when the vast majority of the time they are using guns and all sorts of weapons to kill their enemies.


They train hand to hand, but that's only a small part of their combat training. Of the combat part of the jedi's training, lightsaber dueling takes up a very large portion of it.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179


And i never said the force is "much much more important" in the fight, it just plays a large role(like how bane tooled your precious kasim in a force fight when he lost to him in sabers)


If it isn't "much more important", then why is Vader far more powerful? Kas'im > Vader in sabers, and Vader > Kas'im in the force. Even if the force is more important, you just said that the force isn't FAR more important, so therefore Vader isn't FAR more powerful! It's pretty simple.

And no, Bane didn't "tool" Kas'im. Kas'im managed to block it, it's just that by chance they were in a temple, so the temple came crashing down on him. Had they been on open ground, Kas'im wouldn't have been injured or killed.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179


And is vader, despite his limitations in saber combat going to face kasim in a pure saber duel? No, and kasim isn't going to tool vader(you DO know vaders lightsaber style is completely alien to almost everybody he fought and you did see what happened to bane when he faced an unfamiliar style) with ease in a saber combat, vader is still going to have time to pull off a massive force attack that will tear kasim to shreds.


Vader is not aware of even a tenth of the lightsaber styles and sequences that Kas'im knows. Has he ever fought against a double sided lightsaber (other than that clone of Maul, who BEAT Vader and wouldn't won had he not been so arrogant)? No, so it will be very alien to Vader. Vader's form on the other hand is just a variation of Form 5.

And when did I say that Kas'im tools Vader in sabers? Stop making up stuff.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179


Now, substantiate as to why kasim would beat vader in the force or shut the hell up.

He doesn't. But he DOES beat Vader in sabers.

And your argument is basically "oh Vader uins cose heh jast blo Kas'im up wath Force!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Explain how Vader can beat Kas'im up with the force so badly.

And explain why Vader doesn't do this to every opponent that he faces that's inferior in the force.

And Kas'im vs Bane is an example of how one skilled in sabers beat one skilled in the force. Bane only ended up winning via luck.

Originally posted by truejedi
Hewhoknowsall, when Kas'im said the thing about sabers, force, he actually said that not having the same force-ability as Bane put him at a disadvantage. He was able to make up for it with years of practice, but obviously, Bane caught up quickly.

True, but not having the same saber skills as Kas'im but BANE at a disadvantage as well.

Well I don't know what you guys are talking about.. I'm just sad that Advent ignored me.

Subjekt? Really?!

I missed you, sir.

Finally, the forum homosexual returns.

Originally posted by Eminence
Subjekt? Really?!

I missed you, sir. I could say the same about you Eminence, there has been less intelligent comments since... you came back.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Well I don't know what you guys are talking about.. I'm just sad that Advent ignored me.

Do you think that Vader is FAR (keyword: FAR) more powerful than Kas'im?

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

Explain how Vader can beat Kas'im up with the force so badly.

Explain how Kas'im could touch Vader when he is suspended in a force grip.

Originally posted by The Ground
Explain how Kas'im could touch Vader when he is suspended in a force grip.

Wait what? Kas'im was able to defend himself against Bane's force wave. So he's NOT going to be able to defend himself against Vader's force grip? I'm confused here.

Originally posted by The Ground
Explain how Kas'im could touch Vader when he is suspended in a force grip.

See Dr McBeefington's post above, and why didn't Vader just do that to everyone that he faced? Because many of them (including Kas'im) could block it!

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Well I don't know what you guys are talking about.. I'm just sad that Advent ignored me.

REX deleted my reply because it wasn't PG-13.

Originally posted by Eminence
Subjekt? Really?!

I missed you, sir. The sentiment is mutual... but i don't remember who you are. But I missed you anyways.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Finally, the forum homosexual returns. I assume you were getting lonely?
Originally posted by Advent
REX deleted my reply because it wasn't PG-13. Did you send me a Rated R reply? Just kidding.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Do you think that Vader is FAR (keyword: FAR) more powerful than Kas'im?
Uh... maybe in technical power level, but not FAR above in knowledge and ability... if that makes sense to you.

