Combat Speed/Reflex Contest of Top-tiers

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Starscream M
Rank the following top-tiers according to their level of combat speed/reflex from fastest to slowest.

Superman

Wonder Woman

Darkseid

Silver Surfer

Thor

Thanos

Philosophía
Superman
Wonder Woman
Darkseid
Silver Surfer
Thanos
Thor

The Great Galen
Originally posted by Starscream M
Rank the following top-tiers according to their level of combat speed/reflex from fastest to slowest.

Superman

Wonder Woman

Darkseid

Silver Surfer

Thor

Thanos

Supes
Diana
DS
SS
Thor
Thans

Naija boy
Originally posted by Starscream M
Rank the following top-tiers according to their level of combat speed/reflex from fastest to slowest.

Superman

Wonder Woman

Darkseid

Silver Surfer

Thor

Thanos

Superman

Silver surfer

Wonderwoman

Darkseid

Thanos

thor.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by Naija boy
Superman

Silver surfer

Wonderwoman

Darkseid

Thanos

thor.

Why is SS faster then Diana?

Eel O'Brien

Bouboumaster
Silver Surfer
Superman
Wonder Woman
Darkseid
Thanos
Thor

Minus Thor, they have all great reflexes, but I think it would be like that.

I put Silver Surfer above everyone, because not only he can think and see at FTL speed, but he can calculate trajectories. In a scan in the respect thread, he calculate the pattern of teleportation of someone and hit him at the moment he can_.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Silver Surfer
Superman
Wonder Woman
Darkseid
Thanos
Thor

Minus Thor, they have all great reflexes, but I think it would be like that.

I put Silver Surfer above everyone, because not only he can think and see at FTL speed, but he can calculate trajectories. In a scan in the respect thread, he calculate the pattern of teleportation of someone and hit him at the moment he can_.

This is about combat speed and related reflex, but then again it's you so....

Bouboumaster
Originally posted by The Great Galen
This is about combat speed and related reflex, but then again it's you so....

Reflexes are reflexes ^^

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Starscream M
Rank the following top-tiers according to their level of combat speed/reflex from fastest to slowest.

Superman

Wonder Woman

Darkseid

Silver Surfer

Thor

Thanos why?

The Great Galen
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Reflexes are reflexes ^^

Combat speed is combat speed, and reflexes are different in combat then they are in navigation...this particular thread is dealing with combat reflexes.

Eel O'Brien
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Silver Surfer
Superman
Wonder Woman
Darkseid
Thanos
Thor

Minus Thor, they have all great reflexes, but I think it would be like that.

I put Silver Surfer above everyone, because not only he can think and see at FTL speed, but he can calculate trajectories. In a scan in the respect thread, he calculate the pattern of teleportation of someone and hit him at the moment he can_.

I see where you're coming from with this. But with SS calculating patterns, he's using a level of anticipation that goes beyond reflex time.

Now, if he implements it in a fight, then it would roll into overall combat speed, so I guess it's all in how you look at it.

Starscream M
Originally posted by psycho gundam
why? huh?

skyfather
superman
silver surfer
wonderwoman
thanos
thor
darksied

The Great Galen
Originally posted by Eel O'Brien
I see where you're coming from with this. But with SS calculating patterns, he's using a level of anticipation that goes beyond reflex time.

Now, if he implements it in a fight, then it would roll into overall combat speed, so I guess it's all in how you look at it.

Except he hasn't applied it into a battle and since when does fast reflex trasnlate to fast movement. He has good pilot reflexes which no one will deny, but as it's been explained before MA is a very different kind of animal then navigation. Besides even if he could apply reflex into battle he would still need to apply speed in order for it to be effective.

Spire
Superman
Wonder Woman
Darkseid
Thanos
Silver Surfer
Thor

Eel O'Brien
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Except he hasn't applied it into a battle and since when does fast reflex trasnlate to fast movement. He has good pilot reflexes which no one will deny, but as it's been explained before MA is a very different kind of animal then navigation. Besides even if he could apply reflex into battle he would still need to apply speed in order for it to be effective.

Whoa, whoa; put it in park, Sheriff. I said IF he used it in a fight.

It's not that it would make his physical speed any faster, but he would be more efficient because he could lead his attacks. Like in Boxing; you can't always put your fist where the other guy's head is, sometimes you have to put it where his head is going to be.

Anyway, this is all just speculation. I already gave my list and I didn't have Surfer at the top.

darthgoober
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Except he hasn't applied it into a battle and since when does fast reflex trasnlate to fast movement. He has good pilot reflexes which no one will deny, but as it's been explained before MA is a very different kind of animal then navigation. Besides even if he could apply reflex into battle he would still need to apply speed in order for it to be effective.
Yes he has. He's used speed in battle against Nova, Hulk, and Lunatik. Now stop lying.

KuRuPT Thanosi
Supes
SS
WW
DS
Thanos
THor

I put SS slightly ahead of WW simply because of how fast he's been shown to fly, dodge and fire while in combat. He's simply faster then WW and can think at faster speeds. Now if this was strickly h2h combat and relexes I would give the edge to WW.

Raoul
Superman
Wonder Woman/Silver Surfer
Darkseid
Thanos
Thor

Naija boy
Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes he has. He's used speed in battle against Nova, Hulk, and Lunatik. Now stop lying.

And deathurge as well.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes he has. He's used speed in battle against Nova, Hulk, and Lunatik. Now stop lying.

No he hasn't, not the same degree as supes or WW....not even close.

darthgoober
Originally posted by The Great Galen
No he hasn't, not the same degree as supes or WW....not even close.
You didn't say that he hadn't used it to the same degree as WW and Supes, what you said was...

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Except he hasn't applied it into a battle and since when does fast reflex trasnlate to fast movement. He has good pilot reflexes which no one will deny, but as it's been explained before MA is a very different kind of animal then navigation. Besides even if he could apply reflex into battle he would still need to apply speed in order for it to be effective.

...which is pretty much what you ALWAYS say. Saying that he doesn't use it as often as Supes or WW is totally accurate, but making the claim that he can't/doesn't use speed in battle at all is nothing more than you blatantly ignoring evidence.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by darthgoober
You didn't say that he hadn't used it to the same degree as WW and Supes, what you said was...



...which is pretty much what you ALWAYS say. Saying that he doesn't use it as often as Supes or WW is totally accurate, but making the claim that he can't/doesn't use speed in battle at all is nothing more than you blatantly ignoring evidence.

He doesn't use it as frequently or to the same effect as Supes or WW by quite a degree...and the examples you brought up are hardly examples of using speed. SS uses speed when travelling...during fights he does not.

darthgoober
Originally posted by The Great Galen
He doesn't use it as frequently or to the same effect as Supes or WW by quite a degree...and the examples you brought up are hardly examples of using speed. SS uses speed when travelling...during fights he does not.
They are examples of speed, and they all happened in combat. Hey how about we have a Battlezone and let the judges decide who's right smart ?

The Great Galen
Originally posted by darthgoober
They are examples of speed, and they all happened in combat. Hey how about we have a Battlezone and let the judges decide who's right smart ?

So you're honestly trying to say that SS combat speed is=Supes and WW......

darthgoober
Originally posted by The Great Galen
So you're honestly trying to say that SS combat speed is=Supes and WW......
That's not what I'm trying to say at all. What I'm trying to say is...

