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take a guess. lol

GT may not be canon, but SSJ4 Vegito doesn't even exist

True, but if he did, SSJ4 Vegito would beat the crap out of that 10 to 30 mintue fusion.

Well anyone who Knows DBZ would know that ssj4 gogeta would win.For one ssj4 gogeta is ten times stronger than ss2 vegito and ssj4 vegito is still weeker that goget ssj4, plus in that 30 min ssj4 gogeta would end it in 15 min! It would be fun tho!

True, but if he did, SSJ4 Vegito would beat the crap out of that 10 to 30 mintue fusion.

True...

I'd still wait 'til the Budokai Tenkaichi games are forced to resort to "what-if" characters in order to increase the character roster before putting an otherwise hypothetical character in a debate on thse forums.

But as far as "hypothetical" speaking is concerned, anytime Vegito and Gogeta were ever to be in the same form, Vegito would be more powerful by default.

Originally posted by shane8874
Well anyone who Knows DBZ would know that ssj4 gogeta would win.For one ssj4 gogeta is ten times stronger than ss2 vegito and ssj4 vegito is still weeker that goget ssj4, plus in that 30 min ssj4 gogeta would end it in 15 min! It would be fun tho!

Read my above sentence. Characters that use the Potara earrings will always be more powerful than they would be if the fused with the Fusion Dance.

I understand that, but ssj4 vegito still would lose. the time difference between shenron and buu in a good amount of time witch means goku and vegeta also would have increased their powers greatly. with would still put them ahead by a nice margen.

I am of course talking about ssj4 gogeta

vegeto stomp...Potara Earring > Fusion Dance...that's a fact..

Originally posted by shane8874
I understand that, but ssj4 vegito still would lose. the time difference between shenron and buu in a good amount of time witch means goku and vegeta also would have increased their powers greatly. with would still put them ahead by a nice margen.

I am of course talking about ssj4 gogeta

First off, speak with a little more sense. Secondly, don't try convoluting the logic of the fusions with whatever it is you're trying to say; what I'm saying is this: if at anytime Goku and Vegeta fused with the Potara earrings while they had access to SSJ4, Vegito too, would have access to the form. Now, because the Potara fusion creates a more powerful result, that would make a SSJ4 Vegito more powerful than SSJ4 Gogeta. Where the fusion dance adds their EQUALIZED powers, the potara fusion combines and multiplies their FULL powers, and is multiplied further with each transformation.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
vegeto stomp...Potara Earring > Fusion Dance...that's a fact..
Well the anime is non-canon, so no it's not a fact.

In the viz-manga translation, it's only stated that potara is a more efficient way of fusing. It said nothing about the results, but if Toriyama did it, I doubt he would change the name for the characters, and doubtfully alter their appearance or power.

Meaning that Toriyama would probably name the fusion (dance) of Goku and Vegeta to "Vegeto" have him wear the same cloths, have the same appearance and be equally as powerful--but then again, that's just speculation.

Originally posted by First_Tsurugi06
Where the fusion dance adds their EQUALIZED powers, the potara fusion combines and multiplies their FULL powers, and is multiplied further with each transformation.
I'm going to quote you on this one.

Originally posted by First_Tsurugi06
First off, speak with a little more sense. Secondly, don't try convoluting the logic of the fusions with whatever it is you're trying to say

The Fusion Dance requires the two users to be at an equal level of power. In the case with Goku and Vegeta, this means that Goku would have to power down before being able to fuse effectively, and even then they'd hae to be in perfect sync. The only reason they didn't have to in the case of SSJ4 Gogeta is because they were already both SSJ4s and thus equal in power.

The Potara Fusion is more effective because it doesn't require any kind of equalizing of the users' powers; it combines every ounce of power they have and multiplies it (when Vegito went SSJ1, it was multiplied several fold--he was already ore powerful than a SSJ1 Gogeta at this point). That, and the mutual rivalry between Goku and Vegeta was said to have made the fusion even more complete, making Vegito that much more powerful. There's no implication of the Fusion dance doing anything more than adding two equal powers together. Not needing to perform any kind of dance in perfect sync is just gravy on why the Potara Fusion > Fusion Dance.

