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Punisher gets 18 months of prep and basic information of his opponent.

Wait till next month, we get to his who his new sidekick is.

..................was that a serous responses........you really think punisher gunna get a superman level side kick.................even if he did which is rediculous..........it punisher by him self........

I think I'm going to hack the interwebs.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
..................was that a serous responses........you really think punisher gunna get a superman level side kick.................even if he did which is rediculous..........it punisher by him self........


Lol calm down Kris backed you up in the other thread and now you're getting a boost.

Its been stated that Punisher new sidekick is going be an expert at tech that will enable Punisher to hunt much more powerful opponents. That could possibly be herald level characters.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Lol calm down Kris backed you up in the other thread and now you're getting a boost.

Its been stated that Punisher new sidekick is going be an expert at tech that will enable Punisher to hunt much more powerful opponents. That could possibly be herald level characters.
I am completely calm.......I couldent be more calm I am laying down in the most confortable area in my houses.........kris dident back me up any were..............not even sure why that would matter.




...........yea so punisher gunna do something ironman can't.......

Spite. Give Punisher all the prep you want, he's nothing to Bizarro.

Originally posted by Battlehammer



...........yea so punisher gunna do something ironman can't.......

Iron Man has actually beaten Sentry and maybe Punisher can do better than Tony Stark can with better tech.

Dr Doom gave Punisher props and hes been shown to be better tactically than Cap, so sure its not beyond the realsm of possibility.

Originally posted by Galan007
Spite. Give Punisher all the prep you want, he's nothing to Bizarro.

I would say it depends on what tech he has and how much he knows about Biazzaro. Its not a forgone conclusion. The new tech hes getting could possibly give him the ability to take down people like Sentry. Now I dont think Sentry can beat Bizzaro for the majority but if he can beat Sentry its not a forgone conclusion.

Originally posted by Galan007
Spite. Give Punisher all the prep you want, he's nothing to Bizarro.

Is Bizzro more powerful than Superman?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Iron Man has actually beaten Sentry and maybe Punisher can do better than Tony Stark can with better tech.


.................yea that gunna happen.........






Really he beaten Sentry? Lets see evidences of this.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Is Bizzro more powerful than Superman?
.........you think Punisher with prep can beat superman?


and you think if people had the same problem as your self by allowing others to effect the characters they like negativly they would not hate punisher becauses of you

Originally posted by Battlehammer
.........you think Punisher with prep can beat superman?

It depends on what tech he has and what he knows about Superman. Serioulsy whats the problem here?

Originally posted by Battlehammer

and you think if people had the same problem as your self by allowing others to effect the characters they like negativly they would not hate punisher?

Theres no problem here. All im saying is it depends on what tech he has and what he knows about the character.....ok?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
It depends on what tech he has and what he knows about Superman. Serioulsy whats the problem here?



Theres no problem here. All im saying is it depends on what tech he has and what he knows about the character.....ok?

.......Ironman would be slaughter by superman, but you believe......punisher could beat him with prep.............what kinda tech is punisher gunna get that could allow him to beat a man who punches a planet and it blows up?


.......sounds like fanboyism to me.......

Originally posted by Battlehammer
.......Ironman would be slaughter by superman, but you believe......punisher could beat him with prep.............what kinda tech is punisher gunna get that could allow him to beat a man who punches a planet and it blows up?

What its impossible for Iron Man to beat Superman with prep? Well for starters Iron Man has built his own time machine and Superman has beatn beaten with that sort of attack.


Originally posted by Battlehammer

.......sounds like fanboyism to me.......

No it doesnt, You dont even know who his armourer is going to be im simply saying to you we dont know who he is and what hes capable of. Wait and see.

Heres Iron Man beating Sentry.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=8213146

No I ment iron him self no prep........even with prep....time machine would be his best chances only chances.



.........punisher not iron man..........he no were near as smart..........pleases this is assurd to think Punisher has any chances of beating superhuman......good lord.....it is fanboyish.

also jsut becuases he gets prep does not mean he can have his new side kick create him stuff.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
No I ment iron him self no prep........even with prep....time machine would be his best chances only chances.



.........punisher not iron man..........he no were near as smart..........pleases this is assurd to think Punisher has any chances of beating superhuman......good lord.....it is fanboyish.
now if it were wolverine vs bizzaro......

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Is Bizzro more powerful than Superman? All of his stats, sans intelligence, are on par with Superman.

Originally posted by carnage52
now if it were wolverine vs bizzaro......
Wolverine get stompped into the ground.


but why am I not surprize a comment like this comming from brainless twit like you.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
No I ment iron him self no prep........even with prep....time machine would be his best chances only chances.

Of course im talking about prep. Why the hell would I be talking about without prep when thats what this thread is about?


Originally posted by Battlehammer

.........punisher not iron man..........he no were near as smart..........pleases this is assurd to think Punisher has any chances of beating superhuman......good lord.....it is fanboyish.

No its fanboyish you're just pissed becuse people used to call you a fanboy and you want revenge.

Hes not as smart as Tony? Wait a sec didnt Punisher out smart Dr Doom, didnt a clone of Dr Doom (that has impressive feats of prep)actually want Punisher to assasinate Dr Doom? So what Superman > Dr Doom now?

Is Tony Starks smarter than Captain America now? He know more about tech but hes not tactically smarter. Punisher has outsmarted Cap and shown to be better tacticaly than Cap. Punisher cant build anything like Tony Starks can but it could be argued that hes tactically smarter and if he has the right tech and knowledge of character that he could beat Superman.

Heres a prediction though, all of what ive said is going to go over you head.

