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http://comics.ign.com/articles/941/941294p1.html

Did you like it?

I really did, had good showings for both of them.

Originally posted by Anti-Monitor
http://comics.ign.com/articles/941/941294p1.html

Did you like it?

I really did, had good showings for both of them.

Good showing on sentry, he held back & was naive like superman

I'll most likey get it

It got a good review on Comics Bulletin.com, I'm hoping it stays good unlike the other Punisher series.

lol. I'm dying to see how Frank got away. Him gunning for Norman looks like a good story though. Will get it later today.

The art is cool

Originally posted by Warrior18
lol. I'm dying to see how Frank got away. Him gunning for Norman looks like a good story though. Will get it later today.

He got away by using smarts over brawn.

So now Sentry has a heat vision...? Did Marvel really need to copy that power, too?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
So now Sentry has a heat vision...? Did Marvel really need to copy that power, too? All for grabs!

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
So now Sentry has a heat vision...? Did Marvel really need to copy that power, too?

Hes a 2nd rate clone dont u know?

Really though who would believe Frank Castle would blow up a school (or was it a hospital?) to get away? Its against his moral code.

Originally posted by Putar
Really though who would believe Frank Castle would blow up a school (or was it a hospital?) to get away? Its against his moral code.

It was a warehouse.

He specifically says "Bellevue Hospital. Bomb in the basement. you've got five seconds..."

I wish Hulk kick Bob's ass again.

Originally posted by Putar
Really though who would believe Frank Castle would blow up a school (or was it a hospital?) to get away? Its against his moral code.

Yeah but this is from the same guy where murder isn't against his moral code. Punisher = hypocrite.

Originally posted by willRules
Yeah but this is from the same guy where murder isn't against his moral code. Punisher = hypocrite. He only punishes the "guilty" or evil people, he doesnt want to hurt innocents.

Originally posted by Putar
He specifically says "Bellevue Hospital. Bomb in the basement. you've got five seconds..."

Read the comic and stop looking at the 3 or 4 scans the sites show in the preview.

Originally posted by Putar
Really though who would believe Frank Castle would blow up a school (or was it a hospital?) to get away? Its against his moral code.

Nobody but as a "hero", The Sentry couldnt take the chance he wasnt bluffing.

Originally posted by Putar
He only punishes the "guilty" or evil people, he doesnt want to hurt innocents.

And where does the Punisher fit into that? Cos by his own standards, he's guilty of murder.

Originally posted by Anti-Monitor
Read the comic and stop looking at the 3 or 4 scans the sites show in the preview.

I've read the issue and he Plants the fake bomb in the hospital

Originally posted by willRules
And where does the Punisher fit into that? Cos by his own standards, he's guilty of murder.



I've read the issue and he Plants the fake bomb in the hospital

I know that...I have the issue, he didnt blow up Hospital. It was a bluff.

Isn't Norman supposed to have bulletproof skin?

Unless that was a particular caliber Frank was using...

It was a skrull sniper rifle, thats how he was firing from four miles away.

So although Norman is pretty durable, a skrull weapon would kill him dead.

What did Sentry do in this issue? I don't have the budget to be able to pick up this series as well as Dark Avengers. I just wanted to see if Franks escape was any good.

Also, the preview was the first thing that Sentry's done in ages that made me think, 'that was cool'. Mainly Frank's narration of ' This is something you can't prepare for' or whatnot.

Originally posted by roughrider
Isn't Norman supposed to have bulletproof skin?

Unless that was a particular caliber Frank was using...

I don't think so. He has a healing factor but it's quite slow reacting. When he survived the infamous glider attack (Amazing Spidey #121 I think) it wasn't until his body was in the morgue did he actually recover

Originally posted by Putar
Really though who would believe Frank Castle would blow up a school (or was it a hospital?) to get away? Its against his moral code.


People also think that Frank castle is crazy and may go over the edge at any moment. Thats why when Punisher threatened a cop he still agve him the information he needed. Remember he did once go on a killing spree killing normal people, but it was later revealed it was a mind-control drug.


Theres just this thing with Frank that you never know. Also other heroes sometimes dont see him as much better than a villain.


Originally posted by willRules
Yeah but this is from the same guy where murder isn't against his moral code. Punisher = hypocrite.

Don't see what you're getting at there. He kills criminals not law abiding citizens.

Originally posted by willRules
And where does the Punisher fit into that? Cos by his own standards, he's guilty of murder.




ermm

Originally posted by willRules
Yeah but this is from the same guy where murder isn't against his moral code. Punisher = hypocrite. Shut your mouth! durfist


Anyway, I've reserved the issue at my comic store.

Average issue. Good art.

Good Punisher showing.

Sentry sucks.

That is about all.

Sentry was pretty badass in the comic. Admitedly supermanish but definetly badass.

Ok so whos gonna be Punishers new sidekick, its some guy with blonde hair. Hank Pym?

Noooooooo... Not hank pym. I get the feeling it has something to do with his last sidekick maybe, who looks to be the new jigsaw

Originally posted by Putar
Noooooooo... Not hank pym. I get the feeling it has something to do with his last sidekick maybe, who looks to be the new jigsaw

That guy had black hair and has no scientfic knowledge, it was specfifically stated that Frank would be getting more advanced tech. Whats wrong with Hank Pym?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
That guy had black hair and has no scientfic knowledge, it was specfifically stated that Frank would be getting more advanced tech. Whats wrong with Hank Pym?

It's just not going to be Pym. Pym's going to be a major player in Mighty Avengers, possibly the leader of the new team. He's working within the system- he wouldn't attempt to have Osborne, his boss, killed by the Punisher.