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes he has. He's used speed in battle against Nova, Hulk, and Lunatik. Now stop lying.

The Great Galen
You mean when he bullrushed them....guess that's speed.

darthgoober
Originally posted by The Great Galen
You mean when he bullrushed them....guess that's speed.
No I mean when he did the same thing to Hulk that Supes did to Doomsday(which YOU bring up for Supes as proof of combat speed) and when he was kicking Lunatik's ass H2H. And in the instance with Deathurge that Naija broght up, he was dodging at lightspeed.

The Nova fight is the closest thing to a bullrush I mentioned, but the speed I was talking about was his throwing Nova.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by darthgoober
No I mean when he did the same thing to Hulk that Supes did to Doomsday(which YOU bring up for Supes as proof of combat speed) and when he was kicking Lunatik's ass H2H. And in the instance with Deathurge that Naija broght up, he was dodging at lightspeed.

The Nova fight is the closest thing to a bullrush I mentioned, but the speed I was talking about was his throwing Nova.

Supes vibrated past Doomsdays punches, SS was just able to doge quickly which isn't anything normal humans can't do. Agaisnt Lunatik he wasn't blurring out or even close to superspeed, same deal agaisnt Naija. I don't recall him ever ultalizng superspeed movement without the aid of his board, so aside from just fighting at regular human speed what else does he got......

kgkg
Combat and reflexes are different things this is a merge ranking.This would be different it it were combat or reflex ranking only

1)Superman
2) Surfer
3) WW
4)Thor/Darkseid/Thanos tie

darthgoober
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Supes vibrated past Doomsdays punches, SS was just able to doge quickly which isn't anything normal humans can't do. Agaisnt Lunatik he wasn't blurring out or even close to superspeed, same deal agaisnt Naija. I don't recall him ever ultalizng superspeed movement without the aid of his board, so aside from just fighting at regular human speed what else does he got......
Proof that Surfer just dodged while Supes vibrated to the point of intangibility? I don't remember them mentioning the specific details of what was going on in either instance.

Lunatik couldn't land a punch at one point and Lunatik has super speed/reflexes.

Nova was grabbed by the throat and thrown with such speed that he didn't even see Surfer and questioned whether or not he was tagged by an energy blast from Galactus. And not only does Nova have super speed/reflexes, he actually has "DC style" super speed.

Against Deathurge... you're trippin because there were definite "speed lines" and a blur effect when Surfer was dodging.

And the instances with Hulk and Lunatik I mentioned both happened while Surfer was off his board.

horrorwolf
Originally posted by Eel O'Brien
I see where you're coming from with this. But with SS calculating patterns, he's using a level of anticipation that goes beyond reflex time.

Now, if he implements it in a fight, then it would roll into overall combat speed, so I guess it's all in how you look at it.

Correct - Surfer's potential here trumps most everyone.

fangirl101
Originally posted by Starscream M
Rank the following top-tiers according to their level of combat speed/reflex from fastest to slowest.

Superman

Wonder Woman

Darkseid

Silver Surfer

Thor

Thanos
Overall Combat Speed

DS-Anyone who can blitz Superman is either the flash or quite uber.
Superman
Surfer
WW
Thanos
Thor

Reflexes
WW. No one in comics but a flash is beating her in this dept.
Thanos- He pwns heralds flying thru hyperspace
Superman/Surfer
DS
Thor

The Great Galen
Originally posted by darthgoober
Proof that Surfer just dodged while Supes vibrated to the point of intangibility? I don't remember them mentioning the specific details of what was going on in either instance.

Lunatik couldn't land a punch at one point and Lunatik has super speed/reflexes.

Nova was grabbed by the throat and thrown with such speed that he didn't even see Surfer and questioned whether or not he was tagged by an energy blast from Galactus. And not only does Nova have super speed/reflexes, he actually has "DC style" super speed.

Against Deathurge... you're trippin because there were definite "speed lines" and a blur effect when Surfer was dodging.

And the instances with Hulk and Lunatik I mentioned both happened while Surfer was off his board.

The art clearly illustrates Supes vibrating, Sufer merly dodged....narrative spoon feeding can't always apply everytime you know.

Nova instance was on his board so next, agaisnt Deathurge and Lunatik he wasn't using superspeed...he was on his board travelling very fast while dodging at the sametime.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by fangirl101
Overall Combat Speed

DS-Anyone who can blitz Superman is either the flash or quite uber.
Superman
Surfer
WW
Thanos
Thor

Reflexes
WW. No one in comics but a flash is beating her in this dept.
Thanos- He pwns heralds flying thru hyperspace
Superman/Surfer
DS
Thor

In regards to pure raw reflex, I'd say Thanos,SS and supes then WW followed by DS and thor.

fangirl101
Originally posted by The Great Galen
In regards to pure raw reflex, I'd say Thanos,SS and supes then WW followed by DS and thor.
You can say that. But comics shows that WW has superior reflexes to them all. Would you like me to prove it? Cuz WW instinctively blocks all manner of attacks. No one else does.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by fangirl101
You can say that. But comics shows that WW has superior reflexes to them all. Would you like me to prove it? Cuz WW instinctively blocks all manner of attacks. No one else does.

Because no other character shown here has durability as weak as her...if you can just walk past 100% of most offensive measures why would you block?

fangirl101
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Because no other character shown here has durability as weak as her...if you can just walk past 100% of most offensive measures why would you block?
Nah. Superman gets hurt by electricity. Surfer has been hurt by lightning. Thor has been KO'd by a bullet. Thanos has been hurt by Claws. And DS has been hurt by his own Omegas and Superman's fist. No one on this list can walk past 100% anything. At anyrate, You are arguing against your self. Why would you have to train your reflexes to be so uber as she does if you dont' have to? Duh.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by fangirl101
Nah. Superman gets hurt by electricity. Surfer has been hurt by lightning. Thor has been KO'd by a bullet. Thanos has been hurt by Claws. And DS has been hurt by his own Omegas and Superman's fist. No one on this list can walk past 100% anything. At anyrate, You are arguing against your self. Why would you have to train your reflexes to be so uber as she does if you dont' have to? Duh.

She can get punked by blades, compared to everyone else her she has incredibly weak durability. I mean you do understand its a important aspect of her character to deflect as it is in SS to have impressive piloting reflexes.

fangirl101
Originally posted by The Great Galen
She can get punked by blades, compared to everyone else her she has incredibly weak durability. I mean you do understand its a important aspect of her character to deflect as it is in SS to have impressive piloting reflexes.
nah. I've already posted and debunked that myth that blades can punk her. You should read her respect thread before posting statements like that.

And it's important to her character to have those insane auto reflexes. It's why no one bar a flash has better ones than her.

darthgoober
Originally posted by The Great Galen
The art clearly illustrates Supes vibrating, Sufer merly dodged....narrative spoon feeding can't always apply everytime you know.

Nova instance was on his board so next, agaisnt Deathurge and Lunatik he wasn't using superspeed...he was on his board travelling very fast while dodging at the sametime.
That's YOUR interpretation and opinion, there's no actual evidence to support it. What's shown on panel is far to similar to dismiss without proof.