Originally posted by Bentley
Punisher gets 18 months of prep and basic information of his opponent.

basic information won't do crap. bizarro's only real weaknesses are concentrated sunlight and blue kryptonite. unless punisher can harness a hell of a lot of sunlight, he isn't doing shit to bizarro. and blue kryptonite? blue kryptonite is extremely rare, even in DC.

tempted to close for spite...

also: superman >>>>>>>>>>> anything stark can bring to the table.

did I just here you try and said Punisher intelectually is on or above Ironman..............did I really just here you argue this? really?.........im just gunna stop now and let you digg your own grave deeper.

Concentrated sunlight sounds like a exploitable weakness.

Originally posted by Raoul
basic information won't do crap. bizarro's only real weaknesses are concentrated sunlight and blue kryptonite. unless punisher can harness a hell of a lot of sunlight, he isn't doing shit to bizarro. and blue kryptonite? blue kryptonite is extremely rare, even in DC.

tempted to close for spite...

also: superman >>>>>>>>>>> anything stark can bring to the table.


All im saying is that if he has the right tech and the right knowledge he can beat him thats all.

Tony Stark has a time machine and he could used attacks based on that to beat Superman, Superman has been beaten by that sort of attack before.

FYI im not saying that either Tony or Punisher can get a majority im just saying I cant see why with the right tech and knowledge they couldnt get at leat 2/10



Originally posted by Galan007
All of his stats, sans intelligence, are on par with Superman.

So if Punisher had the right tech and enough knowledge of Bizarro why couldnt he beat him?

Originally posted by Bentley
Concentrated sunlight sounds like a exploitable weakness.

does punisher have a miniature sun launcher?

I don't know, the guy has used nukes, maybe he can device something to trick Bizarro into the sun or amplify sunlight if he has access to tech. I admit I'm not sure what's the most technological thing he has pulled off, but harnessing sunlight can be done without being Reed Richards.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
All im saying is that if he has the right tech and the right knowledge he can beat him thats all.

Tony Stark has a time machine and he could used attacks based on that to beat Superman, Superman has been beaten by that sort of attack before.

FYI im not saying that either Tony or Punisher can get a majority im just saying I cant see why with the right tech and knowledge they couldnt get at leat 2/10

lex luthor has at least as much money as stark, and is arguably smarter. he's still trying to beat superman, and he's had access to kryptonian battleships (which are far beyond dc earth tech), and warehouses full of kryptonite. he built metallo.

luthor barely gets 1/10.

it takes more than prep and tech to beat superman.

Originally posted by Bentley
I don't know, the guy has used nukes, maybe he can device something to trick Bizarro into the sun or amplify sunlight if he has access to tech. I admit I'm not sure what's the most technological thing he has pulled off, but harnessing sunlight can be done without being Reed Richards.

bizarro has gone in to the actual sun before, and been fine (when he retrieved the blackrock).

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Wolverine get stompped into the ground.


but why am I not surprize a comment like this comming from brainless twit like you.

Now if it were Wolverine vs Bizzaro w/o flying

Alf you do understand that with prep that does not mean he can have some one elses biuld him something it means he has to. If that was the cases any x-men memeber would be a beast with prep

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Now if it were Wolverine vs Bizzaro w/o flying
lol

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Now if it were Wolverine vs Bizzaro w/o flying

Originally posted by Battlehammer
did I just here you try and said Punisher intelectually is on or above Ironman..............did I really just here you argue this? really?.........im just gunna stop now and let you digg your own grave deeper.

Im not digging anything. It depends on what you mean. If you mean that Tony Starks can build better tech and is better at science then you are right.

If you mean Tony is tactically better than you cant prove that.




Originally posted by Raoul
does punisher have a miniature sun launcher?

Which is why I said at th begiining of this thread, lets wait till next month and see who Punisher new armourer is going to be. He maybe smart enough to pull it off.

Other posters are saying that its impossible regardless of what prep he has. IMO thats not a balanced point of view because you are making a final decision abpout something you dont know.

It has been specfically stated that Punishers new armourer is going to enable him to take down much more powerful opponents. This maybe herald level opponents but we simply dont know at this stage, but since Stu Clark has been able to get War Machine armour and has tech powerful enough to kill Rhino and this new guy is going to be better its not a forgone conclusion.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Im not digging anything. It depends on what you mean. If you mean that Tony Starks can build better tech and is better at science then you are right.

If you mean Tony is tactically better than you cant prove that.






Which is why I said at th begiining of this thread, lets wait till next month and see who Punisher new armourer is going to be. He maybe smart enough to pull it off.

Other posters are saying that its impossible regardless of what prep he has. IMO thats not a balanced point of view because you are making a final decision abpout something you dont know.

It has been specfically stated that Punishers new armourer is going to enable him to take down much more powerful opponents. This maybe herald level opponents but we simply dont know at this stage, but since Stu Clark has been able to get War Machine armour and has tech powerful enough to kill Rhino and this new guy is going to be better its not a forgone conclusion.

so we wait till next month, then.

all i'm going to say is this: better, smarter, richer, and infinitely more powerful men than the punisher have tried to take down the likes of superman and bizarro, and failed miserably.

Originally posted by Raoul
lex luthor has at least as much money as stark, and is arguably smarter. he's still trying to beat superman, and he's had access to kryptonian battleships (which are far beyond dc earth tech), and warehouses full of kryptonite. he built metallo.

luthor barely gets 1/10.

it takes more than prep and tech to beat superman.

and Punisher has outsmarted opponents smarter than Lex. In fact a clone of Doom wanted Punisher to kill Dr Doom. Which is why I think if he had the same tech as some of these genuises he may do better.



Originally posted by Battlehammer
Alf you do understand that with prep that does not mean he can have some one elses biuld him something it means he has to.

