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Okay so who wins? Mr.Mxy who has virtually unlimited power, or AM the being who made destroy universes to the point that there was only one left

Mxy actually destroyed the whole of DC creation during World's Funnest - and did it with less difficulty than AM.

Mxy ftw.

Originally posted by Galan007
Mxy actually destroyed the whole of DC creation during World's Funnest - and did it with less difficulty than AM.

Mxy ftw. damn I though it was a single universe

Nope, t'was the whole of DC creation.

AM kicks him, he has been koed by much less.

Originally posted by Galan007
Mxy actually destroyed the whole of DC creation during World's Funnest - and did it with less difficulty than AM.

Mxy ftw. i didnt think WF was canon shrug

Destroying universes is one thing, but does he possess the power to affect AM?

I mean, Spectre essentially destroyed and recreated the start of everything as a side effect of focusing all his power towards AM, to bring him down.

Originally posted by Nihilist
i didnt think WF was canon shrug Aside from hypertime which is canonical, Mxy/Bat-Mite visited the DCU immediately after the events of COIE... And there was only one COIE.

Mxy

Originally posted by I'm Bran
Destroying universes is one thing, but does he possess the power to affect AM?

I mean, Spectre essentially destroyed and recreated the start of everything as a side effect of focusing all his power towards AM, to bring him down. That's the same things I was just wondering. We know Mxy can deliver creation destroying/creating blasts - but we also know that's not enough to destroy AM.

I dunno, I was just going by what they both did.

Didn't Mxy imprison the Spectre?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Didn't Mxy imprison the Spectre? Joker with Mxy's power beat/replaced/warped/imprisoned Spectre - and Mxy himself beat Spectre a few times during WF.

but didn't specter depower mxy at one point? (maybe Presence felt generous that day)

also iirc the 5D imps sealed of their dimension because AM was threatening it so this means that even mxy and his folks feared the AM

Wouldn't the Spectres in WF be the manifestations of the real Spectre that he makes?

iirc

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
but didn't specter depower mxy at one point? (maybe Presence felt generous that day) Mxy was still able to use some of his former powers. To me it seemed like Spectre just made Mxy forget certain things..

At any rate, all Mxy had to do was return to the 5th-D, and *poof* all of his powers were back.

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
also iirc the 5D imps sealed of their dimension because AM was threatening it so this means that even mxy and his folks feared the AM Still don't know what that threat was/is.

Originally posted by I'm Bran
Wouldn't the Spectres in WF be the manifestations of the real Spectre that he makes?

iirc As far as I know, they were the 'real' Spectre..

Originally posted by Galan007
As far as I know, they were the 'real' Spectre.. In WF?

Because that's impossible, no? Everytime they came across one, they 'killed' one. And why would Spectre travel to a new universe in different time periods as if nothing happened?

Originally posted by Galan007
Mxy was still able to use some of his former powers. To me it seemed like Spectre just made Mxy forget certain things.. yeah but specter also made an assault on the 5th dimension itself
(or I'm mixing up with somethin else )

Well is Spectre almost as powerful as AM? If so wouldn't Mxy be either equal or more powerful as then AM?

Yes, A>B>C logic, but that all I got when it comes to beings this powerful.

Originally posted by I'm Bran
In WF?

Because that's impossible, no? Everytime they came across one, they 'killed' one. And why would Spectre travel to a new universe in different time periods as if nothing happened? I don't think Spectre can be 'killed' in the true sense, but meh.

But yeah, I've never heard of a 'prime' Spectre that possesses more power than any of the others.

Originally posted by SoulDevourer
yeah but specter also made an assault on the 5th dimension itself
(or I'm mixing up with somethin else ) No.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Well is Spectre almost as powerful as AM? If so wouldn't Mxy be either equal or more powerful as then AM?

Yes, A>B>C logic, but that all I got when it comes to beings this powerful. No, an amplified Spectre could not kill AM and was himself put in a coma-tose state, so no, I would not say Spectre is as powerful as AM.

Originally posted by Galan007
I don't think Spectre can be 'killed' in the true sense, but meh.

But yeah, I've never heard of a 'prime' Spectre that possesses more power than any of the others.

No. That's why I had the marks.

They say that Jordan Spectre (main universe) is the Prime Spectre:
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/3937/thespectrev41105kq3.jpg

*Insert issue 15 as well*

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
No, an amplified Spectre could not kill AM and was himself put in a coma-tose state, so no, I would not say Spectre is as powerful as AM.
Well in my defense I did say almost.

Originally posted by I'm Bran
That's why I had the marks.