It doesn't matter if was on his board unless you're claiming that his arm-speed/reflexes are dulled when he's off his board... in which case you're going to need to post evidence to support the claim.

He was reacting/dodging at lightspeed against Deathurge, thus he was using speed in combat. And he was standing toe to toe with Lunatik, he wasn't on his board.

Anyway, how about that Battlezone smart ? I'm sure the Mods would judge if it would end our repeat performances...

fangirl101
You both bore me with this superman surfer stuff.

Superman obviously fights faster than surfer. He's a physical character. I can't ever remember surfer strobe fighting or launching multiple physical attacks.

Not to say surfer can't dodge those kinds of attacks. especially since his long range perception is far superior to Superman's. No one is going to touch surfer unless he wants them to. at least not if he has enough space inbetween himself and that person.

Starscream M
Originally posted by fangirl101
You both bore me with this superman surfer stuff.
oh noes!!!

id369
Silver Surfer edges out Superman in liner speed. While Superman trumps in fluid movements.

Spire
Supes definitely takes the Surfer in agility and in H2H speed.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by darthgoober
That's YOUR interpretation and opinion, there's no actual evidence to support it. What's shown on panel is far to similar to dismiss without proof.

It doesn't matter if was on his board unless you're claiming that his arm-speed/reflexes are dulled when he's off his board... in which case you're going to need to post evidence to support the claim.

He was reacting/dodging at lightspeed against Deathurge, thus he was using speed in combat. And he was standing toe to toe with Lunatik, he wasn't on his board.

Anyway, how about that Battlezone smart ? I'm sure the Mods would judge if it would end our repeat performances...

Once again the art proves my case, Supes vibrated and SS simply dodged...that isn't anything a typical human can't do. Oh and Supes does have other showings were he has already vibrated so I seriously don't know why you're putting up so much resistance. So agaisnt deathurge they were both fighting in close quarters and engaged in MA while deathurge was throwing attacks at light speed.........

The Great Galen
Originally posted by fangirl101
You both bore me with this superman surfer stuff.

Superman obviously fights faster than surfer. He's a physical character. I can't ever remember surfer strobe fighting or launching multiple physical attacks.

Not to say surfer can't dodge those kinds of attacks. especially since his long range perception is far superior to Superman's. No one is going to touch surfer unless he wants them to. at least not if he has enough space inbetween himself and that person.

SS has been touched by characters at a great distance already, seems that his reflex goes out the window when he isn't flying.

psycho gundam
scans?

darthgoober
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Once again the art proves my case, Supes vibrated and SS simply dodged...that isn't anything a typical human can't do. Oh and Supes does have other showings were he has already vibrated so I seriously don't know why you're putting up so much resistance. So agaisnt deathurge they were both fighting in close quarters and engaged in MA while deathurge was throwing attacks at light speed.........
The art proves nothing, what happened on-panel is too similar to dismiss without proof.

Against Deathurge, yes they were fighting in fairly close quarters. Whether or not they were actually engaged in H2H is irrelevant. Dodging at lightspeed is dodging at lightspeed, if you can do it then you can do it whether it's against a punch, blast, etc.


But I'm happy to see that you've given up your bogus downplaying of the speed demonstrated against Nova and Lunatik smile .


Originally posted by The Great Galen
SS has been touched by characters at a great distance already, seems that his reflex goes out the window when he isn't flying.

Originally posted by darthgoober
That's YOUR interpretation and opinion, there's no actual evidence to support it. What's shown on panel is far to similar to dismiss without proof.

It doesn't matter if was on his board unless you're claiming that his arm-speed/reflexes are dulled when he's off his board... in which case you're going to need to post evidence to support the claim.

He was reacting/dodging at lightspeed against Deathurge, thus he was using speed in combat. And he was standing toe to toe with Lunatik, he wasn't on his board.

Anyway, how about that Battlezone smart ? I'm sure the Mods would judge if it would end our repeat performances...

The Great Galen
Originally posted by darthgoober
The art proves nothing, what happened on-panel is too similar to dismiss without proof.

Against Deathurge, yes they were fighting in fairly close quarters. Whether or not they were actually engaged in H2H is irrelevant. Dodging at lightspeed is dodging at lightspeed, if you can do it then you can do it whether it's against a punch, blast, etc.


But I'm happy to see that you've given up your bogus downplaying of the speed demonstrated against Nova and Lunatik smile .

1. Tennis players constantly react to shots coming at them at 100MPH in a fairly enclosed arena....by you're logic they can probably just step into a boxing arena and easily slip past every punched thrown there way.

2. Supes already has other showings where he performs similar feats, SS was just shown to move slightly away from Hulks attack while supes was shown vibrating past DD's attacks....it's what's shown so plz get over it.

3.No use in debating those Lunatik and Nova examples, he wasn't using super speed in either situation....well unless u wanna count him flying fast on his board and grabbing someone as "combat speed" lol.

darthgoober
Originally posted by The Great Galen
1. Tennis players constantly react to shots coming at them at 100MPH in a fairly enclosed arena....by you're logic they can probably just step into a boxing arena and easily slip past every punched thrown there way.

2. Supes already has other showings where he performs similar feats, SS was just shown to move slightly away from Hulks attack while supes was shown vibrating past DD's attacks....it's what's shown so plz get over it.

3.No use in debating those Lunatik and Nova examples, he wasn't using super speed in either situation....well unless u wanna count him flying fast on his board and grabbing someone as "combat speed" lol.
Surfer wasn't that far away. I doubt they were even 10 feet from each other. And the term "speed of light" was specifically used.

How did the art positively demonstrate the fact that Supes was vibrating to the point of intangibility?

Of course he was, that's why you've given up and refuse to settle the argument. And yes, grabbing and throwing someone at super speed is combat speed.

And we're still waiting on proof to support your claims that Surfer's reflexes are dulled when he's off his board. Remember what Raoul said about stating your opinion over and over without providing any actual proof...

The Great Galen
Originally posted by darthgoober
Surfer wasn't that far away. I doubt they were even 10 feet from each other. And the term "speed of light" was specifically used.

How did the art positively demonstrate the fact that Supes was vibrating to the point of intangibility?

Of course he was, that's why you've given up and refuse to settle the argument. And yes, grabbing and throwing someone at super speed is combat speed.

And we're still waiting on proof to support your claims that Surfer's reflexes are dulled when he's off his board.

1.Again,dodging projectiles from afar proves what exactly...you're making the claim he can somehow apply it to close quarters in a MA situation?

2. Lunatik didn't use superspeed and neither did SS...he grabbed Nova who wasn't even focused on him, so sneak attack FTW.

3. I always contended that SS has good navigating reflex and raw reflex...just not in combat which is what the thread maker was asking.

darthgoober
Originally posted by The Great Galen
1.Again,dodging projectiles from afar proves what exactly...you're making the claim he can somehow apply it to close quarters in a MA situation?

2. Lunatik didn't use superspeed and neither did SS...he grabbed Nova who wasn't even focused on him, so sneak attack FTW.

3. I always contended that SS has good navigating reflex and raw reflex...just not in combat which is what the thread maker was asking.