Vegito - potara fusion is canonically stronger than regular fusion and doesn't have a time limit

Of course considering SSJ4 Gogeta is non-canon and SSJ4 Vegeto doesn't even exist, the point is really academic

Originally posted by Astner
Well the anime is non-canon, so no it's not a fact.

In the viz-manga translation, it's only stated that potara is a more efficient way of fusing. It said nothing about the results, but if Toriyama did it, I doubt he would change the name for the characters, and doubtfully alter their appearance or power.

Meaning that Toriyama would probably name the fusion (dance) of Goku and Vegeta to "Vegeto" have him wear the same cloths, have the same appearance and be equally as powerful--but then again, that's just speculation.


err...what are u talking about..it was state in the manga..by that old kaio shin..so..it is a fact..

Originally posted by First_Tsurugi06
The Fusion Dance requires the two users to be at an equal level of power. In the case with Goku and Vegeta, this means that Goku would have to power down before being able to fuse effectively, and even then they'd hae to be in perfect sync. The only reason they didn't have to in the case of SSJ4 Gogeta is because they were already both SSJ4s and thus equal in power.
I don't see why you bring your ideas to the table.

Piccolo thought that they had to fuse as Ssj, but they proved in the RoTaS that they could power-up after the fusion.
--So I don't see how your suggested idea even makes sense.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
err...what are u talking about..it was state in the manga..by that old kaio shin..so..it is a fact..
The Japanese and viz didn't. And bad translations aren't canon.

Kaioshin said that it was an easier/better way to fuse, he didn't say anything about the results. (Buu would never give Gohan and Goku a chance to preform the dance)

The only reason Vegeto would win is because he would outlast Gogeta, that's if they're equal in power. Goku as an adult in DBGT was apparently more powerful than as Ssj3 Goku from DBZ.

Originally posted by Astner
I don't see why you bring your ideas to the table.

Piccolo thought that they had to fuse as Ssj, but they proved in the RoTaS that they could power-up after the fusion.
--So I don't see how your suggested idea even makes sense.


The Japanese and viz didn't. And bad translations aren't canon.

Kaioshin said that it was an easier/better way to fuse, he didn't say anything about the results. (Buu would never give Gohan and Goku a chance to preform the dance)

The only reason Vegeto would win is because he would outlast Gogeta, that's if they're equal in power. Goku as an adult in DBGT was apparently more powerful than as Ssj3 Goku from DBZ.

Uh Potara is better because it combines both fighter's power no matter the difference. In the dance their levels must be nearly even, hence why Trunks had to lower his to do so when Goku instructed. For example lets say Goku is a 10 and Vegeta is a 5.

Potara=15

Dance=12 assuming that it wouldn't be a stretch if he didn't come down equal his exact same level.

Also Vegito could power up as well hence why he went super saiyan.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
In the dance their levels must be nearly even, hence why Trunks had to lower his to do so when Goku instructed.
Did you even read the reply you quoted? After they fused they could power-up, meaning that they could after have adjusted their powers before the fusion, and powered-up afterwards.

Furthermore, nowhere in the manga is your idea even brought up. You don't apply your own ideas and regard them as canon material ...

Again, there was no confirmation in the viz-manga that the Potara gave better results. So there is no point in assuming that it did.

Originally posted by Astner
Did you even read the reply you quoted? After they fused they could power-up, meaning that they could after have adjusted their powers before the fusion, and powered-up afterwards.

Furthermore, nowhere in the manga is your idea even brought up. You don't apply your own ideas and regard them as canon material ...

Again, there was no confirmation in the viz-manga that the Potara gave better results. So there is no point in assuming that it did.

Vegito can power up as well and I'm going off of what I heard from Goku's mouth. I think everyone here is debating the anime not the manga. Did GT even have a manga and if so did Gogeta even appear in them?

I don't know about that one, but I believe it did. O and Astner is right I don't understand why you people keep saying that the Potara is x amount times stronger? Where is this info from, or like Astner said is it just speculations.

All we know is that it's supposed to be better and it has no time limit

Even if they were equal Gogeta would eventually defuse and then lose

I believe it was the elder kai correct me if I'm wrong that stated the ring fusion is stronger. Technically since SS4 vegito doesn't exist in an continuity, we don't know what he's capable of. It would logically make sense that Vegito is stronger but we're all just making dumb guesses.