I thought it was an AWESOME showing by the Sentry. Bob could have knocked Frank out at any point... everything Frank did was a desperate move ("industrial grade acid... could burn through concrete. I'll be lucky if it messes up his hair"... the Sentry is just too nice of a guy, and not really using his potential... the Punisher outright states that the reason there even WAS a conflict was because the Sentry wanted to talk. Did you see how fast he moved at the beginning? Castle didn't even have time to drop the rifle he was holding before the Sentry flew the however many miles it was.

Originally posted by tjcoady
It's just not going to be Pym. Pym's going to be a major player in Mighty Avengers, possibly the leader of the new team. He's working within the system- he wouldn't attempt to have Osborne, his boss, killed by the Punisher.

I thought it was an AWESOME showing by the Sentry. Bob could have knocked Frank out at any point... everything Frank did was a desperate move ("industrial grade acid... could burn through concrete. I'll be lucky if it messes up his hair"... the Sentry is just too nice of a guy, and not really using his potential... the Punisher outright states that the reason there even WAS a conflict was because the Sentry wanted to talk. Did you see how fast he moved at the beginning? Castle didn't even have time to drop the rifle he was holding before the Sentry flew the however many miles it was.

Yeah we know but it was still impressive that he got that far and actually manged to trick him.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah we know but it was still impressive that he got that far and actually manged to trick him.

True- and the ole' "I planted a bomb somewhere where there are innocents" is a classic trick- Batman pulled it on Superman in one of the tellings of when they first met, and it's always a good one.

Pym is not a physicist, I think there are other scientists more apt to arm Punisher as far as his style go.

I finally got this got the one with the Varient cover and i enjoyed it, I'm guessing he'll be gonna after Mr Fear in the next issue.

Originally posted by Bentley
Pym is not a physicist, I think there are other scientists more apt to arm Punisher as far as his style go.

I think PYm built Ultron. Being able to shrink and enlarge objects involves physics.




Originally posted by Kazenji
I finally got this got the one with the Varient cover and i enjoyed it, I'm guessing he'll be gonna after Mr Fear in the next issue.

Why? Is that all that seems kinda like a joke.

Originally posted by roughrider
Isn't Norman supposed to have bulletproof skin?

Unless that was a particular caliber Frank was using...

Norman's skin isn't bulletproof He has Spider-Man's durability level at best. It's Green Goblin suit that protects him. Not always it does its job though.

Oh, and Frank used "a high-powered Skrull sniper rifle".

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
That guy had black hair and has no scientfic knowledge, it was specfifically stated that Frank would be getting more advanced tech. Whats wrong with Hank Pym? His last sidekick was blond. Thats why i thought it might have something to do with him. Just a wild guess though i would be super suprised if it came true.

Originally posted by Putar
His last sidekick was blond. Thats why i thought it might have something to do with him. Just a wild guess though i would be super suprised if it came true.

Well when Punsiher saw him, he said "Who the hell are you?", also the new sidekick is supposed to be new and make us think WTF.

Apart from Hank Pym I cant think of any other really good blonde guys at tech.

It is possible that the image on the screen was computer generated or something. I always though his new armourer would be Tony Starks or Tinkerer.

When I hear Punisher vs. Sentry, several images of nausea-inducing PIS usually float through my head, but I'd have to commend the writer for this one. The fight was actually intelligently done.

Maybe I'll start picking up Punisher now.

What comic does this continue in? I look for Punisher Dark Reign issue 2 but couldnt find it.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Norman's skin isn't bulletproof He has Spider-Man's durability level at best. It's Green Goblin suit that protects him. Not always it does its job though.

Oh, and Frank used "a high-powered Skrull sniper rifle".

Originally posted by willRules
He has a healing factor but it's quite slow reacting. When he survived the infamous glider attack (Amazing Spidey #121 I think) it wasn't until his body was in the morgue did he actually recover

I just double checked. In a Spider-man one shot (that came out at the culmination of the clone saga) called Spider-man: The Osborn Journals, Norman reveals that he thought the Goblin formula gave him super strength. It wasn't until the glider incident (Amazing Spider-man #121) that he realised he also had a healing factor. This healing factor allows Osborn to withstand an onslaught of Pumpkin bombs (He survives a bag full of them at the end of the clone saga)

Originally posted by Anti-Monitor
What comic does this continue in? I look for Punisher Dark Reign issue 2 but couldnt find it.

Next month... ermm

By the way its really gonna go down....

http://uk.comics.ign.com/articles/939/939670p1.html


IGN Comics: Stark made it S.H.I.E.L.D.'s business to hunt down Frank at all costs. Will H.A.M.M.E.R. take on a similar mission?

Remender: Frank puts himself in the sights of some big players. By issue #6 when the extent of what he's up against is revealed… no one will see what is coming.

http://uk.comics.ign.com/objects/142/14290805.html

Punisher Vol. 7 #2

Frank Castle is losing the war. Organized crime has New York City in a death grip that, thanks to the powerful propaganda machine of the corrupt new government, is being swept under the rug. To stem this dark tide, Frank Castle must embrace new tactics, embarking on a bloody public campaign that will expose the dark underbelly of the supposedly squeaky-clean regime to the world, and a new sidekick, who’ll help him get out the message. Who would be stupid enough to team up with the Punisher now that his rifle is pointed squarely at the biggest villains in the Marvel Universe? The answer will turn the Punisher into the most proficient villain killer in town!

God dammit this sounds exciting I cant wait to see how this develops.

Originally posted by willRules
Yeah but this is from the same guy where murder isn't against his moral code. Punisher = hypocrite.

And where does the Punisher fit into that? Cos by his own standards, he's guilty of murder.

Frank knows he's a ruthless killer and accepts it, because the ends justify the means:

"I hate it when people jerk around the system and get off. I'm guilty. I should pay. No apologies, no excuses."

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

Why? Is that all that seems kinda like a joke.

