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1. Sabers
2. Force
3. All out

As a darksider Ulic is vulnerable to Vaapad, yet his wookieepedia page implies that he's a reasonably accomplished swordsman.


Thoughts?

Interesting thread.

Sabers:
Here I would definately take Mace, his mastery of Vaapad would put him among the top 5 swordsman of all time. This is no knock on Ulic though as he did manage to stalemate Exar Kun.

Force:
Here is the tough one. On one hand we Mace Windu who was second only to Yoda in terms of the Force among Jedi. He was also powerful enough to single-handedly defeated an army of Super Battle Droids and a seismic tank with his bare fists. On the other hand you have Ulic Qel-Droma a man powerful enough to withstand The Dark Reaper and capable of challenging Exar Kun. I say a draw.

All Out:
Windu, His mastery of Vaapad and skill with a blade would be too much for Ulic to handle.

Windu barely makes the top 5 of his own era. Depa Billaba, by Mace's own admission, had surpassed him in bladework by Shatterpoint, Sora Bulq mastered Vaapad as well as every single fighting technique the Order taught, both classical and experimental, according to the databank, and Shadowhunter confirms both Anoon Bondara and Yoda to be his superiors in the department (the former is declared second to none in technical ability in the entire order, and the latter the most technically skilled on the Council). Ulic possessed an absolutely abnormal ability with the lightsaber (as substantiated by a feat which I absolutely refuse to continue bringing up), and on top of that, after gaining a Sith amulet, is seen by other dark siders to be literally "rippling" in dark side energies. And for the record, it was an injured Ulic Qel-Droma that stalemated Exar in a lightsaber fight, despite the latter's own exceptional ability with a lightsaber and his far superior command of the Force. Ulic takes this.

Sora Bulq did not master Vaapad; as Windu himself says "Vaapad mastered him. It is regarded as the deadliest and most demanding lightsaber form of them all, requiring that the user being a "high end master of multiple forms" (Fight Saber). This, coupled with his shatterpoint charism, gives him an incredible combat advantage that is difficult to replicate and counter; it enabled him to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in galactic history in single combat where three other celebrated swordsmen and Yoda himself did not. It gives him a remarkable advantage over Ulic and so he takes the lightsaber duel and quite possibly the all out fight.

EDIT

Originally posted by Gideon
the most powerful Sith Lord in galactic history

Prove it!

I want scans to verify the existence of the evidence you put up, and I want a literary analysis of whatever quote you bring up to prove that they undeniably fit your interpretation.

Too bad. I'm not dancing this particular dance again. You've seen the sources dozens of times and they are scattered across an even greater number of threads. And my interpretation is right because, well, I can understand context.

Anything contrary to the straightforward interpretation requires the burden of proof.

No. That it might appear "straightforward" to the less accomplished readers among us is not reason enough to declare it undeniable fact. The burden of proof always falls on the person who makes the claim. You made the claim: prove up.

Wrong. Palpatine is referred to as the most powerful Sith Lord bereft of military or political context.

Again, substantiate. Provide the quote and surrounding passage via a scan to verify its authenticity, and provide me a complete literary analysis of each and every single word and how they connect. Do it now, or stop referring to it as an undeniable fact.

It is an undeniable fact. Deal with it. I'm not dancing this dance with you anymore. When you drop your Ancient Sith apologist attitude and resurrecting crushed arguments from Janus, you can message me by proxy or the PM system. Until then, you are on ignore. I'm not interested in your obstinance.

LOL, I don't remember giving a sh1t about the Ancient Sith. And no, it is not, and if you're going to be lazy about it you're in no position to make such claims.

Calm down Luna. I tried the Ancient Sith avenue and failed.

I agree with TheEskimo statement. I am going to go with Mace on this one.

Originally posted by Darth Luna
after gaining a Sith amulet, is seen by other dark siders to be literally "rippling" in dark side energies.

This is the definition of unsubstantiated especially when measured against Mace Windu's demonstration on Dantooine in the Clone Wars.

Originally posted by Allankles
This is the definition of unsubstantiated especially when measured against Mace Windu's demonstration on Dantooine in the Clone Wars.

Ask him what it means to ripple with dark side energy. Haha. I love to use his patented Lackoflogic against him. How would it have any pertinent relevence to a duel with Windu?

Originally posted by Gideon
Ask him what it means to ripple with dark side energy. Haha. I love to use his patented Lackoflogic against him. How would it have any pertinent relevence to a duel with Windu?

He doesn't recognize his own double standards, asking you for proof when his arguments are based on pure conjecture.

He really does make me embarrassed that I vouch for his intellect. He's so dependent on misdirection and double standards; Qel Droma's "rippling with dark side energies" is a sign of immense power and yet all of Palpatine's feats are inconsequential? I think he's going to remain on ignore. A public ban on Nebaris would be great. Let him come under a new account. Mock him and patronize him. But do not speak to him.

I think it's hilarious how he thinks that Mace being 'barely in the top five' of his own era is a bad thing when you consider how pretty damn incredible that era was. Most people would consider Depa Billaba, Anoon Bondara, Yoda, Dooku and the like to be naturally pretty uber people and have no bearing on earlier or later eras' fighters and how they compare to Mace

Replace "pretty damn incredible" with "over exposed" and you'd be correct. Nothing indicates that the era was especially impressive in the grand scheme of things. And please don't mention Dooku in the same breath as those others. He's an absolute joke of a swordsman, a one form master who literally has nothing to his name.