Actually yes but I forgot. However he does actually have acess to tech that his allies have for example in a prep thread Wolverine could actually use the Blackbird if he wanted to.


Originally posted by Battlehammer

If that was the cases any x-men memeber would be a beast with prep

No they wouldnt thats why when Punisher broke into Doom castle, Punisher wasnt killed because Doom knew that Punisher would do better with tech than other people would.

Punishers military training and smarts gives him an advantage people dont have



Originally posted by Raoul
so we wait till next month, then.

all i'm going to say is this: better, smarter, richer, and infinitely more powerful men than the punisher have tried to take down the likes of superman and bizarro, and failed miserably.

Dr Doom could beat Superman with prep and Punisher has outsmarted him. Its even possible for Tony Starks to beat Superman with prep but he would most likely lose. HE has also tried to kill Punisher hes defintely capable of beating Superman with prep. Which is why I think with the right tech Punisher could actually do better than some of those guys, bulding tech is Punishers weakness but he can outsmart the best.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
So if Punisher had the right tech and enough knowledge of Bizarro why couldnt he beat him? Because he lacks the means to acquire tech sufficient to harm Bizarro.

Originally posted by Galan007
Because he lacks the means to acquire tech sufficient to harm Bizarro.

LOL you dont even know who his armourer is going to be.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
LOL you dont even know who his armourer is going to be.

LOL you dont even know who his armourer is going to be.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
and Punisher has outsmarted opponents smarter than Lex. In fact a clone of Doom wanted Punisher to kill Dr Doom. Which is why I think if he had the same tech as some of these genuises he may do better.



doom has access to magic that punisher doesn't have.

it's ABC logic, and outsmarting someone like lex is entirely different to outsmarting someone like doom. lex was able to make himself president. he's a master manipulator, a technological and biochemical genius, and has used and manipulated kryptonian tech.

i would love to see punisher try and outsmart lex, or superman for that matter.

Originally posted by Galan007
Because he lacks the means to acquire tech sufficient to harm Bizarro.

bingo. unless his armourer is lex luthor, of course... biscuits

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
LOL you dont even know who his armourer is going to be.
he doesent need to who in the marvel universes has armor that could even trouble superman?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
he doesent need to who in the marvel universes has armor that could even trouble superman?

not iron man.

Originally posted by Raoul
doom has access to magic that punisher doesn't have.

Not sure how thats relevant. The point is Punisher outsmarted him


Originally posted by Raoul

it's ABC logic, and outsmarting someone like lex is entirely different to outsmarting someone like doom. lex was able to make himself president. he's a master manipulator, a technological and biochemical genius, and has used and manipulated kryptonian tech.

i would love to see punisher try and outsmart lex, or superman for that or superman for that matter



Now im not saying that Lex cant outsmart Punisher, but what reasosn do you give for Lex out smarting Punisher? Are you not going to tell me its because hes outsmarted Superman and other people?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
he doesent need to who in the marvel universes has armor that could even trouble superman?

Not armour, amourer ie weapons. Iron Man has weapons that are capable of beating Superman, but im not even arguing that Iron man can get a majority over Superman with prep im arguing he could get at least 2/10.

Luthor actually has the means to acquire various 'things' which help him get the better of Supes. That is simply not something Punisher can boast.

And if you ask me, Bizarro's weaknesses are even less exploitable than Superman's are.

really what happen does ironman have? pleases love to here the weapon he has the beats superman becuases ive never seen it.


oh and the weapon only as fst as the man pulling it......superman could literrally speed blizt punisher all day

Originally posted by Galan007
Luthor actually has the means to acquire various 'things' which help him get the better of Supes. That is simply not something Punisher can boast.

And if you ask me, Bizarro's weaknesses are even less exploitable than Superman's are.

Ok do you know who Punishers armourer is? Yiou dont think there are any people in the MU that could get access to stuff?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Not sure how thats relevant. The point is Punisher outsmarted him

to assume he could do the same to lex is ABC logic.



lex outsmarts EVERYONE. even batman.



what weapons?

Originally posted by Galan007
Luthor actually has the means to acquire various 'things' which help him get the better of Supes. That is simply not something Punisher can boast.

And if you ask me, Bizarro's weaknesses are even less exploitable than Superman's are.

no, you're right.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok do you know who Punishers armourer is? Yiou dont think there are any people in the MU that could get access to stuff?

not unless they somehow travel to dc earth and steal the shit from luthor.

Originally posted by Raoul
not iron man.
cosigned

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Iron Man has actually beaten Sentry and maybe Punisher can do better than Tony Stark can with better tech.

Dr Doom gave Punisher props and hes been shown to be better tactically than Cap, so sure its not beyond the realsm of possibility.



I would say it depends on what tech he has and how much he knows about Biazzaro. Its not a forgone conclusion. The new tech hes getting could possibly give him the ability to take down people like Sentry. Now I dont think Sentry can beat Bizzaro for the majority but if he can beat Sentry its not a forgone conclusion.
facepalm

ugh3

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/vghcb7.gif

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok do you know who Punishers armourer is? Moot point, really.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
really what happen does ironman have? pleases love to here the weapon he has the beats superman becuases ive never seen it.


oh and the weapon only as fst as the man pulling it......superman could literrally speed blizt punisher all day

I explained to you already and you agreed that was the only chance. If he can modify a time machine and use it as a weapon thats a possibility



Originally posted by Raoul
to assume he could do the same to lex is ABC logic.

Please answer the question. What reasons do you give that Lex will outsmart Punisher? Not im not arguing that Lex cant do this?


Originally posted by Raoul

lex outsmarts EVERYONE. even batman.

So does Dr Doom.




Originally posted by Raoul

not unless they somehow travel to dc earth and steal the shit from luthor.

