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In your opinion, who are the 5 most powerful jedi and sith lords of all time? Here's mine...

JEDI
1) Luke Skywalker/Yoda
2) Mace Windu
3) Revan
4) Anakin Skywalker
5) Obi-Wan Kenobi


SITH LORDS
1) Darth Sidious
2) Darth Revan
3) Darth Bane
4) Exar Kun
5) Marka Ragnos

Oddly accurate, save for:

Revan and Ragnos--unknowns.

And I don't think Kenobi would be there. Kyp maybe.

And Caedus would be in the Sith.

And this is the wrong forum.

I believe Kyp Durron should be top 5 Jedi for force power.

Ranking the Jedi and Sith in terms of power is an impossibly difficult task, even if you subscribed to a comprehensive analysis of canon. There are certain placements, however: Darth Sidious has displayed a far greater command of and strength in the dark side of the Force than any other Sith Lord in history; his status as the most powerful Lord of the Sith is documented by numerous sources. The RotS novelization regards Yoda as "the most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known" -- making it quite clear that, as of the prequel trilogy, he is more powerful than any Jedi before him.

You have individuals such as Luke Skywalker, who has, at various times, demonstrating a command of the Force on par with or surpassing Yoda or Sidious, yet aren't given any accolades by proper sources. Jacen Solo is someone who hasn't truly demonstrated a great destructive or offensive power, but has been cited by various sources as "second only to Luke" in terms of strength in the new Jedi Order (putting him above Force titan Kyp Durron), wielding power that has "even surpassed his grandfather, Darth Vader" (a Sith Lord whose potency was 80% of Palpatine's own), and "the most powerful of the Sith Lords."

The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia credits Exar Kun and Darth Plagueis as being two of "the most powerful" Sith Lords in history, despite -- in the case of the latter -- having no feats to his name. Marka Ragnos is another highly regarded and feared Sith Lord despite nothing to gauge his powers on. Other than that he was the most powerful of the ancient Sith.

Individuals like Count Dooku seem to possess a greater refined skill than any true raw strength; Yoda cited him as the Temple's greatest and most learned student and the RotS novelization regards him as "one of the most powerful Jedi in the Order's 25 thousand year history" and "an even greater Lord of the Sith," suggesting an incredibly high placement. Darth Vader seems to possess great telekinetic skill and incredible raw strength, being 80% of Sidious in terms of power and possessing a greater command of the Force than Kar Vastor (who is regarded as being on par with Yoda and Anakin; Emperor's Hand Cronal regarded Vastor's connection to the Force as "astonishingly powerful".

In short, it's really hard. What is certain is pretty much only that Sidious is the most powerful Sith ever.

Will "jedi" Galen Marek make it on the list?

Nihilus is also another sith that probably is on the list, in a related note I replayed part of kotor 2 last week and I saw an interesting loading scene quote that may have reference to Nihilus pulling the fleet of interdictors from Malachor. I'll post it as soon as I can find it.

Will "jedi" Galen Marek make it on the list?

Edit:

The quote is: "The sith fleet attacking Telos appears to be composed of many damage warships...the wreckage of a great battle .

The quote by itself doesn't make it true imo but it certaintly supports Tobin's claim.

How can something be impossibly difficult Escape? It's either impossible or it's difficult. And I need to get that Encyclopedia regarding Kun and Plagueis.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
How can something be impossibly difficult Escape? It's either impossible or it's difficult. And I need to get that Encyclopedia regarding Kun and Plagueis.

It's an expression. I think I got it from Revan, SW's greatest ladies man.

And I can't send you the Encyclopedia. I can, however, lend you the quotes.

What are the quotes you think I'd be interested in, including the Kun and Plagueis ones.

Jedi:
Luke Skywalker
Yoda
Mace Windu
Obi-Wan Kenobi
Kyp Durron

*Anakin Solo would have made the top 5, but he was KIA.

Sith:
Darth Sidious
Darth Vader
Darth Caedus
Darth Bane
Darth Revan

Wolfpac - I highly disagree with you about Anakin Skywalker. He makes top 10, but not top 5. Elite, if Galen survived he probably would have been as powerful as Kyp and in my opinion, Kyp is far stronger than Anakin Skywalker - not Vader. But then again, Galen defeated Vader.