Originally posted by Astner
I don't see why you bring your ideas to the table.

Piccolo thought that they had to fuse as Ssj, but they proved in the RoTaS that they could power-up after the fusion.
--So I don't see how your suggested idea even makes sense.

That's not what I'm getting at. Even when the fused for the first time, Piccolo told Trunks to keep his power a little lower to match Goten's, and they were both in base form (granted, it still failed because Trunks screwed up with the movement). No matter what the form the characters are in, they have to be equal in power for the result to be successful in the first place. Once they fuse correctly, then yeah, they could power up to whatever form. But as I said before, more power is put into the Potara Fusion because they don't need to equalize their powers, it already has their full powers combined at the start, and the SSJ transformation makes Vegito that much more powerful (to be percise, a SSJ1 transformation supopsedley multiplies a Saiyan's base power by 50).



Neither is GT or DBZ Movie 12--the only times where Gogeta ever appeared. That's besides the point though.

Originally posted by shane8874
Well anyone who Knows DBZ would know that ssj4 gogeta would win.For one ssj4 gogeta is ten times stronger than ss2 vegito and ssj4 vegito is still weeker that goget ssj4, plus in that 30 min ssj4 gogeta would end it in 15 min! It would be fun tho!

Well actually for anyone who knows dbz they will know tht the potora fusion is stronger than the metamoran fusion

Originally posted by SSJ2Vegeta
Well actually for anyone who knows dbz they will know tht the potora fusion is stronger than the metamoran fusion

This guy knows his DBZ.

Originally posted by First_Tsurugi06
GT may not be canon, but SSJ4 Vegito doesn't even exist



this is if ssj4 vegito was real
so answer whos stronger
ssj4 vegito for me

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
This guy knows his DBZ.

haha it is true though...

Vegito wins the end

Originally posted by Quincy
Vegito wins the end

This guy also knows his DBZ.

i meant Metamoresean

oops messed up there i dont know how to spell metamoran

vegito doesnt need ssj4 to beat gogeta,all he needs is ssj1 well not even that

Vegito wins the fight but has to live with chi chi and Bulma for the rest of his life.

ok first i want 2 state the fact that old kai only said that the potara fusion was better he never said y it could have been just becuz of the unlimited time so lets say theyre even also ppl r saying o well 1 know big bang kamehameha ppl they both they r exactly the same 2 mind put in 1 they both know bigbang/final kamehameha but vegito wins becuz of unlimited time n they r both very kocky so that would waste alot of time

Originally posted by shane8874
Well anyone who Knows DBZ would know that ssj4 gogeta would win.For one ssj4 gogeta is ten times stronger than ss2 vegito and ssj4 vegito is still weeker that goget ssj4, plus in that 30 min ssj4 gogeta would end it in 15 min! It would be fun tho! Are you stupid or what, everyone knows that potara fusion is far stronger than the normal fusion. Super saiyan 4 Gogeta wouldn't stand a chance against super saiyan 4 vegito, it should be obvious who would win. If you're going to take part in a thread make sure you know what your talking about.

Actually the two fusions are not far off depending on the subjects.

The only thing that makes the Rings superior to the Dance, besides the time, is that the stronger person doesn't need to lower their power.

If Goku is a 10 and Vegeta is an 9, Gogeta would be a 81 where Vegito would be 90.

If both are equal then the Ring and Dance fusion would be equal in strength. And iirc Goku and Vegeta were equals in the final battle.

Tied in a fight, Vegito winning via timeout.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Actually the two fusions are not far off depending on the subjects.

The only thing that makes the Rings superior to the Dance, besides the time, is that the stronger person doesn't need to lower their power.

If Goku is a 10 and Vegeta is an 9, Gogeta would be a 81 where Vegito would be 90.

If both are equal then the Ring and Dance fusion would be equal in strength. And iirc Goku and Vegeta were equals in the final battle.