Well with The next issue sneek peek with the varient issue #1 it has someone that looks like Mr Fear unless its suppose to be someone else

http://www.marvel.com/comics/onsale/lib/view2.htm?filename=/comics/onsale/covers/0209/PUNISHER002_COV_A_col.jpg

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Frank knows he's a ruthless killer and accepts it, because the ends justify the means:

"I hate it when people jerk around the system and get off. I'm guilty. I should pay. No apologies, no excuses."

I dont know about the end justifies the means, people who follow that philosophy kill innocent people.




Originally posted by Kazenji
Well with The next issue sneek peek with the varient issue #1 it has someone that looks like Mr Fear unless its suppose to be someone else

http://www.marvel.com/comics/onsale/lib/view2.htm?filename=/comics/onsale/covers/0209/PUNISHER002_COV_A_col.jpg

Damn man that cover looks so ambigous, that could be Dr Doom for all we know. Mr Fear is hardly important.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Frank knows he's a ruthless killer and accepts it, because the ends justify the means:

"I hate it when people jerk around the system and get off. I'm guilty. I should pay. No apologies, no excuses."

Ah well as long as Frank accepts he's guilty, then every thing's ok. That's like a thief admitting he is one and then going out and mugging someone. At least the important thing is that he accepts it right?

And end justifies the means? What a load of crap!!! Even by comic book standards that's delusional. He'll stop once he has killed EVERY criminal right?

The Punisher's a cool character and I've got nothing against him. I'm just making it clear that his whole ideology is hypocritical and unjustifiable

Originally posted by willRules
The Punisher's a cool character and I've got nothing against him. I'm just making it clear that his whole ideology is hypocritical and unjustifiable

Well you defintely haven't proven that hes hypocritical.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well you defintely haven't proven that hes hypocritical.

I don't need to. Punisher does that himself.

Originally posted by willRules
I don't need to. Punisher does that himself.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Next month... ermm

By the way its really gonna go down....

http://uk.comics.ign.com/articles/939/939670p1.html


IGN Comics: Stark made it S.H.I.E.L.D.'s business to hunt down Frank at all costs. Will H.A.M.M.E.R. take on a similar mission?

Remender: Frank puts himself in the sights of some big players. By issue #6 when the extent of what he's up against is revealed… no one will see what is coming.

http://uk.comics.ign.com/objects/142/14290805.html

Punisher Vol. 7 #2

Frank Castle is losing the war. Organized crime has New York City in a death grip that, thanks to the powerful propaganda machine of the corrupt new government, is being swept under the rug. To stem this dark tide, Frank Castle must embrace new tactics, embarking on a bloody public campaign that will expose the dark underbelly of the supposedly squeaky-clean regime to the world, and a new sidekick, who’ll help him get out the message. Who would be stupid enough to team up with the Punisher now that his rifle is pointed squarely at the biggest villains in the Marvel Universe? The answer will turn the Punisher into the most proficient villain killer in town!

God dammit this sounds exciting I cant wait to see how this develops.

Same artist?

I hope so

I'm liking this new team more then the War Journal one.

Definetly better than the war journal team

I'm also hoping the series keeps going even after when Dark Reign is over and also makes it past #30 issues

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I dont know about the end justifies the means, people who follow that philosophy kill innocent people.

I'm talking about the Punisher here, not real-life psychopaths; but even in comics, Castle will kill vigilantes whose sloppy methods result in civilian casualties or who operate out of self-interest and personal vendettas.

Originally posted by willRules
Ah well as long as Frank accepts he's guilty, then every thing's ok. That's like a thief admitting he is one and then going out and mugging someone. At least the important thing is that he accepts it right?

And end justifies the means? What a load of crap!!! Even by comic book standards that's delusional. He'll stop once he has killed EVERY criminal right?

The Punisher's a cool character and I've got nothing against him. I'm just making it clear that his whole ideology is hypocritical and unjustifiable

In the case of the Punisher, the ends do justify the means. How often does he kill innocent bystanders either through recklessness or callousness? I can't think of one example. How many drug-dealing, murdering douche-bags has he killed? Thousands, and thousands more lives were changed for the better because of it, regardless of whether it was directly or indirectly.

That quote is great because it shows that American Judicial System is a failure, at least in Frank's perspective-- it's a revolving door; if it worked, he'd be in prison along with the same people he's out to kill, and he wouldn't have it any other way. However, despite being a criminal in the eyes of the law, Castle is a hero because his actions have positive outcomes. He doesn't simply kill for amusement; he does it to eliminate threats to civilians. That's what's important.

Frank himself is a little delusional. He is a traumatized man who lost his family, and is now fighting to eliminate crime-- it's the classic formula for a friggin' superhero. NONE of them will ever stop every criminal-- not Daredevil, nor Spider-Man, nor Batman-- but that's not the point of it all. The point is to make a difference, no matter how small. He'll stop once he is killed or no longer able to carry on with his work. Until then, he'll keep on at it.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
I'm talking about the Punisher here, not real-life psychopaths; but even in comics, Castle will kill vigilantes whose sloppy methods result in civilian casualties or who operate out of self-interest and personal vendettas.

Yeah because they killed innocent people, hell one of those people you are talking about killed some guy because he was selling weed and threathtened another guy because he was mexican. I dont like Einnis Punisher by the way.


Originally posted by Eternal Idol

In the case of the Punisher, the ends do justify the means. How often does he kill innocent bystanders either through recklessness or callousness? I can't think of one example. How many drug-dealing, murdering douche-bags has he killed? Thousands, and thousands more lives were changed for the better because of it, regardless of whether it was directly or indirectly.

That quote is great because it shows that American Judicial System is a failure, at least in Frank's perspective-- it's a revolving door; if it worked, he'd be in prison along with the same people he's out to kill, and he wouldn't have it any other way. However, despite being a criminal in the eyes of the law, Castle is a hero because his actions have positive outcomes. He doesn't simply kill for amusement; he does it to eliminate threats to civilians. That's what's important.