As far as the most powerful jedi go, Obiwan is not on the top 5 imo. While he is arguably the greatest master of Soresu in history,his force powers are lacking. Marek imo is more powerful than Kenobi and would beat him due to his force powers. While he did beat Anakin Skywalker, the latter is a much more dangerous opponent imo, especially if he fights like the way he finished off Dooku. Kyle Katarn should also be considered on this list, if more was known about Revan I'd say a case could be made for him but until then I wouldn't put him in the top 5.

As far as sith go, Darth Revan is not one of them. He barely has anything to his name, compared so someone like Exar Kun, who has the quote from the Encyclopedia as Gideon noted. Darth Nihilus is another sith that could be on this list. The biggest unknowns that could have a place on the list but not enough is known about them are Ragnos,Nadd and Plaugeis.

I wouldn't say Darth Revan has 'barely anything to his name', but yeah, we can't put him up there considering we know very little about him.

As for the thread, well, it is obviously based on opinion:

Jedi-
1. Luke Skywalker
2. Yoda
3. Kyp Durron/Mace Windu
4. Anakin Skywalker
5. Haven't made up my mind.

Sith-
1. Darth Sidious

Not sure about the order, but Exar Kun, Vader, Bane, and Caedus are most definitely up there.


EDIT-sorry for the double post.

I probably was exaggerating with the barely part, but when most of his combat feats are killing non force sensitives then I don't see how that warrants him as top 5 material. The only nonforce sensitive that he killed which is fairly impressive for what it is, is him killing Yusanis in combat, Sure he has alot of knowledge but we don't much about that knowledge and how much of it is combat related or how much of it can't be found at other sith locations such Zoist or Korriban especially since the true sith appear to be survivors of the sith empire of the great hyperspace war.

Reason I put Revan on my list was how easily he was able to turn Jedi to the darkside. You're right about Kyle - my apologies I forgot about him. You believe that Marek should make the top 5? It's a shame his character didn't fully develop.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
You believe that Marek should make the top 5? It's a shame his character didn't fully develop.

I'm not sure if he is in the top 5, for the vast majority of life he was nothing more then an extremely powerful dark jedi, but his duel with Darth Vader is very impressive, is there any mention in the novel regarding his mind state/personality that truly make him a jedi rather than just being called one.

@ Wolkpack

As far this thread goes, by "power" do you power in the force or combination of that and saber skills or any other ability that helps in combat?

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
I'm not sure if he is in the top 5, for the vast majority of life he was nothing more then an extremely powerful dark jedi, but his duel with Darth Vader is very impressive, is there any mention in the novel regarding his mind state/personality that truly make him a jedi rather than just being called one.

@ Wolkpack

As far this thread goes, by "power" do you power in the force or combination of that and saber skills or any other ability that helps in combat?

Overall combination of skill with a lightsaber as well as force use.

Lightsaber and Force:

Jedi:
Luke Skywalker
Yoda
Mace Windu
Kyp Durron
Jacen Solo/Anakin Solo

*I would have put Galen Marek, but he too was KIA

Sith:
Darth Sidious
Darth Vader
Darth Caedus
Darth Bane
Exar Kun

*I'm putting lightsaber in too. Not sure about Kun because his power was enhanced by the amulets. But he was a VERY skilled swordsman. Darth Maul could have made the list, but he didn't fully develop his power.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Lightsaber and Force:

Jedi:
Luke Skywalker
Yoda
Mace Windu
Kyp Durron
Jacen Solo/Anakin Solo

*I would have put Galen Marek, but he too was KIA

Sith:
Darth Sidious
Darth Vader
Darth Caedus
Darth Bane
Exar Kun

*I'm putting lightsaber in too. Not sure about Kun because his power was enhanced by the amulets. But he was a VERY skilled swordsman. Darth Maul could have made the list, but he didn't fully develop his power.

You list is pretty good except for the inclusion of light side jacen.

Fan Skywalker a question - was Anakin Solo more powerful than Jacen in the NJO series despite being younger? If Anakin survived the Myrkr mission would he have the capacity to kill Onimi? It's obvious that he is more than a match for the average YV warrior, but it was Jacen who killed Onimi. So that's the reason why I put lightside Jacen alongside Anakin.