1. He dodged at super speed, thus he can dodge at super speed. What's so hard to get about that?

2. Lunatik had "speed lines" when Surfer was dodging him... he was using super speed. And Nova wasn't focused on him because he was moving too fast to for Nova to see... and Nova has super speed.

3. Except against Hulk, Lunatic, Deathurge, and Nova.


And we're STILL waiting on proof.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by darthgoober
1. He dodged at super speed, thus he can dodge at super speed. What's so hard to get about that?

2. Lunatik had "speed lines" when Surfer was dodging him... he was using super speed. And Nova wasn't focused on him because he was moving too fast to for Nova to see... and Nova has super speed.

3. Except against Hulk, Lunatic, Deathurge, and Nova.


And we're STILL waiting on proof.

Really show scans of this supposed"combat superspeed"...really cause knowing you it probably isn't any even remotly like you are describing.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Really show scans of this supposed"combat superspeed"...really cause knowing you it probably isn't any even remotly like you are describing. translation: if a dc character's not doing it =/= superspeed

The Great Galen
SS doesn't have combat superspeed, Goober even conceded this point a long time ago so I don't know why he is arguing now.....

Naija boy
Wait when did the threadstarter state that we are using feats from surfer while he is OFF his board? How does him being on his board disqualify them from being combat feats? This level of foolishness is just sad. sad

darthgoober
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Really show scans of this supposed"combat superspeed"...really cause knowing you it probably isn't any even remotly like you are describing.
Address all my points and provide proof to support your claims that Surfer's reflexes are dulled while he's off his board and we'll talk. You can't go demanding proof when you've repeatedly refused to provide ANY.

The Great Galen
Because he doesn't have combat speed on his board, u can't equate his travel speed as combat speed.

darthgoober
Originally posted by The Great Galen
SS doesn't have combat superspeed, Goober even conceded this point a long time ago so I don't know why he is arguing now.....
No I didn't and if you lie about things I've said again to gain an advantage in a debate I'll report you. I said that Surfer has that kind of speed available, but he doesn't fight like that.

darthgoober
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Because he doesn't have combat speed on his board, u can't equate his travel speed as combat speed.
We're not equating travel speed, we're talking about showing of speed/reflex in combat.

The Great Galen
He doesn't though, he doesn't have movement speed like that...oh he has is linear travel on his boad. He moves like a normal human and always has so plz stop it. Anyhow back to this thread:

Superman
Wonder Woman
Darkseid
Silver Surfer
Thanos
Thor

Taking into account combat related speed and reflex.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by The Great Galen
SS doesn't have combat superspeed, Goober even conceded this point a long time ago so I don't know why he is arguing now..... actually, goob has been hitting you repeatedly with E-gloves for a battlezone duel for months now, you're the one dodging him.

and the "speed advantage" is one of many points he will definitely bring up if you work up the nerve to face him, there was no concession.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by psycho gundam
actually, goob has been hitting you repeatedly with E-gloves for a battlezone duel for months now, you're the one dodging him.

and the "speed advantage" is one of many points he will definitely bring up if you work up the nerve to face him, there was no concession.

I already addressed the battlezone chanllenge months ago, I said if I can open sometime for myself I will consider it. For the most part these boards are to my own discretion, it's time filler and of course for my own amusment as well. What I've been trying to convince Goober of is that SS doesn't have superspeed movement, which he doesn't all he has is board that can travel really fast.

darthgoober
Originally posted by The Great Galen
He doesn't though, he doesn't have movement speed like that...oh he has is linear travel on his boad. He moves like a normal human and always has so plz stop it. Anyhow back to this thread:

Superman
Wonder Woman
Darkseid
Silver Surfer
Thanos
Thor

Taking into account combat related speed and reflex.
Are you going to provide proof or do we need to get the Mods involved? The forum's on thin ice right now so I'd really rather not do that, but I will if you leave me no other option. You've repeatedly made unfounded claims and outright ignored points and evidence provided by others just to aggravate those who disagree with you, and that's just the kind of thing we DON'T need when the vs Forum is under a microscope because the random observer may very well attribute that attitude to others.

Put up a real argument or concede the point.

Badabing
Originally posted by darthgoober
Are you going to provide proof or do we need to get the Mods involved? The forum's on thin ice right now so I'd really rather not do that, but I will if you leave me no other option. You've repeatedly made unfounded claims and outright ignored points and evidence provided by others just to aggravate those who disagree with you, and that's just the kind of thing we DON'T need when the vs Forum is under a microscope because the random observer may very well attribute that attitude to others.

Put up a real arguement or concede the point. When did you return?

badawe

darthgoober
Originally posted by Badabing
When did you return?

badawe
Yesterday. My comp crashed right before Christmas and it took a while to get it back up and running.

psycho gundam
badabing's ever so vigilant i see..... roll eyes (sarcastic)

Starscream M
Originally posted by darthgoober
Yesterday. My comp crashed right before Christmas and it took a while to get it back up and running. wow, how did you survive for so long without internet...

darthgoober
Originally posted by Starscream M
wow, how did you survive for so long without internet...
I smoked more laughing .

The Great Galen
Originally posted by darthgoober
Are you going to provide proof or do we need to get the Mods involved? The forum's on thin ice right now so I'd really rather not do that, but I will if you leave me no other option. You've repeatedly made unfounded claims and outright ignored points and evidence provided by others just to aggravate those who disagree with you, and that's just the kind of thing we DON'T need when the vs Forum is under a microscope because the random observer may very well attribute that attitude to others.

Put up a real arguement or concede the point.

This board is doing pretty good for starters...it's hardly on thin ice. I've already defended and proved my stance, I claimed supes has the superior combat related speed and reflext...which he does. I claimed supes has the fastes movement speed of anyone here...which he does again. The only thing you've done is protract arguments about SS "supposed"superspeed which I simply disagree with...obviously we don't define combat speed in the same terms. If you want to beleive SS has combat speed comparable to supes or even WW then fine....but let's not get the mods involved because I feel this has been civil up to this point, no one is bashing or trolling so let's just leave it as it is.

darthgoober
Originally posted by The Great Galen
This board is doing pretty good for starters...it's hardly on thin ice. I've already defended and proved my stance, I claimed supes has the superior combat related speed and reflext...which he does. I claimed supes has the fastes movement speed of anyone here...which he does again. The only thing you've done is protract arguments about SS "supposed"superspeed which I simply disagree with...obviously we don't define combat speed in the same terms. If you want to beleive SS has combat speed comparable to supes or even WW then fine....but let's not get the mods involved because I feel this has been civil up to this point, no one is bashing or trolling so let's just leave it as it is.
Did you happen to see the "Attention" thread...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t501191.html

...we ARE on thin ice, and at risk of being shut down completely.

You've made repeated claims saying things about Surfer has NO combat speed despite multiple scans proving the contrary and refused to discuss them further when your points are countered. You've repeatedly insinuated and made claims about Surfer's reflexes being dulled while off his board, again without proof. I'm not debating who's reflexes are better between Supes and Surfer, I'm addressing this claim...

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Except he hasn't applied it into a battle and since when does fast reflex trasnlate to fast movement. He has good pilot reflexes which no one will deny, but as it's been explained before MA is a very different kind of animal then navigation. Besides even if he could apply reflex into battle he would still need to apply speed in order for it to be effective.