What a time machine? Also other posters have argued that Silver Surfer could actually beat Superman by manipulating the electromagnetic spectrum and that he doesnt need to travl to the Dc to use it.

Originally posted by Galan007
Moot point, really.

LOL true, I defintely dont think hes capable of it now.

I got three words for you Alf

Punisher Not Batman

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I got three words for you Alf

Punisher Not Batman http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/ept_sports_nfl_experts-284743082-12.jpg

a time machine not a weapon.................and I said weapon........

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I got three words for you Alf

Punisher Not Batman

Dont know what you're point is there. You already agreed a time based attack could work.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Please answer the question. What reasons do you give that Lex will outsmart Punisher? Not im not arguing that Lex cant do this?

lex's track record. i said it earlier.



doom outsmarted batman recently?



surfer has a little thing called the POWER COSMIC.

unless frank becomes the next herald of galactus, i'd seriously recommend not bringing up surfer again.

it not an attack I agreed that if ironman went into the past and kileld superman as a baby that would work however he BFR him self.........so no.


also how does punisher one time out smartering dr doom make him the best taction ever now?

Originally posted by Badabing
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/ept_sports_nfl_experts-284743082-12.jpg

is that real lol

Originally posted by Battlehammer
a time machine not a weapon.................and I said weapon........

*sigh* I said Superman has been beaten by time based attacks. I said Tony Starks has built a time machine and therefore could possibly used time absed attacks. You agreed that was the only chance. Ok?



Originally posted by Raoul
lex's track record. i said it earlier.

That would include opponets hes outsmarted as well right?
iFit does you are using ABC logic. Dr Dooms track record is arguably better.

Originally posted by Raoul

doom outsmarted batman recently?

Lex outsmarted Doom recently? Im not sure if you get the point im making. You're using the exact same argument I am.



Originally posted by Raoul

surfer has a little thing called the POWER COSMIC.

unless frank becomes the next herald of galactus, i'd seriously recommend not bringing up surfer again.

LOL he doesnt need to become the next herald of galactus, people can use tech to manipluate the electromagnetic spectrum. I dont know why you're being sarcastic now and acting like you made a really great point.

Hasnt Doom used his tech to actually drain the power cosmic so why cant he build tech that replicate some of its power. You missed the point i was making. Yes surfer uses the power cosmic but manipulating the electrommagnetic spectrum in itself is not arcane and something limited to weilders of the power cosmic.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
it not an attack I agreed that if ironman went into the past and kileld superman as a baby that would work however he BFR him self.........so no.


Thats not even what im talking about. There was a character that could manipulate time and attacked Superman, it ****ed him up. Its possible since Iron Man can actually build a time machine if he modifies it he can do something similar.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

also how does punisher one time out smartering dr doom make him the best taction ever now?

better than who? Punisher has outsmarted:

Doom
High Evolutinray
Captain America numerous times.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
*sigh* I said Superman has been beaten by time based attacks. I said Tony Starks has built a time machine and therefore could possibly used time absed attacks. You agreed that was the only chance. Ok?





.
wont work. Superman way to fast

Originally posted by Battlehammer
wont work. Superman way to fast

LOL ok cant argue with that?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone


better than who? Punisher has outsmarted:

Doom
High Evolutinray
Captain America numerous times.
onces whoopy.


..........everyone has.


so has wolverine. also you have evidences of him doing it twices?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
That would include opponets hes outsmarted as well right?
iFit does you are using ABC logic. Dr Dooms track record is arguably better.

you are using ABC logic in assuming that just because punisher outsmarted doom (can you give an issue number or some scans please), that he can outsmart everyone doom is smarter than.



no i'm not. i never said lex would outsmart doom.



they can't manipulate it on the same level the silver surfer can. maybe reed richards or doom could build a machine, but outside those two, no.

you're not making a coherent point. you're over-reaching just to try and give frank a chance.

it's not up to any of us to prove frank can't do what you're claiming. it's up to you to show that he can.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
LOL ok cant argue with that?
no you can't how is iron to fire the weapon when superman moves hundreds of times the speed of ironmans thoughts?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
onces whoopy.


..........everyone has.


so has wolverine. also you have evidences of him doing it twices?

Actually he did. First he survived the assassination attempt and then after that Doom was trying to hunt him down but Punisher found Doom instead of Doom finding him.


I like how you ignored all the other points.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Actually he did. First he survived the assassination attempt and then after that Doom was trying to hunt him down but Punisher found Doom instead of Doom finding him.


I like how you ignored all the other points.

how the hell is that out smarting him? From what you described that in no way is him out smarting doom.



ignored what? the high evolutionare who made his name getting trick into taking all the mutants powers away or being tricked into giving others his powers ect. the guy not that hardest guy to out smart.



and I want to see evidences of capt being out msarted by punisher at least twices, becuases it sounds a little like bs.

Originally posted by Raoul
you are using ABC logic in assuming that just because punisher outsmarted doom (can you give an issue number or some scans please), that he can outsmart everyone doom is smarter than.




You're doing the samething. You're assuming that since Lex has beaten opponents smarter than Punisher that he can outsmart him. Theres nothing wrong with that I just dont like the double standards.

Issues are The Punisher issue 28-29


Originally posted by Raoul
no i'm not. i never said lex would outsmart doom.

You said he could outsmart Punisher and one of the reason is the people hes beaten. I am doing the same thing.


Originally posted by Raoul

they can't manipulate it on the same level the silver surfer can. maybe reed richards or doom could build a machine, but outside those two, no.


Exactly and Bp could possibly do it as well, especially since hes used tech to help him fight Mephisto.