Anakin hadn't had as much training as Jacen, because he was younger. Every time they sparred, Jacen won. Anakin had more force power than Jacen I think, but just not as much experience. Anakin would have been the next Grand Master in due time. Anakin also had more force power than Kyp Durron before he died, and I don't remember it referenced that Jacen had passed Kyp mid-NJO.

Vorpal, Kyp did make a mention that Anakin "was the future of the Jedi" so you may be correct. I think Anakin surpased Jacen when he was killed. He more than held his own despite being mortally wounded. When he also opened himself to the Force didn't he litterally become the Force to the point where Luke actually felt him "burning?"

Like you, I do think he would have surpased Kyp in the Force. IMO he should have survived and fought Caedus in LOTF. That would have been a spectacular battle. But NJO had to ruin it.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Vorpal, Kyp did make a mention that Anakin "was the future of the Jedi" so you may be correct. I think Anakin surpased Jacen when he was killed. He more than held his own despite being mortally wounded. When he also opened himself to the Force didn't he litterally become the Force to the point where Luke actually felt him "burning?"

Like you, I do think he would have surpased Kyp in the Force. IMO he should have survived and fought Caedus in LOTF. That would have been a spectacular battle. But NJO had to ruin it.

Anakin already was stronger than Kyp forcewise in NJO. It says it somewhere.

In potential only.

If Anakin survived, IMO he could have been more powerful than Caedus who was said to be stronger than Vader. In theory, if Anakin survived to be in LoTF he would have been a much better canidate than Jaina to fight Caedus. Caedus would have to deal with a much better lightsaber artist and a person who is as strong or stronger in the Force. Would Anakin have been a Master? That's a question that will never be answered. But the Force and lightsaber duel between Anakin and Caedus would have been something to read. Purple blade vs Crimson. Raw Force vs Raw Force - IMO it would have made the duel between Caedus & Luke look like a practice match.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
If Anakin survived, IMO he could have been more powerful than Caedus who was said to be stronger than Vader. In theory, if Anakin survived to be in LoTF he would have been a much better canidate than Jaina to fight Caedus. Caedus would have to deal with a much better lightsaber artist and a person who is as strong or stronger in the Force. Would Anakin have been a Master? That's a question that will never be answered. But the Force and lightsaber duel between Anakin and Caedus would have been something to read. Purple blade vs Crimson. Raw Force vs Raw Force - IMO it would have made the duel between Caedus & Luke look like a practice match.

Was Anakin Solo ever described as being more powerful than Jacen? I seem to remember people saying he was a lot like his grandfather and namesake in terms of his personality: quick to action but I can't remember them ever comparing him to Jacen.

Also at the time Jacen was a strict pacifist and most believed that was the reason his potential wasn't being fulfilled.

It's still crazy to think that an empath like Jacen turned to the dark side, after Traitor & the Unifiying Force it seemed he was destined to be grandmaster of the Jedi.

Originally posted by Allankles
Was Anakin Solo ever described as being more powerful than Jacen? I seem to remember people saying he was a lot like his grandfather and namesake in terms of his personality: quick to action but I can't remember them ever comparing him to Jacen.

Also at the time Jacen was a strict pacifist and most believed that was the reason his potential wasn't being fulfilled.

It's still crazy to think that an empath like Jacen turned to the dark side, after Traitor & the Unifiying Force it seemed he was destined to be grandmaster of the Jedi.

I believe Anakin was the most powerful Solo, and he was set to take over as Luke's successor in the long run. Apparently though, GL had Anakin killed off because many people would mistake him with Anakin Skywalker (completely stupid), and instead made Jacen what Anakin should have become. So yes, Anakin was the most powerful Solo.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I believe Anakin was the most powerful Solo, and he was set to take over as Luke's successor in the long run. Apparently though, GL had Anakin killed off because many people would mistake him with Anakin Skywalker (completely stupid), and instead made Jacen what Anakin should have become. So yes, Anakin was the most powerful Solo.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Apparently though, GL had Anakin killed off because many people would mistake him with Anakin Skywalker (completely stupid), and instead made Jacen what Anakin should have become. So yes, Anakin was the most powerful Solo.

Half way down on source 43(after the authors initially said GL ordered Anakin Solo's death) on Anakin Solo's wookieepedia page it says the following in regards to Anakin's death. Which says that GL didn't order the death of Anakin.