They say that Jordan Spectre (main universe) is the Prime Spectre:
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/3937/thespectrev41105kq3.jpg

*Insert issue 15 as well* Cool, so there is only 1 'true' Spectre (dubbed Spectre-Prime.) However, the scan also says that each aspect of Spectre still possesses his full authority. So Mxy/Bat-Mite owning Spectre was equally as impressive each and every time they did it.

Originally posted by Galan007
Cool, so there is only 1 'true' Spectre (dubbed Spectre-Prime.) However, the scan also says that each aspect of Spectre still possesses his full authority. So Mxy/Bat-Mite owning Spectre was equally as impressive each and every time they did it. The Spectre in the Tangent Universe doesn't seem to.

Originally posted by Juntai
The Spectre in the Tangent Universe doesn't seem to. The same one who was getting owned by Tangent Jade/Obsidian, and had to be saved by the Flashs'?

And I thought that version was tech-powered anyway?

AM

Originally posted by Galan007
Cool, so there is only 1 'true' Spectre (dubbed Spectre-Prime.) However, the scan also says that each aspect of Spectre still possesses his full authority. So Mxy/Bat-Mite owning Spectre was equally as impressive each and every time they did it. The same arc had Spectre absorbing a bunch of other Spectre's, and spitting them out (although it was because there was too much... like 100's of Spectres), and he was also able to fight off a bunch of them himself.

They were also called fragments in the same arc...

Etc.

Those Spectres' were acting independently from Spectre-Prime's own will - they went rogue. That's why he tried to absorb them in the first place, iirc. That said, I wouldn't call that instance a full proof way to gauge an aspect's 'true' power. Especially when the scan specifically says an aspect of Spectre (operating under Spectre-Prime's will, I'd assume) still possesses his full authority. *shrug*

Originally posted by Galan007
Those Spectres' were acting independently from Spectre-Prime's own will - they went rogue. That's why he tried to absorb them in the first place, iirc. That said, I wouldn't call that instance a full proof way to gauge an aspect's 'true' power. Especially when the scan specifically says an aspect of Spectre (operating under Spectre-Prime's will, I'd assume) still possesses his full authority. *shrug* Authority = Power?

Originally posted by I'm Bran
Authority = Power? In Spectre's case, his authority = Divine vengence.... So, yes.

Mxy for the win

Mxy is NOT stronger than The Spectre.

Those times Mxy defeated Spectre is because Spectre has not merged with The Logoz.

Also, 5D imps are NOT exempt from The Presence's judgment.
Spectre can kill 5D imps if The Presence so wishes to.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
Mxy is NOT stronger than The Spectre. Mxy has owned Spectre several times, Joker with Mxy's power owned Spectre, Bat-Mite (just a part of Mxy's power) owned Spectre, Qwsp (a 5-D Imp roughly equal to Thunderbolt) owned Spectre.

I think it's safe to say that overall, 5-D power > Spectre.

Originally posted by Galan007
Mxy has owned Spectre several times, Joker with Mxy's power owned Spectre, Bat-Mite (just a part of Mxy's power) owned Spectre, Qwsp (a 5-D Imp roughly equal to Thunderbolt) owned Spectre.

I think it's safe to say that overall, 5-D power > Spectre.
What if The Spectre would've merged with The Logoz in those said fights?
Would the outcome still be the same?

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
What if The Spectre would've merged with The Logoz in those said fights?
Would the outcome still be the same? What if? What if the Imps weren't even using an infinitesimal micro-fraction of their full power all the times they've owned Spectre? srsly

Based on what we've actually seen, 5-D power > Spectre (in general) - and that's not a low showing by any means, we're talking about beings who can retcon (among so much more) on a whim, here.

As Qwsp said; "I move freely through time AND Hypertime"... I can penetrate your reality at any level and control it."

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
What if The Spectre would've merged with The Logoz in those said fights?
Would the outcome still be the same? The bottom line is Mxy can and has beaten the spectre. If you want to amp the spectre it seems like you are trying to get him the w.

edit

Well it also depends. Spectre when powered by the presence/word, he is almost unbeatable. However, AM did beat him. So at best I would say Mxy>=AM

There are no alternate Universe versions of Spectre throughout creation since he is singular, so it might be possible (and likely) that the ones we see throughout creation are aspects. Now whether they are all equal in power, not at all, imo.

cartoon character ftw

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Well it also depends. Spectre when powered by the presence/word, he is almost unbeatable. However, AM did beat him. So at best I would say Mxy>=AM

Isn't even lame that after stating that the Spectre is "powered by the presence/word" you still have to put an "almost" in that phrase?

Originally posted by Galan007
In Spectre's case, his authority = Divine vengence.... So, yes. So then that must mean the alternate Spectre's are just as powerful?

