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It's debateable whether Lucifer can take on Destiny which is why I made this thread. Who takes it?

I'd say Lucifer since he defied Yahweh's "destiny" for him and wandered to the void for all eternity.

Destiny.
Even Lucifer himself is bound by his book.

Lucifer, probably.

It's hard to debate purely conceptual entities, such as Destiny. ermm

I loved the Destiny/Lucifer exchange.

And I think that scene made it fairly clear that straight up even Lucifer can't take Destiny.

Didn't Lucifer finally break the bounds, and that's what impressed YHWH?

Originally posted by Astner
Didn't Lucifer finally break the bounds, and that's what impressed YHWH?
Perhaps.

But that does not necessary equate that he could defeat Destiny.

Originally posted by Galan007
It's hard to debate purely conceptual entities, such as Destiny. ermm

agreed

Originally posted by Martian_mind
I loved the Destiny/Lucifer exchange.

And I think that scene made it fairly clear that straight up even Lucifer can't take Destiny. Do you have any scans? I'd love to see that.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
I loved the Destiny/Lucifer exchange.

And I think that scene made it fairly clear that straight up even Lucifer can't take Destiny.

The fcuk if it did.

Originally posted by Blight
Do you have any scans? I'd love to see that.
http://s1d3.turboimagehost.com/t/1159365_luc0.jpg http://s1d3.turboimagehost.com/t/1159361_luc1.jpg http://s1d3.turboimagehost.com/t/1159362_luc2.jpg http://s1d3.turboimagehost.com/t/1159363_luc3.jpg http://s1d3.turboimagehost.com/t/1159364_luc4.jpg

The dude who collapses dimensions by entering them, or a guy chained to a book.

Hm.


At least Destiny would know ahead of time that his ass was about to be kicked.

Originally posted by Enyalus
The dude who collapses dimensions by entering them, or a guy chained to a book.

Hm.


At least Destiny would know ahead of time that his ass was about to be kicked.

Lucifer collapsed that particular dimension because God wanted to keep him from entering it.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Lucifer collapsed that particular dimension because God wanted to keep him from entering it.

I thought that it was because it was a particularly vulnerable dimension (not as stable as others). But I knew there was a specific reasoning behind it.

Originally posted by Enyalus
The dude who collapses dimensions by entering them, or a guy chained to a book.


If you put it that way:

Abraxas or LT


The dude who collapses multiverses by merely approaching them, or a guy who is bound by a set of rules by TOAA. (LT has NO willpower, unlike all the other abstracts. He only carries out the judgment given by TOAA)

Lucifer.

If Michael, Lucifer, and Gabriel were the Presence's very first creations then they *predate* Destiny, because they *predate* the DC omniverse itself. Neither of the endless were created before creation but afterwards instead.

Lucifer went against the Presence's wishes to merge with him. So, in essence he beat his father's destiny that was laid out for him and chose another route of his own free will. Lucifer is infinite will personified.

Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
Lucifer went against the Presence's wishes to merge with him. So, in essence he beat his father's destiny that was laid out for him and chose another route of his own free will. Lucifer is infinite will personified.

They were both outside of creation at the time. Destiny at that point really didn't matter. Nor did Lucifer have infinite willpower during that (his power came from Yahweh's creation, which no longer existed as Yahweh's.)

Books of magic for the win i say

it clearly depicts that death will be the last entity in the universe
( after she takes destiny).... thus lucfier can not do anything to change or remove himself from destiny

urgo destiny wins be default

Originally posted by rougeredmage
it clearly depicts that death will be the last entity in the universe
( after she takes destiny)

Does it now?

Doesn't DC have the concept of Oblivion? If so, that would/should technically be the last entity in the universe.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Doesn't DC have the concept of Oblivion? If so, that would/should technically be the last entity in the universe.

Fenris the Wolf is the Vertigo (and thus I presume the DC) embodiment of Entropy...

I don't know about any Oblivion.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Doesn't DC have the concept of Oblivion? If so, that would/should technically be the last entity in the universe. Well, as Eny said there's Fenris (embodiment of absolute destruction) - but I've never seen an 'Oblivion entity.'

That doesn't really matter anyway, though. We've already seen (on panel) which entity is left after all creation is destroyed, and that entity is Death of the Endless.

Destruction from the Endless maybe?

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Destruction from the Endless maybe?

He's a quitter.

Destruction of the Endless/Fenris, are one on the same.

Originally posted by Galan007
Destruction of the Endless/Fenris, are one on the same.

No shit? Didn't know that.

So the DC continuum has 2 embodiments of Entropy?

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
So the DC continuum has 2 embodiments of Entropy?

You talking about Imperiex Prime as the other?

Kinda doesn't exist anymore.

I meant Fenris and Destruction. But I guess Galan meant they're actually the same person.

Fenris is the God of Entropy, Destruction of the Endless is not Fenris though there jobs are the same...

Originally posted by Enyalus
No shit? Didn't know that. http://s1d3.turboimagehost.com/t/1162760_fenris1.jpg

Originally posted by Galan007
http://s1d3.turboimagehost.com/t/1162760_fenris1.jpg

I just thought that Destruction of the Endless was the red-headed guy who quit his job.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I just thought that Destruction of the Endless was the red-headed guy who quit his job. 'M-bodies' of these concepts come in an array of different flavors.