Originally posted by Raoul

you're not making a coherent point. you're over-reaching just to try and give frank a chance.

it's not up to any of us to prove frank can't do what you're claiming. it's up to you to show that he can.


Im not over reaching anything. As I stated to you before you dont even know whio this guy is. Since theres a good chance Punisher will be taking on characters like Dr Doom and Sentry you cant assume that it cant be done.

Why are you also stating that its fact that outside of those two its only Dr Doom and Reed? Didnt BP create a device to fight Mephistio, Bp also doesnt just have time machine he has time machine(s).

As I stated earlier a time based attack is not out of the question.

Im not arguing that Punisher gets the majority im agruing that depending on what tech he is he could get at least 2/10, im not arguing for a majority or even slight. To then state im over reaching is going overboard. Its not a forgone conclusion that Punisher could get this tech, its not a forgone conclusion that he couldnt.

On another note, be it consciously or subconsciously, Superman usually holds back his full strength in most of his battles. Bizarro, on the other hand, doesn't impose that type of 'restriction' on himself:

http://s1d3.turboimagehost.com/t/1202883_biz1.jpg

So again, this is like Superman fighting to his max, versus Punisher (none)

Sorry, but any way you cut it, this is spite.

PZ, what are you talking about? This isn't your thread for wishful thinking and fanish dreams. Frank is not Reed, Bruce, Doom, Lex, etc. And prep mean he has access to tech or resources he normally doesn't use. I haven't seen you make one valid point or shown proof of Frank taking down a Bizarro level character with his own resources. All I've seen is your pie in the sky theories about how you think Frank maybe could if he was able to or that if Frank has out witted character X that he could beat character y.

It seems that every time you post in a Punisher thread you carry on spewing fanish fantasies while trying desperately to connect enough dots to somehow find a way for Frank to win. Show proof of Frank taking down a character on Bizarro's level or stop.

The fact that you had to ask about Bizarro's power level shows me that you're either very ignorant of the character or trolling. Either way it needs to end. Thanks

Originally posted by Battlehammer
how the hell is that out smarting him? From what you described that in no way is him out smarting doom.


ignored what? the high evolutionare who made his name getting trick into taking all the mutants powers away or being tricked into giving others his powers ect. the guy not that hardest guy to out smart.



and I want to see evidences of capt being out msarted by punisher at least twices, becuases it sounds a little like bs.

Look just forget it. I mean for starters you dont even udnerstand that surviving an asassination attempt and being able to hide from Doom so he can make his move isnt an example of outsmarting. Just forget it.

If you're going to be like that im not going to provide anything.

Originally posted by Badabing
PZ, what are you talking about? This isn't your thread for wishful thinking and fanish dreams. Frank is not Reed, Bruce, Doom, Lex, etc. And prep mean he has access to tech or resources he normally doesn't use. I haven't seen you make one valid point or shown proof of Frank taking down a Bizarro level character with his own resources. All I've seen is your pie in the sky theories about how you think Frank maybe could if he was able to or that if Frank has out witted character X that he could beat character y.

It seems that every time you post in a Punisher thread you carry on spewing fanish fantasies while trying desperately to connect enough dots to somehow find a way for Frank to win. Show proof of Frank taking down a character on Bizarro's level or stop.

The fact that you had to ask about Bizarro's power level shows me that you're either very ignorant of the character or trolling. Either way it needs to end. Thanks

For someone who hates Thor, you sure drop the hammer a lot

This is spite Punisher can't win even with 18 months.

OK babing if this is a joke its not funny.


Originally posted by Badabing
PZ, what are you talking about? This isn't your thread for wishful thinking and fanish dreams. Frank is not Reed, Bruce, Doom, Lex, etc. And prep mean he has access to tech or resources he normally doesn't use. I haven't seen you make one valid point or shown proof of Frank taking down a Bizarro level character with his own resources. All I've seen is your pie in the sky theories about how you think Frank maybe could if he was able to or that if Frank has out witted character X that he could beat character y.

It seems that every time you post in a Punisher thread you carry on spewing fanish fantasies while trying desperately to connect enough dots to somehow find a way for Frank to win. Show proof of Frank taking down a character on Bizarro's level or stop.

The fact that you had to ask about Bizarro's power level shows me that you're either very ignorant of the character or trolling. Either way it needs to end. Thanks


No no no im not saying hes Reed or Doom. Im simply saying you dont know who his armourer and its not a forgone conclusion that he cant get the tech to beat Superman or Bizarro Superman. It depends on what he knows and what he has, nowhere am i saying its a forgone conclusion that hes capable of doing this, but since we dont know who this guy is we cant assume that he cant be done. All im trying to do is point to the direction where under the right cirumstance and righttech that he could possibly beat him, nowhere am im arguing that its definite.

Just to add, I dont think just because Punsihers outsmarted Doom that he can outsmart Lex etc. I just think its wrong to think that its a forgone conclusion that he cant.


I am not amking the point you think I am.

Originally posted by iceman24567
This is spite Punisher can't win even with 18 months.

I dont think he can either. All im simply saying is if he had the right tech and knew enough he could beat him...that is all.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Look just forget it. I mean for starters you dont even udnerstand that surviving an asassination attempt and being able to hide from Doom so he can make his move isnt an example of outsmarting. Just forget it.

If you're going to be like that im not going to provide anything.
it not out smarting any one, if that was the cases wolverine would have out smarted every one. Hiding is stealth not out smarting.

out smarting some one is when you out think them, trick them. Hiding from soem one is not out smarting them.



be like what? some one who wants evdiences and doesent want to here your "I love Punisher cock crap".

oh I said it and you were all thinking it. lol

Originally posted by Battlehammer
it not out smarting any one, if that was the cases wolverine would have out smarted every one. Hiding is stealth not out smarting.

out smarting some one is when you out think them, trick them. Hiding from soem one is not out smarting them.