Tied in a fight, Vegito winning via timeout. Oh come on you heard the old kai say that his potara fusion is much stronger than the metamorian fusion, do you really think that super saiyan gogeta is that much stronger than super saiyan 3 gotenks that he can suddenly equal super vegito and treat super gohan buu like nothing like vegito did.

Cba to get the scan, but as I recall he never said anything about it being stronger, just better. Without him stating its a stronger form that 'better' would only attest to the time issue the Dance has.

For the latter part of your post: Did you just suggest that Gogeta, who is made of a the powerful Goku and Vegeta, would be weaker than Gotenks who is made of the low-leveled Goten and Trunks?

Originally posted by BloodRain
Cba to get the scan, but as I recall he never said anything about it being stronger, just better. Without him stating its a stronger form that 'better' would only attest to the time issue the Dance has.

For the latter part of your post: Did you just suggest that Gogeta, who is made of a the powerful Goku and Vegeta, would be weaker than Gotenks who is made of the low-leveled Goten and Trunks? No of course not, super saiyan gogeta is far stronger than super saiyan gotenks, I am talking about the difference between super saiyan 3 gotenks and super saiyan 1 gogeta. You have got to admit that despite the significant difference between gogeta and gotenks being two super saiyan transformations higher than gogeta will make them a bit stronger.

SS1 Gotenks = SS3 Goku

SS1 Goten & Trunks < Android 18

If people of their level fused together can equal SS3 Goku in their SS1 form, then someone at Vegeta's strength fused would be well above SS3 Gotenks in their first form.


However a Buu saga Gogeta would /not/ be equal to Vegito from the same saga. This is because Gogeta would be made from SS2 Vegeta and SS2 Goku, while Vegito would be made from SS2 Vegeta and /SS3 Goku/.

This is a GT situation where the characters used are Goku and Vegeta in the final saga where their SS4 states are equal. Both Ring and Dance fusions from the two at equal strength would end up being equal in power.

Originally posted by BloodRain
SS1 Gotenks = SS3 Goku

SS1 Goten & Trunks < Android 18

If people of their level fused together can equal SS3 Goku in their SS1 form, then someone at Vegeta's strength fused would be well above SS3 Gotenks in their first form.


However a Buu saga Gogeta would /not/ be equal to Vegito from the same saga. This is because Gogeta would be made from SS2 Vegeta and SS2 Goku, while Vegito would be made from SS2 Vegeta and /SS3 Goku/.

This is a GT situation where the characters used are Goku and Vegeta in the final saga where their SS4 states are equal. Both Ring and Dance fusions from the two at equal strength would end up being equal in power. You're forgetting something, for it to work the way you say then goku and vegeta would have to be transformed for the ring fusion to be stronger than the normal fusion but they were not, because they would be stuck in the super saiyan state unable to power down shortening their life span. Its not their potential to transform that makes the potara fusion stronger, its the power of the earrings that fuses them that makes vegito so much stronger than gogeta, the power that goes into the potara fusion is alot stronger than the power that goes into the normal fusion. Watch the episode that old kai gives goku the earrings on watch-dragonball.com and you will see for yourself.

I'm not sure what the first part of that has anything to do with what I posted or how that can't be countered with them powering up /after/ fusing.

"It's even better than Fusion!" Thats all he says on the matter. 'Better'. Having no time limit, no dance prep and not requiring the stronger of the pair to lower their strength makes it 'better'. Its only stated that the Rings are close to multiplying the individuals powers, nothing said for the Dance. But merely glancing at Gotenks its clear that the Dance must multiply as well.

(Base Gotenks is 8x Base Goku. If the fusion dance is addition the boys would be 4x Goku's power, this isnt true. If multiplication Goten would be slightly weaker than Goku with Trunks at his strength. Thats also not true as they're below 18 and Piccolo, in fact it could be argued from this that the increase from the Dance is above the multiplication stated for the Rings. But it wouldnt make sense that its above it. So leaving it as equal to the Rings is the only thing that makes sense.)

