Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

1. Lightsaber
2. Force
3. All-Out
4. Bane, Nihilus & Revan vs. Luke, Caedus & Windu.

Who wins

Luke in all 3, 4 would need its own thread.

I suggest that you pull big N from the team in the next thread. We still can't judge him accurately. Revan too, although to a lesser extent.


Luke takes all three.

Bane has displayed a planetary command of the Force at a point in time where he was far from as powerful as he would be by RoT, manipulated sub-atomic particles, displayed an alarming natural affinity for the lightsaber (becoming perfectly familiar with the hundreds of thousands of move and sequences that the saber staff has at its command, if not millions, and developing his own counters for them) that as far as we know has only been beaten by Ulic Qel-Droma and Nomi Sunrider, and on top of all of that, possesses the many advantages of the orbalisk armour, which also happens to grant him a somewhat unique form with the manner in which he can integrate his very body parts into his lightsaber form (which in itself is somewhat unique thanks to the hilt being hook shaped - which Luke can't be said to be familiar with) and also allows him to go on the offence to a far greater degree without sacrificing his defence. He's also displayed to be a far cleverer fighter for the most part, manipulating the environment to his advantage and basing his entire system of combat around the orbalisks, and appears to possess a far greater level of knowledge in the Force. Bane wins all 3, and #4 would be an absolute curbstomp.

And Nebaris strikes again........

My name is Faunus!

Luke would take all three
sabers - would be a long fight but he could still do it he just needs to go for the head
force - all he needs to do is zap him with lightning and its done
all out - same as top

bane doesn't use defense at all so he would just charge right in lukes attacks

But seriously what suggests that Luke would take all three of these other than an appeal to popular concensus? I can admit that Luke may be the more powerful of the two, and probabaly is, but even that's slim, and I don't see how Luke competes in any of the other areas. And Bane possesses two distinct advantages over him in the form of the orbalisks (protection and healing factor) and unique fighting style.

orbalisks don't protect against Electric Judgment and the only thing unique about Bane's fighting style is his lightsaber everything else is pretty much the same style as luke

I'm going to ignore the 'theyz mites be teh zame pwr lvl @9000!!111" aspect of your post and focus in on what isn't pure fanboyism. Bane has a 'unique fighting style,' you claim. That may be true. What we know is that Luke has no fighting style. He does not use a classical form, never having had the chance to learn one. The best he could be classified as is a severely altered Djem So. (Mimicked from Vader.) The last time Bane was confronted with a fighting style he didn't know he was put on his ass in seconds.



So that is out. The protection is negated by Shatterpoint (which Luke knows) instantly revealing the weak points at the wrists and ankles/head. It might even show him how to dismantle the suit externally.


*You misspelled 'consensus.' Just thought you might like to know.

Red Nemesis u made a really good point about the shatterpoint

It's good for Bane that he's got his lightsaber and Force shield for that then. Realistically speaking, you'd have to be far more powerful than your opponent to be able to break through their defences with a tangible attack like lightning, as you'd have to break through their Force defences, the protection afforded by their lightsaber, and in Bane's case, the limited protection the orbalisks still provide (as it's noted that the orbalisks were still capable or resisting hundreds of thousands of volts of electricity). Luke is never shown to have been very masterful or controlled with the technique, and he's not significantly more powerful that he'd be able to break through all of Bane's defences.

And no, the manner in which he integrates melee attacks into his offence (which he can execute repeatedly without fear of losing body parts), and his body into his defence makes him a vastly unorthodox combatant. He can literally use his arms to parry lightsaber attacks, he can hold the blade of a lightsaber in place with his hands, he can constantly push Luke back with lethal kicks, he could literally trample Luke... Given enough creativity the possibilities are practically endless.

And as said, Luke hasn't displayed a level of superiority over Bane in Force powers that would grant him the ability to simply overpower his defences, and it's more likely to turn into a close combat fight in which case the orbalisks will factor in heavily.

It's good for Luke that he's got a lightsaber and Force powers too. Poor Bane, always being given a hard time by these people who can defend themselves.

soo ur saying look would have to be very powerful to be able to use lightning with enough strength to break Bane's defences.
Luke has the Force potential of what his father was supposed to become so thats the force potential the Chosen One which would make him the most powerful jedi by a huge margin

luke*

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
I'm going to ignore the 'theyz mites be teh zame pwr lvl @9000!!111" aspect of your post and focus in on what isn't pure fanboyism. Bane has a 'unique fighting style,' you claim. That may be true.