LOL so you dont think the fact that Doom was uign his brains to find Punisher and to kill him means anything?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I dont think he can either. All im simply saying is if he had the right tech and knew enough he could beat him...that is all.

Oh, so your VS thread is actually a poorly veiled statement saying "I THINK PUNISHER COULD TOTALLY BEAT BIZARRO SUPERMAN IF HE HAD THE TECHNOLOGY TO BEAT HIM"

That's great buddy.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I dont think he can either. All im simply saying is if he had the right tech and knew enough he could beat him...that is all. So could Aunt May. What's your point?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
LOL so you dont think the fact that Doom was uign his brains to find Punisher and to kill him means anything?
doesent mean he out smarted him. if that was the cases wolveirne has out smarted every single military power including shield on the planet amoung many super beings.

just means he stealthy and has resources.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
doesent mean he out smarted him. if that was the cases wolveirne has out smarted every single military power including shield on the planet amoung many super beings.

just means he stealthy and has resources.

I give up.


Originally posted by Galan007
So could Aunt May. What's your point?

Yes but Punisher has advantage that other people may not have. If it were just an issue of tech a clone of Dr Doom would not have tried to hire Punisher to kill the real Doom.

My point is that you simply dont know who the armourer is there are people within the MU who at least have a chance of beating Superman with tech and if Punisher gets acces to it I think he could possibly get 2/10.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Oh, so your VS thread is actually a poorly veiled statement saying "I THINK PUNISHER COULD TOTALLY BEAT BIZARRO SUPERMAN IF HE HAD THE TECHNOLOGY TO BEAT HIM"

That's great buddy.

I said this on page 1, theres no need for the flame.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

Theres no problem here. All im saying is it depends on what tech he has and what he knows about the character.....ok?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I give up.




He was able to stay hidden from doom.

so that means he out smarted doom?

how do you come to this conculsion?

all that means is he has good stealth, safe houses ect.


Wolverine stayed hidden from shield and only went on the grid when he wanted to be seen.

does that mean wolverine smarter then all of shield?


your logic is fualty.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yes but Punisher has advantage that other people may not have. If it were just an issue of tech a clone of Dr Doom would not have tried to hire Punisher to kill the real Doom.My point is that anyone (literally) can beat Supes/Biz with the "right knowledge and tech."

The thing is, there are a very slim few whom possess the resources/intelligence to actually do so. Plain and simple.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
My point is that you simply dont know who the armourer is there are people within the MU who at least have a chance of beating Superman with tech and if Punisher gets acces to it I think he could possibly get 2/10. I'll give you that, (so long as Punisher's armorer is either Doom, or Reed.)

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I give up.

That's a wise decision.

Originally posted by Galan007
My point is that anyone (literally) can beat Supes/Biz with the 'right knowledge and tech'

The thing is that there are a slim few characters with the resources to do so. Plain and simple.

True but its not a foregone conclusion that Tony and Black Panther couldnt as well.

As I stated to you Superman has been beaten by time based attacks. Both Iron Man and Black Panther have time machines so it not impossible for them to modify it. Now dont get mw wrong I never argued that its definite I am simply saying its unfair to rule out the possibility.

Originally posted by Galan007

If Punisher's armorer is either Doom, or Reed, I'll give you that.

Or Tony or Black Panther, but of course they stand even less of a chance.

wiser one still would be for him to go back an edit all his posts, inorder to hide the fact he a raging fanboy.......though everyone already new it so maybe not.

time base attacks........yea ecpt you know superman moves way faster then either thinks which means they never get to uses the weapon.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I said this on page 1, theres no need for the flame.

Who's flaming, I just "read between the lines"

Genius thread.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Who's flaming, I just "read between the lines"

Genius thread.
he may mean me, but to be honest I just stating the truth about him that everyone knows

Originally posted by Battlehammer
time base attacks........yea ecpt you know superman moves way faster then either thinks which means they never get to uses the weapon.

Actually theres an easy answer to that, but since you're just ranting im not going to bother responding to your posts.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Actually theres an easy answer to that, but since you're just ranting im not going to bother responding to your posts.
no there reall is no answer. They can't possiably fire the weapon before superman destroys it.


hypocrit to the end I see

Originally posted by Battlehammer
no there reall is no answer. They can't possiably fire the weapon before superman destroys it.


hypocrit to the end I see

Think about it. If you cant figure it out im not going to explain if for you.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Think about it. If you cant figure it out im not going to explain if for you.
there no way, also no he can't go into the fight with it activiated already.

so no there is no way.



oh and pleases you have no responses we all know that which is why you refuses to answer

Originally posted by Battlehammer
there no way, also no he can't go into the fight with it activiated already.

so no there is no way.

If you so. We done now?

yup, you have no responses as ussual and then you try and play it off as if you do, inorder in some sad attempt to retain your dignity which is long gone already.......

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
OK babing if this is a joke its not funny.





No no no im not saying hes Reed or Doom. Im simply saying you dont know who his armourer and its not a forgone conclusion that he cant get the tech to beat Superman or Bizarro Superman. It depends on what he knows and what he has, nowhere am i saying its a forgone conclusion that hes capable of doing this, but since we dont know who this guy is we cant assume that he cant be done. All im trying to do is point to the direction where under the right cirumstance and righttech that he could possibly beat him, nowhere am im arguing that its definite.

Just to add, I dont think just because Punsihers outsmarted Doom that he can outsmart Lex etc. I just think its wrong to think that its a forgone conclusion that he cant.


I am not amking the point you think I am.