Big, brown, and shaggy. Mmmm.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Big, brown, and shaggy. Mmmm. PG-13 site, buddy.

uhuh

Originally posted by rougeredmage
Books of magic for the win i say

it clearly depicts that death will be the last entity in the universe
( after she takes destiny).... thus lucfier can not do anything to change or remove himself from destiny

urgo destiny wins be default

Didn't lucifer left the DC omniverse with Death when she closed the door to it on her way out? Before she left she killed off all her siblings including her eldest brother Destiny. If that's true, then Lucy for the win. Since it's canon that Lucy is above Death.

Destruction and Fenris are differrent

Destiny wins. Destiny knows thingss which are not yet written in his book those things he cannot divulge but he can certainly utilise in a layla miller way. ie appearing for a brief moment in the mortal plane to pick a flower might be all that destiny has to do to see to the destruction of Lucifer.

Originally posted by shiv
Destruction and Fenris are differrent Per the scan I posted, they are apparently the same.

If Death is destined to close the door on the universe...then shouldn't destiny still hold sway at that point?

Hard to say who would win between these two, though Fenris and Destruction are not the same being, they do partake of the same goals (Fenris more then Destruction since Des quit his job and Fenris is a god of Entropy).

Quiet guys. Galan's right. No arguing.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Quiet guys. Galan's right. No arguing. Shaddup.

I've just always based my opinion that they are one in the same based on that scan. I could very well be wrong in assuming such.

Sad thing is my last comment wasn't sarcastic.

Or were you? mmm

I don't think that Destruction of the Endless and Fenris are one and the same.

And like I said, Lucifer wins. There is no logical or feat-based argument to say otherwise.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Doesn't DC have the concept of Oblivion? If so, that would/should technically be the last entity in the universe.

I've already told you that DC has the concept of Oblivion. Actually 2 if you count the Void. Here is part of the list of cosmic abstracts. Notice it says, "oblivion".

Originally posted by Enyalus
Pretty much.

The argument for Destiny so far has been 'he knows things.' Which is cool with me, if everyone can agree that Stephan Hawking beats, let's say, classic Drax in a brawl. He could, run over the comic Drax is in with his wheelchair.

Originally posted by Mindset
He could, run over the comic Drax is in with his wheelchair.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yes you do. Admit it.

uhuh

*dramatic voice*

Never.

uhuh

The point is, Destiny outlived his purpose at the end of the DC omniverse. He's incapable of living past the death of the DC creation. And so his sister Death killed him off. It wasn't his "destiny" to move on past the DC omniverse. Death and Lucifer were the only ones left. We all know how Lucifer's fate ended. He wandered into the void for all eternity never to return. He chose his own "destiny" *after* the embodiment of Destiny, the endless himself, was killed off.

So Lucifer won ultimately. He over-rided the destiny that was laid out for him by Yahweh which was written in Destiny's book and he outlasted Destiny of the endless himself.

Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
He chose his own "destiny" *after* the embodiment of Destiny, the endless himself, was killed off. naw

Originally posted by CosmicSurfer
He over-rided the destiny that was laid out for him by Yahweh which was written in Destiny's book and he outlasted Destiny of the endless himself.

You don't know what was written in Destiny's book because no one was allowed to see it.

Originally posted by Enyalus
You don't know what was written in Destiny's book because no one was allowed to see it.
Well he escaped Yahweh's "plan" which is the same as escaping Destiny...

Originally posted by King Kandy
Well he escaped Yahweh's "plan" which is the same as escaping Destiny...

Yahweh was the one who gave him the letter allowing him to leave Creation in the first place. It was always a part of the plan. That he doesn't want to 'meld minds' with Yahweh after they are both in the void is irrelevant. At that point, both are outside of Destiny's control.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Yahweh was the one who gave him the letter allowing him to leave Creation in the first place. It was always a part of the plan. That he doesn't want to 'meld minds' with Yahweh after they are both in the void is irrelevant. At that point, both are outside of Destiny's control.
The Presence was never in Destiny's control at all, it's the opposite actually. The fact that Lucifer defied the Presence's will showed that Destiny (or Yahweh) had no influence on him. It was Lucifer's will that enabled him to escape Destiny which is why the Presence wanted to merge in the first place.

Originally posted by King Kandy
The fact that Lucifer defied the Presence's will

How? By leaving Creation, right?

By not merging with him.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Does it now?

yes it does.

and lucifer is more powerfull then dream not death their is a difference

lucifer did not escape destiny he only decided to make his own away from the infulence of the presence their is a difference.

Originally posted by Enyalus
You don't know what was written in Destiny's book because no one was allowed to see it.

True.

But the point is Destiny was killed off. And since he's killed off, whatever destiny that was laid out for Lucy in that book left with the endless as well. So I think it's safe to say that Lucy chose his own destiny of his own will outside the influence of either Destiny of the endless, since he's already dead, and the Presence.

IMO, this fight doesn't have a simple answer.