There's no "may" about it. Luke has never come across a combatant even remotely similar to Darth Bane. He will be completely unprepared against such a fighter. The manner in which Bane fights is fundamentally unique.



Actually, Luke had plenty of opportunity to learn the classical forms from the holocrons he managed to gather as well as the Chunthor (the Jedi Archive transport). Could you provide proof for the assertion that his style is completely unique, other than the assertion that he had no opportunity to learn the standard ones.



His ten year younger self, against a being with a mastery of the lightsaber lightyears more versatile and wide ranging than Luke's (he possessed high end mastery of all seven forms of the lightsaber: literally millions of moves and sequences at his disposal, all of which Bane was completely unfamiliar with).

The fact that you neglect to mention that the person who put him on his ass was Kas'im automatically renders this a one sided assessment fallacy, and could you provide proof that it was done in seconds? While Bane, by his own admission, was royally ****ed by that point, he still maintained enough control over the duel to direct it on a path of his choosing, all the way outside the temple.



No, all that tells Luke is where the weak spots are, it does nothing to undermine just how limited his options at harming Bane with a lightsaber still are, and it does nothing to undermine just how much more Bane can focus on the offence without leaving himself defensively vulnerable.



Blind speculation ergo pointless.



I most certainly did not.

1. Orbalisks protect against lightsabers and maybe weak Force lightning. They do nothing about Force sever, TK, Morichorro, or any of Luke's various Mind F'ing powers that He's used in the past.

2. A kick is rarely lethal and I find it difficult to believe that Luke Skywalker will die to a Force Kick.

3. Luke will not be surprised by an opponent that is mostly saberproof- He has years against the Vong to get used to it. (Slayers)

4. Luke has shown to be far stronger in the Force than Bane. Bane moved a moon, but Luke has Dovin Bassals. (SP?)
-Note: Bane never moved a moon. The best feat he's got is the Temple, and Luke far eclipses that on his worst days.

Luke wins all three; he's a superior lightsaber duelist, superior Force user, and a more seasoned combatant.

how old would u say Bane was during Rot and how old was LoTF Luke
Luke also has experience on his side

1. Anything that's tangible and external that isn't millions of volts of electricity, and again, what is it with your "maybe"s? It's factually capable of absorbing hundreds of thousands of volts of lightning.

2. A force empowered kick from FRICKING (CAPS LOCK for added emphasis) Darth Bane can at the very least push or hold Luke back, if not disarm him or cause him a mild injury.

3. Last I checked the Vong didn't integrate their own protected body parts in quite the same manner that Darth Bane did. In terms of how they fight, they aren't even remotely similar.

4. Again, Bane displays a planetary command of the Force when he possesses the relative level of training time of a Jedi youngling. He's since vastly improved, and despite the multitude of sources Luke has appeared in, has actually displayed a more versatile and wider ranging mastery of the Force. The temple's far from Bane's best feats (one of the reasons why I rarely bring it up) and all you have to do is look through Gideon's posts to see how embarrassingly Luke can perform on his worst days.

And yes, that took all 13 minutes, and what?!

Originally posted by Red Nemesis


4. Luke has shown to be far stronger in the Force than Bane. Bane moved a moon, but Luke has Dovin Bassals. (SP?)
-Note: Bane never moved a moon. The best feat he's got is the Temple, and Luke far eclipses that on his worst days. Temple? No, more like the foundations of an extremely old temple.

Shut up, Faunus.

Originally posted by Publius II
Shut up, Faunus. I don't think even Gideon is as egotistical as you, Pub.

Luke wins all three.

what u all dont agree with faunus, come on now bane could kill yoda, superman, galactus, and god, at the same time with only 1 force kick.

Well obviously.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
1. Orbalisks protect against lightsabers and maybe weak Force lightning.

There's no "maybe" about it. Bane was hit with a million volts of current from five force pikes. The orbalisks absorbed most of it, but enough got through to stun him for a few seconds.