Also, they have the same authority, meaning they are allowed to do everything Spectre can (taking vengeance), but I didn't see an instance where they had the same power levels.

As well as us seeing a difference in levels all through out that arc. And a Spectre dying and returning to Jordan... and them calling Jordan the divine source that birthed them all...

Originally posted by I'm Bran
So then that must mean the alternate Spectre's are just as powerful? If they are all able to enact the same authority (which is apparently the case,) then yes.

Originally posted by Bentley
Isn't even lame that after stating that the Spectre is "powered by the presence/word" you still have to put an "almost" in that phrase?
Well if he was unbeatable, he would have defeat AM. He didn't; he only weakened him.

Originally posted by Galan007
If they are all able to enact the same authority (which is apparently the case,) then yes. Right. And what happened in the issues, means... nothing?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Well if he was unbeatable, he would have defeat AM. He didn't; he only weakened him.

Yep, the thing is they still equate him to the Living Tribunal.

Originally posted by Bentley
Yep, the thing is they still equate him to the Living Tribunal.
Who is they?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Who is they?


There was kind of a forum consensus about it at a given time, just check the LT vs Spectre thread.

Originally posted by Bentley
There was kind of a forum consensus about it at a given time, just check the LT vs Spectre thread.
Why is that relevant?

Originally posted by I'm Bran
Right. And what happened in the issues, means... nothing? The issue where the 'prime' Spectre was fighting a bunch of his rogue aspects?

Originally posted by Galan007
The issue where the 'prime' Spectre was fighting a bunch of his rogue aspects? Yes, where he was more powerful when they had the same authority as him.

Originally posted by I'm Bran
Yes, where he was more powerful when they had the same authority as him. iirc, wasn't it was stated that those aspects were acting independently from the 'prime' Spectre's own will (which is why they went rogue in the first place?) If so, that wouldn't really be a very good instance to gauge a 'regular/normal' aspect's powa imo.

Originally posted by Galan007
iirc, wasn't it was stated that those aspects were acting independently from the 'prime' Spectre's own will (which is why they went rogue in the first place?) If so, that wouldn't really be a very good instance to gauge a 'regular/normal' aspect's powa imo. And what would this equate into?

Because 'Prime' Spectre pretty much acts independently. And unless God is really pissed at him, that has nothing to do with his power.

Either way, Aspect = Source.

*arguments*

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Why is that relevant?

It isn't I was pointing it out.

Mxy.

I guess some people see to think Mxy is like the Pre-rect Beyonder who was more powerful than LT, IIRC.

My guess is, Mxy is an innoncent, almost childlike char.
So why should DCs-GOD (=DC Writers) allow Spectre (his Vengeance) to punish the imp? After all the DC God was shown to have humor, at least in an Lobo comic^^.
So he won't allow the Spectre to do anything to the imp. However, should the imp stop to playing with reality and murder or destroy in an cruel fashion, like Darkside, so that God empowers Spectre to punish him, I don't think that he would last longer then 1 panel .

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I guess some people see to think Mxy is like the Pre-rect Beyonder who was more powerful than LT, IIRC.

My guess is, Mxy is an innoncent, almost childlike char.
So why should DCs-GOD (=DC Writers) allow Spectre (his Vengeance) to punish the imp? After all the DC God was shown to have humor, at least in an Lobo comic^^.
So he won't allow the Spectre to do anything to the imp. However, should the imp stop to playing with reality and murder or destroy in an cruel fashion, like Darkside, so that God empowers Spectre to punish him, I don't think that he would last longer then 1 panel .
You mean like Emperor Joker

Originally posted by xJLxKing
You mean like Emperor Joker

Which was just an part of the game without real consequences^^

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Which was just an part of the game without real consequences^^
He destroyed every universe and recreated but with a snap of his finger.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
He destroyed every universe and recreated but with a snap of his finger.

And after the Story of the Emperor Joker everything was exactly as before, like nothing happend... that means, nothing happend^^.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
And after the Story of the Emperor Joker everything was exactly as before, like nothing happend... that means, nothing happend^^.
That's stupid. So nothing happened with Abraxas, Thanos with IG, HOTU, or other characters like that? It happened because we saw it and we read it.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
That's stupid. So nothing happened with Abraxas, Thanos with IG, HOTU, or other characters like that? It happened because we saw it and we read it.

You say it, HOTU, nothing happend, because it was Marvel-Gods plan all along. It happend so that someone might get an insight.

The Ways of God are Inscrutable. To use simpler words .

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
You say it, HOTU, nothing happend, because it was Marvel-Gods plan all along. It happend so that someone might get an insight.