1. Em is Faunus
2. OH SNAP
3. ALSO OH SNAP

1. word
2. oh, word?
3. haha....word

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Dude, WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM????!!!??!! Apparently your maturity level is about that of a 1st grader, because you are incapable of debating without bashing people.
I am incapable of debating with stupid/ignorant people hence i bash them.

When was the last time i bashed truejedi or Dr Mcbeefington this badly during a debate? Oh right last i recall, none.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

Do you no realize something called manners? If you think that someone is fat, you don't just go up to them and say that they're fat to their face, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY AREN'T ACTUALLY FAT!!!! Just take a chill, relax, and calm down. So are you admitting to be actually stupid but your upset that i am outright telling it to you in your face? Whats the matter? Can't handle the truth?
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

And once again you fail to actually read, because I never said that Vader isn't more powerful. I said that Kas'im would PUT UP A GOOD FIGHT, not necessarily win.
And yet you say kasim MIGHT win, now your contradiction yourself making you look even less credible.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

1. Kas'im has shown to be able to block force attacks of considerable power. Yeah, he could barely block the attack for your information and vaders command of the force as of TFU surpasses that of bane as of POD.

Dude, vader casually choked rahm kota and ragdolled him with relative ease, the same rahm kota that tore a space station's comman module apart and sent the entire facility to critical condition.

Vader is capable of overwhelming powerful(and above average force users obviously) individuals.

Kasim may throw up a shield but whats to say that vaders powerful attacks and sheer rage isn't going to smash through any defences kasim put up?(Bane did the same thing to qoordis).
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

2. Kas'im isn't a wimp in the force. Sure Vader is more powerful, but Kas'im himself is more than capable of using it too. Yeah and the only thing kasim has ever done with the force(at least to what i recall) is barely throw up a shield to block a force attack.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

3. Explain to ME how Vader's uber force powers are going to help him when Kas'im manages to close the gap and start hitting him (other than providing a slight boost in strength/speed).
And how is kasim going to close the gap if vader unleashes an attack that kasim cannot defend against?

Hell even if he does close the gap, he isn't going to be owning vader in sabers because he is fighting a style that has elements of the majority of light saber forms and that gives vader a slight advantage and would allow vader to hold his own until theres an opportunity to unleash massive TK attacks to overwhelm kasim.

You have seen what vader is capable off during a saber duel, he, durign a duel is capable of manipulating the environment to his advantage and then kill his enemies.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

4. What do you mean by "he is right to a certain degree"? Kas'im has mastered EVERY sequence of every form (except for Vapaad). Has Vader mastered even a tenth of every force move?
So what if vader mastered only a tenth of every force moves? Are you implying that he is weak? Because vaders command of the force says other wise and he greatly surpasses any nightsisters(that has more force moves than him) .

And according to some guide, it was stated that galen marek learned many dark side powers from vader.

Now lightning + TK isn't considered "many" you know?
Gideon listed the quotes and i will get them.




Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

...

are you serious?

HOW is it obvious that one who practices deflection would practice up close combat? They are two completely different things with two very different purposes: one is to defend against blaster bolts, the other is to fight against other saber wielding opponents. The latter is, according to you, useless if your enemy is stronger in the force (which contradicts a blademaster with decades of experience), so why not spend all that wasted effort on getting stronger in the force so that you can pwn your enemies before they even get close?
So what is your point here moron? Just what are you trying to tell me?

That kasim's saber mastery is going to overwhelms vaders command of the force?

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

They train hand to hand, but that's only a small part of their combat training. Of the combat part of the jedi's training, lightsaber dueling takes up a very large portion of it.

Just see the above, I'm just saying the force can overwhelm a saber master because according to numerous individuals, the force is a far more terrible weapon.



Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

If it isn't "much more important", then why is Vader far more powerful? Kas'im > Vader in sabers, and Vader > Kas'im in the force. Even if the force is more important, you just said that the force isn't FAR more important, so therefore Vader isn't FAR more powerful! It's pretty simple. More important = More powerful?

Oh god are you serious? Is this how far your intelligence has decreased ?

First off your assuming kasim is greater than vader in sabers because of a simple quote, hell vader has defeated roan shryne who was also stated to be a master of lightsaber combat and just how are you called a master if you don't master the lightsaber forms? Hmm?