I've brought up 4 well known instances of Surfer applying speed in battle so yeah, if you insist on being unreasonable we'll make an actual issue of it since...
Originally posted by Raoul
you know bloody well how.

if you have an opinion, then back it up. don't clog up threads by saying the same thing over and over. that's trolling.

Zack Fair
Would be a shame if this forum was closed. This forum was the reason I joined KMC uhuh

The Great Galen
Originally posted by darthgoober
Did you happen to see the "Attention" thread...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t501191.html

...we ARE on thin ice, and at risk of being shut down completely.

You've made repeated claims saying things about Surfer has NO combat speed despite multiple scans proving the contrary and refused to discuss them further when your points are countered. You've repeatedly insinuated and made claims about Surfer's reflexes being dulled while off his board, again without proof. I'm not debating who's reflexes are better between Supes and Surfer, I'm addressing this claim...



I've brought up 4 well known instances of Surfer applying speed in battle so yeah, if you insist on being unreasonable continue as you are we'll make an actual issue of it since...

I can't believe these boards our on thin ice, out of all the comic related vs forums this one is actually the most reasonable/non bias one Iv'e come accross......I don't understand why we are getting shut down for no reason.

Well if these our the end of days let me just say this, the 4 examples you referred to do not constitute superspeed IMO...if you want to believe so then fine but personally I don't find them that impressive or indicators of sueprspeed.

Nihilist
Originally posted by Zack Fair
Would be a shame if this forum was closed. This forum was the reason I joined KMC uhuh the comic v forum is =to the rest of kmc imo

The Great Galen
I hope it doesn't close, this got me back into comics.

darthgoober
Originally posted by The Great Galen
I can't believe these boards our on thin ice, out of all the comic related vs forums this one is actually the most reasonable/non bias one Iv'e come accross......I don't understand why we are getting shut down for no reason.

Well if these our the end of days let me just say this, the 4 examples you referred to do not constitute superspeed IMO...if you want to believe so then fine but personally I don't find them that impressive or indicators of sueprspeed.

That's what happens when people refuse to follow the rules.

He was moving/reacting at super speed, thus he has super speed.

Anyway, last chance to provide proof of or retract your previous claims before I send my PM(since the report button just draws unnecessary attention).

Badabing
Originally posted by psycho gundam
badabing's ever so vigilant i see..... roll eyes (sarcastic) Yes, that's why you're warned for douchery. Thanks.





















badawe

Raoul
guys. we said there was a possiblity of it being closed. we didn't say it would be closed. just do as you normally do. debate, enjoy yourselves, and we'll see...

Naija boy
But wasnt some people "doing as they normally do" the problem in the first place?

The Great Galen
Originally posted by darthgoober
That's what happens when people refuse to follow the rules.

He was moving/reacting at super speed, thus he has super speed.

Anyway, last chance to provide proof of or retract your previous claims before I send my PM(since the report button just draws unnecessary attention).

I have one better, let's agree to disagree....we've been civil so let's not ruin it. The thread should stay open, its a great place to learn about comics and even spice up debating skills.

skyfather
^^^
seems like your bottling it,seeing as goobers owned you.

Raoul
Originally posted by Naija boy
But wasnt some people "doing as they normally do" the problem in the first place?

no.

i could go in to more detail, but not right now...

Originally posted by skyfather
^^^
seems like your bottling it,seeing as goobers owned you.

that's not helping.

Naija boy
Originally posted by Raoul
no.

i could go in to more detail, but not right now...


Aye

The Great Galen
Originally posted by skyfather
^^^
seems like your bottling it,seeing as goobers owned you.

The bash wasn't need, goober and I have different views so let's leave it at that.

skyfather
Originally posted by The Great Galen
The bash wasn't need, goober and I have different views so let's leave it at that. its not a bash,you seem to tell people how it is on many occasions,and when asked provide proof or evidance to back up your claims,you simply ignore it.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by skyfather
its not a bash,you seem to tell people how it is on many occasions,and when asked provide proof or evidance to back up your claims,you simply ignore it.

I already did, I feel Goober has yet to prove his case so instead of dragging it out I'll let him believe whatever he wants to believe.

darthgoober
Originally posted by The Great Galen
I have one better, let's agree to disagree....we've been civil so let's not ruin it. The thread should stay open, its a great place to learn about comics and even spice up debating skills.
Originally posted by The Great Galen
I already did, I feel Goober has yet to prove his case so instead of dragging it out I'll let him believe whatever he wants to believe.
If you want to agree to disagree without actually discussing it or providing evidence that's fine, your opinion is your own so keep it. But if I see anymore bogus statements like these...

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Except he hasn't applied it into a battle and since when does fast reflex trasnlate to fast movement. He has good pilot reflexes which no one will deny, but as it's been explained before MA is a very different kind of animal then navigation. Besides even if he could apply reflex into battle he would still need to apply speed in order for it to be effective.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
SS has been touched by characters at a great distance already, seems that his reflex goes out the window when he isn't flying.

... that aren't accompanied by proof or a valid argument of some sort, I'll personally inform Raz and the Globals about your day to day debating tactics and let them know that you're one of the members who needs to be put under a microscope. I won't even let you know I'm going to do it next time, I'll just send the PM that I already have written up about it.

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by fangirl101
Overall Combat Speed

DS-Anyone who can blitz Superman is either the flash or quite uber.
Superman
Surfer
WW
Thanos
Thor

Reflexes
WW. No one in comics but a flash is beating her in this dept.
Thanos- He pwns heralds flying thru hyperspace
Superman/Surfer
DS
Thor

I actually kinda agree with this list. The only thing I would change is make Superman 1st and DS 2nd as superman as shown combat many more times then DS imo. Besides that it looks about right

carver9
Wonder woman has so many on panel proof of being much faster then any one on this forum

guy222
Happy Birthday buddy

Mindset
Originally posted by carver9
Wonder woman has so many on panel proof of being much faster then any one on this forum Well she is a fictionally character, ofc she's faster than us.

That's not a fair comparison though. sad

The Great Galen
Originally posted by darthgoober
If you want to agree to disagree without actually discussing it or providing evidence that's fine, your opinion is your own so keep it. But if I see anymore bogus statements like these...





... that aren't accompanied by proof or a valid argument of some sort, I'll personally inform Raz and the Globals about your day to day debating tactics and let them know that you're one of the members who needs to be put under a microscope. I won't even let you know I'm going to do it next time, I'll just send the PM that I already have written up about it.

You define combat speed differently from mine, as I've said I don't consider SS combat speed comparable or approaching that of Supes or WW....if you want to believe otherwise then so be it. Let's not get the mods involved because no one is bashing, just accept the facts for what they are and move on....thanks.

tjcoady
According to Batman, and admitted to by Superman, Diana has faster reflexes in battle than Superman does.

darthgoober
Originally posted by The Great Galen
You define combat speed differently from mine, as I've said I don't consider SS combat speed comparable or approaching that of Supes or WW....if you want to believe otherwise then so be it. Let's not get the mods involved because no one is bashing, just accept the facts for what they are and move on....thanks.
As I said, as long as the claims you make are by proof we'll be fine. Believe what you want, but don't try debating it unless you're ready to provide an actual case... thanks.