*Later, Shelly Shapiro clarified in the VIP thread in the official site that "Actually I don't really know what happened, I thought Lucas was involved but I'm not sure, what I said was just speculation based on what I thought I knew." Sue Rostini also stated that George Lucas did not order Anakin to be killed off. "No, George did not tell us to kill Anakin. He didn't tell us to kill anybody. He approved the deaths of characters, in theory, then told us who we COULDN'T kill (i.e., Luke). The creative group decided the main story plot points (i.e., the deaths) and the author(s) created the action and situations."

Those a-holes killed Ana... Kenny! You bastard!

Just how strong would have Anakin have been over Luke? At the age of what 14 or 15 he surpassed Kyp in Force potential and Kyp is accordingly to Luke frighteningly strong. Fast forward in theory if Anakin was 18 or 19, how strong would he have been?

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Just how strong would have Anakin have been over Luke? At the age of what 14 or 15 he surpassed Kyp in Force potential and Kyp is accordingly to Luke frighteningly strong. Fast forward in theory if Anakin was 18 or 19, how strong would he have been?

There is no way to tell or even speculate really.

Strong, okay? We don't know. He's dead.

I bet if Dark Obi-Wan implanted him with some of Starkiller's genes, gave him orbalisks, sent him back in time to learn everything Sidious knew, and equipped him with the Robes of Killer Cool and a double-bladed lightsaber, he'd be the best ever by far and would solo (hah, see what I did there?) his whole family.

Originally posted by Publius II
I bet if Dark Obi-Wan implanted him with some of Starkiller's genes, gave him orbalisks, sent him back in time to learn everything Sidious knew, and equipped him with the Robes of Killer Cool and a double-bladed lightsaber, he'd be the best ever by far and would solo (hah, see what I did there?) his whole family.

By George! Faunus, I think you have a new Novel idea!

BTW, I want Robes of Killer Cool.

Seven bucks in advance and we'll talk.

Sorry, I don't have that kind of money laying around.

Perhaps if you write a novel or short story on it you would make seven bucks profit though(give or take seven bucks).

Lol, Faunus that was a little cruel but hilarious none the less.

I try.

You do know that Sidious legitimately defeated Marek, right? And that Sidious only became more powerful later on?

And why is Depa Billaba on that list, while Yoda is not?

Caedus was defeated by Mara BEFORE becoming a Sith.

Jaina needed a ton of help to take down Caedus. You are selling the fella a little short. also, Bane?

His entire list is sarcasm.

Wow! I'm curious JM; what "proof" is there that Depa is "better" than Master Yoda? Please humor me/us.

The proof is that Mace could beat Palpatine. Yoda not.

Originally posted by JediMaster97
The proof is that Mace could beat Palpatine. Yoda not.

There are two fallacies here:

1 - ABC logic in and of itself fails in determining the superiority of one combatant over another.

2 - Mace failed as much in executing Sidious as Yoda did. This is analogous to what happened to the USA in the Vietnam conflict. We didn't lose in that we were overpowered, we lost in that we failed to achieve our objective. Likewise, Mace and Yoda failed in that they both fell short of their goal - executing/capturing Darth Sidious. Do you understand the difference?

3 - Allright, I lied and said there were only two, but you're also ignoring the numerous CANON sources plainly stating that Yoda is the most powerful Jedi in the order. No matter what you think, you cannot argue against canon and hope to win.

To all you who stay against my opinion:Just read the ROTS novel(Wich is canon of course)

facepalm

Again:

Originally posted by me
As Jinsoku pointed out, by RotS Yoda was called "the most powerful foe of darkness bla bla.” It really says something. And definitely it indicates that Mace or Depa are not more powerful than Yoda.

Originally posted by JediMaster97
To all you who stay against my opinion:Just read the ROTS novel(Wich is canon of course)

Do you recall the part of the novel that calls Yoda "the the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known"?

Please read the RotS novel again.

Do you recall the sentence right before that that specifies that line is Yoda's own personal opinion?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Do you recall the sentence right before that that specifies that line is Yoda's own personal opinion?
No.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Do you recall the sentence right before that that specifies that line is Yoda's own personal opinion?

Everytime I see your name right after I post, I know the load of bullshit I'm about to encounter.

Look ass-crack; If you have something of value to add to this mess, please feel free to do so. Otherwise, please refrain from interjecting your useless, assinine comments.

Then by all means translate them.