Let me use your logic against you.

First off, i'll assume kasim is superior to vader in sabers, but as far as this goes, he doesn't surpass vader that much.
On the other hand, as far as command of the force goes, vader vastly surpasses kasim in the force, keyword: vastly.

So by your own logic, vader IS far more powerful than kasim.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

And no, Bane didn't "tool" Kas'im. Kas'im managed to block it, it's just that by chance they were in a temple, so the temple came crashing down on him. Had they been on open ground, Kas'im wouldn't have been injured or killed.
I'll ignore this one, ROT bane would have been a different story.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

Vader is not aware of even a tenth of the lightsaber styles and sequences that Kas'im knows. Has he ever fought against a double sided lightsaber (other than that clone of Maul, who BEAT Vader and wouldn't won had he not been so arrogant)? No, so it will be very alien to Vader. Vader's form on the other hand is just a variation of Form 5.
Your stupidity and ignorance is getting very disturbing.

Vader is not aware of a tenth of the lightsaber styles? The how come the rise of darth vader states that vaders lightsaber style has several different forms in it?

However, Vader was able to overcome this limitation fairly quickly, developing a refined version of Djem So that continued to include Ataru and Soresu elements, but also added Makashi and Juyoto the mix. With this new form, Vader regained some of his old agility, and his bladework was brutally effective, being crisp and unpredictable.

^ This may be from wookiepedia, but the actual source material is in RODV(its sad i no longer have the book) and i have read the novel myself and this has been CONFIRMED.

So really, combining elements of several forms into a singular lightsaber form takes considerable skills to do so.


Seriously, your an idiot and a perpetual liar.



Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

And when did I say that Kas'im tools Vader in sabers? Stop making up stuff.
Ok, provided you shut the hell up.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

He doesn't. But he DOES beat Vader in sabers.
Fair enough, but he does not vastly surpass vader in sabers but sadly vader surpass him vastly in the force.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

And your argument is basically "oh Vader uins cose heh jast blo Kas'im up wath Force!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
No it isn't, its just sad you don't know how to read and just desperate to win by lying and making up shit that vader is ignorant in the force and only has knowledge on one lightsaber form.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall


Explain how Vader can beat Kas'im up with the force so badly. Explain to me how rahm kota and kento marek got beaten so badly in the force, kento had ample time to throw up defences yet he still gets overwhelmed.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

And explain why Vader doesn't do this to every opponent that he faces that's inferior in the force. Explain to me why sidious doesn't use a force storm(ot other devastating dark side techniques) every single time he faces opponents that's inferior in the force.

Explain to me why kreia doesn't "insta kill" everybody she comes across.

Its called inconsistency or personal preference, there are individuals that simply choose to engage their enemies in a lightsaber duel of their own will or always use the force.

Continued.....

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

And Kas'im vs Bane is an example of how one skilled in sabers beat one skilled in the force. Bane only ended up winning via luck.



True, but not having the same saber skills as Kas'im but BANE at a disadvantage as well. Don't babble bullshit.

What do you mean bane didn't have the same saber skills as kasim? He constantly beat kasim and kasim had to keep changing lightsaber styles to keep up with bane.

Kasim ONLY beat bane because he switched to the jair kai form which bane DID NOT LEARN and hence didn't memorize the sequences of that lightsaber form.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
See Dr McBeefington's post above, and why didn't Vader just do that to everyone that he faced? Because many of them (including Kas'im) could block it! Lets see, who were these people that could block it? Can you name these "people" hewhoknowsnothing?

I forgot how he overpowered powerful individuals that tear space stations apart

I also forget that there was ample time between kasim and bane during their exchange of words for bane to throw a force attack and for kasim to see it coming and barely block it.


You know if kasim barely blocked an attack after such a pause between him and bane i wonder how is he going to have time to conjure up any sort of defence if vader unleashes his powers so sudden that it would catch kasim off guard.
FAIL

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r32/nadd_9/fail-owned-helmet-fail.jpg


Originally posted by Darth Subjekt


Uh... maybe in technical power level, but not FAR above in knowledge and ability... if that makes sense to you. Ability and knowledge in force i'd argue that he(vader) surpasses him. I have never seen kasim do anything with the force but bring up a shield.