Frank himself is a little delusional. He is a traumatized man who lost his family, and is now fighting to eliminate crime-- it's the classic formula for a friggin' superhero. NONE of them will ever stop every criminal-- not Daredevil, nor Spider-Man, nor Batman-- but that's not the point of it all. The point is to make a difference, no matter how small. He'll stop once he is killed or no longer able to carry on with his work. Until then, he'll keep on at it.

If the ends justifies the means he would be willing to do anything to get results and hes not willing to do that.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
If the ends justifies the means he would be willing to do anything to get results and hes not willing to do that.

How do you figure? Now I'm not even sure if we're talking about he same thing anymore.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
How do you figure? Now I'm not even sure if we're talking about he same thing anymore.

I have seen that term used to describe Dr Doom, Punisher is nothing like Dr Doom. Whats your defintion of that term?


Also just looking at the term....the ends....the situation...justifies the means....so depending on the situation you may justify using different methods. Somebody like Dr Doom or an evil person could justify genocide.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I have seen that term used to describe Dr Doom, Punisher is nothing like Dr Doom. Whats your defintion of that term?


Also just looking at the term....the ends....the situation...justifies the means....so depending on the situation you may justify using different methods. Somebody like Dr Doom or an evil person could justify genocide.

If you go that route, then yes-- but I'm only referring to the Punisher. Doom is all about ego, and guys like Red Skull and the Hate-Mongerer operate out of bigotry. The Punisher doesn't go around and kill just anyone for touching a joint or jaywalking. He's very selective about who he kills. You have to be a rotten douche bag to make his shit-list, and if you're not quite there yet, he's been known to give opportunities to change.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
If you go that route, then yes-- but I'm only referring to the Punisher. Doom is all about ego, and guys like Red Skull and the Hate-Mongerer operate out of bigotry. The Punisher doesn't go around and kill just anyone for touching a joint or jaywalking. He's very selective about who he kills. You have to be a rotten douche bag to make his shit-list, and if you're not quite there yet, he's been known to give opportunities to change.

I see what you mean.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
I'm talking about the Punisher here, not real-life psychopaths; but even in comics, Castle will kill vigilantes whose sloppy methods result in civilian casualties or who operate out of self-interest and personal vendettas.

In the case of the Punisher, the ends do justify the means. How often does he kill innocent bystanders either through recklessness or callousness? I can't think of one example. How many drug-dealing, murdering douche-bags has he killed? Thousands, and thousands more lives were changed for the better because of it, regardless of whether it was directly or indirectly.

That quote is great because it shows that American Judicial System is a failure, at least in Frank's perspective-- it's a revolving door; if it worked, he'd be in prison along with the same people he's out to kill, and he wouldn't have it any other way. However, despite being a criminal in the eyes of the law, Castle is a hero because his actions have positive outcomes. He doesn't simply kill for amusement; he does it to eliminate threats to civilians. That's what's important.

Frank himself is a little delusional. He is a traumatized man who lost his family, and is now fighting to eliminate crime-- it's the classic formula for a friggin' superhero. NONE of them will ever stop every criminal-- not Daredevil, nor Spider-Man, nor Batman-- but that's not the point of it all. The point is to make a difference, no matter how small. He'll stop once he is killed or no longer able to carry on with his work. Until then, he'll keep on at it.

Don't get me wrong, Punisher's a cool character (I'm currently reading Ennis' run and it's great!) But his own actions betray his motivations. He operates under a perverse sense of morality that should ultimately condemn himself. If he killed someone because they murdered, what's his justification? They were a killer? Punisher deserves the same fate as them by his very own perverse logic.

Maybe he does it to stop them from killing, but then he has to admit that someone should kill him to stop him from killing. As for making the world a better place, that's not true. For every criminal he murders, reminds the reader that there is still one criminal running around committing mass murder. He may kill murderers, thieves, dealers etc etc, but he has committed genocide. I don't see it as a positive outcome in the end as Punisher is still out there, killing. Suddenly because the people are guilty, Punisher isn't?

Oh and by the way in the Daredevil vs Punisher mini (which DD mopped the floor with Frank for the most part) Punsiher accidentally shoots an innocent homeless man.

I think he's an interesting character, because fundamentally what he does is wrong, but it makes an interesting read to watch him do it. Also, even if I disagree I still see and respect your point, it very much ties into the whole capital punishment issue

Originally posted by willRules
If he killed someone because they murdered, what's his justification? They were a killer?


To stop them from murdering somebody else.

Originally posted by willRules

Maybe he does it to stop them from killing, but then he has to admit that someone should kill him to stop him from killing.


Then Batman and Spiderman should agree that somebody should beat the crap out them.

Originally posted by willRules

As for making the world a better place, that's not true. For every criminal he murders, reminds the reader that there is still one criminal running around committing mass murder. He may kill murderers, thieves, dealers etc etc, but he has committed genocide. I don't see it as a positive outcome in the end as Punisher is still out there, killing. Suddenly because the people are guilty, Punisher isn't?

That principle also applies to 100s of other superheroes. For every villain that gets locked up theres another one on the streets.

Originally posted by willRules

Oh and by the way in the Daredevil vs Punisher mini (which DD mopped the floor with Frank for the most part) Punsiher accidentally shoots an innocent homeless man.

Spiderman is also responsible for killing millions of people by accident....

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Then Batman and Spiderman should agree that somebody should beat the crap out them.


That was great.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
To stop them from murdering somebody else.
Then Batman and Spiderman should agree that somebody should beat the crap out them.
That principle also applies to 100s of other superheroes. For every villain that gets locked up theres another one on the streets.
Spiderman is also responsible for killing millions of people by accident....