The assassins he was fighting were astonished that anything smaller than a bantha (i.e. elephant-sized) could withstand a direct hit from a single maximum power force pike, let alone five.

Originally posted by Eminence
Shut up, Faunus.

Why? They're making good, accurate points.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
I'm going to ignore the 'theyz mites be teh zame pwr lvl @9000!!111" aspect of your post and focus in on what isn't pure fanboyism. Bane has a 'unique fighting style,' you claim. That may be true. What we know is that Luke has no fighting style.

Yes he does. He has a unique style all his own that has evolved and improved over the years.

Luke is in fact an incredible swordsman, Caedus even considered that Luke could possibly be the greatest duellist there ever was. To say Luke is unskilled is doing him a great disservice.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
He does not use a classical form, never having had the chance to learn one. The best he could be classified as is a severely altered Djem So. (Mimicked from Vader.)

Luke has had ample chance to learn. There's Kenobi's book (the one that showed him how to build a lightsabre). There's his contact with the Jensaarai who were founded by members of the old Order, the stuff he recovered from the Chu'unthor etc.

As I said, Luke's fighting stye is something entirely his. One that blends classical techniques with what he devised himself.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
The last time Bane was confronted with a fighting style he didn't know he was put on his ass in seconds.


He was losing, sure, but he still managed to maneuvre the fight outside. He deserves credit for that.

Triple post FTW

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Why? They're making good, accurate points.

Well Faunus is.

But yeah, I've gotta agree with Faunus on this one; by all available evidence, Bane definitely has more going for him from a combat standpoint.

Hardly. By all available evidence, Luke's the best

How Bane and his Orbalisks would stand up to Emerald Lightning...

WoW makes me angry...

So angry.

I hate it!

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
How Bane and his Orbalisks would stand up to Emerald Lightning...

Probably not very well. Even if it didn't kill him he'd be stunned long enough for Luke to behead him.

What would be cool would be to see a literal Blitzkrieg with Bane pitting his purple Sith Lightning vs Luke's green Emerald Lightning.

Originally posted by Faunus
It's good for Bane that he's got his lightsaber and Force shield for that then. Realistically speaking, you'd have to be far more powerful than your opponent to be able to break through their defences with a tangible attack like lightning, as you'd have to break through their Force defences, the protection afforded by their lightsaber, and in Bane's case, the limited protection the orbalisks still provide (as it's noted that the orbalisks were still capable or resisting hundreds of thousands of volts of electricity). Luke is never shown to have been very masterful or controlled with the technique, and he's not significantly more powerful that he'd be able to break through all of Bane's defences.

This covers it pretty adequately.

first off when has bane ever blocked lightning with his force defenses. second if he is using his saber to prevent luke from cutting off his head and wrists whats left to stop a lightning attack. bane is one of my favorite characters but luke just has too much speed, power, knowledge of the force, and too much of a variety of skills for bane to overcome. he is simply out classed deal with it

Never. But Force defences have been shown to be able to block lightning, and Bane has shown he can do those so....



Because Lukes gonna shot lightning from his eyes now is he? If Lukes using his saber to attack Bane, how's he gonna attack with EL? Think next time, O.K?

Originally posted by Raptor22
first off when has bane ever blocked lightning with his force defenses.

Since when does one need to have displayed something for it to be the case? He's capable of conjuring up Force Shields which have been proven to be capable of defending against the attack when Farfalla does it in Ro2. They also don't require active concentration to be in effect.



1. Force defences.

2. Orbalisk armour.

3. The chances that Luke will be able to pull off such an attack directly in the middle of an exchange against someone as ferocious and offensively inclined as Bane are minimal at best.



Really? Because you say so? Support this assertion. Bane displayed a level of speed that highly trained Force Users weren't capable of visually seeing when he was the Sith equivalent of a Jedi youngling. He's far more powerful by Ro2 and Luke to my knowledge hasn't displayed anything even remotely on par.



Really? Because you say so? Support this assertion. Bane displayed a planetary level of Force power when he absorbed, stored (and protected himself internally from), and redirected enough energy to ravage an entire planet, across the entire planet, when he was the Sith equivalent of a Jedi youngling. He's far more powerful by Ro2 and Luke to my knowledge hasn't displayed anything that could be considered too much for that.