Honestly, I didn't read through all that, so I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but wasn't Kas'im's force feat that everyone clings to more of a redirection of the force wave rather than a straight up, shoulders squared block?

If so, I would think that would somewhat diminish the feat a bit.

No, his block was a full straight up shoulders squared block.

The only guy that said it was a redirection of the force wave was... nebaris.

Oh god, forgive me! I should have known considering that it would have been a knock against wet dream, Bane. Like I said... it's been awhile.

No problem man.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
1. Kas'im has shown to be able to block force attacks of considerable power.

2. Kas'im isn't a wimp in the force. Sure Vader is more powerful, but Kas'im himself is more than capable of using it too.


True

And no, Bane didn't "tool" Kas'im. Kas'im managed to block it, it's just that by chance they were in a temple, so the temple came crashing down on him. Had they been on open ground, Kas'im wouldn't have been injured or killed.




If you arent being sarcastic, nothing can excuse that man. Kas'im would more than likely have been flung far away or off a cliff, and then he would still have hit something, oh, I dont know, somehting called the GROUND. That alone would break a few (bunch) of bones, leaving him incapable to fight. I think it even said that Bane was just having fun against Kas'im, going so far as to say that Kas'im knew he was clearly outmatched.

^ More double standards mr he who knows nothing?

Originally posted by Wolverine2179


So are you admitting to be actually stupid but your upset that i am outright telling it to you in your face? Whats the matter? Can't handle the truth?
And yet you say kasim MIGHT win, now your contradiction yourself making you look even less credible.



You really don't realize how ridiculous you are acting, do you?

I said that you shouldn't call someone fat (the following were put in caps, but apparently that didn't make you notice it) especially when the person isn't actually fat. In other words, you shouldn't bash someone for being an idiot especially when that person (me) isn't really an idiot. How do you fail to read my posts? It's really ridiculous.

I said that Kas'im might win, but not necessarily. There is no contradiction. One may win and yet still not necessarily win.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179


Yeah, he could barely block the attack for your information and vaders command of the force as of TFU surpasses that of bane as of POD.


Prove it.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179


Kasim may throw up a shield but whats to say that vaders powerful attacks and sheer rage isn't going to smash through any defences kasim put up?(Bane did the same thing to qoordis).
Yeah and the only thing kasim has ever done with the force(at least to what i recall) is barely throw up a shield to block a force attack.
And how is kasim going to close the gap if vader unleashes an attack that kasim cannot defend against?


What's to say that Vader's powerful attacks and sheer rage is? You have no proof that it can.

You misread PoD. By "barely" you mean that Kas'im was surprised and only got to throwing the shield up at the last possible instant. Not that he couldn't stop it, he just got surprised. And yet despite being rushed to throw it up and only doing it at the last possible instant, he still blocked an attack that could pulverise his body (have any of Vader's attacks done that to anyone?) and knock down a temple.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179

And how is kasim going to close the gap if vader unleashes an attack that kasim cannot defend against?

Hell even if he does close the gap, he isn't going to be owning vader in sabers because he is fighting a style that has elements of the majority of light saber forms and that gives vader a slight advantage and would allow vader to hold his own until theres an opportunity to unleash massive TK attacks to overwhelm kasim.

You have seen what vader is capable off during a saber duel, he, durign a duel is capable of manipulating the environment to his advantage and then kill his enemies.
So what if vader mastered only a tenth of every force moves? Are you implying that he is weak? Because vaders command of the force says other wise and he greatly surpasses any nightsisters(that has more force moves than him) .


He blocks Vader's force attacks. And even if he isn't able to completely, Vader WILL have to struggle quite a bit to penetrate Kas'im's defenses, so he won't win "by far".

Gives Vader a slight advantage over a guy that knows ALL classic forms because his (Vader's) style has a few elements of every form? What???

Kas'im has also manipulated his environment.

Kas'im's saber abilities was described as "perhaps the greatest ever", and this is after the times of Ragnos/Exar Kun/Revan, meaning that he is more than a match in sabers vs those great duelists.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179


And according to some guide, it was stated that galen marek learned many dark side powers from vader.

Now lightning + TK isn't considered "many" you know?
Gideon listed the quotes and i will get them.