Totally agree with you. Those heroes are just as guilty. Just because they drew the line at killing doesn't mean they aren't guilty of assault

Originally posted by willRules
Totally agree with you. Those heroes are just as guilty. Just because they drew the line at killing doesn't mean they aren't guilty of assault

Ok im not being rude, but you are being serious right? So if somebody were to stop somebody from being mugged and used physical force its wrong?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok im not being rude, but you are being serious right? So if somebody were to stop somebody from being mugged and used physical force its wrong?

Oh, no dude you're not rude, we're cool

Well muggings are wrong and it's right to prevent that from happening but I can't really condone violence. I would suggest seeking an alternative method of apprehension. If that's hypothetically impossible then I guess it's unavoidable, but I still wouldn't condone violence in itself even if that was the action taken. Violence should be a lassssst resort and even then it's difficult to see how it's positive or progressive

That's my opinion anyway

Originally posted by willRules
Oh, no dude you're not rude, we're cool

Well muggings are wrong and it's right to prevent that from happening but I can't really condone violence. I would suggest seeking an alternative method of apprehension. If that's hypothetically impossible then I guess it's unavoidable, but I still wouldn't condone violence in itself even if that was the action taken. Violence should be a lassssst resort and even then it's difficult to see how it's positive or progressive

That's my opinion anyway

There's also the question of proportionate response- duking it out with a mugger, even knocking him unconscious is one thing. But killing the dude? That's an entirely different level.

And Castle is not responding to a position where his life is in danger. He's actively going out and hunting people that he finds immoral.

But, off-topic. I'm sure I've seen a thread dedicated to the Punisher/morality question.

Originally posted by tjcoady
There's also the question of proportionate response- duking it out with a mugger, even knocking him unconscious is one thing. But killing the dude? That's an entirely different level.

And Castle is not responding to a position where his life is in danger. He's actively going out and hunting people that he finds immoral.

But, off-topic. I'm sure I've seen a thread dedicated to the Punisher/morality question.

Yeah it was my fault for bringing it up. It's because I'm reading Ennis' run at the moment. It's well written and it's so fun to see Punisher shoot someone's head off but I can't shake the little niggling thing at the back of my skull called my conscience. I struggle to like the Punisher as a character as a result. For the most part the plots fun and the action is as expected over the top but the Punisher just feels stunted to me. He's like a Batman or Wolverine anti-hero figure but without the character progression

Originally posted by willRules
Yeah it was my fault for bringing it up. It's because I'm reading Ennis' run at the moment. It's well written and it's so fun to see Punisher shoot someone's head off but I can't shake the little niggling thing at the back of my skull called my conscience. I struggle to like the Punisher as a character as a result. For the most part the plots fun and the action is as expected over the top but the Punisher just feels stunted to me. He's like a Batman or Wolverine anti-hero figure but without the character progression

What I like about the Ennis run is it's brilliantly simple formula, though. He creates a bad guy, and then progressively makes them so disgustingly, horrifically evil, until you can't wait for Frank to come in and kill them. I mean, I'm a pinko-hippie-liberal-pacifist and I was still like 'HELL YEAH FRANK! BLOW HER ****ING FACE OFF!' during the Ma Gnucci arc...

Originally posted by willRules
Don't get me wrong, Punisher's a cool character (I'm currently reading Ennis' run and it's great!) But his own actions betray his motivations. He operates under a perverse sense of morality that should ultimately condemn himself. If he killed someone because they murdered, what's his justification? They were a killer? Punisher deserves the same fate as them by his very own perverse logic.

Maybe he does it to stop them from killing, but then he has to admit that someone should kill him to stop him from killing. As for making the world a better place, that's not true. For every criminal he murders, reminds the reader that there is still one criminal running around committing mass murder. He may kill murderers, thieves, dealers etc etc, but he has committed genocide. I don't see it as a positive outcome in the end as Punisher is still out there, killing. Suddenly because the people are guilty, Punisher isn't?
Just an interesting tid bit. Have you read that one shot "Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe". It has a similar theme to your questions about the morality of killing killers and such. It was a fun side story, i recommend you pick it up. Punisher kills all the heroes villains etc. and at the end decides there is one left, himself, and takes himself out

Yeah thats Einnis... *shrug* I don't like him.

For his punisher stuff i only like his Marvel knights and MAX work (cept for that Punisher Born Nonsense)

Originally posted by Putar
Just an interesting tid bit. Have you read that one shot "Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe". It has a similar theme to your questions about the morality of killing killers and such. It was a fun side story, i recommend you pick it up. Punisher kills all the heroes villains etc. and at the end decides there is one left, himself, and takes himself out

Yeah, I've read it and thought it was awful. Shooting Spider-man in the face? Electrocuting Wolverine? Blowing up Doom's face? Awful, awful comic

Punisher kills the Marvel Universe is my least favorite thing Ennis' has ever written. It just seems needlessly violent- I'm a fan of the ole' Ennis' superviolence, but generally, he makes it serve the plot or act to reveal character traits. In "Punisher Kills the MU" it just seems like it was there just to shock, and well, a ton of violence isn't shocking- it's just kind of boring and needlessly brutal.

Fred Hembeck kills the Marvel Universe, on the other hand...

Now that's a good comic.

For a long time there was talk of a Deadpool Kills the MU in response the Punisher one, as a parody. I think a page was released in black and white (?) but nothing ever came out....

Originally posted by willRules
Oh, no dude you're not rude, we're cool

Well muggings are wrong and it's right to prevent that from happening but I can't really condone violence. I would suggest seeking an alternative method of apprehension. If that's hypothetically impossible then I guess it's unavoidable, but I still wouldn't condone violence in itself even if that was the action taken. Violence should be a lassssst resort and even then it's difficult to see how it's positive or progressive

That's my opinion anyway

Ok but violence is just like alot of other thing. Violence in itself is not inherently evil, its why and how you do it that makes it wrong.


Originally posted by tjcoady
There's also the question of proportionate response- duking it out with a mugger, even knocking him unconscious is one thing. But killing the dude? That's an entirely different level.