@ AllAnal:

By bringing up the term "double standards," you're quite clearly committing a False Comparison Fallacy; Gideon responded to a post I had made, thereby initiating the debate, making a claim that clearly demands proof. As such, asking him to substantiate his claim is completely expected. My original post, on the other hand, detailed something that didn't demand proof, but elaboration. Asking him to prove up on his claim, when it demanded proof, does not make me a hypocrite for not elaborating on something I'd previously brought up myself; as I said, you drew up a comparison between two completely non parallel events, and as such committed the Fallacy of the False Comparison.

However, to elaborate on it seeing as you're so desperate for it: Aleema looks at both Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma through the eyes of the Force, and notes that they were both rippling in dark side energies. No distinction is drawn whatsoever, she isn't in awe of Exar Kun specifically, she's in awe of both of them, which would lead us to deduce that through her eyes, they were both roughly seen to be just as strong in the darkside as the other. Meaning, Ulic's arguably on par in power with someone who's displayed the ability to instantly freeze thousands of beings in place, drain the Force from an entire race, momentarily resist a wall of light attack from thousands of Jedi, among numerous other titanic feats.

As for Mace's feats on Dantooine, they're clearly not consistent with the movie's portrayal of the Jedi, in particular Yoda (the established most powerful jedi of the era) struggling with basic telekinesis (what appears to have been his speciality), and Mace Windu himself being relatively useless at Geonosis. In a situation that would demand all of his strength, he displays nothing of the effectiveness he does at Dantooine. The CW series clearly portrays an unrealistic view of the Jedi in question.

Nothing indicates this era was impressive. Except the constant displays of incredible swordsmanship. And, as has been proven, Dooku was proficient in each form, bu specialized fully in Makashi-I fail to see how specializing is a bad thing.

And oh, look at Nebaris's argument: "I don't like it and think it shouldn't count!"

Sorry, Nebby. It's canon. You're not.

Remember the public ban? Mock him; do not speak to him.

While Qel-Droma is an absurdly talented swordsman, Windu's Vaapad and shatterpoint will likely prove damning here. It'll be one hell of a fight, though.

Originally posted by Publius II
While Qel-Droma is an absurdly talented swordsman, Windu's Vaapad and shatterpoint will likely prove damning here. It'll be one hell of a fight, though.

Nebaris's argument was essentially that Qel-Droma makes pretty lights with his dark side energies and then made an equally vague contention that that somehow puts him on par with Exar Kun; both are irrelevant. I am woefully ignorant of Qel-Droma's feats. What has he done that would put him on par with a Jedi Master who is the creator of the deadliest lightsaber form and a high end master of multiple forms, as well as the beneficiary of an ability that gives him an even greater supernatural perception in combat?

I'm with Faunus here, honestly. Ulic was an absurdly talented duelist, able to stalemate Exar Kun, kill a monster of a man like Warb Null, is described as a master Swordsman by the narration and in his worst state, was at least able to save his life from a berserk Jedi.

Oh, and he took down Mandalore the Ultimate in one on one combat with the guy in a freaking Basilisk war droid and won. On territory Mandalore set up to favor himself with Ulic in every disadvantage.

I'm saying Mace will win, but it'll be a hell of a fight.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I'm with Faunus here, honestly. Ulic was an absurdly talented duelist, able to stalemate Exar Kun, kill a monster of a man like Warb Null, is described as a master Swordsman by the narration and in his worst state, was at least able to save his life from a berserk Jedi.

Oh, and he took down Mandalore the Ultimate in one on one combat with the guy in a freaking Basilisk war droid and won. On territory Mandalore set up to favor himself with Ulic in every disadvantage.

I'm saying Mace will win, but it'll be a hell of a fight.

Good statement Lightsnake!

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I'm with Faunus here, honestly. Ulic was an absurdly talented duelist, able to stalemate Exar Kun, kill a monster of a man like Warb Null, is described as a master Swordsman by the narration and in his worst state, was at least able to save his life from a berserk Jedi.

Oh, and he took down Mandalore the Ultimate in one on one combat with the guy in a freaking Basilisk war droid and won. On territory Mandalore set up to favor himself with Ulic in every disadvantage.

I'm saying Mace will win, but it'll be a hell of a fight.

Ulic is talented but his exploits by themselves don't really put him near enough Mace. And honestly I'd expect plenty of Jedi to deal with the likes of Mandalore and Warb Null. Also how skillful was Exar relative to people in the golden era? Can't really say.

And Basilisks in those Old Republic comics resembled large swoop bikes with relatively heavy armaments at the front (not as menacing as the ones in Kotor 2), I'm surprised Ulic didn't make lighter work of Mandalore there.

Originally posted by BOOG II
@ AllAnal:

By bringing up the term "double standards," you're quite clearly committing a False Comparison Fallacy; Gideon responded to a post I had made, thereby initiating the debate, making a claim that clearly demands proof. As such, asking him to substantiate his claim is completely expected. My original post, on the other hand, detailed something that didn't demand proof, but elaboration. Asking him to prove up on his claim, when it demanded proof, does not make me a hypocrite for not elaborating on something I'd previously brought up myself; as I said, you drew up a comparison between two completely non parallel events, and as such committed the Fallacy of the False Comparison.


False comparison or otherwise you used Aleema's description of Ulic's lightshow as support for your claim that Ulic>Mace. If you're asking for proof about the claims of Palpy's superiority above all other Sith the evidence is in the ROTS novelization. His description as an event horizon of darkside energy, even clouding the Jedi's perception in the force. The feats are in Dark Empire, his ability to much force attacks with the greatest of Jedi etc etc.

Further it's double standards because you're willing to accept insubstantial remarks by Aleema over the overwhelming evidence of feats and statements favoring - in this case - Palpy and by extension Mace.

If you can't accept the more substantial evidence why are you so quick to accept the less substantial evidence for Ulic? Double standards i.e. it's good evidence as long as it is in favor of your character, insubstantial if it favors any other character.