Oh by the way ,Mace chose himself to fight Palpatine because HE was the best jedi to face a sith-lord and the council agreed.

Originally posted by JediMaster97
Oh by the way ,Mace chose himself to fight Palpatine because HE was the best jedi to face a sith-lord and the council agreed.



Yoda was on Kashyyk... Of course he couldn't go and fight Sidious at the time.

Originally posted by JediMaster97
Oh by the way ,Mace chose himself to fight Palpatine because HE was the best jedi to face a sith-lord and the council agreed.

doctor You need help.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Everytime I see your name right after I post, I know the load of bullshit I'm about to encounter.

Look ass-crack; If you have something of value to add to this mess, please feel free to do so. Otherwise, please refrain from interjecting your useless, assinine comments.

http://www.fatwallet.com/static/attachments/78431_cool_story_bro.bmp

Why don't you crawl back under your rock before I shit miles of rage snake with which to choke you til you like it f*ckass?



Exactly the point: He does not. Rendering the quote kinda meaningless.



He is?

News to me.

DE, you're dumb. Jedimaster, lol.

"Finally, he saw the truth.

This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known... just-didn't-have it."

How is this from Yoda's perspective? Even if we take the whole thing to be something that Yoda saw Stover notes it as the "truth".

Originally posted by Nephthys
Why don't you crawl back under your rock before I shit miles of rage snake with which to choke you, ****ass?

Your mom choked on my snake last night - turd-****.

No, Sexy, it is YOU, who is, the dumb one.

Kickass rebuttal! While calling me sexy, of course.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Your mom choked on my snake last night - turd-****.

I think you should seriously piss the grubfvcking hell off before I serve you a piping hot nutrition plateau full of fvck you.



Its a description of Yoda's own personal epiphany, not the words of the omniscient narrator.

Originally posted by ares834
"Finally, he saw the truth.

This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known... just-didn't-have it."

How is this from Yoda's perspective?

I said it once:There are more than just this quote.There are also two quotes wich say that Anakin is the most powerful jedi.And thats stupid of course.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Kickass rebuttal! While calling me sexy, of course.

I only speak the truth babah.

Edit: Btw, that quote calling Anakin the fastest Jedi of his generation? Is that binding and including Yoda? Because that would bump him quite a bit higher in my personal esteme than he is currently sitting at.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Its a description of Yoda's own personal epiphany, not the words of the omniscient narrator.

So you think he saw that he was the most uber Jedi ever rather than be some descriptors of Stover? K. But it remains important to note that Stover claims this is the "truth".

Originally posted by Nephthys
I think you should seriously piss the grubfvcking hell off before I serve you a piping hot nutrition plateau full of fvck you.



Its a description of Yoda's own personal epiphany, not the words of the omniscient narrator. This is wrong. Look at what's separated by the commas. After he, it becomes the author, followed by yoda's thoughts. Nice try though. Also jedimaster, show us where it says that. Your arguments are stupid.

Originally posted by JediMaster97
I said it once:There are more than just this quote.There are also two quotes wich say that Anakin is the most powerful jedi.And thats stupid of course.

No, there isn't. Anakin is merely called the most powerful of his generation.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Its a description of Yoda's own personal epiphany, not the words of the omniscient narrator.


Hmm, to me it looks like the narrator says that Yoda finally saw the truth, and then proceeds to tell us what is this "truth." It's not like Yoda is sayng that.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I think you should seriously piss the grubfvcking hell off before I serve you a piping hot nutrition plateau full of fvck you.

LMAO!! ***king cock-biter!

HE just didn't have it, is all that is considered yoda's thoughts.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
HE just didn't have it, is all that is considered yoda's thoughts.

Originally posted by ares834
No, there isn't. Anakin is merely called the most powerful of his generation.

Exactly! Also, the quote regarding Windu, Kolar, Fisto, and Tinn involves the qualifier 'some of the most' preceeding the term accomplished/greatest, or something to that effect.

Facepalm

Ball-gargling, panty-wearing, crow fvcking little shitstain!

Why teh fvck would you fvck a crow, seriously?

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
This is wrong. Look at what's separated by the commas. After he, it becomes the author, followed by yoda's thoughts. Nice try though. Also jedimaster, show us where it says that. Your arguments are stupid.

That is but a singular interpretation of the quote, it could just as easily be read as Yoda going 'even I, the most powerful mofo ever, cannot defeat him.'