Really? Because you say so? Support this assertion. Bane obtained the entire knowledge bases of Darth Revan, and Freedon Nadd, has had ten years to learn from them both all the while displaying a completely astronomical learning rate. Luke was never much of a scholar to my knowledge and I don't recall any source depicting him as knowing all that much.



Really? Because you say so? Support this assertion.

Originally posted by Faunus:

Darth Bane for one, displayed the ability to fill up a room capable of housing hundreds of students with a storm of force lightning with a single burst of energy, all while still a Sith initiate, and not an hour after having learnt the technique in the first place (a display of mastery with the technique that rivals Palpatine's best showing after decades of growth and refinement with it).

He's shown himself capable of energy absorption throughout all part of his body rather than just his hands (such as his face and back), the ability to store it for long durations of time and protect his internal organs from it, and the ability to redirect it across an entire planet (which would require that he be able to sense out the landscape across the planet with the Force in the first place).

His telepathic resistance is of such a high level that Kaan's manipulations -- which were capable of keeping the entire BoD under control, which included multiple notably powerful Sith Lords such as Kas'im, Quordis, Kopekz, and Seviss Vaa -- "had no more effect than a rusted knife scraping against the hide plates of a Halurian ice-boar."

He was capable of resisting one of the deadliest poisons in the Galaxy (something that the dark side is explicitly stated to not be very effective at), and this after having been unaware that it was in his body for most of the time until it began to maximise on its deadly effect.

When faced with eight Sith Umbaraan Assassins who had trained their entire lives to use the Force to shield themselves in it, he showed himself capable of completely revealing there presences with a single wave of intangible dark side energy.

His mastery as a seer is so great that he can see "far into the future," and he can apparently do this at will whereas all other seers in the mythos have only ever had visions come to them in situations beyond their control.

And most notable, of course, is his telekinesis, which had shown itself capable of absolutely crushing the likes of the highly ranked and powerful Quordis, breaking through his defences "as if they weren't there," the ability to affect vast areas of landscape with simply force pushes, and eight years into his career, five years before his current state at the end of Ro2, the ability to use it on the subatomic level, a level of control that's completely unprecedented and surpasses that of any other by about ten miles.




No. By virtue of mine and Faunus' superior arguments on the matter, Bane has more going for him.

and now Nephthys's as well.

When you said that I heard the distinct sound of 'One of us'. Weird huh?

Only a tiny bit.

That isn't quite accurate Neb. Bane destroyed Revan's holocron after only a few months (weeks?) of study in PoD. The contents of that holocron were primarily philosophical (suggesting the Rule of Two) and ritualistic in nature (the TB was a ritual, as was the Force Storm). We don't know if Bane learned any combat applicable techniques from Revan.

So giving him 10 years with that holocron and citing it as a source for combat maneuvers is misleading at best.

Luke is the greatest and most powerful Jedi Master in recorded SW history - period. Darth Caedus said so himself. Bane would give a good account of himself, but ultimately in the end he would lose.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
That isn't quite accurate Neb. Bane destroyed Revan's holocron after only a few months (weeks?) of study in PoD. The contents of that holocron were primarily philosophical (suggesting the Rule of Two) and ritualistic in nature (the TB was a ritual, as was the Force Storm). We don't know if Bane learned any combat applicable techniques from Revan.

So giving him 10 years with that holocron and citing it as a source for combat maneuvers is misleading at best.

Some kind of wingman you're turning out to be...

We're supposed to be allies! Did you not receive my pm?

Originally posted by Welkin Gunther
Some kind of wingman you're turning out to be...

We're supposed to be allies! Did you not receive my pm?

No offense, but is IS true: Bane crushed Revan's holocron after he was finished using it.

I think that Luke will win, Bane might put up a good fight in sabers but in the end Luke shall destroy all.

Originally posted by Welkin Gunther
Some kind of wingman you're turning out to be...

We're supposed to be allies! Did you not receive my pm?

Oh... right.