So what is your point here moron? Just what are you trying to tell me?

That kasim's saber mastery is going to overwhelms vaders command of the force?

Just see the above, I'm just saying the force can overwhelm a saber master because according to numerous individuals, the force is a far more terrible weapon.



So Vader knows force lightning? Even if he knew how to use it (and taught it to Marek) he himself is incapable of doing so due to his suit, so it's irrelevant here.



It MIGHT overwhelm Vader's force superiority, or AT LEAST give Vader a hard time. You keep on forgetting that I'm not rooting for Kas'im just saying that the fight would be close.

And a saber master can also overwhelm a force guy, ala Kas'im's quote.

More coming later...

Your ownage will come in a second.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
Your ownage will come in a second.

I'm waiting...

You can't kill someone with a saber if you're being kept at bay or being tooled with the force.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
You can't kill someone with a saber if you're being kept at bay or being tooled with the force.

Kas'im was surprised and at the last possible instant threw up a force shield. And yet despite only having a very small time to throw it up, it still blocked an attacked that could pulverize his entire body and knocked down an entire temple. And he didn't have time to prepare the force shield. Plus, he was tired from fighting Bane for quite a while. This shows that he can in fact block very powerful force attacks.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
I'm waiting...

Well, since you said "a few seconds" and now you aren't even viewing the page, it can be assumed that you have conceded defeat.

If not, then please respond to my arguments, because I have a feeling that you'll respond to THIS post and not to my important ones that counter your arguments.

Bane was building up his power for that attack. You don't think Kas'im was in slight preparation for that? Even still, how can you simultaneously block and attack? I would still put Vader's force prowess over that of Bane. I don't care about all that "moving moons out of orbit" shit. That's just EU overpower bullshit.

Even still, this is about starkiller, yes? Who beat Vader in both sabers and force. I don't see how Kas'im would survive.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Well, since you said "a few seconds" and now you aren't even viewing the page, it can be assumed that you have conceded defeat.

If not, then please respond to my arguments, because I have a feeling that you'll respond to THIS post and not to my important ones that counter your arguments. You lack of attention to detail and blatant disregard for facts is the main reason he's arguing with you. Not to pick straws, but he said "in a second," and you quoted him as saying "a few seconds" which he didn't say. Sounds trivial, I know, but it shows a trend of misquoting and manipulating quotes to fit your argument.

Please whats your argument now? I want your cheap entertainment.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall


You really don't realize how ridiculous you are acting, do you? No, but i do realize how idiotic you are.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

I said that you shouldn't call someone fact (the following were put in caps, but apparently that didn't make you notice it) especially when the person isn't actually fat. In other words, you shouldn't bash someone for being an idiot especially when that person (me) isn't really an idiot. How do you fail to read my posts? It's really ridiculous. The only problem is that I'm calling you an idiot, because you are an idiot.

So now your saying you aren't "really" an idiot? Well, suffice to say, that you are still an idiot.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

I said that Kas'im might win, but not necessarily. There is no contradiction. One may win and yet still not necessarily win. Fair enough.


Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

Prove it. Fair enough. Lets see, bane smashed the foundations of a 20 000 year old temple, vader on the other had was capable of choking his victims millions of lightyears away(the bounty hunter wars).

Last i recall people were arguing how uber nadd was because he pushed vodo from light years away.

Hmm, vader overwhelmed a powerful jedi that was capable of tearing a space station apart with relative ease, i also forgot how vader was able to go toe to toe with galen marek and all he got from the ideal was being blacked out for a few minutes and getting back right on his feet and taking no damage from galens suicide attack.

Its hysterically funny that vader isn't stronger than POD bane despite the fact that he was capable of ragdolling kento marek and block attacks powerful enough to instantly kill the stormtroopers that were beside vader.

Its also incredibly embarrasing that vader was able to smash a building sized barrier with one attack.

Pretty stupid how vader was able to crush an entire hut that was stated to be as durable and strong as steel.

Yeah and lets forget the fact that vader was able to crush the interior of a medical facility despite being in the suit for only 5 minutes.

And as for vaders devastating force wave, he did not get drained of energy until fatigue like bane in POD.

Now, shut the hell up.


Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

What's to say that Vader's powerful attacks and sheer rage is? You have no proof that it can. Because its been proven by POD that a vastly more powerful force user is capable of smashing through his opponents defences?

Coupled with vaders rage, his attack is going to been even more lethal and more powerful

So your right, despite path of destruction proving my points, i, according to you, have no proof at all.


Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

You misread PoD. By "barely" you mean that Kas'im was surprised and only got to throwing the shield up at the last possible instant. Not that he couldn't stop it, he just got surprised.
Yeah and that shows kasims weakness in far sight ability which once again shows that he isn't that powerful of a force user despite the fact that bane was charging his force wave and kasim had ample time to see it.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

And yet despite being rushed to throw it up and only doing it at the last possible instant,
Read the novel clearly fool, the novel made it clear that during kasim's speech, bane had been gathering enough force energy to throw at kasim.

Now, despite that, kasim didn't sense bane gathering energy nor did he for saw the attack. Kasim was lucky to even conjure up a defence and whats to say that he would be able to throw up a last minute shield if vader attacks him with the force during the duel?
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

he still blocked an attack that could pulverise his body (have any of Vader's attacks done that to anyone?) and knock down a temple. Yes, if you read the empire comics, and he barely blocked the attack despite ample time during their speech.

And get it right idiot, bane destroyed the foundations of a 20 000 year old stone temple.


Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

He blocks Vader's force attacks. And even if he isn't able to completely, Vader WILL have to struggle quite a bit to penetrate Kas'im's defenses, so he won't win "by far". As far as a pure force fight goes, he WILL go by far.

Its a different story when it comes to an all out fight.

And even IF kasim could block vaders attacks, what is there to suggest that kasim has enough power to block any massive debris or pillars that vader would hurl at him?

Even galen marek had some difficulty(according to the scripted gameplay) deflecting massive pillars that vader easily threw at him.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

Gives Vader a slight advantage over a guy that knows ALL classic forms because his (Vader's) style has a few elements of every form? What??? Because vaders form is alien to kasim, it will throw him off for a while giving him the opporunity he needs to unleash attacks against kasim.


Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

Kas'im has also manipulated his environment. To the extent that vader did? When was the last time he was able to seize a telekinetic storm with massive pillars and use it to kill his enemies?

When was the last time he tore out an entire bridge to crush his enemies to death?
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

Kas'im's saber abilities was described as "perhaps the greatest ever", and this is after the times of Ragnos/Exar Kun/Revan, meaning that he is more than a match in sabers vs those great duelists. Its funny how you bring up revan and ragnos despite the fact that they are UNKNOWNS.

Ragnos has done absolutely nothingwith sabers(the ancient sith used swords anyways) and your comparing kasim to him?

Bringing unknowns into a thread is going to do nothing but further damage your credibility.


Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

So Vader knows force lightning? Even if he knew how to use it (and taught it to Marek) he himself is incapable of doing so due to his suit, so it's irrelevant here.

Your the one claiming that vader is ignorant in the force, im just simply proving you wrong.

Weather vader can use lightning or not(he can't) is completely irrelevant.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

It MIGHT overwhelm Vader's force superiority, or AT LEAST give Vader a hard time. You keep on forgetting that I'm not rooting for Kas'im just saying that the fight would be close.
Close in sabers, far in force and a debate in all out fight.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

And a saber master can also overwhelm a force guy, ala Kas'im's quote. Provided he gets up close and kasim is a fallible third party character.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

More coming later... I look forward to taking a shit on your arguments.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Well, since you said "a few seconds" and now you aren't even viewing the page, it can be assumed that you have conceded defeat.

If not, then please respond to my arguments, because I have a feeling that you'll respond to THIS post and not to my important ones that counter your arguments. Funny how you took my word so literally which further proves your a dumbass, and how have i been defeated when you make things up and offer absolutely no proof at all?

Originally posted by Wolverine2179

As far as a pure force fight goes, he WILL go by far.

Its a different story when it comes to an all out fight.

Close in sabers, far in force and a debate in all out fight.

...

You just agreed with me! That was my ENTIRE point: in an all out fight, it would be very CLOSE, and not a curbstomp in Vader's favor.

Thank you for conceding defeat.