This is infact the correct interpretation. Everything after the 'This Truth:' bit is Yoda's own personal conclusion.




Its a description of the conclusion Yoda came to, that he didn't have it.

Edit Missed this:



The 'truth' is only relevent to Yoda's conclusion, that he couldn't beat Sidious. Everything else is fluff.

Haha as usual DE, youre wrong.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ball-gargling, panty-wearing, crow fvcking little shitstain!

Why teh fvck would you fvck a crow, seriously?



That is but a singular interpretation of the quote, it could just as easily be read as Yoda going 'even I, the most powerful mofo ever, cannot defeat him.'

This is infact the correct interpretation. Everything after the 'This Truth:' bit is Yoda's own personal conclusion.




Its a description of the conclusion Yoda came to, that he didn't have it.

From my understanding of linguistics, since the quote in question is not indicative of Yoda's word-for-word thought process, it is not to be used as such. It is narration, and is therefore to be interpreted in no other manner.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That is but a singular interpretation of the quote, it could just as easily be read as Yoda going 'even I, the most powerful mofo ever, cannot defeat him.'

This is infact the correct interpretation. Everything after the 'This Truth:' bit is Yoda's own personal conclusion.

Regardless, Stover calls this the "truth" meaning it is well true.

Correct.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Haha as usual DE, youre wrong.

Haha, as usual DS, you have such a sweet ass.



No, it is a narration spelling out Yoda's thought process. It is not the narrator saying these things, it is th enarator telling the reader what Yoda is saying.



The 'truth' is only relevent to Yoda's conclusion, that he couldn't beat Sidious. Everything else is fluff.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ball-gargling, panty-wearing, crow fvcking little shitstain!

Why teh fvck would you fvck a crow, seriously?

To bear you, my son.








I am your father.

http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/vader.jpg

Originally posted by Nephthys
The 'truth' is only relevent to Yoda's conclusion, that he couldn't beat Sidious. Everything else is fluff.

Lol. Stover calls Yoda's epiphany the "truth". Meaning the entire epiphany is true, which, according to you, includes the "greatest foe" etc...

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
From my understanding of linguistics, since the quote in question is not indicative of Yoda's word-for-word thought process, it is not to be used as such. It is narration, and is therefore to be interpreted in no other manner.

Here is some help for you.

Almost all contemporary fiction is coined by the used of third-person limited narrative, with the RotS novel just using different focal characters (e.g. Dooku, Obi-Wan, Yoda, Mace). There is no "omniscient" narrator. Given this, all of the narrative in the RotS novel is derived from the thoughts, feelings and knowledge of the focal characters. For the fight between Yoda and Sidious, this character is Yoda. So the quote in question, even though presented by the third-person narrator, is absolutely spawning from Yoda's mind.

And while I don't want to question / discuss whether Yoda's perception is true or not, it's certainly questionable.

JediMaster, not so good at this.
I'll just touch the Depa Bilaba tripe:

She never had a chance to kill Mace in a normal fight situation. Every circumstance of that fight favored her, INCLUDING a suprise attack that meant the fight started with Mace having a lightsaber through the belly.

When you take a life-threatening wound before the duel begins, nothing about the duel is even.

Originally posted by truejedi
JediMaster, not so good at this.
I'll just touch the Depa Bilaba tripe:

She never had a chance to kill Mace in a normal fight situation. Every circumstance of that fight favored her, INCLUDING a suprise attack that meant the fight started with Mace having a lightsaber through the belly.

When you take a life-threatening wound before the duel begins, nothing about the duel is even.

Not to mention the fact that he was shot to hell not too long before the duel.

Mace seemed to say at one point that Kenobi would have a better chance against Grievous than Mace would... doesn't mean he was right. Mace is ridiculously humble in his self-assessments pretty often.

Originally posted by truejedi
Mace seemed to say at one point that Kenobi would have a better chance against Grievous than Mace would... doesn't mean he was right. Mace is ridiculously humble in his self-assessments pretty often.

Indeed.

Teaching newbies the ropes has never been easier.

There was no mention of "PARTS."

I'm sure he mentioned her parts somewhere.

He didn't.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
I'm sure he mentioned her parts somewhere.

Giggidy.