LUEK LOOOSES B/C HE CANT MOVE MTNS OR SUBATOMIC PARTICLES N TEH ORBALISX MEKE BENES STILE UNIQUE!!?!?!?!1111///1/1/1/11//1?!?!?!`~~`?~?1/`1



I'm sorry Neb, but I just don't see it. Luke's speed in is absolutely incredible, as is his discretionary Force strength (again, shown against Caedus). He is, at this point, a step beyond the very high tiers that we're used to; He's more than Bane can take.

originaly posted by Noesoeb

Since when does one need to have displayed something for it to be the case? He's capable of conjuring up Force Shields which have been proven to be capable of defending against the attack when Farfalla does it in Ro2

Well if they never displayed it and its never been stated then what are u going by? and are u really comparing Farfallas force power to lotf Lukes?

posted by Noesoeb
1. Force defences.

2. Orbalisk armour.

3. The chances that Luke will be able to pull off such an attack directly in the middle of an exchange against someone as ferocious and offensively inclined as Bane are minimal at best.

1. Farfallas stasis broke through banes defense and held him for a second and he's not nearly as powerful as luke.
2. The whole point of the lightning is to get through the orbalisks how will they help.
3. Never quote me the odds

posted by Noesoeb

Really? Because you say so? Support this assertion. Bane displayed a level of speed that highly trained Force Users weren't capable of visually seeing when he was the Sith equivalent of a Jedi youngling. He's far more powerful by Ro2 and Luke to my knowledge hasn't displayed anything even remotely on par.

Bane displayed those feats of speed at the academy before he got his orbalisks. since Zannah stated that he has "hundreds of the creatures clung to him" ROT hard cover pg 150. and since the DSSB states that each shell weighs 1 kg and since the term "hundreds" implies at least 200 he has at LEAST 200 kg's of weight on him. thats like carrying a full grown man on your back while fighting. You can't use his speed and quickness before the orbalisks and the defense after them it doesn't work that way, unless it states somewhere that he retained his full speed after them, and if it does id appreciate u letting me know where.

quoted by Noesoeb

Really? Because you say so? Support this assertion. Bane displayed a planetary level of Force power when he absorbed, stored (and protected himself internally from), and redirected enough energy to ravage an entire planet, across the entire planet, when he was the Sith equivalent of a Jedi youngling. He's far more powerful by Ro2 and Luke to my knowledge hasn't displayed anything that could be considered too much for that.

Unless Bane is going to have the entire brotherhood of the sith powering him up during the fight this is really a moot point. Also Streen did the same thing to repulse daalas star destroyers when they attacked the jedi temple on yavin and students channeled their power through him. are you saying Streen is more powerful than Luke too because of this.

quoted by Noesoeb

Really? Because you say so? Support this assertion. Bane obtained the entire knowledge bases of Darth Revan, and Freedon Nadd, has had ten years to learn from them both all the while displaying a completely astronomical learning rate. Luke was never much of a scholar to my knowledge and I don't recall any source depicting him as knowing all that much.

Statement already negated by RedNemesis Thanks

Originally posted by Faunus:

When faced with eight Sith Umbaraan Assassins who had trained their entire lives to use the Force to shield themselves in it, he showed himself capable of completely revealing there presences with a single wave of intangible dark side energy.

And most notable, of course, is his telekinesis, which had shown itself capable of absolutely crushing the likes of the highly ranked and powerful Quordis, breaking through his defences "as if they weren't there," the ability to affect vast areas of landscape with simply force pushes, and eight years into his career, five years before his current state at the end of Ro2, the ability to use it on the subatomic level, a level of control that's completely unprecedented and surpasses that of any other by about ten miles.

First off he didn't sense the assassins with the force he got a twinge from the orbalisks and then noticed that the forrest was silent. Second the assassins had the upper hand when 5 of them shocked him and brought him to his knees and they would have killed him too if they capitalized on their advantage.
Third who cares if he can TK quordis even Bane said he is weak just like the rest of the brotherhood and nowhere near Lukes power.
And finally WHO CARES if he can manipulate the force sub-atomicaly he uses it to assemble holocrons just like every other sith that has made one and what the hell is that going to do in a duel. people keep using it as an huge advantage for bane but what the hell is he going to do with it.