I said a debate in an all out fight, its still highly likely vader would stomp on kasim IF he keeps him at bay and unleashes the environment and force at him.

THAT was my original point, its just sad your too much of an incompetant to read and comprehend.

I actually noticed yesterday that you all were arguing the same points. I just thought it was too funny to say anything, lol.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
I said a debate in an all out fight, its still highly likely vader would stomp on kasim IF he keeps him at bay and unleashes the environment and force at him.

THAT was my original point, its just sad your too much of an incompetant to read and comprehend.

If Vader is FAR more powerful, then it wouldn't be a debate.

And you said "Its a different story when it comes to an all out fight." after saying that Vader will win by far, meaning that Vader WON'T win by far, which is evident in the "Its a DIFFERENT story...".

THe fact that a powerful force user can break through an opponents defense in lieu of actually using sabers to win is confirmed by TFU.

Originally posted by truejedi
THe fact that a powerful force user can break through an opponents defense in lieu of actually using sabers to win is confirmed by TFU.

If the Force guy is capable of breaking through the other's force defenses, and Kas'im was shown to be able to block an attack that could pulverize his entire body and knock down a temple.

Ok, one time by a guy who was not Vader.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
If the Force guy is capable of breaking through the other's force defenses, and Kas'im was shown to be able to block an attack that could pulverize his entire body and knock down a temple. You have repeated that one thing like, 6 times, and yet you are still losing. We know he did, but that dosnt mean he is uber in the force, it just means he practiced on making shields really good, but what you are neglecting, is that Vaders style partially depends on him picking up stuff with the force, and flinging it. A force shield wont stop that, then when Kas'im dodges, he has a lightsaber in his stomach, or something else hitting him in the head.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Ok, one time by a guy who was not Vader.

Marek did it to Vader. Also did it to Kazden Paretus.

Originally posted by truejedi
Marek did it to Vader. Also did it to Kazden Paretus. I 'm referring to Kas'im specifically, and that he did that against Bane in a certain situation... not Vader.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
I 'm referring to Kas'im specifically, and that he did that against Bane in a certain situation... not Vader.
i gotcha!

Originally posted by Incanus
You have repeated that one thing like, 6 times, and yet you are still losing. We know he did, but that dosnt mean he is uber in the force, it just means he practiced on making shields really good, but what you are neglecting, is that Vaders style partially depends on him picking up stuff with the force, and flinging it. A force shield wont stop that, then when Kas'im dodges, he has a lightsaber in his stomach, or something else hitting him in the head.

Proof that a Force shield can't stop the enemy from picking you up? Isn't that the same thing as a force push only vertical instead of horizontal movement being forced? If so, then why didn't Bane just pick up Kas'im? Why doesn't Vader pick up everyone he sees? Couldn't a random padawan pick up Yoda and throw him around, since it can't be blocked?

Prove that kasim can block a massive pillar thrown by vader, even galen couldn't stop it immediately.

You are still losing the debate but you just can't accept it can you?

Originally posted by Wolverine2179


You are still losing the debate but you just can't accept it can you?

...?

According to who? Do you not realize how many stupid arguments your side has made? Such as "oh you can't block it when someone uses the Force to throw you!" WTF? In that case, a padawan can beat Yoda by using the Force to keep on throwing him all over the place.

According to every intelligent being in thise forum save for you.

And when did i say a padawan can fling yoda all over the place? Why are you making shit up and misquoting people just to suit your argument?

And when did i say "oh you can't block it when someone uses the Force to throw you!" ?

Not YOU, Incanus said that.

OK: how about this? You respond to my posts from before, but this time not only explain why you think that they're wrong, but how they're "idiotic". One can be "wrong" (which I'm not, BTW) and yet still not be idiotic.

For example:

I claimed that Kas'im could block Vader's force attacks because he could block an attack that was capable of knocking down a temple and pulverizing his body.

You've explained why you think that it's wrong.

Now, explain how it's idiotic. Like as in explain how it's stupid, not just how it's wrong.

What? You don't want to? Because you can't. Even if I'm wrong, it IS perfectly REASONABLE and NOT idiotic to believe that someone could stop Vader's attack because they stopped temple busting attacks. Whether or not that's correct, it makes sense. How's that idiotic? Seriously?