Originally posted by truejedi
Mace seemed to say at one point that Kenobi would have a better chance against Grievous than Mace would... doesn't mean he was right. Mace is ridiculously humble in his self-assessments pretty often. I think in that particular instance, Mace was speaking the truth - not just being overly humble. After all, he'd already engaged Grievous in a saber duel beforehand, so he knew the cyborg's capabilities very well...

"Without pausing, Grievous drew two lightsabers from inside his billowing cloak. By the time they were ignited, Mace was already on and all over the cyborg, batting away at the two blades, swinging low at Grievous's artificial legs, thrusting at his skeletal face. The lightsabers thrummed and hissed, meeting one another in bursts of dazzling light

As Mace already knew from Ki-Adi-Mundi and Shaak Ti, Grievous was well trained in the Jedi arts. He could recognize the hand of Dooku in the general's training and technique. His strikes were as forceful as any Mace had ever had to counter, and his speed was astonishing. But he didn't know Vaapad - - the technique of dark flirtation in which Mace excelled

Successful at analyzing Mace's lightsaber style, Grievous altered his stance and posture, along with the angle of his parries, ripostes, and thrusts. The result wasn't Vaapad, but it was close enough, and Mace wasn't interested in prolonging the contest any longer than necessary" - Labyrinth of Evil

Because this particular battle took place in an environment where Mace was unable to readily utilize any offensive force powers (ie. force push/crush) to his advantage, he had no other option then to go saber to saber with Grievous... And in that area, the novel described them as near-equals (thanks mainly to GG's ability to copy combat forms -even those as complex as Vaapad- on the fly.) Also keep in mind that Grievous was only wielding two sabers at the time.

So the impenetrable defense Kenobi's Soresu offered was almost certainly the best suited to combating Grievous (from a saber/duel standpoint), imo.

Yeah I doubt it was Kenobi's "superior skill with a blade" that Mace was talking about. It was the superior defensive nature of Kenobi's style that was best suited for this particular situation.

When Kenobi did fight him, he really took Grevious apart for precisely that reason.

Due to Grevious's speed and arms, pretty much everyone else is going to be more defensive-footed than they're used to, but Obi-wan's style is designed for that situation. Windu or Yoda would've still won, of course, but Kenobi was still an ideal Jedi for the job.

JEDI
1) Luke Skywalker/Yoda:I don't agree, it should be revan
2) Mace Windu:now it shoud be luke and yoda
3) Revan:windu

4) Anakin Skywalker:no way......:it is either mundi,fisto, or kenobi or shaak ti
5) Obi-Wan Kenobi:Any jedi except anakin


SITH LORDS
1) Darth Sidious:No darth revan
2) Darth Revan:no darth sidious
3) Darth Bane:no darth caedus
4) Exar Kun:dooku
5) Marka Ragnos:Random sht

I guess living for about 6000 years(capable of living forever),createing lava,forming phantoms that can inflict damage on multiple worlds in such a vast numbers,is a weak thing compared to what everyone else listed above did.Correct me if I am wrong here but if not nadd and Naga discovering the orbalisks bane would be dead.Sidous would not have lived three lives,exar kun used naga's live saveing ameulet,while revan used his blade.And agin createing force lightning is a biggy since it saved sid's live and bane's.but whatever you think is better

Originally posted by Gideon
Ranking the Jedi and Sith in terms of power is an impossibly difficult task, even if you subscribed to a comprehensive analysis of canon. There are certain placements, however: Darth Sidious has displayed a far greater command of and strength in the dark side of the Force than any other Sith Lord in history; his status as the most powerful Lord of the Sith is documented by numerous sources. The RotS novelization regards Yoda as "the most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known" -- making it quite clear that, as of the prequel trilogy, he is more powerful than any Jedi before him.

You have individuals such as Luke Skywalker, who has, at various times, demonstrating a command of the Force on par with or surpassing Yoda or Sidious, yet aren't given any accolades by proper sources. Jacen Solo is someone who hasn't truly demonstrated a great destructive or offensive power, but has been cited by various sources as "second only to Luke" in terms of strength in the new Jedi Order (putting him above Force titan Kyp Durron), wielding power that has "even surpassed his grandfather, Darth Vader" (a Sith Lord whose potency was 80% of Palpatine's own), and "the most powerful of the Sith Lords."