Anyway, if you've given up on arguing your initial claim I guess we're done here.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by darthgoober
As I said, as long as the claims you make are by proof we'll be fine. Believe what you want, but don't try debating it unless you're ready to provide an actual case... thanks.

Anyway, if you've given up on arguing your initial claim I guess we're done here.

I don't think SS has combat speed, at least not superspeed anyways....so I've heard you're argument and I will respectfully disagree.

darthgoober
Originally posted by The Great Galen
I don't think SS has combat speed, at least not superspeed anyways....so I've heard you're argument and I will respectfully disagree.
Well just let me know if you're ever in the mood to pick up this conversation again by resuming your arguments about Surfer not having combat speed because I'm still waiting for some of my points to be addressed and will happily resume the topic with you. Just remember to have proof ready so we can have a real discussion and don't have any issues smile .

Enyalus
I like Fangirl's way of breaking this down...

Overall Combat Speed

Surfer
Superman
Wonder Woman
Darkseid
Thanos
Thor

Reflexes

Wonder Woman
Thanos
Superman
Surfer
DS/Thor (Not entirely sure here.)

Originally posted by fangirl101
Thanos has been hurt by Claws.

Are you talking about when he had the Infinity Gauntlet? Or in the non-canon DC vs. Marvel? Or something else entirely? Because he wasn't injured during the former, and the latter is inadmissable.

tjcoady
The first time, he allowed Wolvie's claws to hit him, just to show off. Look at the art.

Zack Fair
It is safe to say IMHO that the IG ordeal with Wolverine was the very definition of PIS.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by darthgoober
Well just let me know if you're ever in the mood to pick up this conversation again by resuming your arguments about Surfer not having combat speed because I'm still waiting for some of my points to be addressed and will happily resume the topic with you. Just remember to have proof ready so we can have a real discussion and don't have any issues smile .

My issue is debating that SS doesn't have ultalize superspeed in combat, which he doesn't any even you admitted that point.

darthgoober
Originally posted by The Great Galen
My issue is debating that SS doesn't have ultalize superspeed in combat, which he doesn't any even you admitted that point.
I was referring to issues with the Mods if I'm forced to get them involved directly, not your own personal issues with the topic.

Anyway, have you decided that you'd rather debate the point than agree to disagree since it seems like you're continuing to debate Surfer's lack of combat speed? I have no problem if you'd like to resume the discussion, just remember what I said before about it...

psycho gundam
just make a battlezone thread and put your points in it, if he shows up he can defend himself, if not it's an undeniable concession.

Badabing
I wanted to address some comments made in this thread. Sorry for the delay but I wanted input from other mods. Basically, there are 2 choices when it comes to certain situations. Use the ignore or the report. PMing Raz and global mods isn't an option when regarding the disagreement in this thread. This is from the thread I posted a few weeks back....

"People also seem to disregard the ignore feature. If you can't agree or get along with a poster then use the ignore. It cuts down on frivolous reports and unnecessary warnings. It's not our fault you don't use the ignore and continue to have the same arguments with the same people. There are DC fans and there are Marvel fans. If you can't get along or agree to disagree then use the ignore function.

We are not here to referee versus threads, choose sides on who started what or ban anyone who some suspects as a sock. If there's a problem with someone breaking the rules then let us deal with it."

If there's a disagreement then post your "proof". If another poster won't listen then use the ignore function. We tried to be a bit more
strict but it only led to frivolous reports and the VS Forum gaining even more negative opinions. It's up to the posters to ignore people with whom they can't agree.

I saw nothing which broke the rules in this thread. Bottom line, if you can't get along then use the ignore.

Mindset
reported

I'm Bran
You just made me want to read this thread now.

EDIT: lol, Galen posted about half of the posts on every page...

Rage.Of.Olympus
Superman
Silver Surfer/Diana/Darkseid
Thor
Thanos

Superman, Silver Surfer, are the fastest in raw speed (Thor with his hammer is probably the third fastest as he can travel at speeds twice as fast as light with no problem)....

Combat wise, Diana and Clark have the most showings but more showings isn't everything as Silver Surfer doesn't impliment combat speed nearly as much but based on his calculating abilities etc. he should be at the very least on par with Diana on timing and be superior overall.

Silver Surfer, Darkseid, Thor etc. have impressive showings.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Good Night KMC Boards....

The Great Galen
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Superman
Diana/Darkseid/Silver Surfer
Thor
Thanos

Superman, Silver Surfer, are the fastest in raw speed (Thor with his hammer is probably the third fastest as he can travel at speeds twice as fast as light with no problem)....

Combat wise, Diana and Clark have the most showings.

Silver Surfer, Darkseid, Thor etc. have impressive showings, but they have more speed in terms of traveling from point A to point B.

Actually the fastest by far would be supes as he has tthe fastest movement speed. Movement speed is the foundation that is directly the cause for all functions of speed that would include travel,combat and basically any and all activities. Supes has been stated as being only second to Wally in this regard, from the list provided no one really comes close with the exception of Diana.

Characters like SS,Thanos,Darkseid and Thor don't really have superspeed movement, which is why they fight and travel at different speeds. There flight speed/combat speeds are the cause of 2 seperate external sources.....this really isn't the case with supes. To put it simply, that is what seperates speedsters from bricks.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Badabing
I wanted to address some comments made in this thread. Sorry for the delay but I wanted input from other mods. Basically, there are 2 choices when it comes to certain situations. Use the ignore or the report. PMing Raz and global mods isn't an option when regarding the disagreement in this thread. This is from the thread I posted a few weeks back....

"People also seem to disregard the ignore feature. If you can't agree or get along with a poster then use the ignore. It cuts down on frivolous reports and unnecessary warnings. It's not our fault you don't use the ignore and continue to have the same arguments with the same people. There are DC fans and there are Marvel fans. If you can't get along or agree to disagree then use the ignore function.

We are not here to referee versus threads, choose sides on who started what or ban anyone who some suspects as a sock. If there's a problem with someone breaking the rules then let us deal with it."

If there's a disagreement then post your "proof". If another poster won't listen then use the ignore function. We tried to be a bit more
strict but it only led to frivolous reports and the VS Forum gaining even more negative opinions. It's up to the posters to ignore people with whom they can't agree.

I saw nothing which broke the rules in this thread. Bottom line, if you can't get along then use the ignore.

Wait... what? How can you say that you didn't see in any rules broken when this is strait from the rules...


"No Bias Claims
"Batman can beat Thor because he's cooler!" That's an example of how not to debate. We would like to see the rationale behind any claims that one character can beat the other rather than a claim based on popularity and subjective bias.
Also, we insist that all claims be backed up by evidence from canon sources. If you claim that Spiderman is stronger than Superman, then you have to prove it ."


...and this thread features post's like these...

Originally posted by The Great Galen
SS has been touched by characters at a great distance already, seems that his reflex goes out the window when he isn't flying.

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Because he doesn't have combat speed on his board, u can't equate his travel speed as combat speed.

...without proof to support the claim ever being shown?



And according to pr's latest post in the Forum rules(this is just an except, not the entire post)...