I dont think he can either. All im simply saying is if he had the right tech and knew enough he could beat him...that is all. Sorry PZ, just busting your chops. I couldn't resist. biscuits

badawe

Originally posted by Badabing
Sorry PZ, just busting your chops. I couldn't resist. biscuits

badawe

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Okay, I'll stop.

Originally posted by Badabing
Okay, I'll stop.

angrymob

i'm curious... what is this "time based attack" you keep talking about?

So you close the other thread, but not this one?

Come on :/

Originally posted by Raoul
i'm curious... what is this "time based attack" you keep talking about?

Ive forgotten the characters name but he can manipulate time, black guy.

He was able to manipluate time in a certain way that he was able to own Superman.

Obvoulsy just because you have a time machine does not mean that you can defintely do what this guy did because he manipluated it a specfic way.

However since Tony Stark has actually built a time machine and Black Panther has as well ( not to sure about him but he has many), we cant rule out the possibility that both characters can find a way to use time machines offensively.

Remember im not stating its definite im questioning the fact that you think its a foregone conclusion that it cant be done. Also theres a very good chance that Punisher will be taking on people like Dr Doom so you can imagine the level of tech hes going to have.

some one having the power of time and some one building a time machine is not closes to the same thing..........

doesent really matter if you don't have the reflexes to uses the weapon before it broken

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Its been stated that Punisher new sidekick is going be an expert at tech that will enable Punisher to hunt much more powerful opponents. That could possibly be herald level characters.

That would seriously piss me off.

The Punisher having A FEW weapons in his inventory capable of hurting top-tiers I can accept. Having him carry around Herald-pwning rifles as standard-issue? No. F***ing. Way.

What makes the Punisher stand-out in Marvel is that he's more grounded to Earth than most. He lets the metas handle metas threatening the globe/universe/multiverse, while he looks out for the domestic/international threats, whether its street gangs and drug cartels, or foreign governments and maniacal dictators. In Marvel's shared universe, he's bound to team up or clash with a few of the metas, but to shift the focus of the character that drastically would not make sense-- metas didn't kill his family; it was the mob.

I read the first issue of The Punisher: Dark Reign arc, and I really liked it. The idea of Frank using a Shi'iar sniper rifle made me cringe a bit, but I can deal with it. Taking out Norman Osborne makes sense. I haven't even had too big a problem with Punisher War Journal with the exception of Chaykin's "art" and some of Stuart Clarke's PIS-fueled inventions. However, Castle is much more effective wiping out the mob than spending more time and effort trying to bring down guys like The Wrecker and The Absorbing Man, who probably don't even cause as much harm as normal criminals.

With that said, I can buy into the idea of some of Frank's weapons hurting top-tiers, but not to the point where it's enough to bring them down. Bizarro ftw.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
So you close the other thread, but not this one?

Come on :/

this one is next.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ive forgotten the characters name but he can manipulate time, black guy.

He was able to manipluate time in a certain way that he was able to own Superman.

Obvoulsy just because you have a time machine does not mean that you can defintely do what this guy did because he manipluated it a specfic way.

However since Tony Stark has actually built a time machine and Black Panther has as well ( not to sure about him but he has many), we cant rule out the possibility that both characters can find a way to use time machines offensively.

Remember im not stating its definite im questioning the fact that you think its a foregone conclusion that it cant be done. Also theres a very good chance that Punisher will be taking on people like Dr Doom so you can imagine the level of tech hes going to have.

manipulating time itself and travelling through time are very different, as you said. i don't see stark or panther having the nous to use it offensively... assuming you even could. time itself is not a weapon, unless you manipulate the person's ability to progress in time (slowing them down or speeding them up).

i'd really need to see the instance you're talking about...

Originally posted by Raoul
this one is next.

Damn well better be....

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
That would seriously piss me off.

The Punisher having A FEW weapons in his inventory capable of hurting top-tiers I can accept. Having him carry around Herald-pwning rifles as standard-issue? No. F***ing. Way.

I dont think its going to be standard but I suspect he will be able to get it if pushed.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

What makes the Punisher stand-out in Marvel is that he's more grounded to Earth than most. He lets the metas handle metas threatening the globe/universe/multiverse, while he looks out for the domestic/international threats, whether its street gangs and drug cartels, or foreign governments and maniacal dictators. In Marvel's shared universe, he's bound to team up or clash with a few of the metas, but to shift the focus of the character that drastically would not make sense--

I can understand why you said that but with all due respect I think you need to read more Punisher. Eventhough Punisher family was gunned down by the mob his missions often overlap with superheroes. He frequently finds himself running into superheroes and super-villains. Hell in his orginail series he encountered Wolverine, Daredevil, Ghost Rider, Dr Doom, High Evolutinary, Captain America, Tombstone (crossover with DD), The Reavers and more....

Hell even some of the 'thugs' that try to take down Punisher have superhuman powers. In one issue he had to fight a bullet-proof ninja and a guy who could use chi on objects to determine where his victims where.

Punisher encountering meta is not rare in fact it is common place. The only difference now is that he focusing primarly on metas.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

metas didn't kill his family; it was the mob.

You could make the same argument with DD. His father wasnt killed by metas why does he face them? At the end of the day Punisher wants to punish the guilty supervillains are just mobsters with powers.


Originally posted by Eternal Idol

I read the first issue of The Punisher: Dark Reign arc, and I really liked it. The idea of Frank using a Shi'iar sniper rifle made me cringe a bit, but I can deal with it.