Thats Einnis Punisher. Marvel Knights intention was to make a harder more gritier version of Punisher. Previous versions of The Punisher would not have done this.

Originally posted by tjcoady

And Castle is not responding to a position where his life is in danger. He's actively going out and hunting people that he finds immoral.


Hes hunting people that put other peoples life in danger so does Batman, Spiderman, Wolverine etc.

Originally posted by tjcoady

But, off-topic. I'm sure I've seen a thread dedicated to the Punisher/morality question.

The current writer for this series in issue 1 stated that this issue would discussed in the coming issues. Its not off-topic really.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok but violence is just like alot of other thing. Violence in itself is not inherently evil, its why and how you do it that makes it wrong.


Ah but this is where my beliefs come into play. I agree with you but the practical application of of this attitude is a lot easier said than done. There are times when people should stand up or fight for what is right, the problem is people often don't know what's right for them.

I better stop there before I shout out "Jesus loves you."

Originally posted by willRules
Ah but this is where my beliefs come into play. I agree with you but the practical application of of this attitude is a lot easier said than done. There are times when people should stand up or fight for what is right, the problem is people often don't know what's right for them.

I better stop there before I shout out "Jesus loves you."

Sorry man better leave it there then.

Anyway heres a look at issue 2. Hes defintely packing some new shit.

http://www.marvel.com/news/comicstories.6646.EXCLUSIVE_FIRST_LOOK~colon~_Punisher_%232

http://www.comicsbulletin.com/reviews/123367009695871.htm

Review of Punisher issue 2. Unfortunately we dont know anything about Punishers new sidekick apart from the fact he called Henry and is a hacker. Its speculated by the reviewer that hes former SHIELD ousted by Osborns HAMMER.

The cover art is great

Originally posted by willRules
Yeah, I've read it and thought it was awful. Shooting Spider-man in the face? Electrocuting Wolverine? Blowing up Doom's face? Awful, awful comic
cosigned

I like the part where you see Frank using Hawkeyes bow to take out some people and also the part before it in the shop.

Thumbs up to you too.

Scans?

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Scans?

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/9105/punisher016.th.jpg http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/9083/punisher017.th.jpg

Oh shit. You know how Punisher 3 ended, I just got some previews of Punisher issue 4. I think Punishers speed is underated but when you consider what position he was in and how many guys where firing at him, what seemed to have happened next is impressive.


http://www.thepunisher.com/archives.html

OH MY GOD!!

In the next arc, what happens is, since the Hood is a general of a supervillain army, he assembles an entire platoon dedicated to hunting and killing Frank. They're all established characters and I think people are going to be really surprised by who they are. These characters haven't been seen in awhile,” Remender continued. “The second arc will establish them as a bunch of characters who are very, very motivated to see Frank Castle die. We're basically setting up a new rogues' gallery for Frank; a team of supervillains who really want to see him go down.”


Even with the Hood and an army of supervillains out to take him down, readers shouldn't count the Punisher out yet. Frank Castle has many things going for him, and his enemies don't truly appreciate just how cunning and resourceful an opponent the Punisher is. “Not only that, but Henry has an ace in a hole that the Punisher has never had before. Henry has got a hack into a cold war era S.H.I.E.L.D satellite which he can use to tell Frank the lay of the land; where he is at, where other people are, and what's coming for him,” Remender revealed. “He's an eye in the sky for Frank. He's running the mission for him.

“And as we saw in issue #2, Henry lead Frank to a treasure chest full of Marvel Universe weaponry. So now he's got a canister full of Pym Particles, Ant-Man's helmet, Blacklash's whip, a wall full of weaponry from Cable and the Skrulls, a glove from the Titanium Man armor and a lot of other powerful and crazy things. So armory-wise, Frank has now stepped up because Frank is only limited by the equipment he has. And now we've given him one hell of an armory and it really escalates and ups the ante on what he can accomplish.

It was Axel Alonso who said, 'If you really want to get you head around Frank Castle, he's the guy who, if Galactus was descending into the city, would only be thinking about needing a bigger gun.' I always liked that quote. That was what ultimately gave me the idea to give Frank that bigger gun.”



Looks like the getting my arse kicked by DD days are OVAH!

Just finished Punisher #3, loved how they've introduced punisher back into the marvel U and bloody hell The hood is keeping Castle on his feet with all his goons.

and surely that guy thats been hanging around with The Hood is Microchip.

Originally posted by Kazenji
Just finished Punisher #3, loved how they've introduced punisher back into the marvel U and bloody hell The hood is keeping Castle on his feet with all his goons.

and surely that guy thats been hanging around with The Hood is Microchip.

What? You mean this guy? I think it's Wilson Fisk.

Not a mistake The Kingpin would've made.

http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/2857/pun030011.th.jpg

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
What? You mean this guy? I think it's Wilson Fisk.

Not a mistake The Kingpin would've made.

http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/2857/pun030011.th.jpg

Yeah but if it was Wilson Fisk he would have said something like. Not a mistake I would have made.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah but if it was Wilson Fisk he would have said something like. Not a mistake I would have made.

C'mon man, villains LOVE referring to themselves in third person. Not to mention that he's abandoned Kinpin persona, tried to forget about his previous life and so on. Plus he's wearing the same jacket.

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/8975/ddreturnoftheking.th.jpg

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
C'mon man, villains LOVE referring to themselves in third person.

Villains like Dr Doom maybe, but even then there are lots of times when he doesnt.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

Not to mention that he's abandoned Kinpin persona, tried to forget about his previous life and so on. Plus he's wearing the same jacket.

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/8975/ddreturnoftheking.th.jpg

I think you might have a point there about the persona thingy, but hes not waering the same shirt. That guy looks a little overweight in that issue KP is actually supposed to be muscle, that guy in Pun just looks fat.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Villains like Dr Doom maybe, but even then there are lots of times when he doesnt.