The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia credits Exar Kun and Darth Plagueis as being two of "the most powerful" Sith Lords in history, despite -- in the case of the latter -- having no feats to his name. Marka Ragnos is another highly regarded and feared Sith Lord despite nothing to gauge his powers on. Other than that he was the most powerful of the ancient Sith.

Individuals like Count Dooku seem to possess a greater refined skill than any true raw strength; Yoda cited him as the Temple's greatest and most learned student and the RotS novelization regards him as "one of the most powerful Jedi in the Order's 25 thousand year history" and "an even greater Lord of the Sith," suggesting an incredibly high placement. Darth Vader seems to possess great telekinetic skill and incredible raw strength, being 80% of Sidious in terms of power and possessing a greater command of the Force than Kar Vastor (who is regarded as being on par with Yoda and Anakin; Emperor's Hand Cronal regarded Vastor's connection to the Force as "astonishingly powerful".

In short, it's really hard. What is certain is pretty much only that Sidious is the most powerful Sith ever. i just read the part where you said "sidous would definately make this list"!

I got a few siths that would pawn everyone mentioned below and and above!!!
they tag team vs. all
*TULAK HORD
*NAGA SADOW
*FREDDON NADDA
*DARTH ZAHHNAH
*VSON
*GALEN MAREK

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Galen "defeated" Sidious in the game. But the novel (the higher canon), and Starwars.com both state that ultimately Starkiller was unable to overcome the Emperor's powers (to paraphrase). And Palpatine's power only increases between TFU an DE.


Lightsaber skill and Force prowess are not interchangeable terms. Kas'im is arguably one of the best swordsman to have ever lived, but that does not mean his telekinetic mastery, or Lightning proficiency is the best ever. Obi-Wan is the greatest defensive swordsmen ever, but he was gripped and hucked away with one motion by Dooku. Sword skill=/=Force skill.


Mace defeating Yoda in a sword battle is another story entirely.

EDIT: I'm also wondering where Bane and Caedus are on your list, and why the likes of the Unknown Plagueis and Revan are above them. But sidous was so powerful in the force!!(sorry for not adding him to my list).

It's like you intentionally make yourself impossible to understand.

Originally posted by Eminence
It's like you intentionally make yourself impossible to understand. teeheehe,


__JEDI__
*the family of the force
*revan
*yoda
*mace
*skywalkers/solos
*asharadd hett(idk how to spell his name)/hett
*plo koon
*beygorh shaddet
*tusken jedi clan

Originally posted by Naga Sado
teeheehe,


__JEDI__
*the family of the force
*revan
*yoda
*mace
*skywalkers/solos
*asharadd hett(idk how to spell his name)/hett
*plo koon
*beygorh shaddet
*tusken jedi clan

Yeah, let's see... Revan is definitely NOT ahead of Yoda, Plo Koon... well... just never mind... you're not worth the effort.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Yeah, let's see... Revan is definitely NOT ahead of Yoda, Plo Koon... well... just never mind... you're not worth the effort. hell i didnt know who ta put between.

Jinsoku Takai
Yeah, let's see... Revan is definitely NOT ahead of Yoda, Plo Koon... well... just never mind... you're not worth the effort.
Says the "systems administrator." Stupid underqualified toolkit, he's a clone wars exspert. You are nothing.

Edit: Really though, where's the Roron Corobb love?

Originally posted by Eminence
Says the "systems administrator." Stupid underqualified toolkit, he's a clone wars exspert. You are nothing.
Right, what was I thinking? It was the alcohol talking. I should have never doubted an exspert. Sorry.

And Roron Corobb falling flat against GG... well... yeah that's all I have to say about that.

Originally posted by Eminence
Says the "systems administrator." Stupid underqualified toolkit, he's a clone wars exspert. You are nothing.

Edit: Really though, where's the Roron Corobb love? Im not the "top 5 jedi ranking exspert"and I am more of a sith person than a jedi.fine

just ranking
*the family of the force
*tusken jedi clan
*hetts
*revan
*yoda
*skywalkers
*solos
*mace and his padawon
*sahdett or plo koon(and anyone below)
not in order

i think anakin skywalker should be in the top 5 jedi, he had become extremely powerful right before his turning to the dark side

While I like Hett, A'Sharad doesn't belong on a 'most powerful Jedi' list, he's just one of the CW Jedi order's several badasses. It's when he turns Sith or, better yet, when he's reborn, that he gets uber.