Its a gun isnt it? Hell Punisher even used an exoskeleton to fight The Reavers and that was long before he met Stu. Punisher will use anything that works that he can operate. Punishers battlevan even had tentacles like Dr Ock.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

Taking out Norman Osborne makes sense. I haven't even had too big a problem with Punisher War Journal with the exception of Chaykin's "art" and some of Stuart Clarke's PIS-fueled inventions. However, Castle is much more effective wiping out the mob than spending more time and effort trying to bring down guys like The Wrecker and The Absorbing Man, who probably don't even cause as much harm as normal criminals.


What PIS fuelled inventions?

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Damn well better be....

you want me to leave it open?

Originally posted by Raoul


manipulating time itself and travelling through time are very different, as you said. i don't see stark or panther having the nous to use it offensively... assuming you even could. time itself is not a weapon, unless you manipulate the person's ability to progress in time (slowing them down or speeding them up).

Yes I understand that but like I said im not ruling out the possibility that since they built it they cant modify it.

Once you create something it leads onto the posibility that modifications can be made. Just the fact that that both BP and Tony Starks have used it to travel to different points in time leads to the possibility that could speed or slow down time.

Both Tony Starks and Bp were actually using time machines in order to attack each other bases.

Also bare in mind that BP has also used tech on Mephisto, he didnt use a time machine but I think it did utilise space (not sure abut time) but that sort of knowledge would be useful. BP isnt as smart as Doom or Reed but hes still very good

Originally posted by Raoul

i'd really need to see the instance you're talking about...


I think Galan would know I have pmed him but got no reply. But as I stated theres no guarantee that Tony or Bp could do the same. Im just throwing out the possibility that time could be manipulated offensively due to the fact that they can build time machines and we should consider their track record.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yes I understand that but like I said im not ruling out the possibility that since they built it they cant modify it.

Once you create something it leads onto the posibility that modifications can be made. Just the fact that that both BP and Tony Starks have used it to travel to different points in time leads to the possibility that could speed or slow down time.

Both Tony Starks and Bp were actually using time machines in order to attack each other bases.

Also bare in mind that BP has also used tech on Mephisto, he didnt use a time machine but I think it did utilise space (not sure abut time) but that sort of knowledge would be useful. BP isnt as smart as Doom or Reed but hes still very good




I think Galan would know I have pmed him but got no reply. But as I stated theres no guarantee that Tony or Bp could do the same. Im just throwing out the possibility that time could be manipulated offensively due to the fact that they can build time machines and we should consider their track record.

i'm just not seeming to get what you mean. using time as a weapon, do you mean devolving him? going back in time and killing him as a baby?

or do you mean pure, straight up blasts of temporal energy?

Originally posted by Raoul
you want me to leave it open?

I want you to be objective.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
I want you to be objective.

i am. wolverine and sabretooth aren't going to use prep against bizarro. it was a bait thread.

this one is less-so.

it will be closed, i'm just interested in hearing about this temporal attack.

Originally posted by Raoul
i'm just not seeming to get what you mean. using time as a weapon, do you mean devolving him? going back in time and killing him as a baby?

or do you mean pure, straight up blasts of temporal energy?

To be quite honest with you im not even sure myself. All I know is that this guy had some time manipluating powers and he ****ed up Superman, how he did I dont know. Im not a genuis at tech but im pretty sure if Bp and Tony Starks were pushed they could think of something.

Just off the top of my head being able to pause time and put Superman in stasis or using similar tech to put him in some never ending time loop could possibly work, but of course easier said than done.

hey if they could cut him they win..........I mean with only human speed he be unable to touch them and he is a moron.


however it deffiently was a bait thread.

Originally posted by Raoul
i am. wolverine and sabretooth aren't going to use prep against bizarro. it was a bait thread.

this one is less-so.

it will be closed, i'm just interested in hearing about this temporal attack.

Bait?

Please.

Originally posted by Galan007
My point is that anyone (literally) can beat Supes/Biz with the "right knowledge and tech."

The thing is, there are a very slim few whom possess the resources/intelligence to actually do so. Plain and simple.

I'll give you that, (so long as Punisher's armorer is either Doom, or Reed.)


KAAAAAANG!!!

Originally posted by Raoul
i am. wolverine and sabretooth aren't going to use prep against bizarro. it was a bait thread.

this one is less-so.

it will be closed, i'm just interested in hearing about this temporal attack.

For the life of my I cant remember the guys name.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
hey if they could cut him they win..........I mean with only human speed he be unable to touch them and he is a moron.


however it deffiently was a bait thread.

if he lifts up a skyscraper and throws it at them, they going to dodge that?

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Bait?

Please.

thank you?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
To be quite honest with you im not even sure myself. All I know is that this guy had some time manipluating powers and he ****ed up Superman, how he did I dont know. Im not a genuis at tech but im pretty sure if Bp and Tony Starks were pushed they could think of something.

Just off the top of my head being able to pause time and put Superman in stasis or using similar tech to put him in some never ending time loop could possibly work, but of course easier said than done.

mhmm

so alf your entire arguement is based off not only a one time feat........which in it self would make it rather bad evidences......but you don't even know the issue number or what truelly conspired in the issue..........right.........now.......do.......you.......still.......try.......and........say.....your......not.......reaching?

Originally posted by Raoul
if he lifts up a skyscraper and throws it at them, they going to dodge that?



thank you?



mhmm
well he rather stupid they likly trick him into dropping it on him self lol.


but were he gunna get a sky scraper in a featureless enviorment?

i'm going to close this for now. PZ, if you think of the name or the issue number, i might be tempted to re-open, but for now, i don't see a reason to keep it open, as it will only turn sour.

Ok, i just checked.

It's a comic book called JLA/Planetary: Terra Occulta. credit to Bentley and PZ for clueing me in.

The instance seems to be a localised time field that increases or decreases the passing of time to an insane level.

Also, its an elseworlds, tale, so technically, its not canon, not is it Superman as we know him.