Sorry to end this little discussion but if you would actually think about the difference between potara earring fusion and the fusion dance technique, you would realize that with potara they may fuse regardless of power level difference, (for example SS4 Goku could fuse with krillin) where as the fusion dance their power levels must be identical so if were talking about buu saga goku could only fuse with vegeta as a ss2 meaning gogeta could then only become a ss2 much like the movie fusion reborn. we see gogeta as a super saiyan yet not a ss3 even though goku could become ss3, where as if they had the potara earrings and became vegito they would be immensely more powerfull because goku could unlock the power of ss3 without actually becoming one. now look at ss4 gogeta, their powers must be identical meaning goku could not use his full strength even though he was still more powerfull than vegeta, and if they used potara fusion is everlasting and limitless in terms of their individual power.

You didn't "end" the discussion. BloodRain already ended it months ago. You're just parroting him.

Originally posted by VegetSS4
Sorry to end this little discussion but if you would actually think about the difference between potara earring fusion and the fusion dance technique, you would realize that with potara they may fuse regardless of power level difference, (for example SS4 Goku could fuse with krillin) where as the fusion dance their power levels must be identical so if were talking about buu saga goku could only fuse with vegeta as a ss2 meaning gogeta could then only become a ss2 much like the movie fusion reborn. we see gogeta as a super saiyan yet not a ss3 even though goku could become ss3, where as if they had the potara earrings and became vegito they would be immensely more powerfull because goku could unlock the power of ss3 without actually becoming one. now look at ss4 gogeta, their powers must be identical meaning goku could not use his full strength even though he was still more powerfull than vegeta, and if they used potara fusion is everlasting and limitless in terms of their individual power.

So who are you saying is more powerful?

IMO lets talk a bit about SSj3
SSJ3 kid goku is no where the power of SSJ 3 adult Goku, so SSJ3 in GT really gets screwed over. SS4 is cool and all but SSJ3 Buu saga and some of the money is way cooler.

SS4
In the end Vegito will win because the fusion lasts longer.

Since we never see SS4 Gogeta its hard to tell who would be stronger. SS4 Vegito had the power to thrash Omega with all DB absorbed with not problem.

The best way to tell would be to see what power lvl of Janemba was vs. SS Gogeta in the movie, then figure out what omega shenron is and then we could have a clear winner.

Uhh no. It's been stated by the Kais that Potara >>>> dance. Also the potara gives a power boost for rivals which is not stated for the dance.

If you want to do a SSJ3 vs a SSJ4 fight then this would be the way to go...

Originally posted by Based
Uhh no. It's been stated by the Kais that Potara >>>> dance. Also the potara gives a power boost for rivals which is not stated for the dance.

If you want to do a SSJ3 vs a SSJ4 fight then this would be the way to go...

Yea thats what I made that SS3 Goku vs. SS4 Vegita, plus the Gogeta vs Vegito fight could never happen.

Originally posted by Based
Uhh no. It's been stated by the Kais that Potara >>>> dance. Also the potara gives a power boost for rivals which is not stated for the dance.

I'd rely on that more than the online scans since those are pretty ass

Anyway, the statement about the Potara's effect being greater (IE the resulting fused being) kind of says the Potara is just stronger

Basically Vegeto wins

Its a stalemate on power but fusion with portal earrings lasts indefinite ultimately favoring Vegeto.

No, it's pretty clear the Old Kai is just talking about pure strength, otherwise he'd have mentioned that as the reason at that moment, instead of later on when Goku asks:

Originally posted by Crimson Dragoon
No, it's pretty clear the Old Kai is just talking about pure strength, otherwise he'd have mentioned that as the reason at that moment, instead of later on when Goku asks:

Good point, its too bad we never got to see a SS4 Gogeta though cause I really like SS4 Vegeto. I really didnt like Gogeta cause he was too full of pride and didn't kill Omega when he had the chance.

Actually, the Fusion Dance merely ADDS up the power of two individuals with the SAME POWER LEVELS.

The Potara Earrings MULTIPLIES the power levels of characters, so essentially it is a stronger form of the Fusion Dance.


Fusion Dance = "100 + 100" or "15 + 10"

Potara Earrings = "100 x 100" or "15 x 10"

i think someone said the earrings are stronger then fusion dance...

There is no canonical formula for either fusion. The only thing given si that potara is stronger.

Also the potara earrings give a boost if the two users are rivals which cannot be said for the dance. Therefore this thread should've ended a tone post with the victor going to Vegito.