Remender made Fisk refer to himself in third person so the readers would feel confused and compelled to read Brubaker's Daredevil. In DD #117 we see that he's back in NYC.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I think you might have a point there about the persona thingy, but hes not waering the same shirt. That guy looks a little overweight in that issue KP is actually supposed to be muscle, that guy in Pun just looks fat.

He had to change the shirt, 'cause it was covered in way too much blood. That jacket on the other hand is his new look, writers don't want to get rid of it. Classic Kingpin used to wear the white suit, current one has that dark jacket...

And Kingpin always had a big belly!

Also I can't imagine Parker playing chess with Microchip.

maybe The Owl...even though the hood tried to kill him...i dunno he's fat too

The dialogue doesn't read as how Wilson Fisk normally talks- generally he sounds a bit more pompous and a bit more intelligent.
And the Kingpin isn't drawn with just a belly like that- the guy looks too small to be him.

On the other hand, referring to himself as "The Kingpin" is easily explained: he's back in NYC just to take out the hand, not to become the Kingpin of crime again. So he could be referring to "the Kingpin" not as a person, but as a title he once had that the Hood wants to seize for himself. Plus, Microchip's dead.

Originally posted by tjcoady

Plus, Microchip's dead.

Yeah died in the MAX series but that is'nt canon to the Earth-616.

Originally posted by Kazenji
Yeah died in the MAX series but that is'nt canon to the Earth-616.

Wait, the Ennis run isn't canon?

Since when?

frank kills those who need to be killed (as he sees it). if that's really hypocritical than what about Captain America antics during civil war? wasn't what he was doing against the law?

Originally posted by Sado22
frank kills those who need to be killed (as he sees it). if that's really hypocritical than what about Captain America antics during civil war? wasn't what he was doing against the law?

How can you not see a difference between civil disobedience against a law that you believe to be unjust and unconstitutional and slaughtering people?

Thanks for keeping on topic sado22.......

Look again at the first panel. The guy's bald.

Stiltman your doing alot of speculating.

Was Microchip bald?

He might be bald but you cant see much of his head can we? Im pretty sure silhoueetes dont always show what the real person looks like. One example springs to mind is a shadow of Hercules attacking Zeus which really didnt have the shape of wha hercules looked like, it looked ambigous.

Your also stating that because villians refer to themselves in third person sometimes that this is what KP is doing.

Also you seem to be saying because you have an example of him wearing the same shirt then it must be KP.

That guy may have a big stomach but he looks small. KP is big in size and intimidating that guy just looks short and fat.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He might be bald but you cant see much of his head can we? Im pretty sure silhoueetes dont always show what the real person looks like. One example springs to mind is a shadow of Hercules attacking Zeus which really didnt have the shape of wha hercules looked like, it looked ambigous.

Shadows tend to be blurred. In that scan we have an actual silhouette resembling a bald man. Just a coincidence, you say?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Your also stating that because villians refer to themselves in third person sometimes that this is what KP is doing.

Like I said, Fisk abandoned Kingpin persona. More importantly, he just returned to NYC and didn't have an occasion to regain his title. Hood is a new candidate for Sorcerer Supreme btw, so Fisk would be in a really difficult situation if he wanted to mess with him.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Also you seem to be saying because you have an example of him wearing the same shirt then it must be KP.

Jacket. The same jacket.

And Remender wants Punisher to be in the big events. You really believe that he would just ignore Return of the King storyline and didn't make use of Fisk character, one of a few recurring Punisher villains?

DD #116 - March 4
http://www.marvel.com/catalog/?id=11140

Punisher #3 - March 18
http://www.marvel.com/catalog/?id=11206

Just a coincidence?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
That guy may have a big stomach but he looks small. KP is big in size and intimidating that guy just looks short and fat.

An artist's mistake? I dunno, have you seen Kingpin drawn by Opena before?

.

Originally posted by tjcoady
How can you not see a difference between civil disobedience against a law that you believe to be unjust and unconstitutional and slaughtering people?

Frank believes that locking some of these villains up only to release them to prey on innocents over and over is unjust and unconstitutional. Jail & prison are punishments (instead of attempts at reformations) that apparently aren't punishing enough. Like Captain America's resistance, he's doing the only thing he can do.

Wow, those guys had him to dead to rights, now we know what happened. Punisher is pretty fast.

http://www.comicsbulletin.com/news/123932057555532.htm

He's probably wearing something that he aquired from that guy in issue #2 that allows him to do it.

Personally I don't think Frank needed an external speed boost. He was always incredibly fast when it comes to hand to hand combat and avoiding gunfire. I can be wrong, though. We'll see.

ohmygod

http://f.imagehost.org/view/0518/Punisher_4_022

How do you do spoliers? Like I said that guy wasnt KP dummie.

I'm just waiting for Frank to attack Mobsters with Ants.

No more gangsters its all about super-villains now.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
ohmygod

http://f.imagehost.org/view/0518/Punisher_4_022

How do you do spoliers? Like I said that guy wasnt KP dummie.

Frank looks ridiculous with that helmet on.

Liking the shield motif though.

Is that a Antman helmet.....what Frank grows now?

Originally posted by Warrior18
Frank looks ridiculous with that helmet on.

Liking the shield motif though.

Nah its alright, I like ths skull sign on it.




Originally posted by The Nuul
Is that a Antman helmet.....what Frank grows now?

Yup (The Ant Man helmet). The helmet itself allows him to communicate with and control insects, but the writer has stated that he also has pym particles so he will be able to shrink and grow.

Yeah, I generally dislike Punisher as a character but this new series has been getting better and better with each issue

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
ohmygod

http://f.imagehost.org/view/0518/Punisher_4_022

How do you do spoliers? Like I said that guy wasnt KP dummie.

I knew you'd post some spoilers that's why I've avoided this thread till now

Yeah, I feel really stupid. Didn't think they had the guts to bring Chip back.