The Ways of God are Inscrutable. To use simpler words .
Oh okay so nothing happened. I understand, so AM never happened, and Superman never happened. Nothing! Am I not correct?

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Oh okay so nothing happened. I understand, so AM never happened, and Superman never happened. Nothing! Am I not correct?

No you are not, you have to differ^^.

AM destroyed everything except an small part, the people of an infinite amoun t of universe were erased, now there are 52 back but the rest of infinity stays destroyed. So yes this happened.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
No you are not, you have to differ^^.

AM destroyed everything except an small part, the people of an infinite amoun t of universe were erased, now there are 52 back but the rest of infinity stays destroyed. So yes this happened.
Well then everything happened. Joker did destroy everything. what is the proof? We are the proof. WE know it happened. The author, the writer knows what happened.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Well then everything happened. Joker did destroy everything. what is the proof? We are the proof. WE know it happened. The author, the writer knows what happened.

So, there are "events" that happen only for US, wihtout any consequence for the fictional characters and "events" that happen for US and THEM.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
So, there are "events" that happen only for US, wihtout any consequence for the fictional characters and "events" that happen for US and THEM. So it still happened, which mean what ever Joker did to the universe happened even though the character don't remember. Who remembers?The presence, Spectre, writers, and most important the readers.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
So it still happened, which mean what ever Joker did to the universe happened even though the character don't remember. Who remembers?The presence, Spectre, writers, and most important the readers.

Yes for us it happend, for them not. There was no need to punish the Joker as it was clear, all along, that nothing will happen in the end , maybe not for all of us, but for the Presence (= DC Writers).

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Yes for us it happend, for them not. There was no need to punish the Joker as it was clear, all along, that nothing will happen in the end , maybe not for all of us, but for the Presence (= DC Writers).
So it happened!

Originally posted by xJLxKing
So it happened!

Yes it happend

Satisfied?

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Yes it happend

Satisfied?
yes

Originally posted by I'm Bran
Because 'Prime' Spectre pretty much acts independently. And unless God is really pissed at him, that has nothing to do with his power. imo, it wouldn't make sense for those aspects to be acting totally independent from prime's will - yet still retain his authority. That's all I'm saying.

ROFLMAO @ xJLxKing and Batman-Prime argument

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
And after the Story of the Emperor Joker everything was exactly as before, like nothing happend... that means, nothing happend^^. Originally posted by xJLxKing
That's stupid. So nothing happened with Abraxas, Thanos with IG, HOTU, or other characters like that? It happened because we saw it and we read it. Originally posted by Batman-Prime
You say it, HOTU, nothing happend, because it was Marvel-Gods plan all along. It happend so that someone might get an insight.Originally posted by xJLxKing
Oh okay so nothing happened. I understand, so AM never happened, and Superman never happened. Nothing! Am I not correct? Originally posted by Batman-Prime
NSo yes this happened. Originally posted by xJLxKing
Well then everything happened. Joker did destroy everything. what is the proof? We are the proof. WE know it happened. The author, the writer knows what happened. Originally posted by Batman-Prime
So, there are "events" that happen only for US, wihtout any consequence for the fictional characters and "events" that happen for US and THEM. Originally posted by xJLxKing
So it still happened, which mean what ever Joker did to the universe happened even though the character don't remember. Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Yes for us it happend, for them not. There was no need to punish the Joker as it was clear, all along, that nothing will happen in the end Originally posted by xJLxKing
So it happened! Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Yes it happend ey guys whats happening?

Originally posted by Galan007
imo, it wouldn't make sense for those aspects to be acting totally independent from prime's will - yet still retain his authority. That's all I'm saying. *rebuttal*

This wasn't going anywhere anyway. I mean, reaching, no offense.

You guys all suck.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
ROFLMAO @ xJLxKing and Batman-Prime argument Best argument of the night

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
You guys all suck. Yeah, but Bran's really good at it. droolio

Ah, so you're more of an anal guy?

How's your clench?

Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
Ah, so you're more of an anal guy?

How's your clench? Anal? That's ghey, you homo. ermm

He said that the feat didn't happened because the characters don't remember it. I was life

Originally posted by xJLxKing
He said that the feat didn't happened because the characters don't remember it. I was life

No, I said, the feat happened but wasn't considered important enough to call gods wrath upon the joker (or giving the Spectre the power to defeat him) because in the end, there were no consequences to this feat, like it didn't happend at all .

Originally posted by Galan007
Anal? That's ghey, you homo. ermm Only if we look in the eyes.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, but Bran's really good at it. droolio

No need for that. Please refrain from making comments like that.

Stay on topic, please, everybody.

Sir, yes sir.

wosarmee51