Also as far as saber dueling The orbalisks quite often send bane into a "mindless Rage" so all his knowledge and strategy go right out the window and to quote Bane "The power came at the expense of subtly and cunning" Darth Bane ROT hardcover Pg. 215. And Zannah is quoted as saying about Sarro Xaj that "even though his technique was more refined than her masters, she'd been able to withstand it so far." Rot hardcover pg 202. so if Sarro some one who has been a jedi Knight for only 7 years is more refined than Bane's, what would it be compared to luke's whos been a Master for decades.

lastly some people compare banes feats saying he accomplished them at the sith academy when he was the equivalent of a jedi youngling. Maybe a youngling who is in his twenties who led soldiers through numerous battles using his force abilities to aid in victory for years before going to the academy. he would be comparable to that youngling.

Sorry Noesoeb and fannus Bane is outclassed and outmanned in a fight with Lotf Luke just like the two of u are in a debate with me.

Sorry i dont know why the quotes didn't come out bold they were on my screen but when i posted it they came out normal. sorry again for the inconvenience

perhaps Jaina + Jacen would be a better match for Bane.

Perhaps Jacen himself would be a better match for BAne.

jacen isn't invincible like bane is though

Originally posted by Raptor22
originaly posted by Noesoeb

Since when does one need to have displayed something for it to be the case? He's capable of conjuring up Force Shields which have been proven to be capable of defending against the attack when Farfalla does it in Ro2

Well if they never displayed it and its never been stated then what are u going by?

You're clearly not the most accomplished reader here so I'll break it down real nice for you using numbers and everything.

1. Bane factually possesses the Force shield ability.

2. The Force shield ability factually possesses the capabilities to protect the user from Force Lightning, as shown when Farfalla performs that very action in Ro2.

3. Ergo, Bane can definitively use the Force to defend against Force Lightning.

Now was that really so hard?



No, I'm explaining that the technique can be used to protect oneself from Force lightning, and using Farfalla's usage as a validating example.



After having been powered up by Worror's (noted for being an extremely powerful Jedi who had been instrumental in some of the Republic's most important wins during the war, and possessing a natural talent for battle meditation) battle meditation, having been gathering energies for enough time that the narrator felt the need to make a note of it, and on a distracted Bane who was in the middle of charging at Worror. And even then it was only capable of holding him for a split second. Farfalla was incidentally one of the greatest Jedi Masters the era had to offer.



Their ability to absorb hundreds of thousands of volts of electricity? Again, reading would be nice.



I don't recall quoting anything; again, it's called a dictionary. Try spending a few minutes reading through it every now and then.

Common sense would dictate that against someone who can afford to almost exclusively go on the offensive and has displayed absolutely unparalleled levels of speed and ferocity, that the odds that Luke would be able to pull off such an attack (which would require a free hand and concentration) would be minimal.



1. For all the added weight that would slow Bane down, the orbalisks more than make up for with the sheer adrenaline and darkside energies that they constantly fuel him with.

2. The added weight would bring about diminishing returns given how heavy he already actually was.

3. It was only the original orbalisks that attached themselves to his body that weighed that much; those that took form from the existing orbalisks were noticeably smaller and as such would have weighed less given that they were of the same material.

4. He's had over ten years to grow in power following that instance, approximately five times his then total amount of learning time, so logic would dictate that he'd be far more powerful by Ro2 and as such have a much higher capacity for enhancing his speed with the Force.

Evaluating the different advantages and single disadvantage that the orbalisks provide, and logic would dictate that he'd be capable of moving at far greater speeds than his Sith apprentice days.



Given that absorbing, storing and redirecting the energy that the Brotherhood simply provided was all done under his own level of ability and not with anyone's help, no it's not.



Given that Streen didn't do it on a planetary scale, you're committing a false comparison.

All that was "negated" by Red Nemesis was that Bane had been in a position to learn from Revan's holocron for those ten years; this does nothing to take away from the fact that he did have access to Sadow's entire knowledge base during those ten years, and it does nothing to take away from the fact that you still haven't managed to support your claim that Luke's knowledge would be too much for Bane to handle; try and get to that.



And then went on to reveal the presences of all eight of them with one intangible wave of dark side energy, exactly as Faunus stated. Being caught off guard is one thing when you're unprepared; it's a totally different thing when you're actively honing your perceptions.