"If you spot someone GENUINELY trolling i.e. making inflammatory statements, blatantly lying about something on panel, then report them. Do not accuse someone of trolling just because you don't like what they say. That's what the Ignore Function is for. If you are going to be at odds with someone, and don't want to have to interact with them, don't report them secretly hoping they'll get banned or in trouble. Why? It won't work. Put them on ignore instead. It saves both members and moderators a lot of hassle"
...lying about what happens on-panel qualifies as Trolling. And seeing as how statements like these are constantly being made...

Originally posted by The Great Galen
Except he hasn't applied it into a battle and since when does fast reflex trasnlate to fast movement. He has good pilot reflexes which no one will deny, but as it's been explained before MA is a very different kind of animal then navigation. Besides even if he could apply reflex into battle he would still need to apply speed in order for it to be effective.

...despite examples being brought to light repeatedly, and are followed up with statements like these AFTER those examples have been pointed out...

Originally posted by The Great Galen
He doesn't use it as frequently or to the same effect as Supes or WW by quite a degree...and the examples you brought up are hardly examples of using speed. SS uses speed when travelling...during fights he does not.


Originally posted by The Great Galen
He doesn't though, he doesn't have movement speed like that...oh he has is linear travel on his boad. He moves like a normal human and always has so plz stop it. Anyhow back to this thread:

Superman
Wonder Woman
Darkseid
Silver Surfer
Thanos
Thor

Taking into account combat related speed and reflex.

...I think it's save to say that someone's been "blatantly lying". His point isn't that Surfer doesn't blitz or that Surfer's reflexes are<Supes's(which would just be a difference of opinion's), it's that Surfer doesn't have ANY actual super speed and that his speed never even factors into his fights regardless of what these scans show us to the contrary...


Surfer using speed OFF his board while in combat against the Hulk...
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/2742/talestoastonish093submakz0.jpg

Surfer using super speed off his board while in h2h combat against Lunatik(notice Lunatik's "speedlines" in the panel just below the narrative statement about Surfer "easily evading" his every blow)...
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/MCP175p12.jpg

Surfer hitting lightspeed in combat while on his board...
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/SilverSurfer_Rune-14.jpg

Surfer grabbing Nova by the throat and throwing him with such speed that Nova questions whether or not he just got hit by an energy blast(and Nova has "DC style" super speed)...
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/6331/nova13dcp029kv7.jpg
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/5162/scan0010ct3.jpg
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/8756/scan0011pd5.jpg

Surfer uses multiple energy blast against multiple targets while dodging multiple incoming blast while moving in a non strait line manner, and all in a single panel...
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/1935/silversurfer199003316ik9.jpg


I have no problem with someone disagreeing with me as to HOW impressive those showings of combat speed are(because that kind of thing is pretty subjective) but that's not what he's doing, he's just ignores them and says things like "Surfer doesn't use speed during his fights". How is violating either of those rules less severe than violating the "No Non-Canon Sources" rule? Why bother even having rules if we're just supposed to put everybody on ignore and not make an issue of them being broken?


I'm not trying to start a problem or anything so I'll drop it publicly and take it to PM after this, the only reason I'm posting rather than PMing it initially is because I'm not the only one curious as to the reasoning of it all and I didn't figure you'd want to to deal with PM's to multiple members if you could answer them all at once in a post(but if you want I can tell them to PM and ask you, and you can delete this post if that would be better).

Starscream M
Surfer does use speed, but then so does everyone. It's all a matter of how much speed and how one uses speed. Spiderman uses speed too...so does Wolverine, etc etc. But their use of speed cannot be compared with the one a speed-blitzer uses speed (ie Flash, Superman). Now I think Surfer uses speed in his board ram attacks...but he never really does what I would consider a speed blitz. just my opinion.

shokosugi
Originally posted by Spire
Superman
Wonder Woman
Darkseid
Thanos
Silver Surfer
Thor

thumb up thumb up

Badabing
Darth, SS hasn't had the most showings. I've read a fair amount and haven't seen his combat speed feats. And quoting newer rules that I helped out with isn't much help. I also see the you forgot to quote my backseat modding post.

We're not here to ref matches. I saw nothing wrong with Great Galen's posts. If for some reason you can't convince him or get along then use the ignore function. If someone ignores a scan and continues to say nuh uh after their opinion has been refuted then use the report function.

I looked at your scans and didn't see any hyper reactions or speed during combat. I've seen Bats and Cap move as fast and faster. I also haven't seen it from SS in any issues I've read which he appeared. It's your job to back claims or disputes, not my job to call matches.

I don't warn people for having an opinion. So use the ignore and report when necessary and check out the backseat modding post in the rules.

kgkg
Originally posted by Badabing
I looked at your scans and didn't see any hyper reactions or speed during combat. I've seen Bats and Cap move as fast and faster. I also haven't seen it from SS in any issues I've read which he appeared. It's your job to back claims or disputes, not my job to call matches.
Different interpretation maybe?

Badabing
Originally posted by kgkg
Different interpretation maybe? That's what it always comes down to. I know SS is fast and has high stats all around. I wouldn't argue that he does not have fast reflexes either. But the thread is set up to show feats basically. So what I think and what I can prove are not the same. It's unfortunate that Superman and Wonder Woman will have the most feats because they have more showings.

Starscream M
Originally posted by Badabing
It's unfortunate that Superman and Wonder Woman will have the most feats because they have more showings. why is that unfortunate? confused stick out tongue

Badabing
Originally posted by Starscream M
why is that unfortunate? confused stick out tongue It irks me that Marvel has kickass top tier characters but they're "written down" compared to DC's top tiers. I would like to see Thor just slap the piss outta someone using his bio noted "godlike speed" or see SS just once not contemplate a situation or talk first and simply wtfpwn a character. uhuh @ Marvel sometimes.

skygunner41
Originally posted by Badabing
It irks me that Marvel has kickass top tier characters but they're "written down" compared to DC's top tiers. I would like to see Thor just slap the piss outta someone using his bio noted "godlike speed" or see SS just once not contemplate a situation or talk first and simply wtfpwn a character. uhuh @ Marvel sometimes.


Maybe that the way the char is suppose to be.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Badabing
I looked at your scans and didn't see any hyper reactions or speed during combat. I've seen Bats and Cap move as fast and faster. I also haven't seen it from SS in any issues I've read which he appeared. It's your job to back claims or disputes, not my job to call matches.
"I've seen Bats and Cap move as fast and faster." no expression

"this can't be life"

- val

Silent Guardian
Superman/Silver Surfer

Wonderwoman

Thor

Darkside/Thanos

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Silent Guardian
Superman/Silver Surfer

Wonderwoman

Thor

Darkside/Thanos i can agree with this.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by darthgoober
Rant

Okay darth, let's address this civily since I don't have any real problems with you and since I do respect you're debating style and even agree with you're opinion most of the time. I quantify "combat superspeed"as the ability to ultalize superspeed in a combat situation...pretty straight forward concept but it's also very subjective. That's why I try my best to implement a specific criteria, it may not apply for every poster but it's what I personally use when debating. First, let me start off with my tenants for"superspeed" in combat:

Initiation-The speed in which a character can initiats a attack agaisnt his opponent.
Mobolity-The speed in which a character can move to/move agaisnt his opponent.
Evasion-The speed in which a character can evade and avoid his opponent.
Interception-The speed in which a character can block and intercept his opponent's attacks.