What is the shield made of BTW? What do you think? Can it be vibranium?

Originally posted by Kazenji
He's probably wearing something that he aquired from that guy in issue #2 that allows him to do it.

Nah man he didnt. Furthermore Red Hood stated those guys were genetically enhanced. To be fair he gained alot of wounds from that encounter.


Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Personally I don't think Frank needed an external speed boost. He was always incredibly fast when it comes to hand to hand combat and avoiding gunfire. I can be wrong, though. We'll see.

Well both Wolverine and Captain America have stated how fast he is but there are loads of Punisher examples were people pull guns on him and hes not fast enough to move. Considering those guys were enhanced its arguably the best speed feat hes ever had.

Bare in mind also it really is posible for Pun to increase his h2h capabilities. Hes a skilled practionner of ninjuitsu and a ninja grandmaster wanted to train Castle to reach his full potential but events occured where it never happened, the students of the grandmaster had enhanced senses. In the previous PWJ series Punisher stated that he had become slack so he may have decided to step up his training especially with Dark Reign going on.



Originally posted by willRules
Yeah, I generally dislike Punisher as a character

angrymob

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No more gangsters its all about super-villains now.

Well he did take out some of Norman's gangsters back in issue #2.

Originally posted by Kazenji
Well he did take out some of Norman's gangsters back in issue #2.

Well yeah thats right at the beginning before he was firmly into supervillain killing territory. However I think he will still kill some gangsters but its going to mainly be supervillains.

Who or what comics was that bear villain ment to be from in punisher #4 ?

Originally posted by Kazenji
Who or what comics was that bear villain ment to be from in punisher #4 ?

I havn't read the issue, but perhaps Ursa Major from the Soviet Super-Soldiers

Originally posted by -K-M-
I havn't read the issue, but perhaps Ursa Major from the Soviet Super-Soldiers

Nah, he doesnt sound Russian. I think that guy was there specifically for comic relief.

So wins punisher supposed to try to take on the Hood, cuz according to new avengers 52 Hood got an upgrade is now more powerful then Dr. Strange

Originally posted by jalek moye
So wins punisher supposed to try to take on the Hood, cuz according to new avengers 52 Hood got an upgrade is now more powerful then Dr. Strange

Next issue.

how good do you think he'll do

Originally posted by jalek moye
how good do you think he'll do

From what I gathered Punisher is really going to **** him up, and from then on the shits really going to hit the fan for Pun.

Red Hood is going to organise a superhuman hit squad to take him down called the Deadly Dozen and hes really going to concentrate on killing Pun.


http://www.marvel.com/catalog/?id=12084#

How exactly is he supposed to **** hood up? Unless he really stepped his game up in the equipment catergory i dont know how he could,I could see him really hurting his organization though.


Unless of course this takes place before the power upgrade dormmamu gave him

Originally posted by jalek moye
How exactly is he supposed to **** hood up? Unless he really stepped his game up in the equipment catergory i dont know how he could,I could see him really hurting his organization though.


Well he may not actually really **** up Hood personally, but apparently hes going to cost his organistion alot of money and this is going to really piss off Hood.

Originally posted by jalek moye

Unless of course this takes place before the power upgrade dormmamu gave him

It might do but im not sure. He currently is starting to use more gadgets and as the series progresses hes going to get more advanced stuff.

Originally posted by Kazenji
Who or what comics was that bear villain ment to be from in punisher #4 ?

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/2543/amazingspiderman1395603.jpg

haha lol.

punisher dident beat DP like that preview suggested

haha this just gets better and better.

http://comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=2603&disp=table

I like that page with Punisher wearing all the gear covered in blood.

haha "it's good, it's a good gun"

punisher is such a beast now

that scene was soooo sexy, i was aroused lol

Originally posted by Sin I AM
that scene was soooo sexy, i was aroused lol

drool

Originally posted by Kazenji
I like that page with Punisher wearing all the gear covered in blood.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
punisher dident beat DP like that preview suggested

Thats happened quite a few times.

Great, great issue. Fu(kin' awesome, even.

Frank Castle was offered the full resurrection of his wife and kids. He declined that.

Maria wouldn't like me making deals with devils on her account.

Punisher >>>>>>>>>>>>> Spider-****

Made a deal with friggin' Mephisto for curing his 200 years old aunt, unbelievable.

It was a great issue. My only complaint is that I would have liked to see Punisher use a wider variety of "super" weapons he has acquired. The Ant-man helmet with a skull on was a great touch, but he seemed obsessed with the noisy cricket gun (Men in Black reference). That was fun for about 30 seconds. I wanted to see different weapons used

But this is a minor complaint. Great issue.

Punisher #6 preview, They've gone with Tan Eng Huat for the art now

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=2827&disp=table

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Great, great issue. Fu(kin' awesome, even.

Hey Stilt I saw your post about that werebear in the X-force thread and heard what you said about Grizzly in that Punisher issue. I had an idea for an alternate ending where Grizzly manged to kill Henry.

Grizzly: Hey boss I did like you said and killed Henry.
The Hood: Well......did you eat him?
Grizzly: Ermmm......no?
The Hood: BANG! *shoots Grizzly in the head* Whatzamatter with you people huh? I gave simple instruction I said kill AND eat him, am I dealing with a bunch of retards here or something?! You there I want you to go back to that base...find that body...AND EAT IT!!!!!!!

laughcry

Man o man o man. This eries just keeps getting better.

I still prefer Jerome Opena's drawing of The Punisher more then Tang Eng Hauts.

Originally posted by Kazenji
I still prefer Jerome Opena's drawing of The Punisher more then Tang Eng Hauts.

I have reservations about both but neither of them are bad.

Originally posted by Kazenji
I still prefer Jerome Opena's drawing of The Punisher more then Tang Eng Hauts.

Yeah, me too...