Given that Bane essentially believed that the orbalisks were universally indestructible at that point in time and made no noticeable attempt to even avoid the assassin's force pikes, this has no bearing on: a) his ability to protect himself from such an attack or b) his new found awareness of the limitations of his armour.



1. It was that he did it with such an overwhelming level of ease that makes the display impressive.

2. It was, among the other examples I listed, being used to point out Bane's variety of abilities.

3. Bane's comments that The Brotherhood were weak was based around their ideals, not each member's individual level of personal power. Quordis was clearly relatively powerful given his status among the Sith (head of the Academy, Kaan's right hand man after Kopekz) during such a martial era.



I don't recall Bane saying that.



Anyone who recognises the fact that it represents a completely unparalleled level of control over the Force would more than likely care about it.



A completely unsupported assumption. Nowhere in the novel is it once said that all holocrons have to be made with such a level of precision; all that's stated is that Bane made these sub-atomic alterations to "ensure" that the matrices fitted perfectly in place.



It's a demonstration of Force control that directly determines how effectively he'd be capable of applying his level of power on a small scale in a close combat situation such as the one being discussed in this thread.



Read the ^ and try to keep up.



1. A situation would have to trigger that "mindless rage,"; every time that it happened in the novel it had been triggered by an incident of extreme frustration or anger; when no such incidents presented themselves he's shown the ability to plan for a battle in a calculating manner, fight cleverly with the use of his orbalisk armour and use it to catch his opponents off guard, and analyse the situation mid battle and adjust his tactics accordingly (such as how he did so in the final duel in Ro2 where he realises that Worror was the key to the Jedi Masters' survival and adjusted his tactics by maneuvering the battle (whilst feigning weakness and creating the illusion of being pushed back) as close to Worror as he could get so he could quickly finish him off).

2. For the purpose of the neutrality of these versus threads, we naturally assume that each character is fighting under their best condition.

3. Even if Bane were to be sent into a "mindless rage," it would only disrupt his strategy and tactics, not his sheer battle technique given that he's still conscious during the ordeal and that his attacks would operate subconsciously off of his own muscle memory.



1. It's Zannah's opinion on the matter.

2. Experience isn't the be all end all, it can more than be made up for in sheer natural talent, as Bane himself displays when he masters every defencive application to every single move and sequence for all seven forms of the double-bladed lightsaber in approximately six months.



His age is irrelevant given how late it was when he actually began his training, his instinctive use of the Force would have done nothing to add to his understanding or technical ability with the Force, and the point that you clearly missed was that by that point, he'd literally had a level of learning and training time on par with a Jedi youngling, a low level Jedi youngling in fact. He went on to spend an entire decade to grow in power and improve his mastery of the Force; approximately five times the amount he had then actually had under his belt.



Right, ignoring how miserably you actually failed at undermining the points that I presented, you've still yet to actually present any of your own. I don't know whether that weird quoting mess-up was done intentionally so you wouldn't have to directly address my requests that you prove up on your ridiculous claims, but regardless nobody with the exception of Dr McBeefington was fooled by those tricks and as it stands not a single person -- including my former ally and partner who will now be dealing with Gideon on his own -- has managed to make a logical case for Luke taking this.

i dont have time tonight to negate welkin gunthers post i will tomorrow but i am confussed about 1 thing are welikn gunther, noesoeb, and fannus all the same person under different names

I'd call that some serious ownage. Raptor22, you should prepare for the most annoying debate in your life.

Originally posted by Raptor22
i dont have time tonight to negate welkin gunthers post i will tomorrow but i am confussed about 1 thing are welikn gunther, noesoeb, and fannus all the same person under different names

Yes

Originally posted by Raptor22
i dont have time tonight to negate welkin gunthers post i will tomorrow but i am confussed about 1 thing are welikn gunther, noesoeb, and fannus all the same person under different names Raptor22, just ignore him. Your right about luke > bane but don't expect that guy to back down at all, he has an incredible obsession with a fictional character.

Just walk about from the debate, there is no shame in doing so against this guy.

You italicize that word way too much.

bye bye nebaris

Bane disagrees:

"my studies led to the conclusion that the Brotherhood, having amassed an army of thousands, had thinned the power of the dark side."

"The power of the dark side cannot be dispersed among the masses."

-- the Essential Guide to the Force, page 167.