Now that is a pretty fair criteria I would think, it covers pretty much all aspects of combat and speed in relation to them. Now from what you've shown me from SS....it's pretty cleary marvel did not assign SS with this particular skill. Supes on the other hand is a brawler type, it's only natural this would be a very prominent aspect with him. Not to mention supes movement speed is second only to wally, and movement speed is the foundation for all functions of speed.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by The Great Galen
Initiation-The speed in which a character can initiats a attack agaisnt his opponent.
Mobolity-The speed in which a character can move to/move agaisnt his opponent.
Evasion-The speed in which a character can evade and avoid his opponent.
Interception-The speed in which a character can block and intercept his opponent's attacks.
the scans goob posted pretty much cover all those criteria to the letter. erm if anything, it may come down to the surfer's mindset being more passive for 90% of his on-panel career. now that he's back to being galactus' herald, his "willingness" to quickly overwhelm opponents (see nova) is more president in his battle strategy.

after all norrin is a pacifist, his whole character is based around saving life at all costs, without his personality dominating his actions, the surfer is a completely different guy.

The Great Galen
Originally posted by psycho gundam
the scans goob posted pretty much cover all those criteria to the letter. erm if anything, it may come down to the surfer's mindset being more passive for 90% of his on-panel career. now that he's back to being galactus' herald, his "willingness" to quickly overwhelm opponents (see nova) is more president in his battle strategy.

after all norrin is a pacifist, his whole character is based around saving life at all costs, without his personality dominating his actions, the surfer is a completely different guy.

SS has done all those things...as have most characters. I'm arguing if he's done it while performing at superspeed. I'm not really sure if SS even has superspeed movement, thats typically only a attribute we see from speedsters.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by The Great Galen
SS has done all those things...as have most characters. I'm arguing if he's done it while performing at superspeed. I'm not really sure if SS even has superspeed movement, thats typically only a attribute we see from speedsters. this is starting to hurt my frontal lobe now....... ok, the surfer actually gave a quantitative speed for his movement: transcending lightspeed.

Silent Guardian
are we reall debating this. On his board surfer can travel faster than light.

Badabing
Guys, I'm not sure what the confusion is all about. This isn't about how fast SS can travel, it's about how fast he can hit in H2H. With all due respect to Goob, his scans did not show Silver Surfer hitting someone at high speed. Now given Surfer's power set I'm inclined to think he has super speed reactions but I've personally never seen them used in H2H. These are the types of scans which would be nice to see regarding SS.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/DC/DC%20Scans/th_SupermanandCyborg.jpghttp://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/DC/DC%20Scans/th_combatspeedts0.jpghttp://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/DC/DC%20Scans/th_351yc.jpghttp://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/DC/DC%20Scans/th_Untitled-Scanned-03-29.jpg

kgkg
Originally posted by Badabing
Guys, I'm not sure what the confusion is all about. With all due respect to Goob, his scans did not show Silver Surfer hitting someone at high speed. Now given Surfer's power set I'm inclined to think he has super speed reactions but I've personally never seen them used in H2H. These are the types of scans which would be nice to see regarding SS.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/DC/DC%20Scans/th_SupermanandCyborg.jpghttp://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/DC/DC%20Scans/th_combatspeedts0.jpghttp://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/DC/DC%20Scans/th_351yc.jpghttp://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/DC/DC%20Scans/th_Untitled-Scanned-03-29.jpg Combat does not have to be H2H

Surfer's main attacks are energy blast he is not going to go h2h Superman style.

Badabing
Originally posted by kgkg
Combat does not have to be H2H

Surfer's main attacks are energy blast he is not going to go h2h Superman style. facepalm

Read the opening post.

Originally posted by Starscream M
Rank the following top-tiers according to their level of combat speed/reflex from fastest to slowest.

Superman

Wonder Woman

Darkseid

Silver Surfer

Thor

Thanos

Mindset
op doesn't say anything about h2h

kgkg
Originally posted by Badabing
facepalm

Read the opening post. I don't see H2H listed wink

Mindset
Originally posted by kgkg
I did don't see H2H listed wink lol

kgkg
Originally posted by Mindset
lol I don't get it no expression confused

Mindset
You don't get it, or you did don't get it?

Just sounds funny when you say it out loud.

I'm Bran
Originally posted by kgkg
I don't get it no expression confused A common internet phrase for 'laugh out loud'.

kgkg
Originally posted by Mindset
You don't get it, or you did don't get it? ohh I see let me edit lol

Mindset
Originally posted by I'm Bran
A common internet phrase for 'laugh out loud'. laughing out loud

darthgoober
Originally posted by Badabing
Guys, I'm not sure what the confusion is all about. This isn't about how fast SS can travel, it's about how fast he can hit in H2H. With all due respect to Goob, his scans did not show Silver Surfer hitting someone at high speed. Now given Surfer's power set I'm inclined to think he has super speed reactions but I've personally never seen them used in H2H. These are the types of scans which would be nice to see regarding SS.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/DC/DC%20Scans/th_SupermanandCyborg.jpghttp://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/DC/DC%20Scans/th_combatspeedts0.jpghttp://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/DC/DC%20Scans/th_351yc.jpghttp://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/DC/DC%20Scans/th_Untitled-Scanned-03-29.jpg
H2H isn't specified in the OP, and ranged combat is just as valid as H2H without that stipulation. So this...

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/1935/silversurfer199003316ik9.jpg

...is a perfectly legitimate example of combat speed for this thread's purposes because I believe it's about OVERALL combat speed, not H2H specifically.

Spire
Originally posted by darthgoober
H2H isn't specified in the OP, and ranged combat is just as valid as H2H without that stipulation. So this...

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/1935/silversurfer199003316ik9.jpg

...is a perfectly legitimate example of combat speed for this thread's purposes because I believe it's about OVERALL combat speed, not H2H specifically.

How fast is he going?

Also I don't think anyone is disputing Silver Surfer's board is fast.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Spire
How fast is he going?

Also I don't think anyone is disputing Silver Surfer's board is fast.
He's dodging/initiating multiple attacks, that's more than just his board being fast...

Spire
Originally posted by darthgoober
He's dodging/initiating multiple attacks, that's more than just his board being fast...

How fast is he going?

darthgoober
Originally posted by Spire
How fast is he going?
Don't know for sure, it's an unquantified feat(just like Supes's)...

Spire
Originally posted by darthgoober
Don't know for sure, it's an unquantified feat(just like Supes's)...

It's fairly obvious that he is going 5...

Also the Superman scans clearly show after image.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Spire
It's fairly obvious that he is going 5...

Also the Superman scans clearly show after image. and surfer's is a solid after image, making it look like several surfers. > transparent after image. stick out tongue

id369

Starscream M

Spire
Originally posted by Starscream M
do you think Surfer could defend against a speed blitz attack by Superman?

Are you serious? Did you not see the scan? Silver Surfer standing on his board can go 5.

id369
Originally posted by Starscream M
do you think Surfer could defend against a speed blitz attack by Superman?

Yes I do. I think he would try to erect a force field or to shoot him with cosmic energy.

But if he decided to go on pure slug fest, he would be overwhelmed.

psycho gundam

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